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(Talking Points Memo)   Just how likely is it that Mitt Rmoney didn't pay his taxes?   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 151
    More: Interesting, Mitt Romney, Roth IRAs, interest income, debt limit, local taxes, taxpayers  
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4053 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Aug 2012 at 12:06 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-09 11:21:12 AM
It's about as likely as sand in your vagina.
 
2012-08-09 11:27:41 AM
Seems much more likely that Romney availed himself of the 2009 IRS Swiss Bank account amnesty centered on UBS, with the account he had with them that he closed in 2010 being one of the 3000+ accounts which were unreported to the IRS, rather than one of the 100 or so that had previously been regularly reported.

He's probably not hiding an embarrassingly low tax rate. He probably is hiding that he's an unindicted felony tax cheater.

Of course, conservatives will likely note President Obama was never indicted for his felony drug use. Good luck with that angle of spin....
 
2012-08-09 12:07:56 PM
I say its a combination of "charitable" donations and tax harvesting
 
2012-08-09 12:09:27 PM
If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.
 
2012-08-09 12:09:46 PM
Not very.

It will show exactly how he made his money, and who he has given money to, and how he squirrels it away, and where. That is something that he really doesn't want coming out. Especially after the "money=speech" line that the Rabid Right has been going on about.

Romney is afraid that people will actually listen to what he's really been "saying" after all these years...
 
2012-08-09 12:10:35 PM
Pretty unlikely.
 
2012-08-09 12:10:43 PM
Romney could easily make all the speculation go away.
 
2012-08-09 12:11:00 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


Looks reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally bad though
 
2012-08-09 12:11:42 PM
The are to different points here :

1. Did Mitt Romney meet his legal tax obligations ?

2. Did Mitt Romney meet his moral tax obligations ?

If Mitt could legally pay 1000$ per year and meet his legal tax obligations, and did, then this is a great starting place for a conversation about how the tax code empowers the very wealthy to disconnect themselves from the society that enables their continues success.
 
2012-08-09 12:12:12 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


People like him created the tax system, which directly benefits themselves. It isn't the wealth that angers people. It is the rule writing after the power is gained that angers people.
 
2012-08-09 12:12:22 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


Ethical much?
 
2012-08-09 12:12:24 PM
Someone needs to get these returns. Where's Anonymous when you need them?
 
2012-08-09 12:13:48 PM

abb3w: Seems much more likely that Romney availed himself of the 2009 IRS Swiss Bank account amnesty centered on UBS, with the account he had with them that he closed in 2010 being one of the 3000+ accounts which were unreported to the IRS, rather than one of the 100 or so that had previously been regularly reported.

He's probably not hiding an embarrassingly low tax rate. He probably is hiding that he's an unindicted felony tax cheater.

Of course, conservatives will likely note President Obama was never indicted for his felony drug use. Good luck with that angle of spin....


I doubt he's done anything illegal, but he's surely used every means at his disposal to obtain the lowest possible tax rate. A friend of mine also suggested that he may not want to make public how much he's given to the Mormon church as this would annoy evangelical Republicans.
 
2012-08-09 12:14:03 PM
I don't know about the last 10 years or whatever, but considering that he most likely lost on investments in 2008-09 thanks to the economy, I'm guessing that by those carrying those losses forward, combined with some fancy tax harvesting, Romney very likely paid 0% tax, at least for that year or two.
 
2012-08-09 12:14:13 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


No, but he's fighting tooth and nails to keep it.
 
2012-08-09 12:14:25 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


So then he should just release the returns, right? Or perhaps (sarcasm) the true fear here is that Romney knows that the average American has higher ethical standards than that? Just because something is technically legal doesn't make it just.
 
2012-08-09 12:14:39 PM

blahpers: Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.

Ethical much?


What's unethical about obeying the tax laws? Mitt Romney didn't prepare his tax returns, he hired professionals and he paid what they said he owed, if anything.
 
