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(NBC News) NewsFlash Uncle Fester pleads guilty in Tucson shootings, gets life imprisonment   (usnews.nbcnews.com ) divider line
    More: NewsFlash, Tucson shooting, life imprisonments, Jared Loughner, Tucson, Southern Arizona, Courts of Arizona, death penalty, Gabrielle Giffords  
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14324 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Aug 2012 at 10:17 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-08-07 11:28:44 PM  

Lost Thought 00: jmr61: Lost Thought 00: way south: Why did they allow him to plea out?
I'd have thought with the multiple witnesses and all, he'd be a shoe in for the death penalty.

Cheaper, less risk, same ultimate outcome

Umm, no. There's that part of a death sentence where the convict GETS PUT TO DEATH.

I for one (and I'm sure I'm not alone) believe that killing this POS would be worth any cost of taxpayer money.

If you lock a cat in a box, and never look at it for 100 years, and then open the box, the cat will be dead, regardless of whether or not it was dead when you put it in the box



So clearly you dont understand how a prison functions. And WTF does a cat and a box have anything to do with anything?

Please go back to your Xbox.
 
2012-08-07 11:29:45 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: On one cynical hand, this saves the state and the taxpayers loads of money for a lengthy trial. On the other - also cynical - hand, that he avoids the death penalty and gets to live on the taxpayer's dime forever is a disappointment.


Don't worry, based on his original famous mug shot, he'll manage to piss off the wrong person pretty fast if he's not kept in isolation for the rest of his life in some super max
 
2012-08-07 11:30:19 PM  

nakmuay: So I guess now's a good time to talk about gun control?


Sure. You should use both hands.
 
2012-08-07 11:31:04 PM  
Speaking of mug shots, hope they release an updated one soon... Want to see if his nose has been broken again and if he has any fresh black eyes
 
2012-08-07 11:31:44 PM  
Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly, said they were in favor of the guilty plea. It allows them to avoid a long trial and put it behind them and concentrate on moving on with their lives.
 
2012-08-07 11:33:08 PM  
Two monks, going to a neighbouring monastery, walked side by side in silence. They arrived at a river they had to cross. That season, waters were higher than usual. On the bank, a young woman in a beautiful kimono was hesitating and asked the younger of the two monks for help. He exclaimed, 'Don't you see that I am a monk, that I took a vow of chastity? I...not...I can...do nothing for you,' said the embarrassed young monk.

'It doesn't matter,' said the elderly monk. 'Climb on my back and we will cross together.'

Having reached the other bank, the old monk put down the young woman who, in return, thanked him with a broad smile. She left her side and both monks continued their route in silence. Close to the monastery, the young monk could not stand it anymore and said, 'You shouldn't have carried that woman on your back. It's against our rules.'

'Are you still carrying her? I put her down hours ago,' replied the older monk.
 
2012-08-07 11:36:48 PM  

intelligent comment below: He'll probably "find Jesus" or something


Of course he will. Prisons are full of guys named Jesus.
 
2012-08-07 11:37:43 PM  

dmax: 'Are you still carrying her? I put her down hours ago,'

, said the shooter to CBS,,,
 
2012-08-07 11:43:14 PM  
Cost of keeping him in prison for the next 40 years: approx. $1.5mil
Cost of a bullet: approx. $.72
 
2012-08-07 11:45:14 PM  
Seems like we should study the fark outta this guy and see what we can do to prevent farks like this from farking getting to this farked up point of surreality and farking up our swerve. shiat.
 
2012-08-07 11:45:15 PM  

untaken_name: Cost of keeping him in prison for the next 40 years: approx. $1.5mil
Cost of a bullet: approx. $.72


You all talking about your precious tax dollars do realize that with all the appeals and things, the death penalty is more expensive than life, right?
 
2012-08-07 11:46:55 PM  

Mugato: untaken_name: Cost of keeping him in prison for the next 40 years: approx. $1.5mil
Cost of a bullet: approx. $.72

You all talking about your precious tax dollars do realize that with all the appeals and things, the death penalty is more expensive than life, right?


