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(USA Today)   Federal court ruling declared up to 3,000 North Carolina prisoners did not commit the crimes for which they were sentenced. Too bad nobody in the government has bothered to tell those prisoners   (usatoday.com) divider line 119
    More: Asinine, United States federal courts, Justice Department, ACLU, North Carolina, innocent, federal public defender, United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, Circuit Court of Appeals  
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5365 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Aug 2012 at 3:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-08 12:10:48 PM
hey, it's not like anyone of those people are important, right? I mean...they're not rich! so what if they spend a couple/few years in jail for something that isn't a crime....i'm sure they were guilty of something.
 
2012-08-08 12:16:33 PM
Often, Justice lawyers have acknowledged that inmates did not commit a federal crime by having a gun but have argued they can't be released because of laws that strictly limit how prisoners can challenge convictions.

This must be the sort of thing that motivated H. L. Mencken to write "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".
 
2012-08-08 12:19:53 PM
If you don't support the state incarcerating innocent people then depriving them of their rights to appeal, then you're soft on crime.
 
2012-08-08 12:28:31 PM
Although Justice Department lawyers have conceded the men are "legally innocent," the agency has made little effort to notify them and has argued in court to keep them locked up

Why is it that prosecutors are more ethically corrupt than the criminals they prosecute?
 
2012-08-08 12:28:57 PM

Aarontology: If you don't support the state incarcerating innocent people then depriving them of their rights to appeal, then you're soft on crime.


and probably a commie/socialist to boot!

we have to CRUSH the weak! SMASH them down! the State is all! mindless obedience to authority is the ONLY way to maintain social order in the name of FREEDOM! if you let the innocent out of jail then we're all at risk!

/this is what authoritarians actually believe.
 
2012-08-08 12:29:32 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Although Justice Department lawyers have conceded the men are "legally innocent," the agency has made little effort to notify them and has argued in court to keep them locked up

Why is it that prosecutors are more ethically corrupt than the criminals they prosecute?


it helps if you have a god complex.
 
2012-08-08 12:29:49 PM
I can't think of an example where someone got elected by promising to release more prisoners.
 
2012-08-08 12:32:34 PM
Treat prisoners humanely? We don't do that in this country. That's being soft on crime.
 
2012-08-08 12:36:09 PM
It's a shame we couldn't have executed them and avoided all this tedious paperwork.
 
2012-08-08 12:39:14 PM

Weaver95: and probably a commie/socialist to boot!


The most terrifying thing is the state knew they were innocent but couldn't do anything because of those retarded tough on crime laws.

shiat like this is what people should remember when it comes to the death penalty.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-08 12:48:08 PM
Seems like they're screwed on procedural grounds. If they pleaded guilty without reserving the right to appeal the meaning of their criminal records, they admitted the fact that they had previously been convicted of a felony. If they pleaded not guilty or reserved the right to appeal, their convictions became final after the appeals court applied its old understanding of the law. Habeas petitions may not generally be used to make changes in the law retroactive.

Fark lawyers -- what would you do if you represented one of these prisoners, he had a final conviction more than a year old, and he had used up his first habeas petition on something frivolous?
 
2012-08-08 12:48:12 PM

GAT_00: Treat prisoners humanely? We don't do that in this country. That's being soft on crime.


Considering they were arrested for having a gun, I am quite surprised that you aren't calling for them to be given life imprisonment
 
2012-08-08 12:48:55 PM
At a cost of $47,000 a year per prisoner .. X3000 = $141,000,000 of annual spend. We can't let the fine people at the privately owned prisons lose that kind of money! Why do you hate capitalism so much ACLU??? Why do you hate 'merica!
 
2012-08-08 12:51:04 PM

cman: Considering they were arrested for having a gun, I am quite surprised that you aren't calling for them to be given life imprisonment


You're missing the broader point; that righeous laws/police/prosecutors/courts abuse their power and destroy peoples' lives.
 
2012-08-08 12:51:52 PM

cman: GAT_00: Treat prisoners humanely? We don't do that in this country. That's being soft on crime.

Considering they were arrested for having a gun, I am quite surprised that you aren't calling for them to be given life imprisonment


Why should that warrant life imprisonment?
 
2012-08-08 01:08:40 PM

dittybopper: Often, Justice lawyers have acknowledged that inmates did not commit a federal crime by having a gun but have argued they can't be released because of laws that strictly limit how prisoners can challenge convictions.

This must be the sort of thing that motivated H. L. Mencken to write "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".


Have you killed a prosecutor today? What's stopping you?
They clearly are the worst kind of humans.

/makes me sad to be an american
 
2012-08-08 01:09:26 PM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Treat prisoners humanely? We don't do that in this country. That's being soft on crime.

