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(NBC News) NewsFlash Uncle Fester pleads guilty in Tucson shootings, gets life imprisonment   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 200
    More: NewsFlash, Tucson shooting, life imprisonments, Jared Loughner, Tucson, Southern Arizona, Courts of Arizona, death penalty, Gabrielle Giffords  
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14308 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Aug 2012 at 10:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-08-07 04:33:45 PM
i604.photobucket.com

Shocked an inconsolable.
 
2012-08-07 04:37:59 PM
On one cynical hand, this saves the state and the taxpayers loads of money for a lengthy trial. On the other - also cynical - hand, that he avoids the death penalty and gets to live on the taxpayer's dime forever is a disappointment.

Also, under what circumstances would he get to retain ownership of the guns he used? Did the police not confiscate them?
 
2012-08-07 04:38:21 PM
Should he have been allowed to plead guilty? He was diagnosed as a Schizophrenic right after everything happened.
 
2012-08-07 04:51:38 PM
I hope she enjoys her time behind bars. What a sheila.
 
2012-08-07 04:53:01 PM
I'm confused, they can admit you were not of sane mind at the time of a crime, than commit you. If after commitment you regain use of your mental facilities they can charge you for your crimes?

I'm not saying he should be out walking the streets but unless they can show actions he took while sane, like stopping doctor proscribed medication, played a role in his later actions I fail to see the justice in charging him and shifting him into general population prison
 
2012-08-07 04:53:07 PM

Nadie_AZ: I hope she enjoys her time behind bars. What a sheila.


i627.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-07 05:25:51 PM

zedster: I'm confused, they can admit you were not of sane mind at the time of a crime, than commit you. If after commitment you regain use of your mental facilities they can charge you for your crimes?

I'm not saying he should be out walking the streets but unless they can show actions he took while sane, like stopping doctor proscribed medication, played a role in his later actions I fail to see the justice in charging him and shifting him into general population prison


You are never absolved from your actions due to your mental state, the mental state at the time of the crime will affect the punishment and potential guilty/not guilty options. In this case, the competency comes into play in two ways:

First, the court has to ensure that the defendant is competent to stand trial. This means that the defendant's mental abilities are such that he both understands and is able to assist in his defense. The courts will not allow the state to continue to prosecute someone who cannot even understand what is going on. This doesn't mean they get out but will spend a long time in a mental facility until they can understand what is occurring to them again. This is just as it helps ensure that while the person may not have understood the crime they committed, they at least understand the process that they go through and hopefully can provide facts to their attorney's to assist in their defense.

The second issue of competency involves the mental state at the time the crime was committed, a distinctly different issue than the first. Dealing with this question usually revolves around the "guilt" or not guilt (juries never declare someone innocent) of the crime. When the competency issue is raised about the crime the defense can open the door to guilty but mentally ill and not-guilty by reason mental illness defenses.

The difference? A person guilty but mentally ill is sentenced the same as anyone but the judge can prescribe a treatment program while they're in jail (i.e. send them to the medial prison for the duration). Someone not-guilty by reason of mental illness is sent to a medical facility for treatment until they can be made 'sane' again, at which point they are released. However, this detention is indefinite until the person is declared 'sane'. The reasoning is to protect both them and the public as you can't simply release a mentally insane person into the public where they are known to commit criminal acts while under their mental deficiency.
 
2012-08-07 05:39:45 PM
 
2012-08-07 05:42:48 PM
Just put a bullet in his head and be done with it.

Taxpayers have to pay for this loser for the next 50-60yrs? fark that.

Let's start taking out the trash. There's probably some crazy chick out there right now that wants to have his baby and continue this cycle.
 
2012-08-07 08:44:35 PM

violentsalvation: Seems like forever ago.


In retrospect, El_Frijole_Blanco totally called that one. :-(
 
2012-08-07 09:02:13 PM

zedster: I'm confused, they can admit you were not of sane mind at the time of a crime, than commit you. If after commitment you regain use of your mental facilities they can charge you for your crimes?


They can charge you with whatever they want. He pleaded guilty - a jury didn't have to find him so.

If he'd continued to hold to his `not guilty` plea I think there's a solid chance a jury would have agreed. The guy who had to be force-medicated to achieve competency -- the guy they've been force-feeding anti-psychotic drugs -- probably wasn't sane at the time of the murders.

'course, there's a chance all twelve jury members would have condemned him as guilty, too. That would have risked the death penalty.

Whether his plea today was because of genuine remorse now that he realizes what happened or a legal strategy to avoid the risk of the death penalty isn't relevant once he changed his plea. Jury's not part of the process anymore. Show's over.
 
2012-08-07 10:19:21 PM
I was wondering if this would get a thread.

This is a good outcome. He understands what he did, agrees to not be a risk to society again, and will at least have a chance to have the most normal life he can while he spends the rest of it in prison. I don't agree with the death penalty for someone who was so obviously sick, and I don't favor freeing him, so this seems like the best possible deal for everyone.
 
2012-08-07 10:19:32 PM
News Flash? I read about this hours ago.
 
