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(ABC)   Pediatric surgeon gives up his own life in order to save two boys from drowning   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 41
    More: Hero, Lake Michigan, rip currents, swells  
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13099 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Aug 2012 at 2:17 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-08-07 02:53:51 AM  
6 votes:
OK I just have to play devil's advocate for a second. Wouldn't he likely have saved far more lives by continuing on in his profession as a pediatrician?
2012-08-07 02:29:42 AM  
4 votes:
OK kids, do not fark up your lives now.
2012-08-06 09:09:08 PM  
4 votes:
Proper use of the Hero tag indeed.

RIP good Doctor.
bow
2012-08-06 11:03:37 PM  
3 votes:
I would normally try to say something snarky, but no.

This man was awesome. We need more people in the world like him.
2012-08-07 07:46:48 AM  
2 votes:
We all gotta go somehow. Saving two kids' lives ain't the worst way.
2012-08-07 06:36:18 AM  
2 votes:

geezus: Well, if more than 2 people die because they don't get surgery from him, that wasn't a smart move in the grand scheme of things.


Could you watch two boys drown when you know you can do something?

Just let them sit there and drown while you are standing there and watch?

Would the kind of psycho who could do that ever be a good doctor?
2012-08-07 02:55:07 AM  
2 votes:
OK, I got it. His kids told him not to but he did, to save someone else's kids. Now his kids, which should have been priority #1 at all times, don't have a father.
I don't want to be the asshole that thinks he is was and idiot, but.....
2012-08-07 02:41:17 AM  
2 votes:
Rip tides are nasty business. I rescued a swimmer about 20 years ago in Lake Erie. It was a public beach without a lifeguard and some young kid got pulled into the rip tide. I was in the water about 20 feet away and swam to him, put him into a cross chest, kept us both afloat and let the time take us out while trying to calm him down. We ended up being about 50 yards out before I was able to start swimming parallel to the shore and then bring him in. This kid was only about 8 or 9 years old but he left some black and blue marks on my arms from his death grip, and those bruises lasted a couple of weeks! Amazing what adrenaline can do for you. It is kind of funny that in all the years I spent as a lifeguard I only ever had to make one rescue while on duty (and even then it was only holding a kid up while I stood in 5' of water!), but had to make a number of rescues in other places. To this day i still cannot fully relax around water. Part of me is always on duty.
2012-08-07 02:30:45 AM  
2 votes:
These kids had better grow up to be pretty f*cking important.
2012-08-06 11:17:29 PM  
2 votes:

bow: I would normally try to say something snarky, but no.

This man was awesome. We need more people in the world like him.


We do need more people like him in the world...so please (wonderful people of the world) stop dying.

My condolances to his seemingly wonderful family.
2012-08-07 03:00:13 PM  
1 votes:
I think the 'cold' calculation is your actual calculation.

Absolutely. And I agree with much of what you said, but I think that rather than redefining the word "hero" we should always be conscious of the difference between heroism and brave wisdom, which seems to be the distinction you are drawing. Heroes are reckless, almost by definition, which is evident in the common phrase "don't be a hero".

Thanks (everyone) for your wishes. I'm surprised by how much it has meant to me that the famously cynical Fark crowd has generally perceived and acknowledged the passing of a good man.
2012-08-07 02:14:26 PM  
1 votes:

Mose: Prosperous Cheater: Don Liu was a personal friend of mine. The only time he ever got mad was when he talked about some of the kids he had to save due to abuse and gangbanger shootouts. He fought like hell to save kids, all kids, while still making plenty of time for his own brood. He was kind, witty, and taught me the "superman" dance move.

All three of his children are tall, sweet-natured and a little quiet. We'll be there for them throughout their school years, but losing a father, especially one such as this, is far crueler than I can stand to think about.

Sorry for your loss. Sounds like he was a stand up guy.


not only this, but the kids he saved were said to be "friends of the family", so.. you know, probably not gangbanger kids or something. So sad, any way you look at it. If the saved kids are really family friends--- imagine them looking at the Liu children , and know Dr, Liu is dead because they were swimming in dangerous conditions..
2012-08-07 01:05:50 PM  
1 votes:
He wouldn't be a bad doctor if he didn't risk his life and leave his children fatherless and his wife a widow to save these two kids. Where were their parents and why weren't they being the hero?

