If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Uproxx)   Plot hole gripers get to griping: Dark Knight Rises originally had way more Bane backstory   (uproxx.com) divider line 164
    More: Followup, TDKR, bane, goatse  
•       •       •

5468 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Aug 2012 at 4:08 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



164 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-08-09 01:11:43 PM
I can't imagine why it was cut. They could have used some more flashbacks to pad the run time.
 
2012-08-09 01:19:41 PM
Bane should be Brazilian and a luchaidor with venom that makes him strong. This movie's Bane was shiat.
 
2012-08-09 01:20:18 PM
The more I think about the movie, the more I love it. The problems with it have nothing to do with plot holes, though.
 
2012-08-09 01:24:23 PM

doglover: Bane should be Brazilian and a luchaidor with venom that makes him strong. This movie's Bane was shiat.


They colossally farked up Two-Face and most people didn't mind. Actually, none of the Rogue's Gallery in any of the Nolan films were true to their comic book counterparts (except maybe Catwoman). The difference being that The Joker and Ra's al Ghul were still cool without being faithful to the source material.
 
2012-08-09 01:42:55 PM
The extended cut of this movie is going to be farking 3 days long
 
2012-08-09 01:47:47 PM

SnakeLee: The extended cut of this movie is going to be farking 3 days long


Chris Nolan doesnt do that kind of stuff, I dont think.
 
2012-08-09 01:58:55 PM
And since Nolan doesn't include deleted scenes in his Blu-Ray/DVDs, we'll never see that stuff.

At least, until the 20th anniversary holcube version comes out.

doglover: Bane should be Brazilian and a luchaidor with venom that makes him strong. This movie's Bane was shiat.


Presumably they changed that because they didn't want the film to look like a WCW match from 1998.
 
2012-08-09 02:30:25 PM
I read people like that dumb fark Harry Knowles complaining that Nolan completely screwed up what Batman or Bruce Wayne would have done. Yeah, well, tough shiat. These weren't laughable glitzy crap like the Schumacher films, and bizarre and fun yet completely stupid ones like Burton's. Nolan made his movies have much more of a tether to reality than most superhero stories.

I loved all three of the Nolan Batman films. The only problem I had with this one was Bane sounding like John Rhys-Davies doing a book-on-tape.
 
2012-08-09 02:32:22 PM
Gripers, no griping.

Gripers, no griping!

/oh man
 
2012-08-09 02:37:13 PM
I could gripe but I'd rather snark and say that for this movie, all of Batman's problems could have been solved by Iron Man in 5 minutes. (That's including travel time.)
 
2012-08-09 02:49:19 PM
Hmmm, I'm not sure how you'd give more of his back story without spoiling the plot twist.
 
2012-08-09 03:28:21 PM

Makh: I could gripe but I'd rather snark and say that for this movie, all of Batman's problems could have been solved by Iron Man in 5 minutes. (That's including travel time.)


Yeah, but Bruce Wayne doesn't have any superpowers the way Iron Man does.
 
2012-08-09 03:29:28 PM

Karac: Makh: I could gripe but I'd rather snark and say that for this movie, all of Batman's problems could have been solved by Iron Man in 5 minutes. (That's including travel time.)

Yeah, but Bruce Wayne doesn't have any superpowers the way Iron Man does.


i dunno, he's got that magic rope that fixes backs. that's something.
 
2012-08-09 03:32:44 PM

Mugato: doglover: Bane should be Brazilian and a luchaidor with venom that makes him strong. This movie's Bane was shiat.

They colossally farked up Two-Face and most people didn't mind. Actually, none of the Rogue's Gallery in any of the Nolan films were true to their comic book counterparts (except maybe Catwoman). The difference being that The Joker and Ra's al Ghul were still cool without being faithful to the source material.


Nolan got the spirit of the characters right. His Scarecrow brought out the scientific side of the character. The Joker was literally a force of nature...both funny and scary at the same time. Two Face was really tragic figure pushed beyond the edge.

I thought Bane, Talia and Ras were done BETTER in the Nolan movies than the comics. Ras being a "James Bond" type villain never suited me for a hero that was more about crime. The twist of Ras being a head of an organization that fought crime in the worse way possible. I always thought Talia was lame. A writers conceit that their female character is the "love" of a continuing characters life. The fact that she was a vengeful daughter made her a much better character.

Bane literally was the man who took up Ras offer that Bruce rejected. It's an aspect of the character that the comic had overlooked for a while. His creator wanted Bane to be a villain who learned from his mistakes.

