All the money has got to be going somewhere, most likely to off shores bank accounts.

There's no quick fix for the average worker other than changing careers, which is never easy to do.

So as more people are forced out of the middle class and cost of living increases, people will vent.

In 5 years, the police will be in full swing, so no more protests no more complaining.

Be happy with what you have now, because if your not willing to step on the backs of your fellow man for a dollar, then you deserve your life of "just getting by".

Except if you are in IT. You IT people are fine.

GreenAdder: ourbigdumbmouth: if your not willing

My what?

I'm not sure what I typed. My phone doesn't care for my sausage fingers or opinions

ourbigdumbmouth:
All the money has got to be going somewhere, most likely to off shores bank accounts.

No, not really.

You see, when the economy is flat, "the money" isn't being made in the first place. When you combine a stagnant economy with inflation, "the money" never existed.

cirby: when the economy is flat, "the money" isn't being made in the first place

Easy way to fix a flat economy, give people more money to spend. Also wages have been stagnant even when the economy has been growing.

I once worked for a lady that gave crazy low raises like this. Once she "gave" me a whole nickel. She didn't seem to think I was bright enough to figure out that was because minimum wage went up that week, and she HAD to give me the nickel because after a year of working for her, my hourly wage wasn't quite legal. Needless to say, I did not make it through the second year as her employee.

We need real jobs, not jobs™*



*quality of employment may vary, vote republican

Welcome to retail. My boss could just never understand why I wasn't happy getting a raise of 10-25 cents after I biatched about my wage. "I give him a raise and all I get is insolence." My manager told my boss. She didn't fire me though, I was the only freaking person running her small store. A raise is a few dollars. 25 cents is asking your employee to find new employment.

All the Job Creators need are more tax cuts, though!

Then I'm SURE we'll see wages rise! Right? Guys? Guys? Why are you laughing?

WhyteRaven74:
Easy way to fix a flat economy, give people more money to spend.

Give people the nonexistent money?

The only way to expand an economy is to create first - money comes AFTER the production.

And no - taking money from rich people to give to poor people does NOT "make more money." All it does is speed up the cash flow a little now - at the expense of a LOT of slowdown in the long run.

I know it's a matter of faith among the dimmer folks - that money can be created by government fiat - but it just doesn't work that way. No, running the Treasury printing presses doesn't make more total value - it just debases the value of each individual dollar.

By the way... get ready for a huge pile of inflation right after the election, no matter who wins.

serial_crusher: TFA: Weekly income gain worse in almost 2 years

The editing on this article is even worst than the income gain.

And that's why the editor is only getting a 3 cent raise.

cirby: WhyteRaven74:
Easy way to fix a flat economy, give people more money to spend.

Give people the nonexistent money?

The only way to expand an economy is to create first - money comes AFTER the production.

And no - taking money from rich people to give to poor people does NOT "make more money." All it does is speed up the cash flow a little now - at the expense of a LOT of slowdown in the long run.

I know it's a matter of faith among the dimmer folks - that money can be created by government fiat - but it just doesn't work that way. No, running the Treasury printing presses doesn't make more total value - it just debases the value of each individual dollar.

By the way... get ready for a huge pile of inflation right after the election, no matter who wins.


Don't you people ever get tired of being wrong?

And members of Congress will still see their double-digit pay raises, because they can.

WhyteRaven74: cirby: when the economy is flat, "the money" isn't being made in the first place

Easy way to fix a flat economy, give people more money to spend. Also wages have been stagnant even when the economy has been growing.

Yeah! Just give people more money to spend! Genius! Why haven't bush/Paulson/Geithner/Obama thought of that simple plan?

How about we let people exchange all their $1 bills for fives? We'd have a booming economy in no time! If things go wrong, just exchange the fives for tens, then tens to twenties. By that point I think everything should be fixed.

sendtodave: cirby: WhyteRaven74:
Easy way to fix a flat economy, give people more money to spend.

Give people the nonexistent money?

The only way to expand an economy is to create first - money comes AFTER the production.

And no - taking money from rich people to give to poor people does NOT "make more money." All it does is speed up the cash flow a little now - at the expense of a LOT of slowdown in the long run.

