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(Foobies)   What the Stasi butler saw - East German commies were not only hypocrites, they had terrible table manners too. Hang on - the commies had BUTLERS????   (thelocal.de) divider line 53
    More: Ironic, Stasi, East Germany, West Berlin, West Germany, education minister, hypocrites, tables, state visit  
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4152 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Aug 2012 at 11:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-09 06:15:56 AM  
If the worst thing the leaders of the East German government ever did was to drink fresh lemon juice and eat bratwurst with their mouth open, the world would be a much better place.
 
2012-08-09 07:27:52 AM  
There was nothing truly Communist about the USSR or the Warsaw Pact. It was fascism, nothing else.
 
2012-08-09 08:31:36 AM  

GAT_00: There was nothing truly Communist about the USSR or the Warsaw Pact. It was fascism, nothing else.


I think you are confusing economic systems (communism) with political ones (fascism). You can have a communist economy under a democratic form of government (in theory), or under a totalitarian one.

The whole canard of "it's never been tried!" is wrong, because it *WAS* tried, many times, and every single farkin' time it was tried, it was immediately hijacked by totalitarian assholes and large numbers of people died.

Given the history of the attempts made to establish communism over the last 100 years, and their universal failure to provide what communism promises, sometimes egregiously, and the fact that it appears that the only way to even come close to implementing it at the state level seems to be through totalitarian measures and egregious violations of human rights, can we just say "Hey, it's dead. It only works for ants and bees"?

Marx was an *IDIOT* who didn't understand what motivates people. Some people will always strive to have more than their neighbors, and those people will fark up a system like communism in short order. It's inevitable. The only way to avoid that is to have the ability to exclude people like that, which you can do at the commune level, but not at the state level. Sure, you can murder a bunch of them to try and avoid that, but some will work within the existing political structure to gather more wealth and power for themselves. Even if that wealth and power they gather in theory belongs to the state, they maintain control over it, so in reality, it is "theirs". Before you even come close to approaching theoretical communism, you will have spiraled down to an inequitable society just as stark as in any society ruled by robber barons. In all likelyhood, it will be worse: Robber barons didn't conduct purges or have entire gulags devoted pretty much to killing off their opposition, because despite their power, they still had to answer to the state. Under communism, the robber barons *ARE* the state.
 
2012-08-09 08:37:07 AM  

dittybopper: GAT_00: There was nothing truly Communist about the USSR or the Warsaw Pact. It was fascism, nothing else.

I think you are confusing economic systems (communism) with political ones (fascism). You can have a communist economy under a democratic form of government (in theory), or under a totalitarian one.

The whole canard of "it's never been tried!" is wrong, because it *WAS* tried, many times, and every single farkin' time it was tried, it was immediately hijacked by totalitarian assholes and large numbers of people died.

Given the history of the attempts made to establish communism over the last 100 years, and their universal failure to provide what communism promises, sometimes egregiously, and the fact that it appears that the only way to even come close to implementing it at the state level seems to be through totalitarian measures and egregious violations of human rights, can we just say "Hey, it's dead. It only works for ants and bees"?

Marx was an *IDIOT* who didn't understand what motivates people. Some people will always strive to have more than their neighbors, and those people will fark up a system like communism in short order. It's inevitable. The only way to avoid that is to have the ability to exclude people like that, which you can do at the commune level, but not at the state level. Sure, you can murder a bunch of them to try and avoid that, but some will work within the existing political structure to gather more wealth and power for themselves. Even if that wealth and power they gather in theory belongs to the state, they maintain control over it, so in reality, it is "theirs". Before you even come close to approaching theoretical communism, you will have spiraled down to an inequitable society just as stark as in any society ruled by robber barons. In all likelyhood, it will be worse: Robber barons didn't conduct purges or have entire gulags devoted pretty much to killing off their opposition, because despite their power, they still had to answer to the state. Under communism, the robber barons *ARE* the state.


The very definition of Communism is no government. Just because it started as an attempt at Communism doesn't mean you can call the whole thing Communist.
 
2012-08-09 10:54:04 AM  
So Herzog drives his Trabant into Honecker´s car... but get this, he has no insurance. So the judge sentences gives Herzog the choice of either going a forced labor camp or to serve as Honecker´s butler.
 
2012-08-09 11:36:10 AM  

Hang on - the commies had BUTLERS????


No person should have two butlers until every person has one butler.
 
