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(Hardball Talk)   Barry Bonds: I belong in the Hall of Fame   (hardballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 132
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963 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Aug 2012 at 11:33 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-07 10:07:32 AM
and I deserve to win the lottery too, you roided up cheat.
 
2012-08-07 10:10:59 AM
I deserve more BJs from my wife, but I ain't getting that either.
 
2012-08-07 10:20:14 AM
Eventually, sure, nothing stopping you. But it is a long drive, believe me. 20 miles from 88, 30 from the Thruway, but going by the Thruway is shorter from Albany. Getting to Albany sucks, though.
 
2012-08-07 10:50:10 AM
Maybe if you hadn't spent your career being such a dick

/in fairness, Ty Cobb was a dick, too
//but at least he wasn't a 'roided up dick
///Giants fan
 
2012-08-07 11:07:20 AM
I have an intense dislike of Barry Bonds. Why? Because the guy would have been a Hall of Famer BEFORE he started doing steroids. He was jealous of the attention that McGuire and Sosa were getting for home run race. It wasn't good enough that he was one of the top players in the game for a long time before he roided up. He was always a self-centered jackass, but he amped it up a level when he started doing steroids so he would be the center of attention. Fark him, I hope the writers never vote him in.
 
2012-08-07 11:30:16 AM

slayer199: I have an intense dislike of Barry Bonds. Why? Because the guy would have been a Hall of Famer BEFORE he started doing steroids. He was jealous of the attention that McGuire and Sosa were getting for home run race. It wasn't good enough that he was one of the top players in the game for a long time before he roided up. He was always a self-centered jackass, but he amped it up a level when he started doing steroids so he would be the center of attention. Fark him, I hope the writers never vote him in.


yeah that's the real tragedy. he would have had obscene career numbers in multiple categories if he had just kept doing what he was doing instead of becoming so obsessed with hitting for power.
 
2012-08-07 11:33:43 AM
No.
 
2012-08-07 11:34:36 AM
He's not wrong.
 
2012-08-07 11:35:50 AM
I think that Bonds does belong in the Hall of Fame. But I think McGwire, Sosa, etc. should be in despite everything so maybe I'm not the one to go by. That said, unlike those guys, I think that Bonds would have certainly had a good enough career to make it even without the steroids.

/Clemens too, even though he's one of the few athletes I actually hate
 
2012-08-07 11:39:28 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: and I deserve to win the lottery too, you roided up cheat.


Done. In. One.
 
2012-08-07 11:39:30 AM
PETE ROSE!!
 
2012-08-07 11:39:53 AM
I met him when he was in Pittsburgh, when he was skinny. He was a total dick then. The roids took him to a whole new level of dickheadedness.

However, he could sure hit the ball. Karma's a biatch.
 
2012-08-07 11:40:05 AM

FreakinB: I think that Bonds does belong in the Hall of Fame. But I think McGwire, Sosa, etc. should be in despite everything so maybe I'm not the one to go by. That said, unlike those guys, I think that Bonds would have certainly had a good enough career to make it even without the steroids.

/Clemens too, even though he's one of the few athletes I actually hate


This to the nth degree

//The day the Baseball Hall of Fame removes Ty Cobb as member is the day they can claim moral superiority. Until then, numbers are all that should matter.
 
2012-08-07 11:40:06 AM
Give all the roiders a special wing in the HoF. Make them an exhibit but not enshrined members.
 
2012-08-07 11:40:31 AM
If you don't put Bonds in the hall of fame you might as well lock the doors and send everyone home. He cheated. So did most of this generation, and most of the guys in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s too. He out performed the hell out of the rest of the cheats.
 
2012-08-07 11:45:30 AM

you have pee hands: If you don't put Bonds in the hall of fame you might as well lock the doors and send everyone home. He cheated. So did most of this generation, and most of the guys in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s too. He out performed the hell out of the rest of the cheats.


This sums up my feelings on the subject.
 
2012-08-07 11:45:42 AM
Give him ribbons, ribbons of shame.

www.crawfordsworld.com
 
2012-08-07 11:46:19 AM
He was happy Roger Clemens was acquitted and thinks everyone needs to lay off him. Personally, Bonds said he "will go to the end of the earth for that man."

