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(Crap My Kids Watch)   Forget the right wing storyline, the best moral in "The Incredibles" comes from the villain   (crapmykidswatch.com) divider line 47
    More: Amusing, villains  
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11259 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 08 Aug 2012 at 1:09 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-08 02:56:26 PM  
5 votes:
It's actually a quietly subversive movie. If you think it through, the hero of the movie is Elastigirl, not Mr. Incredible. Behind all of the explosions and other distractions, the story is about Helen's realization that the shallow domesticity she has accepted is suffocating her as well as the rest of the family, and at the end of the movie she achieves happiness by accepting her true calling as more than merely a homemaker.

This is echoed by the fact that the second lead is Violet. Notice how much she grows through the course of the movie, while her brother is essentially unchanged. Not only does Helen save the imprisoned Mr. Incredible, but Violet releases the imprisoned family at the transition to Act 3, and saves everybody from the explosion that kills Syndrome.

Helen even has a Campbell "Hero's journey" going on (Edna is her Obi Wan), and at the end is very explicitly depicted as The Master of Two Worlds.

In short, it's a condemnation of traditional 1950s-style family values as being unsatisfying to women as well as damaging to their families.
2012-08-08 02:03:07 PM  
4 votes:
Poor, misunderstood Buddy.. who dares Mr. Incredible to kill his girlfriend, and later attempts to kidnap Mr. Incredible's *child* in order to raise it himself.

The blog is an interesting mental exercise, but the character of Buddy clearly has a deranged mind. Basically, he never grew up. Functional adults are able to move on from the ways they are wronged in childhood (as long as those wrongs aren't traumatizing). Buddy never lets go of being 'let down' by Mr. Incredible, who rightly doesn't want to involve a child in--and has to rescue him from--deadly situations. He can't comprehend that. Some genius.
2012-08-08 01:21:40 PM  
4 votes:
IIRC in the begining of the movie Mr. Incredible was pissed because Buddy kept showing up everywhere and got in the way and he signed everything Buddy gave him talked to him probably a billion times and he still got in the way. Im sure Mr. Incredible just had enough of dealing with him and kept trying to keep him out of harms way. So in order to save the kids life he had to be a dick to him cause being nice to him didnt work.
2012-08-08 12:20:27 PM  
4 votes:
Moral of the story: "No capes!"
2012-08-08 12:07:35 PM  
4 votes:
Your blog is an eyesore.
2012-08-08 03:41:21 PM  
3 votes:

czetie: In short, it's a condemnation of traditional 1950s-style family values as being unsatisfying to women as well as damaging to their families.


Interesting analysis. Although I think you're shortchanging the journey Bob Parr's character went through, with it's own Campbellian overtones: his throwing off of sloth and apathy, the underground cave where he receives wisdom from a dead comrade, his dark night of the soul when he thinks his wife and children have been killed, the realization that he can't kill Mirage because he is, in fact, a good man.
2012-08-08 02:43:53 PM  
3 votes:
He lost me when he tried to absolve Syndrome by saying "Syndrome didn't kill the other heroes, the robot did". When Mr. Incredible was scanning through the Kronos records several of the supers did defeat the robot, only Syndrome went back and upgraded it so the next time it could kill them. That's premeditated murder. Whether Syndrome was paying them to be in the position of being killed or not (and the way the robot was presented to them was that they were merely stopping an out-of-control machine), Syndrome's purpose was to create an unbeatable robot that only he could control so that if any of the remaining supers came around to stop it they would not be able to and would be killed in the process. Syndrome was methodical in locating and killing all of the supers he could find before hitting the jackpot with Mr. Incredible.

And Syndrome could also have recalled or detonated the missiles once he found out there were innocents on the plane. He didn't. There is no salvaging the character as being the "misunderstood good guy done wrong" in the film.
2012-08-08 02:07:49 PM  
3 votes:

thecpt: OK, but it's not like its expressing uber red themes or anything. 4th grade graduation is farking ridiculous.


