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(Daily Kos)   CNN reporter confirms on-air that Mitt Romney paid NO taxes for the past decade   (dailykos.com) divider line 597
    More: Interesting, Mitt Romney, Dana Bash, CNN, Health Care, International, CNN Capitol Hill, CNN AC360, Swiss bank accounts, romney  
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8860 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Aug 2012 at 9:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-03 06:35:59 AM
No sales tax, property tax, or thumb tacks?

/nice one, mittens
 
2012-08-03 06:55:49 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: No sales tax, property tax, or thumb tacks?

/nice one, mittens


What are you, 12?
 
2012-08-03 07:00:53 AM

DjangoStonereaver: FlyingLizardOfDoom: No sales tax, property tax, or thumb tacks?

/nice one, mittens

What are you, 12?


Nope, just dumber than a box of nails.
 
2012-08-03 07:08:05 AM

GAT_00: DjangoStonereaver: FlyingLizardOfDoom: No sales tax, property tax, or thumb tacks?

/nice one, mittens

What are you, 12?

Nope, just dumber than a box of nails.


"Appears to be" dumber than a box of nails, you mean.
 
2012-08-03 07:08:59 AM

DjangoStonereaver: FlyingLizardOfDoom: No sales tax, property tax, or thumb tacks?

/nice one, mittens

What are you, 12?


Wait, you mean he didnt pay taxes, or he didnt pay "taxes".

/there is a difference.
 
2012-08-03 07:11:51 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: DjangoStonereaver: FlyingLizardOfDoom: No sales tax, property tax, or thumb tacks?

/nice one, mittens

What are you, 12?

Wait, you mean he didnt pay taxes, or he didnt pay "taxes".

/there is a difference.


I'd attach a headslap GIF here, but I think your sloping brow would make such corrective action
ineffective.
 
2012-08-03 07:20:16 AM
Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.
 
2012-08-03 07:29:40 AM

FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


State and local. state and local!!!!
 
2012-08-03 07:30:08 AM

FishStampede:
We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


INCOME and PAYROLL. Two taxes to talk about. Mitt says he was unemployed, so didn't contribute to medicare or SS. If he was making lots of money as an unemployed dude, well, that just means you're in the wrong racket.

Still, I'd prefer to see something better than "my anonymous source confirms Reid's anonymous source's argument" articles. I also expect Mitt's tax to be low, but likely not zero. I could see him raking in money and finding a method to get around 5%, I could also see him using the 2009 amnesty as well. The amnesty would be really embarrassing for a presidential candidate and I think likely worse than any period of really low taxes (not that super-low tax rates paid would look good).
 
2012-08-03 07:43:43 AM
If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone
 
2012-08-03 07:49:50 AM

cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?


he only released 2010, and that was incomplete. i'm guessing they're referring to the decade prior to that.

though romney's been running since 2006, so i find this story highly dubious. even mittens isn't that dumb.
 
2012-08-03 07:51:30 AM

FlashHarry: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

he only released 2010, and that was incomplete. i'm guessing they're referring to the decade prior to that.

though romney's been running since 2006, so i find this story highly dubious. even mittens isn't that dumb.


2010 tax was complete. The 2011 taxes weren't.
 
2012-08-03 07:51:43 AM
Since this is CNN reporting, it could be the exact opposite for all we know.
 
2012-08-03 07:56:09 AM

dr_blasto: FishStampede:
We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.

INCOME and PAYROLL. Two taxes to talk about. Mitt says he was unemployed, so didn't contribute to medicare or SS. If he was making lots of money as an unemployed dude, well, that just means you're in the wrong racket.

Still, I'd prefer to see something better than "my anonymous source confirms Reid's anonymous source's argument" articles. I also expect Mitt's tax to be low, but likely not zero. I could see him raking in money and finding a method to get around 5%, I could also see him using the 2009 amnesty as well. The amnesty would be really embarrassing for a presidential candidate and I think likely worse than any period of really low taxes (not that super-low tax rates paid would look good).


Oh yeah, no doubt something shiatty is in his taxes and he really has a good reason not to want anyone to see it. I just think we shouldn't use arguments that could easily be turned around to raise taxes on the bottom half of the country.

I also think it's not far fetched that this could sink his campaign before it even gets out of the dock. I don't think they'll do a brokered convention, the GOP establishment is losing control but they haven't lost it yet and still are pretty canny. Instead, what I see happening (if he doesn't just crawl his way to November) is we'll start seeing a narrative of his wife's battle with MS becoming more prominent, then following the convention he will drop out to deal with her health issues and his VP will take over (with another VP already lined up). If the MS narrative starts coming up more often, and he chooses a charismatic dark horse VP like one of his former opponents from the primary, bet money he'll drop out before November.
 
2012-08-03 08:04:44 AM

dr_blasto: 2010 tax was complete. The 2011 taxes weren't.


my mistake.

still, whether this charge is true or not (and i find it hard to believe), romney is definitely hiding something. he's obviously calculated that the heat he gets from not releasing his taxes is better than the heat he'd get from releasing them.
 
2012-08-03 08:07:34 AM

dr_blasto: 2010 tax was complete. The 2011 taxes weren't.


actually, according to this, his 2010 return is not complete, including documentation of his swiss accounts.
 
2012-08-03 08:11:39 AM

FishStampede:
Oh yeah, no doubt something shiatty is in his taxes and he really has a good reason not to want anyone to see it. I just think we shouldn't use arguments that could easily be turned around to raise taxes on the bottom half of the country.

I also think it's not far fetched that this could sink his campaign before it even gets out of the dock. I don't think they'll do a brokered convention, the GOP establishment is losing control but they haven't lost it yet and still are pretty canny. Instead, what I see happening (if he doesn't just crawl his way to November) is we'll start seeing a narrative of his wife's battle with MS becoming more prominent, then following the convention he will drop out to deal with her health issues and his VP will take over (with another VP already lined up). If the MS narrative starts coming up more often, and he chooses a charismatic dark horse VP like one of his former opponents from the primary, bet money he'll drop out before November.


I'm pretty sure nobody likes Romney's chances in this election. His taxes will make it even harder for a guy like him to connect and it is clear he's not a personable candidate in the first place. I would put the chances of him dropping out to near zero. He's running on piles of cash and ego, not policy, not charisma and not actual support. Those two things he has have taken him to the convention as the presumptive nominee. If he comes out of the convention as the nominee, he's in till election day.
 
2012-08-03 08:40:04 AM

cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone


Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.
 
2012-08-03 08:46:10 AM
Do people who read Daily Kos really call themselves Kossacks? Is this true or just some stupid little bit of silliness this one blogger uses?
 
2012-08-03 08:52:32 AM

dr_blasto: 2010 tax was complete. T


ManateeGag: Since this is CNN reporting, it could be the exact opposite for all we know.


Um, it's CNN, not Fox. CNN may be incompetent, but they aren't the liars of Fox.
 
2012-08-03 09:03:14 AM

FlashHarry: dr_blasto: 2010 tax was complete. The 2011 taxes weren't.

actually, according to this, his 2010 return is not complete, including documentation of his swiss accounts.


LOL. I guess his statements saying he's fulfilled the obligation to release current taxes is just about as accurate as every other statement he's made.
 
2012-08-03 09:04:33 AM

Pocket Ninja: Do people who read Daily Kos really call themselves Kossacks? Is this true or just some stupid little bit of silliness this one blogger uses?


I think they do. Pretty sure it's tongue in cheek given all the attacks of being Communists, but since I am not a member of Kos or a regular reader, I'm not certain.
 
2012-08-03 09:05:14 AM

Pocket Ninja: Do people who read Daily Kos really call themselves Kossacks? Is this true or just some stupid little bit of silliness this one blogger uses?


They should start calling themselves Kos-Players
 
2012-08-03 09:07:12 AM

Dinki: dr_blasto: 2010 tax was complete. T

ManateeGag: Since this is CNN reporting, it could be the exact opposite for all we know.

Um, it's CNN, not Fox. CNN may be incompetent, but they aren't the liars of Fox.


True, but everyone knows that when CNN reports something you need to doublecheck that they haven't hosed it again. I'll give them the credit that they're not necessarily intentionally bullshiatting like FOX does.
 
2012-08-03 09:16:13 AM

GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.


Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns
 
2012-08-03 09:31:02 AM

cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns


If its a bluff, its a good one.
 
2012-08-03 09:35:33 AM

cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns


It's exactly what it is, and Reid doesn't have the legal authority to release the returns. Romney does. He refused to release them, this is what you get.
 
2012-08-03 09:39:23 AM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns

It's exactly what it is, and Reid doesn't have the legal authority to release the returns. Romney does. He refused to release them, this is what you get.


Romney should release them no doubt. That is the standard set by our Presidential candidates dating back for a long time. I dont know about privacy laws concerning tax returns, but is it really ethical for someone to expose another person like this?
 
2012-08-03 09:45:47 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: No sales tax, property tax, or thumb tacks?

/nice one, mittens


That's funny, coming from the same people who have been accusing 50% of Americans of paying no taxes.
 
2012-08-03 09:46:27 AM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns

It's exactly what it is, and Reid doesn't have the legal authority to release the returns. Romney does. He refused to release them, this is what you get.


Reid doesn't know or care anything about Romney's tax returns. His only motivation is to keep this issue in the news cycle so that Romney keeps getting asked about it.

I think he is guessing Mitt is hiding something, but he doesn't know what. As long as Reid is right, this strategy will work no matter what it is he is hiding. Mitt is stuck either continuing to dodge the press and look shady, or come clean.
 
2012-08-03 09:47:06 AM

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns

It's exactly what it is, and Reid doesn't have the legal authority to release the returns. Romney does. He refused to release them, this is what you get.

Romney should release them no doubt. That is the standard set by our Presidential candidates dating back for a long time. I dont know about privacy laws concerning tax returns, but is it really ethical for someone to expose another person like this?


He's a Presidential candidate. Tax returns are unacceptable, but bashing Michele Obama 24/7 is fine? And there is no way Reid can legally release Romney's tax returns.
 
2012-08-03 09:50:45 AM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns

It's exactly what it is, and Reid doesn't have the legal authority to release the returns. Romney does. He refused to release them, this is what you get.

Romney should release them no doubt. That is the standard set by our Presidential candidates dating back for a long time. I dont know about privacy laws concerning tax returns, but is it really ethical for someone to expose another person like this?

He's a Presidential candidate. Tax returns are unacceptable, but bashing Michele Obama 24/7 is fine? And there is no way Reid can legally release Romney's tax returns.


Did I say anything remotely like that (First lady bashing v taxes)?

You are right, he cannot release the tax returns. That covers paper form, but he can orally report that Romney paid no taxes? That seems like a big giant privacy loophole
 
2012-08-03 09:54:29 AM

cman: You are right, he cannot release the tax returns. That covers paper form, but he can orally report that Romney paid no taxes? That seems like a big giant privacy loophole


If he was actually using his authority as a senator somehow to access those records directly, yes, I am pretty sure that would be a felony. But that didn't happen.

He is simply repeating what he claims a former colleague of Romney told him.
 
2012-08-03 09:56:05 AM

gilgigamesh: cman: You are right, he cannot release the tax returns. That covers paper form, but he can orally report that Romney paid no taxes? That seems like a big giant privacy loophole

If he was actually using his authority as a senator somehow to access those records directly, yes, I am pretty sure that would be a felony. But that didn't happen.

He is simply repeating what he claims a former colleague of Romney told him.


Ah, thank you for the clarification. You are correct.
 
2012-08-03 09:56:16 AM
Whoa. Instagreen?

*Runs away*
 
2012-08-03 09:58:03 AM
Democrats are finally learning to play the game. Good luck republicans. Imagine smart people using your tricks. You're boned.
 
2012-08-03 09:58:46 AM
No, all Bash did was find the same source Reid did.
 
2012-08-03 10:01:08 AM
I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.
 
2012-08-03 10:01:10 AM

Dinki: dr_blasto: 2010 tax was complete. T

ManateeGag: Since this is CNN reporting, it could be the exact opposite for all we know.

Um, it's CNN, not Fox. CNN may be incompetent, but they aren't the liars of Fox.


They just get all their stories from the liars of Fox.
 
2012-08-03 10:01:40 AM
OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.
 
2012-08-03 10:02:04 AM

Imperialism: No, all Bash did was find the same source Reid did.


Without naming the source, she didn't confirm shiat.
 
2012-08-03 10:02:15 AM

FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


Yes, Mitt Romney making millions and paying no income tax is exactly the same as people working minimum wage jobs and paying no income tax.
 
2012-08-03 10:03:10 AM

Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.


This is CNN we're talking about. I wouldn't exactly call them news any more.
 
2012-08-03 10:03:51 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: Imperialism: No, all Bash did was find the same source Reid did.

Without naming the source, she didn't confirm shiat.


I'm sure Romney will be releasing his returns soon to clear this whole thing up. He's nothing if not open and honest.
 
2012-08-03 10:04:31 AM

sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.


I'm starting to think it's a deliberate attempt to shift the Overton window and set a ridiculously low bar for whoever grabs the nomination in 2016. "It's not Romney! WHOOOO!"
 
2012-08-03 10:05:25 AM

dr_blasto: Still, I'd prefer to see something better than "my anonymous source confirms Reid's anonymous source's argument" articles.


Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

Fark, I hate modern tv journalism. At least when you read shiat like this on a blog, you know it's sketchy. The tv reporters still pretend to do the news.
 
2012-08-03 10:05:46 AM

Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.


It's a nice trap. Romney can let the lie (if it is a lie) about him paying no taxes run rampant, OR he can release the tax returns. And he's made it clear that there's SOMETHING damaging in those returns...so either way, he's farked.
 
2012-08-03 10:06:13 AM

sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.


We had that guy already.
i.qkme.me
He was a demigod tier irl troll.
 
2012-08-03 10:06:27 AM

Corvus: And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.


I was under the impression that he didn't so much say it was untrue as say "I paid exactly what I was supposed to pay!"
 
2012-08-03 10:06:30 AM

imontheinternet: dr_blasto: Still, I'd prefer to see something better than "my anonymous source confirms Reid's anonymous source's argument" articles.

Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

Fark, I hate modern tv journalism. At least when you read shiat like this on a blog, you know it's sketchy. The tv reporters still pretend to do the news.


You're right. Watergate was a NON STORY. Nixon was farking ROBBED.
 
2012-08-03 10:07:13 AM
This is looking worse and worse for Romney. He's obviously hiding something, and Obama is going to rake him over the coals for it. He's probably holding out till the RNC, so that they are stuck with him as the candidate no matter what his taxes say.
 
2012-08-03 10:07:17 AM
Wow, this just gets better and better. The convention is going to be a hoot.
 
2012-08-03 10:07:30 AM

cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone


It's subby who says "the past decade", not Reid or Kos.

And he has not released two years of tax returns. Less than one, in fact.
 
2012-08-03 10:07:47 AM
Their source for this story? David Axelrod.

I mean, come on. How else to get someone to release their tax returns knowing there has got to be something damaging in there? Start a story about how they didn't even pay taxes.
 
2012-08-03 10:07:48 AM

FlashHarry: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

he only released 2010, and that was incomplete. i'm guessing they're referring to the decade prior to that.

though romney's been running since 2006, so i find this story highly dubious. even mittens isn't that dumb.


He's certainly not that dumb, but he's damn well that entitled. When you have a guy his age who's never failed to get his way on anything in his entire life, the mindset can certainly take hold that he doesn't have to answer to anyone. In this case of the taxes, 'anyone' is the press, voters, members of his own party, etc.

In fact, whether or not there's anything of note in his taxes is beside the point. Assuming there is nothing out of the ordinary, the fact he's letting this blow up into a bigger issue by the day and doing nothing about it shows his mindset. "Fark the little people, I don't need to answer to them even if it screws my chances of winning."

Personally I don't think his taxes will reveal anything of note. And when this whole thing started I rolled my eyes at it. But now? The fact he's just doubling down on not releasing them says more about him as a candidate and his judgement than whatever's in those returns.
 
2012-08-03 10:07:54 AM
As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.
 
2012-08-03 10:08:26 AM
This is the most delicious dirty pool in so many ways.

Why is Sen. Reid leaking this?
Because Sen. Reid is LDS.
Most likely Sen. Reid's source is LDS.
Gov. Romney is LDS.

So Gov. Romney gets dragged through the mud for the returns and the tight cabal that the LDS frequently operates their businesses in and Gov. Romney will have a harder time complaining that this is all anti-Mormon bigotry.
 
2012-08-03 10:08:46 AM

Epoch_Zero: sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.

We had that guy already.
[i.qkme.me image 300x222]
He was a demigod tier irl troll.


He was my favorite candidate ever.

"9-9-9! NO EXCEPTIONS!"
"Herman, do you realize that your plan would drastically increase taxes on the poor?"
"Only if they refuse to join my concentration camps!"
 
2012-08-03 10:08:50 AM

dr_blasto: Those two things he has have taken him to the convention as the presumptive nominee. If he comes out of the convention as the nominee, he's in till election day.


Oh for Christ's sake. RONPAUL is not getting the nomination.
 
2012-08-03 10:09:01 AM

LordJiro: Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

It's a nice trap. Romney can let the lie (if it is a lie) about him paying no taxes run rampant, OR he can release the tax returns. And he's made it clear that there's SOMETHING damaging in those returns...so either way, he's farked.


The 2008 McCain campaign have helped make that clear. If you look through his tax history and then say "Crap, we're going with Palin" you know there are skeletons in his closet that would make the Cryptkeeper do a double-take.
 
2012-08-03 10:10:20 AM
Link

Romney's pathetic attempt at reversal. So very pathetic.
 
2012-08-03 10:11:38 AM

imontheinternet: Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.


As we all know, responsible reporters only report what's on record. That's why we knew the identity of Deep Throat from day 1.
 
2012-08-03 10:12:36 AM

sprawl15: Corvus: And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

I was under the impression that he didn't so much say it was untrue as say "I paid exactly what I was supposed to pay!"


Someone illustrated this very nicely in another thread.

A normal person would probably say, "I didn't pay less than I was legally required to; if I had, that would be a problem."
Mitt Romney says, "I didn't pay more than I was legally required to; if I had, that would be a problem."
 
2012-08-03 10:12:38 AM

FishStampede: it's not far fetched that this could sink his campaign before it even gets out of the dock.


Which is why the Obama campaign is waiting until after the convention, when Romney goes from "presumptive nominee" to actually getting his name fixed on state ballots, to launch their sortie.

We haven't had an uncontested Presidential election since 1820. Exciting times.
 
2012-08-03 10:12:39 AM

Kome: LordJiro: Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

It's a nice trap. Romney can let the lie (if it is a lie) about him paying no taxes run rampant, OR he can release the tax returns. And he's made it clear that there's SOMETHING damaging in those returns...so either way, he's farked.

The 2008 McCain campaign have helped make that clear. If you look through his tax history and then say "Crap, we're going with Palin" you know there are skeletons in his closet that would make the Cryptkeeper do a double-take.


At this point, I wouldn't doubt if CNN's anonymous source is Steve Schmidt.
From what I've read, there was some bad blood between McCain and Romney during the 2008 primaries.
 
2012-08-03 10:12:41 AM

sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.


"What did the rich people ever build for us?"

"Roads?"

"Nope"

"Bridges"

"Nope"
 
2012-08-03 10:13:54 AM
I'm going to update what I said in the last thread.

The fact that both Harry Reid and Dana Bash (CNN congressional correspondent) cite their source about Romney's taxes as "very credible" suggests to me that the source is in John McCain's current or former staff, if not John McCain himself.

I wonder, though, if Reid's office put Dana Bash in contact with their source, which without disclosure of this by Dana Bash and/or CNN would frankly be shoddy journalism, as it's not that different from simply repeating a rumor as fact.
 
2012-08-03 10:13:59 AM

cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone


Christ dude, are you really this stupid? It's obvious that this is in reference to the tax returns he hasn't released yet, and why he hasn't.
 
2012-08-03 10:14:03 AM

Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.


Obama could release his decoded Genome and many would still call for more bullshiat releases from him.

You wanted a birth certificate, he released it. No wait, you wanted the long form? Ok, he released it. Now you want to see the microfilm?

You cant please these people
 
2012-08-03 10:14:08 AM
It's not too late, Republicans. You can still change your minds. You have 3 weeks
 
2012-08-03 10:14:11 AM

sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.


when do we get to see his penis
 
2012-08-03 10:14:56 AM

Kome: LordJiro: Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

It's a nice trap. Romney can let the lie (if it is a lie) about him paying no taxes run rampant, OR he can release the tax returns. And he's made it clear that there's SOMETHING damaging in those returns...so either way, he's farked.

The 2008 McCain campaign have helped make that clear. If you look through his tax history and then say "Crap, we're going with Palin" you know there are skeletons in his closet that would make the Cryptkeeper do a double-take.


Eh, I don't buy that explanation; there were plenty of other things about Mitt Romney that make him an unattractive VP candidate.
 
2012-08-03 10:15:24 AM
In Russia, rich peasant pays Government ruinous taxes. In America, Government pays rich peasants ruinous taxes.

Yakoff Smirnov said that.

No. He didn't.

Would you believe Yacko Warner?

How about Brantgoose.