Considering they were arrested for having a gun, I am quite surprised that you aren't calling for them to be given life imprisonment

Why should that warrant life imprisonment?


My apologies, I was pulling your leg. Emotions do not transfer well over the internet
 
2012-08-08 01:12:02 PM

ZAZ: Seems like they're screwed on procedural grounds. If they pleaded guilty without reserving the right to appeal the meaning of their criminal records, they admitted the fact that they had previously been convicted of a felony. If they pleaded not guilty or reserved the right to appeal, their convictions became final after the appeals court applied its old understanding of the law. Habeas petitions may not generally be used to make changes in the law retroactive.

Fark lawyers -- what would you do if you represented one of these prisoners, he had a final conviction more than a year old, and he had used up his first habeas petition on something frivolous?


Easy enough, the federal judge should find the prosecutors/officials in contempt of court and lock them up until the 300+ are leased or reduced.
FUNNIER STILL, these judgments need to be expunged!!! good luck on getting that to happen.
 
2012-08-08 01:33:42 PM
Probably being held in CCA facilities, too

/they ain't gonna let go of money like that
 
2012-08-08 01:34:24 PM

Weaver95: hey, it's not like anyone of those people are important, right?



image.spreadshirt.com
 
2012-08-08 01:52:52 PM
wait, it's a gun crime? That umpossible because I have been assured over and over again that the ACLU doesn;t care about the 2nd Amendment and NEVER intervenes to help people wrongly deprived of their gun ownership rights
 
2012-08-08 02:01:11 PM
Although Justice Department lawyers have conceded the men are "legally innocent,"

Well if they're only LEGALLY innocent, I guess it's really just more of a technicality.
 
2012-08-08 02:03:06 PM

Sybarite: Although Justice Department lawyers have conceded the men are "legally innocent,"

Well if they're only LEGALLY innocent, I guess it's really just more of a technicality.


Yeah, but they were mostly still guilty of being blah.
 
2012-08-08 02:09:04 PM
If we had swift executions we wouldn't be embarrassed like this.

/stupid libs
 
2012-08-08 02:22:21 PM

namatad: dittybopper: Often, Justice lawyers have acknowledged that inmates did not commit a federal crime by having a gun but have argued they can't be released because of laws that strictly limit how prisoners can challenge convictions.

This must be the sort of thing that motivated H. L. Mencken to write "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".

Have you killed a prosecutor today? What's stopping you?
They clearly are the worst kind of humans.

/makes me sad to be an american


Why should that make you sad? Did I advocate killing anyone? Did Mencken?

The fact that this happened should royally piss you off because it's damned un-American. If keeping people in jail for crimes they did not commit is your idea of how America should work, then I am sad to call you my countryman.

And yes, prosecutors *CAN* be the worst sort of human, just like anyone else. Prosecutors can be like Mike Nifong, willing to ruin innocent lives for political gain. Just because they hold an office with great responsibilities does not mean that they should be trusted. In fact, that's precisely why they *SHOULDN'T* be trusted. That's not to say that all prosecutors are "bad", nor perhaps even most, but we've all heard the adage that power corrupts, and why should we think they are any different?

A simple Google search of "DA withheld evidence in case" pulls up 2.6 million hits. It's not like it's some very rare phenomenon. It happens, and we should be doing all that we can to make sure that prosecutors who engage in that sort of behavior are sanctioned strongly enough to deter that behavior.

Of course, though, you think that Andrei Vyshinsky and Roland Freisler were heroes just doing a thankless job, protecting the people, right?
 
2012-08-08 02:37:49 PM

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Treat prisoners humanely? We don't do that in this country. That's being soft on crime.

Considering they were arrested for having a gun, I am quite surprised that you aren't calling for them to be given life imprisonment

Why should that warrant life imprisonment?

My apologies, I was pulling your leg. Emotions do not transfer well over the internet


I was seriously wondering why you would think that of me.
 
2012-08-08 03:34:16 PM
Hey, they finally shut down our eugenics program within the last decade. At least they admit there was no crime committed.
 
2012-08-08 03:50:42 PM
I was hard on crime once. Now I'm a registered sex offender.
 
2012-08-08 03:50:44 PM
Run a poll in North Carolina (or pretty much anywhere) and ask them, should we:

1. Release them
2. Keep them in jail
3. Execute all of them, just to be sure

And you'll get more than 50% picking #3.

Most of the rest will pick #2.
 
2012-08-08 03:52:23 PM

Aarontology: If you don't support the state incarcerating innocent people then depriving them of their rights to appeal, then you're soft on crime.


We appealed for clemency, but the governor didn't want to appear soft on people who've been wrongfully imprisoned.
 
2012-08-08 03:57:10 PM
And it's stuff like this that make me oppose the death penalty.
 
2012-08-08 03:57:15 PM
Gotta do nasty things to keep the prison economy going.
 
