If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Big Lead)   You know the NCAA is corrupt, but exactly how corrupt? We'll soon have a dollar figure to help answer that question   (thebiglead.com) divider line 53
    More: Interesting, NCAA, Matt Barkley, Denard Robinson, USGA, gold medals, Title IX, variable costs, Missy Franklin  
•       •       •

1925 clicks; posted to Sports » on 08 Aug 2012 at 6:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



53 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-08-08 04:49:31 PM
So, reading the article, the crux of the arguments is the NCAA is getting rich off the players and the players should be getting a piece of the action. Fair enough. Though, when you really think about it, isn't a free ride through college worth quite a bit of money? I mean tuition, room, board at a State school is still twenty grand plus a year, a private school that can run fifty grand a year. Throw in the significant chance to turn pro upon graduation, that sounds like compensation to me.


That isn't even taking into account the ability to rape with impunity, and you just can't put a dollar value on that.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-08 05:00:36 PM
We may not have a dollar figure. The TV contracts will be covered by a protective order.

the crux of the arguments is the NCAA is getting rich off the players and the players should be getting a piece of the action.

That's not quite what the legal dispute is about. If you click through to the real article, it's officially about antitrust. The NCAA is getting rich by colluding to fix the price of the right of publicity for a student-athlete. If players got a piece of the action they could still have a right to sue for antitrust violations.
 
2012-08-08 05:31:07 PM

Ennuipoet: So, reading the article, the crux of the arguments is the NCAA is getting rich off the players and the players should be getting a piece of the action. Fair enough. Though, when you really think about it, isn't a free ride through college worth quite a bit of money? I mean tuition, room, board at a State school is still twenty grand plus a year, a private school that can run fifty grand a year. Throw in the significant chance to turn pro upon graduation, that sounds like compensation to me.


That isn't even taking into account the ability to rape with impunity, and you just can't put a dollar value on that.


No, I think the going NCAA rate for raping with impunity is $60,000,000.
 
2012-08-08 05:34:28 PM

doyner: No, I think the going NCAA rate for raping with impunity is $60,000,000.


Heh, duly noted.
 
2012-08-08 06:43:27 PM
Put some of the licensing revenue in escrow to be paid to the players who generate said licensing revenue...when those players graduate.

Wipe hands on pants.
 
2012-08-08 06:57:32 PM
I don't care how corrupt they are, all I know is college football starts in 22 days.

College > NFL
 
2012-08-08 07:17:52 PM

Ennuipoet: So, reading the article, the crux of the arguments is the NCAA is getting rich off the players and the players should be getting a piece of the action. Fair enough. Though, when you really think about it, isn't a free ride through college worth quite a bit of money? I mean tuition, room, board at a State school is still twenty grand plus a year, a private school that can run fifty grand a year. Throw in the significant chance to turn pro upon graduation, that sounds like compensation to me.


That isn't even taking into account the ability to rape with impunity, and you just can't put a dollar value on that.


Not to mention the coaching. Ask some of these olympic athletes how much they've had to pay coaches (and training facilities) over the past 4 years. College athletes get that for free, and it would cost a hell of a lot more than most people think if they had to pay for it out of pocket. For example, Alabama's football staff makes about $7-$8 million a year, not counting grad assistants and training staff. Divided by 85 guys, that's almost $100,000 each.
 
2012-08-08 07:21:25 PM

consider this: I don't care how corrupt they are, all I know is college football starts in 22 days.

College > NFL


This. You never see serial child rape tolerated for over a decade in the NFL after all.
 
2012-08-08 07:23:42 PM

consider this: I don't care how corrupt they are, all I know is college football starts in 22 days.

College > NFL


That relationship is certainly true on the corruption dimension. Pay the players their values as determined by properly functioning labor markets, and much of the problem of corruption disappears.

However, if your equation is meant to capture popularity or demand, you are incorrect. The NFL offers a fraction of the games of even D1 FBS, yet generates more revenue. The higher attendance numbers in college football are due to a much looser capacity constraints and the lower ticket prices in college ball, and not due to a demand curve that is right of that for the NFL. Furthermore, no college football event even remotely comes close to the money or tv ratings generated by the Super Bowl. The BCS Championship game draws about a third of the number who watch the SB - about as many as watch a typical NFL playoff game.

