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(Digital Spy)   Matt Lauer says "Indian giver" live on The Today Show, comes under fire from various organizations. If only he could take it back   ( digitalspy.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Matt Lauer, Stella McCartney, Meredith Vieira  
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3737 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 07 Aug 2012 at 6:30 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-07 12:03:57 PM  

cig-mkr: Onkel Buck: cig-mkr: Onkel Buck: cig-mkr: Indian giver, queer as a three dollar bill, ni**er rich, drunk as a sailor, aren't these all passe' ?
I'm sure there are plenty more examples, but who even says things like that anymore, Jeeze.

I hear these all the time, but I live in this south so there's that. My current favorite is "ugly as homemade soap."

Well bless your heart, my current favorite is "Ugly as a bag of smashed assholes, with the pretty ones taken out"
but I live in the south too......

Do what? Ive heard smelly as a bag of assholes but not the one you mentioned. Guess I dont have enough sand in my shoes yet, since Im a damn yankee transplant

How about "I don't have a dog in that fight" ?
Yankee transplant too, 1/2 my life in the northeast and 1/2 south of the Mason-Dixon


My barracks roomie was from Tenn. and we were Alabama. He's the first person I ever heard say that. He also used to ask this a lot- "Was it any count?" I guess it meant "was it any good." I grew up near Detroit and I had never heard any of those sayings eh?
 
2012-08-07 12:12:34 PM  
www.coyotescorner.com
 
2012-08-07 12:28:21 PM  
Why is this term offensive towards Native Americans? Is it because they are not "Indian"?

Shouldn't white people be offended since it is a derogatory term based on their actions?
 
2012-08-07 12:34:11 PM  

srhp29: Why is this term offensive towards Native Americans? Is it because they are not "Indian"?

Shouldn't white people be offended since it is a derogatory term based on their actions?


Man, all these years and I thought Indian Giver referred to whites treatment of the natives. Maybe Matt did too and since he is white, it's cool. It's like a black fella saying the N word.
 
2012-08-07 12:37:27 PM  

ShawnDoc: Growing up, I always thought this was a comment on how the US Government would "give" land to the Indians via treaty, and then take it back when settlers wanted it or oil/gold/whatever was discovered on it.

But apparently that's wrong.


No, that sounds right, but everyone wanted it to be offensive because it contains the word 'Indian'. People love finding out words or phrases are offensive so they can reply with their pre-programmed response when someone says it. It's a great way to make yourself appear more educated/socially conscious than the person you're 'correcting'.
 
2012-08-07 12:49:19 PM  

PYROY: ShawnDoc: Growing up, I always thought this was a comment on how the US Government would "give" land to the Indians via treaty, and then take it back when settlers wanted it or oil/gold/whatever was discovered on it.

But apparently that's wrong.

No, that sounds right, but everyone wanted it to be offensive because it contains the word 'Indian'. People love finding out words or phrases are offensive so they can reply with their pre-programmed response when someone says it. It's a great way to make yourself appear more educated/socially conscious than the person you're 'correcting'.


THIS
 
2012-08-07 12:51:05 PM  

thamike: The term "Indian giver" refers to someone who gives a present and then wants it back, and is offensive to Native Americans.

"Indian giver" comes from "Indian gift" the practice of "equal trade." It started off as a way for white people to understand that this was a transaction. So in order for it to make any kind of sense as an insult, the giver in question would be the one giving to and taking from the Indian, not the other way around. Anybody could tell you that the only people who have ever been consistently screwed on transactions and gifts are the Native Americans, not the Anglos.

But yeah, as mentioned above, who the hell says "Indian giver?"


There ain't a Chinaman's chance in hell anyone here uses it.
 
2012-08-07 12:56:44 PM  
Takin' it back!

PORCH MONKEY 4 LIFE
 
2012-08-07 01:04:42 PM  
OH GOD I'M SO OFFENDED I CAN BARELY STAND IT
 
2012-08-07 01:08:18 PM  

give me doughnuts: Takin' it back!

