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(Toronto Star)   Blind people are more likely to suffer from light related sleep disorder. Yeah, I know. I don't get it either   (thestar.com) divider line 36
    More: Weird, sleep disorders, blindness, biological clocks, molecular structure, time zones, psychoactive drugs  
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2485 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Aug 2012 at 10:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-06 08:49:45 PM
I don't understand.

Oh, sorry.

I mean I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
 
2012-08-06 09:41:36 PM
Did subby read the article?
Makes sense to me, same thing happens to astronauts, deep sea divers and others that are deprived of their daily re-set.

/and Nadie... thanks for the laugh!
 
2012-08-06 10:21:03 PM
"I do; please seethe Sun..."
 
2012-08-06 10:28:20 PM
What's not to get?

You don't see sunlight. (Yes, you can still detect sunlight in other ways, but they are less precise.) Hence your body cannot fully use sunlight to calibrate itself as to the length of one day. Hence your body does not properly calibrate itself, or at least its chosen calibration doesn't match those of sighted people.

What's so challenging about the concept, Subby? I didn't even need to RTFA to come up with that logic, because it's... well, blindingly obvious.
 
2012-08-06 10:30:09 PM

sno man: Did subby read the article?
Makes sense to me, same thing happens to astronauts, deep sea divers and others that are deprived of their daily re-set.

/and Nadie... thanks for the laugh!


yep, nothing weird about that at all. Makes perfect sense to me that stuff like that happens, and I gots them good eyes and stuff.
 
2012-08-06 10:39:17 PM

Cerebral Knievel:
yep, nothing weird about that at all. Makes perfect sense to me that stuff like that happens, and I gots them good eyes and stuff.


So there's need to look into this any further?
 
2012-08-06 10:41:54 PM
When I was on summer break as a teenager, I synched to a ~25 hour sleep schedule. When it got to the point where I was going to sleep when others in the house were waking up, I'd just stay awake during the day and rough it till 10PM. Wash, rinse, repeat till the start of school. For me it was kinda annoying, and I can only imagine how much it would suck for somebody who had to work during the day.
 
2012-08-06 10:44:20 PM
What an eye opener. yawn
 
2012-08-06 10:44:31 PM
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-08-06 10:48:42 PM
Could you say that again? I couldn't hear you, the sun was in my eyes.
 
2012-08-06 10:48:46 PM
I can't see why
 
2012-08-06 10:56:10 PM
Sync with noise using an alarm which slowly increases volume of ambient sounds? Choose another sense.
 
2012-08-06 11:02:02 PM

Vangor: Sync with noise using an alarm which slowly increases volume of ambient sounds? Choose another sense.


You should really publish your method of rewiring the brain to process auditory stimulus in the visual cortex.
 
2012-08-06 11:04:40 PM
What are you,blind or something?



at any rate I finally got to the point in my life where my perfect eyesight started to fail. it sucks not being able to see things clearly. I'm far from legally blind, but I'm sure many legally blind people can still see light and dark.

Oh, and since there's a legally blind category, is there such a thing as illegally blind?
 
2012-08-06 11:08:19 PM

profplump: You should really publish your method of rewiring the brain to process auditory stimulus in the visual cortex.


From the article:

Though non-24 can affect those with normal vision, it is especially prevalent among blind people who cannot sense light, the strongest environmental signal that synchronizes the brain's sleep-wake pattern to the 24-hour cycle of the Earth day.

I am posing a question, hence the question mark, about the viability of having another environmental signal synchronize this sleep-wake pattern. Is the internal clock reset by light sensing alone or merely primarily due to our physiology and environment?
 
2012-08-06 11:11:49 PM

Vangor: profplump: You should really publish your method of rewiring the brain to process auditory stimulus in the visual cortex.

From the article:

Though non-24 can affect those with normal vision, it is especially prevalent among blind people who cannot sense light, the strongest environmental signal that synchronizes the brain's sleep-wake pattern to the 24-hour cycle of the Earth day.

