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(Daily Kos)   Anyone remember the DHS report on right-wing extremism? Just asking. No real reason   (dailykos.com) divider line 243
    More: Followup, right-wing extremism, DHS, diplomatic note, Fast Forward, extremisms, Gary Ackerman, Health Care, International, Radical Islam  
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7233 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Aug 2012 at 5:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-07 01:47:45 AM  

theorellior: It's really weird how everyone has piled on to GAT_00 for some reason in the last couple of weeks. While I don't always share his views I've never come across him saying anything that would strike me as any more authoritarian or weird than any of the regulars to the Politics Tab who aren't in the League of FAIL™. Maybe it's his stance on gun control? Sometimes I think gun people just need to understand that others don't share their passion for weapons.


I really don't follow many people that closely to see patterns like this.

But, oh, off the top of my head, I'm gonna guess Penn State has something to do with it.

I could be mixing up who is what now, but I'm fairly certain that's the only reason his name sticks out like a sore thumb to me now.
 
2012-08-07 01:51:59 AM  
Why are conservatives so violent?

www.apfn.org

upload.wikimedia.org

i.huffpost.com

sfist.com

msnbcmedia2.msn.com

Partial list of recent right-wing killers:

* Jim D. Adkisson, the "I hate liberals" shooter, who killed 2 and injured several when he shot up a liberal Unitarian church.
* Timothy McVeigh, registered Republican and anti-government nut case killed 168 Americans when he blew up a federal building.
* Joseph Paul Franklin, right-wing serial murderer who targeted minorities including Democrats Larry Flynt in 1978 and Vernon Jordan.
* Anders Breivik, Norwegian right-wing anti-muslim nut case who blew up a building and killed 69 sons and daugthers of liberal politicians.
* James Von Brunn, the holocaust museum shooter and white supremecist believed the media and gov't was controlled by jews
* Byron Williams, was on his way to killing liberals at the Tides Foundation and the ACLU before being stopped by cops.
* Timothy Johnson, walked into a Democrat Party headquarters and murdered the State Chair of the Democratic Party of Arkansas, Bill Gwatney, a man he had never met!
* Ted Kaczynski, aka the Unabomber killed several through cowardly mail bombs. His manifesto is riddled with hatred of liberals.
* Richard Poplawski, believed that jews controlled the media and that Obama was going to take his guns and shot dead three cops sent to evict him from mommy's home
* Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, father and son team and anti-government nut case "Patriots" bombed a bank and killed two police officers.
* Keith Luke, thought that the white race was dying off, raped a women, killed her sister, and shot dead a homeless man. He planned to kill as many blacks, hispanics, and jews as he could.
* Jerry and Joseph Kane, father and son team and Aryan church members killed two cops and injured two others in a traffic stop.
* Joseph Ray Stack, angry anti-tax protester flies a plane into an IRS building.
* John Patrick Bedell, anti-governemnt liberterian conspiracy theorist attemped to kill dozens at the Pentagon but was shot dead after injuring two.
* Shawna Forde, leader of the Minuteman American Defense group shot dead Raul Flores and his 9 year old daugther. The wife surved by playind dead.
* Bruce Ivins, suspected of mailing anthraz spores to two Democratic US Senators and several "liberal media" outlets, killing 5 and infecting 17 others.
* Eric Rudolph, anti-abortion murderer
* Michael Griffin, anti-abortion murderer
* Paul Hill, anti-abortion murderer and christian preacher
* John Salvi, anti-abortion murderer
* James Kopp, anti-abortion murderer
* Scott Roeder, anti-abortion murderer


The right wing needs to tone down the violence.
 
2012-08-07 02:15:47 AM  

Hobo Jr.: You guys(some of you) got it lucky. These crazy right wingers are easy to spot and usually have only small support groups within a community.

I, however, live in the heart of Dixie and I could throw a rock into a crowd and hit ten people who think this Wisconsin nutbag is a martyr.


Really?? Name one. Send him an email explaining why you hate him and the beliefs you attribute to him.
 
2012-08-07 02:24:06 AM  

MyRandomName: Jared loughner was not right wing you ignorant pos



Oh right, now according to Fark Independents, Libertarians who are anti-government like Jared are not "right wing"
 
2012-08-07 03:05:17 AM  

mrshowrules: Nobodyn0se: mrshowrules:

You missed my point. I was reflecting the lameness of the original point.