Catwoman was actually pitch perfect

But in the end-these characters were adapted to the story Nolan was telling..and it was done beautifully. A hell of a lot better than the more "comic-book" accurate Burton movies. Joker was just Jack being Jack. The penguin was an atrocity. Catwoman totally stupid.
 
2012-08-09 03:34:32 PM

thomps: Karac: Makh: I could gripe but I'd rather snark and say that for this movie, all of Batman's problems could have been solved by Iron Man in 5 minutes. (That's including travel time.)

Yeah, but Bruce Wayne doesn't have any superpowers the way Iron Man does.

i dunno, he's got that magic rope that fixes backs. that's something.


OK, so Batman has a magical chiropractor. Iron Man has the superpower of a comic book sized bank account. He could have just paid the prisoners to lift him out of that hole like a cheerleader at the top of a pyramid.
 
2012-08-09 03:35:57 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: And since Nolan doesn't include deleted scenes in his Blu-Ray/DVDs, we'll never see that stuff.

At least, until the 20th anniversary holcube version comes out.

doglover: Bane should be Brazilian and a luchaidor with venom that makes him strong. This movie's Bane was shiat.

Presumably they changed that because they didn't want the film to look like a WCW match from 1998.


Actually, I think it's because Nolan really didn't have a lot of deleted scenes. He shoots a tight script...I think this time, he might have realized that he went a bit too far and had to edit.
 
2012-08-09 03:37:37 PM

DamnYankees: The more I think about the movie, the more I love it. The problems with it have nothing to do with plot holes, though.


I went and did a second viewing a few days ago on IMAX and it was a lot better the second time. Wasn't perfect but the good far outweighed the bad.

I'm kinda glad they limited Bane's backstory. One thing I loved about TDK was no Joker origin. He just shows up and causes chaos. But I thought Bane was a great villian so ehh. I'll watch this footage on the deleted scenes.
 
2012-08-09 03:39:24 PM

Karac: thomps: Karac: Makh: I could gripe but I'd rather snark and say that for this movie, all of Batman's problems could have been solved by Iron Man in 5 minutes. (That's including travel time.)

Yeah, but Bruce Wayne doesn't have any superpowers the way Iron Man does.

i dunno, he's got that magic rope that fixes backs. that's something.

OK, so Batman has a magical chiropractor. Iron Man has the superpower of a comic book sized bank account. He could have just paid the prisoners to lift him out of that hole like a cheerleader at the top of a pyramid.


so that stock exchange break-in that bankrupted bruce wayne thing was the most annoying part of that movie to me. why would they not back out every transaction that happened while they were hacked into the exchange network? didn't they do that a few years ago after that "fat finger" flash crash?
 
2012-08-09 03:44:57 PM

Karac: Yeah, but Bruce Wayne doesn't have any superpowers the way Iron Man does.


Just like Tony Stark doesn't have any superpowers (or magical flying devices) the way Batman does. :P
 
2012-08-09 03:45:18 PM

Mugato: Actually, none of the Rogue's Gallery in any of the Nolan films were true to their comic book counterparts (except maybe Catwoman).


Scarecrow was close enough.
 
2012-08-09 03:48:11 PM
Would it have explained why he sounded like Deckard Cain? Because that would have been helpful to know.
 
2012-08-09 03:54:27 PM
Lucius Fox: "Autopilot. I said, BRUCE, THE AUTOPILOT. Let's talk more about the autopilot and how that doesn't work even though it's completely irrelevant at the moment. BRUCE! Are you listening? I'm FORESHADOWING here! Not even the most oblivious audience member could possibly miss this, for when we do the fake death later..." [turns to camera] "Or could they?"
 
2012-08-09 04:17:44 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Lucius Fox: "Autopilot. I said, BRUCE, THE AUTOPILOT. Let's talk more about the autopilot and how that doesn't work even though it's completely irrelevant at the moment. BRUCE! Are you listening? I'm FORESHADOWING here! Not even the most oblivious audience member could possibly miss this, for when we do the fake death later..." [turns to camera] "Or could they?"


Ha!
 
2012-08-09 04:18:20 PM
I was surprised it had more plot holes and suspension of disbelief moments than Prometheus.
 
2012-08-09 04:19:33 PM

DamnYankees: SnakeLee: The extended cut of this movie is going to be farking 3 days long

Chris Nolan doesnt do that kind of stuff, I dont think.


Yeah, he's not Peter Jackson.
 
2012-08-09 04:20:39 PM

Kome: Would it have explained why he sounded like Deckard Cain Goldmember? Because that would have been helpful to know.


FTFY

Darth_Lukecash: Catwoman was actually pitch perfect.