Brad Bird is on record as saying it's not Randian, but that he has a problem with mediocrity being celebrated.
2012-08-08 01:55:01 PM  
3 votes:

LawrencePerson: "Syndrome Obama never actually kills anyone himself. His robot is guns are responsible for the deaths of about a dozen superheroes 300 Mexicans, but it's not as if he hunted them down in cold blood. They were offered good money for the opportunity to be heroes again (now an illegal activity), and they took it. Every last one turned out to be incapable of defeating the robot drug lords. They could have just stayed home. It's not as if Syndrome Obama unleashed the robot on a major city guns illegally and then claimed executive privilege on all the subpoenaed documents."


tl;dr, wrong tab.

GTFO and have a nice day
2012-08-08 01:34:58 PM  
3 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part. Great movie though.


You have to want it.

The Incredibles are a classic Nuclear Family -- ZOMG! Traditionalist propaganda. Right wing!
Helen Parr is a homemaker -- ZOMG! Chauvinist oppression. Right wing!
No openly gay characters -- ZOMG! Intolerance. Right wing!
Only the villain relies on technology -- ZOMG! Anti-science. Right wing!
etc.

@ Snapper Carr

Again, I think you have to want it. I can sort of see that article's "some people are just special" angle... maybe. But Rand might just as well have been offended by the vilification of Syndrome. He practically IS John Galt. "Within society, I'm prevented from achieving my true, glorious potential. I shall take my toys and go into hiding, where I can flourish in a land without all these 'rules'." It's really only when he creates a catastrophe as a false showcase for his merit that he steps out of bounds from a Randian perspective (IMHO).

/oh, and the article linked by subby is dumb.
2012-08-08 01:24:55 PM  
3 votes:
Mr. Incredible was on food stamps and welfare, did anyone help him out? No. No.
2012-08-08 01:13:41 PM  
3 votes:
That website is horrendous. Don't bother RTFA.
2012-08-09 01:02:44 AM  
2 votes:

xant: Snapper Carr: AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part.

It's pretty Randian if you want to look at it in that way.

Ayn Rand watches The Incredibles
--
Oy. Totally backwards.

The only Galt-figure in the Incredibles is Syndrome. He literally goes off to live in his own world, withdrawing his talents from society. Then he discovers he really needs the world after all, if only so they can exalt him, at which point he comes back and gets defeated. By society.

Yes, society. The Incredibles and Frozone actually implement the defeat of Syndrome, but they live in a society where Supers are as common as pro baseball players. Supers aren't Galt-figures; they don't withdraw their talents from an uncaring world. They're attention whores, and the world tells them to fark off because they're too much trouble to have around.

They come back and save the world when they're needed again, but who caused the trouble that the world needed saving? Syndrome. And Mr. Incredible created Syndrome by being a dick to a little kid. Throughout the movie we get the theme: If the people in power would stop being such careless dicks, the world would be just fine.

It's about the clearest rebuke to Objectivism I can think of in modern cinema.


The movie made it clear that Mr. Incredible had to deal with the kid's obsession in the past and wouldn't take "no" for an answer. When someone keeps annoying you despite repeated pleas to stop, you're going to snap at some point.
2012-08-08 11:36:16 PM  
2 votes:

Snapper Carr: AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part.

It's pretty Randian if you want to look at it in that way.

Ayn Rand watches The Incredibles

--
Oy. Totally backwards.

The only Galt-figure in the Incredibles is Syndrome. He literally goes off to live in his own world, withdrawing his talents from society. Then he discovers he really needs the world after all, if only so they can exalt him, at which point he comes back and gets defeated. By society.

Yes, society. The Incredibles and Frozone actually implement the defeat of Syndrome, but they live in a society where Supers are as common as pro baseball players. Supers aren't Galt-figures; they don't withdraw their talents from an uncaring world. They're attention whores, and the world tells them to fark off because they're too much trouble to have around.

They come back and save the world when they're needed again, but who caused the trouble that the world needed saving? Syndrome. And Mr. Incredible created Syndrome by being a dick to a little kid. Throughout the movie we get the theme: If the people in power would stop being such careless dicks, the world would be just fine.

It's about the clearest rebuke to Objectivism I can think of in modern cinema.
2012-08-08 03:01:24 PM  
2 votes:
Um, I'm pretty sure "if the hero had taken a minute to talk to the kid and hang out, the kid would have grown up to be an awesome scientist saving the world through his sweet tech instead of a crazy supervillain" was already one of, y'know, the major morals of the movie.