It's funny because it's true. Mitt Romney is telling the truth when he says he didn't pay zero taxes. He paid minus taxes to the tune of millions of dollars in transfers from the government to the rich that as a politician, he suggested. Many US corporations have been "charged" with the job of collecting taxes from consumers. And to cut out the middle man, they've been allowed to keep the taxes they collect.

Do you remember from history classes you may or may not have been required to take in high school or university, the tax farmers whose depredations were among the grievances that led to the French Revolution. Well, met the new boss, same as the old boss.

Two hundred and some odd decades after the Revolution, the rich are back in the same aristocratid driving seat they were in before 1776, before 1789, before the October Revolution in November, 1917.

Ha! ha!

Sucks to be you! Oh, wait. That hurts. It makes me feel bad. This must be how all the other people feel when I mock them. Tough shiat. It still sucks to be them.
 
2012-08-03 10:15:39 AM

FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.



actually since Romney is arguing that we need to cut federal income taxes for the wealthy because those taxes are slowing down the job creators then the fact that he pays little to none is what's really important here.

the GOP really picked the wrong guy to make their latest trickle down economics BS argument.
 
2012-08-03 10:16:44 AM

dr_blasto: Dinki: dr_blasto: 2010 tax was complete. T

ManateeGag: Since this is CNN reporting, it could be the exact opposite for all we know.

Um, it's CNN, not Fox. CNN may be incompetent, but they aren't the liars of Fox.

True, but everyone knows that when CNN reports something you need to doublecheck that they haven't hosed it again. I'll give them the credit that they're not necessarily intentionally bullshiatting like FOX does.


CNN is proof positive that you should not attribute to malice what is better attributed to incompetence. They're dumb as a bag of hammers. Although I am inclined to believe Mitt Romney is shadier than a live oak, I'm going to wait until this is confirmed by an organization that isn't the international symbol for cranial-rectal inversion.
 
2012-08-03 10:17:05 AM
Did Romney get away with releasing no returns during his time as Governor? How did that happen?
 
2012-08-03 10:17:33 AM

HeartBurnKid: imontheinternet: Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

As we all know, responsible reporters only report what's on record. That's why we knew the identity of Deep Throat from day 1.


img52.imageshack.us

"Harry. These bastards need to burn for letting me fail to Konstantin Pavolvich Loshadev. I wanted to perform a croupade, but Anne told me that an Oldenburg could never manage it! My father goes unavenged. Here are the returns."
 
2012-08-03 10:17:46 AM

dr_blasto: FishStampede:
We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.

INCOME and PAYROLL. Two taxes to talk about. Mitt says he was unemployed, so didn't contribute to medicare or SS. If he was making lots of money as an unemployed dude, well, that just means you're in the wrong racket.

Still, I'd prefer to see something better than "my anonymous source confirms Reid's anonymous source's argument" articles. I also expect Mitt's tax to be low, but likely not zero. I could see him raking in money and finding a method to get around 5%, I could also see him using the 2009 amnesty as well. The amnesty would be really embarrassing for a presidential candidate and I think likely worse than any period of really low taxes (not that super-low tax rates paid would look good).



I'm willing to bet the Obama Team already knows. It's a really good strategy to let this fuse burn slowly if it is actually true. Politics in general is largely ignored during the summer months so letting the bomb go off after September would have a much larger impact.
 
2012-08-03 10:17:54 AM

SilentStrider: Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

This is CNN we're talking about. I wouldn't exactly call them news any more.


Sadly, this won't matter. Conservatives will still vote for him because their "worst guy" is better than our "best guy."

Typical "Us vs. Them" Propoganda rules the day with American Politics. When there is a viable third party representation is the only hope this bipartisan crap will come to and end. Then again, we'll probably just go full "tri-partisan." I'm trademarking that.

We're irrevocably farked, aren't we?

In the end, I'd rather be stabbed in the front by a Democrat than stabbed in the back by a Republican.

Four
more
years.
 
2012-08-03 10:18:22 AM

bootman: This is the most delicious dirty pool in so many ways.

Why is Sen. Reid leaking this?
Because Sen. Reid is LDS.
Most likely Sen. Reid's source is LDS.
Gov. Romney is LDS.

So Gov. Romney gets dragged through the mud for the returns and the tight cabal that the LDS frequently operates their businesses in and Gov. Romney will have a harder time complaining that this is all anti-Mormon bigotry.


Mormons do often hold each other to a higher standard than non-LDS folks. That is apparent by the belief that only ex-LDS members will remain in Hell ("Outer Darkness") after final judgement.
 
2012-08-03 10:18:39 AM

ariseatex: I'm going to update what I said in the last thread.

The fact that both Harry Reid and Dana Bash (CNN congressional correspondent) cite their source about Romney's taxes as "very credible" suggests to me that the source is in John McCain's current or former staff, if not John McCain himself.

I wonder, though, if Reid's office put Dana Bash in contact with their source, which without disclosure of this by Dana Bash and/or CNN would frankly be shoddy journalism, as it's not that different from simply repeating a rumor as fact.


what CNN shoddy? no

I wouldn't hang my hat on this just yet, but the fact that Romney isn't releasing them tells me that at the very least a look at his taxes would show that he's paying a very low rate and he's not really creating any jobs. The tax cuts for job creators myth is what's at stake here I think.
 
2012-08-03 10:19:19 AM
What would be hilarious is democrats in congress to put up a bill where anyone running for US president must show 10 years of tax returns AND their official birth certificate. Put republucans in a situation where they would look bad voting either way.
 
2012-08-03 10:19:59 AM

Imperialism: No, all Bash did was find the same source Reid did.


#!/dana/bash

if [ -e /reid/source ]
then
source $( find /reid/source -name '*bain*' -ctime +3560 -exec grep taxes {} \;)
fi

[ ! -z "$taxes" ] && return $taxes
 
2012-08-03 10:20:05 AM

stoli n coke: Kome: LordJiro: Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

It's a nice trap. Romney can let the lie (if it is a lie) about him paying no taxes run rampant, OR he can release the tax returns. And he's made it clear that there's SOMETHING damaging in those returns...so either way, he's farked.

The 2008 McCain campaign have helped make that clear. If you look through his tax history and then say "Crap, we're going with Palin" you know there are skeletons in his closet that would make the Cryptkeeper do a double-take.

At this point, I wouldn't doubt if CNN's anonymous source is Steve Schmidt.
From what I've read, there was some bad blood between McCain and Romney during the 2008 primaries.


I REALLY hope that's who it is. Revealing someone's confidential tax information is a crime and depending on how one came about the information, can be punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

ps. Dirty Harry himself may have violated 26 USC 6103 but I doubt anyone has the balls to pursue it.
 
2012-08-03 10:20:53 AM

ramblinwreck: bootman: This is the most delicious dirty pool in so many ways.

Why is Sen. Reid leaking this?
Because Sen. Reid is LDS.
Most likely Sen. Reid's source is LDS.
Gov. Romney is LDS.

So Gov. Romney gets dragged through the mud for the returns and the tight cabal that the LDS frequently operates their businesses in and Gov. Romney will have a harder time complaining that this is all anti-Mormon bigotry.

Mormons do often hold each other to a higher standard than non-LDS folks. That is apparent by the belief that only ex-LDS members will remain in Hell ("Outer Darkness") after final judgement.


I believe Bain then was also all Mormon.
 
2012-08-03 10:20:55 AM
"People are stupid. They will believe anything either because they want it to be true or they are afraid that it might be true."

So basically the IRS hasn't ruined Romney's life by now... because? Go on, tell us.

Romney released one year of tax returns and the results have been an unprecedented campaign of distortion and lies from liberals about it. He's going to release this years tax returns, and the results will be another campaign of distortions and lies from liberals. I'm terribly sorry if Romney isn't given you material to distort and lie about because you sure as hell can't run on Obama's record.
 
2012-08-03 10:21:15 AM

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns

It's exactly what it is, and Reid doesn't have the legal authority to release the returns. Romney does. He refused to release them, this is what you get.

Romney should release them no doubt. That is the standard set by our Presidential candidates dating back for a long time. I dont know about privacy laws concerning tax returns, but is it really ethical for someone to expose another person like this?


Because when I think 'politics', I think 'ethics'.

Are you new here or something?
 
2012-08-03 10:21:29 AM

SilentStrider: Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

This is CNN we're talking about. I wouldn't exactly call them news any more.


But but but CNN is trying so hard. Really they are. Please at least give them credit for trying. At least they are honestly trying to report news and not deliver propoganda like FOX. And I know but but but but MSNBC, well they are reporting the news they are not making up propoganda Rachel Maddow really fact checks and admits mistakes when wrong.
 
2012-08-03 10:21:38 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: Imperialism: No, all Bash did was find the same source Reid did.

Without naming the source, she didn't confirm shiat.


I seem to remember a long time ago when journalists held the public's trust even if they didn't name their sources. And sometimes we even respected them more when they chose to protect the identities of those people. Maybe the whole Valerie Plame incident put an end to that trust. Or maybe it died years before then, when ratings became more important than accurate reporting and journalistic integrity.
 
2012-08-03 10:22:01 AM
If he didn't pay more than he owed, that only means he's not a moron. Blame the unbelieveably complex tax code.
 
2012-08-03 10:22:03 AM

Oh look, a highly credible source gave me this super-secret memo:


TO: Official Obama Cheerleading Brigade
FROM: Obama For America
RE: Today's Marching Orders

This morning, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released the unemployment numbers for the month of July. While we were able to use statistical fudges to get the overal job growth number to 163,000 (a new "bikini graph" talking point update will be distributed shortly), the unemployment number rose to 8.3%. While we figure out why this was George W. Bush's fault, we need all of our loyal Cheerleaders to keep on working to distract the American people.

That means you need to milk Sen. Reid's tax accusations for a few more days until our crack Distractions Unit comes up with a new accusation against Mitt Romney. We've had one of our top CNN agents try to fan the flames for a little bit longer, but we need all of you to continually flog your approved Cheerleader Talking Points at least through the weekend.

Remember, our Cheerleading Squad is crucial to our efforts at districting the American electorate from the state of the economy so that Barack Obama can spent at least another four years in the White House. So keep up the blogging, make sure that you forward all the Daily Kos and TPM stories to your friends and posting them on Facebook, Twitter, and for the three of you on Google Plus you might as well do that too. Dear Leader President Obama is counting on your support!

P.S. While we appreciate the enthusiasm for emulating the President, we would like to remind our Cheerleaders that a "hot dog roast" should only involve processed meat products, and not real dogs.


Wait, you say, that "memo" is a total fake with no basis in reality! Well, prove that it's fake then!
 
2012-08-03 10:22:07 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: "What did the rich people ever build for us?"

"Roads?"

"Nope"

"Bridges"

"Nope"



'LEMONES HUMECT BONUS'? 'People called Lemones, they wet, the good'?
 
2012-08-03 10:22:42 AM

poot_rootbeer: Vlad_the_Inaner: "What did the rich people ever build for us?"

"Roads?"

"Nope"

"Bridges"

"Nope"


'LEMONES HUMECT BONUS'? 'People called Lemones, they wet, the good'?


bwahhahaaha
 
2012-08-03 10:23:46 AM

Corvus: What would be hilarious is democrats in congress to put up a bill where anyone running for US president must show 10 years of tax returns AND their official birth certificate. Put republucans in a situation where they would look bad voting either way.


How can it possibly look worse than to have the son of the man that initiated the tradition be the first to refuse to honor it in nearly half of a century?
 
2012-08-03 10:24:20 AM
An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.
 
2012-08-03 10:24:47 AM

Corvus: What would be hilarious is democrats in congress to put up a bill where anyone running for US president must show 10 years of tax returns AND their official birth certificate. Put republucans in a situation where they would look bad voting either way.


I like this idea.
 
2012-08-03 10:26:40 AM

unexplained bacon: FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


actually since Romney is arguing that we need to cut federal income taxes for the wealthy because those taxes are slowing down the job creators then the fact that he pays little to none is what's really important here.

the GOP really picked the wrong guy to make their latest trickle down economics BS argument.


Who were they going to pick? Sanitorium? Gingrich? Perry? Bachmann? Jeb Bush? Jindahl? Pawlenty? Cheney? RON PAUL!!!!111!!!!!
 
2012-08-03 10:26:49 AM

CPennypacker: Good luck republicans. Imagine smart people using your tricks. You're boned.


lol!
 
2012-08-03 10:27:02 AM

Corvus: What would be hilarious is democrats in congress to put up a bill where anyone running for US president must show 10 years of tax returns AND their official birth certificate. Put republucans in a situation where they would look bad voting either way.


That is an epic level of political jujitsu. Problem is it would never get out of the House. It would sail through the Senate.
 
2012-08-03 10:27:24 AM
If Romney hasn't paid income taxes in the last 10 years, why hasn't TIm Geithner had him arrested or Obama nominated him for a cabinet position?

/Reid still hasn't addressed his widely reported involvement in pedastry
 
2012-08-03 10:27:59 AM

Irving Maimway: Corvus: What would be hilarious is democrats in congress to put up a bill where anyone running for US president must show 10 years of tax returns AND their official birth certificate. Put republucans in a situation where they would look bad voting either way.

That is an epic level of political jujitsu. Problem is it would never get out of the House. It would sail through the Senate.


Nothing sails through the Senate...
 
2012-08-03 10:28:12 AM

badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.


The damage is done and people are talking about this rather than the 8.3% unemployment. But believe me, when voting time comes the unemployed won't give a crap about Reid's lies.
 
2012-08-03 10:28:29 AM

randomjsa: "People are stupid. They will believe anything either because they want it to be true or they are afraid that it might be true."

So basically the IRS hasn't ruined Romney's life by now... because? Go on, tell us.

Romney released one year of tax returns and the results have been an unprecedented campaign of distortion and lies from liberals about it. He's going to release this years tax returns, and the results will be another campaign of distortions and lies from liberals. I'm terribly sorry if Romney isn't given you material to distort and lie about because you sure as hell can't run on Obama's record.



hey, he says federal taxes are holding back jobs. I'd like to see just how incumbered by federal taxes a wealthy job creator like Romney is.

Romney and the GOP are making the argument that the wealthy need a tax cut, the least Romney could do is show us what he's paying. You and I both know if he releases them and it turns out that he's paying little to nothing in fed taxes this 'tax cuts for job creators' myth is going to take a big hit, and frankly that's been the GOP mantra for quite a while...sorta unravels the whole clothe the GOP has made.

if this bothers you you're really going to hate the next couple of months.

/it matters, get used to it.
 
2012-08-03 10:28:34 AM

Corvus: What would be hilarious is democrats in congress to put up a bill where anyone running for US president must show 10 years of tax returns AND their official birth certificate. Put republucans in a situation where they would look bad voting either way.


[nods slowly]

[then nods faster]
 
2012-08-03 10:28:45 AM

badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.


Let's assume for just a moment that he is. Where is the benefit in letting this smolder? How does this help Romney? Is he expecting some sort of sympathy bump because all of the mean old Democrats are picking on him? How does this help him?
 
2012-08-03 10:28:45 AM

cman: Romney should release them no doubt. That is the standard set by our Presidential candidates Mitt Romney's father dating back for a long time.


FTFY.

We should keep reminding ourselves -- and everybody in earshot -- that the first person to set this bar was Romney's own father.
 
2012-08-03 10:29:00 AM
It's hilarious seeing the spin coming from the "Why doesn't Obama just release it" crowd. They all claimed if he just released it they'd be satisfied and he must be hiding something awful, blah blah. Now all Romney has to do is release his documents, the same as everyone for the past 40 years has done, and he's stonewalling.
 
2012-08-03 10:29:07 AM

sprawl15: Corvus: And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

I was under the impression that he didn't so much say it was untrue as say "I paid exactly what I was supposed to pay!"


No, he said it was a lie, completely untrue then hypothesized that the information came from the White House. To me, that last bit is funny. The executive branch runs the Treasury and, of course, the Treasury knows how much Romney paid. So, if that infomation that Romney paid zero taxes came from the White House, it may well be true.
 
2012-08-03 10:29:09 AM

Kevin72: SilentStrider: Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

This is CNN we're talking about. I wouldn't exactly call them news any more.

But but but CNN is trying so hard. Really they are. Please at least give them credit for trying. At least they are honestly trying to report news and not deliver propoganda like FOX.


They aren't really trying. They repeat the talking points sent to them and whatever they get off twitter. They are incredibly lazy. This story is just as likely from @realinformantninja as from a legitimate source.
 
2012-08-03 10:29:46 AM

randomjsa: "People are stupid. They will believe anything either because they want it to be true or they are afraid that it might be true."

So basically the IRS hasn't ruined Romney's life by now... because? Go on, tell us.

Romney released one year of tax returns and the results have been an unprecedented campaign of distortion and lies from liberals about it. He's going to release this years tax returns, and the results will be another campaign of distortions and lies from liberals. I'm terribly sorry if Romney isn't given you material to distort and lie about because you sure as hell can't run on Obama's record.


Wrong. I didn't care about his 13-14% income tax in 2010. It was a little on the low side for my tastes, but I really didn't care until he flat out refused to reveal the other years. It has become standard practice for presidential candidates to release a decade's worth of tax returns, and I see no reason for him to not follow the standard practice.

If Obama refused to release his returns you know that the GOP would be spitting blood.
 
2012-08-03 10:29:51 AM
I wonder if anyone out there who wanted to be Romney's VP pick is suddenly having a change of heart.
 
2012-08-03 10:30:36 AM

Kevin72: unexplained bacon: FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


actually since Romney is arguing that we need to cut federal income taxes for the wealthy because those taxes are slowing down the job creators then the fact that he pays little to none is what's really important here.

the GOP really picked the wrong guy to make their latest trickle down economics BS argument.

Who were they going to pick? Sanitorium? Gingrich? Perry? Bachmann? Jeb Bush? Jindahl? Pawlenty? Cheney? RON PAUL!!!!111!!!!!


right...the gop is terrible
 
2012-08-03 10:30:55 AM
Wait I gotta channel my inner hysterical birther here.....

WHAR THE TAX RETURNS MITTENS!?!?!?! WHAAARRRRR!?!?!?!

there.
*Shiver*
 
2012-08-03 10:31:44 AM
No matter how much bluster or phoney umbrage the right musters, the inescapable fact is that all Romney has to do is release his tax info to make these questions go away.
 
2012-08-03 10:31:45 AM
considering romney was governor of ma., which has very liberal population, i wonder if he is holding out due to something that would antagonize the republican base. Like contributions to glaad...

Then he releases his taxes after he cinches the nom.

That would be hysterical.
 
2012-08-03 10:32:05 AM

HeartBurnKid: imontheinternet: Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

As we all know, responsible reporters only report what's on record. That's why we knew the identity of Deep Throat from day 1.


Woodward and Bernstein didn't shout from a mountaintop that Nixon ordered Watergate based on anonymous sources with no independent confirmation.
 
2012-08-03 10:32:30 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.

The damage is done and people are talking about this rather than the 8.3% unemployment. But believe me, when voting time comes the unemployed won't give a crap about Reid's lies.


but Romney says we need to cut taxes for the wealthy to make more jobs...shouldn't he be able to show us on his tax returns how fed taxes are holding him back.

unless it turns out he's paying next to nothing already...uh uh that might make his entire campaign look like it's a giant shiatstorm.
 
2012-08-03 10:32:44 AM
I don't give the Romney campaign a lot of credit, but this could be a smart ploy to undermine the democrats' tax argument if and when Romney releases his tax returns. For instance, if Romney paid very little in taxes, that will look bad for him. But if he can plant a source spreading the rumor that he paid zero taxes and if key democratic people run with this idea (and cnn keeps reporting wishy-washy articles like this one), then when he actually does release his tax returns he gets to say "see! I paid taxes just like everyone else. The democrats have been saying all along that I paid zero taxes which is clearly untrue." The fact that he paid egregiously low taxes compared to everyone else will be mitigated by the fact that the democrats were caught speculating. It wont completely cure Romney of the tax return issue but at least it wont be quite as devastating a blow to his campaign.
 
2012-08-03 10:32:54 AM

badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.


I guess it's impossible to know...
 
2012-08-03 10:33:37 AM
Politics is a blood sport. The opposition would rather put Romney in the situation where they let him die from a self inflicted death by a thousand cuts. He is the only one that can make this stop and they know it. This is why you have people on his side of the fence telling him to release the records now. Otherwise, your opponent can continue to define you. It's sort of like when people refuse to be interviewed by the media. If you don't give your side they can feel free to paint it all from the other side. Not nice, not pretty, reality.
 
2012-08-03 10:33:49 AM

Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.


Funny that Mitt Romney is going to release LESS information about himself (tax returns, birth certificates) than Obama.
 
2012-08-03 10:34:07 AM

what_now: dr_blasto: Those two things he has have taken him to the convention as the presumptive nominee. If he comes out of the convention as the nominee, he's in till election day.

Oh for Christ's sake. RONPAUL is not getting the nomination.


What?

I only responded to the other Farker's daydreaming about Romney dropping out after the convention. That will never happen. If this tax thing shows something REALLY bad (like the amnesty stuff or flat-out cheating) then there's a chance he drops out before getting an actual nomniation. But, even if Romney's tax stuff is the worst case it could be the likelyhood of his ego allowing him to drop out is infinitesimally small.