Like The Brown Note.

Catwoman added nothing to this story other than being Anne Hathaway in a tight bodysuit.

<SPOILER>
And to be Batman's redemption, but she was so totally half-assing the "criminal" part of being Catwoman (you know, what with the laserlike focus on wiping out her history) that she seems more like one of the cops trapped under the city than an integral part of the story. Her purpose was to validate Bruce's desire to not be Batman any more.
</SPOILER>
 
2012-08-09 04:23:00 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Lucius Fox: "Autopilot. I said, BRUCE, THE AUTOPILOT. Let's talk more about the autopilot and how that doesn't work even though it's completely irrelevant at the moment. BRUCE! Are you listening? I'm FORESHADOWING here! Not even the most oblivious audience member could possibly miss this, for when we do the fake death later..." [turns to camera] "Or could they?"


Haha, it wasn't that bad, was it? The second mention was a bit unnecessary though. (did it get mentioned more than twice before the thing at the end with the technician?) Actually now that you mention it, the whole "less busy mind" thing or whatever Fox says was probably a bit much too.

That part and the first mention of the cafe thing both stood out to me as forestadowy, but more just like a "hmmmmm, meta" than it bothering me.

Anyway, I enjoyed that movie a lot. I think my expectations were pretty low from hearing people semi-rag on it a bit before seeing it. So, thanks Fark!
 
2012-08-09 04:24:44 PM

alwaysjaded: One thing I loved about TDK was no Joker origin. He just shows up and causes chaos.


I remember being really annoyed when the Joker was explaining his backstory and how it was the same old hackneyed "my daddy beat me" justification. It was such a shallow copout for a badguy to just blame it all on bad parenting. Then, a bit later, when he was explaining his backstory and it was totally different, I was grinning like an idiot because it was just the right touch.
 
2012-08-09 04:24:59 PM
Here's the thing I don't get about Bane:

If he's a denizen of that decrepid hole-in-the-ground prison, which is apparently in some mysterious Asian location, why does he sound like he's doing a bad Sean Connery impersonation?
 
2012-08-09 04:27:32 PM

cgraves67: Here's the thing I don't get about Bane:

If he's a denizen of that decrepid hole-in-the-ground prison, which is apparently in some mysterious Asian location, why does he sound like he's doing a bad Sean Connery impersonation?


Maybe he was actually trying for an Egyptian accent?

/too obscure?
 
2012-08-09 04:27:37 PM

cgraves67: Here's the thing I don't get about Bane:

If he's a denizen of that decrepid hole-in-the-ground prison, which is apparently in some mysterious Asian location, why does he sound like he's doing a bad Sean Connery impersonation?


The same reason maybe that Bruce Wayne had an American accent? Not from there?
 
2012-08-09 04:29:41 PM

doglover: Bane should be Brazilian and a luchaidor with venom that makes him strong. This movie's Bane was shiat.


I didn't know Schumacher was on FARK. Hi, Joel!
 
2012-08-09 04:29:42 PM

Abner Doon: That part and the first mention of the cafe thing both stood out to me as forestadowy, but more just like a "hmmmmm, meta" than it bothering me.


Alfred's "fantasy" would have been better expressed as a more general idea of encountering Bruce in some unspecified location within Italy (or even Europe in general) than encountering Bruce in a specific cafe.
 
2012-08-09 04:31:10 PM

Karac: cgraves67: Here's the thing I don't get about Bane:

If he's a denizen of that decrepid hole-in-the-ground prison, which is apparently in some mysterious Asian location, why does he sound like he's doing a bad Sean Connery impersonation?

Maybe he was actually trying for an Egyptian accent?

/too obscure?


Input from a Spanish peacock is not needed here.
 
2012-08-09 04:32:53 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Nolan got the spirit of the characters right. His Scarecrow brought out the scientific side of the character. The Joker was literally a force of nature...both funny and scary at the same time. Two Face was really tragic figure pushed beyond the edge.


Two Face was supposed to be a guy with two separate personalities, a crime lord and a righteous DA, which personality he adopted depended on the flip of a coin. In both Batman Forever and The Dark Knight, he was just a psycho who asked the coin whether or not he had permission to kill people. Batman Forever was irredeemable but in TDK they missed and opportunity for a genuinely interesting character study-thingie and could have been better.

tallguywithglasseson: Lucius Fox: "Autopilot. I said, BRUCE, THE AUTOPILOT. Let's talk more about the autopilot and how that doesn't work even though it's completely irrelevant at the moment. BRUCE! Are you listening? I'm FORESHADOWING here! Not even the most oblivious audience member could possibly miss this, for when we do the fake death later..." [turns to camera] "Or could they?"