Vlad_the_Inaner: Snapper Carr: AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part.

It's pretty Randian if you want to look at it in that way.


How could anyone see any direct connection to Randianism in a simple kid movie like The Incredibles?

[i.imgur.com image 400x223]

[i.imgur.com image 640x1098]


You're aware that Atlas was a big deal in mythology long before Rand was a glint in her father's eye, right? And that that pose comes from a classical sculpture that's been ripped off more times than the Thinker?
2012-08-08 02:41:03 PM  
2 votes:
Why do there have to be messages? Why can't it just be a cool movie that's fun to watch?
2012-08-08 02:03:40 PM  
2 votes:
... Yeah, that's the definition of "Fifty pounds of bullshiat in a ten pound bag" right there. You could just as easily say that it's a left-wing movie because (to pull an example out of my ass) the subjugation of the supers mirrors the subjugation of gay people and other minorities in the US.
2012-08-09 08:04:05 AM  
1 votes:
JokerMattly:
It is entirely possible that Rand is right, a little.

Sure. Lots of people are a little bit right. Hitler gave us the Volkswagen.

Anyway the Incredibles is not a Randian fantasy... simply because the Randian ideal is to be a selfish dick, in a society of other selfish dicks. Yet Mr. Incredible and his family make sacrifices and risk death to protect and serve the common people, when it's needed. Even working at the insurance company he guards the weak. Ie. Atlas doesn't shrug.

3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-08-09 01:17:03 AM  
1 votes:
Look, it's adorable that so many think morality only swings to conservative or liberal viewpoints, but sometimes you need to take the political pacifier out of your butts and think about why you can't stop putting everything on a chart.
2012-08-08 11:41:41 PM  
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part. Great movie though.


Everything is a right-wing storyline.

For example, Dark Knight Rises was all about how the ignorant masses need the 1% to control their lives, lest they fall into chaos and ruin. Plebes wouldn't know what to do with fine art even if you made a reality TV show about it. Probably don't even know how a toilet works, would perch like eagles on the rim if they ever tried to use one.

It was a nice touch how they used the military to keep the proletarian uprising from spreading beyond the city, too.

/if you look for something hard enough, you will find it anywhere you want
2012-08-08 09:28:07 PM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: Snapper Carr: AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part.

It's pretty Randian if you want to look at it in that way.

Ayn Rand watches The Incredibles

I heard Karl Marx in my head when I watched Star Wars Episode One.


I heard string quartets in my head when I read Karl Marx, but it was just the violins inherent in the system.
2012-08-08 06:24:16 PM  
1 votes:

Barricaded Gunman: ranak: The best part of that movie is Ellen piloting the plane that's getting shot at with her kids inside.

Oh hell yes. Tough as nails, competent and dead sexy. I also loved it when Violet throws up the forcefield in the end that saves the whole family from an explosion, and Ellen purrs "That's my girl."


HELEN


/goddammit
2012-08-08 03:38:24 PM  
1 votes:
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but I thought the moral of the movie was to trust in other people to help you out?

By rejecting Buddy, Mr Incredible learns the consequences of dealing with things on his own and and then redeems himself by accepting the help of his family and friends.
2012-08-08 03:35:26 PM  
1 votes:

peterthx: gunga galunga: AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part. Great movie though.

There is no rightwing story line. It was one of several movies that the conservatives claimed as their own in 2004. They latched on to The Incredibles because it was pro-family and in a deleted scene, Helen defends being a stay-at-home mother. They also latched onto Team America, which makes a little more sense because the message of that movie was that pussies need dicks to take care of the assholes.

And YOU missed this part:

When everyone is special: NO ONE WILL BE.

Who coddles everyone, tells them they're still special? Who tries to eliminate grades and making people feel bad if they fail?


No, I didn't miss that. Nor did I miss Mr Incredible saying "you killed real supers so you can pretend to be one?"

Syndrome is not a villain for wanting to level the playing field. He was a villain for planning to kill off every single super (and he had already killed off at least a dozen already) to achieve his goal.
2012-08-08 03:31:55 PM  
1 votes:
He had one good point - "Early in the movie, Buddy tells Mr. Incredible: "Not every superhero has powers, you know. You can be super without them." I can't think of a better message to teach my children."