That *might*, just *might*, be the reason I chose to contrast the cost of life in prison with the cost of a bullet rather than the cost of the death penalty. JUST MAYBE.
 
2012-08-07 11:47:36 PM  
Someone is going to kill him just to be the guy that killed the guy. Same shiat happened to Jeffery Dahmer.
 
2012-08-07 11:48:01 PM  

way south: Hopscotching back and forth with the insanity defense.
Is he crazy or not?
I dislike the idea that someone can murder a room full of people and then say "Sorry about that, but I'm all better now. Go easy on me!".

A few decades ago a judge would have said "That's nice." and then either committed you to an asylum or have you strung up in the harbor entrance like a decoration.

While this guys victims have to deal with their injuries and losses, he gets to live out his life in relative peace on their tax money.
That doesn't sound entirely fair.


He's crazy. He admits that. He agreed to be medicated and jailed for the rest of his life. He'll never be able to go swimming again. He'll never be able to go out to a restaurant, or on a date, or just watch a sunrise. I can't imagine how being imprisoned until you die, with absolutely no chance whatsoever of ever getting out for even five minutes in your life, can sound like a great deal.

But, he's now sane enough to agree to it. It's been widely reported he can't believe he did what he did, that he shows regret, etc. All now that he's had some treatment.

It's tragic that we couldn't have treated him somehow before 19 victims and all had their lives forever changed.

But if you think it's going easy on him to have him locked up for the rest of his life, I can't imagine how terrible your life must be. I like being able to take a walk, or go out for a beer once in a while.
 
2012-08-07 11:52:12 PM  

UsikFark: intelligent comment below: He should spend the rest of his life with the thoughts of what he did,

[ak.imgfarm.com image 32x32]


yeah, but what if he really doesn't care one way or the other? Or he actually liked what he did? Telling someone that your remorseful of something you did to get out of the Death Penalty, who would lie about that.
 
2012-08-07 11:53:53 PM  

Koalaesq: indylaw: insertsnarkyusername: I was curious, because we shove a ton of people that should be in mental institutions into regular prisons.

Generally the state mental hospitals are for defendants who successfully rely on a "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense to capital felonies. They're still jails, just jails with more nurses and thorazine injections.

If you get picked up for breaking into the wrong house during a psychotic episode, you're not going to the state hospital. You're going to jail.

Truth is that many criminals have some underlying psychiatric disorder that makes run-ins with the law more likely.

One of the nicest clients I have is a gentleman who served about 15 years for murder. He got released, was FINALLY diagnosed with severe schizophrenia, got the right meds, and got social security and Medicaid so he can afford to stay ON those meds, which he never could before. He's honestly one of the most amiable gentlemen I've come across.

I think recent stats say 1/4 to 1/3 of all offenders in prison have some sort of mental illness.


He probably got all the nastiness out of his system when he picked up that axe all those years ago. But in all seriousness, a lot of what you read as "nice" may just be institutional knee-jerk politeness. Cons learn this to deal with anyone who may be in a potential position to report them to an authority . I've seen pimps, child molesters, and drug dealers, and some individuals who tried all three, behave so politely because they didn't want to end up with negative feedback going to their parole officer that you'd think you were in an Emily Post fan club.
 
2012-08-07 11:54:19 PM  

0Icky0: China


what would honestly be the best outcome, honestly? Option 1) End the man's life right now. Option 2) He lives for decades in a dangerous environment with zero chance at ever getting out. And environment where his safety is in jeopardy at any given moment in the form of shives, anal rape and murder from some thug looking to be known as the guy who kill the guy who shot that congresswoman.

I feel that the absolute worse punishment that can ever be given is life in prison without the chance at parole. I believe that when that sentence is given there should be a noose hung in his cell and a note written that he's free to end it all on his terms any day he wishes and no one will stop him. That's a whole hell of a lot better than telling him that he can not kill himself and must live in prison until he dies of old age, or a heart attack or anything else. And what good does he do for society while he's in prison for life? Society is paying to keep him alive, but he doesn't return that money in any form. At least on a chain gang he'd be allowed out every so often to give back to the community.

