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(KSTU FOX 13)   Mormon branch president accused in genital-biting attack - see they are just like other religions   (fox13now.com) divider line 26
    More: Sick, Salt Lake City, branch president, Salt Lake County, charging document, faiths, Spanish-speaking  
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5786 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Aug 2012 at 12:41 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-09 02:02:19 AM  
4 votes:

Asa Phelps: Except mormons don't protect their predatory clergy.

They feed them to the wolves.


As much as I'd like to believe that, I find it kind of hard to believe that this guy suddenly went from pillar of the community, to jailbait fondling, dick biting psycho overnight. Usually these dudes gradually escalate, and I'm wondering if there was a few "misunderstandings" that got quietly handled in-house.
2012-08-08 11:45:14 PM  
4 votes:
Any organization that gets big enough will have the occasional rapist/child molester/etc. Those people exist in society and just going by statistics there are going to be some in the Mormon religion. The question is how will the organization handle it? Does it hide the criminal and protect them from prosecution? Or does it immediately turn them into law enforcement and ban them from ministering? Let's see...

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released a statement Wednesday, saying, "The Church has zero tolerance for abuse of any kind. Mr. Guzman has been released from his Church duties effective immediately and faces further Church discipline following the legal process."

Oh look, LDS takes shiat like this seriously! That puts them one up from the Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church, at least.
2012-08-09 12:44:50 AM  
3 votes:

platedlizard: Any organization that gets big enough will have the occasional rapist/child molester/etc. Those people exist in society and just going by statistics there are going to be some in the Mormon religion. The question is how will the organization handle it? Does it hide the criminal and protect them from prosecution? Or does it immediately turn them into law enforcement and ban them from ministering? Let's see...

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released a statement Wednesday, saying, "The Church has zero tolerance for abuse of any kind. Mr. Guzman has been released from his Church duties effective immediately and faces further Church discipline following the legal process."

Oh look, LDS takes shiat like this seriously! That puts them one up from the Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church, at least.


He got CAUGHT!
2012-08-09 07:33:58 AM  
2 votes:

Asa Phelps: Except mormons don't protect their predatory clergy.

They feed them to the wolves.


Uhh, how about NO!

Just Google Mormon (LDS) Sexual Abuse and you will find out that they have had to pay out an estimated $3-$5 Billion over the last decade or so, for any number of child sexual abuse cases committed by clergy or ranking members within the church. In some instances, it was institutionalized and rampant in Mormon run organizations and had gone on for decades. (And, I'm not talking about the off-shoot "fundamentalist Mormon" churches like those lead by Warren Jeffs, I am talking about the mainstream LDS church.)

I might also mention that the recent public reporting from the Boy Scouts about the sexual abuse that is widespread within the organization, only became public after numerous newspapers and others brought suit forcing it public. The Mormon Church (which has very tight connections to BSA) paid for the defense of the Boy Scouts in these lawsuits, in order to try and avoid making that info public.

In this case the church was forced into acting, because the transgressions of their ward leader became public. I might also ask for people to actually read the comments section of the linked article. You will see many coming to the defense of the church and accuse the media and "haters' in Utah for trying to paint the church in a false light, etc. The kind of "help us we're being persecuted, even though we are the majority" nonsense that gets jumped on here all the time. Some of these folk are as deep in denial as any penn stater.
2012-08-09 04:19:06 AM  
2 votes:

Sgt Otter: Asa Phelps: Except mormons don't protect their predatory clergy.

They feed them to the wolves.

As much as I'd like to believe that, I find it kind of hard to believe that this guy suddenly went from pillar of the community, to jailbait fondling, dick biting psycho overnight. Usually these dudes gradually escalate, and I'm wondering if there was a few "misunderstandings" that got quietly handled in-house.


Oh, I'm quite sure of that. Also, expect other victims to quietly emerge from whatever hell they've been living in, afraid of having their lives ruined by denouncing this prick, now that he's been exposed.

Contrary to Farkian belief, coming forward to accuse a pervert, rapist or pedophile--especially one highly placed in the community--is NOT easy, it is NOT fun, and many victims would rather just get on with their lives and hope it's not happening to anyone else. Simply because of the stigma of being a victim of a sexual attack, and because so often they weren't believed in the past.