Well, if this was a normal website, I would now realize that I was wrong and apologize. Since this is Fark I'm going to insult your mother.

/Your mother voted for Bachmann!
//And she LIKED IT!

I would have preferred my mother is a whore comment over that vile post.


Actually i'm kind of drunk right now and I feel really bad :(

I'm sorry man. Forgive me?
 
2012-08-07 03:13:07 AM  
The right had a fit over it. Hey...right...fark you.
 
2012-08-07 03:14:00 AM  

Chimperror2: Hobo Jr.: You guys(some of you) got it lucky. These crazy right wingers are easy to spot and usually have only small support groups within a community.

I, however, live in the heart of Dixie and I could throw a rock into a crowd and hit ten people who think this Wisconsin nutbag is a martyr.

Really?? Name one. Send him an email explaining why you hate him and the beliefs you attribute to him.


Hahahaha! Look up above that post.
 
2012-08-07 03:14:36 AM  

cman: Grand standing of "I told you so" does not befit you, Kos, like it does not befit anyone else who does it


Your statement implies that these guys are your "side," part of your "team." Because otherwise you wouldn't be giving grief over grand standing, instead you'd be saying "wow, we were really wrong and these animals don't represent us in any way."

But you're not saying that, are you? You never cease to amaze me at just how low and disgusting you are.
 
2012-08-07 03:16:00 AM  

Vodka Zombie: Bush had a lot of years to educate these assholes, but, instead, he chose to exploit and capitalize on their hatred by stoking their ignorance and fear.


Now I hate Dubya with the fire of a thousand suns, but you force me into an awkward position. You are actually forcing me to defend that clown.

Quite frankly - you are full of shiat. Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in. He did an amazing job keeping them on a leash, and seeing them now (off the leash) only underscores this point. He said many times that "we are at war with terrorists, not Islam," "Islam is a peaceful religion" etc. On this front, he did all one man could ever do.

Having to defend him... I feel so very dirty. I swell with anger and self-loathing. I hope you are happy you asshole.
 
2012-08-07 03:18:06 AM  

bk3k: Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in.


Oh, bullshiat. He had one cute little speech about Muslims. That is all.
 
2012-08-07 03:30:35 AM  

Sabyen91: bk3k: Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in.

Oh, bullshiat. He had one cute little speech about Muslims. That is all.


Its pretty well known the right wing message/propaganda talking points gets assembled/controlled/distributed behind the scenes. They all have the exact same thing to say at exactly the same time - pretty well every time. I mainly mean the talking heads, but their politicians tend to follow suit closely.

Now if you need evidence of the Bush administration doing this - look at what was said during their term versus what is openly said now. It is very clearly gotten much worse. In fact, the change was just about instant. Consider his connections to the Saudi family(for example), and you can see his motivations in doing this.

These wingers have ALWAYS been this hateful/xenophobic, but during his term where not (publicly) this brazen in showing their hatred. I don't mean your neighbor/coworker/etc - I mean the talking heads. The people who clearly control the message - and through the message - the thought processes of so many Americans.

So yes, he/his administration had these nutjobs on a leash. The comparison then-to-now clearly shows this.
 
2012-08-07 03:31:38 AM  

mrshowrules: Nobodyn0se: mrshowrules: cabbyman: Has anyone mentioned that the amount of violence displayed in this incident is literally a weekly occurrence in Chicago?

More Americans died of accidental shootings since 9/11 than on 9/11. Compare the news coverage on that gem.

An incident involving thousands of people dying at the same time on national television got more press coverage than a series of accidents in which random people died one at a time?!?!?!

THE HORROR!111111

You missed my point. I was reflecting the lameness of the original point.


I get it. Let me try:

Every three years, more Americans are strangled to death by their own bedsheets then were killed by terrorists on 9/11. Where's the outrage?

Nope, doesn't work. Crib death isn't funny, and we should do more to prevent it, though we perhaps shouldn't go as far as banning bedding. But by the same token, there are far more accidental firearms deaths each year than there should be, including kids shooting other kids while playing with their parents' guns, fathers shooting sons while hunting together, etc. Better education and stricter regulation could prevent many of these deaths. So your attempt at satire doesn't quite work either.
 