2012-08-08 04:01:54 PM

doyner: cman: Considering they were arrested for having a gun, I am quite surprised that you aren't calling for them to be given life imprisonment

You're missing the broader point; that self-righteous laws/police/prosecutors/courts abuse their power and destroy peoples' lives.


FTFM
 
2012-08-08 04:02:27 PM

dittybopper: This must be the sort of thing that motivated H. L. Mencken to write "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".


I saw this quote somewhere else recently, so I decided to Wikipedia H. L. Mencken.

A keen cheerleader of scientific progress, he was very skeptical of economic theories and particularly critical of anti-intellectualism, bigotry, populism, Fundamentalist Christianity, creationism, organized religion, the existence of God, and osteopathic/chiropractic medicine.

Ah, a true Farker.
 
2012-08-08 04:06:50 PM
Is it better to incarcerate 1000's of innocent people to prevent someone who may have been guilty from going free?
Someone is saying yes.

At some point they will just throw the entire population in prison and make you prove you were innocent or wealthy in order to get out.
 
2012-08-08 04:10:01 PM

Somacandra: I can't think of an example where someone got elected by promising to release more prisoners.


Many have been elected for saving taxpayers money.

3,000 prisoners @ $40,000 per = $120,000,000 in taxpayer money wasted.
 
2012-08-08 04:11:48 PM

Kibbler: Run a poll in North Carolina (or pretty much anywhere) and ask them, should we:

1. Release them
2. Keep them in jail
3. Execute all of them, just to be sure

And you'll get more than 50% picking #3.

Most of the rest will pick #2.


And then ask them what Jesus would have answered.
 
2012-08-08 04:15:20 PM
WTF did I just read?
 
2012-08-08 04:18:31 PM
What they don't know won't hurt them?

It's not like they have any plans anyway.....
 
2012-08-08 04:18:39 PM

rev. dave: Is it better to incarcerate 1000's of innocent people to prevent someone who may have been guilty from going free?
Someone is saying yes.


Probably most are black and will vote for Obama.
 
2012-08-08 04:20:09 PM

palladiate: Hey, they finally shut down our eugenics program within the last decade. At least they admit there was no crime committed.


And GOD FORBID we give the victims any sort of reparations for being farked over by the state.
 
2012-08-08 04:26:28 PM
Often, Justice lawyers have acknowledged that inmates did not commit a federal crime by having a gun but have argued they can't be released because of laws that strictly limit how prisoners can challenge convictions.

Why do the prisoners have to challenge their convictions in these cases? There really isn't a path for Justice to pull a mea culpa and let these poor bastards out?
 
2012-08-08 04:27:48 PM
These men promptly escaped from a maximum-security stockade to the Atlanta underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as crack dealers. If you need crack... if no one else can help... if you can find them... maybe you can hire... the ATL Team.
 
2012-08-08 04:35:03 PM
3000? By North Carolina math that's really 5000 people.
 
2012-08-08 04:35:50 PM
Justice is a luxury item.
 
2012-08-08 04:37:27 PM
And THIS is the type of thing that makes me cringe every time someone wants to put in a 'Death Row Express Lane'. Too many people are in jail right now just because their lawyer sucked, the jury sucked, cops witheld evidence, cops falsified evidence, cops lied, the judge didn't know how to be a judge, the law was misinterpreted, etc...

This shiat needs to be fixed fast.
 
2012-08-08 04:43:14 PM
Pet peeve (yeah, I've got a whole zoo full):

"up to 3,000"

up to

UP TO


As in, theoretically, this is the upper bound. According to TFA, a few dozen have been identified.

So stop with the "we'll just take this as an exact number, plug it in to a formula that makes an assumption about cost per year to incarcerate that is also a farking joke because it includes capital costs and is double the incremental cost per prisoner and then we'll come up with a REALLY BIG NUMBER!!!"
 
2012-08-08 04:48:26 PM

MisterRonbo: Pet peeve (yeah, I've got a whole zoo full):

"up to 3,000"

up to

UP TO

As in, theoretically, this is the upper bound. According to TFA, a few dozen have been identified.

So stop with the "we'll just take this as an exact number, plug it in to a formula that makes an assumption about cost per year to incarcerate that is also a farking joke because it includes capital costs and is double the incremental cost per prisoner and then we'll come up with a REALLY BIG NUMBER!!!"


one is too many
 
2012-08-08 04:53:35 PM
They were normal going in to jail.......after this much time in prison do you really want them released to the general public?
 
2012-08-08 04:59:09 PM
FTA: "Instead of taking proactive steps to ensure that the innocent are freed, it has thrown up roadblocks," the ACLU said.

Of course. Those 3000 people are nothing but farking dollar signs to those prisons. Too bad those guys weren't rich or they would have gotten away with murder.
 
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