PORCH MONKEY 4 LIFE


I have seen on discussion threads for my local newspaper that "porch hugger" is also offensive to people. Whats wrong with the word porch? Is there some historical thing I don't know about? Did only a certain group of people have porches at one time?
 
2012-08-07 01:12:47 PM  
I remember Louis Farrakhan complaining that when his people want to wear bling, they have to put on jewelry. He found that offensive.

Indian who drink tea make teepee.
 
2012-08-07 01:41:16 PM  

give me doughnuts: Takin' it back!

PORCH MONKEY 4 LIFE


Thank you... Been waiting for that all morning :)
 
2012-08-07 01:49:18 PM  
Oops
 
2012-08-07 01:54:31 PM  

ginandbacon: Ed Finnerty: What an uncultured fool. The proper term is Native-American giver.

First Nations giver. Please.


Actually the Salutreans were technically here first (as recently discovered) so they can't claim first nations status anymore.
 
2012-08-07 02:27:56 PM  
Once again, I'd like to make my assertion that Native American porn is rare, for some reason.

Coyote Doyenne aside, I mean.


I guess there's a taboo associated with it within the community that transcends the social forces that normally send young girls down that path.
 
2012-08-07 02:40:14 PM  

Whiteston: Actually the Salutreans were technically here first (as recently discovered) so they can't claim first nations status anymore.


I usually see it spelled Solutreans.

/ not to be confused with the Silurians who were here before us monkeymen.
 
2012-08-07 03:35:48 PM  

rooftop235: PYROY: ShawnDoc: Growing up, I always thought this was a comment on how the US Government would "give" land to the Indians via treaty, and then take it back when settlers wanted it or oil/gold/whatever was discovered on it.

But apparently that's wrong.

No, that sounds right, but everyone wanted it to be offensive because it contains the word 'Indian'. People love finding out words or phrases are offensive so they can reply with their pre-programmed response when someone says it. It's a great way to make yourself appear more educated/socially conscious than the person you're 'correcting'.

THIS


Bears Repeating

THIS

 
2012-08-07 04:01:19 PM  

PYROY: People love finding out words or phrases are offensive so they can reply with their pre-programmed response when someone says it. It's a great way to make yourself appear more educated/socially conscious than the person you're 'correcting'.


Like the supposedly educated school boards in California and Florida who each called for the head of teacher in their respective district who properly used the word nubianrdly (the etymology of which is devoid of any racial or ethnic elements) to mean stingy or miserly.
 
2012-08-07 04:31:33 PM  

omeganuepsilon: Bears Repeating


Sounds like a good Kiowa name to me.

Looks like I get to update my SARS Blanket gift list again. I'm also offering SARS Slankets, SARS Snuggies, SARS Sham-Wows, and SARS Saarsgard's SARS-Guards.
 
2012-08-07 04:44:06 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Whiteston: Actually the Salutreans were technically here first (as recently discovered) so they can't claim first nations status anymore.

I usually see it spelled Solutreans.

/ not to be confused with the Silurians who were here before us monkeymen.


hmmm.....Soultrainians? Why you so racist?
 
2012-08-07 04:49:55 PM  
I scanned this whole thread looking for Dro. I guess Indians just aren't dark enough to get his ire up.
 
2012-08-07 05:01:30 PM  
I thought when he said that Meridith Viera carried carried her panties in every morning for 5 years (When they were together on Today) was better.
 
2012-08-07 05:17:35 PM  

Seven Mason: I thought when he said that Meridith Viera carried carried her panties in every morning for 5 years (When they were together on Today) was better.


She even has any? Isn't free-balling part of her schtick?
 
2012-08-07 05:49:34 PM  

stoli n coke: shotglasss: Lauer's a lib, he'll just walk away from it and the rest of the media will say nothing about his racist remark.

If a Republican had said this, Lauer would be one of the first to demand he resign in disgrace.

I live with my mom. You're actually stealing randomjsa's schtick? That's worse than Carlos Mencia.


Knowing randomjsa, he is randomjsa.
 
2012-08-07 06:05:25 PM  
He should have just said "don't be nubianrdly" and avoided the whole fiasco.
 
