skullkrusher: nice attempt to throw people of the trail but it's pretty obvious you and tony are the same guy. One idiot coming from the right, the other coming from the left. Tricksy, but I'm on to you

/vote Republican

Hey skullkrusher! How you been? Back from your training at Hamburger University?

Your candidate has been pretty funny recently, hope you have kept up. Did you see him shopping?

Dusk-You-n-Me: ROMNEY 2012 - REARRANGE YOUR FINANCES

It's called being responsible for my own health and placing an importance on it above other things.

Romney 2012: YOUR NEXT

ManRay: farkityfarker: Taking a person's job and health insurance away does cause them to die.

Nope. Not a fact.

Many people lose their job and/or do not have healthcare and do not die. Not having healthcare does not cause people to die.

So, your argument is that because some people live, no one could possibly die?

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Cletus C.: Is the message that no business, government agency or contractor should ever shut down because women will die?

Tardish.

No, that we should have a proper safety net, and employers should care about their employees.

OK then, the message of the ad is that Romney is responsible for that woman dying because he did not provide a safety net. Summabiatch.

Obama did kill Osama Bin Laden, so there's that.

nyseattitude: Bontesla: I_C_Weener: tenpoundsofcheese: Dinki: Nice to see the dolt deliberately misinterpret the commercial to create some GOP outrage. The commercial quite rightly shows the consequences of plant closing and the very real effects those closings have on average Americans. .

How? The family still had health insurance from the wife's job. What "real effect" are you referring to?

If this is true, then the ad is a lie. It is saying Romney's decision cost her health insurance when she still had it. But, firing people is still overall an action that does lead to people losing health insurance even if the action of firing the person is necessary for the business to survive.

That said, Bain has acted in its own interest as a corporation should. And it's CEO did as well. I'm hoping that Romney will continue to act in the best interests of his new "corporation", the United States when/if he becomes CEO of it. Just like he did when he was CEO of the Olympics and of Massachusetts.

But, I don't know if Cheese is correct in his assertion.

Cheese is blanketing himself in partial information. From the husband's description of the plan, it sounds like the plan was incredibly inadequate. There are many plans that don't cover major medical. It sounds like hers was one of them. Regardless, she lost her insurance shortly after they lost his.

In all reality it was probably some type of Gap insurance to cover what her husbands insurance didn't. Nobody is going to pay for two full coverage plans, it wouldn't make any sense at all.

People do all of the time because most insurance plans are inadequate.

So, if you have a low lifetime cap then you may want a secondary policy just in case you exceed your primary's cap.

There are some insurance plans with low patient responsibility for doctors visits and high patient responsibility for hospital visits. If your spouse is offered one in which the opposite is true then it may make sense for your family to pay for both plans.

There are also forms of supplemental insurance (like Aflac) that people pair with a traditional health plan.

Cletus C.: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Cletus C.: Is the message that no business, government agency or contractor should ever shut down because women will die?

Tardish.

No, that we should have a proper safety net, and employers should care about their employees.

OK then, the message of the ad is that Romney is responsible for that woman dying because he did not provide a safety net. Summabiatch.

The message of many of the Bain attacks is that Romney puts profit for the small group of super wealthy above taking care of the larger group of middle class people. This seems to be in that same vein.

ManRay: shotglasss: This guy killed his own wife by not taking get to a doctor. Period.

The guy may or may not have gotten a raw deal from Bain, but ultimately a person's responsibility for their healthcare falls on them. That includes taking action even when it is not easy. Why didn't he sign up for COBRA?

Perhaps the parental responsibility was focused on sacrificing their health so that the kids were not homeless. Their actions shouldn't be characterized as irresponsible given that you know nothing of the choices they were offered.

what_now: ManRay: The guy may or may not have gotten a raw deal from Bain, but ultimately a person's responsibility for their healthcare falls on them. That includes taking action even when it is not easy. Why didn't he sign up for COBRA?

When I was 23 and I lost my job I couldn't get COBRA because 1) I couldn't afford it and 2) I was denied due to per-existing conditions.

A few months later I got hit by a drunk driver who took off. Luckily, the police caught him, or I would have had to claim bankruptcy before my 24th birthday.