2012-08-07 03:35:14 AM  

bk3k: Sabyen91: bk3k: Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in.

Oh, bullshiat. He had one cute little speech about Muslims. That is all.

Its pretty well known the right wing message/propaganda talking points gets assembled/controlled/distributed behind the scenes. They all have the exact same thing to say at exactly the same time - pretty well every time. I mainly mean the talking heads, but their politicians tend to follow suit closely.

Now if you need evidence of the Bush administration doing this - look at what was said during their term versus what is openly said now. It is very clearly gotten much worse. In fact, the change was just about instant. Consider his connections to the Saudi family(for example), and you can see his motivations in doing this.

These wingers have ALWAYS been this hateful/xenophobic, but during his term where not (publicly) this brazen in showing their hatred. I don't mean your neighbor/coworker/etc - I mean the talking heads. The people who clearly control the message - and through the message - the thought processes of so many Americans.

So yes, he/his administration had these nutjobs on a leash. The comparison then-to-now clearly shows this.


I really hate how people give Bush a pass now that he is not in power. He was a horrible person and a horrible president. I know it is natural to give him a pass now that he has no power but no...he was farking horrible and caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.
 
2012-08-07 03:39:12 AM  

mrshowrules: Nobodyn0se: mrshowrules: cabbyman: Has anyone mentioned that the amount of violence displayed in this incident is literally a weekly occurrence in Chicago?

More Americans died of accidental shootings since 9/11 than on 9/11. Compare the news coverage on that gem.

An incident involving thousands of people dying at the same time on national television got more press coverage than a series of accidents in which random people died one at a time?!?!?!

THE HORROR!111111

You missed my point. I was reflecting the lameness of the original point.


On the other hand, I agree with your larger point, that homicide rate in Chicago is not an apt comparison to a mass shooting (just as a mid-air collision of two jumbo jets that kills 500 people should not be considered insignificant simply because many more people than that are killed in road accidents every day). So I really have no idea why I just typed all those words.

Isn't insomnia wonderful?
 
2012-08-07 03:58:31 AM  
But the Muslims... cuz sharia.
 
2012-08-07 03:59:12 AM  

Sabyen91: bk3k: Sabyen91: bk3k: Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in.

Oh, bullshiat. He had one cute little speech about Muslims. That is all.

Its pretty well known the right wing message/propaganda talking points gets assembled/controlled/distributed behind the scenes. They all have the exact same thing to say at exactly the same time - pretty well every time. I mainly mean the talking heads, but their politicians tend to follow suit closely.

Now if you need evidence of the Bush administration doing this - look at what was said during their term versus what is openly said now. It is very clearly gotten much worse. In fact, the change was just about instant. Consider his connections to the Saudi family(for example), and you can see his motivations in doing this.

These wingers have ALWAYS been this hateful/xenophobic, but during his term where not (publicly) this brazen in showing their hatred. I don't mean your neighbor/coworker/etc - I mean the talking heads. The people who clearly control the message - and through the message - the thought processes of so many Americans.

So yes, he/his administration had these nutjobs on a leash. The comparison then-to-now clearly shows this.

I really hate how people give Bush a pass now that he is not in power. He was a horrible person and a horrible president. I know it is natural to give him a pass now that he has no power but no...he was farking horrible and caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.


Oh I agree on all points that he was a HORRIBLE president - and illegitimately "elected" in the first place. He did so very many things wrong, and assembling a complete/comprehensive list could take solid weeks of free time. I'm so very not interested in giving him a "free pass." But consider that when there is so very much LEGITIMATE material to criticize him on, that hitting him on probably the only half-decent thing he ever did is absolutely needless and just senseless. It muddies the water and de-legitimizes his critics.

Yes, his horrible presidency should never be forgiven. You absolutely are correct to shiat on his administration, but lets stick to the facts. Thanks.
 
2012-08-07 04:47:15 AM  

bk3k: Sabyen91: bk3k: Sabyen91: bk3k: Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in.

Oh, bullshiat. He had one cute little speech about Muslims. That is all.

Its pretty well known the right wing message/propaganda talking points gets assembled/controlled/distributed behind the scenes. They all have the exact same thing to say at exactly the same time - pretty well every time. I mainly mean the talking heads, but their politicians tend to follow suit closely.

