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(Politico)   Lindsey Graham thinks that Harry Reid thinking that Mitt Romney paid no taxes for 10 years is not a factually based thought   (politico.com) divider line 399
    More: Unlikely, Mitt Romney, Harry Reid, South Carolina Republican, Candy Crowley  
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2158 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Aug 2012 at 11:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-05 10:26:46 AM
so, prove Harry Reid is a liar, Lispy. I don't really gie a damn as long as it forces Mittens to release his tax returns then we can explode that whole myth about how the "Job Creators" need tax cuts.

Your move, sunshine.
 
2012-08-05 10:27:40 AM
Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.
 
2012-08-05 10:40:49 AM

RexTalionis: Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.


He doesn't even have to release every year, just one from when he ran Bain. Just whatever year he found the fewest offsets, and he'll prove Reid wrong. The fact that he won't is all the proof that Reid needs.

And as I've said previously, Reid doesn't stick his neck out EVER. He wouldn't do this unless he knew he had it cold.
 
2012-08-05 10:57:19 AM
Keeping this alive for another 5 news cycles.

Reid is blowing the tune, and these guys are dancing on the bar....
 
2012-08-05 11:19:11 AM
That's a lovely corner you've got there. I really like the new paint all around it.
 
2012-08-05 11:21:12 AM
There's an easy way to refute it.

The problem is that Mitt doesn't want to do it because the truth would be far worse than the accusation that's on the table, and everyone on the Hill knows this. It's just a matter of working the public up to demand it.

There really is no "win" for Romney here. He can't show folks, and if he doesn't, then he winds up looking nearly as bad as if he did.
 
2012-08-05 11:26:28 AM
Put up or shut up

/it's really just that simple
 
2012-08-05 11:37:35 AM
harry reid wouldn't say it if he didn't have good reason. he's not alan grayson. he's anything but a bomb-thrower.
 
2012-08-05 11:48:17 AM
Agreed. The biggest controversy of the campaign - a HUGE one for Romney, is this tax form release. And what's worse, the Party can't find anything of this caliber to hang on Obama. It's a real threat. But at this point, common sense dictates that however bad this controversy is, Romney and his people think that whatever is in those tax forms will be worse for his campaign than not releasing them. And that would have to be pretty damn bad, at this point.

GAT_00 is right - Reid never, EVER sticks his neck out. He wouldn't say this if he couldn't back it. No one with any political sense would. I do wonder if McCain gave him the forms as revenge for the prolonged assrape he received at the hands of the GOP from 2000-2008, but that's kind of far-fetched. (In politics, though, revenge is the only motive I trust to be true.)

Reid's got something. The public will never see it, it will be used as leverage or trade on the Hill, but he's got something good.
 
2012-08-05 11:51:14 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Agreed. The biggest controversy of the campaign - a HUGE one for Romney, is this tax form release. And what's worse, the Party can't find anything of this caliber to hang on Obama. It's a real threat. But at this point, common sense dictates that however bad this controversy is, Romney and his people think that whatever is in those tax forms will be worse for his campaign than not releasing them. And that would have to be pretty damn bad, at this point.

GAT_00 is right - Reid never, EVER sticks his neck out. He wouldn't say this if he couldn't back it. No one with any political sense would. I do wonder if McCain gave him the forms as revenge for the prolonged assrape he received at the hands of the GOP from 2000-2008, but that's kind of far-fetched. (In politics, though, revenge is the only motive I trust to be true.)

Reid's got something. The public will never see it, it will be used as leverage or trade on the Hill, but he's got something good.


About McCain giving Reid the info- I dunno. McCain is pretty close with Lindsay Graham and Graham just called Reid out as a liar. Strange situation, but who knows...
 
2012-08-05 11:53:44 AM
This whole scandal is unsurprising because Harry Reid is such a hothead to makes wild accusations and often puts himself out on a limb.
 
2012-08-05 11:56:45 AM

coco ebert: About McCain giving Reid the info- I dunno. McCain is pretty close with Lindsay Graham and Graham just called Reid out as a liar. Strange situation, but who knows...


Yeah - like I said, it's far-fetched. McCain does seems to have an unending need for Party approval, even as he tries to get all mavericky on them and they fark him six ways from Sunday on a regular basis.

I'd love to know how Reid got the info. But I have no doubt that he has it, and it's really good.
 
2012-08-05 12:04:01 PM
Sen. Lindsey Graham ripped Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on Sunday, accusing him of "lying" about his claims that Mitt Romney didn't pay income taxes for an entire decade.

Okay. Prove he's lying.
 
2012-08-05 12:06:24 PM

RexTalionis: Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.


Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.

Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.
 
2012-08-05 12:07:47 PM

GAT_00: RexTalionis: Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.

He doesn't even have to release every year, just one from when he ran Bain. Just whatever year he found the fewest offsets, and he'll prove Reid wrong. The fact that he won't is all the proof that Reid needs.

And as I've said previously, Reid doesn't stick his neck out EVER. He wouldn't do this unless he knew he had it cold.


I would like him to release every year since the Kennedy race. I have a feeling we'll find the tax returns quite the interesting read.
 
2012-08-05 12:08:59 PM

Bladel: Keeping this alive for another 5 news cycles.

Reid is blowing the tune, and these guys are dancing on the bar....


No, Rmoney is keeping it alive for another 5 news cycles. Do you know the lowest tax rate Rmoney's ever paid? It's under 13%. Beyond that - we don't know.
 
2012-08-05 12:10:45 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
Father, I am not release tax returns even though you did for 12 years and in fact start tradition of releasing tax returns

images.businessweek.com
Son, I am disappoint
 
2012-08-05 12:11:13 PM

DarwiOdrade: RexTalionis: Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.

Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.

Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.


And destroy him at the same time. He is the top Dem in the Senate, why would they let an opportunity like this pass?
 
2012-08-05 12:11:24 PM
Things that Mitt doesn't want to reveal:

- An illegal Swiss bank account that went unreported to the IRS, for which he received amnesty in 2009 to avoid legal and financial penalties

- How much Bain was really paying him in the years after he supposedly left the company in 1999

- How embarrassingly low his tax rate was

- The W9 from a hitman he hired to rape and murder a young girl in 1990, which he pinned on fellow Mormon Glenn Beck
 
2012-08-05 12:12:11 PM
Ok, all the right wing farkers said a couple of days ago said the burden of proof is on the accuser. So Graham here is now making accusations. So then the burden of proof is on him right?

Or is this another double standard?
 
2012-08-05 12:12:35 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I'd love to know how Reid got the info. But I have no doubt that he has it, and it's really good.


Funny...to me the whole thing sounds like a great Catch 22.

If Romney up and releases his tax returns at the very best they're going to find no fraud present, but the amount of money on there has to be astronomical. It's going to blow his chances out of the water once they get those numbers and start looking at everything behind it.

If he doesn't then it still makes him look shady and like he has something to hide. Making the narrative that his entire political career from daring Ted Kennedy to release his tax returns to outsourcing jobs when he was in Massachusetts to willfully reimbursing the cost of taken hard drives when he finished his job there makes him look less than trustworthy.

He either can't be trusted or he can't be trusted. And it's the kind of story that no SuperPAC money is going to be able to kill. At best they can ratchet up the noise to signal ratio, but even then we've only got a few months until the election.

This is, in great part, the worst thing that Romney could have happen to him.
 
2012-08-05 12:13:11 PM
llwproductions.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-05 12:13:21 PM
Honestly, at this point, Romney could release 25 years' worth of squeaky-clean tax returns and it wouldn't matter. It's simply been far too long; the damage has been done. He forgot the first rule of the modern media: Everybody remembers the story, nobody remembers the followup.

/Not that I believe his returns are even close to clean.
//I'm just saying that Romney's campaign is like Murphy's Law come to life.
 
2012-08-05 12:15:56 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Things that Mitt doesn't want to reveal:

- An illegal Swiss bank account that went unreported to the IRS, for which he received amnesty in 2009 to avoid legal and financial penalties

- How much Bain was really paying him in the years after he supposedly left the company in 1999

- How embarrassingly low his tax rate was



You forget no tithing 10% to LDS which would cause the LDS to put him in bad standing.
 
2012-08-05 12:16:53 PM

Corvus: [llwproductions.files.wordpress.com image 777x632]


Mitt is 1/12th the man his father was
 
2012-08-05 12:17:22 PM

Corvus: So Graham here is now making accusations. So then the burden of proof is on him right?


The burden of proof is on both of them, because they're both making distinct claims.

Reid claims that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years. This claim is (relatively) unsubstantiated, and hence, we have no reason to believe it is true other than what faith we put in Reid's reputation, adjusted for how much he stands to benefit from lying to us.

Graham claims Reid is a liar. Again, there is no substance to this claim, and we're left to judge it on the same merits.

In both cases, Romney's tax returns can settle the debate.

Also: there was an article recently where a reporter said her sources confirmed Reid's claim. The evidence that we have supports Reid, but nothing is clinching. Of course, this is politics, not the courtroom- clinching evidence is not required.
 
2012-08-05 12:17:22 PM

Skarekrough: He either can't be trusted or he can't be trusted.


Yeah, that kind of sums it up, right there.
 
2012-08-05 12:17:34 PM
Graham also claims that unemployment has gone up 6% since Obama took office in an interview with Candy Crowley(who,with her incredible journalistic ability,did not question it) ,which means unemployment was at 2.3% at the end of Bush the Retards presidency. I'll have some of what he's smoking.
 
2012-08-05 12:20:05 PM
dtdstudios.com
 
2012-08-05 12:22:28 PM
The thing is, as this whole scandal escalates it wouldn't surprise me if the tax returns weren't released by republican operatives prior to the convention to try to sink Mitt's candicacy and get someone viable in. Romney cannot win if this continues, and apparently he cannot release his tax returns. How many more weeks of this sucking all the oxygen out of the room can the Republican's take? It is all the Sunday morning talk shows discussed this morning....
 
2012-08-05 12:22:59 PM

NewportBarGuy: so, prove Harry Reid is a liar, Lispy. I don't really gie a damn as long as it forces Mittens to release his tax returns then we can explode that whole myth about how the "Job Creators" need tax cuts.

Your move, sunshine.


As much as I dislike Mitt, the burden of proof is entirely on Harry Reid here. It's bullshiat for him to make a claim and say he has a totally credible, anonymous source.
 
2012-08-05 12:23:01 PM
If you've done nothing wrong then you've got nothing to hide. So why not submit those tax returns like you asked your competitors Romney?
 
2012-08-05 12:24:45 PM

Skarekrough: This is, in great part, the worst thing that Romney could have happen to him.


It's also totally inevitable. He's been planning on running for president for a good many years now, and he didn't see this coming? Despite the fact that candidates always release tax returns? Despite the fact that his own father started the tradition? He didn't see this coming, and prepare for it by being nice and squeaky clean for a few years? He's a farking moron.
 
2012-08-05 12:25:36 PM

Russad: NewportBarGuy: so, prove Harry Reid is a liar, Lispy. I don't really gie a damn as long as it forces Mittens to release his tax returns then we can explode that whole myth about how the "Job Creators" need tax cuts.

Your move, sunshine.

As much as I dislike Mitt, the burden of proof is entirely on Harry Reid here. It's bullshiat for him to make a claim and say he has a totally credible, anonymous source.


Actually the burden is on Mitt. He has admitted already that there is something in there that he refuses to show. He stated, and I'm paraphrasing here, that it would be worse for him to release it than to keep it hidden. He also claims that his taxes are on the up-and-up. The two statements are contradictory. Not to mention he badgered prior political competitors to release THEIR tax returns. That is hypocrisy; which is supposedly against both Mormon and Christian beliefs.
 