And, you're correct in the fact the Texas' resident neo-confederate gynecologist isn't ever going to be a nominee.
 
2012-08-03 10:34:13 AM

incendi: Link

Romney's pathetic attempt at reversal. So very pathetic.



That was hilarious. It's like he was saying "You should believe the words that are coming out of my mouth despite never having demonstrated a modicum of honesty in my life before, but you should not believe Reid, demand proof from him! Demand that he prove that I paid no taxes, despite the only way he can even do that is by me releasing my returns. LOL I'm so clever nobody will question my logic because I'm so awesome, the most awesome person who ever lived. Now excuse me while I shove more hundred dollar bills up my butt."
 
2012-08-03 10:34:20 AM

soy_bomb: If Romney hasn't paid income taxes in the last 10 years, why hasn't TIm Geithner had him arrested or Obama nominated him for a cabinet position?

/Reid still hasn't addressed his widely reported involvement in pedastry


what if Romney paid next to nothing in fed income taxes? what do you suppose that would do to his claim that he needs a tax cut to create jobs?

yeah, it would show him to be a fat liar.

better spin faster buddy. there's trouble comin'
 
2012-08-03 10:34:34 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.

"What did the rich people ever build for us?"

"Roads?"

"Nope"

"Bridges"

"Nope"


It's really sad. The rich get all selfish and reflexively opt to go galt, when they have an incredible opportunity here to earn the honor and respect of their less-well-off countrymen. Think about it - some of them could get together and form a group dedicated to using their abundant wealth to change public policy so that they pay more taxes to the point where we have no other choise but to respect them for their sacrifice in providing for a better country. Or simply refuse to wait until then and start funding projects privately that benefit the public - shift from hiding funds offshore to hiring strictly american companies with strictly american workers to build american infrastructure.

Like FDR - he was the spoiled son of a rich banker who became a rich banker himself (surprise?) but then did the opposite of what these rich farks want and instituted the New Deal. Then Eisenhower - a rich man in his own right - expanded some new deal programs and instated SS and the highway system. And they're considered heroes of the American people.

Instead of being scorned for shunning the 'dirty poors' and stacking the deck in their favor while watching our infrastructure crumble and our people starve, they could change this country into the shining bastion that we all blindly proclaim it to be.

But they refuse to. And it makes me sad.
 
2012-08-03 10:34:39 AM

imontheinternet: HeartBurnKid: imontheinternet: Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

As we all know, responsible reporters only report what's on record. That's why we knew the identity of Deep Throat from day 1.

Woodward and Bernstein didn't shout from a mountaintop that Nixon ordered Watergate based on anonymous sources with no independent confirmation.


FTFWiki: "Relying heavily upon anonymous sources, Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein uncovered information suggesting knowledge of the break-in, and attempts to cover it up, led deep into the Justice Department, the FBI, the CIA, and the White House."
 
2012-08-03 10:34:41 AM

Kevin72: Who were they going to pick? Sanitorium? Gingrich? Perry? Bachmann? Jeb Bush? Jindahl? Pawlenty? Cheney? RON PAUL!!!!111!!!!!


Huntsman/Guiliani 2012.
 
2012-08-03 10:34:41 AM

odinsposse: They aren't really trying. They repeat the talking points sent to them and whatever they get off twitter. They are incredibly lazy.


That's their version of trying. Let's see what Facebook has to say about it.
 
2012-08-03 10:35:14 AM

Rann Xerox: I wonder if anyone out there who wanted to be Romney's VP pick is suddenly having a change of heart.


You're assuming that anyone wanted to be his VP pick. I'm reminded of the old Firesign Theater bit about a kamikaze training session. After a detailed description of just exactly how the mission will be performed, the Commander asks "are there any questions?". A hand goes up in the back of the room, and a pilot asks "are you farking crazy?".
 
2012-08-03 10:35:58 AM

insano: I don't give the Romney campaign a lot of credit, but this could be a smart ploy to undermine the democrats' tax argument if and when Romney releases his tax returns. For instance, if Romney paid very little in taxes, that will look bad for him. But if he can plant a source spreading the rumor that he paid zero taxes and if key democratic people run with this idea (and cnn keeps reporting wishy-washy articles like this one), then when he actually does release his tax returns he gets to say "see! I paid taxes just like everyone else. The democrats have been saying all along that I paid zero taxes which is clearly untrue." The fact that he paid egregiously low taxes compared to everyone else will be mitigated by the fact that the democrats were caught speculating. It wont completely cure Romney of the tax return issue but at least it wont be quite as devastating a blow to his campaign.


No, all Obama has to do is run an ad saying "Mitt Romney paid 3% in taxes. You paid 25%. Now Mitt Romney wants to raise your taxes so that he can cut his even further. Don't you think Romney and his fat-cat friends should be paying their fair share?"
 
2012-08-03 10:36:42 AM

insano: I don't give the Romney campaign a lot of credit, but this could be a smart ploy to undermine the democrats' tax argument if and when Romney releases his tax returns. For instance, if Romney paid very little in taxes, that will look bad for him. But if he can plant a source spreading the rumor that he paid zero taxes and if key democratic people run with this idea (and cnn keeps reporting wishy-washy articles like this one), then when he actually does release his tax returns he gets to say "see! I paid taxes just like everyone else. The democrats have been saying all along that I paid zero taxes which is clearly untrue." The fact that he paid egregiously low taxes compared to everyone else will be mitigated by the fact that the democrats were caught speculating. It wont completely cure Romney of the tax return issue but at least it wont be quite as devastating a blow to his campaign.


I thought of that too, but it's very hard to predict how things will play out in the news cycles and public opinion. There's too many "ifs" for that to be a real plan.
 
2012-08-03 10:37:03 AM

unexplained bacon: Cat Food Sandwiches: badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.

The damage is done and people are talking about this rather than the 8.3% unemployment. But believe me, when voting time comes the unemployed won't give a crap about Reid's lies.

but Romney says we need to cut taxes for the wealthy to make more jobs...shouldn't he be able to show us on his tax returns how fed taxes are holding him back.

unless it turns out he's paying next to nothing already...uh uh that might make his entire campaign look like it's a giant shiatstorm.


If you will be honest with yourself, you will admit you know that no one is asking for a tax cut for anyone. He just wants to keep the same rate we have had for 10 years.
 
2012-08-03 10:37:25 AM
Whether the Mittster paid taxes or no, this is at least as credible as the Birth Certificate thing, why can't THIS dominate the news for 2 or 3 years straight, give the Right a taste of their own medicine?
 
2012-08-03 10:37:29 AM

insano: but this could be a smart ploy to undermine the democrats' tax argument if and when Romney releases his tax returns.


If this is a rat-farking then Reid and Bash will rake the source over the coals. The story will be about Romney's false flag operation, sending a "highly credible" source to lie to elected officials and reporters.
 
2012-08-03 10:38:18 AM

Mikey1969: Whether the Mittster paid taxes or no, this is at least as credible as the Birth Certificate thing, why can't THIS dominate the news for 2 or 3 years straight, give the Right a taste of their own medicine?


Because "liberal" media.
 
2012-08-03 10:38:26 AM

WombatControl: Oh look, a highly credible source gave me this super-secret memo:


TO: Official Obama Cheerleading Brigade
FROM: Obama For America
RE: Today's Marching Orders

This morning, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released the unemployment numbers for the month of July. While we were able to use statistical fudges to get the overal job growth number to 163,000 (a new "bikini graph" talking point update will be distributed shortly), the unemployment number rose to 8.3%. While we figure out why this was George W. Bush's fault, we need all of our loyal Cheerleaders to keep on working to distract the American people.

That means you need to milk Sen. Reid's tax accusations for a few more days until our crack Distractions Unit comes up with a new accusation against Mitt Romney. We've had one of our top CNN agents try to fan the flames for a little bit longer, but we need all of you to continually flog your approved Cheerleader Talking Points at least through the weekend.

Remember, our Cheerleading Squad is crucial to our efforts at districting the American electorate from the state of the economy so that Barack Obama can spent at least another four years in the White House. So keep up the blogging, make sure that you forward all the Daily Kos and TPM stories to your friends and posting them on Facebook, Twitter, and for the three of you on Google Plus you might as well do that too. Dear Leader President Obama is counting on your support!

P.S. While we appreciate the enthusiasm for emulating the President, we would like to remind our Cheerleaders that a "hot dog roast" should only involve processed meat products, and not real dogs.


Wait, you say, that "memo" is a total fake with no basis in reality! Well, prove that it's fake then!


I could tell it was fake because it didn't ask for 3$ for a chance win lunch with Barry and Michelle. Also, it didn't try to pretend we were on a first name basis even though we've never met.

3/10. would flag as spam.
 
2012-08-03 10:38:38 AM
How stupid is Harry Reid to double down on this stuff? There is, simply, no way that he did not pay any income tax over the last ten years. This will not increase the call for Mitt to release his returns, plus it's just disingenuous. He knows better than to take some guy's word for it at Bain. Now, when Mitt releases the returns, any amount of tax paid will have overcome the incredibly high burden that Reid just set. Why, oh why, must the Democrats insist on snatching defeat at every opportunity?
 
2012-08-03 10:39:02 AM
There's mild chatter in the Freep-verse that the person could be the one and only Sarah Palin (which is theoretically possible, via the McCain campaign), as a means the rise to power at the convention.

Entirely unlikely to be true, but an hilarious fantasy.
 
2012-08-03 10:39:39 AM

qorkfiend: imontheinternet: HeartBurnKid: imontheinternet: Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

As we all know, responsible reporters only report what's on record. That's why we knew the identity of Deep Throat from day 1.

Woodward and Bernstein didn't shout from a mountaintop that Nixon ordered Watergate based on anonymous sources with no independent confirmation.

FTFWiki: "Relying heavily upon anonymous sources, Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein uncovered information suggesting knowledge of the break-in, and attempts to cover it up, led deep into the Justice Department, the FBI, the CIA, and the White House."


FTFWiki: "During this early period, most of the media failed to grasp the full implications of the scandal, and concentrated reporting on other topics related to the 1972 Presidential election. After the revelation that one of the convicted burglars wrote to Judge Sirica alleging a high-level coverup, the media shifted its focus."
 
2012-08-03 10:39:56 AM
Romney: Federal taxes are to high on the wealthy job creators like me and that's why we're not creating jobs

America: Ok, let's see just how much the Feds have been holding you back

Romney: No, you'll just make fun of me.
 
2012-08-03 10:40:00 AM

Bungles: There's mild chatter in the Freep-verse that the person could be the one and only Sarah Palin (which is theoretically possible, via the McCain campaign), as a means the rise to power at the convention.

Entirely unlikely to be true, but an hilarious fantasy.


Because when I think Sarah Palin, I think of Machiavellian scheming.
 
2012-08-03 10:40:06 AM

More_Like_A_Stain: Corvus: What would be hilarious is democrats in congress to put up a bill where anyone running for US president must show 10 years of tax returns AND their official birth certificate. Put republucans in a situation where they would look bad voting either way.

How can it possibly look worse than to have the son of the man that initiated the tradition be the first to refuse to honor it in nearly half of a century?


The person that started that tradition was George Romney who was an excellent Republican governor of Michigan. George Romney who had an exemplary business career before being governor consolidating Kelvinator, Nash, Packard, and other companies into American Motors. Presciently insisting on the smaller car niche. Rescued businesses, synergized them, saved and created jobs.
 
2012-08-03 10:40:15 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.

The damage is done and people are talking about this rather than the 8.3% unemployment. But believe me, when voting time comes the unemployed won't give a crap about Reid's lies.


Yeah, they'll be thinking about their unemployment checks instead. Where does Romney stand on that again?
 
2012-08-03 10:40:26 AM

Imperialism: No, all Bash did was find the same source Reid did.


Actually no, if she's telling the truth, it's a source that knows who the Bain source is, but isn't the Bain source. IN other words, and entirely different person altogether.

Now this requires Bash to be telling the truth, as well as the source, but if it's all kosher, then it is not the same source.

FTFA: Bash went even further, she said this source also personally knows the Bain source who would have access to Romney's tax record.
 
2012-08-03 10:40:26 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: If you will be honest with yourself, you will admit you know that no one is asking for a tax cut for anyone. He just wants to keep the same rate we have had for 10 years.


While simultaneously reducing the deficit. I wonder how he'll manage to do that...
 
2012-08-03 10:41:28 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: unexplained bacon: Cat Food Sandwiches: badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.

The damage is done and people are talking about this rather than the 8.3% unemployment. But believe me, when voting time comes the unemployed won't give a crap about Reid's lies.

but Romney says we need to cut taxes for the wealthy to make more jobs...shouldn't he be able to show us on his tax returns how fed taxes are holding him back.

unless it turns out he's paying next to nothing already...uh uh that might make his entire campaign look like it's a giant shiatstorm.

If you will be honest with yourself, you will admit you know that no one is asking for a tax cut for anyone. He just wants to keep the same rate we have had for 10 years.


Practically the only detail we know about Romney's tax plan is that he wants lower rates, i.e. tax cuts. So no, he doesn't want to keep the same rate we've had for 10 years.
 
2012-08-03 10:42:20 AM

imontheinternet: qorkfiend: imontheinternet: HeartBurnKid: imontheinternet: Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

As we all know, responsible reporters only report what's on record. That's why we knew the identity of Deep Throat from day 1.

Woodward and Bernstein didn't shout from a mountaintop that Nixon ordered Watergate based on anonymous sources with no independent confirmation.

FTFWiki: "Relying heavily upon anonymous sources, Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein uncovered information suggesting knowledge of the break-in, and attempts to cover it up, led deep into the Justice Department, the FBI, the CIA, and the White House."

FTFWiki: "During this early period, most of the media failed to grasp the full implications of the scandal, and concentrated reporting on other topics related to the 1972 Presidential election. After the revelation that one of the convicted burglars wrote to Judge Sirica alleging a high-level coverup, the media shifted its focus."


You're the one who claimed they didn't use anonymous sources, fella.
 
2012-08-03 10:42:29 AM

Boxcutta: How stupid is Harry Reid to double down on this stuff?

Now, when Mitt releases the returns


If that happens, then Reid is farking brilliant.
 
2012-08-03 10:42:42 AM

Boxcutta: Now, when Mitt releases the returns, any amount of tax paid...


will underscore just how much bullshiat the whole "overburdened job creator" fantasy really is.
 
2012-08-03 10:43:04 AM

randomjsa: "People are stupid. They will believe anything either because they want it to be true or they are afraid that it might be true."

So basically the IRS hasn't ruined Romney's life by now... because? Go on, tell us.

Romney released one year of tax returns and the results have been an unprecedented campaign of distortion and lies from liberals about it. He's going to release this years tax returns, and the results will be another campaign of distortions and lies from liberals. I'm terribly sorry if Romney isn't given you material to distort and lie about because you sure as hell can't run on Obama's record.


Unprecedented? I don't that that means what you think it means.

Whar birf certfic, whar?
/whattabout his grade school records!
/first college paper!

fark off, you shill.
 
2012-08-03 10:44:14 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Boxcutta: How stupid is Harry Reid to double down on this stuff?

Now, when Mitt releases the returns

If that happens, then Reid is farking brilliant.


And if the source happens to have exaggerated in his descriptions, that will be brushed aside in the flood of LOOK AT HOW MUCH HIS DANCING HORSE COSTS reports.
 
2012-08-03 10:44:32 AM

stoli n coke: Kome: LordJiro: Corvus: OHHH OHHH!

Romney is farked if this story is true. Reid is one thing but a news source also saying it's true is going to make it 10 worse. And now Romney is on record saying it is untrue.

It's a nice trap. Romney can let the lie (if it is a lie) about him paying no taxes run rampant, OR he can release the tax returns. And he's made it clear that there's SOMETHING damaging in those returns...so either way, he's farked.

The 2008 McCain campaign have helped make that clear. If you look through his tax history and then say "Crap, we're going with Palin" you know there are skeletons in his closet that would make the Cryptkeeper do a double-take.

At this point, I wouldn't doubt if CNN's anonymous source is Steve Schmidt.
From what I've read, there was some bad blood between McCain and Romney during the 2008 primaries.


Yea you're probably right. I didn't even think about that.
 
2012-08-03 10:44:39 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: unexplained bacon: Cat Food Sandwiches: badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.

The damage is done and people are talking about this rather than the 8.3% unemployment. But believe me, when voting time comes the unemployed won't give a crap about Reid's lies.

but Romney says we need to cut taxes for the wealthy to make more jobs...shouldn't he be able to show us on his tax returns how fed taxes are holding him back.

unless it turns out he's paying next to nothing already...uh uh that might make his entire campaign look like it's a giant shiatstorm.

If you will be honest with yourself, you will admit you know that no one is asking for a tax cut for anyone. He just wants to keep the same rate we have had for 10 years.


ah I see we've moved to the semantics round...

I'll pass on that.

if he says taxes are holding back the wealthy from creating jobs then I want to know what that looks like in real dollars on his returns.

if you could be honest with yourself you'd admit there's an obvious reason he's not showing us the returns, and that is that they would show he's paying very little and his claim that he can't pay more without it hurting job creation is BS.

I'd also like to see just how many jobs were created by the wealthy during the time this tax cut has been in place, 'cause it looks to me that while they got the tax cut, job creation (in the states) wasn't happening. kinda makes the entire argument about tax cuts for job creators look like nothing but a scam.
 
2012-08-03 10:44:49 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Bungles: There's mild chatter in the Freep-verse that the person could be the one and only Sarah Palin (which is theoretically possible, via the McCain campaign), as a means the rise to power at the convention.

Entirely unlikely to be true, but an hilarious fantasy.

Because when I think Sarah Palin, I think of Machiavellian scheming.



It wouldn't really be Machiavellian scheming, just her classic brand of high school cheer leader biatching. The only thing that does seem likely is that if she had heard anything, anything at all, she wouldn't be able to resist mentioning it.
 
2012-08-03 10:45:51 AM
The right wing loons will continue to support him. "I don't wanna pay no taxes, neither!!"
 
2012-08-03 10:46:05 AM

Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.


This.

Where are Fartbongo 0nambla's kindergarten fingerpaintings of Karl Marx? Whar?
 
2012-08-03 10:46:07 AM

Kevin72: The person that started that tradition was George Romney who was an excellent Republican governor of Michigan. George Romney who had an exemplary business career before being governor consolidating Kelvinator, Nash, Packard, and other companies into American Motors. Presciently insisting on the smaller car niche. Rescued businesses, synergized them, saved and created jobs.


Sounds like the polar opposite of his spawn.
 
2012-08-03 10:46:26 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Boxcutta: How stupid is Harry Reid to double down on this stuff?

Now, when Mitt releases the returns

If that happens, then Reid is farking brilliant.


He has to. It's a fantasy that he'll be able to get through this election without releasing them. Or, alternatively, the potential reward for some staffer in the McCain '08 campaign to release them becomes simply too tempting. They're coming out one way or another.

/OK tax returns are coming out.
 
2012-08-03 10:46:42 AM

qorkfiend: imontheinternet: qorkfiend: imontheinternet: HeartBurnKid: imontheinternet: Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

As we all know, responsible reporters only report what's on record. That's why we knew the identity of Deep Throat from day 1.

Woodward and Bernstein didn't shout from a mountaintop that Nixon ordered Watergate based on anonymous sources with no independent confirmation.

FTFWiki: "Relying heavily upon anonymous sources, Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein uncovered information suggesting knowledge of the break-in, and attempts to cover it up, led deep into the Justice Department, the FBI, the CIA, and the White House."

FTFWiki: "During this early period, most of the media failed to grasp the full implications of the scandal, and concentrated reporting on other topics related to the 1972 Presidential election. After the revelation that one of the convicted burglars wrote to Judge Sirica alleging a high-level coverup, the media shifted its focus."

You're the one who claimed they didn't use anonymous sources, fella.


I didn't say they didn't use anonymous sources. I said that a report on Romney's tax returns based on a rumor from an anonymous source or two with no other investigation is not a valid news story. The contents of a person's tax returns and the investigation of a burglary are two completely different things. Like so.
 
2012-08-03 10:46:46 AM
SKIN IN THE GAME
 
2012-08-03 10:46:57 AM

Bungles: There's mild chatter in the Freep-verse that the person could be the one and only Sarah Palin (which is theoretically possible, via the McCain campaign), as a means the rise to power at the convention.

Entirely unlikely to be true, but an hilarious fantasy.


NO. A hilarious fantasy. But not "an" unless you pronounce it "'ilarious" which I doubt. It's not just you on snapping at just now, it's all the birdbrains who say that and things like "an historic" pronouncing the 'h'.

/rant off.
 
2012-08-03 10:47:04 AM
Harry Reid can risk it because he knows that "Of course I didn't pay 0%! Look, I paid 4%" isn't much of a defense.
 
2012-08-03 10:47:27 AM

unexplained bacon: Romney: Federal taxes are to high on the wealthy job creators like me and that's why we're not creating jobs

America: Ok, let's see just how much the Feds have been holding you back

Romney: No, you'll just make fun of me.


This message needs to be looping 24/7 from now right up through election day.
 
2012-08-03 10:47:36 AM

More_Like_A_Stain: Rann Xerox: I wonder if anyone out there who wanted to be Romney's VP pick is suddenly having a change of heart.