Now if you need evidence of the Bush administration doing this - look at what was said during their term versus what is openly said now. It is very clearly gotten much worse. In fact, the change was just about instant. Consider his connections to the Saudi family(for example), and you can see his motivations in doing this.

These wingers have ALWAYS been this hateful/xenophobic, but during his term where not (publicly) this brazen in showing their hatred. I don't mean your neighbor/coworker/etc - I mean the talking heads. The people who clearly control the message - and through the message - the thought processes of so many Americans.

So yes, he/his administration had these nutjobs on a leash. The comparison then-to-now clearly shows this.

I really hate how people give Bush a pass now that he is not in power. He was a horrible person and a horrible president. I know it is natural to give him a pass now that he has no power but no...he was farking horrible and caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.

Oh I agree on all points that he was a HORRIBLE president - and illegitimately "elected" in the first place. He did so very many things wrong, and assembling a complete/comprehensive list could take solid weeks of free time. I'm so very not interested in giving him a "free pass." But consider that when there is so very much LEGITIMATE material to criticize him on, that hitting him on probably the only half-decent thing he ever did is absolutely needless and just senseless. It muddies t ...


I am not sure what facts you are speaking of...
 
2012-08-07 04:51:07 AM  

bk3k: Sabyen91: bk3k: Sabyen91: bk3k: Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in.

Oh, bullshiat. He had one cute little speech about Muslims. That is all.

Its pretty well known the right wing message/propaganda talking points gets assembled/controlled/distributed behind the scenes. They all have the exact same thing to say at exactly the same time - pretty well every time. I mainly mean the talking heads, but their politicians tend to follow suit closely.

Now if you need evidence of the Bush administration doing this - look at what was said during their term versus what is openly said now. It is very clearly gotten much worse. In fact, the change was just about instant. Consider his connections to the Saudi family(for example), and you can see his motivations in doing this.

These wingers have ALWAYS been this hateful/xenophobic, but during his term where not (publicly) this brazen in showing their hatred. I don't mean your neighbor/coworker/etc - I mean the talking heads. The people who clearly control the message - and through the message - the thought processes of so many Americans.

So yes, he/his administration had these nutjobs on a leash. The comparison then-to-now clearly shows this.

I really hate how people give Bush a pass now that he is not in power. He was a horrible person and a horrible president. I know it is natural to give him a pass now that he has no power but no...he was farking horrible and caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.

Oh I agree on all points that he was a HORRIBLE president - and illegitimately "elected" in the first place. He did so very many things wrong, and assembling a complete/comprehensive list could take solid weeks of free time. I'm so very not interested in giving him a "free pass." But consider that when there is so very much LEGITIMATE material to criticize him on, that hitting him on probably the only half-decent thing he ever did is absolutely needless and just senseless. It muddies t ...


I am disgusted that people are giving him a pass on being a shiatty president. There is no excuse for that.
 
2012-08-07 05:42:43 AM  

bk3k: Sabyen91: bk3k: Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in.

Oh, bullshiat. He had one cute little speech about Muslims. That is all.

Its pretty well known the right wing message/propaganda talking points gets assembled/controlled/distributed behind the scenes. They all have the exact same thing to say at exactly the same time - pretty well every time. I mainly mean the talking heads, but their politicians tend to follow suit closely.

Now if you need evidence of the Bush administration doing this - look at what was said during their term versus what is openly said now. It is very clearly gotten much worse. In fact, the change was just about instant. Consider his connections to the Saudi family(for example), and you can see his motivations in doing this.

These wingers have ALWAYS been this hateful/xenophobic, but during his term where not (publicly) this brazen in showing their hatred. I don't mean your neighbor/coworker/etc - I mean the talking heads. The people who clearly control the message - and through the message - the thought processes of so many Americans.

So yes, he/his administration had these nutjobs on a leash. The comparison then-to-now clearly shows this.


I really don't think they were "put on a leash" at all. I think it was more of a case of "hey, our guy is in power now, so obviously he's working on xyz behind the scenes. He can't go public with it thanks to those damn PC libz, so we should just be patient and everything will work itself out."

Then America elected a black guy and they all totally lost their shiat because their "patience" had been in vain.
 