Either kill him now and be done with it, or give him a couple decades in prison and let him go. Life in prison without parole is senseless.
 
2012-08-07 11:56:01 PM  

Tyranicle: Funny how mass shootings receive the most press yet suicides, car accidents and blacks get almost no coverage.


You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die a schizo will shoot up a movie thater, well then everyone loses their minds!

qph.cf.quoracdn.net
/creepy how applicable it is now
//still don't blame the movies
 
2012-08-07 11:58:58 PM  

skinink: I can't understand why Wade Michael Page was concerned about the minorities and Jews ruining America, when most of the recent mass murder shootings have been done by white males.


And, according to Fark, fictitious ones at that.
 
2012-08-07 11:59:19 PM  

Endive Wombat: I just wanted to say that I really love the fact that we keep giving these "celebrity murderers" pop culture based names.


I find this one of the weirder aspects of these mass murders: the brigade of Internet people who think it will somehow help the killers to belittle them with insulting names after they are caught.

I guess everyone needs a cause to stand for, and a randomly generated idea that makes no sense is just as good as anything else.
 
2012-08-07 11:59:59 PM  

mauricecano: You are never absolved from your actions due to your mental state


Is the law not defective in this regard? Surely there are mental states that would make commission a crime literally inevitable. "My brain made me do it" may sound like a cop-out but it's the truth in a situation where delusions take the choice not to act off the table. We don't expect small children to make reality-based decisions and severe mental illness puts an adult in the same boat, or worse.
 
2012-08-08 12:05:32 AM  

noblewolf: UsikFark: intelligent comment below: He should spend the rest of his life with the thoughts of what he did,

[ak.imgfarm.com image 32x32]

yeah, but what if he really doesn't care one way or the other? Or he actually liked what he did? Telling someone that your remorseful of something you did to get out of the Death Penalty, who would lie about that.


what are you smoking
 
2012-08-08 12:05:55 AM  

untaken_name: Cost of keeping him in prison for the next 40 years: approx. $1.5mil
Cost of a bullet: approx. $.72


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-08-08 12:07:48 AM  

saintstryfe: untaken_name: Cost of keeping him in prison for the next 40 years: approx. $1.5mil
Cost of a bullet: approx. $.72

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 680x511]


www.sadanduseless.com
 
2012-08-08 12:08:00 AM  

noblewolf: yeah, but what if he really doesn't care one way or the other? Or he actually liked what he did? Telling someone that your remorseful of something you did to get out of the Death Penalty, who would lie about that.


He had to be medicated for how long before a professional psychiatrist, who is recognized as an expect by our courts, could say that he was fit to plead guilty and you think he was faking it?

That dude must be a great actor.
 
2012-08-08 12:09:39 AM  

Saturn5: Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly, said they were in favor of the guilty plea. It allows them to avoid a long trial and put it behind them and concentrate on moving on with their lives.


THIS.
 
2012-08-08 12:27:23 AM  
The bottom line is that when the defense got word that the expert was going to testify that Loughner was competent, they knew they had no chance in hell of winning a trial... thus, the plea deal.

That said, in the legal system, it's the responsibility of the parties to attempt to settle/plea prior to trial. The defense weighed the money potentially spent and hours potentially worked in a case that was probably doomed vs. working out a plea that gets it all over. On top of that, I suspect that Loughner isn't really the easiest client to work with, so that yoke is taken off the defense's neck, too.

All I gotta say is that if this loon takes one step out into the general population, he's in very deep trouble. I know it's not likely because of his psychological issues, but still...

In the end, I'd rather see him swing. What he did was horrific and was planned meticulously. It makes me ill that he could affect if not ruin so many lives and essentially walk away. Yeah, he'll be in prison for life, but he'll have better health care and three squares a day than so many law-abiding and tax paying citizens. Ugh.

