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(Talking Points Memo)   Congress wants to know how Mitt Romney accrued a 100 million dollar IRA when the limit for them is $6000 a year. May subpoena his tax returns for the last 16,666 years   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 413
    More: Interesting, IRAs, Mitt Romney, Sander Levin, restrictions, Chris Van Hollen, subpoenas, Ways and Means Committee  
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9292 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Aug 2012 at 7:31 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-04 07:41:49 PM  

FlashHarry: clearly he's been retroactively contributing to his IRA for 16,666 years.

next question!


That's gotta throw those Tea Partiers for a loop. How can Mitt have contributed funds for 16,667 years when everyone knows the world has been around for a few thousand.

/OMG TEH CONSPIRACIES?!?ELEVENTY!!!!!1111
 
2012-08-04 07:41:52 PM  

LordJiro: See, if Mitt had released his tax returns early, there might have been momentary outrage at whatever is in it, but he could've swept it under the rug before November.

Now, people smell blood in the water.


Not if he got amnesty for hiding illegal Swiss bank accounts in 2009. He would be pretty sure of losing I think and not able to sweep it under the rug.

Why does he not show 2009? He knew he was running for president so why is his 2009 taxes being kept secret? UNLESS he was forced to take amnesty because he figured the IRS might find out about his secret accounts and he would go to jail.

It all fits.
 
2012-08-04 07:42:04 PM  

GAT_00: NFA: I'll tell you how he did it. He used his business to deposit funds into a company managed retirement fund, then he rolled it over into a Roth IRA. BOOM, no taxes on $100,000,000.00 of retirement income.

Business owners and executives do this all the time.

Is that legal?


Yes, because f*ck poor people.
 
2012-08-04 07:43:42 PM  
Do it dems, the right pull bullcrap inquiries all the time but this is a legit issue.
 
2012-08-04 07:45:16 PM  
Since 16,666 years is longer than the Earth has existed, even Republicans should think this looks fishy.
 
2012-08-04 07:45:41 PM  

NFA: I'll tell you how he did it. He used his business to deposit funds into a company managed retirement fund, then he rolled it over into a Roth IRA. BOOM, no taxes on $100,000,000.00 of retirement income.

Business owners and executives do this all the time.


Interesting. I've done this a couple times, though not at those dizzying levels. For me it makes more sense to max out my 401(k) contributions than put cash into my IRA. Well...ideally I'd be better of doing both, but there's only so much money.
 
2012-08-04 07:46:20 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, but would this work?

Step 1: Set up company started with 1000 shares with fair market value of $6000 each.
Step 2: Have your IRA buy 1 share, you own other 999
Step 3: Do a share buy back of all shares outside the IRA
Step 4: Ta-Da! The one share in the IRA is now worth $6 million.


That's a lot more complicated then what they mostly likely did.

Step 1: Bain own all XYZ
Step 2: Bain prices it at $.10 but it's worth $10 but it's privates so no one can buy it.
Step 3: Deposit "$6000" of this stock in your IRA.
Step 4: Now when it goes on sale to the public the price is $10
Step 5: Ta-Da you have 600,000 in your IRA overnight. You just made 10,000% "profit".
 
2012-08-04 07:50:52 PM  
I guess I thought up to now that the $100million IRA was speculation. I didn't realize that he actually DID have a $100million IRA.

That's an accomplishment you can only achieve by bending ethics and pulling economic strings in a way that is absolutely impossible to all but the 1%.

Your choice for President, Republicans: Daddy Thurston Warbucks McDuck.
 
2012-08-04 07:52:53 PM  
How'd he do that? is a legitimate question to ask. At the very least, there's a loophole that should absolutely be closed. Tax-deferred retirement vehicles were never intended to be used to shelter this much income.
 
2012-08-04 07:53:17 PM  
nobody really cares how about how he did it or whether it was legal

they just want to force him to release tax returns

or failing that, waste time wriggling and trying to defend his position

and all the time reinforcing the message that Rmoney is sly and devious

I'm just waiting to hear "I'm not a crook!" again
 
2012-08-04 07:57:02 PM  
I fully expect his answer to be along the lines of "because fark you, that's why."