But then he had to try and make a whole blog around it and ruined it.
2012-08-08 03:25:24 PM  
1 votes:

rocky_howard: The "NO CAPES" segment was the only thing I hated about this movie.

Otherwise I love it to death.

WTF? Superman won't be killed by a farking turbine...

And characters that use capes are generally very durable to make it negligible.

Yeah, a turbine/revolving door/etc is going to stop/kill/defeat Superman, Thor, Gladiator, Sentry, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, etc.

The only major non-durable characters that use long capes are Batman, Doctor Doom and Magneto:

Magneto controls the electromagnetic spectrum and can augment his strength.
Doctor Doom wears a super armor and knows magic.
Batman is the Goddamn Batman.


In hand-to-hand conbat against single or multiple opponents, a cape is a stupid thing to wear. Enemies can use it to limit of direct your movement, entangle your limbs, and/or limit your vision.
2012-08-08 03:24:54 PM  
1 votes:
Yes, Syndrome was going to share his gifts with the masses. The same masses he was perfectly willing to endanger as a huge glory hog.
2012-08-08 03:24:51 PM  
1 votes:

rocky_howard: The "NO CAPES" segment was the only thing I hated about this movie.

Otherwise I love it to death.

WTF? Superman won't be killed by a farking turbine...

And characters that use capes are generally very durable to make it negligible.

Yeah, a turbine/revolving door/etc is going to stop/kill/defeat Superman, Thor, Gladiator, Sentry, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, etc.


Two things:

1) It was used as a humorous bit to help establish some Edna's character (which worked)

2) It's a throwback to "Watchmen" (IIRC... not 100% sure they ever copped to that in the commentary, but it was brought up in other interviews).

/not the worst scene in the whole movie, and offered an easy out/recall to deal with Syndrome in his final scene.
2012-08-08 03:16:10 PM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Um, I'm pretty sure "if the hero had taken a minute to talk to the kid and hang out, the kid would have grown up to be an awesome scientist saving the world through his sweet tech instead of a crazy supervillain" was already one of, y'know, the major morals of the movie.


Ummm, no. Mr Incredible had already done that many times over, but Buddy wanted to be nothing less than his sidekick. It took Buddy's repeated interference, which resulted in a supervillain getting away and endangered an entire passenger train, before Mr Incredible told him to fark off.
2012-08-08 03:13:29 PM  
1 votes:
Bull. The best part of that movie is Ellen piloting the plane that's getting shot at with her kids inside.
2012-08-08 02:57:16 PM  
1 votes:
So, Syndrome isn't responsible for the deaths of those supers... because his robot did the actual killing.

Stopped skimming right there.
2012-08-08 02:35:47 PM  
1 votes:

Wise_Guy: Oh for fark's sake

[fc07.deviantart.net image 600x548]


Rule 35: If it exists, there is a My Little Pony version of it.

No exceptions.
2012-08-08 02:24:30 PM  
1 votes:

TheOriginalEd: Seriously. dont be an apologist for that shiat. "I WANT TO HELP" Is in no way a substitute for "can help". Anyone who's had a toddler fark something up and go "IM HELPING" knows this. In my experience the help you didnt ask for causes more problems than the problem you were trying to solve. If buddy wanted to be helpful he would have offered his services. Not gotten in the way. As it was he was a self aggrandizing arrogant little jerk even as a child. Does Mr Incredible handle it in a really crappy way? Yeah but it plays into the whole theme of the "super heroes are people too" in the movie. It doesnt excuse buddy's actions.