I should have done....what? differently?

That's awful. Sorry to hear that :/

My dad died in the hospital's assisted living facility 30 days after he arrived. The medical bills totaled more than $1,000,000 for inadequate care.

More_Like_A_Stain: And that is the difference between your situation, and many others less fortunate. The very fact that you had the capability to "rearrange" things during a period of no income is an advantage that people living paycheck to paycheck do not have. To a single mother, or an unemployed vet that $500 might just be the difference between having electricity for the month. Or losing her apartment. Or a needed car repair in order to make it to work everyday.

Yes. Shame on you for your insensitivity to the plight of those less fortunate than you. Through some random confluence of events you found yourself able to deal with unexpected hardship that had nothing to do with your own efforts and diligence. How dare you suggest that you are better than other people? You recieve no credit for this, since it was not something YOU did that put you in a position to be able to handle a hard time. Rather, it was likely do to your privelage and good fortune, not the fruit of your own labors. We know this becasue you were able to do so, while others are not. Therefore, your situation could not possibly have been as bad as that of others who were not able to do so. That's just logic.

Headso: Prob couldn't do that back then because the ads would be directly linked to the candidate and that would be in bad form.

Why would it be acceptable now? Is it in better form today?

skullkrusher: NateGrey: Hey NateGrey: Your candidate has been pretty funny recently, hope you have kept up. Did you see him shopping?

skullkrusher! How you been? Back from your training at Hamburger University?

I don't get it. Don't bother explaining. I am sure it wasn't funny.

NateGrey: Your candidate has been pretty funny recently, hope you have kept up. Did you see him shopping?

lulz he thinks he's people!

/vote Republican

lol dont want to strain your brain there, its hard enough on you pulling fries out of a fryer.

Keep on trolling my Republican friend, what else can you do, defend Romney? LOL

I_C_Weener: what_now: When I was 23 and I lost my job I couldn't get COBRA because 1) I couldn't afford it and 2) I was denied due to per-existing conditions.

Number 2 is false. COBRA is continuation of the existing coverage. There would be no pre-existing condition that wasn't already pre-existing the employer paid portion.

But yes, I understand 1. Private insurance plans are more expensive than COBRA though, at least for equal coverage. And then you do have pre-existing coverage issues...maybe.

Yes and no. COBRA can deny for pre-existing conditions and have done so many times. They can also deny coverage because you filed a cancer claim. Your denial will come with a generic response about how you didn't disclose something, seek treatment soon enough, or were a day late on your payment. Anyway, they're sure it's your fault.

BojanglesPaladin: Headso: Prob couldn't do that back then because the ads would be directly linked to the candidate and that would be in bad form.

Why would it be acceptable now? Is it in better form today?

Now you have plausible deniability as a candidate and when the SuperPAC ads get really negative you can look good by denouncing the ad after it played for 2 weeks in a swing state.

BojanglesPaladin: kapaso: what_now: ManRay: The guy may or may not have gotten a raw deal from Bain, but ultimately a person's responsibility for their healthcare falls on them. That includes taking action even when it is not easy. Why didn't he sign up for COBRA?

When I was 23 and I lost my job I couldn't get COBRA because 1) I couldn't afford it and 2) I was denied due to per-existing conditions.

If you had insurance previously, and maintined coverage you should not have been denied coverage. Even in the old system, the pre-existing condition could only be applied if there was a lapse in coverage.

(We had to pay COBRA and take out a personal policy for a while when my wife was between employment to avoid any lapse becasue she has had heart surgery).

There have been many cases in which COBRA denied based on preexisting conditions. You can Google it if you'd like. I just did. I'd link you but I'm on my phone.

ManRay: what_now: When I was 23 and I lost my job I couldn't get COBRA because 1) I couldn't afford it and 2) I was denied due to per-existing conditions.

A few months later I got hit by a drunk driver who took off. Luckily, the police caught him, or I would have had to claim bankruptcy before my 24th birthday.


I should have done....what? differently?


So your COBRA extension of your existing plan was denied because of pre-existing conditions?

When I was laid off, I paid that $500 a month bill until I got a new job precisely because I did not want to lose my coverage due to pre-existing conditions. It sucked, but I could not afford not to. I rearranged my finances and made it work.