//Gabby and Mark have generous spirits
/I could never be so gracious if my life and livelihood were taken away like that
//not a good week for the AZ legal system - first Tammi Smith (Baby Gabriel) walks, now this
 
2012-08-08 12:29:48 AM  
NBC, fark? Really? I'd like the page to finish loading some time by noon.
 
2012-08-08 12:31:18 AM  

untaken_name: Cost of keeping him in prison for the next 40 years: approx. $1.5mil
Cost of a bullet: approx. $.72


What type of bullet you talking about that you estimate is $0.72 each (and are you talking a firing squad or more like something the KGB or Gestapo would do and just murder him flat out in the middle of the woods and kick the body into a shallow ditch?)
 
2012-08-08 12:35:37 AM  
But the KGB and Gestapo murdered countless innocent people. This guy is not innocent. He's got it coming to him. So why even bother with such a comparison?

And there's really nothing wrong with questioning America's extremely poor use of the death penalty.
 
2012-08-08 12:41:48 AM  

davidphogan: way south: Oh I don't disagree with the fact that our mental health situation is horribly inadequate.
But if we've judged a man competent enough to make his own legal decisions, I'd think that makes him more than qualified to suffer for the consequences of his actions.

He wasn't able to understand them when he committed the crime. The best analogy I can think of would be if he was a minor (like, 7 years old) when he did this, and really didn't understand what he did. Now, he's able to understand like an adult, and has agreed that he should be locked away for life.

I'd say he's accepting the consequences of being batshiat crazy pretty well. He's apologized now that he understands what he's done, and he's committed to an agreement that keeps him away from all of us (unless we, you know, end up in prison) for the rest of our lives.

What's the real problem with this?


Fark Independents believe in the death penalty, as often as possible, for whatever crimes they determine need it, and screw any mitigating circumstances.

Unless it's someone who was just standing his ground.
 
2012-08-08 12:42:01 AM  
i443.photobucket.com

And below that...

i443.photobucket.com

I just. No words.
 
2012-08-08 12:43:13 AM  

dmax:
Sorry to hear about what happened, that sounds horrible.
I think you express what I was trying to convey:

Folks chest thump and shout "vengeance!" or "justice!" and it's right that he should be taken away and his liberty denied but...as you say...it really doesn't assuage the victims. We like to think it does. It gives us a sense of "rightness" in the world. But, that's not how the real world is.

The real world is that you have to remember the loved one, and drop the anger/resentment/vengeance that the bad guy causes you to feel. Otherwise, you carry a weight that influences and ruins every other day afterward, and we don't have that many days that we can afford to behave like that, no matter how you look at it.

He deserves commitment to prison/mental hospital forever, and then - sadly - the best next step is to move on.
Expecting life to right itself to normal via his grief or torture or death is an exercise in futility.


You're right. Nothing can fix this. Nothing you can do to him can fix this - no penalty can fix this. We can only stop him from doing it again and move on to more productive things.

Life for the victims' families won't be normal, but can be normalized and sometimes even energized to the greater good. The anger and the hate left behind kill more than the original crime could ever kill. So, some of us choose to move on, celebrate the good, fight the good fight and realize that nothing that the justice system or any human can do can make the empty space in our lives go away. Forget the ITG chest thumping - many of us want to move on and leave that part behind. Until the justice system can revigorate our dead loved ones, nothing can be done to change what has already happened.

Losing family members to murder has done one thing for me - it has taught me that I have no taste for vengeance, that the justice system can't make things right, only maybe better, and that we have to move on and live ourselves, or the perp has taken our lives as well.

And a good hearty handshake to Gabrielle Giffords and her husband, who are quite willing to accept this, move along and live their changed lives.
 
2012-08-08 12:44:02 AM  

MUSIC:
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
/end Venn diagram 1

begin Venn diagram 2:
Michael Jackson:
[hypnotizing beats to strip children's clothes off of them to]
/etc



/i'm glad he's dead
//he stole music from Twisted Sister, a synopsis of the lawsuit is on their "Big Hits & Nasty Cuts" album insert; they also were BLARED 24/7 to get noriega out of the Panamanian Pope Palace; now he's in a 9-room max prison suite running drugs worldwide under federal protection
 
2012-08-08 12:53:58 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: On one cynical hand, this saves the state and the taxpayers loads of money for a lengthy trial. On the other - also cynical - hand, that he avoids the death penalty and gets to live on the taxpayer's dime forever is a disappointment.