In the commentary, Brad Bird said that was what he had in mind when he developed Buddy/Syndrome to give him a little bit of humanity. He meant well, but even as a kid it was clear that he had some serious mental issues. His obsession was Mr Incredible was unhealthy. And when he finally got rejected by him, his mind snapped. You feel for him a bit, but doesn't excuse his killing all those other supers.
2012-08-08 02:19:35 PM  
1 votes:
Seriously. dont be an apologist for that shiat. "I WANT TO HELP" Is in no way a substitute for "can help". Anyone who's had a toddler fark something up and go "IM HELPING" knows this. In my experience the help you didnt ask for causes more problems than the problem you were trying to solve. If buddy wanted to be helpful he would have offered his services. Not gotten in the way. As it was he was a self aggrandizing arrogant little jerk even as a child. Does Mr Incredible handle it in a really crappy way? Yeah but it plays into the whole theme of the "super heroes are people too" in the movie. It doesnt excuse buddy's actions.
2012-08-08 02:18:34 PM  
1 votes:
groppet: IIRC in the begining of the movie Mr. Incredible was pissed because Buddy kept showing up everywhere and got in the way and he signed everything Buddy gave him talked to him probably a billion times and he still got in the way. Im sure Mr. Incredible just had enough of dealing with him and kept trying to keep him out of harms way. So in order to save the kids life he had to be a dick to him cause being nice to him didnt work.

This. Kid was a hardcore stalker who just wouldn't take no for an answer and Mr. Incredible was a lot more patient with him than most of us would have been.
2012-08-08 02:06:18 PM  
1 votes:
Don't care what the hell your reason is or why...

If you're friggin' killing people that aren't attacking you...then you're being put down.

/simple
2012-08-08 01:58:05 PM  
1 votes:

Witty_Retort: Let me try:

A Leftist Intellectual, Syndrome, is out to give a chance for all people to be equal, by giving (selling, but mass production and IP infringement would drive costs down eventually) the "undeserving" super suits. He also tries to accomplish this by murdering the 1%'s he feel will further his goals.
The Great Right Hope manages to reinstate the status quo by destroying him with his own foofery (his cape), thus ensuring that the 99% cannot achieve the powers that would give them equality.

/am now depressed that I may think of this next time I watch it
//or, it could be a proof that an action movie could still have a good plot and characters and emotion


Now a little more accurate.
2012-08-08 01:51:52 PM  
1 votes:
"Syndrome Obama never actually kills anyone himself. His robot is guns are responsible for the deaths of about a dozen superheroes 300 Mexicans, but it's not as if he hunted them down in cold blood. They were offered good money for the opportunity to be heroes again (now an illegal activity), and they took it. Every last one turned out to be incapable of defeating the robot drug lords. They could have just stayed home. It's not as if Syndrome Obama unleashed the robot on a major city guns illegally and then claimed executive privilege on all the subpoenaed documents."
2012-08-08 01:49:31 PM  
1 votes:
It is entirely possible that Rand is right, a little. Not completely, because her philosophy taken in its entirety to its conclusion is insane. But some people are simply better than others. Life should not be about bringing those who do great things to the level of those who do not; it should be about helping those who lack the means to do great things but not the ambition.

/"Becoming rich" is not a great thing.
//Curing Cancer is
2012-08-08 01:32:36 PM  
1 votes:

MadCat221: The gist I got from that scene was that Buddy has been a pain in Mr. I's butt for a long time before that point.


Yes. very much so, Brody? Buddy, had been playing this tune for quite some time before it got to that. At that point, I'd say ejecting the brat from car was the most humane thing that could be done.

//Loved the Brody - Mallrats shout out
//NO CAPES!!
2012-08-08 01:27:35 PM  
1 votes:
Elastigirl gave me the weirdest boner. That's what I got out of it.
2012-08-08 01:26:43 PM  
1 votes:
The gist I got from that scene was that Buddy has been a pain in Mr. I's butt for a long time before that point.
2012-08-08 01:15:17 PM  
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part.


It's pretty Randian if you want to look at it in that way.

Ayn Rand watches The Incredibles
2012-08-08 01:12:40 PM  
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part. Great movie though.


This.
2012-08-08 01:11:03 PM  
1 votes:

Therion: Moral of the story: "No capes!"


THIS.

/DNRTFA
2012-08-08 12:46:17 PM  
1 votes:
Blame the lawyers, the same ones who would have gotten him off on an insanity defense if it wasn't for the unpleasant interaction of his cape with his plane's engine. If hadn't been for the lawsuits, just after the Mr. Incredible and "Buddy" encounter, that forced the super heroes into exile, one of the superheros probably would groomed Syndrome to be one of them. Also, he really should have been on Homeland Security's watch list long before he unleashed his robot killers.
2012-08-08 12:33:01 PM  
1 votes:
Rightwing storyline? I must have missed that part. Great movie though.
 
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