2012-08-09 12:16:45 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: blahpers: Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.

Ethical much?

What's unethical about obeying the tax laws? Mitt Romney didn't prepare his tax returns, he hired professionals and he paid what they said he owed, if anything.


img850.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-09 12:17:16 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


But that would totally destroy the talking point that job creators - and Rmoney is the perfect poster child for job creator - are taked too much.

I've read estimates that 1%ers have been hiding between 11-22 trillion dollars in offshore accounts in order to avoid taxes. Even if you take half of the lowest estimate, it kills the main talking point on economics for the GOP.

That is what's at stake here with the tax returns in my opinion, not necessarily the legality of his tax returns.
 
2012-08-09 12:18:06 PM

rubi_con_man: 2. Did Mitt Romney meet his moral tax obligations ?


There is no such thing.


Most likely he used tax shelters that may have been questionable, or maybe even since declared illegal.

We know he used tax havens to hide money, but that is illegal. If you earn income on money, it doesn't matter where it is--you owe US taxes on it.
 
2012-08-09 12:18:25 PM

ddam: Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.

But that would totally destroy the talking point that job creators - and Rmoney is the perfect poster child for job creator - are takedtaxed too much.

I've read estimates that 1%ers have been hiding between 11-22 trillion dollars in offshore accounts in order to avoid taxes. Even if you take half of the lowest estimate, it kills the main talking point on economics for the GOP.

That is what's at stake here with the tax returns in my opinion, not necessarily the legality of his tax returns.



FTFM
 
2012-08-09 12:18:34 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


And if you want elect someone whose greatest accomplishment is gaming the system, that's a great argument.
 
2012-08-09 12:18:43 PM
This is about as logical as the birth certificate crap. No matter what is shown on his returns do you honestly think one Romney supporter is going to switch their vote? As for the undecided voters, they won't care about this. Nobody cares about this who isn't already upset that he's rich.
 
2012-08-09 12:18:44 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


Exactly. Think how many votes he'd get from the admiring public if he would just release his tax returns.

It's too bad Obama's actions have forced him to keep those secret. CURSE YOU FARTBONGO
 
2012-08-09 12:19:14 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: blahpers: Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.

Ethical much?

What's unethical about obeying the tax laws? Mitt Romney didn't prepare his tax returns, he hired professionals and he paid what they said he owed, if anything.


I'm right with you buddy! Hey, Romney, you did nothing wrong! Maybe you pay a lower percentage in federal income taxes than some average American, and maybe not. It doesn't matter! It was all legal, you played by the book, stop being a pussy and release your returns, like your father did, like Obama did, and show everyone what a law-abiding guy you are. It can only help you. Dooo iiiit!
 
2012-08-09 12:19:48 PM

impaler: It's about as likely as sand centipedes in your vagina.


t2.gstatic.com
 
2012-08-09 12:19:54 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.


I agree 110%. But then WHY does he HATE the American people? Don't we ALL want to save on our taxes legally? Isn't he running for the position of "leader of the American people"? Isn't his entire resume based upon what a successful businessman he is?

Then - wouldn't it make SENSE to release the tax returns in order to teach and inspire the rest of us to attempt to be a successful as he has been? Why deny us his wisdom?
 
2012-08-09 12:20:23 PM

Prank Monkey: No matter what is shown on his returns do you honestly think one Romney supporter is going to switch their vote?


Well, yeah, if Romney withdraws or gets indicted I think they have to vote for someone else.
 
2012-08-09 12:20:26 PM
Perhaps they shouldn't have beaten the "47% of people have no skin in the game" talking point into the ground until after they knew their Rominee wasnt part of that group.
 
2012-08-09 12:20:39 PM
I dunno. Does he have the kind of disposable income that a multi-millionaire tax cheat of 10+ years would have where he'd do something rather outlandish, extravagant, and stupid, like make a large bet?


caucuses.desmoinesregister.com
 
2012-08-09 12:21:10 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: What's unethical about obeying the tax laws? Mitt Romney didn't prepare his tax returns, he hired professionals and he paid what they said he owed, if anything.