Also, under what circumstances would he get to retain ownership of the guns he used? Did the police not confiscate them?


Tax payers dime for the next 60 years of his life in prison. A few cents here and there. If this guy ever owns a gun again, haha. What I don't get about the death penalty is so many murders include suicide - guess which punishment they are most horrified about.
 
2012-08-08 12:55:13 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Fark Independents believe in the death penalty, as often as possible, for whatever crimes they determine need it, and screw any mitigating circumstances.

Unless it's someone who was just standing his ground.


Oh, so it's like that thread we had when it was ruled courts can't kill retarded people?
 
2012-08-08 01:02:29 AM  
"I'd put [terrorists] in a small cell and make them watch home movies of the birthdays and baptisms and weddings of every single person they killed over and over everyday for the rest of their lives." ~Josh Lyman from The West Wing.

/I don't believe in the death penalty and feel that him rotting away in a cell for the rest of his life is a fine punishment. I do believe he should be shown, as the above quote suggests, movies and pictures of those he killed.
 
2012-08-08 01:03:38 AM  
From Link: Randy Gardner, who was shot in the foot outside the Safeway, said he was grateful that Justice Department officials kept everyone up to date on Loughner's court case. He said each was asked their opinions when it came to an outcome, and whether life in prison would be acceptable.

"We're all appreciative of the deal that was struck," Gardner said. "They asked us how we felt about the death penalty. They talked to us individually. But as a group we were pretty much on the same page. We weren't out for vengeance."

Gardner also wondered what would would have happened had Loughner gotten the help that court testimony Tuesday showed he needed. Dr. Christina Pietz, Loughner's forensic psychologist, painted a picture of a troubled man, one who isolated himself from friends and family.

Gardner, a former mental-health therapist, said he'd encountered troubled men who had been worse off than Loughner.

"It's truly sad he didn't receive attention prior to this," said Gardner, a former mental health therapist. "My thinking is we really have got to be our brother's keeper here and reach out when we see people struggling and get people help."
 
2012-08-08 01:06:02 AM  

thejourneyto30: "I'd put [terrorists] in a small cell and make them watch home movies of the birthdays and baptisms and weddings of every single person they killed over and over everyday for the rest of their lives." ~Josh Lyman from The West Wing.

/I don't believe in the death penalty and feel that him rotting away in a cell for the rest of his life is a fine punishment. I do believe he should be shown, as the above quote suggests, movies and pictures of those he killed.


www.sho.com
 
2012-08-08 01:09:21 AM  

thejourneyto30: "I'd put [terrorists] in a small cell and make them watch home movies of the birthdays and baptisms and weddings of every single person they killed over and over everyday for the rest of their lives." ~Josh Lyman from The West Wing.

/I don't believe in the death penalty and feel that him rotting away in a cell for the rest of his life is a fine punishment. I do believe he should be shown, as the above quote suggests, movies and pictures of those he killed.


Cruel and unusual punishment is banned in this country.
 
2012-08-08 01:11:40 AM  

MeinRS6: But the KGB and Gestapo murdered countless innocent people. This guy is not innocent. He's got it coming to him. So why even bother with such a comparison?

And there's really nothing wrong with questioning America's extremely poor use of the death penalty.


The point of the comment was that we can be brutal in how to handle punishment, like the examples cited, or have a system set up that gives everyone the same equal chance, not automatically judged and executed on the spot like being advocated, or practiced by the likes of the KGB and the Gestapo.
 
2012-08-08 01:15:11 AM  

LawrencePerson: Life Imprisonment for The Assassin from the Republic of Loony Tunes.

The guy's manifesto almost made Time Cube Guy sound coherent by comparison.

Almost.