2012-08-09 11:38:53 AM  
Pigs apparently ARE more equal.
 
2012-08-09 11:39:22 AM  
The thing is, the closest you can get to Communism is an attempt. See Mises's extensive debunking (and dead-horse whipping, and pile-driving) of the idea that communism/socialism can work.

When Kruschev promised "Communism in 20 years" they should have just given up.
 
2012-08-09 11:39:46 AM  
It's time for a...BUTLERIAN JIHAD!!!
 
2012-08-09 11:43:08 AM  
If you got into a car accident with a commie you were legally required to become his butler.
 
2012-08-09 11:43:22 AM  
Uh-huh. And our Eco-freak betters like to fly to conferences in exotic locations in personal jets to lecture us about reducing our carbon footprints.

The world is filled with government parasites that talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
 
2012-08-09 11:43:45 AM  

dittybopper: GAT_00: There was nothing truly Communist about the USSR or the Warsaw Pact. It was fascism, nothing else.

I think you are confusing economic systems (communism) with political ones (fascism). You can have a communist economy under a democratic form of government (in theory), or under a totalitarian one.

The whole canard of "it's never been tried!" is wrong, because it *WAS* tried, many times, and every single farkin' time it was tried, it was immediately hijacked by totalitarian assholes and large numbers of people died.



The Bolsheviks didn't hijack anything. They were totalitarian assholes right from the get-go. Marxist theory and the actual Communist Party were ALWAYS two completely different things. Marxism never got beyond academics yammering about it, because it's complete bullshiat totally divorced from reality and human behavior.

Face it, Marx didn't believe socialist reforms were possible in a "capitalist" system. He claimed that revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat were not merely the solution to class struggle, but the INEVITABLE and ONLY possible outcome. He was full of shiat.
 
2012-08-09 11:43:54 AM  

dittybopper: GAT_00: There was nothing truly Communist about the USSR or the Warsaw Pact. It was fascism, nothing else.

I think you are confusing economic systems (communism) with political ones (fascism). You can have a communist economy under a democratic form of government (in theory), or under a totalitarian one.

The whole canard of "it's never been tried!" is wrong, because it *WAS* tried, many times, and every single farkin' time it was tried, it was immediately hijacked by totalitarian assholes and large numbers of people died.

Given the history of the attempts made to establish communism over the last 100 years, and their universal failure to provide what communism promises, sometimes egregiously, and the fact that it appears that the only way to even come close to implementing it at the state level seems to be through totalitarian measures and egregious violations of human rights, can we just say "Hey, it's dead. It only works for ants and bees"?

Marx was an *IDIOT* who didn't understand what motivates people. Some people will always strive to have more than their neighbors, and those people will fark up a system like communism in short order. It's inevitable. The only way to avoid that is to have the ability to exclude people like that, which you can do at the commune level, but not at the state level. Sure, you can murder a bunch of them to try and avoid that, but some will work within the existing political structure to gather more wealth and power for themselves. Even if that wealth and power they gather in theory belongs to the state, they maintain control over it, so in reality, it is "theirs". Before you even come close to approaching theoretical communism, you will have spiraled down to an inequitable society just as stark as in any society ruled by robber barons. In all likelyhood, it will be worse: Robber barons didn't conduct purges or have entire gulags devoted pretty much to killing off their opposition, because despite their power, they still had to answer to the state. Under communism, the robber barons *ARE* the state.


There's a reason your posts are highlighted a nice shade of green. Of course, for that same reason, many will completely miss the point ...

This is Fark. Logic and reason have no place in this discussion.
 
2012-08-09 11:44:35 AM  
Citizen, next time you are in Budapest, report to 60 Andrassy Street (former home of the secret police during the Nazi and Soviet occupations). A museum dedicated to the victims and victimizers. In a society where everyone was equal, the wage for a member of the secret police was ten times the average workers' pay.
 
2012-08-09 11:55:49 AM  

Prattle Assassin: Pigs apparently ARE more equal.


Glad to see this covered.
 
2012-08-09 11:56:03 AM  
Some people are more equal than others obviously

Remember kids political ambition is always more noble than economic ambition!
 
2012-08-09 12:01:38 PM  

dittybopper: GAT_00: There was nothing truly Communist about the USSR or the Warsaw Pact. It was fascism, nothing else.

I think you are confusing economic systems (communism) with political ones (fascism). You can have a communist economy under a democratic form of government (in theory), or under a totalitarian one.