BUT, if you are talking about your enjoyment of college vs. NFL football, well.. de gustibus non est disputandum. Carry on.
 
2012-08-08 07:23:51 PM

PowerSlacker: This. You never see serial child rape tolerated for over a decade in the NFL after all.


Clearly you've never heard of the Browns.
 
2012-08-08 07:25:23 PM

Ennuipoet: So, reading the article, the crux of the arguments is the NCAA is getting rich off the players and the players should be getting a piece of the action. Fair enough. Though, when you really think about it, isn't a free ride through college worth quite a bit of money?


Not every player is on a full-ride. Some of them get to spend the time that they could be working to pay their way through school at practice or in the weight room.
 
2012-08-08 07:25:32 PM

PowerSlacker: This. You never see serial child rape tolerated for over a decade in the NFL after all.


NFL arrest database
 
2012-08-08 07:25:43 PM
Is someone holding a gun to the head of these student/athletes and forcing them to play ? Oh wait ... its voluntary ? They voluntarily sign a scholarship agreement ? Well BAH GAWD
 
2012-08-08 07:27:14 PM
puffy999:

Clearly you've never heard of the Browns.

They have had some problems with their staph ...
 
2012-08-08 07:27:21 PM

Ennuipoet: significant chance


No.
 
2012-08-08 07:37:31 PM

bronyaur1: However, if your equation is meant to capture popularity or demand, you are incorrect.


This is a discussion that depends on how you frame the argument.

Football fans "care" more about the NFL. Average Americans have probably had more encounters with college or high school football than the NFL, and if they don't care about sports are probably more likely to have watched those at some point in their lives; the only exception being the Super Bowl, which can at this point be considered a sporting outlier because it's hyped to be a "yearly event," not a football championship game. Hell, some people watch for the COMMERCIALS or the horrible halftime show.

There are more college and high school football "fanatics," but they do not have the spending power of the average NFL "fanatic."

Let's not forget, though, that the NFL is an organization that is wholly interested in promoting the group and making everyone money. The NCAA is a crappy organization that has little control over how conferences financially operate and make money for their member schools. I mean, even if every person in the US loved NCAA football, it's incredibly unlikely that they could financially match the NFL.
 
2012-08-08 07:38:48 PM

veedeevadeevoodee: puffy999:

Clearly you've never heard of the Browns.

They have had some problems with their staph ...


Ba dum psh
 
2012-08-08 07:40:55 PM

consider this: PowerSlacker: This. You never see serial child rape tolerated for over a decade in the NFL after all.

NFL arrest database


Didn't see any serial child rapists at your link.

In defense of the college game, The Fulmer Cup is more fun than the NFL arrest database.
 
2012-08-08 07:41:48 PM

PowerSlacker: Put some of the licensing revenue in escrow to be paid to the players who generate said licensing revenue...when those players graduate.

Wipe hands on pants.


I always said that's the best thing to do, paying them while in school is just asking for problems.
 
2012-08-08 07:46:12 PM

PowerSlacker: Didn't see any serial child rapists at your link.


I don't see any child rapists playing for any college team. You also don't see anywhere close to the number of college players with criminal records as you do in the NFL.

You know what else you don't see in the NFL? Stadiums packed with over 100,000 fans.
 
2012-08-08 07:50:35 PM

consider this: PowerSlacker: Didn't see any serial child rapists at your link.

I don't see any child rapists playing for any college team. You also don't see anywhere close to the number of college players with criminal records as you do in the NFL.

You know what else you don't see in the NFL? Stadiums packed with over 100,000 fans.


I live in Oregon, so i know the bolded statement above is wrong.
 
2012-08-08 07:57:35 PM

2wolves: Ennuipoet: significant chance

No.


Well, compared to some kid who can play but never got recruited by a NCAA school, the chances are exponentially better for the kid who was. So, who has a significant chance versus no chance in hell?

/I understand the vast majority of players who play college sports never see the pros, but slim is better than none, it even equates to "significant".
 
2012-08-08 08:09:21 PM
People keep bringing up the value of a scholarship, but when you consider the amounts of money the schools, conferences, and TV networks make off the backs of the kids, the difference is still exploitative.

I think it's time student athletes were unionized. There should be a collegiate athletes professional association.
 
