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(SFGate)   Breaststroke gold medalist: Yeah, I totally cheated, but so does everybody else, so it's okay. Ahh, the Olympic spirit, it really brings a tear to your eye don't it?   (blog.sfgate.com) divider line 34
    More: Sad, breaststrokes, gold medals, medalist, swimmers, olympics  
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4077 clicks; posted to Sports » on 08 Aug 2012 at 1:55 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-08 12:43:28 PM
So the rules were changed so the last guy who won a gold medal wasn't a cheater?! Just change the rules again.

See how easy that is?
 
2012-08-08 01:23:23 PM
He went against the rules, that much is sure, so he deserves to be stripped of his medal.

But, can someone please explain to me why there is this rule in effect?
 
2012-08-08 01:57:24 PM

cman: He went against the rules, that much is sure, so he deserves to be stripped of his medal.

But, can someone please explain to me why there is this rule in effect?


because if they wanted it to be the 200M dolphin kick, they'd call it that, as it is its a breast-stroke competition and so strick adherence to the from of the stroke is required.

/Once got dq'ed after setting the city record ( racing against future Olympian Brad Hall no less) for breatstroke because on one kick my big toe broke the water
 
2012-08-08 02:02:10 PM

Magorn: cman: He went against the rules, that much is sure, so he deserves to be stripped of his medal.

But, can someone please explain to me why there is this rule in effect?

because if they wanted it to be the 200M dolphin kick, they'd call it that, as it is its a breast-stroke competition and so strick adherence to the from of the stroke is required.

/Once got dq'ed after setting the city record ( racing against future Olympian Brad Hall no less) for breatstroke because on one kick my big toe broke the water


Not on this race, but, in other races, I've noticed a lot of "dolphin kicks", and I was wondering what the rules on that were, because in some races, it looked like they dolphin kicked for the first 5-10 meters off the walls.

It appears like with the way they turn around, you are underwater for a period of time, so, I guess you cannot do a strict "stroke" to get back to the surface. I'd think though that instead of a "number of dolphin kicks", it should be instead you have to be in your "stroke" by some "X meters" away from the wall, that seems like it would be much easier to police.
 
2012-08-08 02:02:17 PM
Coach Cartmanez reeeeeched these keeeeeds.
 
2012-08-08 02:04:26 PM
The gold medalist guy says "everyone does it", but the article makes no mention of anyone else doing it or not.

Research ... how the fark does it work?
 
2012-08-08 02:06:37 PM
This is why, as i was saying a coupel days ago, Michael Phelps is not the greatest olympian ever. half of the strokes are made up and have no utility to "swimming" per se. I said the test for swimming should be, you see an alligator or shark in the water, the stroke you use to hie your ass away is the one, ONE stroke they should use. no one sees an aligator and says "AAAHHHHHH! I BETTER BREASTROKE MY ASS OUTTA HERE!! or maybe the Butterfly! The least efficient, most physically demanding way to swim!"
 
2012-08-08 02:12:40 PM

rickythepenguin: This is why, as i was saying a coupel days ago, Michael Phelps is not the greatest olympian ever. half of the strokes are made up and have no utility to "swimming" per se. I said the test for swimming should be, you see an alligator or shark in the water, the stroke you use to hie your ass away is the one, ONE stroke they should use. no one sees an aligator and says "AAAHHHHHH! I BETTER BREASTROKE MY ASS OUTTA HERE!! or maybe the Butterfly! The least efficient, most physically demanding way to swim!"


Well I've found breatstroke to be incredibly useful when swimming in surf, especially across a strong current or riptide, (sidestroke works well for this too) and is less taxing and more efficent in that situation than the crawl so you can swim for much longer distances, Fly and crawl are nearly a tie as the fastest way to move throught he water (though as you say fly is by far the most taxing

Not at all sure waht backstroke is good for (other than the surivival variant which can keep your hear above water for hours with almost zero energy)
 
2012-08-08 02:14:07 PM
if he admitted to cheating strip him of his medal , that will teach him to keep his mouth shut. What a dumbass.