I am posing a question, hence the question mark, about the viability of having another environmental signal synchronize this sleep-wake pattern. Is the internal clock reset by light sensing alone or merely primarily due to our physiology and environment?


I suggest putting "hence the question mark" closer to the question mark, first of all...;)
 
2012-08-06 11:14:50 PM
As someone who has this (although not blind), it really sucks. I can try going to bed at the same time every night for a week, but as the week progresses, I'll end up staying awake longer and longer (and sleeping in respectively). It's made lots of things difficult over the years, school, work, etc.

Hope the drug trial is successful.
 
2012-08-06 11:16:01 PM

gweilo8888: What's not to get?

You don't see sunlight. (Yes, you can still detect sunlight in other ways, but they are less precise.) Hence your body cannot fully use sunlight to calibrate itself as to the length of one day. Hence your body does not properly calibrate itself, or at least its chosen calibration doesn't match those of sighted people.

What's so challenging about the concept, Subby? I didn't even need to RTFA to come up with that logic, because it's... well, blindingly obvious.


Heh.

Sunlight is absorbed and processed through the skin as well as other ways.
 
2012-08-06 11:21:21 PM
Subby, do you know how hard it is for them to sleep with their sunglasses on?
 
2012-08-06 11:24:06 PM
i.imgur.com
RIP ANNE LANDERS
 
2012-08-06 11:29:38 PM
People compensate for vision loss with increased sensitivity in other senses. The warmth of sunlight is probably a much stronger sensation for someone who is blind.
 
2012-08-06 11:30:17 PM

AbbeySomeone: Heh.

Sunlight is absorbed and processed through the skin as well as other ways.


Heh.

What part of "Yes, you can still detect sunlight in other ways, but they are less precise." did you not understand?
 
2012-08-06 11:39:02 PM
Sunlight stimulates the pineal gland, which is actually located in the skull, behind and I think below the eyes. The pineal gland is what secretes melatonin, which has a direct effect on your sleep-wake cycle. Not enough sunlight = decreased melatonin = sleep problems. As someone who used to work 3d shift, I'm acutely aware of the problems of lack of sunlight.

If "non-24" is more prevalent in blind people, as the article says, it's likely due to lack of external signals alone. Anyone who's ever worked 3d shift knows it takes a week to set yourself to a 12-8 shift, and only one day to throw you back to "normal." 3d shifters can always stay awake when the lights are on, but as soon as it gets dark, out we go.
 
2012-08-06 11:43:10 PM
Just because you can detect sunlight with your skin does not mean it is wired to the correct areas of your brain for cycle control.

I have the opposite problem, my body tries very hard to run on a 21-hour day. About the only time this was okay was when I was in the Navy on a submarine and was standing 1-in-3 watches. My 'day' was effectively 18 hours long and I was fine.
 
2012-08-06 11:43:15 PM

gweilo8888: AbbeySomeone: Heh.

Sunlight is absorbed and processed through the skin as well as other ways.

Heh.

What part of "Yes, you can still detect sunlight in other ways, but they are less precise." did you not understand?


Fark that noise, those blind folk just aint being bootstrappy enough!

Those blind people are just lazy and shifty. they are just using that as an excuse to stay on disability and waste my tax money!
I see that you have drank the kool-aid that the Blind community has been serving up.
 
2012-08-06 11:46:57 PM
I'm nonplussed
 
2012-08-06 11:58:18 PM
oh thought this was gonna be about the blind people who can't cognitively process what their eyes see but still receive some signal from their eyes. Well, guess it sorta is. There are varieties of blindness and not all of them affect circadian rhythm *

I do question - why is this article coming out? To be precise, is it merely coincidence that this article showcases a fancy new drug right around the time it is wrapping up development and lobbying for FDA approval? (and if you're gonna try and say drug approval is an apolitical process, please be convincing) Did some journalist genuinely find out about this person who has a legit problem and in the course of doing background research found that hey, there's this brand new drug that's going to fix this problem for her and everybody else with a sleeping disorder? I guess years of Farking have made me a cynic - it smells more like press-release marketing to me. Like the drug company spoon-fed this story to the news outlet who then rolled with it. Aren't newspapers too poor to hire investigative journalists anymore?