"Oh, Timmy, Bishop Dickwad wouldn't do that to you! Are you sure you're not just mad because he scolded you in church? Stop imagining things!" A few of those, and nobody will ever say a word.
2012-08-09 02:47:47 AM  
2 votes:

LOTN: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controv e rsies

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), a longtime supporter of the Boy Scouts of America, teaches that homosexual activity is immoral.[93] The LDS Church is the largest single sponsor of Scouting units with over 30,000 units nationwide, which comprise about 13% of BSA's youth members.[6][94] The LDS Church has stated that it would withdraw from the Scouting program if it was ever compelled to accept openly homosexual Scout leaders.[6][95] This does not differ from the LDS Church policy of allowing "non practicing" self professed gay members to enjoy all the same rights and privileges as any other Church member.

A capacity to shut down a tenth of the program if they are crossed gives them considerable sway, even ignoring Mormon members in leadership positions.

A scouts priorities are supposed to follow God and Country, others and finally self. The BSA's priorities, on the other hand, ought to be counted on a single finger. Turning boys into the sorts of men that will drive our country and humanity as a whole into a brighter future. Teaching boys about religion is important. Having a deep and personal understanding of the beliefs that others hold, and a solid understanding of your own beliefs is paramount in creating the self knowledge that should underlie a mans mind.

But to reject persons because their beliefs differ? Because they do not approach mysteries from the same viewpoint, or prefer to concentrate on the knowns of this life allowing their good deeds to speak to whatever may come should there be anything to come after at all?

This is not the scout way. It is a perversion of the scout ethos, and it is the reason popular support for the program is dropping.

The leadership of scouting is taking it in a wrong direction, and it is destroying a great program in the process.



Then I guess it depends on what your definition is of "crossing" them. They believe that certain acts are a perversion of sex, including (but not limited to) homosexuality. They wouldn't appoint a leader who freely admits he sleeps with women he's not married to, and they would strongly oppose being legally forced to do so. You can look at it as having an anti-gay stance, but it's not exclusively an attack on homosexuality. As the wiki entry states, you can be gay and still be lds, but to act on it is viewed with equal treatment as someone who acts on the temptation to have sex outside of marriage.

I don't know much about how the scouting program runs outside the church, except that the parents can be really hardcore about it. Ours is a super casual troop that meets once a week and does something fun. No politics involved.
2012-08-09 02:17:18 AM  
2 votes:

teeny: LOTN: my understanding is that it is in large part Mormon influence at the higher councils that forces the BSA to have an anti-gay sentiment. So, these guys can still fark off.

I don't think Mormons have a super strong influence with the BSA. They allow a certain degree of the program to exist within the church, but the leaders are all volunteers from each ward. They don't allow the boys to start until they're 8, and they don't allow any overnight activities until they're several years older. While their position on homosexuality is clear, it's no less harsh than their stance on extra-marital affairs. They'll stick to their standards, but I doubt they forced any decision on the BSA.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controve rsies

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), a longtime supporter of the Boy Scouts of America, teaches that homosexual activity is immoral.[93] The LDS Church is the largest single sponsor of Scouting units with over 30,000 units nationwide, which comprise about 13% of BSA's youth members.[6][94] The LDS Church has stated that it would withdraw from the Scouting program if it was ever compelled to accept openly homosexual Scout leaders.[6][95] This does not differ from the LDS Church policy of allowing "non practicing" self professed gay members to enjoy all the same rights and privileges as any other Church member.

A capacity to shut down a tenth of the program if they are crossed gives them considerable sway, even ignoring Mormon members in leadership positions.

A scouts priorities are supposed to follow God and Country, others and finally self. The BSA's priorities, on the other hand, ought to be counted on a single finger. Turning boys into the sorts of men that will drive our country and humanity as a whole into a brighter future. Teaching boys about religion is important. Having a deep and personal understanding of the beliefs that others hold, and a solid understanding of your own beliefs is paramount in creating the self knowledge that should underlie a mans mind.

But to reject persons because their beliefs differ? Because they do not approach mysteries from the same viewpoint, or prefer to concentrate on the knowns of this life allowing their good deeds to speak to whatever may come should there be anything to come after at all?