I did it because everyone does is not a valid defense.
 
2012-08-08 02:14:42 PM

Magorn: Well I've found breatstroke to be incredibly useful when swimming in surf, especially across a strong current or riptide, (sidestroke works well for this too) and is less taxing and more efficent in that situation than the crawl so you can swim for much longer distances, Fly and crawl are nearly a tie as the fastest way to move throught he water (though as you say fly is by far the most taxing


agreed; when i swim (river, ocean) i do breastroke. but don't act like it should be an olympic event.

it would be like, having Usain Bolt hop on one leg for 100m, 200m, or 400m and calling that an olympic event. or the 100m mosey (assist to Gary Larson), the 200 carioca, etc. lame.
 
2012-08-08 02:17:52 PM

rickythepenguin: it would be like, having Usain Bolt hop on one leg for 100m, 200m, or 400m and calling that an olympic event. or the 100m mosey (assist to Gary Larson), the 200 carioca, etc. lame.


Is there a variant of swimming that's like "fast walk" swimming?
 
2012-08-08 02:19:57 PM

Slow To Return: Is there a variant of swimming that's like "fast walk" swimming?



the backstroke?
 
2012-08-08 02:21:37 PM

rickythepenguin: Magorn: Well I've found breatstroke to be incredibly useful when swimming in surf, especially across a strong current or riptide, (sidestroke works well for this too) and is less taxing and more efficent in that situation than the crawl so you can swim for much longer distances, Fly and crawl are nearly a tie as the fastest way to move throught he water (though as you say fly is by far the most taxing

agreed; when i swim (river, ocean) i do breastroke. but don't act like it should be an olympic event.

it would be like, having Usain Bolt hop on one leg for 100m, 200m, or 400m and calling that an olympic event. or the 100m mosey (assist to Gary Larson), the 200 carioca, etc. lame.


Not familiar with the travishamockery that is "Olympic Race-Walking" I take it:
www.thewalkingsite.com
 
2012-08-08 02:22:42 PM
I've personally seen and stroked 40DDs, but 200ms?! Holy Fark!
 
2012-08-08 02:23:01 PM

Slow To Return: Is there a variant of swimming that's like "fast walk" swimming?



ha. the 100m dogpaddle....the 400m Marco Polo.....the 4x100 medley (dogpaddle, Marco Polo, swim with one arm tied to your body, kickboard swim)....the 200m "swim underwater but with one hand above your head like a shark fin....etc.

yes he's the most decorated but that's because there's so many swim events and relays....all using these non-utilitarian strokes.
 
2012-08-08 02:24:35 PM

cman: He went against the rules, that much is sure, so he deserves to be stripped of his medal.

But, can someone please explain to me why there is this rule in effect?


Breaststroke has incredibly convoluted rules. Check out the USA swimming website, they have a pdf of the rulebook online. Read the breaststroke section; you'll see what I mean.

I used to coach swimming and about once a year, there would be another notification about a "rule clarification" for breaststroke. I don't blame the swimmer, because breaststroke is a little like the tax code: it is so long and self contradictory that no one really knows what is legal and what isn't.

(Maybe that example was a little extreme, but you get the idea.)
 
2012-08-08 02:26:05 PM

Magorn: Not familiar with the travishamockery that is "Olympic Race-Walking" I take it:



no, i told my wife the smae thing about racewalking: made up sport is made up.
 
2012-08-08 02:28:23 PM

HMS_Blinkin: I used to coach swimming and about once a year, there would be another notification about a "rule clarification" for breaststroke



and didn't Olympics / FINA change the rule regarding -- to my point about the breastroke being slow -- how far you could glide underwater? I remember an olympics, possibly Atlanta, Athens, Sydney, who knows, where I think the Germans were just glding way farking far BECAUSE THEY TRAVEL FASTER UNDERWATER THAN PERFRORMING THE STROKE and then FINA or whoemver said you have to surface after like, 15m. or some shiat.

i remember a fake cotnroversy about that.

swimming is cool, i like it, i'm just saying enough with the infalted medal count for Phelps.
 