And he'll still come within 6% of the presidency.
 
2012-08-04 07:58:52 PM  
I'm glad the GOP nominated Romney at a time when their #1 issue is that the rich pay too much in taxes.
 
2012-08-04 07:58:57 PM  

Skleenar: I guess I thought up to now that the $100million IRA was speculation. I didn't realize that he actually DID have a $100million IRA.

That's an accomplishment you can only achieve by bending ethics and pulling economic strings in a way that is absolutely impossible to all but the 1%.

Your choice for President, Republicans: Daddy Thurston Warbucks McDuck.


He also passed 100 Million to his kids without paying any taxes on the transaction, probably using the same trick.
 
2012-08-04 07:59:00 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: I fully expect his answer to be along the lines of "because fark you, that's why."

And he'll still come within 6% of the presidency nationwide popular vote.


Farking electoral college, how does it work?


/although that still would not reflect very well upon our once-great nation
 
2012-08-04 07:59:01 PM  
I suffer from arterial pulmonary hyperinflation.
 
2012-08-04 07:59:36 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: I'm glad the GOP nominated Romney at a time when their #1 issue is that the rich pay too much in taxes.


Too be fair that's always the Republicans #1 issue.
 
2012-08-04 08:00:49 PM  

cman: I am not an economist.



You should have started, and ended, with this.
 
2012-08-04 08:01:22 PM  
i249.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-04 08:01:50 PM  
Romney has stolen more money than the bottom 50% of the country combined will ever see in their lifetimes
 
2012-08-04 08:04:25 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: I'm glad the GOP nominated Romney at a time when their #1 issue is that the rich pay too much in taxes.


it literally does not matter that Romney dodged paying taxes on a couple hundred million bucks. the Republicans will stare you right in the eye and say that he STILL paid too much in taxes and that we should feel bad that he had to go to such lengths just to salvage what he could with that IRA tax shelter trick.

Now, you and I know how insane statements like that are. we might quibble on how much is too much when it comes to taxes...but you, me and everyone else who has to live in the real world knows that if the 1% dodge their taxes then we've got a very serious problem with the tax system. But to the GOP, they believe it's immoral for the rich to pay ANY taxes. And rank and file GOP voters who make less than $50k a year and who shoulder the bulk of the tax burden in this country will go to the mat to defend Romney's 'right' to pay zero in taxes and ship their jobs overseas.

it's nuts but there it is.
 
2012-08-04 08:07:02 PM  

King Something: NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: I fully expect his answer to be along the lines of "because fark you, that's why."

And he'll still come within 6% of the presidency nationwide popular vote.

Farking electoral college, how does it work?


/although that still would not reflect very well upon our once-great nation


How does the electoral college work? I'm not going to say its aliens, but.....

/you know what I meant.
 
2012-08-04 08:08:01 PM  
Step 1: Place thousands of stock certificates into duffel bags.
Step 2: Attach blank price tags the the duffel bags.
Step 3: Write 1¢ on the price tags.
Step 4: Have your self directed IRA buy these duffel bags for your retirement savings.
Step 5: Profit!
 
2012-08-04 08:08:10 PM  
I suspect the only real scandal is that congress doesn't understand the loophole strewn rule book that people have been FARKING COMPLAINING ABOUT these last few decades.
 
2012-08-04 08:10:47 PM  

Coelacanth: [i249.photobucket.com image 850x601]


Germany, Luxemburg, and Australia are not known for low tax rates. Not all of those accounts are tax shelters. Most likely, those three are holding assets in those countries due to them being invested in projects
 
2012-08-04 08:10:59 PM  
If he's been illegally not paying taxes when he should have been, then he will be indicted, arrested, tried, jailed, etc. Right?

Geither? Geithner?

If he's done nothing illegal, then I guess he won't be arrested and all that. I'll wait and see what happens.
 
