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(Mother Jones)   Good: Children in Louisiana are learning the stories of the Bible. Bad: Instead of science. Ugly: On the taxpayer's dime   (motherjones.com) divider line 184
    More: Asinine, Louisiana, Bibles, John Steinbeck, Loch Ness Monster, Trail of Tears, Dred Scott, mortgage foreclosures, voucher school  
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2750 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Aug 2012 at 12:32 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-07 12:48:42 PM
I am glad to live in Massachusetts.
 
2012-08-07 12:51:45 PM

Into the blue again: I am glad to live in Massachusetts.


must be nice to be able to say that for once ;)

/I keed
//did time in Woostah
///tainted my view
////hehe, tainted
 
2012-08-07 12:52:24 PM
8. SCOTUS enslaved fetuses: "Ignoring 3,500 years of Judeo-Christian civilization, religion, morality, and law, the Burger Court held that an unborn child was not a living person but rather the "property" of the mother (much like slaves were considered property in the 1857 case of Dred Scott v. Sandford)."- American Government in Christian Perspective, 2nd ed. A Beka Book, 1997


Actually, that sounds a lot like it's based on Judeo-Christian civilization, what with the whole condoning slavery and a child isn't of value until it's a month old bits.
 
2012-08-07 12:52:46 PM
I grew up in a fundie school that taught from both BJU and ABeka texts - I can remember almost all of the bulletpoints in TFA in my textbooks. I'm just surprised they haven't updated their texts since I was in school (90s).
 
2012-08-07 12:52:53 PM

patrick767: Why does learning blatantly false information even qualify these kids for a high school diploma? Their ignorant parents are turning their children into equally ignorant morons.


Not equally. Presumably, the parents had an actual education when they were children that they're choosing to ignore now.
 
2012-08-07 12:53:19 PM

Kome: We need an informed voting populace, not an uninformed or deliberately misinformed voting populace.


The GOP needs the latter.
 
2012-08-07 12:53:39 PM
Speaking as a sad Louisianian, maybe it's time the US tells the South to fark off and cut its losses. Any meaningful reform is a lost cause (pun intended) down here.
 
2012-08-07 12:53:57 PM

skullkrusher: I do love me some choice in public education but lol wat?


There already is choice. There has always been choice. What is missing is means.

My parents had choices for my education, just as I have choices for my kids education. I choose public school backed up with my involvement in their education as well as instilling a love for learning in them.

I could have chosen private school, if there was a secular one and they were not expensive. There are multiple charter schools around me, but again, expensive.

There is also homeschooling, but that was not an option really, as there was very little local support for secular homeschooling(it's changed recently), plus it can be rather expensive having to purchase and ship those learning materials. Plus I cannot stand the smug from the homeschooling parents I know. Their kids are fine, but the parents are insufferable regarding that topic.

And really, I think that because I place a high value on education and I am involved in my children's schooling, they would have succeeded regardless of what venue we chose for them.

Voucher programs and charter schools are failing across the country because uninvolved parents treat the program as a panacea and stay uninvolved, expecting the private or charter school to fix all the problems, when the problem starts with the parents.
 
2012-08-07 12:54:05 PM
"God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."

Wow. Just... wow.
 
2012-08-07 12:54:33 PM
www.motherjones.com

wow.. is that for realz? Math are hard.
 
2012-08-07 12:54:44 PM

Serious Black: SkinnyHead: Louisiana is poised to spend tens of millions of dollars to help poor and middle-class students from the state's notoriously terrible public schools receive a private education.

Isn't it better to give parents a choice, instead of forcing their kids into notoriously terrible public schools?

You know, if we really wanted to make schools better, we could look at what education strategies are working best in other countries and producing the highest-quality students. Like, say, Finland, a country that has abolished private schools entirely.


This is the US of A!!! We are the best at everything. Therefore, anything we do is the best way to do it. We have nothing to learn from anyone else because by definition, they are not the best and thus their way would be inferior to our way since we are the best.

Why do you hate America?
 
2012-08-07 12:55:04 PM
The only good place to learn about bible stories is a comparative religion class or a history class. As long as the context is the same as it would be for Aesop's fables - namely, some interesting stories, SOME of which can teach about the golden rule. Others are horrible stories about genocide, murder, rape, and douchbaggery.
 