The whole canard of "it's never been tried!" is wrong, because it *WAS* tried, many times, and every single farkin' time it was tried, it was immediately hijacked by totalitarian assholes and large numbers of people died.



it has to be hijacked by authoritarians because none but a small percentage of the population ever wants to turn to communism. it's a necessary precondition that it first be hijacked by authoritarians.
 
2012-08-09 12:01:57 PM  
He wasn't a butler. Butler's are the slaves of the bourgeouisee. He was Comrade Table Operations Engineer, a respectable trade, suited to his abilities.
 
2012-08-09 12:04:24 PM  

GAT_00: The very definition of Communism is no government. Just because it started as an attempt at Communism doesn't mean you can call the whole thing Communist.


yeah, it was socialist.
 
2012-08-09 12:11:05 PM  
>>Erich Honecker, the little grey leader of socialist East Germany, ate with his mouth open, drank West German beer and had his favourite foods delivered to his servants to cook just so, his butler says in a new book.

If this is the worst that he has, it sounds like a very boring book. Compared to modern day dictators, the Eastern European leaders led some pretty pedestrian lives. Well, excepting Ceauşescu.

//you're giving me grief about the DDR
 
2012-08-09 12:11:15 PM  

relcec: it has to be hijacked by authoritarians because none but a small percentage of the population ever wants to turn to communism. it's a necessary precondition that it first be hijacked by authoritarians.


Indeed, they're supposed to disband and fade away once the means of production has been liberated from the oligarchs and returned to the workers. Problem is, once they get into the driver's seat and see how plush it is, they are loath to give it up. This is why Trotsky wrote the lyric "Meet the new boss; Same as the old boss" when he broke ranks with John Lenin when they worked as quarry men in Liverpool, England.
 
2012-08-09 12:11:45 PM  
Hang on - the commies had BUTLERS????

Well, someone had to create the jobs.
 
2012-08-09 12:13:11 PM  
Horrible table manners? P'shaw, that's like getting up from christmas dinner to use the men's room and having Hitler steal your seat!

/.jpg
 
2012-08-09 12:15:45 PM  

urban.derelict: Horrible table manners? P'shaw, that's like getting up from christmas dinner to use the men's room and having Hitler steal your seat!

/.jpg


I love that photo.
 
2012-08-09 12:18:47 PM  
of course they had butlers.

It's is done over here also, we just call them 'cheif of staff'
 
2012-08-09 12:21:15 PM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: relcec: it has to be hijacked by authoritarians because none but a small percentage of the population ever wants to turn to communism. it's a necessary precondition that it first be hijacked by authoritarians.

Indeed, they're supposed to disband and fade away once the means of production has been liberated from the oligarchs and returned to the workers. Problem is, once they get into the driver's seat and see how plush it is, they are loath to give it up. This is why Trotsky wrote the lyric "Meet the new boss; Same as the old boss" when he broke ranks with John Lenin when they worked as quarry men in Liverpool, England.


the real problem is the economic thoery is insane and almost everyone's standard of living goes to shiat and people very often very many people starve to death.
instead of getting the population to eventually buy in to communism by creating a uptopia, everything gets worse and everyone with half brain now hates it more than ever. so the state can't fade away, or you get what happened after the USSR said the Warsaw pact countries could do whatever they wanted.
 
2012-08-09 12:22:54 PM  
Oh good, GAT_00 is displaying his self-inflicted ideological blinders again.
 
2012-08-09 12:28:47 PM  
This just in: The most power a government is given, the more it will abuse it.
Ric Romero reporting.
 
2012-08-09 12:29:46 PM  

relcec: AngryJailhouseFistfark: relcec: it has to be hijacked by authoritarians because none but a small percentage of the population ever wants to turn to communism. it's a necessary precondition that it first be hijacked by authoritarians.

Indeed, they're supposed to disband and fade away once the means of production has been liberated from the oligarchs and returned to the workers. Problem is, once they get into the driver's seat and see how plush it is, they are loath to give it up. This is why Trotsky wrote the lyric "Meet the new boss; Same as the old boss" when he broke ranks with John Lenin when they worked as quarry men in Liverpool, England.

the real problem is the economic thoery is insane and almost everyone's standard of living goes to shiat and people very often very many people starve to death.
instead of getting the population to eventually buy in to communism by creating a uptopia, everything gets worse and everyone with half brain now hates it more than ever. so the state can't fade away, or you get what happened after the USSR said the Warsaw pact countries could do whatever they wanted.


