He did surgery on one of my kids. I never met him, but I heard he was amazing with both calming down freaked out parents and keeping kids in a good state of mind.
Definitely a loss for the world.
/Thanks for all you did, doc.

Some people worry if their community event contains the sort of people who would jump into waters like that if their kids were in trouble.

And then there's people like this, who already know the answer because they have a giant brass set and the willingness to use them, despite great personal risk.


Heroes like this don't merely meet the bar, they help define the scope of our better nature.

I saw something like that once happen with riptides in the ocean near me... and I stood there and did nothing. The doctor was a far, far, far better man than most.

Beerguy: Proper use of the Hero tag indeed.

RIP good Doctor.

Oh, so true.
Well said.
RIP protector. May your wife and family find solace in your selflessness.

bow: I would normally try to say something snarky, but no.

This man was awesome. We need more people in the world like him.

What, dead?

Eh, dumb move in the long run.

Think of all the kids that won't be saved by his surgical skills now.

:*(

tankjr: There is no afterlife

Wrong.

Gelatinous: tankjr: There is no afterlife

Wrong.

This

Pretty sad.

But Asians and large bodies of water. Always ends in tears, eh wot?

If I had a dollar for every "Asian drowns in river trying to save another Asian fisherman" story from my home town, I'd have $3.

R.I.P. Dr. Donald Liu.

Well, if more than 2 people die because they don't get surgery from him, that wasn't a smart move in the grand scheme of things.

Thank you Dr. If there is a heaven up there somewhere, I'm sure that you're there. Nice job indeed Sir, bless you.

/bows

geezus: Well, if more than 2 people die because they don't get surgery from him, that wasn't a smart move in the grand scheme of things.

Wtf lol

eldritch2k4: [www.teenageneighbor.com image 354x270]
R.I.P. Master Lou

Oh, you want some. Of the GLOWING.

GreenSun: Yeah, those two kids he saved better not grow up into a crazy killer who shoots random people or impregnates 12 year olds (or gets pregnant at that age).

The parents of the children must tell them that "A good man died just so you can live, don't waste the life he exchanged for yours!"

This.

doglover: Could you watch two boys drown when you know you can do something?

What if I'm a snuff fetishist, and this just happens to be my thing. Who are you to deny me my liberties guarenteed under the constitution to enjoy that sight? What are you, an Obama loving communist socialist?

doglover: Just let them sit there and drown while you are standing there and watch?

In all seriousness, you're asking us to inject ourselves into that situation. I know I would more than likely die trying to reach them in a six foot rip current, or end up needing to be rescued myself, and tie up valuable time for rescuers to get to the kids. Logically, I know I wouldn't go, but I'd need to find a third option, and find some way to get out there and reach them. A rope around my waist, or some way to be secured to the shore with others, or a boat.

The sad thing is that this is what ended up happening. The kids made it back to shore on their own, while he ended up dying.

doglover: Would the kind of psycho who could do that ever be a good doctor?

You ever seen a cardiothoracic surgeon, or neurosurgeon? I think their job descriptions require them to be sociopathic bastards.

We all gotta go somehow. Saving two kids' lives ain't the worst way.

shallow AND pediatricPEDANTIC

RIP true hero

A really sad story. We can't afford to lose people like him.

I hate to be "that guy", but I dont see how he is a hero at all. He didnt save those kids, they swam in on their own. All he did was go and drown himself, while his children stood behind him begging him not to go.

Good job, retard.

bow: I would normally try to say something snarky, but no.

This man was awesome. We need more people in the world like him.

And now we have one less. Those idiot kids he rescued better grow up to save lives themselves, because this guy was a real asset!

Don Liu was a personal friend of mine. The only time he ever got mad was when he talked about some of the kids he had to save due to abuse and gangbanger shootouts. He fought like hell to save kids, all kids, while still making plenty of time for his own brood. He was kind, witty, and taught me the "superman" dance move.

All three of his children are tall, sweet-natured and a little quiet. We'll be there for them throughout their school years, but losing a father, especially one such as this, is far crueler than I can stand to think about.

factoryconnection: According to you, internet expert. According to an eyewitness the dead guys wife, who needs to find meaning in his death: "After he saved those boys and I couldn't see him, they finally found him and they pulled him from the water. I tried to do mouth-to-mouth, but I knew. And it was so painful," Suskind said between sobs.