2012-08-07 06:21:38 AM  

GAT_00: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/08/04/missouri-prayer-am e ndment-vote_n_1739968.html


I disagree with everything you stand for, but appreciate you putting this info up here.

Also, Matthew 6 has something to say about praying in public. Mainly, "don't".
 
2012-08-07 07:15:43 AM  
"Right wing extremeism"?

Don't you mean "The GOP base"?

Funny how they didn't care when GWB was in power.
 
2012-08-07 07:31:10 AM  

Nome de Plume: We must disarm all Americans at once! It is the only way...


Yeah, let's not forget the real victim here - some short-dick with a closet full of guns, safe in his house, a thousand miles away.
F**kin' crybabies. I thought guns were supposed to make you a big, tough man. Looks more like they make you a crybaby-assed little pussy.
 
2012-08-07 07:44:16 AM  

burning_bridge: cman: Grand standing of "I told you so" does not befit you, Kos, like it does not befit anyone else who does it

Your statement implies that these guys are your "side," part of your "team." Because otherwise you wouldn't be giving grief over grand standing, instead you'd be saying "wow, we were really wrong and these animals don't represent us in any way."

But you're not saying that, are you? You never cease to amaze me at just how low and disgusting you are.


How in the blue hell did you get all that from what I said?

FFS, I was just saying that "I told you so" is pointless stupidity.
 
2012-08-07 08:13:49 AM  
The point at which I thought the Republican party had lost control of the "mob" they were throwing red meat at was at the end of the McCain campaign when he went to give his concession speech. He had a lot of trouble getting his crowd under control. I remember seeing that and thinking, "they've created a mob, set the tone, and promptly lost control of it".

It wasn't long before the Tea Party started protesting. Xenophobes and then racists started thinking it was okay to voice their opinions in public (even had a few try to "joke" with me about the President... people I didn't even know). Politicians started catering to some of these hate groups by enacting laws against things that aren't even an issue (banning Sharia law). The Republican party started blocking everything the President wanted to do or anything that might end up helping the country, even when they knew it was going to do things like hurt our credit rating.

Personally... I don't think this kind of thing is going to stop until the Republicans purge the racists from their ranks publicly and stop catering to those folks. Then the racists won't have a political home to turn to. It would marginalize them.

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. I don't think the Republicans are strong enough of character to even admit that they've made a mistake and certainly not brave enough to purge the racists from their ranks. They've spent decades cultivating them as a voting demographic and it's all too easy for them to use the current President as a rallying point for their hatred... all in the name of gaining power. Which... as everyone knows... is the absolute most important thing to Republicans. Power is everything to them.
 
2012-08-07 08:17:30 AM  

cman: I was just saying that "I told you so" is pointless stupidity.


Technically, "I told you so", isn't stupid or pointless. It lets the person who was incorrect know that they were incorrect and points to the fact that someone else was correct where they were wrong. In the future, it could serve us all well to look to those who were correct instead of continuing to listen to those that were not.

Not that the right wingers ever admit they were wrong... or learn from their mistakes. But that is what "I told you so" is really about.
 
2012-08-07 08:27:20 AM  
There's a consensus now among Freepers and Foxers that this guy was a Manchurian Candidate who was created and manipulated by liberals in order to make conservatives "look bad". Because no conservative would ever be motivated to actually shoot at people. And besides, and Sikhs are Aryans, which means that they're Good Guys and thus no genuine conservative would ever shoot an Aryan.

Something like that.

Of course, at the same time they're cheering the burning of the Missouri mosque.
 
2012-08-07 08:51:30 AM  

MyRandomName: Jared loughner was not right wing you ignorant pos


Yep. Nothing right-wing about anti-abortion stances, believing women should not serve in positions of authority or believing the government is a nefarious mechanism aimed at subverting American success. Nope. That's totally not a right-wing set of ideas at all. No siree.

You keep telling yourself, though, that this lunatic's insanity would have led him down exactly the same path if he'd been influenced by left-wing ideas like wind power, veganism and gay rights. Whatever it takes for you to pretend your ideas aren't killing Americans, I guess. If he'd fallen in with a wild pack of flamboyantly gay stereotypes he'd probably have killed just as many people. Yep. Totally.