2012-08-07 10:19:46 PM
I just wanted to say that I really love the fact that we keep giving these "celebrity murderers" pop culture based names.
 
2012-08-07 10:19:47 PM
Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.
 
2012-08-07 10:21:25 PM
Hell can wait. For now let him experience Hell on Earth. And by Hell on Earth I mean Arizona in the summertime.
 
2012-08-07 10:21:51 PM
I can't understand why Wade Michael Page was concerned about the minorities and Jews ruining America, when most of the recent mass murder shootings have been done by white males.
 
2012-08-07 10:21:59 PM
Sine-aid O'Connor!
 
2012-08-07 10:22:19 PM

way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.


Don't want to put the witnesses/victims through the trial. Plus if he gets the DP, he gets automatic appeals. Part of his plea agreement was no appeals.
 
2012-08-07 10:22:52 PM

Captain Steroid: Shocked an inconsolable.


Shocked an inconsolable what?
 
2012-08-07 10:23:36 PM

way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.


Wouldn't trying him for the death penalty actually cost the taxpayers more? I want to say that after the trial and any appeals etc. that the cost to simply put him in prison forever may be cheaper.
 
2012-08-07 10:23:52 PM

way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.


Cheaper, less risk, same ultimate outcome
 
2012-08-07 10:24:46 PM
So force him to take anti-psychotics, make him sane and then tell him that since he is now sane no jury will buy the insanity plea. Then have him plead out, rather clever.
 
2012-08-07 10:25:04 PM
Good, let him rot.

/nothing else needs to be said
 
2012-08-07 10:25:24 PM
Grand_Moff_Joseph
On the other - also cynical - hand, that he avoids the death penalty and gets to live on the taxpayer's dime forever is a disappointment.

Not for me. Just think of it -- the death penalty is quick, going out in a blaze of glory.

Life imprisonment is slow. Nothing to do. Confined to your cell 23 hours a day. No one gives a shiat about you. You know that absolutely nothing will ever change, for the rest of your life. Boredom, boredom, boredom. The world forgets about you.

I think that's a much worse punishment. I'd rather take the needle in the arm, given a choice.
 
2012-08-07 10:25:28 PM
Can someone find me some Addams Family rule 34? Specifically "Thing" pr0n.

farm1.static.flickr.com
 
2012-08-07 10:26:20 PM
I don't get it. Why would someone take life in prison instead of the death penalty? Hell, if I knew I was going away for the rest of my natural life, I'd welcome death.
 
2012-08-07 10:26:34 PM

MattyFridays: way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.

Don't want to put the witnesses/victims through the trial. Plus if he gets the DP, he gets automatic appeals. Part of his plea agreement was no appeals.


Makes sense.
Him wasting away in jail getting book deals isn't as satisfying as the death penalty tho.

/because someone somewhere will inevitably pay this chucklefark for his pathetic story.
/At least the proceeds of that go to the families.
 
2012-08-07 10:27:32 PM

CravenMorehead: Captain Steroid: Shocked an inconsolable.

Shocked an inconsolable what?


An inconsolable Itt, duh!

/ What's on first?
// (more Addams appropriate)
 
2012-08-07 10:27:43 PM
I have to laugh at the whole thing. What, he was insane when he shot those people? OF COURSE he was! Sane people don't fire indiscriminately into a crowd. It took a year, a bunch of doctors, and a whole shiatload of dope to make it so that he could be charged with a crime? The joke's on us, I guess.
 
2012-08-07 10:28:07 PM

way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.


He had the actus reus, however he probably did not have the mens rea.
 
2012-08-07 10:28:09 PM
Couldn't they kill him just a little bit?
 
2012-08-07 10:28:21 PM

way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.


Nothing like justice by killing known to be severely schizophrenic people.

How civilized.

It's called the "justice" system and not the "vengeance" system for a reason.
 
2012-08-07 10:28:30 PM

skinink: I can't understand why Wade Michael Page was concerned about the minorities and Jews ruining America, when most of the recent mass murder shootings have been done by white males.


What does the recent mass murder shootings have anything to do with ruining America?
 
2012-08-07 10:28:38 PM

way south: /because someone somewhere will inevitably pay this chucklefark for his pathetic story.


Never understood that. Amassing wealth seems a little pointless when you're behind bars for the rest of your life and will never get to use it for anything.
 
2012-08-07 10:28:44 PM

Lost Thought 00: way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.

Cheaper, less risk, same ultimate outcome




Umm, no. There's that part of a death sentence where the convict GETS PUT TO DEATH.

I for one (and I'm sure I'm not alone) believe that killing this POS would be worth any cost of taxpayer money.
 
2012-08-07 10:29:33 PM
Can't believe it. I thought for sure he was innocent.
 
2012-08-07 10:29:35 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: On one cynical hand, this saves the state and the taxpayers loads of money for a lengthy trial. On the other - also cynical - hand, that he avoids the death penalty and gets to live on the taxpayer's dime forever is a disappointment.

Also, under what circumstances would he get to retain ownership of the guns he used? Did the police not confiscate them?