You're assuming that anyone wanted to be his VP pick. I'm reminded of the old Firesign Theater bit about a kamikaze training session. After a detailed description of just exactly how the mission will be performed, the Commander asks "are there any questions?". A hand goes up in the back of the room, and a pilot asks "are you farking crazy?".


They'll be people that want to be his VP pick for the same reason people buy lottery tickets: "There's always a chance!"

The problem for Romney is anyone that thinks they can win in 2016 won't hitch their wagon to his campaign. Anyone that wants to be an honest to god useful VP and have a say in policy matters (like Biden demanded) won't either since there's absolutely zero chance Romney would even consider their opinion on anything, much less seek it out.

A VP role under Romney will be a killer for anyone that has aspirations for the presidency combined with a chance to actually become President. It's a complete dead-end.

That leaves us with a bunch of nobodies that hope like hell he wins and hope like hell he wins again in 2016 so they can parlay that gig into a run of their own in 2020. See Pawlenty, Tim as an example. Visibly desperate to become President. Delusional to the point he thinks he can succeed. And shameless enough to sign up with Romney in an attempt to make it happen.

If people thought the GOP Presidential candidates were the B-list of the Party this year, just farking wait until they get a hold of the VP options.
 
2012-08-03 10:47:54 AM

More_Like_A_Stain: Boxcutta: Now, when Mitt releases the returns, any amount of tax paid...

will underscore just how much bullshiat the whole "overburdened job creator" fantasy really is.


To be fair there's no evidence that Mitt Romney ever created a job, either.
 
2012-08-03 10:47:58 AM
Will this be one of those "Well he paid sales and property taxes", knowing full well we are talking about income tax returns, and then in the next breath talking about how poor people need more skin in the game.

Sounds like Mitt needs some skin in the game...
 
2012-08-03 10:48:12 AM

Trapper439: Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.

This.

Where are Fartbongo 0nambla's kindergarten fingerpaintings of Karl Marx? Whar?


Forget the fingerpaintings. The macaroni art is where the real skeletons lie.
 
2012-08-03 10:48:59 AM
John McCain once said that there was nothing disqualifying in Mitt Romney's tax returns.

Mitt Romney once said that he would consider it disqualifying if he ever paid a penny more in taxes than what he was legally obligated to pay.

Put those two statements together. I think you have your answer to how much he paid.
 
2012-08-03 10:49:06 AM
I would believe it if it was coming from any other source but CNN.
 
2012-08-03 10:49:24 AM
This is a true statment, "Many are saying Romney paid no taxes for the last decade."

CNN is just reporting what 'many are saying'.
 
2012-08-03 10:50:09 AM

DjangoStonereaver: I'd attach a headslap GIF here, but I think your sloping brow would make such corrective action
ineffective.


oh_snap.jpg
 
2012-08-03 10:50:27 AM

Serious Black: Mitt Romney once said that he would consider it disqualifying if he ever paid a penny more in taxes than what he was legally obligated to pay.


Whereas a normal person might think that paying less in taxes than legally obligated would be the disqualifying part.

"I did the bare minimum; make me President!"
 
2012-08-03 10:50:28 AM

moralpanic: badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.

I guess it's impossible to know...


Yes, impossible. If only there were some indisputable, officially reviewed documentation that Romney could produce that would refute the allegation; or some widely accepted threshold of disclosure that he could meet to put the topic to rest.

It's so unfair to attack Romney with an accusation that he has no possible way to address!
 
2012-08-03 10:50:34 AM

SoupJohnB: The right wing loons will continue to support him. "I don't wanna pay no taxes, neither!!"


i can almost guarantee this will be the talking point if this turns out to be true. "all taxes are bad!" "romney is a hero for not paying taxes!"
 
2012-08-03 10:51:20 AM

Planterz: CPennypacker: Good luck republicans. Imagine smart people using your tricks. You're boned.

lol!


Q
F
T

It would be great to have a decent contender to O. But Romney is not it.
Is he really the best the GOP has?
That's sad.

The repub party might go by way of Whig.
/Party politics get in the way of good governing and have led to needless public turmoil.
 
2012-08-03 10:51:37 AM

randomjsa: "People are stupid. They will believe anything either because they want it to be true or they are afraid that it might be true."

So basically the IRS hasn't ruined Romney's life by now... because? Go on, tell us.

Romney released one year of tax returns and the results have been an unprecedented campaign of distortion and lies from liberals about it. He's going to release this years tax returns, and the results will be another campaign of distortions and lies from liberals. I'm terribly sorry if Romney isn't given you material to distort and lie about because you sure as hell can't run on Obama's record.


You sound tired, oh so very tired.
 
2012-08-03 10:51:58 AM

qorkfiend: "I did the bare minimum; make me President!"


What was it that comedian with the MittRomney user name on Twitter said? "He wants to be president because he wants to be president? I can imagine if he gets elected he's going to sit down in the oval office and say 'well, that's it then' and then just stare out a window."
 
2012-08-03 10:52:23 AM
Governor Romney, when did you stop cheating on your taxes?
 
2012-08-03 10:53:12 AM

Kevin72: Bungles: There's mild chatter in the Freep-verse that the person could be the one and only Sarah Palin (which is theoretically possible, via the McCain campaign), as a means the rise to power at the convention.

Entirely unlikely to be true, but an hilarious fantasy.

NO. A hilarious fantasy. But not "an" unless you pronounce it "'ilarious" which I doubt. It's not just you on snapping at just now, it's all the birdbrains who say that and things like "an historic" pronouncing the 'h'.

/rant off.



Given I'm British, you can stick your grammatical idiocy up you chuffpipe, as I'm entirely correct. British English and Australian English (and even several US accent) swallow the h on "hilarious" and "historic" when they're in a sentence (although not when alone) in exactly the way most accents do with "hour".

Although Americans bizarrely do the same thing with "herb" when no-one else does.
 
2012-08-03 10:53:16 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: What was it that comedian with the MittRomney user name on Twitter said? "He wants to be president because he wants to be president? I can imagine if he gets elected he's going to sit down in the oval office and say 'well, that's it then' and then just stare out a window."


@robdelany
 
2012-08-03 10:53:22 AM
What I love is the cognitive dissonance of the right on this matter.

Either A: The Obama campaign is playing by the rules and does not know for sure what is in the returns and is talking out of their arses.

Or B: The Obama campaign conducts itself according to Chicago Style(tm) rules and already has every tax return for all Romney family members and all Romney business associates ever filed and is allowing these attacks to continue because they know how farked Gov. Romney really is.

Pick one Real Americans(tm).

A: The Obama campaign is not a Chicago Style(tm) operation.

B: Your side is completely farked.
 
2012-08-03 10:53:54 AM

sprawl15: HotWingConspiracy: Boxcutta: How stupid is Harry Reid to double down on this stuff?

Now, when Mitt releases the returns

If that happens, then Reid is farking brilliant.

And if the source happens to have exaggerated in his descriptions, that will be brushed aside in the flood of LOOK AT HOW MUCH HIS DANCING HORSE COSTS reports.


Well then they can just calmly explain to the electorate that it's a dancing therapy horse, and it's totally mean for anyone to criticize therapy. Plus, when the voters get their own therapy horse, they'll be happy the Romney's were fighting for therapy horse tax deductions.
 
2012-08-03 10:55:05 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: qorkfiend: "I did the bare minimum; make me President!"

What was it that comedian with the MittRomney user name on Twitter said? "He wants to be president because he wants to be president? I can imagine if he gets elected he's going to sit down in the oval office and say 'well, that's it then' and then just stare out a window."


He'd probably have a cup of...oh, wait.
 
2012-08-03 10:55:28 AM
Fark Cons have a lot of water to carry for the next couple months.

Dont throw your backs out yet.
 
2012-08-03 10:55:29 AM
Last weekend, the pro-Romney talking heads got to talk about his trip to London on the weekend news shows.
This weekend, the pro-Romney talking heads get to chose whether to talk about Romney's tax returns or Romney's proposed tax increases.

I'd hang myself if I were a pro-Romney talking head.
 
2012-08-03 10:55:34 AM

Bungles: Although Americans bizarrely do the same thing with "herb" when no-one else does.


eddie izzard: You say 'erbs', and we say 'herbs', because there's a farking 'H' in it!
 
2012-08-03 10:55:55 AM
how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.
 
2012-08-03 10:55:55 AM

sprawl15: LOOK AT HOW MUCH HIS DANCING HORSE COSTS


We already know that from his 1 year of tax returns. $80,000 per year, subsidized by the federal government as a form of medical treatment.
 
2012-08-03 10:56:33 AM

ramblinwreck: bootman: This is the most delicious dirty pool in so many ways.

Why is Sen. Reid leaking this?
Because Sen. Reid is LDS.
Most likely Sen. Reid's source is LDS.
Gov. Romney is LDS.

So Gov. Romney gets dragged through the mud for the returns and the tight cabal that the LDS frequently operates their businesses in and Gov. Romney will have a harder time complaining that this is all anti-Mormon bigotry.

Mormons do often hold each other to a higher standard than non-LDS folks. That is apparent by the belief that only ex-LDS members will remain in Hell ("Outer Darkness") after final judgement.


There is also a weird east coast/west coast thing within the LDS. Apparently, you're not supposed to live east of the Rockies for too long without eventually returning to Utah (or the west at least) and those who stay on the east coast too long are considered to have lost their Mormon Mojo for hanging out with "the heathens" for so long.
 
2012-08-03 10:57:07 AM
There's a joke in here somewhere, but I don't know what it is.

"Tax evaders are people too, my friends..."
"My 1040s are just the right length..."
"Mr. Romney retroactively paid a 36% tax rate..."
 
2012-08-03 10:57:27 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: qorkfiend: "I did the bare minimum; make me President!"

What was it that comedian with the MittRomney user name on Twitter said? "He wants to be president because he wants to be president? I can imagine if he gets elected he's going to sit down in the oval office and say 'well, that's it then' and then just stare out a window."


upload.wikimedia.org

Could have sworn there was a movie poster where he was looking out a window, but this will do.
 
2012-08-03 10:58:24 AM
More "release" your tax returns pressure. They're no dodging it for Romney.

When he finally does this "he didn't pay taxes" thing will fade away as though it never happened and the Demos will go back to "look how obscenely wealthy he is."

Yawn.
 
2012-08-03 10:58:31 AM

ariseatex:
The fact that both Harry Reid and Dana Bash (CNN congressional correspondent) cite their source about Romney's taxes as "very credible" suggests to me that the source is in John McCain's current or former staff, if not John McCain himself.


That sounds plausible since Romney allegedly provided the McCain campaign w/ 23 years of tax returns.
 
2012-08-03 10:58:42 AM

skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.


Maybe, with someone as savvy as that, you would dumb not to Vote Republican, amirite?
 
2012-08-03 10:58:52 AM

Lost Thought 00: sprawl15: LOOK AT HOW MUCH HIS DANCING HORSE COSTS

We already know that from his 1 year of tax returns. $80,000 per year, subsidized by the federal government as a form of medical treatment.


*rolleyes*
 
2012-08-03 10:59:42 AM

Cletus C.: More "release" your tax returns pressure. They're no dodging it for Romney.

When he finally does this "he didn't pay taxes" thing will fade away as though it never happened and the Demos will go back to "look how obscenely wealthy he is."


Do you feel he should release more tax returns?
 
2012-08-03 10:59:43 AM

skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.


people with as much money as he typically employ an army of tax attorneys who shelter their money offshore and exploit every conceivable loophole so that they effectively pay no tax.

as f. scott fitzgerald said, "the rich are different than you and me."
 
2012-08-03 11:00:03 AM
I bet that after he paid enough money into it, he just claimed all the Mormons as his dependents. ;)
 
2012-08-03 11:00:22 AM

Bungles: Kevin72: Bungles: There's mild chatter in the Freep-verse that the person could be the one and only Sarah Palin (which is theoretically possible, via the McCain campaign), as a means the rise to power at the convention.

Entirely unlikely to be true, but an hilarious fantasy.

NO. A hilarious fantasy. But not "an" unless you pronounce it "'ilarious" which I doubt. It's not just you on snapping at just now, it's all the birdbrains who say that and things like "an historic" pronouncing the 'h'.

/rant off.


Given I'm British, you can stick your grammatical idiocy up you chuffpipe, as I'm entirely correct. British English and Australian English (and even several US accent) swallow the h on "hilarious" and "historic" when they're in a sentence (although not when alone) in exactly the way most accents do with "hour".

Although Americans bizarrely do the same thing with "herb" when no-one else does.


I did allow for "ilarious" which I doubted when writing but now accept. My real problem is with Americans who say "an historic" and do pronounce the 'h' I guess they're trying to sound sophisticated and British but their fakery hurts my ears.
 
2012-08-03 11:00:37 AM

NateGrey: skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.

Maybe, with someone as savvy as that, you would dumb not to Vote Republican, amirite?


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-03 11:01:06 AM

Boxcutta: "Mr. Romney retroactively paid a 36% tax rate..."


What would make me the happiest is if Romney voluntarily pays the IRS $50-100 million or so it will take to get his effective tax rate up to "reasonable" levels, but then loses the election anyways.
 
2012-08-03 11:02:11 AM
Let me guess, now Romney's camp comes out and shows that he paid 2$ in taxes for one year and therefore, because CNN was wrong, he is completely absolved and is automatically president.
 
2012-08-03 11:02:14 AM

Cletus C.: More "release" your tax returns pressure. They're no dodging it for Romney.

When he finally does this "he didn't pay taxes" thing will fade away as though it never happened and the Demos will go back to "look how obscenely wealthy he is."

Yawn.


Yeah, that's exactly what happened when Barack Obama released his long-form birth certificate. The birthers shut up and accepted the truth and went on their merry way.
 
2012-08-03 11:02:23 AM

sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.


He's more of a "Being There" kind of satire.

"Lemon. Wet. Good."
 
2012-08-03 11:02:48 AM

Shrugging Atlas: If people thought the GOP Presidential candidates were the B-list of the Party this year, just farking wait until they get a hold of the VP options.


Early in the primaries, the Grauniad described the Republican field as a veritable "Who's That?" of American politics, some of whom were not even a household name in their own households. It's going to be hard to top that level of mockery, but I'm sure they'll try.
 
2012-08-03 11:02:48 AM

star_topology: Could have sworn there was a movie poster where he was looking out a window, but this will do.


W had a window installed in the ceiling of the Oval Office. Condi's office was upstairs.
 
2012-08-03 11:03:07 AM

Serious Black: Yeah, that's exactly what happened when Barack Obama released his long-form birth certificate. The birthers shut up and accepted the truth and went on their merry way.


dems and republicans are as different as the morlocks and the eloi.
 
2012-08-03 11:03:10 AM

Cat Food Sandwiches: unexplained bacon: Cat Food Sandwiches: badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.

The damage is done and people are talking about this rather than the 8.3% unemployment. But believe me, when voting time comes the unemployed won't give a crap about Reid's lies.

but Romney says we need to cut taxes for the wealthy to make more jobs...shouldn't he be able to show us on his tax returns how fed taxes are holding him back.

unless it turns out he's paying next to nothing already...uh uh that might make his entire campaign look like it's a giant shiatstorm.

If you will be honest with yourself, you will admit you know that no one is asking for a tax cut for anyone. He just wants to keep the same rate we have had for 10 years.


O RLY?
 
2012-08-03 11:03:22 AM

Linoleum_Blownapart: sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.

He's more of a "Being There" kind of satire.

"Lemon. Wet. Good."


Jesus Christ, I don't think he's capable of pulling that off.
 
2012-08-03 11:04:06 AM
If Romney had nothing to hide, he'd release his tax returns. Since he hasn't, he must have killed a girl in 1990 and written it off as a business expense. Q.E.D., modus trollens.
 
2012-08-03 11:04:23 AM

Mikey1969: Whether the Mittster paid taxes or no, this is at least as credible as the Birth Certificate thing, why can't THIS dominate the news for 2 or 3 years straight, give the Right a taste of their own medicine?


It can't because Romney is going to vanish after November.
 
2012-08-03 11:04:28 AM

Jackson Herring: sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.

when do we get to see his penis


i865.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-03 11:05:41 AM

skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.


It may be possible. If, for example, you're living off saving and investments then you only pay a capital gains tax rate. You aren't paying taxes on ordinary income because you don't have any.
 
2012-08-03 11:06:09 AM

Lost Thought 00: Boxcutta: "Mr. Romney retroactively paid a 36% tax rate..."

What would make me the happiest is if Romney voluntarily pays the IRS $50-100 million or so it will take to get his effective tax rate up to "reasonable" levels, but then loses the election anyways.


I wonder if he could do it with campaign funds.
 
2012-08-03 11:06:36 AM

odinsposse: skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.

It may be possible. If, for example, you're living off saving and investments then you only pay a capital gains tax rate. You aren't paying taxes on ordinary income because you don't have any.


which is what everyone expected was the case. That would appear on a tax return though. Paying NO taxes is quite another feat altogether
 
2012-08-03 11:06:41 AM

Captain Dan: If Romney had nothing to hide, he'd release his tax returns. Since he hasn't, he must have killed a girl in 1990 and written it off as a business expense. Q.E.D., modus trollens.


You forgot the rape, buddy.
 
2012-08-03 11:07:02 AM

FlashHarry: as f. scott fitzgerald said, "the rich are different than you and me."


to which Hemingway allegedly replied, "yes, they have more money".
 
2012-08-03 11:08:02 AM

skullkrusher: Paying NO taxes is quite another feat altogether


Paying NO taxes is quite another feat



/Sorry, couldn't help it.
 
2012-08-03 11:08:20 AM

NateGrey: Cletus C.: More "release" your tax returns pressure. They're no dodging it for Romney.

When he finally does this "he didn't pay taxes" thing will fade away as though it never happened and the Demos will go back to "look how obscenely wealthy he is."

Do you feel he should release more tax returns?


Personally, I don't much care. But yes, he needs to release more returns. Otherwise, the Demo wet dream narratives like this will continue to propagate.
 
2012-08-03 11:08:59 AM

Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.


To THIS DAY I STILL have no idea if you are a troll or not...
 
2012-08-03 11:09:31 AM
I can't say this in enough places. His wife wants us to make assumptions based on how he has lived his life.

As chair of the audit committee at Marriott, he signed off on the use of a terribly illegal tax shelter called Son of BOSS. We know he has no problem with being a tax cheat. Not a careful or aggressive planner, a tax cheat engaging in illegal activities. If he was unaware then he was remiss in his duties as a member of the board either through carelessness or inattention, allowing subordinates to run mad, which would also be a terrible indicator for his ability to serve as president.

It would not be surprising to find out he cheated on his own taxes using tax shelters and/or participated in the 2009 OVDI (offshore voluntary disclosure initiative) amnesty program for people who had secret undisclosed Swiss and other foreign accounts. The timing dovetails perfectly with the returns he did release.
 
2012-08-03 11:10:25 AM

Serious Black: You forgot the rape, buddy.


Electorate: Qualifications?
Romney: Tax dodging, murder, arson, and tax dodging.
Electorate: You said tax dodging twice.
Romney: I like tax dodging.
 
2012-08-03 11:10:40 AM

Kevin72: Bungles: Kevin72: Bungles: There's mild chatter in the Freep-verse that the person could be the one and only Sarah Palin (which is theoretically possible, via the McCain campaign), as a means the rise to power at the convention.

Entirely unlikely to be true, but an hilarious fantasy.

NO. A hilarious fantasy. But not "an" unless you pronounce it "'ilarious" which I doubt. It's not just you on snapping at just now, it's all the birdbrains who say that and things like "an historic" pronouncing the 'h'.

/rant off.


Given I'm British, you can stick your grammatical idiocy up you chuffpipe, as I'm entirely correct. British English and Australian English (and even several US accent) swallow the h on "hilarious" and "historic" when they're in a sentence (although not when alone) in exactly the way most accents do with "hour".

Although Americans bizarrely do the same thing with "herb" when no-one else does.

I did allow for "ilarious" which I doubted when writing but now accept. My real problem is with Americans who say "an historic" and do pronounce the 'h' I guess they're trying to sound sophisticated and British but their fakery hurts my ears.



I'll let you off then, as I also hate Americans adopting bizarre accents and grammatical quirks. We've had Madonna squatting on our shores for years..
 
2012-08-03 11:11:37 AM

Bungles: We've had Madonna squatting on our shores for years..


That's our response for subjecting us to the Spice Girls.
 
2012-08-03 11:12:08 AM

friday13: Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.

To THIS DAY I STILL have no idea if you are a troll or not...


would be a bold quid pro quo on Mittens' part. Tax returns in exchange for BO's college transcripts and scholarly publications. Though, I suspect that Mitt's returns are quite a bit more damning than BO's transcripts so it won't happen.
 
2012-08-03 11:12:14 AM
Hey, Birthers, thanks for showing Dems how to do this shiat! Except this time, the documents being demanded could actually be interesting.
 
2012-08-03 11:14:12 AM
I wonder if Harry Reid's source is talking about they years that Romney was Governor of MA. He pledged and did not take the salary of Governor. Not sure how that affects his income tax rate in 2003 through 2007.
 
2012-08-03 11:14:22 AM

skullkrusher: odinsposse: skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.

