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(BBC)   UN to send strongly worded letter to itself   ( bbc.co.uk) divider line
    More: Weird, U.N. Security Council, Free Syrian Army, General Assembly, proxy wars, Kofi Annan, Bashar, Secretary-General of the United Nations, United Nations General Assembly  
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6693 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Aug 2012 at 11:03 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-03 10:38:00 PM  
Yeah. But Putin looks at Syria and sees a sea port that he has unfettered access to. And sees the thousands of people protesting him and wonders if he'll have to do the same thing soon.

China looks at Syria and knows they've done that before, and wonders if they'll have to do it again soon.
 
2012-08-03 11:06:32 PM  
i1.ytimg.com
 
2012-08-03 11:08:34 PM  
..and Russia has already condemned the UN for.. condemning itself.

BTW, the 12 nays were Russia, China, Syria, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Belarus, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Burma, Zimbabwe and Venezuela
 
2012-08-03 11:09:01 PM  
Dear Us,

You Suck!

Sincerely,
We
 
2012-08-03 11:10:13 PM  
Did they need to UN-Nazi the world forever again?
 
2012-08-03 11:12:23 PM  
Oh UN-sane bunch of guys.
 
2012-08-03 11:13:46 PM  

The Bestest: ..and Russia has already condemned the UN for.. condemning itself.

BTW, the 12 nays were Russia, China, Syria, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Belarus, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Burma, Zimbabwe and Venezuela


So all of the sane countries?
 
2012-08-03 11:14:46 PM  
Personally, I know there are more than a few Syrians I would really love to invade, so here's hoping that president Nobama wisens up and does the right thing.
 
2012-08-03 11:15:37 PM  
Oh my, looks like it's Uniting-For-Peace o'clock. This should end well.
 
2012-08-03 11:17:35 PM  

whatshisname: The Bestest: ..and Russia has already condemned the UN for.. condemning itself.

BTW, the 12 nays were Russia, China, Syria, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Belarus, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Burma, Zimbabwe and Venezuela

So all of the sane countries?


The Best and Brightest of the UN.
 
2012-08-03 11:20:24 PM  

MrHappyRotter: more than a few Syrians I would really love to invade


Are you going to post pics or am I going to have to google image search them myself?
 
2012-08-03 11:21:08 PM  
Looks like they weren't in any mood for any of their own shenanigans.
 
2012-08-03 11:22:01 PM  
Damn you, U.N.
You actually made me wonder if John Bolton might have been right about something.

And I'm pretty sure "Belarus" isn't a country, but a monster Godzilla fought.
 
2012-08-03 11:34:20 PM  

Ryker's Peninsula: Damn you, U.N.
You actually made me wonder if John Bolton might have been right about something.

And I'm pretty sure "Belarus" isn't a country, but a monster Godzilla fought.


Ahahaha. Good show, good show, old chap.
 
2012-08-03 11:36:21 PM  

Asa Phelps: But Putin looks at Syria and sees a sea port that he has unfettered access to


Huh? Unless Georgia, Armenia, and Turkey just let Russians plod through, how exactly does Putin have "unfettered access" to Syria?
 
2012-08-03 11:46:45 PM  

phalamir: Asa Phelps: But Putin looks at Syria and sees a sea port that he has unfettered access to

Huh? Unless Georgia, Armenia, and Turkey just let Russians plod through, how exactly does Putin have "unfettered access" to Syria?


Hell, Turkey could just wake up one day and go "Pool's Closed" on the Bosphorus, significantly cutting off Russia's Mediterranean naval presence.
 
2012-08-03 11:53:15 PM  
I spoke to a Russian embassy staff member yesterday, and he told me the Syrian military is so concerned about civilian injuries, that they are now using guns that shoot Kinder eggs filled with the laughter of small happy children.
 
2012-08-03 11:54:56 PM  
Or maybe it was white phosphorus and sarin. Whatever.
 
2012-08-03 11:55:03 PM  
So if Russia, US and China meddle in affairs militarily using the UN as a guise, thats bad. But if they dont, thats bad.

Little countries are so amusing.
 
2012-08-03 11:58:21 PM  
Syria has been secular for too long, apparently. Would a fundamentalist state satisfy the U.N.?
 
2012-08-03 11:58:43 PM  
This would be a great time to send over some American evangelists to sort them out! The evangelists is to whom I refer..
 
2012-08-04 12:00:07 AM  

Arkanaut: whatshisname: The Bestest: ..and Russia has already condemned the UN for.. condemning itself.

BTW, the 12 nays were Russia, China, Syria, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Belarus, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Burma, Zimbabwe and Venezuela

So all of the sane countries?

The Best and Brightest of the UN.


Yeah, Belarus: so bright and sane they lost their shiat when someone dropped teddy bears on them.
 