I know it's a matter of faith among the dimmer folks - that money can be created by government fiat - but it just doesn't work that way. No, running the Treasury printing presses doesn't make more total value - it just debases the value of each individual dollar.

By the way... get ready for a huge pile of inflation right after the election, no matter who wins.


Don't you people ever get tired of being wrong?

Well, if he said running trillion dollar deficits would still leave us with a crap economy, but lots of debt, he'd have been right.

Kuroshin: cirby: ourbigdumbmouth:
All the money has got to be going somewhere, most likely to off shores bank accounts.

No, not really.

You see, when the economy is flat, "the money" isn't being made in the first place. When you combine a stagnant economy with inflation, "the money" never existed.

The economy is flat because "the money" has already been extracted. Everybody is fighting over an ever-shrinking pie, as billions of dollars are removed from the ecosystem and held offshore.

Spending money is good. Investing money is good. Pulling money out of the system and putting it into offshore accounts is bad. Hoarding money is bad. More money can always be printed, but that's just as bad.

"off shores bank accounts". LOL. Financial boogeyman of the stupid.

Welcome to retail. My boss could just never understand why I wasn't happy getting a raise of 10-25 cents after I biatched about my wage. "I give him a raise and all I get is insolence." My manager told my boss. She didn't fire me though, I was the only freaking person running her small store. A raise is a few dollars. 25 cents is asking your employee to find new employment.

This. I worked for the countries largest auto parts retailer. A standard raise was 5-20 cents a year. Sometimes no raise was given at all. My last raise before I resigned was 32 cents which was unheard of by there standards. With the majority of employees making minimium or just above minimum wage and the expectation of full time employees to work only 40 hours a week but be available for over a 100 hours is absurd. This is true of almost any retail sales position whether it's in auto parts or any other retailer. Hence why I got out of that ridiculous racket

WhyteRaven74: cirby: when the economy is flat, "the money" isn't being made in the first place

Easy way to fix a flat economy, give people more money to spend. Also wages have been stagnant even when the economy has been growing.

Exactly. The FED needs to stop worrying about keeping inflation historically low and about boosting employment. Letting the rich and the large corporation protect their money by keeping it under their proverbial beds instead of spending and investing it is killing jobs.

As for wages, nothing new. Walmart was giving 10 cent yearly raises on minimum wages in good times, far below inflation. There's been horrible income redistribution in wage markets for a good 30 years now. Increase productivity, cut costs (wages and benefits), and skim some of the savings off the top to reward yourself. HBS in a nutshell.

cirby:

I know it's a matter of faith among the dimmer folks - that money can be created by government fiat - but it just doesn't work that way. No, running the Treasury printing presses doesn't make more total value - it just debases the value of each individual dollar.

By the way... get ready for a huge pile of inflation right after the election, no matter who wins.

You people were harping on that 10 years ago, and you were harping on it 4 years ago. It hasn't happened, and the FED have actively been preventing it, via active monetary policy (or as you fools call it voodoo). Being dim yourself, you're also confusing money with wealth. Money CAN be created out of thin air, as it's only a means of exchange. The US Government, and private markets, sets that exchange rate. Wealth can't, but you need positive economic activity to create that wealth.

Greasing the wheel temporarily to kickstart demand is prudent fiscal policy. Likewise you could also prop up bubbles, and misuse fiscal policy to the detriment of the economy.

It's a tool, nothing more. It can be used for both good and bad. Right now there's a good case to use it in a way that will get money and pent up demand flowing, then easing back. And if you need a good example, go compare Norway with Britain.

cirby: Give people the nonexistent money?

There are lots of companies that have reported record profits over the last couple years. They have the money to spend.

Debeo Summa Credo: Yeah! Just give people more money to spend! Genius! Why haven't bush/Paulson/Geithner/Obama thought of that simple plan?

So, how do you grow a consumer based economy if people don't have more money to spend?

Arctic Phoenix: All the Job Creators need are more tax cuts, though!

Then I'm SURE we'll see wages rise! Right? Guys? Guys? Why are you laughing?

The Chinese guy will go from $0.10 to $0.11. Everyone else will get laid off.

majestic: I have a plethora of jobs available paying $10.50/hr. No, they aren't sexy, easy jobs. You have to actually work in a warehouse environment where it might be hot or cold. You have to run a machine and might get hurt (minor cut or scratch) if you don't pay attention to your surroundings. Stick it out 90 days and you'll be making $14/hr with profit sharing and benefits.