2012-08-07 06:12:59 PM  

HatMadeOfAss: I scanned this whole thread looking for Dro. I guess Indians just aren't dark enough to get his ire up.


Here I'll throw him some ammo
Notable People of African-Native American mixture
 
2012-08-07 07:19:19 PM  
NEWSFLASH! Douchebag says douchey things.
 
2012-08-07 07:41:23 PM  
Well, Lauer gypped us out of a good experience watching the opening ceremonies of the Olympics with his dumb-ass commentary, so I'm not too upset to see him getting in trouble.
 
2012-08-07 07:43:36 PM  
huh, like others on the board, it seems like I found the phrase "Indian Giver" to be a descriptor for how the white-dudes poorly treated the Indians, as opposed to a slur against yknow, actual Native Americans.
 
2012-08-07 08:16:30 PM  
I trying to figure out how this affects me.
 
2012-08-07 09:05:42 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Damn Fark and the lack of an edit button a preview option before you hit Add Comment.


Wait, what?
 
2012-08-07 09:34:01 PM  

coco ebert: I'd never even heard of that phrase.


Then I think it's time to return your degree in cultural anthropology.
 
2012-08-07 10:36:58 PM  
Wtf are you people talking about? Historically the phrase is an offensive term regarding native americans, even if you don't use it as such, or know people that don't use it as such because they don't understand how it was originally intended by the majority of people. People that actually understand how the phrase was historically intended, and still is intended by a lot of people, are liable to be offended because they don't know you're using it in an ignorant manner. Most people that use the term don't know the history, just the implied meaning.

It always implied that native americans will give you a gift and then take it back. Whether that belief is due to a misunderstanding and ignorance by white people, and makes white people look stupid in hindsight when you discover the actual situation, doesn't matter because the actual intent of the phrase is not to belittle white people, it's to belittle natives.

Arguing that it's more offensive against white people, is as silly as Randal in Clerks arguing that "porch monkey" isn't actually racist because his intended meaning differs from general usage. The term is and always has been meant to imply a negative stereotype to native americans, and shame the person it's applied to by comparing them to an uncouth and uncivilized "indian".
 
2012-08-07 10:47:35 PM  

Ihaveanevilparrot: the actual intent of the phrase is not to belittle white people, it's to belittle natives.


I think the actual intent, while being used by Matt Lauerish types, is to jovially rib their on-air co-personalities. It's not as if he referred to the Washington Redskins in less than glowing praise. I feel sympathy for the white man that sportscasts a Redskins game. You are going to hell either way.
 
2012-08-07 10:52:57 PM  

Ihaveanevilparrot: s as silly as Randal in Clerks arguing that "porch monkey" isn't actually racist because his intended meaning differs from general usage


just wondering, but what if the "general usage" changes. as an example, "gay". everyone i knew when i was a child laughed or was confused when watching the opening of the Flinstones. this was in the late 80's. i always felt this was more the point of Randal and Dante's exchange.

on that note, it always seemed the better way of slurs. take it back, not just for the person, but everyone, and belittle any meaning. i know it's a small sample of a laid back-ish area (southern Pacific), but i haven't seen any fights break out because someone's been called a Honky, or Cracker. mainly just laughs.

actually, i am just going back to quoting Stan from South Park, "I don't know".
 
2012-08-07 11:26:04 PM  

R.P.M.: just wondering, but what if the "general usage" changes. as an example, "gay". everyone i knew when i was a child laughed or was confused when watching the opening of the Flinstones. this was in the late 80's. i always felt this was more the point of Randal and Dante's exchange.


Obviously usage can change. But there are still too many people around that know the original connotation to use it and not expect anyone to take offense. And until a new usage of a word or phrase is absorbed into general society you cannot use that term and expect it to be interpreted in a non-racial manner.
Definitions of words and phrases change by being used in a different manner, or as slang, by a specific group and their peers, and then being accepted by outsiders and coming into general usage. As far as I know "indian giver" isn't commonly used anymore, and I don't see an alternate definition being listed, so the current interpretation by people that understand the phrase is likely to be negative.