2012-08-04 12:06:59 AM  
If only the UN could have its own police force, with a different security council
 
2012-08-04 12:07:44 AM  
It could be worse. Key Bank demanded $4 if I wanted to take out $20 today.
 
2012-08-04 12:10:37 AM  
There are two competing political theories here. First is the traditional theory of unfettered sovereignty and non-interference in internal matters, that the Russians and Chinese are primarily advocating. Since the Syrian government is not waging war outside its borders and has not asked for international assistance, it follows that other nations should respect its sovereignty and leave it alone to do what it wants within its own borders.

There is another competing theory, of "humanitarian intervention." Basically, sovereignty is still a strong concept and countries should leave other countries alone, except when a nation is committing genocide or otherwise brutally suppressing civilians, even if it is entirely within their own borders. At that time, it is the obligation of the international community to protect civilians, by calling for negotiations, cease-fires, peacekeepers, or in the extreme, arming rebels (indirect military intervention) or even directly intervening, as happened most recently in Libya.

Obviously, regimes that are not too kind to their own people do not like this new theory, and the Russians and Chinese in particular are weary of having to eventually deal with their own restive populace and do not want to be hampered in anyway should the governing regime have to brutally suppress demonstrators. They are further irked by what they saw as being duped by the West, when they voted in favor of a resolution protecting civilians in Libya, which they saw as being morphed by Western nations into a direct intervention and toppling of the Libyan government.

I am a believer in humanitarian intervention, but the obvious question then rises, should the US (or the international community, which is another way of saying "mostly" the US) have to deal with any and all dictators who suppress their own people? Where do you draw the line, and who bears the cost in lives and funds?
 
2012-08-04 12:12:27 AM  

ktybear: If only the UN could have its own police force, with a different security council


These things do not exist in a vacuum. Who would provide the personnel and funds for such a "police" force? What would their mandate be? Under what circumstances can they exert force? Etc.
 
2012-08-04 12:13:09 AM  
"US media say US President Barack Obama has signed a covert order authorising support for Syrian rebels."

i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-04 12:16:47 AM  
FTFA: "You cannot be a fireman and an arsonist at the same time."

Ray Bradbury would disagree.
 
2012-08-04 12:18:27 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111: I am a believer in humanitarian intervention, but the obvious question then rises, should the US (or the international community, which is another way of saying "mostly" the US) have to deal with any and all dictators who suppress their own people?


Any and all? No. Countries the US has a vested interest in or otherwise ulterior motive? You betcha!

The Syria conflict is a proxy war where the actors on one side are US allies and those on the other are enemyish. In Libya, the US had been looking for an excuse to get rid of Daffy for some time.

Some country in central Africa? The US will give the international equivalent of a consoling pat on the shoulder and a sympathy card.
 
2012-08-04 12:20:40 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111: ktybear: If only the UN could have its own police force, with a different security council

These things do not exist in a vacuum. Who would provide the personnel and funds for such a "police" force? What would their mandate be? Under what circumstances can they exert force? Etc.


i.imgur.com
Don't worry about the bodies, we'll handle the cleanup.
 
2012-08-04 12:20:41 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111: ktybear: If only the UN could have its own police force, with a different security council

These things do not exist in a vacuum. Who would provide the personnel and funds for such a "police" force? What would their mandate be? Under what circumstances can they exert force? Etc.


I realise because of the way the world is now, what I ask for is a near impossibility. However, as the world changes and things become more 'difficult' over the next century, I can see how the UN could develop, given the necessary desire for humanitarian existence.

Put it this way, this week the middle east reached 53C, both the NW and NE passages will be open at roughly the same time and lots of shipping can now avoid the middle east for much longer periods of time, and save themselves money. The Scandinavian countries are putting a lot of money and effort into building nearer the arctic circle ( and for good reason ). European debt is out of control, whether by design or not is irrelevant, and will change that part of the world forever. Islands are disappearing and new areas are opening up.

I need a good 'soon' pic don't I...
 
2012-08-04 12:21:52 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111: I am a believer in humanitarian intervention, but the obvious question then rises, should the US (or the international community, which is another way of saying "mostly" the US) have to deal with any and all dictators who suppress their own people? Where do you draw the line, and who bears the cost in lives and funds?


Having a bright-line policy has a couple of different problems.

(1) If the US has problems that make intervention untenable, it would have to get involved anyway if the bright-line is passed, or basically end the bright-line by inaction
(2) If a regime sits there right under the bright-line, you are left sitting there doing nothing - and if you do, you destroy the bright-line
(3) a sorta-well-lit-line also might make assholes second guess themselves. Will this act get me shiat-canned? Is it worth it?

