They really dropped that ball on that one, then.

Ed Finnerty: They really dropped that ball on that one, then.

Yeah, they only have 68% of the market in sales. Real miss there.

t3knomanser: I still don't believe Apple's releasing a 7" iPad. If they release a device with a 7" screen, it's going to be something far more limited than an iPad.

What a 7" iPad might look like. One that can do everything an iPad can do.

The driving force behind apples competitive edge with the iPhone and iPad is gone... the remaining executives at apple are going to stay in a perpetual state of 'analysis paralysis' trying to answer the question of "what would Steve Jobs do?" as the markets passes them by and they become has beens.

Actually, at the rumored 7.85 inches, you would call it an 8 inch tablet, not a 7 inch tablet.

/rounding
//how does it work?

0Icky0: One that can do everything an iPad can do.

The Nexus 7 is a really nice bit of hardware (especially for the price), but it only has a tiny fraction of the number of apps designed for iPad.

Sadly, a large portion of the apps you will find running on the Nexus 7 are nothing more than scaled up smartphone apps.

Perhaps having a good number of devices out there will finally draw in more developers to produce apps specifically designed for the amount of screen real estate available. Let's not pretend it's anywhere close right now though.

I hope Apple is still trying to invent "the next iPad" (whatever that device will be that will capture the market) and not just inventing newer and better iPads.

dwrash: The driving force behind apples competitive edge with the iPhone and iPad is gone... the remaining executives at apple are going to stay in a perpetual state of 'analysis paralysis' trying to answer the question of "what would Steve Jobs do?" as the markets passes them by and they become has beens.

Fortunately, wrist bands with the initials WWJD to remind them to ask "what would Jobs do?" are readily available.

I imagine that they're going to lie and pretend everything they release in the next ten years will have "the blessing of Steve".

This is what happens when you build a business around the apotheosis of one man's ideas.

Apple is going to plunge of a cliff in the next few years. Their entire business is based around 3 fashion products. When the fashion wind changes, they're toast


Crocs anyone?

0Icky0: t3knomanser: I still don't believe Apple's releasing a 7" iPad. If they release a device with a 7" screen, it's going to be something far more limited than an iPad.

What a 7" iPad might look like. One that can do everything an iPad can do.
[www.talkandroid.com image 625x451]

I looked at one when i was getting a new phone. Seemed to me that the galaxy note was in that sweet spot where it's too big to be a phone, but too small to be an effective tablet. I got a Galaxy S2X (Telus). Plan on getting a laptop later, something with hundreds of gigs of space, an i7-m cpu and such.

How to Cook for Forty Humans!

A-HA!!!1!!!11!1!11ity!

/I want to BELIEVE Saint Steve of Jobs intended for everything that is Good in the universe!1111!1!!

0Icky0:
What a 7" iPad might look like. One that can do everything an iPad can do.
[www.talkandroid.com image 625x451]

I wasn't aware Apple had licensed iOS to any 3rd party OEM's. I think you'll find that device is running Android and thus incapable of dealing with iOS compiled applications despite the two devices (this and iPad) having a common processor type (that being ARM).

So no... that can't do anything an actual iPad can do; it's physically incapable of it. Nor is an iPad capable of doing anything that device can do; iOS can't run Android apps so same problem different logo.

NeoCortex42: Bungles: I imagine that they're going to lie and pretend everything they release in the next ten years will have "the blessing of Steve".

This is what happens when you build a business around the apotheosis of one man's ideas.

Apple is going to plunge of a cliff in the next few years. Their entire business is based around 3 fashion products. When the fashion wind changes, they're toast


I figure there was probably a good 5-10 year road map in place by the time Jobs died. So they should be set with new products for the next few years. After that, they can easily coast for a few years on incremental upgrades. I'd say Apple probably won't have any major problems for close to ten years. It won't crash and burn nearly as quickly as it did last time Jobs left.



A 10 year road map? Are you seriously suggesting that Apple would have had the iPad planned out when they were releasing an first gen LCD iPod? That's total fantasy.


Tech release plans are entirely about tech parts. Apple have no idea what Samsung or Toshiba will be releasing in 2022. Iphones came about because other companies cracked the small, affordable capacitive touch screen in 2006, not because Apple wanted to release a touchscreen phone in 2007. If Samsung releases the holoscreen in 2020, then Apple's release will have a holoscreen, not because there was some mystical document written in 2010 that decreed Apple would release a holophone in 2020.