And if I had not paid into COBRA and gotten sick, I sure as hell would not have blamed my former boss. Because that is stupid.

You've still missed the point by a mile.

skullkrusher: When will you realize it is possible for both you AND Romney to be contemptible idiots?

tony41454: OBAMA SUPERPAC RELEASES ONE OF THE MOST UGLY, MISLEADING ADS IN CAMPAIGN HISTORY

by JOHN SEXTON
(excerpt)

In 2001, Joe Soptic loses his job when Bain closes the plant. His wife still has insurance, though, through her employer, Saver's thrift store. A year later, Romney formerly leaves Bain. And it's that year, 2002, or perhaps 2003, Soptic tells CNN, that his wife leaves her job because of an injury. That's when she became uninsured without fallback insurance from her husband. A few years later, in 2006, she goes to the hospital is diagnosed with cancer and dies just days later.

That seems to be exactly what the ad says.

Husband is fired while Romney is at Bain.
Woman is uninsured when she gets cancer because her husband was fired.
Woman dies, likely because she was uninsured when she first got the cancer.

Which of these are you disputing? I thought it was clear that's what they were saying.

Bontesla: You've still missed the point by a mile.

Especially considering the wife resisted going to the hospital for her weight loss specifically because they had no insurance and couldn't handle the costs for a shot in the dark.

Bontesla: There have been many cases in which COBRA denied based on preexisting conditions. You can Google it if you'd like. I just did. I'd link you but I'm on my phone.

I don't doubt you. There are any number of stories where COBRA and other carriers denied coverage in error. There is an awful and painful process by which it can be appealed and I undersdtand COBRA is impossible.

But they aren't supposed to, and are not technically allowed to, except under specific circumstances, like you outright lied on your enrollment or something. That's the cause of a number of lawsuits.

It's also one fo the good things ACA despite it's garbage pile of fail corrected. (though it did so imperfectly).

ManRay: Dusk-You-n-Me: ROMNEY 2012 - REARRANGE YOUR FINANCES

It's called being responsible for my own health and placing an importance on it above other things.

RMONEY 2012: THE ACCIDENT OF BIRTH HEALTH CARE PLAN

If you're accidentally born without certain opportunities then you may not be eligible for health care

what_now: You're right. I should have saved more money by age 23 to deal with the fact that I had cancer, a job loss, and terrible car accident in a 22 month period.

That's terrible. Did I mess the part where you said you had cancer before you lost your job and got hit by a car?

Lsherm: El_Frijole_Blanco: The ad does not say Romney killed the guys wife it says he does not give a flying Fark what his profit margin means to your family

Based on the "logic" this ad uses: this guy could just as well blame the management of the steel mill that caused it to be unprofitable either profitable, but not profitable enough, or worth more dead than alive, which caused Bain to come in and make it profitable again. Why didn't the management of that steel company care enough to keep that mill open and save that man's wife?

FTFY

Wendy's Chili: The company was profitable until Bain loaded it up with debt.

I'm honestly curious as to how stuff like this works. It sounds completely sociopathic and/or evil. Got any good links?

The Jami Turman Fan Club: tony41454: OBAMA SUPERPAC RELEASES ONE OF THE MOST UGLY, MISLEADING ADS IN CAMPAIGN HISTORY

by JOHN SEXTON
(excerpt)

In 2001, Joe Soptic loses his job when Bain closes the plant. His wife still has insurance, though, through her employer, Saver's thrift store. A year later, Romney formerly leaves Bain. And it's that year, 2002, or perhaps 2003, Soptic tells CNN, that his wife leaves her job because of an injury. That's when she became uninsured without fallback insurance from her husband. A few years later, in 2006, she goes to the hospital is diagnosed with cancer and dies just days later.

That seems to be exactly what the ad says.

Husband is fired while Romney is at Bain.
Woman is uninsured when she gets cancer because her husband was fired.
Woman dies, likely because she was uninsured when she first got the cancer.

Which of these are you disputing? I thought it was clear that's what they were saying.

Husband is fired while Romney is at Bain
Nope. Romney left day to day operations at Bain in 1999. Husband is laid off by Obama campaign bundler Lavine in 2001.