This is not the scout way. It is a perversion of the scout ethos, and it is the reason popular support for the program is dropping.

The leadership of scouting is taking it in a wrong direction, and it is destroying a great program in the process.
2012-08-09 01:28:38 AM  
2 votes:

platedlizard: Any organization that gets big enough will have the occasional rapist/child molester/etc. Those people exist in society and just going by statistics there are going to be some in the Mormon religion. The question is how will the organization handle it? Does it hide the criminal and protect them from prosecution? Or does it immediately turn them into law enforcement and ban them from ministering? Let's see...

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released a statement Wednesday, saying, "The Church has zero tolerance for abuse of any kind. Mr. Guzman has been released from his Church duties effective immediately and faces further Church discipline following the legal process."

Oh look, LDS takes shiat like this seriously! That puts them one up from the Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church, at least.


While their lack of protecting criminals is comparatively laudable, my understanding is that it is in large part Mormon influence at the higher councils that forces the BSA to have an anti-gay sentiment. So, these guys can still fark off.
2012-08-09 01:00:34 AM  
2 votes:
See what happens to people when they can't drink like normal folks?
2012-08-09 12:58:46 AM  
2 votes:
Once again, Mormon Clergy! This kinda crap happens all the time, only this time he got Caught, inso the
"Church" could not cover it up.
2012-08-09 12:57:55 AM  
2 votes:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released a statement Wednesday, saying, "The Church has zero tolerance for abuse of any kind. Mr. Guzman has been released from his Church duties effective immediately and faces further Church discipline following the legal process."

Yeah, and like they've done before, they'll reinstate him a few years down the road, saying he's learned his lesson, and advise that family to learn the power of forgiveness.
2012-08-08 10:54:13 PM  
2 votes:

Asa Phelps: Except mormons don't protect their predatory clergy.

They feed them to the wolves.


"Predatory clergy" is redundant. As for what they do with sexually predatory clergy... We shall see.
2012-08-09 11:29:15 AM  
1 votes:

Asa Phelps: Except mormons don't protect their predatory clergy.

They feed them to the wolves.


Not so fast; first thing off Google:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/child-abuse-cover-up-costs-mo r mon-church-3-million-71939217.html
2012-08-09 09:16:59 AM  
1 votes:
Aussie_As: As has been discussed extensively on various threads recently, psychologists reject the view that pedophiles fit into the usual hetero-homosexual spectrum, even when they exhibit a preference for kids of a certain sex. Unlike homosexuals, or heterosexuals for that matter, they have an incompletely-formed sexuality, and their general preference is for children, not men or women. Google will tell you much more.

I am getting incredibly sick of this out of context assertion. It only applies to "fixated" pedophiles... not ALL pedophiles. How about YOU go do some googling (and read propertly) or STFU and stop misleading people.
2012-08-09 05:00:13 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Sgt Otter: Asa Phelps: Except mormons don't protect their predatory clergy.

They feed them to the wolves.

As much as I'd like to believe that, I find it kind of hard to believe that this guy suddenly went from pillar of the community, to jailbait fondling, dick biting psycho overnight. Usually these dudes gradually escalate, and I'm wondering if there was a few "misunderstandings" that got quietly handled in-house.

Oh, I'm quite sure of that. Also, expect other victims to quietly emerge from whatever hell they've been living in, afraid of having their lives ruined by denouncing this prick, now that he's been exposed.

Contrary to Farkian belief, coming forward to accuse a pervert, rapist or pedophile--especially one highly placed in the community--is NOT easy, it is NOT fun, and many victims would rather just get on with their lives and hope it's not happening to anyone else. Simply because of the stigma of being a victim of a sexual attack, and because so often they weren't believed in the past.