*from wiki (I also read something about it in a book, maybe Blink and/or something by Oliver Sacks, i think i also did some pubmed reading but too lazy to track down those cites....):
The primary circadian "clock" in mammals is located in the suprachiasmatic nucleus (or nuclei) (SCN), a pair of distinct groups of cells located in the hypothalamus. Destruction of the SCN results in the complete absence of a regular sleep-wake rhythm. The SCN receives information about illumination through the eyes. The retina of the eye contains "classical" photoreceptors ("rods" and "cones"), which are used for conventional vision. But the retina also contains specialized ganglion cells which are directly photosensitive, and project directly to the SCN where they help in the entrainment of this master circadian clock.
 
2012-08-07 12:05:21 AM

Gyrfalcon: Anyone who's ever worked 3d shift knows it takes a week to set yourself to a 12-8 shift, and only one day to throw you back to "normal."


I've never worked third shift but I can assure you that I could set my clock to third shift tomorrow in one day, but it would take weeks, if not months, for me to reset to a morning schedule. Different people have different internal clocks, and mine is way longer than 24 hours. I can easily stay up 8 hours past normal bedtime.

/giving up caffeine has helped a lot
 
2012-08-07 12:10:00 AM
"astronauts, deep sea divers and others that are deprived"

well that explains it
 
2012-08-07 12:10:58 AM

Gyrfalcon: Sunlight stimulates the pineal gland.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-07 12:32:00 AM

mudpants: "astronauts, deep sea divers and others that are deprived"

well that explains it


At least those people are only deprived of sunlight...
you quote and type like you are regularly deprived of oxygen...
 
2012-08-07 12:37:52 AM

sno man: you quote and type like you are regularly deprived of oxygen...


img600.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-07 05:04:07 AM

Vangor: Is the internal clock reset by light sensing alone


Sorry to be so accusational; I did not understand your question.

Wake/sleep cycles are not necessarily regulated "alone" by light, but based on available evidence we can clearly say that light is "primarily" responsible, at least in people with normal vision. For example, while the pineal gland is not directly exposed to light in humans, it is still responsible for a significant amount of sleep/wake regulation, and it is still stimulated uniquely by visual activity. And there are other similar examples of strongly positive correlations between light stimulus and wake/sleep patterns, along with strongly indifferent correlations between the same light stimulus and wake/sleep patterns in people with related visual losses.

So in short yes, vision is unique in terms of this particular regulation, and the causes appear to be physiological in nature, as opposed to psychological. Obviously such observations are subject to the current limitations of neuroscience, but I don't think I'm making any leap in accepted consensus to say that light exposure is uniquely related to sleep/wake cycles in humans in a way that's not clearly related to culture/training/etc.
 
2012-08-07 05:35:29 AM
what if you're NATURALLY a "LIGHT" SLEEPER
 
2012-08-07 08:49:39 AM
Much of the work is done in other areas of the brain before data makes it to your visual cortex. many automatic systems in the brain are still working even if you can't see.
Interestingly it is possible to observe this strange effect. Ever watch Mr Magoo? The visual cortex can be destroyed but other processes are there and operating as normal.
Link
 
2012-08-07 12:38:25 PM
Without reading it, I can tell you for a fact that the eyes aren't the only way for the body to know whether it's day or night. There are parts of the body particularly sensitive to light and it helps the brain recognize when it's time to sleep - back of the knees is one place if I recall correctly, weird, I know. If you can't see and aren't conscious of how much light is present, it will make it hard to get to sleep and stay that way.
 
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