Just like the guy in Pittsburgh who killed those cops because he thought they were coming to take his guns. He'd have probably killed them with a paring knife instead (coming to take his tofu, you know) if he'd been influenced by lefties instead of people like Bill O'Reilly. Or Adkisson. Or Scott Roeder. Or the guy who shot up the Holocaust museum. Or the people who burned the mosque in Joplin.

Yep... totally not a pattern here of right-wing terrorism.... not at all.... totally can't blame the increasingly misogynistic, racist, homophobic, xenophobic platform of the right. Nope. Not at all. This is allllllll a coincidence and the right's views are perfectly reasonable and sane and not in the least bit responsible for all these coincidental actions against the same people they're always ranting about. Alllll a coincidence.
 
2012-08-07 09:31:14 AM  
The Department of Hind Sight has a good many studies on potential threats. If you dig deep enough you'll probably find stuff on Martians or rampaging Canadians.
None of it actually helps since they seem to ignore things that haven't already made the news.

Aside from that: This guy had a record for odd and criminal behavior. I'd think his motives would have be associated with a group or movement to graduate from lone gunman to organized terrorism.
This attack certainly qualifies as a hate crime, but it doesn't seem to be much more than that... yet.

/I don't think this is the tip of the iceberg we are looking for.
 
2012-08-07 10:10:56 AM  

zarberg: Cletus C.: But seriously, white supremacists are like radiation. Not even their mothers love them. They sometimes get a missing-teethed, abused-by-father, firth-grade dropout babe to fight over but they're hated. By everybody.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic (which would mean you actually like white supremacists) or if you're doing one of those 5th-grade-esque course reversals in a desperate attempt to keep everyone from thinking you're an idiot.


Um, I think I'll go with B. But those weren't great choices, you'll have to admit.
 
2012-08-07 11:01:23 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I really don't follow many people that closely to see patterns like this. But, oh, off the top of my head, I'm gonna guess Penn State has something to do with it.


BSABSVR: He also isn't much of a 1st amendment fan. And is a Penn State apologist.


Ahhh, okay. I've been avoiding the Penn State threads for a reason.
 
2012-08-07 11:13:33 AM  

way south: Aside from that: This guy had a record for odd and criminal behavior. I'd think his motives would have be associated with a group or movement to graduate from lone gunman to organized terrorism.
This attack certainly qualifies as a hate crime, but it doesn't seem to be much more than that... yet.

/I don't think this is the tip of the iceberg we are looking for.


How many "isolated incidents" have to occur before we stop pretending that this isn't a direct result of the radicalization of conservatism in America?

American conservatism has moved sharply toward the extreme over the last fifteen years. Numerous major market media outlets are now routinely airing homophobic, racist, xenophobic and politically heated rants from conservative talking heads. They have their own 24/7 news network. They have an established network of blogs and online conservative "news" sites.

When these radicalized nuts turn on their TV, they hear people ranting against liberals, gays, Mexicans, blacks, everybody they already hated and then when there's an uproar they see actual elected officials and major personalities rising to the defense of the hate speech. They believe that America has finally turned in the direction they've been claiming it would for the last fifty years and they believe that the time has come to actually do something about their crazy ideas and stop just talking about it and they pick up guns and they go shoot liberals and abortion doctors and immigrants and they bomb and burn churches and federal buildings.

Freedom of speech should be tempered by responsibility and with the right that's not happening anymore. They're marching around with signs threatening blood shed and shooting and then they're trying to pretend they hold no responsibility when blood shed and shooting happens.

This is terrorism and it's being pushed forward by what has become the mainstream conservative bloc. Irresponsible, incendiary and violent conservative hate speech is getting people killed. These are not isolated incidents, these are concerted acts of terror egged on by politicians and major media outlets. You don't get to spend years demonizing people and then act like it's not your fault when unhinged people go out and start trying to slay those "demons". Somebody tried that this past century. It got real ugly. And this is going to get real ugly too unless a lot of really irresponsible people on the right wise up real quick and start tempering their ugly outbursts with a little bit of personal responsibility. They can oppose the things they oppose and participate in legitimate political debates with their opponents without the constant invocations of violent imagery and it's time they learn how to do that again before they kill anybody else.
 
2012-08-07 11:42:08 AM  
Over-zealous staffer White Guy, nothing to see here, move along.
 