Hmmm... whom to believe, whom to believe...



Fixed that for you

Prosperous Cheater: Don Liu was a personal friend of mine. The only time he ever got mad was when he talked about some of the kids he had to save due to abuse and gangbanger shootouts. He fought like hell to save kids, all kids, while still making plenty of time for his own brood. He was kind, witty, and taught me the "superman" dance move.

All three of his children are tall, sweet-natured and a little quiet. We'll be there for them throughout their school years, but losing a father, especially one such as this, is far crueler than I can stand to think about.

Sorry for your loss. Sounds like he was a stand up guy.

ThatDarkFellow: Eh, dumb move in the long run.

Think of all the kids that won't be saved by his surgical skills now.

Yeah :(

These two better both become doctors or vets or something.

Thanks Doc, you get the TV remote up here for that little act of selflessness.

factoryconnection: Alonjar: I hate to be "that guy", but I dont see how he is a hero at all. He didnt save those kids, they swam in on their own. All he did was go and drown himself, while his children stood behind him begging him not to go.

Good job, retard.

According to you, internet expert. According to an eyewitness: "After he saved those boys and I couldn't see him, they finally found him and they pulled him from the water. I tried to do mouth-to-mouth, but I knew. And it was so painful," Suskind said between sobs.

Hmmm... whom to believe, whom to believe...

That witness is his wife. Not exactly an unbiased source of info. The article doesn't give enough detail but, even if he never made it to the kids, I think she would try to rationalize that he died saving them, if only for her own peace of mind.

Alonjar: factoryconnection: According to you, internet expert. According to an eyewitness the dead guys wife, who needs to find meaning in his death: "After he saved those boys and I couldn't see him, they finally found him and they pulled him from the water. I tried to do mouth-to-mouth, but I knew. And it was so painful," Suskind said between sobs.

Hmmm... whom to believe, whom to believe...



Fixed that for you

Oops. I see you already took care of that one.

Alonjar: factoryconnection: According to you, internet expert. According to the dead guys wife, who needs to find meaning in his death: "After he saved those boys and I couldn't see him, they finally found him and they pulled him from the water. I tried to do mouth-to-mouth, but I knew. And it was so painful," Suskind said between sobs.

Hmmm... whom to believe, whom to believe...



Fixed that for you
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Dude that's spooky. I was gonna click the quote button and reply to your first p*ost, which I agree with. But I managed to catch your follow-up comment as I was scrolling down and it's like you are reading my mind.

That's exactly how I reckon the story panned out. That's exactly how I read the wife's comment.

I'm fresh from the "Lesbian Faked Her Own Hate Crime" thread. I'm not quite as sure this time, but.

As an aside:
** I know I am a shiateful swimmer.
** I am the wrong side of 50 and not exactly fit.
** Hell dangerous conditions.
** Full time job is about saving lives. Might wanna show up for work on Monday.
** My children begging me not to jump in.


Yes, I would like to think I'd have the poise to consider "let two boys drown" as an option. Or have the poise to notice that they might just make it in under their own steam and maybe calmly but sternly shouting encouragement is the best corse of action.

But combined with the kids being family friends and, hell, being KIDS, he decided to go for it. My guess is he drastically under rated how dangerous it was more than anything.

Like the 911 firefighters piling into the stairwells for their big rescue-a-thon.

filter: wildcardjack: The two boys made it back to the shore near Cherry Beach in Chikaming, but Liu, 50, did not survive the 6-foot swells and treacherous currents.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the smallish kids got back to shore on their own. It's the 50 year old doctor that wasn't able to handle things.

Doctors, right? Always think the first thing they need to do is rush into action. Motion to action is important for a lot of people, like truckers and pilots and other people where things can go to shiat if they freeze up, but if you aren't a beach lifeguard then you probably aren't a good enough swimmer to tackle a riptide.

That is how I read it. Sounds like doc overestimated his abilities.