2012-08-08 02:33:56 PM

rickythepenguin: no, i told my wife the smae thing about racewalking: made up sport is made up.


I'm pretty sure made up sports account for a large chunk of all olympic medals.

Floor Exercise? Shooting? Fast walking? Dressage? Trampoline? Syncronized ANYTHING? Handball? (Okay, that one's pretty cool, so I'll just list Trampoline again) Whitewater Canoe? (Ok, that's cool too, so Trampoline one more time.)
 
2012-08-08 02:37:43 PM

rickythepenguin: enough with the infalted medal count for Phelps.


Unless Phelps also does archery, pole vault and uneven bars, this can be said about ANY athlete that competes in a sport that offers multiple medals.

At the very least, you can say Phelps has claimed gold in three straight Olympics, which is still impressive.
 
2012-08-08 02:38:17 PM

dletter: Magorn: cman: He went against the rules, that much is sure, so he deserves to be stripped of his medal.

But, can someone please explain to me why there is this rule in effect?

because if they wanted it to be the 200M dolphin kick, they'd call it that, as it is its a breast-stroke competition and so strick adherence to the from of the stroke is required.

/Once got dq'ed after setting the city record ( racing against future Olympian Brad Hall no less) for breatstroke because on one kick my big toe broke the water

Not on this race, but, in other races, I've noticed a lot of "dolphin kicks", and I was wondering what the rules on that were, because in some races, it looked like they dolphin kicked for the first 5-10 meters off the walls.

It appears like with the way they turn around, you are underwater for a period of time, so, I guess you cannot do a strict "stroke" to get back to the surface. I'd think though that instead of a "number of dolphin kicks", it should be instead you have to be in your "stroke" by some "X meters" away from the wall, that seems like it would be much easier to police.


Breaststroke; one dolphin kick. Other races: 15m of dolphin kicks.
 
2012-08-08 02:43:04 PM
I'll admit that I usually cheat while breaststroking. I'll throw in an occasional gentle squeeze or nipple pinch.
 
2012-08-08 02:49:29 PM

meanmutton: dletter: Magorn: cman: He went against the rules, that much is sure, so he deserves to be stripped of his medal.

But, can someone please explain to me why there is this rule in effect?

because if they wanted it to be the 200M dolphin kick, they'd call it that, as it is its a breast-stroke competition and so strick adherence to the from of the stroke is required.

/Once got dq'ed after setting the city record ( racing against future Olympian Brad Hall no less) for breatstroke because on one kick my big toe broke the water

Not on this race, but, in other races, I've noticed a lot of "dolphin kicks", and I was wondering what the rules on that were, because in some races, it looked like they dolphin kicked for the first 5-10 meters off the walls.

It appears like with the way they turn around, you are underwater for a period of time, so, I guess you cannot do a strict "stroke" to get back to the surface. I'd think though that instead of a "number of dolphin kicks", it should be instead you have to be in your "stroke" by some "X meters" away from the wall, that seems like it would be much easier to police.

Breaststroke; one dolphin kick. Other races: 15m of dolphin kicks.


That is interesting... so, it is the way I said it should be for every stroke EXCEPT the breaststroke.... is there a technical reason for that?
 
2012-08-08 03:00:36 PM
Simple solution, change the rule to say the only type of kick you are allowed to do is the breaststroke kick. How hard is that?
 
2012-08-08 03:23:29 PM

rickythepenguin: agreed; when i swim (river, ocean) i do breastroke. but don't act like it should be an olympic event.


We already all agreed that track should add running backwards, crab walking, and bear crawling at their current distances and that everyone would watch the IM.
 
2012-08-08 03:37:01 PM

dletter: Breaststroke; one dolphin kick. Other races: 15m of dolphin kicks.

That is interesting... so, it is the way I said it should be for every stroke EXCEPT the breaststroke.... is there a technical reason for that?


Breaststroke is the only stroke where you can do a full pull and recover of the arms underwater, while all the other events are all based on kicking until you are ready to break the surface.
 