2012-08-07 12:56:38 PM

timujin: 8. SCOTUS enslaved fetuses: "Ignoring 3,500 years of Judeo-Christian civilization, religion, morality, and law, the Burger Court held that an unborn child was not a living person but rather the "property" of the mother (much like slaves were considered property in the 1857 case of Dred Scott v. Sandford)."- American Government in Christian Perspective, 2nd ed. A Beka Book, 1997


Actually, that sounds a lot like it's based on Judeo-Christian civilization, what with the whole condoning slavery and a child isn't of value until it's a month old bits.


I need to ask my Prosperity Gospel thumpers about those sections and what they mean with regard to life beginning at the moment the sperm and egg join.
 
2012-08-07 12:56:39 PM
Leave them alone! All they need to know is would you like to super size that.
 
2012-08-07 12:58:12 PM

Pincy: Serious Black: SkinnyHead: Louisiana is poised to spend tens of millions of dollars to help poor and middle-class students from the state's notoriously terrible public schools receive a private education.

Isn't it better to give parents a choice, instead of forcing their kids into notoriously terrible public schools?

You know, if we really wanted to make schools better, we could look at what education strategies are working best in other countries and producing the highest-quality students. Like, say, Finland, a country that has abolished private schools entirely.

This is the US of A!!! We are the best at everything. Therefore, anything we do is the best way to do it. We have nothing to learn from anyone else because by definition, they are not the best and thus their way would be inferior to our way since we are the best.

Why do you hate America?


Because Barack Obama shoved his giant, erect penis up my butthole completely dry on November 3, 2008 in a successful effort to convert me to Communism.
 
2012-08-07 12:59:45 PM

skullkrusher: Into the blue again: I am glad to live in Massachusetts.

must be nice to be able to say that for once ;)

/I keed
//did time in Woostah
///tainted my view
////hehe, tainted


Woostah? ugggh, that place sucks.
 
2012-08-07 12:59:52 PM

meat0918: My parents had choices for my education, just as I have choices for my kids education. I choose public school backed up with my involvement in their education as well as instilling a love for learning in them.


that's not a choice in public education. That's the choice OF public education

meat0918: Voucher programs and charter schools are failing across the country because uninvolved parents treat the program as a panacea and stay uninvolved, expecting the private or charter school to fix all the problems, when the problem starts with the parents.


except in places where charter schools are not failing. Unless we are to believe that all public schools are constant in their quality and the only variable is parental involvement, choice in public schools is a good thing
 
2012-08-07 01:00:39 PM

johnryan51: Leave them alone! All they need to know is would you like to super size that.


Ditches ain't gonna dig themselves.
 
2012-08-07 01:01:38 PM

skullkrusher: except in places where charter schools are not failing. Unless we are to believe that all public schools are constant in their quality and the only variable is parental involvement, choice in public schools is a good thing


I fail to see how providing schools on the taxpayer's dime, then providing vouchers on the taxpayer's dime to not go to those schools is in any way a rational act. Either fix the public schools or give up on them entirely and give everyone vouchers.
 
2012-08-07 01:01:48 PM

timujin: 8. SCOTUS enslaved fetuses: "Ignoring 3,500 years of Judeo-Christian civilization, religion, morality, and law, the Burger Court held that an unborn child was not a living person but rather the "property" of the mother (much like slaves were considered property in the 1857 case of Dred Scott v. Sandford)."- American Government in Christian Perspective, 2nd ed. A Beka Book, 1997


Actually, that sounds a lot like it's based on Judeo-Christian civilization, what with the whole condoning slavery and a child isn't of value until it's a month old bits.


SCOTUS ignored 3,500 years of Judeo-Christian civilization by saying that the fetus was the property of the mother. By biblical law, the kid is the father's property which he can sell into slavery or use as a human sacrifice.
 
2012-08-07 01:01:52 PM

Into the blue again: skullkrusher: Into the blue again: I am glad to live in Massachusetts.

must be nice to be able to say that for once ;)

/I keed
//did time in Woostah
///tainted my view
////hehe, tainted

Woostah? ugggh, that place sucks.


CSB time

A fellow that works at my company is from jolly ol' england. He tried using a GPS to get to worcester. lulz all around.
 