2012-08-04 08:11:17 PM  

Coelacanth: [i249.photobucket.com image 850x601]


Nothing says taxes are too damn high in America when the rich need to do this to keep their businesses afloat.
 
2012-08-04 08:12:08 PM  

Free_Chilly_Willy: Coelacanth: [i249.photobucket.com image 850x601]

Nothing says taxes are too damn high in America when the rich need to do this to keep their businesses afloat.


And here it is, right on schedule.
 
2012-08-04 08:13:03 PM  

way south: I suspect the only real scandal is that congress doesn't understand the loophole strewn rule book that people have been FARKING COMPLAINING ABOUT these last few decades.


They totally understand it, most of them use it I suspect. And that's why it'll never, ever, change.
 
2012-08-04 08:13:12 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: I fully expect his answer to be along the lines of "because fark you, that's why."

And he'll still come within 6% of the presidency.


i232.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-04 08:13:13 PM  

MikeMc: Congress wants to know how Mitt Romney accrued a 100 million dollar IRA when the limit for them is $6000 a year.

[memecrunch.com image 553x484]


Ha! I just shot beer out of my nose. YOU, sir, win that thing created by aliens that allows me to type this. What an appropriately placed meme!
 
2012-08-04 08:13:34 PM  

NFA: I'll tell you how he did it. He used his business to deposit funds into a company managed retirement fund, then he rolled it over into a Roth IRA. BOOM, no taxes on $100,000,000.00 of retirement income.

Business owners and executives do this all the time.


I thought it was because he dumped a bunch of massively under-valued stock into it. Then when the actual stock price is realized *BOOM* millions of $$$.
 
2012-08-04 08:14:12 PM  

Greil: way south: I suspect the only real scandal is that congress doesn't understand the loophole strewn rule book that people have been FARKING COMPLAINING ABOUT these last few decades.

They totally understand it, most of them use it I suspect. And that's why it'll never, ever, change.


it still blows my mind that members of Congress can legally make money off insider trading.
 
2012-08-04 08:15:01 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: I'm glad the GOP nominated Romney at a time when their #1 issue is that the rich pay too much in taxes.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-04 08:21:28 PM  

cman: GAT_00: cman: I still think there is a good chance of hyper-inflation in the near future.

Why? The yen isn't the most powerful currency in the world. Neither is the Euro. Neither is the yuan. Currencies don't suffer hyperinflation just because they aren't super powerful.

This is just my personal opinion. I am not an economist.

I think that there is going to be an economic depression very soon. The numbers and stats show that the recession is over, but in all reality, everyone knows the economy sucks. This could just be a matter of people having a negative perception about the economy, and perception is reality. Or, what I think, is that these jumps in stats are only temp. I dont complain about CEO pay; in fact, I usually avoid those threads. But considering that their compensation was raised 26% with job losses and stagnant wages lead me to believe that our economic indicators are a bit farked up.


The next depression will be caused by the same thing that caused the last one - too much money in too few hands, going nowhere. In the late eighties, at an economic think tank, Bush Sr. said: "I want to see this country's wealth in fewer, righter, tighter hands".
They said they would do it, and they did it - and now a dwindling number of fools are trying to rationalize that the vanishing of the Amereican middle class has something to do with "liberals".
Psychosis level self-deception coupled with intense self loathing is now required for any person who makes less than a million a year to be a "conservative".
 
2012-08-04 08:21:48 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Romney has stolen more money than the bottom 50% of the country combined will ever see in their lifetimes


And no one on "his team" gives a shiat.
 
2012-08-04 08:21:54 PM  
biased reporting again.

The IRA is valued at UP TO $100M. Could be as low as $20M.

As to how to get $20M, that is really easy. Have your yearly contributions done in stock of start ups or turn arounds. The fair market value of a start-up could be .01 cent. If the start up hits, then voila you have a huge gain and a big IRA balance.

I bet Larry and Sergei have similar sized IRAs if not bigger.

Now, you still have to pay taxes when you withdraw the money, so who cares?
 
2012-08-04 08:24:12 PM  

Free_Chilly_Willy: Coelacanth: [i249.photobucket.com image 850x601]

Nothing says taxes are too damn high in America when the rich need to do this to keep their businesses afloat.