2012-08-08 03:41:42 PM
The dolphin kick is very quick compared to a number of strokes.

Watch this Aquaman dolphin kick the length of the pool in a race and beat all the backstrokers
 
2012-08-08 09:10:41 PM

grimlock1972: if he admitted to cheating strip him of his medal , that will teach him to keep his mouth shut. What a dumbass.

I did it because everyone does is not a valid defense.


Cool, then we can go revoke all the Super Blowl wins of the teams who committed penalties that were not called. Because, you know, that's cheating
 
2012-08-08 09:53:08 PM
short story: +1 for what most others here are saying.

long story: Racing is something quite close to the core of the human psyche, speed + an arbitrary technical requirement is not. The only race in swimming is freestyle, the others are just novelty events IMHO. Same with race walking which is won by the guy that cheats the most, without quite getting caught.

While I'm at it, swimming routinely features athletes that bring home a swag of medals. Its pretty clear that the program has been bloated to a bunch of events that are only marginally different from each other.
 
2012-08-08 10:06:16 PM

lharvey: While I'm at it, swimming routinely features athletes that bring home a swag of medals. Its pretty clear that the program has been bloated to a bunch of events that are only marginally different from each other.


Swimming has added two events since 1968: the 50m freestyle and the 10km open water swim. Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte never medalled in either of those events.

Don't let facts get in the way of your rant though.
 
2012-08-08 10:45:06 PM

PowerSlacker: Don't let facts get in the way of your rant though.


Did I say it was new phenomenon?

If it was just those 2 guys you could attribute it to someone just being an exceptional athlete (as they no doubt are). But it's every olympics and world championship.
 
2012-08-08 10:55:38 PM

lharvey: PowerSlacker: Don't let facts get in the way of your rant though.

Did I say it was new phenomenon?

If it was just those 2 guys you could attribute it to someone just being an exceptional athlete (as they no doubt are). But it's every olympics and world championship.


The program hasn't been bloated in 44 years.

You're crying about something that's been a fact of Olympic life for generations.
 
2012-08-08 11:15:18 PM
The rule has been 15m for a long time. Pretty sure it was added in the late 80s, and it was due (at least in part) to American David Berkoff. At least that's the story I always heard. I was pretty young at the time, though, so what do I know? The rule's been in place as long as I can remember, and I started swimming in '88.

rickythepenguin:
and didn't Olympics / FINA change the rule regarding -- to my point about the breastroke being slow -- how far you could glide underwater? I remember an olympics, possibly Atlanta, Athens, Sydney, who knows, where I think the Germans were just glding way farking far BECAUSE THEY TRAVEL FASTER UNDERWATER THAN PERFRORMING THE STROKE and then FINA or whoemver said you have to surface after like, 15m. or some shiat.

i remember a fake cotnroversy about that.

swimming is cool, i like it, i'm just saying enough with the infalted medal count for Phelps.

 
2012-08-08 11:33:03 PM
This has been a gray area for decades. I was a breaststroker for the bulk of my career (US National team '98 & '99), and we used to push the boundaries with one big dolphin "kick" off the wall, which was deemed legal as long as it was a total body undulation occurring as part of the initial pull in the underwater pull-out rather than a separate kick. So, the officials had to decide if what they saw was a body undulation or a kick--definitely a gray area which led to a lot of inconsistent DQ's and a significant amount of butthurt from both sides.

Back then, there were also quite a few swimmers experimenting with a body undulation/dolphin kick at the tail end of every stroke. Couple that with the over-the-water recovery that was briefly allowed by USS, and the event started to resemble the butterfly more than a traditional breaststroke. For a while there, it felt like the rules were changing significantly every season. Those of us who were reluctant to adopt the new techniques were left in the dust, while those who embraced them often had to revise their stroke mechanics every year just to stay within the changing rules.

Interesting to see where the sport has gone since I left. I had no idea even one dolphin kick was allowed in breaststroke until I read the article. I just assumed it was more of the same old "whatever we can get away with."
 
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