2012-08-07 01:02:03 PM
Attending for-profit schools will give these kids a big advantage when they transition to for-profit prisons.
 
2012-08-07 01:03:14 PM

archnem: I grew up in a fundie school that taught from both BJU and ABeka texts - I can remember almost all of the bulletpoints in TFA in my textbooks. I'm just surprised they haven't updated their texts since I was in school (90s).


ABeka here. And yes, I can verify that all of those bulletpoints were not only promoted in the textbooks, but were considered absolutely uncontroversial by the fundies I went to school with.

But the thing that to this day strikes me more than anything else is a certain line in our US History textbook, which went something like,

"The fact that heterosexuals and even innocent children began to be infected by the AIDS virus shows just how far our society had fallen from God's standard of sexual morality."

Yes, children dying from AIDS is a just punishment from God. This is what many Christians actually believe.
 
2012-08-07 01:03:43 PM

Serious Black: timujin: 8. SCOTUS enslaved fetuses: "Ignoring 3,500 years of Judeo-Christian civilization, religion, morality, and law, the Burger Court held that an unborn child was not a living person but rather the "property" of the mother (much like slaves were considered property in the 1857 case of Dred Scott v. Sandford)."- American Government in Christian Perspective, 2nd ed. A Beka Book, 1997


Actually, that sounds a lot like it's based on Judeo-Christian civilization, what with the whole condoning slavery and a child isn't of value until it's a month old bits.

I need to ask my Prosperity Gospel thumpers about those sections and what they mean with regard to life beginning at the moment the sperm and egg join.


From what I understand, according to the Bible you can punch a pregnant women in the baby maker and if she loses the baby you'll face a fine determined by the woman's husband and a judge. However, if you bash the kid's head on a rock after it's a month old, you have to pay her five shekles of silver if it was a boy or three for a girl.
 
2012-08-07 01:04:21 PM
12. Gay people "have no more claims to special rights than child molesters or rapists."

It's nice to see one of these fundie churches finally come out in support of gay rights. If gays have the same rights as child molesters and rapists and they can get married then so can homosexuals.
 
2012-08-07 01:04:48 PM
What a Louisiana publicly-funded Christian voucher school may look like:

cdn.everyjoe.com
 
2012-08-07 01:06:02 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2012-08-07 01:07:36 PM

Serious Black: Oh God. This is even worse. Here's the actual policy from a charter school in Louisiana:

If an administrator or teachers suspects a student is pregnant, a parent conference will be held. The school reserves the right to require any female student to take a pregnancy test to confirm whether or not the suspected student is in fact pregnant. The school further reserves the right to refer the suspected student to a physician of its choice. If the test indicates that the student is pregnant, the student will not be permitted to attend classes on the campus of Dehli Charter School.


Wtf?

This seems illegal.
 
2012-08-07 01:08:05 PM

Serious Black: Pincy: Serious Black: SkinnyHead: Louisiana is poised to spend tens of millions of dollars to help poor and middle-class students from the state's notoriously terrible public schools receive a private education.

Isn't it better to give parents a choice, instead of forcing their kids into notoriously terrible public schools?

You know, if we really wanted to make schools better, we could look at what education strategies are working best in other countries and producing the highest-quality students. Like, say, Finland, a country that has abolished private schools entirely.

This is the US of A!!! We are the best at everything. Therefore, anything we do is the best way to do it. We have nothing to learn from anyone else because by definition, they are not the best and thus their way would be inferior to our way since we are the best.

Why do you hate America?

Because Barack Obama shoved his giant, erect penis up my butthole completely dry on November 3, 2008 in a successful effort to convert me to Communism.



Go on...
 
2012-08-07 01:08:37 PM

meat0918: Voucher programs and charter schools are failing across the country because uninvolved parents treat the program as a panacea and stay uninvolved, expecting the private or charter school to fix all the problems, when the problem starts with the parents.


What a surprise.

That's the thing about the "look how good private schools are compared to public! And for less money too!" arguments. The private schools (without vouchers) cost more. This causes a strong selection bias for private schools to get kids from parents that are involved in their child's education. One of the strongest indicator's of a child's success in school is having involved parents. The reason the private schools do better isn't necessarily because of some fundamental free-market competition, it's because they naturally receive better students to begin with.
 