It may be possible. If, for example, you're living off saving and investments then you only pay a capital gains tax rate. You aren't paying taxes on ordinary income because you don't have any.

which is what everyone expected was the case. That would appear on a tax return though. Paying NO taxes is quite another feat altogether


Its quite possible that Mittens harvested losses and paid no taxes
 
2012-08-03 11:17:19 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-03 11:17:55 AM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: odinsposse: skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.

It may be possible. If, for example, you're living off saving and investments then you only pay a capital gains tax rate. You aren't paying taxes on ordinary income because you don't have any.

which is what everyone expected was the case. That would appear on a tax return though. Paying NO taxes is quite another feat altogether

Its quite possible that Mittens harvested losses and paid no taxes


getting around the AMT though? Not an accountant but this all sounds sketchy imo. I think the UBS account amnesty is a more likely explanation of why he didn't release his returns. The fines and back taxes paid on that would show up on a return
 
2012-08-03 11:20:19 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: dr_blasto: Dinki: dr_blasto: 2010 tax was complete. T

ManateeGag: Since this is CNN reporting, it could be the exact opposite for all we know.

Um, it's CNN, not Fox. CNN may be incompetent, but they aren't the liars of Fox.

True, but everyone knows that when CNN reports something you need to doublecheck that they haven't hosed it again. I'll give them the credit that they're not necessarily intentionally bullshiatting like FOX does.

CNN is proof positive that you should not attribute to malice what is better attributed to incompetence. They're dumb as a bag of hammers. Although I am inclined to believe Mitt Romney is shadier than a live oak, I'm going to wait until this is confirmed by an organization that isn't the international symbol for cranial-rectal inversion.


cdn.ph.upi.com
 
2012-08-03 11:20:26 AM

FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


So Mitt Romney pays the same amount of taxes as an illegal alien? THAT'S a talking point!
 
2012-08-03 11:21:25 AM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: odinsposse: skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.

It may be possible. If, for example, you're living off saving and investments then you only pay a capital gains tax rate. You aren't paying taxes on ordinary income because you don't have any.

which is what everyone expected was the case. That would appear on a tax return though. Paying NO taxes is quite another feat altogether

Its quite possible that Mittens harvested losses and paid no taxes

getting around the AMT though? Not an accountant but this all sounds sketchy imo. I think the UBS account amnesty is a more likely explanation of why he didn't release his returns. The fines and back taxes paid on that would show up on a return


Would he have to pay AMT if he harvested enough losses to bring his net capital income to 0 though? Someone with that much in assets could easily do it, especially with the markets so volatile in the last decade.
 
2012-08-03 11:21:31 AM
randomjsa: So basically the IRS hasn't ruined Romney's life by now... because? Go on, tell us.

How about because a lot of the loopholes, dodges and write-offs that we know Romney availed himself of in the one year he did release are legal but politically toxic? Not to beat a dead dressage horse, but even if Romney didn't do anything technically illegal, he and his cohorts helped create the system that he's been successfully milking for decades. Carried interest, low capital gains taxation rates and absurd write-offs for luxury items may be legal, but even someone as out-of-touch as Romney is knows that the average voter would be outraged at what a sweet deal he's gotten for years, all while crying that he's being unfairly, heavily taxed. Why are you pretending not to understand this?
 
2012-08-03 11:23:15 AM
What's sad is that Romney could release his returns and reveal that he paid no taxes for ten years, took advantage of the Swiss amnesty, donated no money to his church, and gave millions to the Church of Satan, and at least 40% of the country - including practically all of the Midwest and South - would still vote for him.

Everyone always talks about the "clash of civilizations" between Islam and Christianity - the real clash is between fundamentalist religion and intellectual progress (and the fundamentalists are outbreeding the moderate religious and intellectuals).
 
2012-08-03 11:23:33 AM

Boxcutta: How stupid is Harry Reid to double down on this stuff? There is, simply, no way that he did not pay any income tax over the last ten years. This will not increase the call for Mitt to release his returns, plus it's just disingenuous. He knows better than to take some guy's word for it at Bain. Now, when Mitt releases the returns, any amount of tax paid will have overcome the incredibly high burden that Reid just set. Why, oh why, must the Democrats insist on snatching defeat at every opportunity?


You sound concerned.
 
2012-08-03 11:23:51 AM
Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous
 
2012-08-03 11:24:14 AM
This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes.

Income is not the same as wealth.

Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.
 
2012-08-03 11:24:32 AM
So where are his 2011 returns? As I recall, they were due mid-April.

If he filed them and not released them, then he's hiding something that would hurt his campaign.
If he hasn't filed them, then he's paying penalties which are worth less than what he's getting out of delaying. Either there's something that would hurt his campaign or he's reworking the numbers to pay even less in taxes.

No matter what the situation is, I can't imagine this behavior entices the undecideds which end up deciding the election.

/deadlines are for poor people.
 
2012-08-03 11:26:13 AM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: odinsposse: skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.

It may be possible. If, for example, you're living off saving and investments then you only pay a capital gains tax rate. You aren't paying taxes on ordinary income because you don't have any.

which is what everyone expected was the case. That would appear on a tax return though. Paying NO taxes is quite another feat altogether

Its quite possible that Mittens harvested losses and paid no taxes

getting around the AMT though? Not an accountant but this all sounds sketchy imo. I think the UBS account amnesty is a more likely explanation of why he didn't release his returns. The fines and back taxes paid on that would show up on a return


My guess is the claim of no taxes is based upon a misrepresentation of paying such an absurdly low rate that he paid a virtually 0% tax rate.

Either that or a complete fabrication to get Romney to go defensive, since he's shown time and again that he's bad at defense and chock full of hubris.
 
2012-08-03 11:26:29 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes.

Income is not the same as wealth.

Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.


The interest on $250M doesn't count as income? I suppose it doesn't when you have it all deposited overseas specifically to avoid supporting the nation that helped you make your money...
 
2012-08-03 11:26:32 AM

Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.


Heh I like how that birther talking point has gone mainstream.

Captain Dan: /they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous


I don't really get what is supposed to be embarrassing about Obama's transcripts. Usually the wingnuts seem to think Obama was somehow admitted to Harvard as a foreign nationalist.
 
2012-08-03 11:26:40 AM

CPennypacker: Would he have to pay AMT if he harvested enough losses to bring his net capital income to 0 though? Someone with that much in assets could easily do it, especially with the markets so volatile in the last decade.


That would have to be carried forward losses (I think). Considering how much he made in the 90s, how could he have possibly had enough losses carried forward to wipe out his tax liability for a decade?

IIRC, some Bain funds were incorporated in Bermuda which has no income tax - as a result he wouldn't have been required to pay any income taxes on gains realized there but once he repatriated any of that money he would be liable.

God I hate taxes... well tax law at least. Taxes suck a bucket of monkey cocks too but I like road.
 
2012-08-03 11:27:25 AM

sprag: I can't imagine this behavior entices the undecideds which end up deciding the election.


This isn't going to persuade anyone to change their vote. It's upscale birtherism.
 
2012-08-03 11:27:55 AM
photo.goodreads.com

I can see why they're pounding on this as much as they are. Crap like this is what got Obummer elected to the Senate. If Romney had done anything wrong, the IRS would be crawling up his ass, so he should just stay on message and fook these people.
 
2012-08-03 11:28:01 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes.

Income is not the same as wealth.

Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.



Where have you gained the impression that Romney did not have an income for 10 years?

Or did you just make it up?
 
2012-08-03 11:29:34 AM

Shrugging Atlas: More_Like_A_Stain: Rann Xerox: I wonder if anyone out there who wanted to be Romney's VP pick is suddenly having a change of heart.

You're assuming that anyone wanted to be his VP pick. I'm reminded of the old Firesign Theater bit about a kamikaze training session. After a detailed description of just exactly how the mission will be performed, the Commander asks "are there any questions?". A hand goes up in the back of the room, and a pilot asks "are you farking crazy?".

They'll be people that want to be his VP pick for the same reason people buy lottery tickets: "There's always a chance!"

The problem for Romney is anyone that thinks they can win in 2016 won't hitch their wagon to his campaign. Anyone that wants to be an honest to god useful VP and have a say in policy matters (like Biden demanded) won't either since there's absolutely zero chance Romney would even consider their opinion on anything, much less seek it out.

A VP role under Romney will be a killer for anyone that has aspirations for the presidency combined with a chance to actually become President. It's a complete dead-end.

That leaves us with a bunch of nobodies that hope like hell he wins and hope like hell he wins again in 2016 so they can parlay that gig into a run of their own in 2020. See Pawlenty, Tim as an example. Visibly desperate to become President. Delusional to the point he thinks he can succeed. And shameless enough to sign up with Romney in an attempt to make it happen.

If people thought the GOP Presidential candidates were the B-list of the Party this year, just farking wait until they get a hold of the VP options.


Kathy Griffin?
 
2012-08-03 11:29:39 AM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: Would he have to pay AMT if he harvested enough losses to bring his net capital income to 0 though? Someone with that much in assets could easily do it, especially with the markets so volatile in the last decade.

That would have to be carried forward losses (I think). Considering how much he made in the 90s, how could he have possibly had enough losses carried forward to wipe out his tax liability for a decade?

IIRC, some Bain funds were incorporated in Bermuda which has no income tax - as a result he wouldn't have been required to pay any income taxes on gains realized there but once he repatriated any of that money he would be liable.

God I hate taxes... well tax law at least. Taxes suck a bucket of monkey cocks too but I like road.


They don't have to be carried. You can generate new realized losses at the end of the calendar year to offset any gains/dividends/carried interest you earned.
 
2012-08-03 11:29:53 AM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: odinsposse: skullkrusher: how does one go about legally not paying taxes for 10 years? Maybe that's why Mittens won't release his returns. They don't exist.

It may be possible. If, for example, you're living off saving and investments then you only pay a capital gains tax rate. You aren't paying taxes on ordinary income because you don't have any.

which is what everyone expected was the case. That would appear on a tax return though. Paying NO taxes is quite another feat altogether

Its quite possible that Mittens harvested losses and paid no taxes

getting around the AMT though? Not an accountant but this all sounds sketchy imo. I think the UBS account amnesty is a more likely explanation of why he didn't release his returns. The fines and back taxes paid on that would show up on a return

Would he have to pay AMT if he harvested enough losses to bring his net capital income to 0 though? Someone with that much in assets could easily do it, especially with the markets so volatile in the last decade.


IIRC, AMT is based on taxable income. If you have a net capital income of 0, no AMT impact for you.

Also, from Wiki: "A Romney spokesman noted that Romney did not accept a salary while he was Governor and that he paid for his personal and political travel".

So I am not sure why people think that he had a lot of taxable income during that period. It isn't as if he needed to draw a paycheck or sell stock.
 
2012-08-03 11:30:06 AM
As someone who just had to update his SF-86 (security clearance) paperwork, that requires full disclosure of foreign assets, access to credit reports, full access to medical records, copies of my birth certificate and passport, etc. I'm getting a kick.
 
2012-08-03 11:30:37 AM

EighthDay: My guess is the claim of no taxes is based upon a misrepresentation of paying such an absurdly low rate that he paid a virtually 0% tax rate.


I guess that's possible but I'd imagine Reid would have clarified that before going public with this info
 
2012-08-03 11:30:46 AM

Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous


obamaballotchallenge.com
 
2012-08-03 11:31:42 AM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: Would he have to pay AMT if he harvested enough losses to bring his net capital income to 0 though? Someone with that much in assets could easily do it, especially with the markets so volatile in the last decade.

That would have to be carried forward losses (I think). Considering how much he made in the 90s, how could he have possibly had enough losses carried forward to wipe out his tax liability for a decade?

IIRC, some Bain funds were incorporated in Bermuda which has no income tax - as a result he wouldn't have been required to pay any income taxes on gains realized there but once he repatriated any of that money he would be liable.

God I hate taxes... well tax law at least. Taxes suck a bucket of monkey cocks too but I like road.

They don't have to be carried. You can generate new realized losses at the end of the calendar year to offset any gains/dividends/carried interest you earned.


technically yeah, you could generate losses to reduce (or eliminate) your cap gains but what's the point in that? You're better off paying the 15% than losing 100%
 
2012-08-03 11:32:48 AM

Brick-House: Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous

[obamaballotchallenge.com image 500x431]




We get it. No black person has ever been to university without stealing a white person's place.
 
2012-08-03 11:32:48 AM

Brick-House: If Romney had done anything wrong, the IRS would be crawling up his ass


The claim isn't that he did anything illegal, it's that he paid no taxes for 10 years. If true, I suspect it would be through some kind of loophole in the laws. In which case, the IRS would not be after him, but it would still be wrong.
 
2012-08-03 11:33:21 AM

Brick-House: [photo.goodreads.com image 312x475]

I can see why they're pounding on this as much as they are. Crap like this is what got Obummer elected to the Senate. If Romney had done anything wrong, the IRS would be crawling up his ass, so he should just stay on message and fook these people.


The argument is not that Romney did something illegal.
 
2012-08-03 11:33:47 AM

Halli: I don't really get what is supposed to be embarrassing about Obama's transcripts. Usually the wingnuts seem to think Obama was somehow admitted to Harvard as a foreign nationalist.


I doubt there's anything embarrassing in them, but that won't stop me from speculating:

- Middling grades at Occidental/Columbia, a few Cs - grades that on their own couldn't justify admission to Harvard Law

- Enrollment in classes with scary names, e.g. "Marx & Societal Transformation"

- A "C" grade or worse in an Econ class
 
2012-08-03 11:34:01 AM

skullkrusher: EighthDay: My guess is the claim of no taxes is based upon a misrepresentation of paying such an absurdly low rate that he paid a virtually 0% tax rate.

I guess that's possible but I'd imagine Reid would have clarified that before going public with this info


Well, you're assuming that Reid's objective was factual accuracy. I don't think that's the case.
 
2012-08-03 11:34:03 AM

Captain Dan: sprag: I can't imagine this behavior entices the undecideds which end up deciding the election.

This isn't going to persuade anyone to change their vote. It's upscale birtherism.


I'm not so sure. There are a lot of people in the middle who aren't terribly thrilled with either candidate and if it turns out that there are shenanigans then it could tilt them toward Obama.

Birtherism is racism, plain and simple. This is mudslinging politics, which is gross, but its in a different class.
 
2012-08-03 11:34:11 AM

skullkrusher: EighthDay: My guess is the claim of no taxes is based upon a misrepresentation of paying such an absurdly low rate that he paid a virtually 0% tax rate.

I guess that's possible but I'd imagine Reid would have clarified that before going public with this info


Depends on how far along in the chain it went.

Hypothetically, let's say Romney bragged that he paid "almost nothing in taxes" to some of his Bain buddies. I wouldn't put that past him, given his personality. It's a short hop to "nothing in taxes."

Like you, I find it hard to believe that he paid NOTHING in fed income taxes, although it's not outside the realm of possibility given our tax codes and how much of his income is based on capital gains.
 
2012-08-03 11:35:04 AM

qorkfiend: Brick-House: [photo.goodreads.com image 312x475]

I can see why they're pounding on this as much as they are. Crap like this is what got Obummer elected to the Senate. If Romney had done anything wrong, the IRS would be crawling up his ass, so he should just stay on message and fook these people.

The argument is not that Romney did something illegal.


this week ;)
 
2012-08-03 11:35:19 AM

Captain Dan: Halli: I don't really get what is supposed to be embarrassing about Obama's transcripts. Usually the wingnuts seem to think Obama was somehow admitted to Harvard as a foreign nationalist.

I doubt there's anything embarrassing in them, but that won't stop me from speculating:

- Middling grades at Occidental/Columbia, a few Cs - grades that on their own couldn't justify admission to Harvard Law

- Enrollment in classes with scary names, e.g. "Marx & Societal Transformation"

- A "C" grade or worse in an Econ class


That's good for you. It won't change the fact that Romney is secretive about something that every presidential candidate has released for decades.
 
2012-08-03 11:35:38 AM
What the real story is...

www.hi-techredneck.com
 
2012-08-03 11:35:43 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: So I am not sure why people think that he had a lot of taxable income during that period.


I know one sure way to convince them otherwise.
 
2012-08-03 11:36:18 AM

Bungles: tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes.

Income is not the same as wealth.

Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.


Where have you gained the impression that Romney did not have an income for 10 years?

Or did you just make it up?


uhhh, IF he paid no income taxes, and he did things legally, then by definition, he had either no income, or enough tax credits to not pay taxes.

why do people think that a person worth $250M has income every year? Steve Jobs had a salary of $1. If he didn't sell stock in a given year, he has $1 in income.
 
2012-08-03 11:37:01 AM

skullkrusher: technically yeah, you could generate losses to reduce (or eliminate) your cap gains but what's the point in that? You're better off paying the 15% than losing 100%


Well, when you have a lot of investments and a volatile market with high correlation, you can sell stuff when the whole market crashes and immediately buy other stuff (to avoid the wash sale rule), generating losses but not significantly affecting your market position. The way the market's been acting ever since we realized how farked up Greece is has provided pretty much the perfect environment for this sort of activity.
 
2012-08-03 11:37:06 AM

Captain Dan: sprag: I can't imagine this behavior entices the undecideds which end up deciding the election.

This isn't going to persuade anyone to change their vote. It's upscale birtherism.


Independents who are focused on the economy might disagree with you when the argument of the Right is that taxes are too high and that's why the economy isn't improving and their candidate for highest office in the nation refuses to disclose his personal tax rate despite the fact that the tax rates of the wealthy vs the middle and lower classes has become a national discussion when billionaires like Buffet admit that they pay a lower tax rate than the middle class people who work for them.

Just sayin.
 
2012-08-03 11:37:07 AM

qorkfiend: skullkrusher: EighthDay: My guess is the claim of no taxes is based upon a misrepresentation of paying such an absurdly low rate that he paid a virtually 0% tax rate.

I guess that's possible but I'd imagine Reid would have clarified that before going public with this info

Well, you're assuming that Reid's objective was factual accuracy. I don't think that's the case.


Hilariously, it's bringing the birthers out in full force.
 
2012-08-03 11:37:22 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: uhhh, IF he paid no income taxes, and he did things legally, then by definition, he had either no income, or enough tax credits to not pay taxes.

why do people think that a person worth $250M has income every year? Steve Jobs had a salary of $1. If he didn't sell stock in a given year, he has $1 in income.


Then why doesn't Romney just release his tax records?
 
2012-08-03 11:38:10 AM

qorkfiend: skullkrusher: EighthDay: My guess is the claim of no taxes is based upon a misrepresentation of paying such an absurdly low rate that he paid a virtually 0% tax rate.

I guess that's possible but I'd imagine Reid would have clarified that before going public with this info

Well, you're assuming that Reid's objective was factual accuracy. I don't think that's the case.


that's a pretty bold assertion to make if it isn't true. It's not really one of those wishy-washy "I won't address whether I think Obama is a natural born citizen to give myself plausible deniability in both directions". That's more of a "I heard from someone close to the President that Obama was not born in the US"
 
2012-08-03 11:38:20 AM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: Would he have to pay AMT if he harvested enough losses to bring his net capital income to 0 though? Someone with that much in assets could easily do it, especially with the markets so volatile in the last decade.

That would have to be carried forward losses (I think). Considering how much he made in the 90s, how could he have possibly had enough losses carried forward to wipe out his tax liability for a decade?

IIRC, some Bain funds were incorporated in Bermuda which has no income tax - as a result he wouldn't have been required to pay any income taxes on gains realized there but once he repatriated any of that money he would be liable.

God I hate taxes... well tax law at least. Taxes suck a bucket of monkey cocks too but I like road.

They don't have to be carried. You can generate new realized losses at the end of the calendar year to offset any gains/dividends/carried interest you earned.

technically yeah, you could generate losses to reduce (or eliminate) your cap gains but what's the point in that? You're better off paying the 15% than losing 100%


You don't really lose anything unless the stock moves significantly in 30 days

Lets say you made 10 dollars in capital gains this year. You say "fark uncle sam, I'm not paying taxes on this"

You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money
 
2012-08-03 11:38:28 AM

Brick-House: Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous

[obamaballotchallenge.com image 500x431]


Be careful AfternoonDelight, you might burn through this account with your picture spamming.
 
2012-08-03 11:39:03 AM
Republicans, here it is in a nutshell:

Y'all went crazy about Obama's "long-form birth certificate" - something that no prior President had ever released publicly.

Now, Mitt won't release his tax returns - something that every Presidential candidate back to Mitt's father has done - and y'all are saying that it's okay.,

So...yeah. I would be flabbergasted if just once a Republican would admit that maybe their side is doing something just a teeny bit hypocritical.
 
2012-08-03 11:39:48 AM

incendi: skullkrusher: technically yeah, you could generate losses to reduce (or eliminate) your cap gains but what's the point in that? You're better off paying the 15% than losing 100%

Well, when you have a lot of investments and a volatile market with high correlation, you can sell stuff when the whole market crashes and immediately buy other stuff (to avoid the wash sale rule), generating losses but not significantly affecting your market position. The way the market's been acting ever since we realized how farked up Greece is has provided pretty much the perfect environment for this sort of activity.


That's a good point... Moving money around and taking advantage of volatility to reduce your taxable income without actually reducing your wealth... Romney's got the financial acumen (and advisers) to take advantage of that.
 