His kids will be screwed up for life, knowing he chose other kids over them.

right? I get that this is heroic and all, but I wonder why we assume that the life of two children with future undetermined, the level of giving back to the community they will do later in life undetermined, is more valuable than that of a pediatric surgeon who helps kids on a regular basis and has his own kids to raise and mentor. Now he's gone, somebody who we can determine was definitely a helpful and needed person in that they regularly did help ailing children. We are left with two kids saved who could grow up to be paper pushers, middle managers, regular people like most of us, and so what's the real total benefit to this man drowning to save those two kids? The dude was only 50. That's young as hell to be dead.

doglover: geezus: Well, if more than 2 people die because they don't get surgery from him, that wasn't a smart move in the grand scheme of things.

Could you watch two boys drown when you know you can do something?

Just let them sit there and drown while you are standing there and watch?

Would the kind of psycho who could do that ever be a good doctor?

He wouldn't be a bad doctor if he didn't risk his life and leav ehis children fatherless and his wife a widow to save these two random kids. Where were their parents and why weren't thy being the hero?

stink factor: doglover: geezus: Well, if more than 2 people die because they don't get surgery from him, that wasn't a smart move in the grand scheme of things.

Could you watch two boys drown when you know you can do something?

Just let them sit there and drown while you are standing there and watch?

Would the kind of psycho who could do that ever be a good doctor?

He wouldn't be a bad doctor if he didn't risk his life and leav ehis children fatherless and his wife a widow to save these two random kids. Where were their parents and why weren't thy being the hero?
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They weren't random.

Big Ramifications: stink factor: doglover: geezus: Well, if more than 2 people die because they don't get surgery from him, that wasn't a smart move in the grand scheme of things.

Could you watch two boys drown when you know you can do something?

Just let them sit there and drown while you are standing there and watch?

Would the kind of psycho who could do that ever be a good doctor?

He wouldn't be a bad doctor if he didn't risk his life and leave his children fatherless and his wife a widow to save these two random kids. Where were their parents and why weren't they being the hero?
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They weren't random.

Ok, I fixed it. And still.

Hope I get to go out like that. Well done, sir. If there's an afterlife, I bet you get a good spot.

Alonjar: I hate to be "that guy", but I dont see how he is a hero at all. He didnt save those kids, they swam in on their own. All he did was go and drown himself, while his children stood behind him begging him not to go.

Good job, retard.

But that he could do something and didn't... How could he face his children or even himself in the mirror if he just stood and watched while they drown.

He did the right thing. I hope i would react as he did.

stink factor: They weren't random.

Ok, I fixed it. And still.
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Yeah I felt a bit bad correcting you. You were all Bluto up there. "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

And the Boon part of me is all "forget it, he's rolling."

He wouldn't be a bad doctor if he didn't risk his life and leave his children fatherless and his wife a widow to save these two kids. Where were their parents and why weren't they being the hero?

The other parents were nearby and also jumped in, but Don was first. It was not in his nature to hesitate or make cold calculations when children were in immediate danger. It is also fair, I think, to believe he underestimated the power of the lake, not having grown up around here.

I am a mathematician, so allow me to answer those who question his decision-making on purely rational grounds, since so many posters have pointlessly done so on a posterior basis.

Let us consider, instead, that Don might have expected to save N lives in the remainder of his surgical career, that the two boys each had a probability p of drowning without his aid, a probability r of drowning with his aid, and his own probability of drowning was q. Then it makes sense for him to go, even in the face of danger, if the expected rewards outweigh the expected costs. That is, he should go if

q(N+1)+2r+r² ≤ 2p+p²


Feel free to plug in your own values. I know what Don's values were.

Mose: Prosperous Cheater: Don Liu was a personal friend of mine. The only time he ever got mad was when he talked about some of the kids he had to save due to abuse and gangbanger shootouts. He fought like hell to save kids, all kids, while still making plenty of time for his own brood. He was kind, witty, and taught me the "superman" dance move.

All three of his children are tall, sweet-natured and a little quiet. We'll be there for them throughout their school years, but losing a father, especially one such as this, is far crueler than I can stand to think about.

Sorry for your loss. Sounds like he was a stand up guy.

not only this, but the kids he saved were said to be "friends of the family", so.. you know, probably not gangbanger kids or something. So sad, any way you look at it. If the saved kids are really family friends--- imagine them looking at the Liu children , and know Dr, Liu is dead because they were swimming in dangerous conditions..