2012-08-07 01:09:18 PM

Serious Black: Oh God. This is even worse. Here's the actual policy from a charter school in Louisiana:

If an administrator or teachers suspects a student is pregnant, a parent conference will be held. The school reserves the right to require any female student to take a pregnancy test to confirm whether or not the suspected student is in fact pregnant. The school further reserves the right to refer the suspected student to a physician of its choice. If the test indicates that the student is pregnant, the student will not be permitted to attend classes on the campus of Dehli Charter School.


I wonder if that requirement is also applied to unmarried female faculty and staff; and what constitutes acceptable evidence for suspicion. I would have certainly have had fun in high school if I could have started rumors that ended with the teacher I didn't like pissing on a stick every other day.

fark it - these schools are stupid enough on science that I wouldn't be suprised if you could convince them that the males need to take pregnancy tests.
 
2012-08-07 01:10:06 PM

Lurking Fear: And with no science, none of these kids will get into college. Seminary school maybe, but not college.


They will go to some shiatty bible college (partially funded by taxpayers) so they can go out and spread more of their BS with a degree.
 
2012-08-07 01:10:16 PM

czei: Attending for-profit schools will give these kids a big advantage when they transition to for-profit prisons.


Favorited off of the Boobies I ever read from you.
 
2012-08-07 01:11:32 PM

Bag of Hammers: [i.qkme.me image 540x720]


makes me laugh every time.

every freaking time.
 
2012-08-07 01:13:53 PM

sprawl15: skullkrusher: except in places where charter schools are not failing. Unless we are to believe that all public schools are constant in their quality and the only variable is parental involvement, choice in public schools is a good thing

I fail to see how providing schools on the taxpayer's dime, then providing vouchers on the taxpayer's dime to not go to those schools is in any way a rational act. Either fix the public schools or give up on them entirely and give everyone vouchers.


choice in public schools does not necessarily mean vouchers. Of course if fixing public schools were a simple task, we'd have done so. Allowing parents choice in which public school they wish their children to attend is a way to improve public schools.
 
2012-08-07 01:15:51 PM

Vodka Zombie: Yeah. They won't go very far in life with a head full of useless superstition.


Does the name "Monica Goodling" ring a bell?
 
2012-08-07 01:16:52 PM
Good, let them rot for all I care. Less competition in colleges for kids from states that don't put up with this BS.
 
2012-08-07 01:16:53 PM

skullkrusher: Allowing parents choice in which public school they wish their children to attend is a way to improve public schools.


There's a pretty big distinction between allowing people to choose and paying them to go elsewhere.
 
2012-08-07 01:17:42 PM

Burn_The_Plows: Kome: We need an informed voting populace, not an uninformed or deliberately misinformed voting populace.

The GOP needs the latter.


Democrats usually win the high school dropout vote by a large margin.
 
2012-08-07 01:18:24 PM

skullkrusher: sprawl15: skullkrusher: except in places where charter schools are not failing. Unless we are to believe that all public schools are constant in their quality and the only variable is parental involvement, choice in public schools is a good thing

I fail to see how providing schools on the taxpayer's dime, then providing vouchers on the taxpayer's dime to not go to those schools is in any way a rational act. Either fix the public schools or give up on them entirely and give everyone vouchers.

choice in public schools does not necessarily mean vouchers. Of course if fixing public schools were a simple task, we'd have done so. Allowing parents choice in which public school they wish their children to attend is a way to improve public schools.


A school that can pick and choose its students is not a public school.
 
2012-08-07 01:18:59 PM

improvius: "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."


encrypted-tbn2.google.com

Are you farking kidding me?
 
2012-08-07 01:19:44 PM
Da fuk...is Jesus getting a reacharound from Beelzebub?

www.motherjones.com
 
2012-08-07 01:23:23 PM

coeyagi: What a Louisiana publicly-funded Christian voucher school may look like:

[cdn.everyjoe.com image 520x353]


Someone liked Borderlands a bit too much.
 
2012-08-07 01:24:15 PM
"God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."

My great grandmother's family was part of the Trail of Tears. I think I can safely assert that God had nothing to do with it. Mollie came through that with her dignity intact, though, and ran a one-room schoolhouse where kids were actually allowed to think.