2012-08-03 11:40:23 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: why do people think that a person worth $250M has income every year? Steve Jobs had a salary of $1. If he didn't sell stock in a given year, he has $1 in income.


You are doing a lot of speculating, you know Romney could always back up your assertions....with facts.
 
2012-08-03 11:41:27 AM
tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes. Income is not the same as wealth. Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.

Congratulations. Your defense of Romney is exactly as vague and speculative as Harry Reid's accusations against him.
 
2012-08-03 11:41:41 AM

Halli: tenpoundsofcheese: uhhh, IF he paid no income taxes, and he did things legally, then by definition, he had either no income, or enough tax credits to not pay taxes.

why do people think that a person worth $250M has income every year? Steve Jobs had a salary of $1. If he didn't sell stock in a given year, he has $1 in income.

Then why doesn't Romney just release his tax records?


I have no idea.

Maybe the same reason 0bama doesn't release his transcripts?

- Something embarrassing? (donations to planned parenthood, for example)
- It isn't relevant to whether or not he is the best Presidential candidate.
 
2012-08-03 11:41:56 AM

incendi: skullkrusher: technically yeah, you could generate losses to reduce (or eliminate) your cap gains but what's the point in that? You're better off paying the 15% than losing 100%

Well, when you have a lot of investments and a volatile market with high correlation, you can sell stuff when the whole market crashes and immediately buy other stuff (to avoid the wash sale rule), generating losses but not significantly affecting your market position. The way the market's been acting ever since we realized how farked up Greece is has provided pretty much the perfect environment for this sort of activity.


you're still net revenue neutral in that case. I don't see the point. Selling a bigtime loser you've held for a while that has no hope of appreciating to offset profits you've taken, sure, I can see that but to do it for 10 years as a tax strategy? Again you're better off paying the 15% rather than taking losses to avoid that 15% only to buy back similar (but not identical) investments in the hope they recoup your losses
 
2012-08-03 11:42:12 AM

FlashHarry: though romney's been running since 2006, so i find this story highly dubious. even mittens isn't that dumb.


Oh, really?

Shorter summary: Mitt's been through this before, he F'ed up his residency requirements for the MA governor race, then "retroactively" erased his Utah residency that he established for tax reasons.
 
2012-08-03 11:43:23 AM

Barricaded Gunman: tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes. Income is not the same as wealth. Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.

Congratulations. Your defense of Romney is exactly as vague and speculative as Harry Reid's accusations against him.


The difference being one gets ridiculed while the other gets greelit on Fark as a fact.
 
2012-08-03 11:44:03 AM

Halli: It won't change the fact that Romney is secretive about something that every presidential candidate has released for decades.


That is factually incorrect (McCain released 2 years, for example). Moreover, it betrays a lack of understanding about politics.

Q: Why did George Romney release 12 years of tax returns?

Hint: It wasn't because he was a nice, upstanding guy.

A: Because it was to his political advantage to do so. He was running against Lyndon Johnson, one of the most financially corrupt politicians in American history (LBJ used his political influence to amass ~$100 million while in the Senate, without any side business ventures), and wanted to highlight an issue that he perceived to be to his advantage.

Mitt Romney obviously feels that it's not to his political advantage to release the same number of tax returns. The outcome is different, but the reasoning is the same.
 
2012-08-03 11:44:06 AM

skullkrusher: qorkfiend: skullkrusher: EighthDay: My guess is the claim of no taxes is based upon a misrepresentation of paying such an absurdly low rate that he paid a virtually 0% tax rate.

I guess that's possible but I'd imagine Reid would have clarified that before going public with this info

Well, you're assuming that Reid's objective was factual accuracy. I don't think that's the case.

that's a pretty bold assertion to make if it isn't true. It's not really one of those wishy-washy "I won't address whether I think Obama is a natural born citizen to give myself plausible deniability in both directions". That's more of a "I heard from someone close to the President that Obama was not born in the US"


That's why it was made by the recently re-elected Senate Majority leader, and not anyone directly tied to the campaign. It also might not be wholly false - the "almost no taxes" to "no taxes" jump seems plausible.

In any case, it's a textbook example of trolling, and it certainly seems to be working as intended.
 
2012-08-03 11:45:21 AM

Lord Dimwit: Now, Mitt won't release his tax returns - something that every Presidential candidate back to Mitt's father has done


Really? The guy who got 19% of the vote in 1992 released his tax returns? Wrong. The media didn't even care.
Kerry released his tax returns, but what a surprise, his wife didn't (as if Kerry didn't benefit from the income of his wife, yeah right).
 
2012-08-03 11:45:32 AM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: Would he have to pay AMT if he harvested enough losses to bring his net capital income to 0 though? Someone with that much in assets could easily do it, especially with the markets so volatile in the last decade.

That would have to be carried forward losses (I think). Considering how much he made in the 90s, how could he have possibly had enough losses carried forward to wipe out his tax liability for a decade?

IIRC, some Bain funds were incorporated in Bermuda which has no income tax - as a result he wouldn't have been required to pay any income taxes on gains realized there but once he repatriated any of that money he would be liable.

God I hate taxes... well tax law at least. Taxes suck a bucket of monkey cocks too but I like road.

They don't have to be carried. You can generate new realized losses at the end of the calendar year to offset any gains/dividends/carried interest you earned.

technically yeah, you could generate losses to reduce (or eliminate) your cap gains but what's the point in that? You're better off paying the 15% than losing 100%

You don't really lose anything unless the stock moves significantly in 30 days

Lets say you made 10 dollars in capital gains this year. You say "fark uncle sam, I'm not paying taxes on this"

You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money


I suppose you could use the wash sale limits in that way but still, that would mean Mittens didn't actually net any money for 10 years. This I find rather dubious. The guy didn't even have a stock throwing off dividends? If *I* had that sort of money, I'd buy a really nicely diversified portfolio of TTF munis and never file a return again while I scuba dove by day and drank beer by night for the rest of my days. Doesn't seem he did that though
 
2012-08-03 11:45:41 AM

Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous


What is the big deal about Obama's college transcripts? Why would anyone (besides a GOP shill, I mean) care what was in them? How could you make the leap there there is some sort of equivalency here (or did I parenthetically answer my own question?)?.
 
2012-08-03 11:45:42 AM
Our next President could be one of the 50%.

Who says he is out of touch with the common man?
 
2012-08-03 11:45:53 AM

skullkrusher: i


See CPennyPacker's point about selling & buying the same stock within 30 days to generate a loss, but then to recover the stock.
 
2012-08-03 11:46:28 AM

Captain Dan: Halli: It won't change the fact that Romney is secretive about something that every presidential candidate has released for decades.

That is factually incorrect (McCain released 2 years, for example). Moreover, it betrays a lack of understanding about politics.

Q: Why did George Romney release 12 years of tax returns?

Hint: It wasn't because he was a nice, upstanding guy.

A: Because it was to his political advantage to do so. He was running against Lyndon Johnson, one of the most financially corrupt politicians in American history (LBJ used his political influence to amass ~$100 million while in the Senate, without any side business ventures), and wanted to highlight an issue that he perceived to be to his advantage.

Mitt Romney obviously feels that it's not to his political advantage to release the same number of tax returns. The outcome is different, but the reasoning is the same.


Yes, but there's clearly no advantage to keeping the returns hidden, either. So Romney believes there is a greater advantage to keeping them hidden than releasing them; this inevitably leads to speculation as to why it is more beneficial for Romney to keep them hidden.
 
2012-08-03 11:46:32 AM
I just hope the assholes funding Romney's run are suffering from sever buyers remorse.
 
2012-08-03 11:46:33 AM

gilgigamesh: Mitt is stuck either continuing to dodge the press and look shady, or come clean.


What if it is a lesson he learned from the Obama birth certificate days...
Let high profile politicians and/or celebrities work themselves into a nice, sudsy froth and then:

BLAMMO!


10 years of Romney's tax returns, sans reason for poutrage.

/Mitt's been too high profile for too long...
 
2012-08-03 11:47:48 AM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: Would he have to pay AMT if he harvested enough losses to bring his net capital income to 0 though? Someone with that much in assets could easily do it, especially with the markets so volatile in the last decade.

That would have to be carried forward losses (I think). Considering how much he made in the 90s, how could he have possibly had enough losses carried forward to wipe out his tax liability for a decade?

IIRC, some Bain funds were incorporated in Bermuda which has no income tax - as a result he wouldn't have been required to pay any income taxes on gains realized there but once he repatriated any of that money he would be liable.

God I hate taxes... well tax law at least. Taxes suck a bucket of monkey cocks too but I like road.

They don't have to be carried. You can generate new realized losses at the end of the calendar year to offset any gains/dividends/carried interest you earned.

technically yeah, you could generate losses to reduce (or eliminate) your cap gains but what's the point in that? You're better off paying the 15% than losing 100%

You don't really lose anything unless the stock moves significantly in 30 days

Lets say you made 10 dollars in capital gains this year. You say "fark uncle sam, I'm not paying taxes on this"

You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money

I suppose you could use the wash sale limits in that way but still, that would mean Mittens didn't actually net any money for 10 years. This I find rather dubious. The guy didn't even have a stock throwing off dividends? If *I* had that sort of money, I'd buy a really nicely diversified portfolio of TTF munis and never file a return again while I scuba dove by day and drank beer by night ...


You still keep your gains. The losses are paper losses only. At the end of the day you still have your realized losses and the positions you had before. The only other thing you have to account for is any movement in the stocks you sold to harvest losses.
 
2012-08-03 11:49:12 AM

Barricaded Gunman: tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes. Income is not the same as wealth. Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.

Congratulations. Your defense of Romney is exactly as vague and speculative as Harry Reid's accusations against him.


Ummm, the difference is that if you are a public figure and a supposed leader and you going to accuse someone of something, you should have more than "I heard from some guy".

This is one step down from "when did you stop beating your wife".

Geez, Reid is wearing his magic underwear a little too tight.
 
2012-08-03 11:50:13 AM

FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


So basically, the same kinds of taxes that your average illegal immigrant pays.
 
2012-08-03 11:50:21 AM
Since we're playing the "college transcripts = tax returns" game, what precedent is there for the release of presidential college transcripts?
 
2012-08-03 11:50:21 AM

StanleyPuff: gilgigamesh: Mitt is stuck either continuing to dodge the press and look shady, or come clean.

What if it is a lesson he learned from the Obama birth certificate days...
Let high profile politicians and/or celebrities work themselves into a nice, sudsy froth and then:

BLAMMO!

10 years of Romney's tax returns, sans reason for poutrage.

/Mitt's been too high profile for too long...


I believe this is the point when a southern woman would say "Oh, bless your heart"

Romney has so many other skeletons that this is just one of the sideshows. Even if he makes it go away with a poof (which won't happen), Obama will pull something else out and Romney will be on the defensive _AGAIN_.
 
2012-08-03 11:50:41 AM

sprag: So where are his 2011 returns? As I recall, they were due mid-April.

If he filed them and not released them, then he's hiding something that would hurt his campaign.
If he hasn't filed them, then he's paying penalties which are worth less than what he's getting out of delaying. Either there's something that would hurt his campaign or he's reworking the numbers to pay even less in taxes.

No matter what the situation is, I can't imagine this behavior entices the undecideds which end up deciding the election.

/deadlines are for poor people.


You can file for an extension in which case your return isn't due until, IIRC, Oct. 15. Surprise!
 
2012-08-03 11:51:25 AM

CPennypacker: You still keep your gains. The losses are paper losses only. At the end of the day you still have your realized losses and the positions you had before. The only other thing you have to account for is any movement in the stocks you sold to harvest losses.


hmmm... assuming you can get back in near the price at which you sold, I suppose that would work. It's not a strategy that grows wealth over time though nor is it likely to be reproduceable for a decade. Your net worth remains stagnant at best - it just allows you to take some profits for income and live off of them while avoiding. In order to have no reportable taxable income, you'd have to always have your losses offset your gains. That sort of accuracy is virtually impossible so you'd likely wind up losing money year over year in terms of net worth
 
2012-08-03 11:51:42 AM

Brick-House: Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous

[obamaballotchallenge.com image 500x431]


Still wondering what kind of shiat you drooling retards would hope to see in the college records.
 
2012-08-03 11:51:46 AM

FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


My in-laws live in the Mormon Mecca of Nauvoo, IL and this is exactly what the Mormon's started to do when they moved back. Everything they buy is "for the church" so they skirt taxes like mad. The tax burden has come down hard on the non-Mormons in the area.
 
2012-08-03 11:52:01 AM
This has been the plan all along. Put out Romney as red meat to keep the Democrats busy while the real nominees get to sit back unvetted until it is too late. Yes, Ladies and Gentlemen, your REAL Republican ticket was not be revealed until the convention but due someone inside the GOP using 'turdblossom' as the wifi password we can now let you know the truth... your Republican Presidential Ticket for 2012: Victoria Jackson/Craig T. Nelson!

Woohoo!

Jackson/Nelson '12!

/Just kidding, we know Republicans could never vote for someone with a last name like Jackson.
 
2012-08-03 11:52:55 AM

Lord Dimwit: Y'all went crazy about Obama's "long-form birth certificate" - something that no prior President had ever released publicly.

Now, Mitt won't release his tax returns - something that every Presidential candidate back to Mitt's father has done - and y'all are saying that it's okay.,

So...yeah. I would be flabbergasted if just once a Republican would admit that maybe their side is doing something just a teeny bit hypocritical.


I'm a Republican. I think birtherism is nuts, the manifestation of an irrational hatred of Obama and liberals. If you hate a person or group enough, you can believe any conspiracy about them.

This strain of thinking isn't limited to Obama. Irrational conspiracies regarding Bill & Hillary Clinton abounded in the 1990s. The only difference now is that Fox News, partisan blogs, and email are catapulting the misinformation more efficiently.

The Romney tax issue is as conspiratorial and politically insular as Birtherism. All it lacks is a catchy name.
 
2012-08-03 11:53:14 AM
Well, retroactively, sure.
 
2012-08-03 11:54:13 AM

Captain Dan: Halli: It won't change the fact that Romney is secretive about something that every presidential candidate has released for decades.

That is factually incorrect (McCain released 2 years, for example). Moreover, it betrays a lack of understanding about politics.

Q: Why did George Romney release 12 years of tax returns?

Hint: It wasn't because he was a nice, upstanding guy.

A: Because it was to his political advantage to do so. He was running against Lyndon Johnson, one of the most financially corrupt politicians in American history (LBJ used his political influence to amass ~$100 million while in the Senate, without any side business ventures), and wanted to highlight an issue that he perceived to be to his advantage.

Mitt Romney obviously feels that it's not to his political advantage to release the same number of tax returns. The outcome is different, but the reasoning is the same.


Too bad it has become the norm and Romney comes off as secretive. He's been running for president since 2006 and should have known this.
 
2012-08-03 11:54:19 AM

StanleyPuff: What if it is a lesson he learned from the Obama birth certificate days...
Let high profile politicians and/or celebrities work themselves into a nice, sudsy froth and then:

BLAMMO!


10 years of Romney's tax returns, sans reason for poutrage.

/Mitt's been too high profile for too long...


And been caught doing exactly the sort of stuff that is being speculated on.
 
2012-08-03 11:54:29 AM

Captain Dan: That is factually incorrect (McCain released 2 years, for example). Moreover, it betrays a lack of understanding about politics.


I believe the point was that:

For decades, presidential candidates have released multiple years of tax returns, dating back to when Mitt's own father started the tradition. Not that all candidates have released decades worth of transcripts.

It's a misplaced modifier, but you actually reinforce the intended assertion - McCain released multiple years of tax returns. Romney has released an impartial 2011 tax return. So he's the first in decades to not release more than 1 tax return, despite turning over years worth of tax returns to the McCain campaign in 2008. This does raise the question as to why?

This is not a new behavior like asking for someone's birth certificate. This is something that candidates have been doing since before my mother was eligible to vote.

You can spin it however you want that it was political advantageous for George Romney, but it has since become a standard practice which Romney is intentionally choosing to ignore. And that makes people curious especially when you compound it with Romney flat out saying it would give the Democrats ammo to use against him.
 
2012-08-03 11:55:06 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Maybe the same reason 0bama doesn't release his transcripts?


Straight to the birther talking points. Classic.
 
2012-08-03 11:55:06 AM

odinsposse: sprag: So where are his 2011 returns? As I recall, they were due mid-April.

If he filed them and not released them, then he's hiding something that would hurt his campaign.
If he hasn't filed them, then he's paying penalties which are worth less than what he's getting out of delaying. Either there's something that would hurt his campaign or he's reworking the numbers to pay even less in taxes.

No matter what the situation is, I can't imagine this behavior entices the undecideds which end up deciding the election.

/deadlines are for poor people.

You can file for an extension in which case your return isn't due until, IIRC, Oct. 15. Surprise!


Even with an extension you have to pay on time. You just have until Oct. 15 to file the paperwork...
 
2012-08-03 11:55:21 AM

odinsposse: sprag: So where are his 2011 returns? As I recall, they were due mid-April.

If he filed them and not released them, then he's hiding something that would hurt his campaign.
If he hasn't filed them, then he's paying penalties which are worth less than what he's getting out of delaying. Either there's something that would hurt his campaign or he's reworking the numbers to pay even less in taxes.

No matter what the situation is, I can't imagine this behavior entices the undecideds which end up deciding the election.

/deadlines are for poor people.

You can file for an extension in which case your return isn't due until, IIRC, Oct. 15. Surprise!


I see what you did there, and I approve.
 
2012-08-03 11:55:33 AM

More_Like_A_Stain: Rann Xerox: I wonder if anyone out there who wanted to be Romney's VP pick is suddenly having a change of heart.

You're assuming that anyone wanted to be his VP pick. I'm reminded of the old Firesign Theater bit about a kamikaze training session. After a detailed description of just exactly how the mission will be performed, the Commander asks "are there any questions?". A hand goes up in the back of the room, and a pilot asks "are you farking crazy?".


LOL!!!! ♪ Geor-gie Tirebiter..... ♫

Good times!
 
2012-08-03 11:56:00 AM
From what I can tell, I don't think that Romney did anything 'illegal'.

From what I can gather and from what I can see, he's setting the stage for an eventual reveal that has him using the loophole-ridden tax code to avoid paying considerable amounts of 'intended' taxes. So while he didn't break the law, his integrity and moral standing is going to take a massive hit.

In short, it's hard to call yourself an upright citizen if you're bending and twisting your finances to a ridiculous degree in order to avoid paying taxes that you really really wouldn't miss if you actually paid them.

It's like watching a lil old miser in a custom tailored Italian suit jump out of a Bentley and wrestle some kid for a quarter that's lying in the gutter.

That's what Romney is afraid being seen as. It's a shame he doesn't realize that 'that' would be a step-up from how he's perceived currently.
 
2012-08-03 11:56:16 AM

Captain Dan: The Romney tax issue is as conspiratorial and politically insular as Birtherism. All it lacks is a catchy name.


Heh do you really think anyone is going to buy that?
 
2012-08-03 11:56:17 AM

Captain Dan: Lord Dimwit: Y'all went crazy about Obama's "long-form birth certificate" - something that no prior President had ever released publicly.

Now, Mitt won't release his tax returns - something that every Presidential candidate back to Mitt's father has done - and y'all are saying that it's okay.,

So...yeah. I would be flabbergasted if just once a Republican would admit that maybe their side is doing something just a teeny bit hypocritical.

I'm a Republican. I think birtherism is nuts, the manifestation of an irrational hatred of Obama and liberals. If you hate a person or group enough, you can believe any conspiracy about them.

This strain of thinking isn't limited to Obama. Irrational conspiracies regarding Bill & Hillary Clinton abounded in the 1990s. The only difference now is that Fox News, partisan blogs, and email are catapulting the misinformation more efficiently.

The Romney tax issue is as conspiratorial and politically insular as Birtherism. All it lacks is a catchy name.


taxers and taxerism

right next to the truthers and trutherism and whatever we call the florida election butthurters
 
2012-08-03 11:56:31 AM

Skleenar: Since we're playing the "college transcripts = tax returns" game, what precedent is there for the release of presidential college transcripts?


why does precedent matter? this isn't a legal issue.

Besides, 0bama broke precedent when he decided to opt out of public funding of his campaign in 2008. That had huge implications beyond any whining about Mitt's taxes.
 
2012-08-03 11:56:34 AM
According to my anonymous sources, the rumors about Mitt Romney paying no taxes for ten years are totally true. In fact, it is even worse than that. Mitt used the earned income tax credit from 1999-2007 in such a way that his refunds exceeded the amount of money the IRS had collected from him.

My anonymous source also tells me that Mitt donated millions to Planned Parenthood with the condition that his money only be used to abort minority babies.

You can totally trust me on this.
 
2012-08-03 11:58:18 AM

FishStampede: I also think it's not far fetched that this could sink his campaign before it even gets out of the dock. I don't think they'll do a brokered convention, the GOP establishment is losing control but they haven't lost it yet and still are pretty canny. Instead, what I see happening (if he doesn't just crawl his way to November) is we'll start seeing a narrative of his wife's battle with MS becoming more prominent, then following the convention he will drop out to deal with her health issues and his VP will take over (with another VP already lined up). If the MS narrative starts coming up more often, and he chooses a charismatic dark horse VP like one of his former opponents from the primary, bet money he'll drop out before November.