2012-08-07 11:44:31 AM  
Well to be fair here, it isn't like DHS and NSA and FBI ignored the report. It was just slammed by the usual suspects (herpaderpa conservative and teabaggers and racists) who wanted to attack Obama for it or didn' t like having their plans exposed.
 
2012-08-07 12:02:10 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: way south: Aside from that: This guy had a record for odd and criminal behavior. I'd think his motives would have be associated with a group or movement to graduate from lone gunman to organized terrorism.
This attack certainly qualifies as a hate crime, but it doesn't seem to be much more than that... yet.

/I don't think this is the tip of the iceberg we are looking for.

How many "isolated incidents" have to occur before we stop pretending that this isn't a direct result of the radicalization of conservatism in America?


Jim David Adkisson:

Isolated incident.

Scott Roeder:

Isolated incident.

Richard Poplawski:

Isolated incident.

James Cumming:

Isolated incident.

Joshua Cartwright:

Isolated incident.

Hal Turner:

Isolated incident.

James W. von Brunn:

Isolated incident.

Joshua Bowman:

Isolated incident.

John Brek:

Isolated incident.

Warren Taylor:

Isolated incident.

Mark Campano:

Isolated incident.

Charles Allan Dyer:

Isolated incident.

Gregory Girard:

Isolated incident.

JT Ready:

Isolated incident.

Dennis Mahon:

Isolated incident.

Joseph Stack:

Isolated incident. Plus, it was the IRS. We want to abolish it anyway.

Jared Loughner

Isolated Incident.

Wade Michael Page

Isolated incident.
 
2012-08-07 12:05:03 PM  

theorellior: StreetlightInTheGhetto: I really don't follow many people that closely to see patterns like this. But, oh, off the top of my head, I'm gonna guess Penn State has something to do with it.

BSABSVR: He also isn't much of a 1st amendment fan. And is a Penn State apologist.

Ahhh, okay. I've been avoiding the Penn State threads for a reason.


And these two, among many others, are the reason...not GAT.
 
2012-08-07 12:48:53 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: How many "isolated incidents" have to occur before we stop pretending that this isn't a direct result of the radicalization of conservatism in America?


How many left wing bomb throwing communists did it take during the 50's and 60's to justify McCarthyism?

When we were done tearing our hair out and ruining peoples lives with false accusations and groundless suspicions, all that was at the bottom of it were a few anarchists and lunatics. All of them together had no singular message or movement. There was no war brewing and no mysterious front ready to destroy America. You could count the number of actual terrorist groups on your fingers.

Dozens of isolated incidents won't justify throwing Rush Libaugh in jail any more than it would justify rounding up all the kids wearing Che Guivara Tee-shirts. The thousands of headcases we've been ignoring since the budget for mental health was slashed don't represent anyones army.
I wouldn't give them further credence by pretending that they do.

We already have laws for dealing with hate speech, so you can feel free to route it out wherever you find it.
...But to go off half cocked on what you think is a conspiracy will only lead us down a path of good intentions to a very dark place.
 
2012-08-07 01:19:20 PM  

way south: ...But to go off half cocked on what you think is a conspiracy will only lead us down a path of good intentions to a very dark place.


At no point did I call anything a conspiracy, suggest anybody be sent to prison for their speech or any of the other complete bullshiat items you invented in your desperate attempt to attack a point I never raised.

Do you have something to say in response to my actual comments or not? I won't sit here and have an argument with you over things you imagined I said.
 
2012-08-07 01:44:08 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: way south: ...But to go off half cocked on what you think is a conspiracy will only lead us down a path of good intentions to a very dark place.

At no point did I call anything a conspiracy, suggest anybody be sent to prison for their speech or any of the other complete bullshiat items you invented in your desperate attempt to attack a point I never raised.

Do you have something to say in response to my actual comments or not? I won't sit here and have an argument with you over things you imagined I said.


I apologize for misreading your direction then. Altho you do seem to throw around the terms terrorism and radicalization very loosely and selectively.
Are you willing to associate all hate crimes and rampage killings equally with their sources of inspiration?
 
2012-08-07 02:14:11 PM  

way south: Are you willing to associate all hate crimes and rampage killings equally with their sources of inspiration?


I've stated my point clearly, either do the same or stop wasting my time. I'm not going to sit and respond to open-ended questions just so you can try and craft an argument around any response I give instead of just speaking your own opinion clearly.