/no, I'd prefer not do it myself
//college and 20 years experience tends to do that to you
///"fark you slave driver" begins now on me

Big money big money big money.

Jaws_Victim: Welcome to retail. My boss could just never understand why I wasn't happy getting a raise of 10-25 cents after I biatched about my wage. "I give him a raise and all I get is insolence." My manager told my boss. She didn't fire me though, I was the only freaking person running her small store. A raise is a few dollars. 25 cents is asking your employee to find new employment.



A C-Note?? I consider that an insult.

WhyteRaven74: cirby: Give people the nonexistent money?

There are lots of companies that have reported record profits over the last couple years. They have the money to spend.

Debeo Summa Credo: Yeah! Just give people more money to spend! Genius! Why haven't bush/Paulson/Geithner/Obama thought of that simple plan?

So, how do you grow a consumer based economy if people don't have more money to spend?

You make more 'wealth'. Wealth is created by work.

majestic: /no, I'd prefer not do it myself

And thus anyone who completely ignores your advice is more than justified in doing so.

How about this. "Your employee review is excellent this time. You've met or exceeded all KPI for the last year. You will be receiving a raise in June." Four days later handed envelope letting me know that June 1st will be my last day of employment.

Count_0: How about this. "Your employee review is excellent this time. You've met or exceeded all KPI for the last year. You will be receiving a raise in June." Four days later handed envelope letting me know that June 1st will be my last day of employment.


How you avoided becoming this man I do not know.
Not that I would condone such actions, but I would understand.
/I would understand
//employers better take notes

Bondith: WhyteRaven74
So, how do you grow a consumer based economy if people don't have more money to spend?

Tax cuts! Trickle down! Small government! Job creators!

Bullshiat like this is why I'm in science. It's profoundly unfair how we get accused of lies and manipulation by idiots when economics finance gets away scot-free.

FTFY. Adam Smith would have a thing or two to say about how we practice capitalism in this day and age. He, after all, equated the wealth and health of a country by the wage of a normal worker. Like everything else, his ideas have been perverted to support a bastardized version of capitalism to even Reagan wouldn't recognize.

A place I worked for was bought out in a somewhat ugly way. Before the move, my new boss called me and cheerfully asked if I was happy with my raise. I thought she was mocking me, but I recovered and said "I got a (literally) one-cent raise and my commute has gone from 2 miles to 50 miles. She had some other information and was taken aback. She did get me another quarter, but in the long run, I burned bridges so badly that I left the state. Never work for Libertarians. They are shiatty, shiatty human beings.

Dear Jerk: Never work for Libertarians. They are shiatty, shiatty human beings.

And how.

TyrantII: Bondith: WhyteRaven74
So, how do you grow a consumer based economy if people don't have more money to spend?

Tax cuts! Trickle down! Small government! Job creators!

Bullshiat like this is why I'm in science. It's profoundly unfair how we get accused of lies and manipulation by idiots when economics finance gets away scot-free.

FTFY. Adam Smith would have a thing or two to say about how we practice capitalism in this day and age. He, after all, equated the wealth and health of a country by the wage of a normal worker. Like everything else, his ideas have been perverted to support a bastardized version of capitalism to even Reagan wouldn't recognize.

This. Too much focus on the mechanisms of finance has signaled the decline of all the western trade empires.

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Debeo Summa Credo: sendtodave: cirby: WhyteRaven74:
Easy way to fix a flat economy, give people more money to spend.

Give people the nonexistent money?

The only way to expand an economy is to create first - money comes AFTER the production.

And no - taking money from rich people to give to poor people does NOT "make more money." All it does is speed up the cash flow a little now - at the expense of a LOT of slowdown in the long run.

I know it's a matter of faith among the dimmer folks - that money can be created by government fiat - but it just doesn't work that way. No, running the Treasury printing presses doesn't make more total value - it just debases the value of each individual dollar.

By the way... get ready for a huge pile of inflation right after the election, no matter who wins.


Don't you people ever get tired of being wrong?