Could you imagine that?

We already know that a generic republican wins in the polls, so why can't they have one? Take somebody bland like Portman and make him the new candidate, you know, after the convention when it's too late to seriously attack him. That might actually be a path to victory.

I just don't think ol' Mittens ego would let it happen. He'd rather go down in flames than see another republican in the race... and he will.
 
2012-08-03 11:58:32 AM

CPennypacker: You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money


Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?
 
2012-08-03 11:59:28 AM

Halli: Captain Dan: The Romney tax issue is as conspiratorial and politically insular as Birtherism. All it lacks is a catchy name.

Heh do you really think anyone is going to buy that?


keep the change


/yes i think romney is hiding something and should release the same records as his opponent has
 
2012-08-03 11:59:39 AM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: You still keep your gains. The losses are paper losses only. At the end of the day you still have your realized losses and the positions you had before. The only other thing you have to account for is any movement in the stocks you sold to harvest losses.

hmmm... assuming you can get back in near the price at which you sold, I suppose that would work. It's not a strategy that grows wealth over time though nor is it likely to be reproduceable for a decade. Your net worth remains stagnant at best - it just allows you to take some profits for income and live off of them while avoiding. In order to have no reportable taxable income, you'd have to always have your losses offset your gains. That sort of accuracy is virtually impossible so you'd likely wind up losing money year over year in terms of net worth


Eh its not that hard. Its actually common practice to harvest losses this way. Romney's taxable income is a fraction of his net worth. Someone with that much in assets could easily find enough unrealized losses in their portfolio to harvest and offset their investment income. There's no iron clad way of saying thats what he did or thats how he got to pay no taxes, but even if thats not the whole picture I guarantee you he did it.
 
2012-08-03 11:59:43 AM

Skleenar: What is the big deal about Obama's college transcripts? Why would anyone (besides a GOP shill, I mean) care what was in them? How could you make the leap there there is some sort of equivalency here (or did I parenthetically answer my own question?)?.


Minority Affirmative Action getting Obama into college == Bad.

Mormon Affirmative Action getting a Mass. businessman the 2002 Olympics job == Good.
 
2012-08-03 12:01:27 PM

Captain Dan: A: Because it was to his political advantage to do so. He was running against Lyndon Johnson, one of the most financially corrupt politicians in American history (LBJ used his political influence to amass ~$100 million while in the Senate, without any side business ventures), and wanted to highlight an issue that he perceived to be to his advantage.

Mitt Romney obviously feels that it's not to his political advantage to release the same number of tax returns. The outcome is different, but the reasoning is the same.



Granted, during Romney Sr's run, it was a gimmick designed to gain an advantage over a shady appearing rival . But in the subsequent decades, it has become SOP. There may no longer be an advantage to be gained by releasing the records, but there is definitely a disadvantage to withholding them. Now, he appears to be the shady one. For someone that has been campaigning for as long as he has been, he's not very good at it.
 
2012-08-03 12:02:00 PM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: CPennypacker: You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money

Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?


CP left out 1/2 of the equation. Say you own 1 AAPL at $200 and 10 MSFT at $30. If MSFT goes to $31 and you sell it, you've realized $10 in cap gains. At the same time assume AAPL has gone to $190. If you sell it you have offset your gain (which has been liquidated and is ready for spending) and owe nothing in taxes. If you wait 30 days and AAPL is still at $190, you buy it back and are in the same position you started but with the $10 in tax free spending money from the MSFT sale.

It is certainly something that can be done but I just don't think it is a likely candidate for avoiding paying taxes for 10 years. It's difficult to pull off and more likely a move of opportunity rather than design
 
2012-08-03 12:02:20 PM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: CPennypacker: You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money

Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?


You bought the stock for 200. You sold it for 190

Now you have $190 and one less share of stock

Now you buy it back for the $190. You have the same cash you had before and the same number of shares.

But you get to claim a $10 loss against your gains

Awesome, isn't it?
 
2012-08-03 12:02:31 PM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?


Because capital gains/losses are only realized when you sell them. If you buy a stock for $10, and it skyrockets in value to $100, you don't pay gains on that. Vice versa, if you buy a stock for $100 and it plummets to $10, you don't get to claim losses on it.

This strategy is to take stocks that have gone down, sell/rebuy them and get the loss actualized while keeping the same stock. You buy for $100, it plummets to $10, you claim $90 in losses against income elsewhere. Without the selling/rebuying, the $90 in losses doesn't exist.
 
2012-08-03 12:02:56 PM

skullkrusher: The Dog Ate The Constitution: CPennypacker: You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money

Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?

CP left out 1/2 of the equation. Say you own 1 AAPL at $200 and 10 MSFT at $30. If MSFT goes to $31 and you sell it, you've realized $10 in cap gains. At the same time assume AAPL has gone to $190. If you sell it you have offset your gain (which has been liquidated and is ready for spending) and owe nothing in taxes. If you wait 30 days and AAPL is still at $190, you buy it back and are in the same position you started but with the $10 in tax free spending money from the MSFT sale.

It is certainly something that can be done but I just don't think it is a likely candidate for avoiding paying taxes for 10 years. It's difficult to pull off and more likely a move of opportunity rather than design


I dunno. If you've got the money to hire the people, and the assets to make it cost-effective...
 
2012-08-03 12:03:13 PM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: You still keep your gains. The losses are paper losses only. At the end of the day you still have your realized losses and the positions you had before. The only other thing you have to account for is any movement in the stocks you sold to harvest losses.

hmmm... assuming you can get back in near the price at which you sold, I suppose that would work. It's not a strategy that grows wealth over time though nor is it likely to be reproduceable for a decade. Your net worth remains stagnant at best - it just allows you to take some profits for income and live off of them while avoiding. In order to have no reportable taxable income, you'd have to always have your losses offset your gains. That sort of accuracy is virtually impossible so you'd likely wind up losing money year over year in terms of net worth

Eh its not that hard. Its actually common practice to harvest losses this way. Romney's taxable income is a fraction of his net worth. Someone with that much in assets could easily find enough unrealized losses in their portfolio to harvest and offset their investment income. There's no iron clad way of saying thats what he did or thats how he got to pay no taxes, but even if thats not the whole picture I guarantee you he did it.


I don't see it as a long term strategy for wealth building but yeah, it can work.
 
2012-08-03 12:03:15 PM
Release your tax records already, biatch!

Everyone is doing it, you're the only asshole that hasn't, Mittens!

You can whine, biatch, piss and moan all you want. At the end of the day, all that matters is whether or not you released your tax records.
 
2012-08-03 12:03:48 PM
I didn't just make this up its standard practice
 
2012-08-03 12:04:28 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Skleenar: Since we're playing the "college transcripts = tax returns" game, what precedent is there for the release of presidential college transcripts?

why does precedent matter? this isn't a legal issue.


Interesting. If it isn't because this is a normal expectation of a president, you can surely provide me with the special reason for this special concern in Obama's case.

Besides, 0bama broke precedent when he decided to opt out of public funding of his campaign in 2008. That had huge implications beyond any whining about Mitt's taxes.

So....another unrelated thing is somehow equivalent? Are you sure you have enough potassium in your diet to ensure proper synapse firing?
 
2012-08-03 12:04:45 PM

Captain Dan: Lord Dimwit: Y'all went crazy about Obama's "long-form birth certificate" - something that no prior President had ever released publicly.

Now, Mitt won't release his tax returns - something that every Presidential candidate back to Mitt's father has done - and y'all are saying that it's okay.,

So...yeah. I would be flabbergasted if just once a Republican would admit that maybe their side is doing something just a teeny bit hypocritical.

I'm a Republican. I think birtherism is nuts, the manifestation of an irrational hatred of Obama and liberals. If you hate a person or group enough, you can believe any conspiracy about them.

This strain of thinking isn't limited to Obama. Irrational conspiracies regarding Bill & Hillary Clinton abounded in the 1990s. The only difference now is that Fox News, partisan blogs, and email are catapulting the misinformation more efficiently.

The Romney tax issue is as conspiratorial and politically insular as Birtherism. All it lacks is a catchy name.


I was with you up until the last part. There are several important differences here:

* The President had released his state-certified birth certificate, which was legally sufficient for all purposes, but people kept freaking out. Romney has not released tax returns for years in which there are legitimate questions (such as whether or not he was employed at Bain when he claimed not to be). With his SEC filings, there are actual questions about this period of time. There is no contradictory evidence about Obama's birth (and tons of corroborating evidence), while there is contradictory evidence of Romney's employment status and income.

* The releasing of major-party Presidential candidates' tax returns has become standard practice - a practice which Romney is flouting. He has released fewer years' returns than any Presidential candidate in modern history. The complaints about how Kerry's wife didn't release her returns is pure deflection, by the way, since no one is asking for Romney's wife's returns.

* No one is saying that Romney legally must release his tax records - they are his private information and it is certainly his right to keep it private. However, considering taxes - especially his supposed high rates - are a fundamental piece of his candidacy, it seems a bit hypocritical to not illustrate the point. When the President released his birth certificate, it could have been argued that he was legally obliged to do so. He did it, but he was still harassed for years, even now, by the Republican establishment.
 
2012-08-03 12:04:58 PM

qorkfiend: skullkrusher: The Dog Ate The Constitution: CPennypacker: You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money

Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?

CP left out 1/2 of the equation. Say you own 1 AAPL at $200 and 10 MSFT at $30. If MSFT goes to $31 and you sell it, you've realized $10 in cap gains. At the same time assume AAPL has gone to $190. If you sell it you have offset your gain (which has been liquidated and is ready for spending) and owe nothing in taxes. If you wait 30 days and AAPL is still at $190, you buy it back and are in the same position you started but with the $10 in tax free spending money from the MSFT sale.

It is certainly something that can be done but I just don't think it is a likely candidate for avoiding paying taxes for 10 years. It's difficult to pull off and more likely a move of opportunity rather than design

I dunno. If you've got the money to hire the people, and the assets to make it cost-effective...


anyone can do it. It's a pretty simple thing in terms of tax filing. TurboTax will even calculate it for you :)
If it were a sound strategy and an easily reproducable method for generating tax free income, there would be no super-wealthy people paying income taxes.
 
2012-08-03 12:05:07 PM

qorkfiend: Yes, but there's clearly no advantage to keeping the returns hidden, either. So Romney believes there is a greater advantage to keeping them hidden than releasing them; this inevitably leads to speculation as to why it is more beneficial for Romney to keep them hidden.


Mitt Romney is a very smart guy, smarter than anyone posting on Fark at the least. He's obviously calculated that the speculation over his tax returns is less harmful than what might happen if he did release them. [He might decide to release that information, but not because "it's the right thing." He'll do so only if it's the smart move.]

My guess is that he paid very little income tax, because like most wealthy people the majority of his earnings came from capital gains. Any educated person would understand this, but most people are financially illiterate, and could be swayed by misleading Democratic claims that "Romney paid less [income] taxes than you did!"

You might scoff, but some dipshiat undecided voter would eat it up.
 
2012-08-03 12:05:16 PM

skullkrusher: friday13: Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.

To THIS DAY I STILL have no idea if you are a troll or not...

would be a bold quid pro quo on Mittens' part. Tax returns in exchange for BO's college transcripts and scholarly publications. Though, I suspect that Mitt's returns are quite a bit more damning than BO's transcripts so it won't happen.


Romney hasn't released either. 2-for-1 is hardly fair. Romney would have to release his tax returns *and* his own college transcripts to catch up.
 
2012-08-03 12:06:20 PM

CPennypacker: The Dog Ate The Constitution: CPennypacker: You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money

Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?

You bought the stock for 200. You sold it for 190

Now you have $190 and one less share of stock

Now you buy it back for the $190. You have the same cash you had before and the same number of shares.

But you get to claim a $10 loss against your gains

Awesome, isn't it?


sprawl15: The Dog Ate The Constitution: Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?

Because capital gains/losses are only realized when you sell them. If you buy a stock for $10, and it skyrockets in value to $100, you don't pay gains on that. Vice versa, if you buy a stock for $100 and it plummets to $10, you don't get to claim losses on it.

This strategy is to take stocks that have gone down, sell/rebuy them and get the loss actualized while keeping the same stock. You buy for $100, it plummets to $10, you claim $90 in losses against income elsewhere. Without the selling/rebuying, the $90 in losses doesn't exist.


Interesting, thanks.
 
2012-08-03 12:06:34 PM

Skleenar: Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous

What is the big deal about Obama's college transcripts? Why would anyone (besides a GOP shill, I mean) care what was in them? How could you make the leap there there is some sort of equivalency here (or did I parenthetically answer my own question?)?.


I think it is an offshoot of the 2004 election.

The talking point was that Bush was an idiot and Kerry was a New England intellectual elite.

Bush's transcripts get leaked....see, see, we were right, look at those terrible grades.

Kerry's transcripts get leaked...oops, he did slightly worse in college than Bush.

Oh, same with Gore also, when people saw that his grades didn't fit the narrative of how smart he was supposed to be.
 
2012-08-03 12:06:42 PM

Captain Dan: Lord Dimwit: Y'all went crazy about Obama's "long-form birth certificate" - something that no prior President had ever released publicly.

Now, Mitt won't release his tax returns - something that every Presidential candidate back to Mitt's father has done - and y'all are saying that it's okay.,

So...yeah. I would be flabbergasted if just once a Republican would admit that maybe their side is doing something just a teeny bit hypocritical.

I'm a Republican. I think birtherism is nuts, the manifestation of an irrational hatred of Obama and liberals. If you hate a person or group enough, you can believe any conspiracy about them.

This strain of thinking isn't limited to Obama. Irrational conspiracies regarding Bill & Hillary Clinton abounded in the 1990s. The only difference now is that Fox News, partisan blogs, and email are catapulting the misinformation more efficiently.

The Romney tax issue is as conspiratorial and politically insular as Birtherism. All it lacks is a catchy name.


You sir, are delusional.

Birthers say there is no proof they can accept. That no matter what proof they are given, it won't be enough to convince them, because they know in their heart of hearts that TaxFarta is a Kenyin Mooslim.

People who want to see the tax returns just want to see them. We'll accept that they are real if he says they are. What we won't accept is Romney's word that there is nothing in there we deserve to see.
 
2012-08-03 12:06:42 PM

Captain Dan: qorkfiend: Yes, but there's clearly no advantage to keeping the returns hidden, either. So Romney believes there is a greater advantage to keeping them hidden than releasing them; this inevitably leads to speculation as to why it is more beneficial for Romney to keep them hidden.

Mitt Romney is a very smart guy, smarter than anyone posting on Fark at the least. He's obviously calculated that the speculation over his tax returns is less harmful than what might happen if he did release them. [He might decide to release that information, but not because "it's the right thing." He'll do so only if it's the smart move.]

My guess is that he paid very little income tax, because like most wealthy people the majority of his earnings came from capital gains. Any educated person would understand this, but most people are financially illiterate, and could be swayed by misleading Democratic claims that "Romney paid less [income] taxes than you did!"

You might scoff, but some dipshiat undecided voter would eat it up.


And it's irrelevant as to whether or not that's a 'good' thing or not. Paying little in taxes sorta cuts the legs out from underneath your assertion that 'taxes are too high!'
 
2012-08-03 12:07:47 PM

Linoleum_Blownapart: skullkrusher: friday13: Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.

To THIS DAY I STILL have no idea if you are a troll or not...

would be a bold quid pro quo on Mittens' part. Tax returns in exchange for BO's college transcripts and scholarly publications. Though, I suspect that Mitt's returns are quite a bit more damning than BO's transcripts so it won't happen.

Romney hasn't released either. 2-for-1 is hardly fair. Romney would have to release his tax returns *and* his own college transcripts to catch up.


and birf certificates from a real state like Michigan and not a bullshiat one like Hawaii
 
2012-08-03 12:07:53 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: But in the subsequent decades, it has become SOP.


The guy who got 19% of the vote in 1992 would disagree with you.
 
2012-08-03 12:08:20 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: I think it is an offshoot of the 2004 election.


Except that Obama graduated with honors from Harvard Law. So I don't think he has the same problem as those guys.
 
2012-08-03 12:08:44 PM
Also, for the record, I still haven't seen Romney's long-form birth certificate.
 
2012-08-03 12:09:20 PM

Rann Xerox: LOL!!!! ♪ Geor-gie Tirebiter..... ♫

Good times!



You sound old. At least you would if I could get this damned hearing aid to go loud enough to hear you. Bel-Tone my ass.
 
2012-08-03 12:09:35 PM
 
2012-08-03 12:09:40 PM
As much as I would like to believe this story, it can't possibly be true. Here's why. Let's assume for a moment that the story about McCain seeing Mitten's returns and rejecting him is true. A secret like this, if true, was bound to come out eventually. I find it very hard to believe that McCain himself, wouldn't have said to RNC leaders, "Listen, this guy will be a disaster if you let him get close to the nomination." There is just no way he paid zero taxes for 10 years. No way.
 
2012-08-03 12:10:41 PM

skullkrusher: The Dog Ate The Constitution: CPennypacker: You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money

Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?

CP left out 1/2 of the equation. Say you own 1 AAPL at $200 and 10 MSFT at $30. If MSFT goes to $31 and you sell it, you've realized $10 in cap gains. At the same time assume AAPL has gone to $190. If you sell it you have offset your gain (which has been liquidated and is ready for spending) and owe nothing in taxes. If you wait 30 days and AAPL is still at $190, you buy it back and are in the same position you started but with the $10 in tax free spending money from the MSFT sale.

It is certainly something that can be done but I just don't think it is a likely candidate for avoiding paying taxes for 10 years. It's difficult to pull off and more likely a move of opportunity rather than design


I didn't see your post until just now, otherwise I would have included it in my previous "Thanks" I also just realized I didn't follow the conversation from the start, otherwise I would have seen the mention of offsetting. Thanks.
 
2012-08-03 12:11:45 PM
so what laws are we asserting that Romney broke?
 
2012-08-03 12:11:59 PM

Close2TheEdge: As much as I would like to believe this story, it can't possibly be true. Here's why. Let's assume for a moment that the story about McCain seeing Mitten's returns and rejecting him is true. A secret like this, if true, was bound to come out eventually. I find it very hard to believe that McCain himself, wouldn't have said to RNC leaders, "Listen, this guy will be a disaster if you let him get close to the nomination." There is just no way he paid zero taxes for 10 years. No way.


Of course he didn't. BUT, that doesn't matter. For Romney to disprove it, he'll have to release his tax records.
 
2012-08-03 12:12:12 PM
As to the claim (offered by multiple posters) that releasing tax returns is S.O.P.:

So what? If following S.O.P. if harmful to Romney's campaign, he'd be a fool to do so. There's no legal requirement to release tax returns, and there's nothing intrinsically good about "following procedure" except for the vague conservative comfort it instills.
 
2012-08-03 12:12:45 PM

Captain Dan: qorkfiend: Yes, but there's clearly no advantage to keeping the returns hidden, either. So Romney believes there is a greater advantage to keeping them hidden than releasing them; this inevitably leads to speculation as to why it is more beneficial for Romney to keep them hidden.

Mitt Romney is a very smart guy, smarter than anyone posting on Fark at the least. He's obviously calculated that the speculation over his tax returns is less harmful than what might happen if he did release them. [He might decide to release that information, but not because "it's the right thing." He'll do so only if it's the smart move.]

My guess is that he paid very little income tax, because like most wealthy people the majority of his earnings came from capital gains. Any educated person would understand this, but most people are financially illiterate, and could be swayed by misleading Democratic claims that "Romney paid less [income] taxes than you did!"

You might scoff, but some dipshiat undecided voter would eat it up.


Kinda like "OBAMA IS GONNA TAKE AWAY ALL YER' GUNS!"

You mean bullshiat like that?
 
2012-08-03 12:13:02 PM

The Dog Ate The Constitution: skullkrusher: The Dog Ate The Constitution: CPennypacker: You have one share of apple you bought at 200. Right now its 190. Sell it, then 30 days later buy it back. Ideally the stock hasn't moved or it has gone down. Now you have the same position you had before, a $10 realized loss and you didn't actually lose any money

Could you explain to me why there's no actual loss of money? At the time of buyback, aren't you repurchasing the share of Apple with $10 less than if you had never sold the stock?

CP left out 1/2 of the equation. Say you own 1 AAPL at $200 and 10 MSFT at $30. If MSFT goes to $31 and you sell it, you've realized $10 in cap gains. At the same time assume AAPL has gone to $190. If you sell it you have offset your gain (which has been liquidated and is ready for spending) and owe nothing in taxes. If you wait 30 days and AAPL is still at $190, you buy it back and are in the same position you started but with the $10 in tax free spending money from the MSFT sale.

It is certainly something that can be done but I just don't think it is a likely candidate for avoiding paying taxes for 10 years. It's difficult to pull off and more likely a move of opportunity rather than design

I didn't see your post until just now, otherwise I would have included it in my previous "Thanks" I also just realized I didn't follow the conversation from the start, otherwise I would have seen the mention of offsetting. Thanks.


farking ingrate :)
 
2012-08-03 12:13:06 PM

skullkrusher: It is certainly something that can be done but I just don't think it is a likely candidate for avoiding paying taxes for 10 years. It's difficult to pull off and more likely a move of opportunity rather than design


Romney didn't take a salary as governor, he even paid for his own travel. After he left Bain, besides capital gains, not sure where his income would come from. I doubt he was paid for his work on the Olympics. It isn't as if he needed the money.