THERE IS NOTHING THAT IS LEGAL THAT IS UNETHICAL. WHY ARE YOU LIBS SO DENSE?
 
2012-08-09 12:22:34 PM

abb3w: Of course, conservatives will likely note President Obama was never indicted for his felony drug use


Holy shiat! Which state has managed to escalate possession from a misdemeanor to a felony?
 
2012-08-09 12:22:40 PM

Prank Monkey: This is about as logical as the birth certificate crap. No matter what is shown on his returns do you honestly think one Romney supporter is going to switch their vote? As for the undecided voters, they won't care about this. Nobody cares about this who isn't already upset that he's rich.


Well, except that the birth certificate was something that was never demanded of a Presidential candidate before, and the tax returns are something that has been released by every single presidential candidate since Romney's father. But nice try at the BSABSVR.

And the problem isn't that Romney's rich. As so many others have pointed out, Obama is also quite wealthy. You'd think the fact that Obama is at least well-liked, while Romney is seen as out-of-touch at best, would tell you something.
 
2012-08-09 12:22:43 PM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.



Unless you later wish to run for public office, where people make nebulous decisions about the ethics and morals of a candidate.

It's not illegal to be a stripper. It is, however, unwise if want to later run for president.
 
2012-08-09 12:23:09 PM

Prank Monkey: This is about as logical as the birth certificate crap. No matter what is shown on his returns do you honestly think one Romney supporter is going to switch their vote? As for the undecided voters, they won't care about this. Nobody cares about this who isn't already upset that he's rich.


That's bullshiat and you know it. Destroying the "job creator" talking point that the GOP has made the cornerstone of their economic plan for the past 40 years by using Rmoney's own tax record as proof would influence a lot of undecided voters (if there are many left after the past 4 years of division).
 
2012-08-09 12:23:20 PM

Skleenar: THERE IS NOTHING THAT IS LEGAL THAT IS UNETHICAL


Abortion? Extra marital affairs?

/take that, stupid Republican
 
2012-08-09 12:23:54 PM

Prank Monkey: No matter what is shown on his returns do you honestly think one Romney supporter is going to switch their vote?


"No matter what is shown" is pretty farking broad. If it shows he donated millions to Planned Parenthood it would likely lose him at least one vote.
 
2012-08-09 12:23:56 PM

ddam: Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.

But that would totally destroy the talking point that job creators - and Rmoney is the perfect poster child for job creator - are taked too much.

I've read estimates that 1%ers have been hiding between 11-22 trillion dollars in offshore accounts in order to avoid taxes. Even if you take half of the lowest estimate, it kills the main talking point on economics for the GOP.

That is what's at stake here with the tax returns in my opinion, not necessarily the legality of his tax returns.


Exactly - it's actually a more powerful argument if Romney followed the law.... It highlights how rigged the game is.
 
2012-08-09 12:24:39 PM

ddam: Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.

But that would totally destroy the talking point that job creators - and Rmoney is the perfect poster child for job creator - are taked too much.

I've read estimates that 1%ers have been hiding between 11-22 trillion dollars in offshore accounts in order to avoid taxes. Even if you take half of the lowest estimate, it kills the main talking point on economics for the GOP.

That is what's at stake here with the tax returns in my opinion, not necessarily the legality of his tax returns.


THI$
 
2012-08-09 12:25:11 PM
There's a big difference between "didn't pay his taxes" and "paid no taxes."
 
2012-08-09 12:25:12 PM

Prank Monkey: This is about as logical as the birth certificate crap. No matter what is shown on his returns do you honestly think one Romney supporter is going to switch their vote? As for the undecided voters, they won't care about this. Nobody cares about this who isn't already upset that he's rich.