Woman is uninsured when she gets cancer because her husband was fired.
Nope. Woman is uninsured (after having her own insurance) because of the priorities she and her husband set when their situation changed when he was fired by Obama bundler Lavine. Something that millions upon millions of Americans are going through right now.

Woman dies, likely because she was uninsured when she first got the cancer.
Nope. Woman dies because, although she was showing symptoms of serious illness, she and her husband chose to not hit the Golden Corral budget to find the $150 they needed to go see a doctor after he lost his job when he was fired by Obama bundler Lavine. Or, if they were feeling really cheap, to go to the emergency room for a diagnosis (where by law she could not have been turned away). And even if she had received an early diagnosis, there is no way to know how things might have turned out. But in either case, the choices they made led to the outcome, even if the husband had been fired by Obama bundler Lavine.

Which of these facts would you care to dispute?

That's nothing, the last Republican in the White House killed thousands of Americans...

skullkrusher: NateGrey: skullkrusher: When will you realize it is possible for both you AND Romney to be contemptible idiots?

[images.cheezburger.com image 500x380]

nope. You are a troll though. Not even a funny one.

/vote Republican

lol What are you, 5? Oh you are a Republican, explains the mental deficiency.

Let me help you: "No, YOU are a troll. Not even a smart one."

/Vote Republican

Ant: I'm honestly curious as to how stuff like this works. It sounds completely sociopathic and/or evil. Got any good links?

HLMGTFY.

Otto_E_Rodika: Nope. Romney left day to day operations at Bain in 1999. Husband is laid off by Obama campaign bundler Lavine in 2001.

Cite?

BojanglesPaladin: Otto_E_Rodika: Nope. Romney left day to day operations at Bain in 1999. Husband is laid off by Obama campaign bundler Lavine in 2001.

Cite?

Oops

Maybe at the next Martha's Vineyard retreat, Obama can ask Lavine about why he kills steel workers wives while they walk the back nine.

what_now: ManRay: Dusk-You-n-Me: ROMNEY 2012 - REARRANGE YOUR FINANCES

It's called being responsible for my own health and placing an importance on it above other things.

You're right. I should have saved more money by age 23 to deal with the fact that I had cancer, a job loss, and terrible car accident in a 22 month period.

Too bad I didn't chose to have wealthier parents. That would have been the smart thing to do.


I am going to ignore your snark and assume you didn't sit around blaming your former boss for your cancer or car accident. I don't know the specifics of your situation, but it sounds like you had it rougher than I did. I was 26 and had some money saved for a car, but that was it.

I was not happy about my situation, but I did what I had to do partially because I could. People that can do something should, even if they are getting a raw deal instead of waiting around for someone to save them. If for no other reason than it will make sure those that are really unable to help themselves get the most of the available resources.

The Jami Turman Fan Club

tony41454: OBAMA SUPERPAC RELEASES ONE OF THE MOST UGLY, MISLEADING ADS IN CAMPAIGN HISTORY

by JOHN SEXTON
(excerpt)

In 2001, Joe Soptic loses his job when Bain closes the plant. His wife still has insurance, though, through her employer, Saver's thrift store. A year later, Romney formerly leaves Bain. And it's that year, 2002, or perhaps 2003, Soptic tells CNN, that his wife leaves her job because of an injury. That's when she became uninsured without fallback insurance from her husband. A few years later, in 2006, she goes to the hospital is diagnosed with cancer and dies just days later.

That seems to be exactly what the ad says.

Husband is fired while Romney is at Bain.
Woman is uninsured when she gets cancer because her husband was fired.
Woman dies, likely because she was uninsured when she first got the cancer.

Which of these are you disputing? I thought it was clear that's what they were saying.

I take it that reading comprehension is not one of your strong points.

bartink: Cat Food Sandwiches: Absolutely. My employer provides a Cadillac heath insurance plan, yet one of my co-workers, (who got an annual physical) suddenly was diagnosed with stage four and was dead within a year. Having insurance does not prevent cancer.

And with this anecdote, he has demonstrated that all those researchers with their high brow data are wrong.

All righty then.

I'm sure you have lost friends and relatives to cancer. How many of them did not have insurance?