There's a reason they invented the New Soviet Man. It's because communism/socialism doesn't work with Homo sapiens.
 
2012-08-09 12:36:18 PM  

GAT_00: The very definition of Communism is no government. Just because it started as an attempt at Communism doesn't mean you can call the whole thing Communist.


True. They never called their form of government communist either as a matter of fact.

They claimed to be a socialist state, with the end goal of achieving communism.
 
2012-08-09 12:40:57 PM  
In the 80s, the Stasi paid particular attention to the antics of figure skater Katarina Witt, who was
notorious for liking western-style high living. Supposedly, they got a clandestine video of one of her
sexual romps, and they contronted her with it intending to blackmail her into behaving, threatening to
release it to embarass her.

Supposedly, Frauline Witt's reaction was anger that she wouldn't be getting a cut of the royalties for
such distribution.

For those of you who don't know who Katarina Witt is, this should help jog your memories:

www.jeff-goldsmith.org

She is the reason for the figure skating rule that women's costumes must be sychned at the neck
& shoulders due to this little incident (NSFW, of course)


And of course she did a Playboy spread (GIS for it, it is NSFW and well worth the time).
 
2012-08-09 12:44:02 PM  

YixilTesiphon: There's a reason they invented the New Soviet Man. It's because communism/socialism doesn't work with Homo sapiens.


I don't think I ever heard of that.
 
2012-08-09 12:50:36 PM  

relcec: YixilTesiphon: There's a reason they invented the New Soviet Man. It's because communism/socialism doesn't work with Homo sapiens.

I don't think I ever heard of that.


Wikipedia article on it

The New Soviet man or New Soviet person (Russian: новый советский человек novy sovetsky chelovek), as postulated by the ideologists of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, was an archetype of a person with certain qualities that were said to be emerging as dominant among all citizens of the Soviet Union, irrespective of the country's cultural, ethnic, and linguistic diversity, creating a single Soviet people, Soviet nation.

IOW, "derp".
 
2012-08-09 12:51:42 PM  
Poor table manners, well guess this guy should never go to one of my huge family get togethers
 
2012-08-09 01:01:53 PM  

relcec: it has to be hijacked by authoritarians because none but a small percentage of the population ever wants to turn to communism. it's a necessary precondition that it first be hijacked by authoritarians.


Did not most of North Vietnam and North Korea desire communism? Or was that forced on the entire population?
 
2012-08-09 01:20:46 PM  

YixilTesiphon: IOW, "derp".


That's Comrade derp to you, tovarich.
 
2012-08-09 01:32:40 PM  

nytmare: relcec: it has to be hijacked by authoritarians because none but a small percentage of the population ever wants to turn to communism. it's a necessary precondition that it first be hijacked by authoritarians.

Did not most of North Vietnam and North Korea desire communism? Or was that forced on the entire population?


that vast majority of Koreans and Vietnamese were simple peasants I imagine who just preferred to be left alone by everybody.

but in Vietnam the anti colonial movement was the communist movement.
so it had to be more popular than it otherwise would have been just for that reason. maybe you are right.
maybe there were genuine popular communist movements.
there was the Paris commune as well.

anyway, most people tend towards the apathetic anyway. it's not the indictment that it probably sounds like to say a movement doesn't get support from the majority of the population.
a large percentage of American colonialists sat on the fence during our own revolutionary war. you might be able to say independence was thrown on the majority of American colonialists because I'd bet a majority of the populace didn't support the war.
 
2012-08-09 01:47:05 PM  
Erich Honecker can burn in Hades.
 
2012-08-09 02:36:38 PM  

nytmare: relcec: it has to be hijacked by authoritarians because none but a small percentage of the population ever wants to turn to communism. it's a necessary precondition that it first be hijacked by authoritarians.

Did not most of North Vietnam and North Korea desire communism? Or was that forced on the entire population?


It falls into the funny gray area that most people call "fraud." Before it was implemented, the North Koreans and North Vietnamese wanted Marxism so bad they were willing to die for it. After it was implemented, most were unwilling to admit they were wrong and all its promises were really lies, especially after so many of their family and friends had sacrificed their lives for it. By the time anyone was willing to admit they'd been swindled, the swindlers had established an unbeatable military advantage over the rest of the population, and lived their lives in luxury while their soldiers enjoyed squeezing the peasants dry of anything they produced and killing any who tried to even passively resist.