It is admittedly less knowable than a bright-line scenario, but the vagueness allows for more flexibility. There is such a thing as relying too much on the flow chart. Leadership and maturity is the measured weighing of factors to reach the best (or at least, least bad) result. Think of it as mandatory minimum criminal sentencing; you take all the judgment out of the process and have to go where the check-box forces you, regardless of sensibleness.
 
2012-08-04 12:24:58 AM  
also, haven't found the full list yet, but among the 31 that abstained: Angola, Brazil, Lebanon, India, Pakistan
 
2012-08-04 12:43:13 AM  

Chair5768: ExcaliburPrime111: ktybear: If only the UN could have its own police force, with a different security council

These things do not exist in a vacuum. Who would provide the personnel and funds for such a "police" force? What would their mandate be? Under what circumstances can they exert force? Etc.

[i.imgur.com image 700x525]
Don't worry about the bodies, we'll handle the cleanup.


I loved that game and was hoping someone would bring up that picture.
 
2012-08-04 12:59:12 AM  
WW3

/the stupidity of despots
 
2012-08-04 12:59:59 AM  

ktybear: ExcaliburPrime111: ktybear: If only the UN could have its own police force, with a different security council

These things do not exist in a vacuum. Who would provide the personnel and funds for such a "police" force? What would their mandate be? Under what circumstances can they exert force? Etc.

I realise because of the way the world is now, what I ask for is a near impossibility. However, as the world changes and things become more 'difficult' over the next century, I can see how the UN could develop, given the necessary desire for humanitarian existence.

Put it this way, this week the middle east reached 53C, both the NW and NE passages will be open at roughly the same time and lots of shipping can now avoid the middle east for much longer periods of time, and save themselves money. The Scandinavian countries are putting a lot of money and effort into building nearer the arctic circle ( and for good reason ). European debt is out of control, whether by design or not is irrelevant, and will change that part of the world forever. Islands are disappearing and new areas are opening up.

I need a good 'soon' pic don't I...


When building something here in Norway, it`s kinda hard to avoid building near the artic circle, considering almost half of the country is above it...
 
2012-08-04 01:50:31 AM  
Thank God! The UN has saved us all!
 
2012-08-04 01:56:30 AM  
Damnit, us! Why didn't you warn us that we're gonna do this?!
 
2012-08-04 02:41:25 AM  
The Cold War never really ended for Russia. For cosmos' sake, their nuclear arsenal is still actually hooked up to a faulty 'dead man switch', and pointed this way.

When the phrases 'Russia' and 'Proxy wars' start getting thrown together like this, you know the old war dogs of the Cold War are stirring up shiat, and we are about to be up to our necks in it. Just in time for them to die, and leave us all holding the bag of heads.

No good can come from this antiquated pissing contest.
 
2012-08-04 03:45:42 AM  

The Bestest: Hell, Turkey could just wake up one day and go "Pool's Closed" on the Bosphorus, significantly cutting off Russia's Mediterranean naval presence.


We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

/Been a long time gone, Constantinople
 
2012-08-04 03:49:11 AM  
So, Friday is when the UN is the Gang that Can't Shoot Straight? On what days of the week is the UN the Evul New World Order George Soros Conspiracy?
 
2012-08-04 03:51:55 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111: I am a believer in humanitarian intervention, but the obvious question then rises, should the US (or the international community, which is another way of saying "mostly" the US) have to deal with any and all dictators who suppress their own people? Where do you draw the line, and who bears the cost in lives and funds?


War is a horror, but sometimes war can be the horrible ending to be preferred over the horrors without end. The relevant questions are:

1) Are there horrors without end?
2) Can means short of war end them?
3) Is war likely to end them?

If the answers are yes, no and yes, you have a casus belli.
 
2012-08-04 03:53:05 AM  

ktybear: Put it this way, this week the middle east reached 53C, both the NW and NE passages will be open at roughly the same time and lots of shipping can now avoid the middle east for much longer periods of time, and save themselves money. The Scandinavian countries are putting a lot of money and effort into building nearer the arctic circle ( and for good reason ). European debt is out of control, whether by design or not is irrelevant, and will change that part of the world forever. Islands are disappearing and new areas are opening up.


But...but...but....

AAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL GOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRE!
 
2012-08-04 04:03:54 AM  
Bastions of liberty and freedom Saudi Arabia and Qatar are supplying weapons to the rebels with the US facilitating and coordinating. Turkey, again with US support, has set up a base for anti-Assad rebels and is helping with weapons supply to the rebels. Meanwhile the various rebel groups have a habit of using car bombs and suicide bombs, things we normally call terrorist tactics, but that's OK because they're the good guys. Oh, they also have a nasty habit of torturing and executing their prisoners (and then putting it on the Web), but again, it's OK because they are the good guys. Speaking of torture, 'bad guy' Assad tortures prisoners too, but back in the day that was OK because we turned people over to him for interrogation so we could keep our hands clean. Al Qaeda and other fundamentalist groups are active in the opposition, but, do I have to say it again, that's OK because the opposition is the good guys. We know Syria is evil and that Assad is bad because Western news agencies and governments have been breathlessly passing along all those atrocity reports from the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a one man operation operated by a single guy working out of his London apartment.