2012-08-08 08:21:53 PM

UNC_Samurai: People keep bringing up the value of a scholarship, but when you consider the amounts of money the schools, conferences, and TV networks make off the backs of the kids, the difference is still exploitative.

I think it's time student athletes were unionized. There should be a collegiate athletes professional association.


Athletes are like unpaid interns, both sides benefit from the arrangement.
 
2012-08-08 08:35:29 PM

Ennuipoet: 2wolves: Ennuipoet: significant chance

No.

Well, compared to some kid who can play but never got recruited by a NCAA school, the chances are exponentially better for the kid who was. So, who has a significant chance versus no chance in hell?

/I understand the vast majority of players who play college sports never see the pros, but slim is better than none, it even equates to "significant".


Would you care to show that mathematically?
 
2012-08-08 08:49:53 PM

PowerSlacker: consider this: PowerSlacker: Didn't see any serial child rapists at your link.

I don't see any child rapists playing for any college team. You also don't see anywhere close to the number of college players with criminal records as you do in the NFL.

You know what else you don't see in the NFL? Stadiums packed with over 100,000 fans.

I live in Oregon, so i know the bolded statement above is wrong.


I lived in Nebraska during the 1990s, so I know the bolded statement above is wrong. But hey, at least the Huskers got three national titles out of fielding a time featuring some of the biggest scumbags ever to play college football (Lawrence Phillips, Christian Peter, Jason Peter).

College football is one of the most mismanaged businesses ever. As a fan, I like some of the quirky things about the game that arise from it being run by different conferences without any meaningful centralized authority.

On the other hand, I hate having a meaningless postseason run by sleazy tax-exempt bowl organizations that cheat schools out of millions and don't give nearly as much to charity as they claim to. On top of that, the bowl orgs openly buy off college presidents and ADs, then force fans to travel sometimes hundreds of miles to watch exhibition games in NFL stadiums, saddle participating schools with the costs and laugh all the way to the bank. It's really disgusting.

I hope the four-team playoff divorces itself from the bowls in 2026 when the contract is up and expands to eight teams with home field advantage for higher seeds and a neutral-site championship. And I hope the players get paid - sure an education is great, but not every player gets a scholarship and not every player who does get a scholarship graduates (some don't need to because they go pro - others just flame out for whatever reason). On top of that, the market value of many players exceeds the value of a scholarship at most school. I wish there were a way to divorce football from Title IX and get around those issues, too.
 
2012-08-08 09:08:58 PM
Is the NCAA finished condemning Penn State for making college football too big?
 
2012-08-08 09:10:02 PM

2wolves: Would you care to show that mathematically?


OK, someone who plays for an NCAA team has X% chance of playing for the pros, someone who does not play for an NCAA team has X
 
2012-08-08 09:10:44 PM

Ennuipoet: 2wolves: Would you care to show that mathematically?

OK, someone who plays for an NCAA team has X% chance of playing for the pros, someone who does not play for an NCAA team has X


Stupid brackets, stupid beer has Less Than X% chance of playing in the pros
 
2012-08-08 09:12:00 PM
This will help sentiment toward Penn State

img.gawkerassets.com

/hot like a steamy shower
 
2012-08-08 09:14:42 PM

InfrasonicTom: This will help sentiment toward Penn State

[img.gawkerassets.com image 300x300]

/hot like a steamy shower


Is it too late to give those bastards a four year death penalty?
 
2012-08-08 09:24:04 PM

PowerSlacker: Is it too late to give those bastards a four year death penalty?


Yeah, lets punish an entire program for the actions of a few douchebags that are either dead, in prison for life or facing charges.
 
2012-08-08 09:36:19 PM

consider this: PowerSlacker: Is it too late to give those bastards a four year death penalty?

Yeah, lets punish an entire program for the actions of a few douchebags that are either dead, in prison for life or facing charges.


I'm referring to the douchebag Penn State fans that still don't get it. Those people deserve to lose their precious football program.

Great strawman as always though.
 
2012-08-08 09:43:13 PM
In a better world, athletics wouldn't be sponsored by academic institutions.
 
2012-08-08 10:15:55 PM

MyEnamine: In a better world, athletics wouldn't be sponsored by academic institutions.