Conservatism in this country has shifted sharply to the right in the last fifteen years. Intolerance against homosexuals, immigrants, women, liberals and non-christians has become routine among policymakers, candidates and major conservative media figures and when this intolerance is criticized even more members of the right leap to the defense of the intolerant instead of condemning their hate speech or calling for decorum.

This then lends a certain level of credibility to fringe lunatics like Wade. It is one thing for a bunch of angry skinhead nobodies to sit around writing screeds to one another about racial superiority and the decay of America at the hands of liberals and atheists. It's another thing entirely when you have sitting members of Congress, candidates and their spokespersons accusing people of being presidential usurpers or accusing their colleagues of being secret communists or suggesting we should "throw acid in the faces" of women that disagree with them.

The irresponsible rabble-rousing of right-wing politicians, the violent edge on their words, is driving lunatics to commit murders. Several killers have explicitly stated their political motivations and have been linked to an interest in people like Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage.

You don't get to march around and wave your violent imagery and hateful speech and then cry foul when people point out that it has uncomfortable similarities to the stated opinions and goals of terrorists like Wade, Brunn, Roeder, and Adkisson. You don't get to cry foul when a deranged lunatic like Loughner attaches to your ideals before attempting to assassinate a Congresswoman and killing six other people including a nine year old girl.

It's long past time for the right to stop pretending that there's nothing wrong with marching about threatening violence, dehumanizing groups of people they disagree with and lending political and media credence to people who do those things. It's time for them to stop pretending overheated, angry rhetoric doesn't have consequences and it's time for them to start participating in discourse honestly and with level heads and reason.

Quit marching around talking about bringing back guns and watering the tree of liberty, quit dehumanizing liberals and gays and immigrants and muslims, and start acting like adults before you get anyone else killed. There's no reason conservatives can't engage in respectful dialogue without the violent imagery and barely-masked threats, they just won't and that needs to change.
 
2012-08-07 03:29:00 PM  

bk3k: Now I hate Dubya with the fire of a thousand suns, but you force me into an awkward position. You are actually forcing me to defend that clown.

Quite frankly - you are full of shiat. Bush always controlled the message to rein these xenophobes in. He did an amazing job keeping them on a leash, and seeing them now (off the leash) only underscores this point. He said many times that "we are at war with terrorists, not Islam," "Islam is a peaceful religion" etc. On this front, he did all one man could ever do.

Having to defend him... I feel so very dirty. I swell with anger and self-loathing. I hope you are happy you asshole.



Except for the parts like

"WITH US OR WITH THE TERRORISTS"
 
2012-08-07 03:31:21 PM  

way south: How many left wing bomb throwing communists did it take during the 50's and 60's to justify McCarthyism?



Name 5

McCarthyism was a witch hunt to stamp out liberalism and intellectuals, professors, anyone who dared question the conservative ruling class.

It's sickening you never learned from history. Typical authoritarians.
 
2012-08-07 04:34:05 PM  

Sabyen91: Chimperror2: Hobo Jr.: You guys(some of you) got it lucky. These crazy right wingers are easy to spot and usually have only small support groups within a community.

I, however, live in the heart of Dixie and I could throw a rock into a crowd and hit ten people who think this Wisconsin nutbag is a martyr.

Really?? Name one. Send him an email explaining why you hate him and the beliefs you attribute to him.

Hahahaha! Look up above that post.


Seoul SK, is the heart of Dixie to you? I guess it has South in the name so I can see how it confused you.
 
2012-08-08 12:29:24 PM  
TheMysticS 2012-08-06 08:17:15 PM
(farky'd: Foghorn Leghorn is metal, indeed 6418146)

Vodka Zombie: Weaver95: Nadie_AZ:

No, I know. I just tire of the whole 'we are a christian nation' argument in which they demand we all be christians. The moment you ask them to define it, it goes to a pile of shiat, derp and aborted fetuses.

the 'we are a christian nation' people offend me on an almost genetic level. that is a demonstrably false allegation and it's something on a dominionist theologian would make up. it implies that ONLY christians are valid citizens of the US and that just pisses me the hell off.

Man... It's nice to see at least TWO people share my feelings.


Add me too


Make that four. The whole concept makes my gut clench in rage, and it's such incredibly horrible timing.
 
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