Fifty-six percent of Americans think Mitt Romney should release his tax returns from the last 12 years while 34 percent think he should not, according to a new poll from Public Policy Polling. Among Independent voters, 61 percent want Romney to release his returns, while just 27 percent say he shouldn't.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-romney-tax-return-release-rate-oba ma-election-poll-2012-7#ixzz234CMfKO4


I suppose when the guy interviewing you for a job says, "I'd really like to see some references," you can try and say, "You really don't need to see my references." But, I don't think it would be a good idea.
 
2012-08-09 12:25:48 PM

Prank Monkey: This is about as logical as the birth certificate crap. No matter what is shown on his returns do you honestly think one Romney supporter is going to switch their vote? As for the undecided voters, they won't care about this. Nobody cares about this who isn't already upset that he's rich.


If this were true then Romney is a blithering idiot for withholding his returns. He's getting beat up for no reason. Why would you want someone so dumb in charge on anything?
 
2012-08-09 12:26:07 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Where's Anonymous when you need them?


Masturbating to furry porn and capslocking the N word.
 
2012-08-09 12:26:44 PM

Lou Brown: There's a big difference between "didn't pay his taxes" and "paid no taxes."


Why don't you try doing one or the other, and using that defense when the IRS attaches your bank accounts and garnishes your wages.
 
2012-08-09 12:27:17 PM

bujin: Exactly - it's actually a more powerful argument if Romney followed the law.... It highlights how rigged the game is.


This.

Nothing is going to bring the guillotines back faster than the public finally getting that fact through their heads.
 
2012-08-09 12:27:38 PM
Guilty until proven innocent.
 
2012-08-09 12:27:41 PM

arethereanybeernamesleft: rubi_con_man: 2. Did Mitt Romney meet his moral tax obligations ?

There is no such thing.


Most likely he used tax shelters that may have been questionable, or maybe even since declared illegal.

We know he used tax havens to hide money, but that is illegal. If you earn income on money, it doesn't matter where it is--you owe US taxes on it.


Fun news: Romney wants to change that. In his proposals pamphlet he talks about Territory taxation, in which you are only taxed by the country in which you do business. So if Nike opens a plant in Nicaragua, not one penny of their profits from that plant come back to the US. Apparently, the Job Creators have been yolked to the country they were born in for far too long, and we have to unleash their true potential by ending this senseless penalization of creativity and innovation. Or something.

For some reason, he thinks this is a good idea. I don't get it either. I thought we were gonna try and *discourage* outsourcing... but I guess that's dumb.
 
2012-08-09 12:28:22 PM

arethereanybeernamesleft: Skleenar: THERE IS NOTHING THAT IS LEGAL THAT IS UNETHICAL

Abortion? Extra marital affairs?

/take that, stupid Republican


WELL THOSE SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. AND FURRIES.
 
2012-08-09 12:29:17 PM

ddam: Cat Food Sandwiches: If he obeyed all the laws and had a zero tax rate, more power to him. He didn't create the system.

But that would totally destroy the talking point that job creators - and Rmoney is the perfect poster child for job creator - are taked too much.

I've read estimates that 1%ers have been hiding between 11-22 trillion dollars in offshore accounts in order to avoid taxes. Even if you take half of the lowest estimate, it kills the main talking point on economics for the GOP.

That is what's at stake here with the tax returns in my opinion, not necessarily the legality of his tax returns.


You should stop reading.the rantings of retards. 11 trillion? God you are stupid.

The "moral" question others are bringing up is even more hilarious considering the effective tax rate for half the country is under 6%
 
2012-08-09 12:29:42 PM
I doubt he did anything illegal and "ethical" would be up for debate but he KNOWS something in there is political poison, so bad that secrecy and speculation is preferable. We already know about the offshore stuff so I'm guessing some embarrassingly small amount paid, something Obama can bash him into oblivion with.

Most likely, zero.

R0mney
 
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