No, I think athletics has a place in academia. And I even think intercollegiate competition has a place. What doesn't have a place is the NFL (and other pro sports) using universities as a free farm league. I get a few kids who are simply not ready for college in my classes; though, despite the stereotype, they are the exception - I get a disproportionate number of athletes in my classes compared to the other professors in my department, but have only had 3-4 athletes over 6 years who were just butt-ignorant. More common are the kids who just don't want to be there. They have to go to college if they want to compete with any chance of a pro career, but they have no real desire to be in college. So they slack off. when they realize they have a borderline GPA, they panic and often show some ability to do the work (whether it is enough to pass is another thing - and the 'i will now cheat" contingent make for a certain about of end-of-the-semester amused eye-rolling). Make the NFL pay for its own farm league and these kids would happily do what they want, I would have less completely apathetic kids in my classes, and the world would be a better place

/That being said, I have also had the joy of seeing some kid who is in college for athletics realize they are not as ignorant as they (and everyone else) thought they were, and also realize they had a knack for academics.
 
2012-08-08 10:17:09 PM

PowerSlacker: I'm referring to the douchebag Penn State fans that still don't get it. Those people deserve to lose their precious football program.


They get it just fine, it's people like you that don't. You don't burn an institution to the ground for the actions of a few people.
 
2012-08-08 10:22:01 PM

consider this: PowerSlacker: I'm referring to the douchebag Penn State fans that still don't get it. Those people deserve to lose their precious football program.

They get it just fine, it's people like you that don't. You don't burn an institution to the ground for the actions of a few people.


They are acting like the institution was burned to the ground when it was not.

By the way, the NCAA has a long history of punishing programs for the actions of a few people...and in every case prior to this one, their actions were less egregious than covering up a serial child rapist.
 
2012-08-08 10:23:43 PM

consider this: PowerSlacker: I'm referring to the douchebag Penn State fans that still don't get it. Those people deserve to lose their precious football program.

They get it just fine, it's people like you that don't. You don't burn an institution to the ground for the actions of a few people.


We did it to Japan. Don't see anybody complaining about that one, now do you?

/well, except the Pearl Harbor-hating demographic
 
2012-08-08 11:41:10 PM
The advertising angle is pretty interesting. Why is it such a crime if the QB of a top ranked team did a bunch of commercials? Also, anyone else kind of weirded out by how many Robert Griffin III commercials are on? I think he has more commercials than Peyton Manning currently (not all time, obviously).
 
2012-08-09 12:29:37 AM
The licensing their names is a real can of worms that could have big repercussions for all pro athletes. Remember that fantasy baseball leagues won the right to use player names and statistics for free. Jim Brown lost his case to get paid for being "RB #44" on the All-time Browns team in Madden. An artist won the right to sell paintings of Tiger Woods without any authorization because your own image can't be a trademark. Publicity rights are a real mess.
 
2012-08-09 02:07:46 AM

PowerSlacker: consider this: PowerSlacker: Is it too late to give those bastards a four year death penalty?

Yeah, lets punish an entire program for the actions of a few douchebags that are either dead, in prison for life or facing charges.

I'm referring to the douchebag Penn State fans that still don't get it. Those people deserve to lose their precious football program.

Great strawman as always though.


Who the hell isn't 'getting it'? Pretty much every single Penn State student/faculty member/alumnus is pissed as hell that Spanier, Schultz, and Curley behaved in such a mind-bogglingly stupid manner with regard to Sandusky's actions. And I don't even think I can describe in words just how angry I am at Sandusky for being such a god damned horrible creature and doing what he did and causing this mess.

The only douchebags here are the people who are trying to out-outrage each other and demanding pointless acts of contrition from innocent people. You act as if the criminal/civil court system is incapable of meting out justice in a rational and fair manner.
 
2012-08-09 02:12:01 AM
Back on topic:

I really wish that we would treat College level football as it really is: The NFL Minor Leagues.

It sickens me to see the athletes exploited the way they are, and I really get angry at the steps that colleges and the NCAA take to get around labor laws by calling these people 'students' and not 'employees'.

Of course, I also miss the old 'amateur' Olympics as well, so perhaps I'm just yelling at clouds.
 
2012-08-09 02:17:57 AM

consider this: UNC_Samurai: People keep bringing up the value of a scholarship, but when you consider the amounts of money the schools, conferences, and TV networks make off the backs of the kids, the difference is still exploitative.