The other parents were nearby and also jumped in, but Don was first. It was not in his nature to hesitate or make cold calculations when children were in immediate danger. It is also fair, I think, to believe he underestimated the power of the lake, not having grown up around here.

I am a mathematician, so allow me to answer those who question his decision-making on purely rational grounds, since so many posters have pointlessly done so on a posterior basis.

Let us consider, instead, that Don might have expected to save N lives in the remainder of his surgical career, that the two boys each had a probability p of drowning without his aid, a probability r of drowning with his aid, and his own probability of drowning was q. Then it makes sense for him to go, even in the face of danger, if the expected rewards outweigh the expected costs. That is, he should go if

q(N+1)+2r+r2 ≤ 2p+p2


Feel free to plug in your own values. I know what Don's values were.
2012-08-07 10:24:15 AM  
1 votes:

factoryconnection: Alonjar: I hate to be "that guy", but I dont see how he is a hero at all. He didnt save those kids, they swam in on their own. All he did was go and drown himself, while his children stood behind him begging him not to go.

Good job, retard.

According to you, internet expert. According to an eyewitness: "After he saved those boys and I couldn't see him, they finally found him and they pulled him from the water. I tried to do mouth-to-mouth, but I knew. And it was so painful," Suskind said between sobs.

Hmmm... whom to believe, whom to believe...


That witness is his wife. Not exactly an unbiased source of info. The article doesn't give enough detail but, even if he never made it to the kids, I think she would try to rationalize that he died saving them, if only for her own peace of mind.
2012-08-07 09:22:12 AM  
1 votes:

factoryconnection: According to you, internet expert. According to an eyewitness the dead guys wife, who needs to find meaning in his death: "After he saved those boys and I couldn't see him, they finally found him and they pulled him from the water. I tried to do mouth-to-mouth, but I knew. And it was so painful," Suskind said between sobs.

Hmmm... whom to believe, whom to believe...




Fixed that for you
2012-08-07 09:19:59 AM  
1 votes:
Don Liu was a personal friend of mine. The only time he ever got mad was when he talked about some of the kids he had to save due to abuse and gangbanger shootouts. He fought like hell to save kids, all kids, while still making plenty of time for his own brood. He was kind, witty, and taught me the "superman" dance move.

All three of his children are tall, sweet-natured and a little quiet. We'll be there for them throughout their school years, but losing a father, especially one such as this, is far crueler than I can stand to think about.
2012-08-07 08:17:12 AM  
1 votes:
Let Darwin have the two other kids, stay alive for your three.

The offspring of two doctors are more likely to contribute great things to society than the offspring of parents who let their children swim in rip tides.

www.secularstudents.org
2012-08-07 08:10:35 AM  
1 votes:
I hate to be "that guy", but I dont see how he is a hero at all. He didnt save those kids, they swam in on their own. All he did was go and drown himself, while his children stood behind him begging him not to go.

Good job, retard.
2012-08-07 07:06:33 AM  
1 votes:
My uncle drown in Lake Michigan because of the rip tides. This guy knew how dangerous it was and he still went in there. Complete definition of a hero.
2012-08-07 04:56:34 AM  
1 votes:

tankjr: There is no afterlife


Wrong.
2012-08-07 04:28:19 AM  
1 votes:
Eh, dumb move in the long run.

Think of all the kids that won't be saved by his surgical skills now.
2012-08-07 04:23:01 AM  
1 votes:

Beerguy: Proper use of the Hero tag indeed.

RIP good Doctor.


Oh, so true.
Well said.
RIP protector. May your wife and family find solace in your selflessness.
2012-08-07 04:22:25 AM  
1 votes:
I saw something like that once happen with riptides in the ocean near me... and I stood there and did nothing. The doctor was a far, far, far better man than most.
2012-08-07 04:14:56 AM  
1 votes:
He did surgery on one of my kids. I never met him, but I heard he was amazing with both calming down freaked out parents and keeping kids in a good state of mind.
Definitely a loss for the world.
/Thanks for all you did, doc.
2012-08-07 03:43:47 AM  
1 votes:
"What a man, what a man, what a man, what a mighty good man.". - Salt and Peppah

RIP Dr. Liu
2012-08-07 03:36:22 AM  
1 votes:
"No life being worth any more or less than another, two must be worth more than one."