That was admittedly a bit lame. The Bruce Wayne in the Nolanverse is frankly a moron. He's not a scientist. He's not the world's greatest detective. He turns to Lucious to implement the complex "motorcycle helmet " technology so that he can turn his head in the batsuit. But he can figure out the autopilot in the Bat that stumped Lucious.

Yeah, there are a lot of contrivances in the film and I'm probably giving people who get paid ridiculous amounts of money to write this shiat an undue pass but the overall film worked for me, despite the glitches in the script that shouldn't be there.
 
2012-08-09 04:36:45 PM

sprawl15: alwaysjaded: One thing I loved about TDK was no Joker origin. He just shows up and causes chaos.

I remember being really annoyed when the Joker was explaining his backstory and how it was the same old hackneyed "my daddy beat me" justification. It was such a shallow copout for a badguy to just blame it all on bad parenting. Then, a bit later, when he was explaining his backstory and it was totally different, I was grinning like an idiot because it was just the right touch.


That's when I knew he was truly insane, and in a dangerously functional way. I was like:

"Wait that isn't the same sto... oh god."
 
2012-08-09 04:39:12 PM

Mugato: Two Face was supposed to be a guy with two separate personalities, a crime lord and a righteous DA, which personality he adopted depended on the flip of a coin. In both Batman Forever and The Dark Knight, he was just a psycho who asked the coin whether or not he had permission to kill people. Batman Forever was irredeemable but in TDK they missed and opportunity for a genuinely interesting character study-thingie and could have been better.


Two-Face in The Dark Knight was portrayed as a character with fundamentally opposed personality traits, rather than two fundamentally opposed personalities. It was a variation upon the comic-book character.

Two-Face in Batman Forever was a goofy variant of the Joker with a coin-flipping gimmick who upon at least one occasion had to be reminded of his reliance upon that gimmick. It was only superficially similar to the comic-book character.
 
2012-08-09 04:40:17 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Lucius Fox: "Autopilot. I said, BRUCE, THE AUTOPILOT. Let's talk more about the autopilot and how that doesn't work even though it's completely irrelevant at the moment. BRUCE! Are you listening? I'm FORESHADOWING here! Not even the most oblivious audience member could possibly miss this, for when we do the fake death later..." [turns to camera] "Or could they?"


Yea, they were very heavy on the foreshadowing. But then again everyone expected batman to buy the farm in this one. A slight change to the Cafe scene and his fate would have only been implied.
Maybe they wanted to end it on a mystery and then backed out at the last moment.

Its the Catch 22 of trying to appease the new audience and the fans at the same time. I think Nolan took alot of old characters and added just enough of a fresh twist to keep it exciting and watchable.
For a summer blockbuster I thought they did a pretty good job.

I mean, the old Bane was strong but not strong enough to bring ruination to Gotham.
This new Bane, he kind of grows on you.
 
2012-08-09 04:42:19 PM
I love how righteous and pretentious people are about Nolan's trilogy.

Is it the best ever? No.

Is it entertaining? Yes.

/Can't wait to see what he does with Superman.
 
2012-08-09 04:44:43 PM

BafflerMeal: cgraves67: Here's the thing I don't get about Bane:

If he's a denizen of that decrepid hole-in-the-ground prison, which is apparently in some mysterious Asian location, why does he sound like he's doing a bad Sean Connery impersonation?

The same reason maybe that Bruce Wayne had an American accent? Not from there?


That's true, but BW was thrown in after it became the dumping ground for Ra's Al-ghul (and later Bane), while Bane had been thrown in there when it was the prison of that nameless warlord. It makes sense that there would be westerners in a prison run by an international terror group, but less likely for a local warlord.
 
2012-08-09 04:46:51 PM

Mugato: But he can figure out the autopilot in the Bat that stumped Lucious.


He spent his time as a recluse becoming an l33t h4x0r. They cut the montage where he sneaks off to MIT and learns under the cruel tutelage of RMS.
 
2012-08-09 04:46:55 PM

Dimensio: Two-Face in The Dark Knight was portrayed as a character with fundamentally opposed personality traits, rather than two fundamentally opposed personalities. It was a variation upon the comic-book character.


But then shouldn't he have tried to bring the people who survived his coin toss to justice if he wasn't allowed to kill them? And isn't flipping again for the guy's driver cheating? I dunno, I thought TDK was a great film but the Two Face thing felt tacked on and nonsensical.

Bane though, I thought was a pretty good villain even if he wasn't close to the books.