Randal and Dante's exchange demonstrates this. "Porch monkey" has always been and is still largely a racial slur, and you can't suddenly start using that kind of phrase to mean something else when most people that understand the common meaning are going to interpret it as a racial slur. The other point is that only Randal interpreted the phrase as non-racial, since he does admit that his grandmother actually was kind of a racist..

Matt Lauer is on national television. There's no reason for him to be using such a term when it has negative connotations for a specific group of people and isn't widely used to mean something else.
 
2012-08-07 11:29:48 PM  

Ihaveanevilparrot: Wtf are you people talking about? Historically the phrase is an offensive term regarding native americans, even if you don't use it as such, or know people that don't use it as such because they don't understand how it was originally intended by the majority of people. People that actually understand how the phrase was historically intended, and still is intended by a lot of people, are liable to be offended because they don't know you're using it in an ignorant manner. Most people that use the term don't know the history, just the implied meaning.

It always implied that native americans will give you a gift and then take it back. Whether that belief is due to a misunderstanding and ignorance by white people, and makes white people look stupid in hindsight when you discover the actual situation, doesn't matter because the actual intent of the phrase is not to belittle white people, it's to belittle natives.

Arguing that it's more offensive against white people, is as silly as Randal in Clerks arguing that "porch monkey" isn't actually racist because his intended meaning differs from general usage. The term is and always has been meant to imply a negative stereotype to native americans, and shame the person it's applied to by comparing them to an uncouth and uncivilized "indian".


Wow. You've given this a lotta thought.

I wonder what Randall really meant by "buncha savages in this town!" in Clerks 1
 
2012-08-07 11:37:49 PM  

R.P.M.: but i haven't seen any fights break out because someone's been called a Honky, or Cracker. mainly just laughs.


You'd have a point if black people were ever the majority here and white people were ever the mistreated and persecuted minority.

The minority cannot demean the majority in the same way that the majority can demean the minority. That's why honky and cracker never had the same effect on white people as the N word had on black people. If a black person calls me a honky or cracker it's not reminiscent of years of suffering, persecution, abuse and slavery. It's no more insulting than "white trash". Those words aren't remotely similar to demeaning words and phrases that were historically used by white people to imply a specific minority are inherently not worthy of inclusion in "civilized" society.
 
2012-08-07 11:47:58 PM  

John Buck 41: Wow. You've given this a lotta thought.

I wonder what Randall really meant by "buncha savages in this town!" in Clerks 1


I simply gave an explanation based on my knowledge, and then compared various posts to the musings of a naive fictional character.

If you think that was somehow intended to demonstrate a deep interpretation of clerks II I'm not really sure what to say, other than lay off the bong. :\
 
2012-08-08 12:08:58 AM  

Ihaveanevilparrot: If a black person calls me a honky or cracker it's not reminiscent of years of suffering, persecution, abuse and slavery. It's no more insulting than "white trash".


i totally can see the point of the 1st part, but the second sentence makes the way too logical part of my brain second guess it. for me most racial slurs (mot insults. i know that seems contradictory, but am canceling things like Camel Jockeys and other such things...i hated typing that.) actually mean the nationality (not saying there isn't hate in them). the K word means a Jewish person, N word means a Black person, S word means a person from China, Japan, or any people that have eyes that may look a certain way, ect. there is a reason that people say someone was a "dumb N word", or a "Cheap K word". they have to add some value. (again, people can add meaning to whatever they think, but in the end, for example, people (that suck) could call someone like Tiger Woods the N word, but also call someone that has no similarities except for the colour of their skin the same thing. hence it really at it's base means Black more or less).

now the second sentence slur has a qualifier: Trash. would the N word or the "slur" Black Trash be worse? i can't say, but until the dictionary defines the N word as "a horrible person below stature", the second one (again, i am looking at this way logically, i can not say anything opinion wise, or emotionally) seems worse because it has a qualifier.

by the way, i hope i don't come across as acting anything but enjoying a conversation. i think talk on this is fascinating. also i hope Louis CK didn't read my post because he would hate me for putting dirty words in his head.
 