/you've got all the good I can wish you, Doc.
//your family, too.
2012-08-07 03:17:30 AM  
1 votes:
Yeah, those two kids he saved better not grow up into a crazy killer who shoots random people or impregnates 12 year olds (or gets pregnant at that age).

The parents of the children must tell them that "A good man died just so you can live, don't waste the life he exchanged for yours!"
2012-08-07 03:08:34 AM  
1 votes:
He's definitely a hero.

People really should try to pay more attention to the conditions before heading off into the water, especially if you are not familiar with the area. Three tourists recently drowned near where I live after misjudging the current in the river.
2012-08-07 03:08:27 AM  
1 votes:

Mock26: Enigmamf: OK I just have to play devil's advocate for a second. Wouldn't he likely have saved far more lives by continuing on in his profession as a pediatrician?

Possibly, but he would have been less than human to have just stood by and watched those kids die without doing something.


Hah, I never seem to refresh the comments before I post... great minds think alike, and all.
2012-08-07 03:02:00 AM  
1 votes:

bow: I would normally try to say something snarky, but no.

This man was awesome. We need more people in the world like him.


What society needs is for these 2 kids to earn this. We lost a valuable resource saving them.
2012-08-07 03:01:10 AM  
1 votes:

Enigmamf: OK I just have to play devil's advocate for a second. Wouldn't he likely have saved far more lives by continuing on in his profession as a pediatrician?


Possibly, but he would have been less than human to have just stood by and watched those kids die without doing something.
2012-08-07 02:56:15 AM  
1 votes:

Enigmamf: OK I just have to play devil's advocate for a second. Wouldn't he likely have saved far more lives by continuing on in his profession as a pediatrician?


^And this.^
2012-08-07 02:51:14 AM  
1 votes:

Oakenshield: See. This is the issue with there being no afterlife. There'd better be a reward for this kind of shiat. That better not have been for.. nothing.


That's precisely why it's GOOD that there isn't a "hereafter". In my view, an act like this taken knowing that you may not be around to hear all the praise and gratitude is exactly what makes an act "heroic". The notion that people will be rewarded for their deeds in death cheapens our good works. The greatest heroes are the ones we don't even know exist. They gave themselves for an important purpose, knowing that no one would ever know what happened.

(It conveniently gives us an excuse to refuse to right the world's wrongs, too, because we comfort ourselves that bad people be punished when they die. That's a copout.)
2012-08-07 02:49:10 AM  
1 votes:

Oakenshield: See. This is the issue with there being no afterlife. There'd better be a reward for this kind of shiat. That better not have been for.. nothing.


There is no afterlife, but this wasn't for nothing. This character will live on in our minds as an example.
2012-08-07 02:40:27 AM  
1 votes:
Beerguy: Proper use of the Hero tag indeed.

The sad thing to note is that the people who are heroes are usually the ones that die.

Know your limits, and remember you can't help anyone else if you get into a situation where you're the one who has to be rescued or recovered. Reach, throw, or row, but don't go unless you're capable of doing so.
2012-08-07 02:38:14 AM  
1 votes:
See. This is the issue with there being no afterlife. There'd better be a reward for this kind of shiat. That better not have been for.. nothing.
2012-08-07 02:37:10 AM  
1 votes:
He probably knew there was a good chance he wasn't coming back but he went in anyway - who amongst us could've done the same.

a life well played good Dr.

www.blackfive.net
2012-08-07 02:26:37 AM  
1 votes:
The two boys made it back to the shore near Cherry Beach in Chikaming, but Liu, 50, did not survive the 6-foot swells and treacherous currents.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the smallish kids got back to shore on their own. It's the 50 year old doctor that wasn't able to handle things.

Doctors, right? Always think the first thing they need to do is rush into action. Motion to action is important for a lot of people, like truckers and pilots and other people where things can go to shiat if they freeze up, but if you aren't a beach lifeguard then you probably aren't a good enough swimmer to tackle a riptide.
2012-08-07 12:46:58 AM  
1 votes:
Are you with me Doctor Liu
Are you really just a shadow
Of the man that I once knew
2012-08-06 10:16:45 PM  
1 votes:

Beerguy: Proper use of the Hero tag indeed.

2012-08-06 09:14:34 PM  
1 votes:

Beerguy: Proper use of the Hero tag indeed.


Finally.

RIP Dr Liu
 
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