JosephFinn: Ed Finnerty: They really dropped that ball on that one, then.

Yeah, they only have 68% of the market in sales. Real miss there.

They have 68% of the 7" smart phone market in sales? I guess I missed that part.

NeoCortex42: Bungles: NeoCortex42: Bungles: I imagine that they're going to lie and pretend everything they release in the next ten years will have "the blessing of Steve".

This is what happens when you build a business around the apotheosis of one man's ideas.

Apple is going to plunge of a cliff in the next few years. Their entire business is based around 3 fashion products. When the fashion wind changes, they're toast


I figure there was probably a good 5-10 year road map in place by the time Jobs died. So they should be set with new products for the next few years. After that, they can easily coast for a few years on incremental upgrades. I'd say Apple probably won't have any major problems for close to ten years. It won't crash and burn nearly as quickly as it did last time Jobs left.



A 10 year road map? Are you seriously suggesting that Apple would have had the iPad planned out when they were releasing an first gen LCD iPod? That's total fantasy.


Tech release plans are entirely about tech parts. Apple have no idea what Samsung or Toshiba will be releasing in 2022. Iphones came about because other companies cracked the small, affordable capacitive touch screen in 2006, not because Apple wanted to release a touchscreen phone in 2007. If Samsung releases the holoscreen in 2020, then Apple's release will have a holoscreen, not because there was some mystical document written in 2010 that decreed Apple would release a holophone in 2020.

10 years is a bit much, but I'm sure there's at least a five-year plan in place, with maybe some vague directions beyond that. My point is just that they can likely coast for a number of years before the loss of Jobs really hits them.



I'm pretty sure that his day-to-day influence had been minimal for years, and certainly little future plans made.

Just look at what happened when he took his first health sabbatical: they release the shuffle without any on-board controls whatsoever, and everything controlled via the headphones.... headphones that the entire main demographic it was aimed at (runners and keep-fit folks) would change immediately for proper in-ear buds.

It's a little like the new Pro being released without an ethernet port... which somewhat undermines how "pro" people use them in a real work environment.


It's just those little things that suggest that there's a bizarre lack of real-world thinkers at Apple, beyond Jobs. Given Apple raison d'être is polish, it's inexcusable.

Bungles: Apple is going to plunge of a cliff in the next few years. Their entire business is based around 3 fashion products. When the fashion wind changes, they're toast

Crocs anyone?

This is what Android fanboys actually believe.

StingerJ: Bungles: Apple is going to plunge of a cliff in the next few years. Their entire business is based around 3 fashion products. When the fashion wind changes, they're toast

Crocs anyone?

This is what Android fanboys actually believe.


Ummm, I have an iPhone.

It's what actual people who've been alive more than a decade believe, because this isn't something new. Apple is incredibly vulnerable because they have their eggs in so few baskets.

LasersHurt: Ed Finnerty: JosephFinn: Ed Finnerty: They really dropped that ball on that one, then.

Yeah, they only have 68% of the market in sales. Real miss there.

They have 68% of the 7" smart phone market in sales? I guess I missed that part.

7" Smart Phone is an oxymoron. That's a ridiculous size for a phone.

Not if you're Rocky Dennis.

NeoCortex42: Bungles: StingerJ: Bungles: Apple is going to plunge of a cliff in the next few years. Their entire business is based around 3 fashion products. When the fashion wind changes, they're toast

Crocs anyone?

This is what Android fanboys actually believe.


Ummm, I have an iPhone.

It's what actual people who've been alive more than a decade believe, because this isn't something new. Apple is incredibly vulnerable because they have their eggs in so few baskets.

It all depends on what Apple's "next big thing is". This is how the company has always been. They make something great, then ride that for a while, with people thinking they're a one-trick pony, then they come out with something that "changes everything". The iMac, the iPod, and the iPhone all had this effect. If Apple can come up with a new big thing in the next few years, then I think it will go a long way towards public confidence that the company will be alright without Jobs. If they only coast on existing products with incremental upgrades, they'll probably be gone before too long.



I agree, but finding a "golden product" every 5 years is incredibly difficult business plan, especially if the man who was apparently the font of those ideas is no longer around. They also have an incredibly expensive network of stores which will drain the coffers of even a company that's currently so cash-rich without a perpetual massive income.

The problem with the golden product business plan is usually those products become "fashion" items (because they peak so high and become ubiquitous, and therefore very associated with a time period), which gives them a short half-life, and a likelihood to sink without trace. Things like the Walkman, the iPod, etc. It's a very high pressure/high risk strategy.