The people who believe this is a good vs bad struggle or about democracy or freedom have to be some of the most naive people on the planet.
 
2012-08-04 04:23:52 AM  

qualtrough: Bastions of liberty and freedom Saudi Arabia and Qatar are supplying weapons to the rebels with the US facilitating and coordinating. Turkey, again with US support, has set up a base for anti-Assad rebels and is helping with weapons supply to the rebels. Meanwhile the various rebel groups have a habit of using car bombs and suicide bombs, things we normally call terrorist tactics, but that's OK because they're the good guys. Oh, they also have a nasty habit of torturing and executing their prisoners (and then putting it on the Web), but again, it's OK because they are the good guys. Speaking of torture, 'bad guy' Assad tortures prisoners too, but back in the day that was OK because we turned people over to him for interrogation so we could keep our hands clean. Al Qaeda and other fundamentalist groups are active in the opposition, but, do I have to say it again, that's OK because the opposition is the good guys. We know Syria is evil and that Assad is bad because Western news agencies and governments have been breathlessly passing along all those atrocity reports from the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a one man operation operated by a single guy working out of his London apartment.

The people who believe this is a good vs bad struggle or about democracy or freedom have to be some of the most naive people on the planet.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE

 
2012-08-04 04:36:13 AM  
"The UN General Assembly has voted by a big majority to condemn its own Security Council for failing to end the unrest in Syria as fighting rages"

Which suggests that they think their own council can do something effective, HAH!
 
2012-08-04 04:56:40 AM  
Well it's still not close to the farce known as the UN's Human Rights Council.
 
2012-08-04 04:58:43 AM  

ExcaliburPrime111: I am a believer in humanitarian intervention, but the obvious question then rises, should the US (or the international community, which is another way of saying "mostly" the US) have to deal with any and all dictators who suppress their own people? Where do you draw the line, and who bears the cost in lives and funds?


Even if you believe in humanitarian intervention, there is nothing wrong with drawing the line at the boundary of pragmatism -- i.e. resolving to intervene when it is in your power to achieve a worthwhile outcome.

It seems to be part of the American and English national character that the pragmatic option is not obvious to us. It is to everyone else. We require an absolute principle to serve, regardless of the cost, and if we don't stick to it we're sell-outs no matter what we accomplish. Remember how during the 2003 Iraq war opponents of the invasion were pointing out our appeasement of North Korea as though it self-evidently invalidated our actions against Iraq's regime. America and England are places where you can be a bad man for giving a candy to a child -- because to be good you must either bring enough for all the children or give none at all. America was evil to many Western commentators because we helped the Croats but not the Tutsis.

That said I'm not in favor of humanitarian intervention, mainly because it's so difficult to say in advance whether it will result in enough of an improvement in conditions to justify the cost, especially to the people who live in the place you intend to shoot up for their benefit.
 
2012-08-04 05:35:19 AM  

mordi: ktybear: ExcaliburPrime111: ktybear: If only the UN could have its own police force, with a different security council

These things do not exist in a vacuum. Who would provide the personnel and funds for such a "police" force? What would their mandate be? Under what circumstances can they exert force? Etc.

I realise because of the way the world is now, what I ask for is a near impossibility. However, as the world changes and things become more 'difficult' over the next century, I can see how the UN could develop, given the necessary desire for humanitarian existence.

Put it this way, this week the middle east reached 53C, both the NW and NE passages will be open at roughly the same time and lots of shipping can now avoid the middle east for much longer periods of time, and save themselves money. The Scandinavian countries are putting a lot of money and effort into building nearer the arctic circle ( and for good reason ). European debt is out of control, whether by design or not is irrelevant, and will change that part of the world forever. Islands are disappearing and new areas are opening up.

I need a good 'soon' pic don't I...

When building something here in Norway, it`s kinda hard to avoid building near the artic circle, considering almost half of the country is above it...


Well true, but you know what I mean..I hope...things are changing and overall a lot of the planet ( after awhile ) is going to be OK maybe even better for people. I'm hoping a few generations from now will be seeing a very different world, in more ways than one. Gotta get our shiate together.
 
2012-08-04 05:41:44 AM  

Lord Jubjub: WW3

/the stupidity of despots


judging by the detractors, sounds more like CC#WTFK

/capital conflict # who the fark knows
//push comes to show, Russia's not in it for keeps
 
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