"Oh, Timmy, Bishop Dickwad wouldn't do that to you! Are you sure you're not just mad because he scolded you in church? Stop imagining things!" A few of those, and nobody will ever say a word.


and how sad is that? this scenario has obviously happened way too many times. it just made it very easy for the RC church clergy who were molesters to continue to do so. reading of Bishop Dickwad made me realize it wasn't just the clergy and their manipulative upline that made what has happened possible. it was also mom & dad turning a blind eye when they should have been protecting what they supposedly love the most. perhaps the same could be said for the many parents who chose not to participate in their sons BSA activities, instead leaving them in the hands of whatever male adult was willing to go backpacking and camping. like i've mentioned before, the biggest problem we had when I was a boy in a BSA troop was getting parents to volunteer their time.

i am the youngest of four children. by the time my parents had me they were worn out and tired. conversation between Dad and I (this was real):
Krispy: Dad, can i join little league baseball?
Dad: Son, you can do whatever you want, as long as I don't have to participate or get involved.
Krispy: Thanks, Dad!

i'm not a parent but if i was i'd think i'd steer the children toward little league baseball. that's the only activity i know of that is not heavily associated with adults fondling kiddies. perhaps we need to start sending American children to Church and on BSA outings armed with ball bats. that would make Mr. Molester think twice.
2012-08-09 02:16:18 AM  
1 votes:

Sgt Otter: Asa Phelps: Except mormons don't protect their predatory clergy.

They feed them to the wolves.

As much as I'd like to believe that, I find it kind of hard to believe that this guy suddenly went from pillar of the community, to jailbait fondling, dick biting psycho overnight. Usually these dudes gradually escalate, and I'm wondering if there was a few "misunderstandings" that got quietly handled in-house.


I would be honestly surprised if that did happen (a coverup.) They're willing to dis-fellowship members for a great many reasons some of which that do not even come close to something of this magnitude. Will just have to wait and see though.
2012-08-09 02:15:34 AM  
1 votes:
Seriously though, they're the same as all other religions. You're just more used to Catholicism and Protestantism's particular brand of crazy.
2012-08-09 01:38:17 AM  
1 votes:

LOTN: my understanding is that it is in large part Mormon influence at the higher councils that forces the BSA to have an anti-gay sentiment. So, these guys can still fark off.


I don't think Mormons have a super strong influence with the BSA. They allow a certain degree of the program to exist within the church, but the leaders are all volunteers from each ward. They don't allow the boys to start until they're 8, and they don't allow any overnight activities until they're several years older. While their position on homosexuality is clear, it's no less harsh than their stance on extra-marital affairs. They'll stick to their standards, but I doubt they forced any decision on the BSA.
2012-08-09 01:31:17 AM  
1 votes:

Miss Stein: Yeah, and like they've done before, they'll reinstate him a few years down the road, saying he's learned his lesson, and advise that family to learn the power of forgiveness.


And they'd probably make arrangements for him to attend a different ward. At least I'd assume they would. I don't know exactly how they'd handle such an extreme case.
2012-08-09 01:28:20 AM  
1 votes:

Miss Stein: Yeah, and like they've done before, they'll reinstate him a few years down the road, saying he's learned his lesson, and advise that family to learn the power of forgiveness.


They'd probably allow him to rejoin the church and attend meetings, but they'll never put him in a position of any kind of authority. If he's ever given a job (or a calling, as they call it) to do within his ward, it'll be something like printing and folding the agenda/announcements every week.
2012-08-09 01:01:30 AM  
1 votes:
He won't be a Mormon for much longer.

The more I think about it, biting the brother's wang was a good idea. In state prison nobody is going to put their junk near his mouth. Of course he will resemble the Goatse guy, but at least he won't have to taste anything.
2012-08-09 12:54:05 AM  
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: "Predatory clergy" is redundant. As for what they do with sexually predatory clergy... We shall see.


The vast majority of these cases are male on male, yet they never call it sexually predatory homosexual pedophilia.
You know, just like that Sandusky guy was guilty of.
2012-08-09 12:52:24 AM  
1 votes:
Holy shiat. That's a hell of a hat trick, there, guy.

I wonder if Bath Salts were involved in this one?
2012-08-09 12:46:07 AM  
1 votes:
That's messed up. When did the LDS let non-whites into the clergy?
2012-08-08 10:15:45 PM  
1 votes:
Except mormons don't protect their predatory clergy.

They feed them to the wolves.
2012-08-08 08:36:48 PM  
1 votes:
What a moroni
 
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