The problem is that the next golden tech product will probably be something along the lines of Project Glass in a decade or so, and Apple doesn't seem to be getting in that game.

Bungles: Just look at what happened when he took his first health sabbatical: they release the shuffle without any on-board controls whatsoever, and everything controlled via the he ...

The Pro (specifically rMBP's) with the lack of ethernet is, I agree, something of a mystery. However, people said the same thing about the original iMac and it's lack of ADB (Apple Desktop Bus for those wondering) ports in favour of this new weird thing called USB.

Whist they have a thunderbolt->ethernet dongle, it is surprising they haven't released a more full flavour dock which has additional USB ports, ethernet and a display port on it. I can get behind the idea of the laptop being as grunty as an iMac but you can wander around with it but you still, one would think, need a way to turn it back in to an iMac when you're at your desk.

The Air, fine, it's an ultraportable. The Pro line is supposed to be the workhorses of the Mac lineup.

Bungles: A 10 year road map? Are you seriously suggesting that Apple would have had the iPad planned out when they were releasing an first gen LCD iPod? That's total fantasy.

Actually they did.

NeoCortex42: If they only coast on existing products with incremental upgrades, they'll probably be gone before too long.

Sort of like Microsoft, with updates to Windows and Office being their major source of income for the past 20 years?

They have all but disappeared from the marketplace.

Bungles: The problem is that the next golden tech product will probably be something along the lines of Project Glass in a decade or so, and Apple doesn't seem to be getting in that game.

They already have, allegedly, prototypes of their own version of Glass, I've also heard about a 'smart watch'. The recent Samsung trial and the release of the images showing prototype iPad's from 2002/2001 does show that Apple are A) very good at keeping secrets they want kept B) plan for the long term. I'd also point out Project Marklar (aka the G4 with the P4) as another example of Apple planning for long term possibilities.

Apple actually has quite a few avenues it can explore, take the Apple TV line. They sell reasonably well, however their is a distinct lack of content for them and they don't generally fit in too well with the rest of the devices in the Apple ecosystem. It's this lack of content that makes these devices less popular (even Google's version couldn't get traction); with all that cash in the bank Apple could quite easily start funding content creators and setting up exclusive deals.

The more content, the more people will buy the device... which means more customers wandering around the app store buying stuff in theory.

The Mac Pro is a massive jump (both in price and capabilities) from a high end iMac, a mini-Pro could be an interesting idea that wouldn't cannibalise either the Pro, iMac or MBP sales.

So yeah, plenty of places Apple could go, will it remain this multi-billion dollar company though? Probably not.

NeoCortex42: I figure there was probably a good 5-10 year road map in place by the time Jobs died. So they should be set with new products for the next few years. After that, they can easily coast for a few years on incremental upgrades. I'd say Apple probably won't have any major problems for close to ten years. It won't crash and burn nearly as quickly as it did last time Jobs left.

The problem for Apple is that they need to find a whole new market to enter because their products have hit a level of maturity where very few people will pay for state-of-the-art. The iPhone 5 will be better than the 4S but we're not going to see things like adding GPS and 3G, more like slightly thinner or slightly faster browsing.

Bungles: I imagine that they're going to lie and pretend everything they release in the next ten years will have "the blessing of Steve".

This is what happens when you build a business around the apotheosis of one man's ideas.

Apple is going to plunge of a cliff in the next few years. Their entire business is based around 3 fashion products. When the fashion wind changes, they're toast


Crocs anyone?

lol. Yeah, because Apple is just some fly by night company.

Vaneshi: Bungles: Just look at what happened when he took his first health sabbatical: they release the shuffle without any on-board controls whatsoever, and everything controlled via the he ...

Whist they have a thunderbolt->ethernet dongle, it is surprising they haven't released a more full flavour dock which has additional USB ports, ethernet and a display port on it. I can get behind the idea of the laptop being as grunty as an iMac but you can wander around with it but you still, one would think, need a way to turn it back in to an iMac when you're at your desk.

The Air, fine, it's an ultraportable. The Pro line is supposed to be the workhorses of the Mac lineup.

The Thunderbolt display is their dock. It has a built-in GBE port along with additional USB ports, a firewire 800, and a thunderbolt port. The thunderbolt port also can accommodate a 10GBE adapter. It's pretty awesome.