2012-08-05 12:25:58 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Put up or shut up

/it's really just that simple


Exactly. Harry Reid refuses to put up. Not surprising considering his history of corruption.

Corvus: Ok, all the right wing farkers said a couple of days ago said the burden of proof is on the accuser. So Graham here is now making accusations. So then the burden of proof is on him right?

Or is this another double standard?


You don't understand double standards. Understandably so.
 
2012-08-05 12:26:11 PM

Russad: NewportBarGuy: so, prove Harry Reid is a liar, Lispy. I don't really gie a damn as long as it forces Mittens to release his tax returns then we can explode that whole myth about how the "Job Creators" need tax cuts.

Your move, sunshine.

As much as I dislike Mitt, the burden of proof is entirely on Harry Reid here. It's bullshiat for him to make a claim and say he has a totally credible, anonymous source.


Agreed. If Mitt ever proves Harry wrong, he's going to have so much egg on his face...

Long story short, baseless accusations will not help a legitimate cause. I know the "rich are taxed too much so we need to cut their taxes so they can create jobs" narrative is full of shiat too but let's leave it up to Mitt to prove to us that we're wrong when we say that narrative is BS.
 
2012-08-05 12:26:15 PM

Russad: As much as I dislike Mitt, the burden of proof is entirely on Harry Reid here. It's bullshiat for him to make a claim and say he has a totally credible, anonymous source.


Why? Fox News does it all the time, as does every Republican politician, and all politicians in fact. It's part of the game. Mittens can either play the game or get the f*ck out of the pool.
 
2012-08-05 12:26:38 PM
..........yea, its not factually based until Rmoney releases his tax records over the last 10 years (which he won't do). if he did, then it would be factually based.

i don't see the big deal. the fact that that Turd is making it a big deal suggests maybe there is something to hide.....
 
2012-08-05 12:26:51 PM
The ads just write themselves. "Mitt Romney won't release his tax returns. Why won't Mitt Romney release his tax returns? What are you hiding, Mitt Romney?" Frankly, if he won't release the returns because they contain information the Democrats might use against him, he did something wrong and deserves to have the information used against him.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Mitt withdrew from the race right before the convention? It just never occurred to him he might have to choose between being president and keeping all his money. Ideally, he shouldn't be allowed to do either. $100 million in his IRA? Forfeit. With triple damages. Go move in with your horse, Ann, while Mittens spends a few years in jail.
 
2012-08-05 12:27:14 PM
Dear Senator Graham,

How do you think your boy Romney is going to look in November after spending 3 months attacking anyone who says he should release his tax records? Suspicious? Untrustworthy? Sneaky?

Better luck in 2016.
 
2012-08-05 12:27:14 PM

SixPaperJoint: DarwiOdrade: RexTalionis: Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.

Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.

Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.

And destroy him at the same time. He is the top Dem in the Senate, why would they let an opportunity like this pass?


We're just asking questions!
 
2012-08-05 12:27:16 PM

RexTalionis: Mitt Romney can easily prove him wrong.



but he won't. wink wink.
 
2012-08-05 12:29:02 PM

deadcrickets: Actually the burden is on Mitt


Not in a sense of "what is true", it isn't. Reid is making the positive assertion that Mitt has done something wrong, and it falls to Reid to prove that wrongdoing. Mitt's defense of, "The IRS checked me out, they approved, I've done nothing wrong," is sufficient to establish veracity.

But we're not discussing truth. We're discussing politics. Reid has created a perception that may or may not be true- but Romney's only way to dispel that perception would be to release information that likely would provide more ammunition.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Reid is lying and Romney's taxes are pretty bog-standard for someone in his income bracket. A shrewd campaign, like Obama's, could easily go through that set of returns and find all sorts of things that would make Romney look bad, even if there's nothing illegal or even terribly unusual in his returns.
 
Ehh
2012-08-05 12:29:10 PM
Graham, FTA: "Let's start talking about the real issues that matter to real people."