Yeah, they NEED to do it. They aren't doing it purely out of greed...No, the 1% (PBUT) MUST hide their money overseas because it'd RUIN THEM to pay America back for the help they've received over the years.

Oh wait, the Republican line is "Every single rich person is rich because of Boostraps, and to even imply that they had ANY help from the government makes you Karl Marx reincarnated."
 
2012-08-04 08:24:23 PM  

NFA: I'll tell you how he did it. He used his business to deposit funds into a company managed retirement fund, then he rolled it over into a Roth IRA. BOOM, no taxes on $100,000,000.00 of retirement income.

Business owners and executives do this all the time.


If they did that all the time, they would be in jail.

Do you not know anything about IRAs or are you just pretending you don't?
 
2012-08-04 08:25:19 PM  
One possible scenario from wikipedia: "in rare cases, individuals own IRAs with very substantial balances, in some cases $100 million or above (about 5,000 times the median individual balance).[18] This typically occurs when founders of companies place shares in their own company in an IRA, and the share value subsequently rises substantially.[18]"

I'm pretty sure the IRS knows how IRA's work.
 
2012-08-04 08:25:56 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Do it dems, the right pull bullcrap inquiries all the time but this is a legit issue.


You know they won't do a damn thing, the Democrats let Bush run over them and then they let the GOP minority in Congress run over them during Obama's presidency.
 
2012-08-04 08:26:06 PM  
The sign of a well-run campaign could have been Romney's handling of this whole issue. He could have been upfront about it. He could have released his tax forms and then answered the questions. Sure, he would have taken a lot of heat, but at least he could have shown people humility, grace, regret, and the signs of being HUMAN to counter all of those sad responses he gave when he was dealing with the rest of the Republican Retard Squad during the primaries. In fact, he could have been brutally honest about it and found some way to change it into a lesser negative.

Instead, we get a very clear view on Romney. He's unable to identify with anybody that he doesn't pay. He's unable to deal with any sort of personal attack. He's not that bright and incapable of discussing anything, preferring to hint at future plans ala McCain that will only work if we take a gamble on him (showing a true lack of foresight). And when he is threatened, he withdraws, and chooses to release information to appease everybody instead of being honest. Long story short: he's simply not capable of running any sort of organization as a leader. So everything he has done to this point has been because of his social position at a time in this country's history where the Rich are going to be held under intense scrutiny because of their actions.

Romney has shown he is unable to do anything and is stymied by mere questions into his past. This isn't someone who should be in the running for president, much less anything else.
 
2012-08-04 08:27:20 PM  

fusillade762: NFA: I'll tell you how he did it. He used his business to deposit funds into a company managed retirement fund, then he rolled it over into a Roth IRA. BOOM, no taxes on $100,000,000.00 of retirement income.

Business owners and executives do this all the time.

I thought it was because he dumped a bunch of massively under-valued stock into it. Then when the actual stock price is realized *BOOM* millions of $$$.


which of course is something anyone can do.

step 1. fill your IRA with some penny stocks,
step 2. work really hard to make those stocks worth something,
step 3. profit.

(step 2 is hard)

of course, you still will have to pay taxes and since capital gains rates are going up, this may not be a great thing to do.
 
2012-08-04 08:29:27 PM  
why blame Romney.

The size of his IRA (UP TO $100M, not $100M) ? He didn't built that. The government did.
 
2012-08-04 08:29:56 PM  

Guntram Shatterhand: The sign of a well-run campaign could have been Romney's handling of this whole issue. He could have been upfront about it. He could have released his tax forms and then answered the questions. Sure, he would have taken a lot of heat, but at least he could have shown people humility, grace, regret, and the signs of being HUMAN to counter all of those sad responses he gave when he was dealing with the rest of the Republican Retard Squad during the primaries. In fact, he could have been brutally honest about it and found some way to change it into a lesser negative.