Well, there's the door; end of the earth is thataway.
 
2012-08-07 11:46:28 AM
Barry Bonds deserves to be in the Hall of Fame as much as Osama Bin Laden deserved the Nobel Peace Prize.
 
2012-08-07 11:46:41 AM
You know, I'm not the biggest baseball fan in the world, but I am experienced in the world of steroids and performance enhancers. I don't condone or decry anyone using them. It's a decision and athlete makes and if he gets caught, then sucks to be them.

I do have some issues with this though.

Firstly, steroids may have given him the ability to get bigger and stronger than he should have naturally been, but it didn't make him hit .370 in a season. It didn't make him more able to hit homeruns and have absolutely insane OBA and Slugging %.

Secondly, while he is a dick, comparing him to Ty Cobb is just unfair. From what I've read, Ty Cobb may not have been a 'roided up cheat, but he was borderline insane and violent.

So yeah, Bonds gained an advantage using steroids. I don't know how unfair it was, given that evidence suggest a majority of MLB players at his level were probably also on some level of performance enhancers. He was still one of the best offensive players ever and deserves to be in the Hall.
 
2012-08-07 11:47:36 AM

roc6783: FreakinB: I think that Bonds does belong in the Hall of Fame. But I think McGwire, Sosa, etc. should be in despite everything so maybe I'm not the one to go by. That said, unlike those guys, I think that Bonds would have certainly had a good enough career to make it even without the steroids.

/Clemens too, even though he's one of the few athletes I actually hate

This to the nth degree

//The day the Baseball Hall of Fame removes Ty Cobb as member is the day they can claim moral superiority. Until then, numbers are all that should matter.


Exactly. I look at the Hall of Fame as the museum of baseball. Given that, I find it ridiculous to keep out guys that - despite whatever transgressions - mattered the most. If you want to make a note of it on the plaques or something like that then fine, but I think it's silly and petty to not acknowledge them at all.

Based on that reasoning I've come around to wanting Pete Rose in too, though I think there's more of a justification for keeping him out than there is for the steroids guys. That one rule was unambiguous and posted for decades, unlike the steroids rules. But like I said, to ignore him completely doesn't sit well with me.
 
2012-08-07 11:48:19 AM
I just want Clemens in the same boat as Bonds. That's all.

They both get in? Cool. They're both kept out? Cool.

Personally, I say you go "gee, the steroid era was kinda silly" and let them all in. I'm not THAT pissed that Bonds juiced a ton while hitting off pitchers that were juicing a ton. The 70s had amphetamines everywhere. There's Gaylord Perry.

But if Clemens gets in and Bonds is kept out, I'll be enraged.

/add shoeless joe first.
 
2012-08-07 11:49:51 AM
I always liked Barry Bonds ...
 
2012-08-07 11:50:36 AM
How many of the pitchers he faced were also cheating?
 
2012-08-07 11:51:01 AM

slayer199: I have an intense dislike of Barry Bonds. Why? Because the guy would have been a Hall of Famer BEFORE he started doing steroids. He was jealous of the attention that McGuire and Sosa were getting for home run race. It wasn't good enough that he was one of the top players in the game for a long time before he roided up. He was always a self-centered jackass, but he amped it up a level when he started doing steroids so he would be the center of attention. Fark him, I hope the writers never vote him in.


See, that is the only thing that makes me even a bit sympathetic for Bonds. He was a better player than McGwire or Sosa, and in that 1998 season, he was arguable the best all around player in the game - the dude hit .303/.438 /.609 with a 178 OPS+, ripped 27 HR, stole 28 bases, and was very good defensively. He led his team into a 1 game playoff for the NL wild card. And yet he was 8th (EIGHTH!!!!!!) in the MVP balloting.

So Bonds watched while those two guys were cheating their way to one of the game's most cherished records. Even though he was twice as good, they were the ones getting all the praise. He was the one we should have been praising in 1998, we just didn't know it at the time.
 