OK, Lindsey--let's talk about cutting taxes for the ultra-rich and raising them for people earning less than a quarter million per year. Let's talk about class. Let's talk about jobs. So much to talk about!

/real person
/real American
 
2012-08-05 12:29:45 PM

Ed Finnerty: That's a lovely corner you've got there. I really like the new paint all around it.


Ed Finnerty: [dtdstudios.com image 843x403]



a picture is worth a thousand words. too funny.
 
2012-08-05 12:30:30 PM
Not only did Reid say it to Huffington Post, but reiterated the same thing on the Senate Floor, and then PUT IT DOWN IN WRITING saying exactly the same thing. Reid has completely owned up to his statements and has not equivocated on it.

Tell me how many politicians have completely owned up to some claim via consistent statements to the press, on the senate floor (where the words are recorded and transcribed) and in written text?

Do you think Reid did all this with just speculation?

Romney changes his tune, literally, within days -- sometimes hours, going from one position to the direct opposite. Reid, on the other hand, has staked a position and tripled downed on that stake. I don't think Reid is lying.
 
2012-08-05 12:32:13 PM

Mrbogey: Corvus: Ok, all the right wing farkers said a couple of days ago said the burden of proof is on the accuser. So Graham here is now making accusations. So then the burden of proof is on him right?

Or is this another double standard?

You don't understand double standards. Understandably so.


How so?

We were told Reid was make accusations so he had to have proof for them. Why doesn't Graham or Romney need proof for their allegations that this Reid is lying?

Please explain instead of just refuting.
 
2012-08-05 12:32:30 PM

Bontesla: No, Rmoney is keeping it alive for another 5 news cycles.


To what end?

If I were on his campaign, I'd be looking for a way to farking BURY this. And I'd be pissed off that Graham gave it one more chance in the public eye. Maybe amiable is right - maybe the GOP is going to fark with him on this. But that would lose them the election for sure. But then again, they don't have much of a chance as it stands, especially with Romney.
 
2012-08-05 12:32:50 PM

t3knomanser: deadcrickets: Actually the burden is on Mitt

Not in a sense of "what is true", it isn't. Reid is making the positive assertion that Mitt has done something wrong, and it falls to Reid to prove that wrongdoing. Mitt's defense of, "The IRS checked me out, they approved, I've done nothing wrong," is sufficient to establish veracity.

But we're not discussing truth. We're discussing politics. Reid has created a perception that may or may not be true- but Romney's only way to dispel that perception would be to release information that likely would provide more ammunition.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Reid is lying and Romney's taxes are pretty bog-standard for someone in his income bracket. A shrewd campaign, like Obama's, could easily go through that set of returns and find all sorts of things that would make Romney look bad, even if there's nothing illegal or even terribly unusual in his returns.


But who made the claims first? Mitt did. Mitt claims he has done nothing wrong while on the other hand openly admitting that releasing his tax returns would make it worse. Translation: there is something in there that is very, very, very bad and would tank his campaign. His only real way to dispel the perception is to release those tax returns. If he keeps putting it off until the election he'll lose simply because of two issues (which he's already failing on): likeability and trust. People do NOT vote for those they can't trust or don't like.
 
2012-08-05 12:33:21 PM

Russad: As much as I dislike Mitt, the burden of proof is entirely on Harry Reid here. It's bullshiat for him to make a claim and say he has a totally credible, anonymous source.


It would be as if I said:

'I have it on "good authority" that some of the most prolific Fark political posters are in fact paid political activists for the DNC and various pro-Obama PACs. They can prove me wrong by posting their personal identities along with place of employment. I'm sure nobody will use the info for further attacks.'

The whole Reid thing and focus on the tax returns is so they can use some unrelated issue to cast him as elitist.

"Oh my God. Look at that. He deducted $20,000 in 2006 on business suits. I bet he eats arugula too!"

Yes, I'm aware arugula was a GOP thing. The interesting quirk is that Dems will use the same attacks they criticize Republicans for making with no hint of irony.

/Republicans are unpatriotic and treasonous
 
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