Although I still don't understand the mechanics of the pit and why there had to be a jump involved in climbing out.
 
2012-08-09 04:52:49 PM

cgraves67: Here's the thing I don't get about Bane:

If he's a denizen of that decrepid hole-in-the-ground prison, which is apparently in some mysterious Asian location, why does he sound like he's doing a bad Sean Connery impersonation?


[possible spoilers]

I dug the voice. Creepy old man voice on a younger big bad guy. Up until they made him into the trivial henchman with the reveal. The joker was a mostly indomitable intellect, the consumate arch enemy for Batman, and so was Bane in a more brute force way with his militia(but still fugging smart) and physical stature, until M Night Shamalan styled twist that robbed him of all coolness. The creepy, wise but humored, old man voice lost all the points it had garnered, and then he...got shot. Not just anti-climactic, but a huge kick in the balls.
 
2012-08-09 04:53:58 PM

Mugato: Dimensio: Two-Face in The Dark Knight was portrayed as a character with fundamentally opposed personality traits, rather than two fundamentally opposed personalities. It was a variation upon the comic-book character.

But then shouldn't he have tried to bring the people who survived his coin toss to justice if he wasn't allowed to kill them? And isn't flipping again for the guy's driver cheating? I dunno, I thought TDK was a great film but the Two Face thing felt tacked on and nonsensical.

Bane though, I thought was a pretty good villain even if he wasn't close to the books.

Although I still don't understand the mechanics of the pit and why there had to be a jump involved in climbing out.


seems like you could have climbed around it or above it...
 
2012-08-09 04:54:44 PM

omeganuepsilon: I dug the voice. Creepy old man voice on a younger big bad guy. Up until they made him into the trivial henchman with the reveal.


Revealing Bane's accomplice did not demonstrate Bane himself to be a "trivial henchman". He was, at the very least, the second-in-command and he may have been a more-or-less equal collaborator.
 
2012-08-09 04:54:52 PM
SPOILERS

I gotta admit, I couldn't feel anything for Bane. I couldn't get what his motivation was. Okay, if he was in the League of Shadows and wanted to destroy Gotham, why didn't he just, you know, destroy Gotham? They could've set that bomb off at any time and their mission would've been accomplished. Why wait the extra months where they just let Gotham go to hell? And I feel like the reasoning behind Bane's mask was pretty silly (and also that when it was disconnected he just kinda laid there - I would've expected screaming or something).

To be honest, I always thought the League of Shadows storyline was silly to begin with. The Dark Knight was so good in part because the Joker was a believable villain.
 
2012-08-09 04:55:46 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Mugato: But he can figure out the autopilot in the Bat that stumped Lucious.

He spent his time as a recluse becoming an l33t h4x0r. They cut the montage where he sneaks off to MIT and learns under the cruel tutelage of RMS.


Or he could have subbed it out to a firm that had no clue what they were looking at other than faulty code.
 
2012-08-09 04:57:39 PM

omeganuepsilon: cgraves67: Here's the thing I don't get about Bane:

If he's a denizen of that decrepid hole-in-the-ground prison, which is apparently in some mysterious Asian location, why does he sound like he's doing a bad Sean Connery impersonation?

[possible spoilers]

I dug the voice. Creepy old man voice on a younger big bad guy. Up until they made him into the trivial henchman with the reveal. The joker was a mostly indomitable intellect, the consumate arch enemy for Batman, and so was Bane in a more brute force way with his militia(but still fugging smart) and physical stature, until M Night Shamalan styled twist that robbed him of all coolness. The creepy, wise but humored, old man voice lost all the points it had garnered, and then he...got shot. Not just anti-climactic, but a huge kick in the balls.


Yep. Pretty much this. If Bane had actually practiced what he preached - if he had been an anarchist trying to return Gotham to its people, but really just in it for the power trip or to totally bring down the system, that would have been awesome. They even played up that angle, when Bane was told he had been paid a small fortune, he says "and why would that give you any power over me?"

But instead it meant nothing. In the end, he was just a big guy who happened to wear a mask. His actions were meaningless.

Tying the movie back to the first one was a mistake, in my opinion.
 
2012-08-09 04:59:24 PM
Everyone keeps saying they nailed catwoman(I know I'd like to HEY-OOOOOO) but wtf with the end? She found her dream man and just gave up her life of crime and questionably dumped girls?
 
2012-08-09 05:01:24 PM

Lord Dimwit: "and why would that give you any power over me?"


I think the line was "do you really feel like you're in control"

Yeah his motivations were weak sauce but I still really liked him and thought he inspired fear.
 
Displayed 50 of 164 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report