At this point he's essentially been convicted of a violent felony... he forfeits any right to own or possess firearms.

/of course, he'll never see the outside of a prison or mental hospital.
 
2012-08-07 10:30:55 PM

KarmicDisaster: Couldn't they kill him just a little bit?


media.tumblr.com

Mostly dead would be cathartic.
 
2012-08-07 10:31:25 PM

indylaw: Grand_Moff_Joseph: On one cynical hand, this saves the state and the taxpayers loads of money for a lengthy trial. On the other - also cynical - hand, that he avoids the death penalty and gets to live on the taxpayer's dime forever is a disappointment.

Also, under what circumstances would he get to retain ownership of the guns he used? Did the police not confiscate them?

At this point he's essentially been convicted of a violent felony... he forfeits any right to own or possess firearms.

/of course, he'll never see the outside of a prison or mental hospital.


We still have mental hospitals?
 
2012-08-07 10:31:37 PM

skinink: I can't understand why Wade Michael Page was concerned about the minorities and Jews ruining America, when most of the recent mass murder shootings have been done by white males.


You must be new here
I don't mean Fark

Earth
 
2012-08-07 10:31:49 PM

zedster: I'm confused, they can admit you were not of sane mind at the time of a crime, than commit you. If after commitment you regain use of your mental facilities they can charge you for your crimes?

I'm not saying he should be out walking the streets but unless they can show actions he took while sane, like stopping doctor proscribed medication, played a role in his later actions I fail to see the justice in charging him and shifting him into general population prison


I agree. If he was insane at the time of the crime then he should be committed to a secure psychiatric facility until it can be proven beyond any doubt he is no longer a ganger to anyone. But I'm not even sure if there are suitable psychiatric institutions anymore.
 
2012-08-07 10:32:39 PM
Well, Bye.
 
2012-08-07 10:32:43 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I have to laugh at the whole thing. What, he was insane when he shot those people? OF COURSE he was! Sane people don't fire indiscriminately into a crowd. It took a year, a bunch of doctors, and a whole shiatload of dope to make it so that he could be charged with a crime? The joke's on us, I guess.


The relevant question for criminal liability is not "is he crazy?" (he undoubtedly is stark farking bonkers), but "is he so crazy that he had no idea what he was doing? Did he think he was playing Duck Hunt?" Given that there was plenty of evidence around his house showing that he planned out the massacre and even referred to Gabrielle Giffords' "assassination," that argument wasn't going anywhere.
 
2012-08-07 10:33:23 PM
Additional provisions of the plea deal call for Loughner to forfeit ownership of the weapons he used in the shootings and pay restitution of up to $19 million, $1 million to each of the victims.

Why not $19 billion? Or $19 trillion?
 
2012-08-07 10:33:55 PM

insertsnarkyusername: indylaw: Grand_Moff_Joseph: On one cynical hand, this saves the state and the taxpayers loads of money for a lengthy trial. On the other - also cynical - hand, that he avoids the death penalty and gets to live on the taxpayer's dime forever is a disappointment.

Also, under what circumstances would he get to retain ownership of the guns he used? Did the police not confiscate them?

At this point he's essentially been convicted of a violent felony... he forfeits any right to own or possess firearms.

/of course, he'll never see the outside of a prison or mental hospital.

We still have mental hospitals?


Oh my yes. Did you think we didn't? Most if not every state has at least one "forensic psychiatric hospital" for the criminally insane.
 
2012-08-07 10:34:53 PM

rhiannon: Additional provisions of the plea deal call for Loughner to forfeit ownership of the weapons he used in the shootings and pay restitution of up to $19 million, $1 million to each of the victims.

Why not $19 billion? Or $19 trillion?


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-07 10:36:17 PM
But he was standing his ground!
 
2012-08-07 10:36:17 PM

jmr61: Lost Thought 00: way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.

Cheaper, less risk, same ultimate outcome



Umm, no. There's that part of a death sentence where the convict GETS PUT TO DEATH.

I for one (and I'm sure I'm not alone) believe that killing this POS would be worth any cost of taxpayer money.


If you lock a cat in a box, and never look at it for 100 years, and then open the box, the cat will be dead, regardless of whether or not it was dead when you put it in the box
 
2012-08-07 10:36:25 PM

indylaw: insertsnarkyusername: indylaw: Grand_Moff_Joseph: On one cynical hand, this saves the state and the taxpayers loads of money for a lengthy trial. On the other - also cynical - hand, that he avoids the death penalty and gets to live on the taxpayer's dime forever is a disappointment.

Also, under what circumstances would he get to retain ownership of the guns he used? Did the police not confiscate them?

At this point he's essentially been convicted of a violent felony... he forfeits any right to own or possess firearms.

/of course, he'll never see the outside of a prison or mental hospital.

We still have mental hospitals?

Oh my yes. Did you think we didn't? Most if not every state has at least one "forensic psychiatric hospital" for the criminally insane.


I was curious, because we shove a ton of people that should be in mental institutions into regular prisons.
 
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