2012-08-08 12:37:30 AM  

R.P.M.: by the way, i hope i don't come across as acting anything but enjoying a conversation. i think talk on this is fascinating. also i hope Louis CK didn't read my post because he would hate me for putting dirty words in his head.


No. Not at all :).

The thing is though, those words do have other connotations than you suggest. It does depend on who uses them and how they outwardly appear to intend it, but the fact is a white person doesn't call a black person the N word without those other connotations. Even if they don't truly believe it themselves, the ONLY reason to insultingly use it directly toward a black person is if you want to cause extreme hurt feelings and anger due to the historical connotations. It doesn't NEED a qualifier like dumb, even if someone uses one redundantly, because the N word already implies the person is stupid.

And personally I can without a doubt say the K word doesn't just mean a jewish person when someone directs it at you, nor is it taken that way. As someone who grew up in a jewish family, the K word is only used by someone that means to imply jews are lesser people. If a random person calls me that, and I think other jews would agree, it's WAY more insulting than something like white trash, since it also implies the person is anti-semitic, given not many other people use the word commonly.
And much like the N word I've heard jewish people say it to each other jokingly, the same way a black person might use the N word toward a black friend, but it's not intended remotely the same as an outsider doing it.

You're being way too literal. Insults are largely defined by who uses them toward who, and how the culture or race they're directed at take it.
A spade means a garden implement. But if I call a black person that they're sure as hell not going to assume that's what I mean and laugh it off.
 
2012-08-08 12:47:34 AM  

R.P.M.: i can't say, but until the dictionary defines the N word as "a horrible person below stature", the second one (again, i am looking at this way logically, i can not say anything opinion wise, or emotionally) seems worse because it has a qualifier.


That is one of the literal definitions of the N word.

Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive . a person of any race or origin regarded as contemptible, inferior, ignorant, etc.

Hence the term Sand N***er.

It's certainly not used to simply imply someone that lives in a sandy area with dark skin.

It's used to imply that middle easterners are just as inferior and stupid as someone that would use that term considers a black person.
 
2012-08-08 01:38:49 AM  
"Sorry! Sorry! 'Native American' giver."
 
2012-08-08 03:22:50 AM  

Ihaveanevilparrot: R.P.M.: i can't say, but until the dictionary defines the N word as "a horrible person below stature", the second one (again, i am looking at this way logically, i can not say anything opinion wise, or emotionally) seems worse because it has a qualifier.

That is one of the literal definitions of the N word.

Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive . a person of any race or origin regarded as contemptible, inferior, ignorant, etc.

Hence the term Sand N***er.

It's certainly not used to simply imply someone that lives in a sandy area with dark skin.

It's used to imply that middle easterners are just as inferior and stupid as someone that would use that term considers a black person.


that is a good thought. i honestly thought that it was used because they are "darker" skinned, and live in the "sand". most racial slurs just make me think "huh? how'd they come up with that?"...then search google.

i do totally agree that it comes down to the intention and what the person receiving it thinks, which is maybe why i can never understand it totally. when i was a kid and pudgy i would rather be called a cracker than fat, because it actually has a physical "bad" thing (white (which is a skin colour that i can't change) or overwieght (something i can)).

i think it would be an interesting study to have everyone laugh or agree to any racial slurs just to take the "power" away. the only reason people say them (to my knowledge. i really haven't heard anyone say slurs to people, but that me be because of my living area) is to insult and/or get a reaction. i think it would damage the words if people smiled and said "thanks!" the bragging exchange would be interesting:
"ha, called this guy a N****r!"
"ha! what'd he say?!"
"...thanks!"

granted, i know this is perfect world scenario
 
2012-08-08 04:15:45 PM  

olapbill: [www.coyotescorner.com image 220x195]


The Native Americans in that picture were actually scouting for the US government against other Indian tribes. The one on the far right's actually wearing a US Army jacket.

/themoreyouknow

Oh, and "Indian giver" dates all the way from colonial times, and is definitely derogatory to the Indians. So they have a right to be offended.
 
2012-08-08 11:38:20 PM  
Moron.
 
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