Instead, we get a very clear view on Romney. He's unable to identify with anybody that he doesn't pay. He's unable to deal with any sort of personal attack. He's not that bright and incapable of discussing anything, preferring to hint at future plans ala McCain that will only work if we take a gamble on him (showing a true lack of foresight). And when he is threatened, he withdraws, and chooses to release information to appease everybody instead of being honest. Long story short: he's simply not capable of running any sort of organization as a leader. So everything he has done to this point has been because of his social position at a time in this country's history where the Rich are going to be held under intense scrutiny because of their actions.

Romney has shown he is unable to do anything and is stymied by mere questions into his past. This isn't someone who should be in the running for president, much less anything else.


I would find it utterly hilarious if late Obama campaign ads were nothing but clips from Romney's campaign.

"Mitt Romney: He's no leader"
 
2012-08-04 08:30:00 PM  

shotglasss: If he's been illegally not paying taxes when he should have been, then he will be indicted, arrested, tried, jailed, etc. Right?

Geither? Geithner?

If he's done nothing illegal, then I guess he won't be arrested and all that. I'll wait and see what happens.


Because the only thing to consider when choosing a presidential candidate is "Has he committed any crimes?" There are no other relevant factors.
 
2012-08-04 08:33:38 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: fusillade762: NFA: I'll tell you how he did it. He used his business to deposit funds into a company managed retirement fund, then he rolled it over into a Roth IRA. BOOM, no taxes on $100,000,000.00 of retirement income.

Business owners and executives do this all the time.

I thought it was because he dumped a bunch of massively under-valued stock into it. Then when the actual stock price is realized *BOOM* millions of $$$.

which of course is something anyone can do.

step 1. fill your IRA with some penny stocks,
step 2. work really hard to make those stocks worth something,
step 3. profit.

(step 2 is hard)

of course, you still will have to pay taxes and since capital gains rates are going up, this may not be a great thing to do.


yeah, but that's not what Romney did. he filled his IRA with stocks, undervalued 'em and THEN reaped the rewards when they achieved full value. Or so goes the speculation anyways. nobody's really sure how Romney managed to break the bank on his IRA account because he won't release his tax returns.

or to put it another way, Romney sure is acting guilty about something.
 
2012-08-04 08:34:08 PM  

cman: Coelacanth: [i249.photobucket.com image 850x601]

Germany, Luxemburg, and Australia are not known for low tax rates. Not all of those accounts are tax shelters. Most likely, those three are holding assets in those countries due to them being invested in projects


Be that as it may, the point of that pic is that Romney is avoiding (or perhaps "evading") US federal income tax by putting his money n foreign banks rather than American banks.

Chances are, you paid more in sales tax the last time you ate at a fast food place than Romney paid in income taxes over the past 10 years. There's a damn good chance that I paid more, and I paid a staggering TWELVE CENTS in sales tax the last time I ate at a fast food place.
 
2012-08-04 08:34:29 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: biased reporting again.

The IRA is valued at UP TO $100M. Could be as low as $20M.

As to how to get $20M, that is really easy. Have your yearly contributions done in stock of start ups or turn arounds. The fair market value of a start-up could be .01 cent. If the start up hits, then voila you have a huge gain and a big IRA balance.

I bet Larry and Sergei have similar sized IRAs if not bigger.

Now, you still have to pay taxes when you withdraw the money, so who cares?


His spokesman has said that it was a 100m a few months ago, complaining about it being a unsound place to keep so much money due to tax laws
 
2012-08-04 08:36:29 PM  
Business ethics?
www.socialtechpop.com
 
2012-08-04 08:36:52 PM  

Corvus: Step 1: Bain own all XYZ
Step 2: Bain prices it at $.10 but it's worth $10 but it's privates so no one can buy it.
Step 3: Deposit "$6000" of this stock in your IRA.
Step 4: Now when it goes on sale to the public the price is $10
Step 5: Ta-Da you have 600,000 in your IRA overnight. You just made 10,000% "profit".


That's the explanation all the investigative reporters who have looked at it have come up with. It makes sense and it goes along with Bain Capital's other practices.
 
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