2012-08-07 11:53:44 AM
You know, I actually agree that he belongs in the Hall of Fame, just not for the reason Bonds thinks he does. Set up a wing devoted to cheating and other corrupt practices in the game, to serve as a reminder and a warning that the sport is not immune to such things, highlighting the Black Sox scandal, the whole Pete Rose affair, and, yes, the steroids. Put Barry Bonds in there too.
 
2012-08-07 11:55:48 AM
And if Rose didn't cheat as a manager he'd be in as a player. What's the point?

There's a lot of "what if's" in the world that doesn't mean you take that road in hind sight.

What if my cock were 12 inches and able to get erect on command? I'd be a porn star and not an IT guy, doesn't mean I get to win an AVN award because I "could have won it if things were different".
 
2012-08-07 11:56:30 AM

Rex_Banner: So Bonds watched while those two guys were cheating their way to one of the game's most cherished records. Even though he was twice as good, they were the ones getting all the praise. He was the one we should have been praising in 1998, we just didn't know it at the time.


The problem is that his ego was greater than his common sense. He would have been a shoo-in for the HoF without steroids. Even if he gets in, his legacy will be forever tainted because of steroids.
 
2012-08-07 11:59:22 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-07 12:00:29 PM

slayer199: Rex_Banner: So Bonds watched while those two guys were cheating their way to one of the game's most cherished records. Even though he was twice as good, they were the ones getting all the praise. He was the one we should have been praising in 1998, we just didn't know it at the time.

The problem is that his ego was greater than his common sense. He would have been a shoo-in for the HoF without steroids. Even if he gets in, his legacy will be forever tainted because of steroids.


Oh I agree, but to me that is the sad part of the story. The guy was great without the juice, and it sucks that this will be forgotten.
 
2012-08-07 12:01:11 PM
Bonds you and the rest of the roid crew can get in one year after Pete rose does.

I firmly believe betting on baseball is a lesser crime than using PEDs.
 
2012-08-07 12:05:48 PM
This will help you get in, Barry.
 
2012-08-07 12:06:06 PM

grimlock1972: Bonds you and the rest of the roid crew can get in one year after Pete rose does.

I firmly believe betting on baseball is a lesser crime than using PEDs.


What about amphetamines before games?

You'd have to toss out an entire decade of the HoF. Certainly, amphetamines enhanced performance.

What about spitballs?
 
2012-08-07 12:19:03 PM
He will be. Eventually the HoF will have to acknowledge that it's really a museum of baseball history, and there will be a section devoted to the steroid era.

Perhaps they'll call it the "Hall of Shame" or "Cheaters Row".
 
2012-08-07 12:20:33 PM
As a lifelong Giants fan and a guy who went to the same high school as Bonds (13 years later) I can say he was a dick in High school, a dick as a Giant and a cheat. Thank god the Giants didn't win the 2002 world series cause all we would have heard was that we cheated. No Barry, you don't belong in the HOF, you don't deserve to be a part of the Giants organization today, and we are better off forgetting you ever existed.

We didn't like you then and we don't like you now
 
2012-08-07 12:21:07 PM
May we all get what we want
and none of us get what we deserve

/my favorite toast
 
2012-08-07 12:21:13 PM
Looks like he stopped eating cheeseburgers:

i.usatoday.net

Link
 
2012-08-07 12:21:58 PM
No you don't.

Sincerely,
Society
 
2012-08-07 12:23:19 PM

coeyagi: Give him ribbons, ribbons of shame.

[www.crawfordsworld.com image 349x250]


I'd wear those on the inside if I were you.
 
2012-08-07 12:27:14 PM
I'm getting a weird vibe over his feelings for Clemens.
/nttawwt
 
2012-08-07 12:33:04 PM
Wise_Guy
Looks like he stopped eating cheeseburgers:


No, he just doesnt have to juice anymore now that he's not playing. Bonds will be kept out of the Hall for two reasons 1) the roids 2) he was a world-class prick to the media his whole career, which was really a tactical error on his part seeing as how they are the ones who vote you into Cooperstown

/No cheaters in the HoF
//let Rose in
///and Tim Raines
 
2012-08-07 12:33:11 PM

Wise_Guy: Looks like he stopped eating cheeseburgers:



wow. i heard (here, i think) about his newfound love for cycling and his weight loss, but.....

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.

that's gotta be, what, 30lbs? if not 35-40? he was massive and there, he looks like 180 or so.
 
rka
2012-08-07 12:34:21 PM

you have pee hands: If you don't put Bonds in the hall of fame you might as well lock the doors and send everyone home. He cheated. So did most of this generation, and most of the guys in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s too. He out performed the hell out of the rest of the cheats.


Why should writers of today be bound by the "lets look the other way" attitude of writers in the past?

Precedent? fark precedent. No one is bound by precedent.

You want to throw out the greenie poppers of yesteryear? Fine by me.
 
2012-08-07 12:35:16 PM
Pete Rose...
 
2012-08-07 12:36:43 PM
Buy a ticket like the rest of us.
 
2012-08-07 12:37:51 PM
As much as I follow baseball, I really don't care for the "pageantry" of it ("America's pastime, blah blah"), nor the "sanctity" of the HoF.

I have my opinion(s), but how I view the sport depending on whether Bonds gets in, or even Rose at some point, really won't change.
 
rka
2012-08-07 12:38:45 PM

DBart81: It didn't make him more able to hit homeruns


Then why did he do it?

Cmon, Sosa, McQwire and Bonds go on insane HR streaks just when they are taking roids and that's just some weird coincidence?

Bonds was good. He wasn't 73 HR a year good. You can say live ball, poor pitching ...whatever, all you want. But it's a bit of a stretch to say those three all had historical HR years and that steroids didn't play a part.
 
2012-08-07 12:44:02 PM

zarberg: Give all the roiders a special wing in the HoF. Make them an exhibit but not enshrined members.


I'd even be alright with enshrining them, but the separate wing is probably the best idea I've heard over the past few years. Much better than the "don't let them in" that essentially ignores a pretty important period in baseball's history and many of the best players in that period.

I suppose I'd be alright with omitting those who tested positive under MLB's comprehensive testing policy, but bear in mind that that only began in 2003. So, going back before that time period, the only evidence you have is those players who admitted to PED use. It's certainly unfair to bar a guy because you think he did. Furthermore, what of the guys who cheated and got away with it? There's even more incentive for them to keep quiet, knowing that an admission of guilt would forever taint their chances of entry to the Hall. And lastly, what of players who are already in who potentially used? Somewhere out there, there's probably a lunatic who thinks Ken Griffey, Jr. doesn't belong in the HoF simply because he hit HRs at a prodigious rate at the same time when a bunch of juiced up guys were doing the same thing.

For everyone that wants to play the "cheaters" card, what about those players who used "greenies" (a harmless-sounding name for amphetamines)? If you believe Jim Bouton, it sounds like there were quite a few players in his day.

In short, the options are to keep everyone out, and conduct a massive witch hunt for anyone whose ever cheated in baseball, or allow those who did use in the Hall. There's no room for waffling on the subject--player A didn't cheat as badly as player B, so he's in. The problem, then, with barring any and all cheaters, is that you'll end up with guys who weren't necessarily the best at what they did. That's why I wouldn't have a problem voting in Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc. I also wouldn't have a problem, as I said at the top, with putting these guys in a separate exhibition, or even putting some note on their plaque that they were guilty or suspected of PED use during their career. The Hall, after all, is a museum dedicated to preserving the history of the sport of baseball in this country.
 
2012-08-07 12:44:21 PM
As a lifelong resident of Cincinnati, I go against the grain in that I support Pete Rose being banned for life on the grounds that he was stupid and arrogant. If you walk by a sign in the clubhouse every day that says 'If you bet on baseball, you will be banned for life', and then bet on baseball you should be banned for life.

Bonds made it a point to be universally hated, so it shouldn't surprise him that he's universally hated.

There are no moral absolutes though. Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb THREW games, and they're in.
 
2012-08-07 12:47:51 PM

rickythepenguin: Wise_Guy: Looks like he stopped eating cheeseburgers:


wow. i heard (here, i think) about his newfound love for cycling and his weight loss, but.....

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.

that's gotta be, what, 30lbs? if not 35-40? he was massive and there, he looks like 180 or so.


Lance Armstrong was his trainer.
 
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