I think it's time student athletes were unionized. There should be a collegiate athletes professional association.

Athletes are like unpaid interns, both sides benefit from the arrangement.


There are benefits, but it is not commensurate. The concept for an intern-employer relationship is that the employer gets a chance to preview a worker and gets a minimal amount of entry level work. The intern gets experience and a foot in the door that is expected to be worth at least as much in dollars as the benefit received by the employer.

For student athletes playing football, the medical risks alone often outweigh the potential benefit.
 
2012-08-09 07:05:55 AM

InfrasonicTom: This will help sentiment toward Penn State

[img.gawkerassets.com image 300x300]

/hot like a steamy shower


Is it too late to just wipe Penn State football off the face of the earth?

You people are despicable.
 
2012-08-09 07:12:51 AM

InfrasonicTom: This will help sentiment toward Penn State

[img.gawkerassets.com image 300x300]

/hot like a steamy shower


yep. the program deserved the death penalty. the ncaa per usual farked it up...
 
2012-08-09 09:10:49 AM
You don't burn an institution to the ground for the actions of a few people.

for the LAST TIME ... college students DO NOT REQUIRE a football program to graduate

/ concentrate on your GPA, not your outraged butthurt
 
2012-08-09 09:45:56 AM

Ennuipoet: So, reading the article, the crux of the arguments is the NCAA is getting rich off the players and the players should be getting a piece of the action. Fair enough. Though, when you really think about it, isn't a free ride through college worth quite a bit of money? I mean tuition, room, board at a State school is still twenty grand plus a year, a private school that can run fifty grand a year. Throw in the significant chance to turn pro upon graduation, that sounds like compensation to me.


That isn't even taking into account the ability to rape with impunity, and you just can't put a dollar value on that.


I think the issue is that you have colleges making MILLIONS of dollars off of the likeness of their athletes. This flies in the face of common law and statutory intellectual property law. But because they are "students" they are treated as if they have no rights. This law suit isn't about paying athletes for being athletes, but fairly compensating the athletes who the schools use to make even more money.
 
2012-08-09 10:18:29 AM

Ennuipoet: So, reading the article, the crux of the arguments is the NCAA is getting rich off the players and the players should be getting a piece of the action. Fair enough. Though, when you really think about it, isn't a free ride through college worth quite a bit of money? I mean tuition, room, board at a State school is still twenty grand plus a year, a private school that can run fifty grand a year. Throw in the significant chance to turn pro upon graduation, that sounds like compensation to me.


That isn't even taking into account the ability to rape with impunity, and you just can't put a dollar value on that.


Scholarship athletes already get a cash check every month.
 
2012-08-09 10:23:03 AM

consider this: UNC_Samurai: People keep bringing up the value of a scholarship, but when you consider the amounts of money the schools, conferences, and TV networks make off the backs of the kids, the difference is still exploitative.

I think it's time student athletes were unionized. There should be a collegiate athletes professional association.

Athletes are like unpaid interns, both sides benefit from the arrangement.


When did unpaid interns start getting medical insurance and a paycheck?
 
2012-08-09 11:20:03 AM

RichieLaw: Ennuipoet: So, reading the article, the crux of the arguments is the NCAA is getting rich off the players and the players should be getting a piece of the action. Fair enough. Though, when you really think about it, isn't a free ride through college worth quite a bit of money? I mean tuition, room, board at a State school is still twenty grand plus a year, a private school that can run fifty grand a year. Throw in the significant chance to turn pro upon graduation, that sounds like compensation to me.


That isn't even taking into account the ability to rape with impunity, and you just can't put a dollar value on that.

I think the issue is that you have colleges making MILLIONS of dollars off of the likeness of their athletes. This flies in the face of common law and statutory intellectual property law. But because they are "students" they are treated as if they have no rights. This law suit isn't about paying athletes for being athletes, but fairly compensating the athletes who the schools use to make even more money.


IIRC it's not just that their likeness is being used while they are students and therefore ineligible to get paid, but also AFTER THEY GRADUATE. Is this the lawsuit with Ed O'bannion (SP?) from UCLA attached? EA and the NCAA are (or were) using his likeness and number as part of an all-time UCLA team without paying him based on a contract that keeps the rights to all players in the hands of the NCAA regardless of their status as students.
 
Displayed 50 of 53 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report