/it will happen in the US too
//the people who insist that it "hasn't really been tried yet" just haven't figured out how to sell it to the majority
 
2012-08-09 02:39:52 PM  

GAT_00: There was nothing truly Communist about the USSR or the Warsaw Pact. It was fascism, nothing else.


That's because Communism is just a red herring
 
2012-08-09 02:42:05 PM  
The elite enjoyed privileges under any social system.
Honecker lived better than the average east German, but if you compare the difference with the difference between Goldman Sachs's CEO and someone making minimum wage with no health insurance, East Germany was not such a bad place.
(If you compare with West Germany, it was, but the West German also had health insurance and free university)
 
2012-08-09 02:55:56 PM  

dittybopper: Marx was an *IDIOT* who didn't understand what motivates people.


Let me guess, the number of books by Marx you read is roughly 0,right?
 
2012-08-09 03:10:43 PM  

lunogled: if you compare the difference with the difference between Goldman Sachs's CEO and someone making minimum wage with no health insurance, East Germany was not such a bad place


*head asplode*
 
2012-08-09 03:43:18 PM  
Anthropogenic global warming due to over-use of petroleum puts the lie to mercantilism more directly and simply than these arguments obviate the need for socialism. If the West were so certain that communism was such a loser, why did they bother to put such great military and economic pressure on communist states?

The presumption that consumer goods are the meaning of life has been pretty will dealt with by the Missouri school of economics. Our society is so maniacally capitalistic that it donates mineral wealth to the rich.
 
2012-08-09 03:45:13 PM  

signaljammer: Anthropogenic global warming due to over-use of petroleum puts the lie to mercantilism more directly and simply than these arguments obviate the need for socialism. If the West were so certain that communism was such a loser, why did they bother to put such great military and economic pressure on communist states?

The presumption that consumer goods are the meaning of life has been pretty will dealt with by the Missouri school of economics. Our society is so maniacally capitalistic that it donates mineral wealth to the rich.


Did you just do the Fark equivalent of the Dilbert Mission Statement Generator in order to create this post?
 
2012-08-09 04:04:07 PM  

signaljammer: Anthropogenic global warming due to over-use of petroleum puts the lie to mercantilism more directly and simply than these arguments obviate the need for socialism. If the West were so certain that communism was such a loser, why did they bother to put such great military and economic pressure on communist states?

The presumption that consumer goods are the meaning of life has been pretty will dealt with by the Missouri school of economics. Our society is so maniacally capitalistic that it donates mineral wealth to the rich.


LOL. Wut?

First, the Commies kept attacking the West and promising to conquer us. We are allowed to protect ourselves, yes?

Second, Capitalism has been shown to be more efficient in the use of resources AND better for the environment.

Third, people like nice stuff and a good standard of living. Nothing wrong with that. Under Communism, the hypocritical "servants of the people" lived well while everyone else was rationed. This article just proves it. Nothing is more important than 'class' in a supposedly classless society.
 
2012-08-09 04:45:06 PM  
I like big butlers and I can not lie.
 
xcv
2012-08-09 04:58:25 PM  

LargeCanine: First, the Commies kept attacking the West and promising to conquer us. We are allowed to protect ourselves, yes?


Wasn't there a Western military expedition after WW1 that put anti-communist troops from the UK and America in Russia?
 
2012-08-09 07:13:19 PM  

xcv: LargeCanine: First, the Commies kept attacking the West and promising to conquer us. We are allowed to protect ourselves, yes?

Wasn't there a Western military expedition after WW1 that put anti-communist troops from the UK and America in Russia?


The Allied Expeditionary Force was sent to help the anti-Bolshevik forces because the Bolsheviks were siding with Germany.

That said, what difference does it make? The USSR was an expansionist empire whose expressed goal was the domination and occupation of the entire world.
 
2012-08-10 02:29:19 AM  
Of course they did. Did you really think leftists in charge, no matter the country, are ever talking about themselves when they talk about equality? It's perfectly fine for them to live like kings, it's everyone else that has to live within the system.

Obama is not an exception to this unless you're naive enough to think he and his children are not going to be given preferential treatment for the rest of their lives. It's wrong to be rich and successful, unless you're Chelsea Clinton and in which case it's perfect acceptable to spend millions on a wedding while decrying the rich and telling everyone how much you care about the middle class families out there struggling.
 
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