/Still have the old brass handbell she used, in a place of honor in my library
//Also, to the flat-thinkers in TFA? Go burn in a hell of your own devising.
 
2012-08-07 01:28:36 PM

skullkrusher: that's not a choice in public education. That's the choice OF public education


That's a rather fine distinction there. Are you talking about diverting students into to public school backed trade programs, art schools, computer schools, college prep schools, that sort of thing? I can get behind that. I'd love to see the end of pushing a guy that loves fixing up cars into mechanical engineering when he really just wants to fix cars and would do better in a trade school.

I have a big problem taking money from cash starved public schools and giving it to private entities that have no accountability to anyone except shareholders/investors. Why they have cash problems is a different issue*, but to say schools are failing and then undercutting them further so they fail a little harder is shortsighted, self-serving, and damaging to our country.

What happens when the only choice is between a shiatty "private" education or an even shiattier public education because a good education is out of reach for the majority of the people due to inflated costs?

If an educational entity wants to accept public funds to teach kids, I require that they at least meet the minimum requirements the public schools already have to meet. For instance, if a private school accepts public money in the form of vouchers, they are going to have to meet certain curriculum standards. They are not going to be allowed to a religious agenda. No exceptions. You take public money, you abide by all the laws other public institutions have to abide by.


*Tax changes from local property tax to state income tax receipts and retirement boondoggles are the big ones in Oregon.
 
2012-08-07 01:32:04 PM

meat0918: That's a rather fine distinction there. Are you talking about diverting students into to public school backed trade programs, art schools, computer schools, college prep schools, that sort of thing? I can get behind that. I'd love to see the end of pushing a guy that loves fixing up cars into mechanical engineering when he really just wants to fix cars and would do better in a trade school.


that's part of it but any sort of public school - even "liberal arts" public schools. Granted this there isn't much of a choice in public and suburban areas and those places would have to change how districting is handled but just as parents and students choose which college a child should attend, why should grade and highschool be any different?

meat0918: I have a big problem taking money from cash starved public schools and giving it to private entities that have no accountability to anyone except shareholders/investors. Why they have cash problems is a different issue*, but to say schools are failing and then undercutting them further so they fail a little harder is shortsighted, self-serving, and damaging to our country.


I think maybe the issue is that I am speaking from the perspective of an urban school system where there are many choices in a much more concentrated area. It doesn't have to include private school vouchers.
 
2012-08-07 01:32:16 PM
When Christians arrived in America, they noticed that the pagan Indians were cold without Christ's Love. So they gave the Indians blankets and Bibles.
 
2012-08-07 01:33:08 PM

sprawl15: skullkrusher: Allowing parents choice in which public school they wish their children to attend is a way to improve public schools.

There's a pretty big distinction between allowing people to choose and paying them to go elsewhere.


great. I didn't say the latter.
 
2012-08-07 01:34:09 PM

skullkrusher: just as parents and students choose which college a child should attend, why should grade and highschool be any different?


That's fine, if they want to foot the bill on their own like they do for college.
 
2012-08-07 01:34:25 PM
omfg shut sup shut up shut the goddamn hell UP. Every time you ridiculous fundies advocate for remarkably stupid crap like this, you set the cause back God knows how many steps for those of us out here who are actively working to remind folks that people of faith aren't all morons. Get out of government, PLEASE. You don't understand any aspect of it, you don't adapt, you don't evolve, you just sit on your uneducated and ignorant asses dedicated to being completely proud of your subservience to a god who DEMANDED THAT YOU RECOGNIZE HIS DIVINITY IN THE CHANGES THAT SURROUND YOU. You should be on your knees every damn night thanking him for the brilliance of the sciences, the arts, and the mathematics that have allowed us as a society to progress and also to allow you idiots things like the Web, TV, radio, and numerous other mediums that have allowed you to get your utterly ignorant words out there for everyone to consume. But nope, you want to argue for a flawed book codified by a group of political halfwits who were more interested in empire building than actually studying gospels and applying them to life. So hoo-goddamn-ray.. you got your wish... your utter idiocy is now enshrined into the constitution of the state of Louisiana and now you get to have the public fund your absolutely irrelevant stupidity. Thanks assholes, my job just got harder.

/considering moving to LA just so I can fight these idiots directly.
//sorry for the rant, btw.
 
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