Well, if he said running trillion dollar deficits would still leave us with a crap economy, but lots of debt, he'd have been right.

"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due."

An economically illiterate asshole said that. Are the democrats absolving themselves from fiscal responsibility based on that quote.

"hey, hey! Door's open boys! Cheney said 'deficits don't matter', let's see if we can crank up a few more zeroes on this deficit!!"

rewind2846: Count_0: How about this. "Your employee review is excellent this time. You've met or exceeded all KPI for the last year. You will be receiving a raise in June." Four days later handed envelope letting me know that June 1st will be my last day of employment.

[robsmovievault.files.wordpress.com image 430x325]
How you avoided becoming this man I do not know.
Not that I would condone such actions, but I would understand.
/I would understand
//employers better take notes

He was a laid-off defense worker, and due to the impending DoD sequestration the real layoff notices are already being prepared at defense companies across the country. So if we get a sudden wave of psycho-killers, maybe Obama and the Congress should have been the ones taking notes.

As someone very actively looking for a new job and facing an awful performance review from a boss who just doesn't farking get it, I'm getting a kick out of this thread.

CujoQuarrel: WhyteRaven74: cirby: Give people the nonexistent money?

There are lots of companies that have reported record profits over the last couple years. They have the money to spend.

Debeo Summa Credo: Yeah! Just give people more money to spend! Genius! Why haven't bush/Paulson/Geithner/Obama thought of that simple plan?

So, how do you grow a consumer based economy if people don't have more money to spend?

You make more 'wealth'. Wealth is created by work.

no, wealth is created by holding onto valuable assets and materials. Of course its hard to hold onto anything when wages haven't increased in 3 decades with skyrocketing living expenses and a mega-rich class of folks (to the tune of $45 trillion as compared to about 1/9th that spread amongst the peasants) hellbent on keeping it that way by any means necessary.

jjorsett: rewind2846: Count_0: How about this. "Your employee review is excellent this time. You've met or exceeded all KPI for the last year. You will be receiving a raise in June." Four days later handed envelope letting me know that June 1st will be my last day of employment.

[robsmovievault.files.wordpress.com image 430x325]
How you avoided becoming this man I do not know.
Not that I would condone such actions, but I would understand.
/I would understand
//employers better take notes

He was a laid-off defense worker, and due to the impending DoD sequestration the real layoff notices are already being prepared at defense companies across the country. So if we get a sudden wave of psycho-killers, maybe Obama and the Congress should have been the ones taking notes.

[i46.tinypic.com image 450x291]

They will take out Sikh temples or vent on a theater. Want to go out with a bang and make a difference? Knock off a CEO or 2 in your blaze of glory.

CujoQuarrel: You make more 'wealth'. Wealth is created by work.

There's no shortage of wealth being created, also it's a lot easier to create when people have money to spend.

Debeo Summa Credo: "hey, hey! Door's open boys! Cheney said 'deficits don't matter', let's see if we can crank up a few more zeroes on this deficit!!"

Care to answer my question?

Count_0: How about this. "Your employee review is excellent this time. You've met or exceeded all KPI for the last year. You will be receiving a raise in June." Four days later handed envelope letting me know that June 1st will be my last day of employment.

My wife worked for a grain elevator for 6 years doing bookkeeping, writing contracts, and 100 other jobs. Last year around harvest time (which, as you might imagine, is a very busy time for them), they started cutting positions, leaving her to do the work of 2-3 people. She was leaving the house at 6 am and getting home at 9 or 10 every night. She worked 30 days in October (they were kind enough to let her have one Sunday off). For her efforts they were paying her just over $11.00/hr. She went in and demanded a raise, and they bumped her to $12, with a promise to get her to $13.50 at her annual review in March (they would have been completely and totally farked if she had walked out the door at that point). 2 weeks before her review and after things had quieted down, she was fired. To add insult to injury, they said they fired her for "inefficient use of time", so she didn't qualify for unemployment. She had 5 years of excellent reviews and not a single written or verbal warning. We appealed that, spent $400 on a lawyer, and got denied again. After 5 months of being unemployed with no benefits, she started her new job today. She's now making $10.50 and will be working a graveyard shift dealing with juvenile delinquents. That's what you get for begging for a few more crumbs from a multi-billion dollar corporation.