I'd like to summarize : classified leak of information...grammar is double blind...mother farkin Anarchists who have a problem with them illegal illiterate pigs. :-D [EMOTICON?] Laugh.....genocidal Constitution....underpaid police...I'm a Nihilist, not someone who put who put trust in god! What is section 10 you ask? those illegal teachers, pigs, and politicians of yours are under illegal authority of their constitution. Those dirty pigs think they know the damn year. Their Current Currency(1/1) / Your new infinite currency (1/~infinte) This is a selcte information of revoluntary thoughts! Each subject is unlocatible!

/maybe WTFAMIREADING would have been shorter

/Time Cube guy is crazier and more fun
 
2012-08-08 01:16:40 AM  

davidphogan: Gyrfalcon: Fark Independents believe in the death penalty, as often as possible, for whatever crimes they determine need it, and screw any mitigating circumstances.

Unless it's someone who was just standing his ground.

Oh, so it's like that thread we had when it was ruled courts can't kill retarded people?


Probably. I'd have to look it up.

I was thinking more of the threads where people enthusiastically support execution of child molesters, rapists, and all-around bad guys, but equally enthusiastically endorse anyone who kills someone merely because he "felt threatened."
 
2012-08-08 01:21:21 AM  

Great Janitor: I feel that the absolute worse punishment that can ever be given is life in prison without the chance at parole.


You are assuming a perfect system of justice.
How many overturnings of convictions for capital crimes will it take for people to realize that the death penalty is farking crazy?
 
2012-08-08 01:33:46 AM  

davidphogan: Cruel and unusual punishment is banned in this country.


And what part of that is cruel and/or unusual?
 
2012-08-08 01:33:59 AM  

KellyX: untaken_name: Cost of keeping him in prison for the next 40 years: approx. $1.5mil
Cost of a bullet: approx. $.72

What type of bullet you talking about that you estimate is $0.72 each (and are you talking a firing squad or more like something the KGB or Gestapo would do and just murder him flat out in the middle of the woods and kick the body into a shallow ditch?)


It was an approximation based off my own buying experience. I typically buy Hornady or better in .45. Firing squads are fine, but then you also have to pay the guys and buy blank rounds and whatnot. I was thinking we could just have the President order him executed and then one of the army guys could use the rifle we bought him and the ammo we've paid for and already issued to him and do his duty for his country.
 
2012-08-08 01:37:32 AM  

thejourneyto30: And what part of that is cruel and/or unusual?


thejourneyto30: "I'd put [terrorists] in a small cell and make them watch home movies of the birthdays and baptisms and weddings of every single person they killed over and over everyday for the rest of their lives."


You seem to think the way to fix someone who has admitted he's crazy is to do something that would seem to be designed to mentally break him.
 
2012-08-08 01:39:44 AM  

untaken_name: I was thinking we could just have the President order him executed and then one of the army guys could use the rifle we bought him and the ammo we've paid for and already issued to him and do his duty for his country.


So, throw out the Constitution so we can kill a crazy guy who is responding to treatment with remorse... Uhhh...
 
2012-08-08 01:44:53 AM  

Gyrfalcon: davidphogan: Gyrfalcon: Fark Independents believe in the death penalty, as often as possible, for whatever crimes they determine need it, and screw any mitigating circumstances.

Unless it's someone who was just standing his ground.

Oh, so it's like that thread we had when it was ruled courts can't kill retarded people?

Probably. I'd have to look it up.

I was thinking more of the threads where people enthusiastically support execution of child molesters, rapists, and all-around bad guys, but equally enthusiastically endorse anyone who kills someone merely because he "felt threatened."


Fortunately we killed a fresh tard tonight, so we have a new thread. I really had no idea Texas was going to cook up some veggies tonight.
 
2012-08-08 01:45:00 AM  

Evil Canadian:

Losing family members to murder has done one thing for me - it has taught me that I have no taste for vengeance, that the justice system can't make things right, only maybe better, and that we have to move on and live ourselves, or the perp has taken our lives as wel ...


Godspeed, dude.
 
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