BullBearMS: They have all but disappeared from the marketplace.

Their share of the OS market continues to, slowly, dwindle. Now people are busy screaming about it being 85%... I remember the 90's when the same people would scream about it being a 95% share.

It's a symptom of them loosing mindshare; it used to be that you'd encounter a problem so you'd go and look for the Microsoft solution to it, buy that and implement it. Now people tend to shop around between vendors and what you buy, whilst fixing the problem and integrating with your setup, might have zero to do with MS or their offerings.

It's a problem that is slowly coming home to roost for them, if MS don't do anything about it they'll be in a lot of trouble... eventually.

fortheloveofgod: Bungles: I imagine that they're going to lie and pretend everything they release in the next ten years will have "the blessing of Steve".

This is what happens when you build a business around the apotheosis of one man's ideas.

Apple is going to plunge of a cliff in the next few years. Their entire business is based around 3 fashion products. When the fashion wind changes, they're toast


Crocs anyone?

lol. Yeah, because Apple is just some fly by night company.


The point was massive over-expansion during an income period that was way above typical.

BullBearMS: Sort of like Microsoft, with updates to Windows and Office being their major source of income for the past 20 years?

They have all but disappeared from the marketplace.

Two differences:-
1. Your PC breaks? How much would it take to convert a secretary or your mom to Linux? Quite a bit in retraining, compiling up DeCSS decryption and so forth. Try the same exercise with IOS to Android. You'll find that even if you've got a lot of apps, it won't cost you too much.
2. A lot of PCs are bought by businesses that just pay for licensing updates. They aren't going to switch to Linux and get fired if something goes wrong, they'll just pay for a Windows update.

Apple stuff just isn't "sticky" like Windows stuff is. If it goes out of fashion, they'll be dead for all but a few people who use them for video editing.

farkeruk: NeoCortex42: I figure there was probably a good 5-10 year road map in place by the time Jobs died. So they should be set with new products for the next few years. After that, they can easily coast for a few years on incremental upgrades. I'd say Apple probably won't have any major problems for close to ten years. It won't crash and burn nearly as quickly as it did last time Jobs left.

The problem for Apple is that they need to find a whole new market to enter because their products have hit a level of maturity where very few people will pay for state-of-the-art. The iPhone 5 will be better than the 4S but we're not going to see things like adding GPS and 3G, more like slightly thinner or slightly faster browsing.

That incremental bump is the thing holding me back from getting the iPhone 5 until I hear more about it. Why would I go LTE when I would lose my unlimited "4g," why would I go gaga over a 10mp cellphone camera when I have a 8mp in the 4s. I only went from 4 to 4s mainly because of the camera. They'll have to wow me and I don't know what fancy things you can do anymore unless lens tech gets better... I guess.

Vaneshi: So yeah, plenty of places Apple could go, will it remain this multi-billion dollar company though? Probably not.

Apple will always be some kind of multi-billion dollar company. Their lowest gross revenue ever is $1.7 billion back in 1986. In the last 20 years, their worst revenue was $5.4 billion in 2001.

In terms of valuation, during Apple's near-death experience of the 1990s their market cap never got below $1.6 billion.

BullBearMS: 0Icky0: One that can do everything an iPad can do.

The Nexus 7 is a really nice bit of hardware (especially for the price), but it only has a tiny fraction of the number of apps designed for iPad.

Sadly, a large portion of the apps you will find running on the Nexus 7 are nothing more than scaled up smartphone apps.

Perhaps having a good number of devices out there will finally draw in more developers to produce apps specifically designed for the amount of screen real estate available. Let's not pretend it's anywhere close right now though.

Basically yeah, I used to have an Android phone and one of the things that delighted me when I switched to iPhone is that all the apps that were on my iPod (which I lost), I could use again! If I went Android tablet, I would go with Nexus 7, but it wouldn't be for apps or any sort of ability to do everything an iPad does. I think having a decent size, affordable tablet for fondling the internet with my fingers would be the main reason.

Elvis_Bogart: (SHRUG) I just bought a Nexus 7. Pretty sweet. If the mini iPad is better, I'll sell the Nexus and get it...but the Nexus is kicking ass so far.

Love my Nexus. Would love it more with built in contract-free 4G.

/no wifi here

BullBearMS: Sort of like Microsoft, with updates to Windows and Office being their major source of income for the past 20 years?

They have all but disappeared from the marketplace.

My sarcasm detector is slightly broken, so I'm not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic.