Would any of us really care if it weren't for the oil?

Or, you could ask how bad the situation really is if you're forced to look for shelter in Syria?

bingethinker: I'm surprised Syria let any Palestinians in. I thought it was the policy of surrounding Arab countries to keep the Palestinians stranded where they are as a political pawn in their quest to wipe Israel off the map.

Sad but true.

I'd definitely convert to some religion if said religions god showed up and just smited the hell out of the entire middle east as a whole and left nothing standing. Get an end to THAT particular brand of DerpBullShait.

Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?


Oman.

They just need to lower a gigantic Russ Cargill'esque perspex dome over the entire region and just let nature take it's course.

SultanofSchwing: They just need to lower a gigantic Russ Cargill'esque perspex dome over the entire region and just let nature take it's course.

Somebody needs to get all Kickstarter on this and the sooner the better.

Blues Lounger: Would any of us really care if it weren't for the oil?

I don't even care that much.

RevCarter: Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?


Oman.


The Emirates are pretty low key, but they might be buying up a bunch of arms. If they are, they're probably having all the weapons stocks replaced with teak and powder coating all the tanks.

Obama should peace prize the shiat out of them until they settle down.

Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?


I think Israel meets all of those conditions.

SultanofSchwing: They just need to lower a gigantic Russ Cargill'esque perspex dome over the entire region and just let nature take it's course.

A thousand eyes. Trapped forever.

Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?

Funny. They call the USA the 'Great Satan' but actually kill off more of their own people by their own hands than the US ever did.

The human mind has an infinite capacity for self-delusion. Nothing makes this as crystal clear as watching a Palestinian man slip and fall right in front of you, then stand up and demand that someone call the police to report that a Jew beat him up and threw him to the ground.

/it got especially lulzy when he tried to get random strangers to lie to the cops in support of his story
//apparently that works a lot better in Gaza than it does on a college campus

Tatterdemalian: Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?

Funny. They call the USA the 'Great Satan' but actually kill off more of their own people by their own hands than the US ever did.

The human mind has an infinite capacity for self-delusion. Nothing makes this as crystal clear as watching a Palestinian man slip and fall right in front of you, then stand up and demand that someone call the police to report that a Jew beat him up and threw him to the ground.

/it got especially lulzy when he tried to get random strangers to lie to the cops in support of his story
//apparently that works a lot better in Gaza than it does on a college campus

it is amazing what you can believe, once you have made the leap to believe in a god.

Tatterdemalian: Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?

Funny. They call the USA the 'Great Satan' but actually kill off more of their own people by their own hands than the US ever did.

The human mind has an infinite capacity for self-delusion. Nothing makes this as crystal clear as watching a Palestinian man slip and fall right in front of you, then stand up and demand that someone call the police to report that a Jew beat him up and threw him to the ground.

/it got especially lulzy when he tried to get random strangers to lie to the cops in support of his story
//apparently that works a lot better in Gaza than it does on a college campus

lolz

...

wait, you mean this actually happened????

frepnog: it is amazing what you can believe, once you have made the leap to believe in a god.

You don't even have to believe in a god, your brain will trick you into believing all kinds of lies, grand and petty. That's why we've developed so many scientific processes to carefully screen out human beliefs that would bias our experiments before we can be certain of any natural laws.

/also why those FARK headline research projects really are important
//"Duh! I could have saved them a ton of research money by telling them that!"
///but you couldn't have proven it

Smoking GNU: wait, you mean this actually happened????

Yeah, but it's an anecdote, so you don't have to believe me if you don't want to.

/would much rather live in a country where people are free to believe what they want, than one where everyone believes every word I say
//would be nice to keep it that way, but it's looking less likely with each new protest

The Bestest: Hey, chillax everyone, the UN's got this. Why, just today they voted to send a strongly worded letter to... itself.

And Yet they're somehow competent enough to take all of the USes private weapons away. Is the UN the Quantum Organization?

Smoking GNU: And Yet they're somehow competent enough to take all of the USes private weapons away. Is the UN the Quantum Organization?

I keep telling people that's what the UN is and then they start paying attention to the UN and it isn't anymore.

bingethinker: I'm surprised Syria let any Palestinians in. I thought it was the policy of surrounding Arab countries to keep the Palestinians stranded where they are as a political pawn in their quest to tell their oppressed populations about how they'll wipe Israel off the map.

FTFY.

If they actually wipe Israel off the map, they won't have anything else to distract their people from their incompetence and corruption.

/And actually this only applies to Syria now since Jordan and Egypt have been at peace with Israel for decades at this point. The tactic does also apply to Iran but they don't have any Palestinian refugees.

RevCarter: Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?


Oman.


Amen.

Captain_Ballbeard: Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?


I think Israel meets all of those conditions.

you would be wrong.

Those Iranian scientists didn't blow themselves up. The Israelis are in several covert wars all the time. They aren't stock piling Russian weapons but they sure as shiat are stocking US weapons.

Add to that Bahrain where we (the US) are selling weapons to dictators to kill their citizens. So it is all a bunch of BS anyway. And if Assad was on our anti ai queda team we would be given him weapons as well. in fact Obama has authorized assistance to the Rebels who are apparently associated with Al Queda.

Egypt - we armed them
Bahrain - arming them
UAE - arming them
Iraq- arming them
Saudis - armed them
Qutar - arming them

The Russians wish they could do the kind of business we do

Smoking GNU: I'd definitely convert to some religion if said religions god showed up and just smited the hell out of the entire middle east as a whole and left nothing standing. Get an end to THAT particular brand of DerpBullShait.

You would like a god to show up to impose his/her will which involves destroying the Middle East because you don't have the balls to admit that deep down, your opinion is genocide?

/I don't really disagree

Lordserb: bingethinker: I'm surprised Syria let any Palestinians in. I thought it was the policy of surrounding Arab countries to keep the Palestinians stranded where they are as a political pawn in their quest to wipe Israel off the map.

Sad but true.

Jordan took in the Palestinians long ago and ended up bombing the hell out of them in September of 1970 (Black September). They seem to get bombed and kicked out of every country that takes them in.

bingethinker: I'm surprised Syria let any Palestinians in. I thought it was the policy of surrounding Arab countries to keep the Palestinians stranded where they are as a political pawn in their quest to wipe Israel off the map.

Or just as political pawns in general:
Pro-Asad Palestinian group fires on Palestinian protestors in refugee camp (pops)

Leave it to the Palestinians to take a bad situation and make it worse for themselves.

smitty04: Lordserb: bingethinker: I'm surprised Syria let any Palestinians in. I thought it was the policy of surrounding Arab countries to keep the Palestinians stranded where they are as a political pawn in their quest to wipe Israel off the map.

Sad but true.

Jordan took in the Palestinians long ago and ended up bombing the hell out of them in September of 1970 (Black September). They seem to get bombed and kicked out of every country that takes them in.


Yet only Israel gets shait for it.

Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?

Funny. They call the USA the 'Great Satan' but actually kill off more of their own people by their own hands than the US ever did.

All carefully manipulated by the US, Russia, and China. It's much better to have them killing eachother with our weapons then to have them united and killing us infidels.

The ease with which they are manipulated into killing themselves instead of us is quite laughable.

Step 1: The US or Russia/China prop up murderous dictator and supply with weapons.
Step 2. The other side foments unrest, props up rebels/dissidents, and supplies with weapons.
Step 3. Stand back and watch fireworks.
Step 4: Pass UN resolution denouncing violence. Al with a wink wink, nod nod behind the scenes.

It's all rather nice and tidy for us. They kill eachother and we take their oil and fund our industrial and military complex which in turn provides them with more weapons so they can keep killing eachother and we can keep taking their oil.

smitty04: Lordserb: bingethinker: I'm surprised Syria let any Palestinians in. I thought it was the policy of surrounding Arab countries to keep the Palestinians stranded where they are as a political pawn in their quest to wipe Israel off the map.

Sad but true.

Jordan took in the Palestinians long ago and ended up bombing the hell out of them in September of 1970 (Black September). They seem to get bombed and kicked out of every country that takes them in.

If only there were a certain group of people they could relate to??? Hmmmm...Nope I'm drawing a blank. No other group of people have been kicked out of their homeland and spent decades being kicked out of and persecuted everywhere else they tried to live.

Rik01: Funny. They call the USA the 'Great Satan' but actually kill off more of their own people by their own hands than the US ever did.

Who do you mean by "they?" Can you be specific?

crispyone: Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?

Funny. They call the USA the 'Great Satan' but actually kill off more of their own people by their own hands than the US ever did.

All carefully manipulated by the US, Russia, and China. It's much better to have them killing eachother with our weapons then to have them united and killing us infidels.

The ease with which they are manipulated into killing themselves instead of us is quite laughable.

Step 1: The US or Russia/China prop up murderous dictator and supply with weapons.
Step 2. The other side foments unrest, props up rebels/dissidents, and supplies with weapons.
Step 3. Stand back and watch fireworks.
Step 4: Pass UN resolution denouncing violence. Al with a wink wink, nod nod behind the scenes.

It's all rather nice and tidy for us. They kill eachother and we take their oil and fund our industrial and military complex which in turn provides them with more weapons so they can keep killing eachother and we can keep taking their oil.

You left out the part about the Jewish bankers being behind it all. Or was I supposed to infer that?

kindms: Captain_Ballbeard: Rik01: Is there any middle-eastern nation that is NOT in a war, rebellion, coup, Jihad or stocking up on Russian military supplies?


I think Israel meets all of those conditions.

you would be wrong.

Those Iranian scientists didn't blow themselves up. The Israelis are in several covert wars all the time. They aren't stock piling Russian weapons but they sure as shiat are stocking US weapons.

Add to that Bahrain where we (the US) are selling weapons to dictators to kill their citizens. So it is all a bunch of BS anyway. And if Assad was on our anti ai queda team we would be given him weapons as well. in fact Obama has authorized assistance to the Rebels who are apparently associated with Al Queda.

Egypt - we armed them
Bahrain - arming them
UAE - arming them
Iraq- arming them
Saudis - armed them
Qutar - arming them

The Russians wish they could do the kind of business we do

If the Russians did not sell so much cr@p they might. Look at the combat record of Russian Equipment vs Western. MIG 21 vs F-4s and Mirages, MIG-29s vs F-16s and F-15s. T-62 vs M-60 and Centurions, T-72s vs M1 and Challengers.

Granted a lot can be attributed to training and tactics but fact is if it were not for the low price almost nobody would be buying their stuff. For example the jet engines a MIG 29 only last about 10,000 hrs between overhauls half of an F-16and the MIG 29 airframes is expected to last only about half as long

bingethinker: I'm surprised Syria let any Palestinians in. I thought it was the policy of surrounding Arab countries to keep the Palestinians stranded where they are as a political pawn in their quest to wipe Israel off the map.

They get in anyway. They're very much treated as second class citizens, though, so they will continue to fight Israel.

Arkanaut: If they actually wipe Israel off the map, they won't have anything else to distract their people from their incompetence and corruption.

Agreed. Iran might actually like to succeed, the rest of them just want the war to continue.

/And actually this only applies to Syria now since Jordan and Egypt have been at peace with Israel for decades at this point. The tactic does also apply to Iran but they don't have any Palestinian refugees.

Egypt is growing increasingly hostile these days.

Loren: bingethinker: I'm surprised Syria let any Palestinians in. I thought it was the policy of surrounding Arab countries to keep the Palestinians stranded where they are as a political pawn in their quest to wipe Israel off the map.

They get in anyway. They're very much treated as second class citizens, though, so they will continue to fight Israel.

Arkanaut: If they actually wipe Israel off the map, they won't have anything else to distract their people from their incompetence and corruption.

Agreed. Iran might actually like to succeed, the rest of them just want the war to continue.

/And actually this only applies to Syria now since Jordan and Egypt have been at peace with Israel for decades at this point. The tactic does also apply to Iran but they don't have any Palestinian refugees.

Egypt is growing increasingly hostile these days.

Ahmedinejad might be that stupid, but he doesn't get to push the button. The ayatollahs control the military there, and they know how to play the game.

Similarly, the military is very powerful in Egypt, and they don't like Morsi. He's not going to be able to do anything without their backing.

hasty ambush: Granted a lot can be attributed to training and tactics but fact is if it were not for the low price almost nobody would be buying their stuff. For example the jet engines a MIG 29 only last about 10,000 hrs between overhauls half of an F-16and the MIG 29 airframes is expected to last only about half as long

You have your stats way off. Our oldest clapped out F-16s are retired at about 7000 hours.

Below is the Luftwaffe's esperience with the MiG-29, after 12 years of service. Syrians can expect the 350 hour figure, even if they're babied.

"By making modifications to the turbine section to reduce operating temperatures in peacetime (equates to reduced thrust for the pilots) the Luftwaffe hoped to extend the life of the engines, reduce their support costs, as well as increase the overhaul interval from their original 350 hour prediction to 700-750 hours, depending on engine age. This innovation did not address combat demands upon the engine. Consequently, one may infer that a combat engine setting will be incorporated in the engine modification kit to facilitate higher performance under wartime conditions. For peacetime training, this lower thrust setting was be used, but it still gave the Fulcrum respectable performance."

from http://www.sci.fi/~fta/MiG-29-2b.htm

doglover: [Ha ha]

Dude......

I mean, I realize you're probably not actually glad for it happening, and are just going for morbid humor after the fact, but still...

/I know, I know, "welcometofark.jpg"

"Jordan took in the Palestinians long ago and ended up bombing the hell out of them in September of 1970 (Black September)."

Yeah well, they tried to overthrow the jordanian government. They got what they deserved.

They also got tunisia bombed, because arafat fled there at one point.

The arab world isn't that fond of palestinians because they stir up shiat wherever they go.

Meh. The whole Middle East is just one big shell game.

voristrupp: The arab world isn't that fond of palestinians because they stir up shiat wherever they go.

The Palestinians blame the Arab world for failing to kill all the Jews in Israel and give their stuff to them, like they promised in 1948. Even worse is the resentment they feel toward the Israeli Arabs who didn't run off to join the Naqba, and ended up not only keeping their property, but enjoying more freedom than Arabs in pretty much any of the surrounding territory, especially Syria.

/the biggest complaint from Israeli Arabs is that they no longer enjoy the privileges of "first class citizenship" they had when the Ottomans ruled
//somehow I really can't sympathize with their longing for the days when they could own Christian and Jewish slaves

Tatterdemalian: voristrupp: The arab world isn't that fond of palestinians because they stir up shiat wherever they go.

The Palestinians blame the Arab world for failing to kill all the Jews in Israel and give their stuff to them, like they promised in 1948. Even worse is the resentment they feel toward the Israeli Arabs who didn't run off to join the Naqba, and ended up not only keeping their property, but enjoying more freedom than Arabs in pretty much any of the surrounding territory, especially Syria.

I'd be the first to criticize the PLO, Hamas, and the support they're policies have had from most Palestinians, and I don't doubt that many Palestinians feel in one or more respects as you describe, but I think you're painting with an over-broad brush... As with any people, Palestinians don't think with one shared mind.

Tatterdemalian: /the biggest complaint from Israeli Arabs is that they no longer enjoy the privileges of "first class citizenship" they had when the Ottomans ruled
//somehow I really can't sympathize with their longing for the days when they could own Christian and Jewish slaves

I doubt that's today's average Israeli Arab's biggest complaint. Let's not go overboard...

Isildur: they're policies

*their

/me fail English

Isildur: As with any people, Palestinians don't think with one shared mind.

Nazi Europe was composed of many individuals who didn't think with shared mind. Didn't stop them from willingly committing genocide, and they would have completed it if not for the violent intervention of outside forces.

The same thing goes on among the Palestinians, where the only thing binding people from dozens of different nations and cultures are their shared hatred of Israel. They won't ever give up on the hate, because their entire made-up nation would immediately shatter into factional warfare without it.

/no, it can't be made into a unified nation, no matter what promises they make
//not without finding someone to hate, and blame for the failure of religious belief to work better than technological progress

Dinodork: hasty ambush: Granted a lot can be attributed to training and tactics but fact is if it were not for the low price almost nobody would be buying their stuff. For example the jet engines a MIG 29 only last about 10,000 hrs between overhauls half of an F-16and the MIG 29 airframes is expected to last only about half as long

You have your stats way off. Our oldest clapped out F-16s are retired at about 7000 hours.

Below is the Luftwaffe's esperience with the MiG-29, after 12 years of service. Syrians can expect the 350 hour figure, even if they're babied.

"By making modifications to the turbine section to reduce operating temperatures in peacetime (equates to reduced thrust for the pilots) the Luftwaffe hoped to extend the life of the engines, reduce their support costs, as well as increase the overhaul interval from their original 350 hour prediction to 700-750 hours, depending on engine age. This innovation did not address combat demands upon the engine. Consequently, one may infer that a combat engine setting will be incorporated in the engine modification kit to facilitate higher performance under wartime conditions. For peacetime training, this lower thrust setting was be used, but it still gave the Fulcrum respectable performance."

from http://www.sci.fi/~fta/MiG-29-2b.htm


Granted I got my number so , everything by a factor of ten but premise still holds true:

The AL-31s[used in SU-30s] are developing problems before they hit 700 hours of use, instead of their expected overhaul point of 1,000 hours. Ten years ago, India had similar problems with Russian MiG-29s, where half the engines were developing problems before they had been used 150 hours, and over 26 percent of the engines were will operating when they reached their expected 300 hour overhaul points. Western military engines typically operate for 1000-1500 hours before needed an overhaul.


The MIG-29 Airframe is expected to last about 2,500 hours although Russia says they can upgrade to last 4,000. The average on the F-16 is over 5000 and there is/was a planned SLEP to bring that up to 10,000.