Any good money manager would make sure that any sales of stocks would not result in a tax bill.
 
2012-08-03 12:13:52 PM

Captain Dan: qorkfiend: Yes, but there's clearly no advantage to keeping the returns hidden, either. So Romney believes there is a greater advantage to keeping them hidden than releasing them; this inevitably leads to speculation as to why it is more beneficial for Romney to keep them hidden.

Mitt Romney is a very smart guy, smarter than anyone posting on Fark at the least. He's obviously calculated that the speculation over his tax returns is less harmful than what might happen if he did release them. [He might decide to release that information, but not because "it's the right thing." He'll do so only if it's the smart move.]

My guess is that he paid very little income tax, because like most wealthy people the majority of his earnings came from capital gains. Any educated person would understand this, but most people are financially illiterate, and could be swayed by misleading Democratic claims that "Romney paid less [income] taxes than you did!"

You might scoff, but some dipshiat undecided voter would eat it up.


That's my point. He's calculated that speculation is better than releasing them. As the speculation gets wilder and the calculation remains valid, the question of "What's in those returns, exactly, and why does he need to keep it hidden?" starts to pop up, and often. This does not qualify as a smart strategy; the more you keep them hidden, the more people want to know what you're keeping hidden and why.

They won't make that claim. The claim that has been made and will continue to be made by the campaign is that Romney paid a lower rate than you did. This claim has the added bonus of being accurate.
 
2012-08-03 12:15:19 PM

cgw_niu: so what laws are we asserting that Romney broke?


None. What we're asserting is that he's a dickbag that we shouldn't put in charge of the country. We're just speculating that he may have broken some laws (specifically, reporting all your income, even the bit hidden in swiss bank accounts).
 
2012-08-03 12:16:41 PM

qorkfiend: Captain Dan: qorkfiend: Yes, but there's clearly no advantage to keeping the returns hidden, either. So Romney believes there is a greater advantage to keeping them hidden than releasing them; this inevitably leads to speculation as to why it is more beneficial for Romney to keep them hidden.

Mitt Romney is a very smart guy, smarter than anyone posting on Fark at the least. He's obviously calculated that the speculation over his tax returns is less harmful than what might happen if he did release them. [He might decide to release that information, but not because "it's the right thing." He'll do so only if it's the smart move.]

My guess is that he paid very little income tax, because like most wealthy people the majority of his earnings came from capital gains. Any educated person would understand this, but most people are financially illiterate, and could be swayed by misleading Democratic claims that "Romney paid less [income] taxes than you did!"

You might scoff, but some dipshiat undecided voter would eat it up.

That's my point. He's calculated that speculation is better than releasing them. As the speculation gets wilder and the calculation remains valid, the question of "What's in those returns, exactly, and why does he need to keep it hidden?" starts to pop up, and often. This does not qualify as a smart strategy; the more you keep them hidden, the more people want to know what you're keeping hidden and why.

They won't make that claim. The claim that has been made and will continue to be made by the campaign is that Romney paid a lower rate than you did. This claim has the added bonus of being accurate.


More than that, Reid made an excellent move by going All-In with the speculation.

Rather than sit back and let the speculation slowly build from 'bad' to 'omfg he paid no taxes for a decade!', he pushed it straight to the worst speculation possible.

It was a great move that forces Romney to either endure 'that' nugget of painful speculation that WON'T GO AWAY for the next three months, or release his tax records.
 
2012-08-03 12:17:50 PM

cgw_niu: so what laws are we asserting that Romney broke?


img99.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-03 12:18:00 PM

incendi: cgw_niu: so what laws are we asserting that Romney broke?

None. What we're asserting is that he's a dickbag that we shouldn't put in charge of the country. We're just speculating that he may have broken some laws (specifically, reporting all your income, even the bit hidden in swiss bank accounts).




So you guys are just idiots then.


/I know, "Welcome to Fark"
 
2012-08-03 12:18:14 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes.

Income is not the same as wealth.

Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.


So, basically Romney has been sitting on his ass since he resigned from Bain living off of savings? That's a fine record of job creation this past decade.
 
2012-08-03 12:18:31 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: skullkrusher: It is certainly something that can be done but I just don't think it is a likely candidate for avoiding paying taxes for 10 years. It's difficult to pull off and more likely a move of opportunity rather than design

Romney didn't take a salary as governor, he even paid for his own travel. After he left Bain, besides capital gains, not sure where his income would come from. I doubt he was paid for his work on the Olympics. It isn't as if he needed the money.

Any good money manager would make sure that any sales of stocks would not result in a tax bill.




Wouldn't it be easier if he'd just release those returns, instead of you having to make up what theoretically may have occurred? I see though that you're presuming that yes, indeed, he has a 0% tax rate.
 
2012-08-03 12:19:04 PM

Skleenar: tenpoundsofcheese: Skleenar: Since we're playing the "college transcripts = tax returns" game, what precedent is there for the release of presidential college transcripts?

why does precedent matter? this isn't a legal issue.

Besides, 0bama broke precedent when he decided to opt out of public funding of his campaign in 2008. That had huge implications beyond any whining about Mitt's taxes.

So....another unrelated thing is somehow equivalent? Are you sure you have enough potassium in your diet to ensure proper synapse firing?


Wait, you were whining about precedent. Opting out of public funding has far more implications than whether someone didn't legally have to pay taxes. Did you whine about that precedent-breaking move by 0bama?

This isn't a legal issue, so citing precedent is irrelevant.

Ohhh, synapse reference. Oh no, I am dealing with an intellectual!!
 
2012-08-03 12:19:13 PM

Close2TheEdge: As much as I would like to believe this story, it can't possibly be true. Here's why. Let's assume for a moment that the story about McCain seeing Mitten's returns and rejecting him is true. A secret like this, if true, was bound to come out eventually. I find it very hard to believe that McCain himself, wouldn't have said to RNC leaders, "Listen, this guy will be a disaster if you let him get close to the nomination." There is just no way he paid zero taxes for 10 years. No way.


The story isn't true - both McCain and Steve Schmidt have come out and said that they looked at 23 years of Romney's tax returns and saw nothing disqualifying in them.

Romney wasn't picked as VP in 2008 because of taxes, he wasn't picked as VP in 2008 because he and McCain didn't get along that well and because McCain needed a Hail Mary play to try and catch up to Obama. Which is why he went with Palin instead of the safer Pawlenty.
 
2012-08-03 12:19:25 PM

cgw_niu: incendi: cgw_niu: so what laws are we asserting that Romney broke?

None. What we're asserting is that he's a dickbag that we shouldn't put in charge of the country. We're just speculating that he may have broken some laws (specifically, reporting all your income, even the bit hidden in swiss bank accounts).



So you guys are just idiots then.


/I know, "Welcome to Fark"


I love how "He's not a criminal!" is good enough for GOPers when it comes to selecting someone to be President.
 
2012-08-03 12:19:34 PM

qorkfiend: They won't make that claim. The claim that has been made and will continue to be made by the campaign is that Romney paid a lower rate than you did. This claim has the added bonus of being accurate.


If you don't think that Democrats will misleading conflate lower tax rates with "less in taxes," you are too innocent for politics.

Close2TheEdge: Kinda like "OBAMA IS GONNA TAKE AWAY ALL YER' GUNS!"

You mean bullshiat like that?


Exactly. It's shameful bullshiat no matter which side is doing it. The response to partisan bullshiat should be: "that's atrocious behavior, and should be mocked," not "we need to do the same, except bullshiattier."
 
2012-08-03 12:20:10 PM

StanleyPuff: /Mitt's been too high profile for too long...



People are giving Mitt way too much credit over this "he's been running for Pres for so long - he can't be that stupid."

OF COURSE HE CAN BE THAT STUPID. He does not view the world the way we do. He is a filthy rich guy surrounded his entire life by other filthy rich people. To them, hiding money away in off-shore tax havens, exploiting loopholes, etc. -- it's all standard operating procedure. And (probably) none of it's illegal.

The guy is also likely an extreme narcissist -- if you've never dealt with one of those - a REAL one - it's a trip. Nothing they do is ever wrong. To him, not paying taxes for 10 years would be a WIN on such an extreme level that how could it be perceived as wrong? Him and all his buddies are high-fiving over how wonderful they are at getting richer and paying as little as possible back into the system.

In short, I don't think Rmoney is capable of comprehending that this could be as big of a problem for him as it's proving to be.
 
2012-08-03 12:21:21 PM
Maybe this is like the CBS fiasco with Bush and his National Guard Service.

1) Report that he never paid taxes using a shiatty source.
2) Blogs et al. tear the source to shreds
3) Accusation is retracted and issue dies.
 
2012-08-03 12:21:35 PM

Infernalist: I love how "He's not a criminal!" "You can't prove he's a criminal!" is good enough for GOPers when it comes to selecting someone to be President.


FTFY.
 
2012-08-03 12:22:20 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Wait, you were whining about precedent. Opting out of public funding has far more implications than whether someone didn't legally have to pay taxes. Did you whine about that precedent-breaking move by 0bama?


*** ATTEMPTED SUBJECT CHANGE IGNORED ***
 
2012-08-03 12:22:27 PM

Close2TheEdge: A secret like this, if true, was bound to come out eventually.



It has come out. It's why we're all talking about it right now.
 
2012-08-03 12:22:32 PM

Captain Dan: My guess is that he paid very little income tax, because like most wealthy people the majority of his earnings came from capital gains.


The fact that this makes a difference is part of the problem. Romney has been arguing that the rich should have a lower tax rate when they already pay a lower one on the vast majority of their income thanks to that very distinction (among other tricks and loopholes they lobby for).
 
2012-08-03 12:22:57 PM

shower_in_my_socks: In short, I don't think Rmoney is capable of comprehending.

 
2012-08-03 12:23:23 PM

WombatControl: The story isn't true - both McCain and Steve Schmidt have come out and said that they looked at 23 years of Romney's tax returns and saw nothing disqualifying in them.


Link

Schmidht never actually saw them. McCain is never going to badmouth a GOP candidate for president so that point is moot.
 
2012-08-03 12:23:41 PM

Infernalist: I love how "He's not a criminal!" is good enough for GOPers when it comes to selecting someone to be President.


Hey, as long as Romney didn't directly, specifically kill any of his family members and has an R next to his name what more do you need?
 
2012-08-03 12:24:02 PM

Captain Dan: qorkfiend: They won't make that claim. The claim that has been made and will continue to be made by the campaign is that Romney paid a lower rate than you did. This claim has the added bonus of being accurate.

If you don't think that Democrats will misleading conflate lower tax rates with "less in taxes," you are too innocent for politics.

Close2TheEdge: Kinda like "OBAMA IS GONNA TAKE AWAY ALL YER' GUNS!"

You mean bullshiat like that?

Exactly. It's shameful bullshiat no matter which side is doing it. The response to partisan bullshiat should be: "that's atrocious behavior, and should be mocked," not "we need to do the same, except bullshiattier."


I agree, except for two things:

(1) There's a fundamental difference between the birth certificate issue and Romney's taxes. There are legitimate questions about Romney's employment history with two different, contradictory stories each with supporting evidence. There was no such dispute with the President's birth certificate.

(2) One side has been doing it for a whole hell of a lot longer and over things that are a lot more...crazy. Saying that Obama was not born in Hawaii despite mountains of evidence to the contrary is not the same as saying "Mitt paid no taxes" when there is actually no evidence either way. Saying that Obama is gonna take your guns and impose Sharia law is demonstrably false, whereas saying Mitt paid either no taxes or far less than his income should have warranted is believable. As for the crazy stuff spewing out of the Right, there have been elected officials at all levels of the government saying those things, so don't try to say that it was just crazy bloggers.
 
2012-08-03 12:25:20 PM

djkutch: tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes.

Income is not the same as wealth.

Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.

So, basically Romney has been sitting on his ass since he resigned from Bain living off of savings? That's a fine record of job creation this past decade.


uhhh, he was Governor (didn't take a salary) and ran the Olympics (don't know if he got a salary, but I doubt it).
 
2012-08-03 12:26:52 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: not sure where his income would come from


Yeah no one knows either.
 
2012-08-03 12:27:24 PM
If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.
 
2012-08-03 12:27:38 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Close2TheEdge: A secret like this, if true, was bound to come out eventually.


It has come out. It's why we're all talking about it right now.


Well, yes, but it's still only in the realm of speculation. Now, if th

Captain Dan: qorkfiend: They won't make that claim. The claim that has been made and will continue to be made by the campaign is that Romney paid a lower rate than you did. This claim has the added bonus of being accurate.

If you don't think that Democrats will misleading conflate lower tax rates with "less in taxes," you are too innocent for politics.

Close2TheEdge: Kinda like "OBAMA IS GONNA TAKE AWAY ALL YER' GUNS!"

You mean bullshiat like that?

Exactly. It's shameful bullshiat no matter which side is doing it. The response to partisan bullshiat should be: "that's atrocious behavior, and should be mocked," not "we need to do the same, except bullshiattier."


Why not do both? Seems a pretty effective way to mock it to me.
 
2012-08-03 12:28:04 PM

Captain Dan: Lord Dimwit: Y'all went crazy about Obama's "long-form birth certificate" - something that no prior President had ever released publicly.

Now, Mitt won't release his tax returns - something that every Presidential candidate back to Mitt's father has done - and y'all are saying that it's okay.,

So...yeah. I would be flabbergasted if just once a Republican would admit that maybe their side is doing something just a teeny bit hypocritical.

I'm a Republican. I think birtherism is nuts, the manifestation of an irrational hatred of Obama and liberals. If you hate a person or group enough, you can believe any conspiracy about them.

This strain of thinking isn't limited to Obama. Irrational conspiracies regarding Bill & Hillary Clinton abounded in the 1990s. The only difference now is that Fox News, partisan blogs, and email are catapulting the misinformation more efficiently.

The Romney tax issue is as conspiratorial and politically insular as Birtherism. All it lacks is a catchy name.


Well there's also the fact that a major part of romney's platform has to do with cutting taxes for people like him. Wouldn't it make sense to see how awful his tax rate actually is if he's going to make the claim that it's too high?

The answer is yes capt shill
 
2012-08-03 12:28:12 PM

Skleenar: tenpoundsofcheese: Skleenar: Since we're playing the "college transcripts = tax returns" game, what precedent is there for the release of presidential college transcripts?

why does precedent matter? this isn't a legal issue.

Besides, 0bama broke precedent when he decided to opt out of public funding of his campaign in 2008. That had huge implications beyond any whining about Mitt's taxes.

So....another unrelated thing is somehow equivalent? Are you sure you have enough potassium in your diet to ensure proper synapse firing?


oh, btw, you know that 0bama also broke precedent by not releasing his medical records, right?
The former drug user and smoker just released a 1 page letter from his doctor.
 
2012-08-03 12:29:00 PM

shower_in_my_socks: People are giving Mitt way too much credit over this "he's been running for Pres for so long - he can't be that stupid."

OF COURSE HE CAN BE THAT STUPID. He does not view the world the way we do. He is a filthy rich guy surrounded his entire life by other filthy rich people. To them, hiding money away in off-shore tax havens, exploiting loopholes, etc. -- it's all standard operating procedure. And (probably) none of it's illegal.


Mitt Romney is probably the most intelligent candidate to run for President since Jimmy Carter. He's farking smart. Unless you are using "stupid" to mean "disagreeable," you are as wrong as a person claiming that Obama was born in the Kenyan movie studio used to fake the moon landing.

The guy is also likely an extreme narcissist -- if you've never dealt with one of those - a REAL one - it's a trip. Nothing they do is ever wrong.

Jesus Christ. This is the mirror image of the Jerome Corsi claiming "Obama is a classic socialist. If you've never met one, you wouldn't see all the signs, but I do."

To him, not paying taxes for 10 years would be a WIN on such an extreme level that how could it be perceived as wrong? Him and all his buddies are high-fiving over how wonderful they are at getting richer and paying as little as possible back into the system.

It's true, I read it in "Protocols of the Elders of Bain."
 
2012-08-03 12:29:53 PM

Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.


And yet it is eating him alive
 
2012-08-03 12:29:54 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: skullkrusher: It is certainly something that can be done but I just don't think it is a likely candidate for avoiding paying taxes for 10 years. It's difficult to pull off and more likely a move of opportunity rather than design

Romney didn't take a salary as governor, he even paid for his own travel. After he left Bain, besides capital gains, not sure where his income would come from. I doubt he was paid for his work on the Olympics. It isn't as if he needed the money.

Any good money manager would make sure that any sales of stocks would not result in a tax bill.


More like 0lympics am I right?
 
2012-08-03 12:29:58 PM
How much is $600 in federal taxes on $23 million of income?

Oh yeah, an amount that you should go to prison for tax evasion. Especially when the deductions are as obviously illegal as the ones he listed in 2008, when he paid that much.
 
2012-08-03 12:30:12 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: djkutch: tenpoundsofcheese: This just in, if you have low income, you don't have to pay income taxes.

Income is not the same as wealth.

Someone worth $250M who doesn't draw a salary and doesn't have net stock gains and lives off of savings, won't pay any income taxes.

So, basically Romney has been sitting on his ass since he resigned from Bain living off of savings? That's a fine record of job creation this past decade.

uhhh, he was Governor (didn't take a salary) and ran the Olympics (don't know if he got a salary, but I doubt it).


...interest on $250 million dollars would be millions of dollars a year. Interest is income.

Unless, of course, you stash it overseas to avoid paying taxes on it and supporting the nation that made getting your fortune possible.
 
2012-08-03 12:31:04 PM

Captain Dan: As to the claim (offered by multiple posters) that releasing tax returns is S.O.P.:

So what? If following S.O.P. if harmful to Romney's campaign, he'd be a fool to do so. There's no legal requirement to release tax returns, and there's nothing intrinsically good about "following procedure" except for the vague conservative comfort it instills.


Well, there's the part about looking shady. that can't be good.
 
2012-08-03 12:31:12 PM

Lord Dimwit: ...interest on $250 million dollars would be millions of dollars a year. Interest is income.


it is not counted as income if it is tax free though
 
2012-08-03 12:31:31 PM

Captain Dan: Mitt Romney is probably the most intelligent candidate to run for President since Jimmy Carter. He's farking smart. Unless you are using "stupid" to mean "disagreeable," you are as wrong as a person claiming that Obama was born in the Kenyan movie studio used to fake the moon landing.


Not smart enough to get his taxes in order it would seem. Been running since 2006 and still sucks at it.
 
2012-08-03 12:32:31 PM

CPennypacker: And yet it is eating him alive


Yup.

By a 52 percent to 37 percent margin, more voters say they have an unfavorable than favorable view of Mitt Romney," according to Pew's analysis of the results. "The poll, conducted prior to Romney's recent overseas trip, represents the sixth consecutive survey over the past nine months in which his image has been in negative territory." Link
 
2012-08-03 12:34:49 PM

Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.


It's the same ammo Obama handed him with his returns. It's the same ammo every presidential candidate since Mitt's dad has freely given out. Romney isn't special and he shouldn't get special consideration just because he is afraid.
 
2012-08-03 12:36:35 PM
So are we all just going to pretend like anonymous didn't hack and retrieve 25 years of his tax returns? And if so, why?
 
2012-08-03 12:38:05 PM

HeartBurnKid: The fact that this makes a difference is part of the problem. Romney has been arguing that the rich should have a lower tax rate when they already pay a lower one on the vast majority of their income thanks to that very distinction (among other tricks and loopholes they lobby for).


For political reasons, Romney can't say what he probably really believes, but I'm guessing he doesn't believe that we're anywhere near the Laffer Curve inflection point. More likely, he thinks that income/corporate/capital gains taxes are inefficient ways to collect revenue, and he'd prefer to replace them with consumption taxes/carbon taxes/VAT.

I can't read his mind, but this is what most smart people believe, and Romney is one of them.
 
2012-08-03 12:38:15 PM
So GOP... how does it feel to support a tax-and-spend liberal who didn't pay his fair share as part of the 47%?
 
2012-08-03 12:38:35 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: oh, btw, you know that 0bama also broke precedent by not releasing his medical records, right?
The former drug user and smoker just released a 1 page letter from his doctor.



I didn't know that. And since you said so, I will never believe it, no matter what proof there might be.
 
2012-08-03 12:39:00 PM

justtray: So are we all just going to pretend like anonymous didn't hack and retrieve 25 years of his tax returns? And if so, why?


Pretty sure that was a parody article. There might even be some signs on the website that story came from.

Link
 
2012-08-03 12:40:25 PM

Dimensio: As I have stated previously: until President Obama releases his complete educational transcripts from kindergarten through college, admission applications for the same, his entire medical history, the entire medical history of his mother, the microfilm of his birth certificate and every passport that he has ever used ever, then requests for Mr. Romney's tax returns are not reasonable and hypocritical.


Until I touch the placenta with my own hands, this guy is a patsy
 
2012-08-03 12:41:39 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Skleenar: tenpoundsofcheese: Skleenar: Since we're playing the "college transcripts = tax returns" game, what precedent is there for the release of presidential college transcripts?

why does precedent matter? this isn't a legal issue.

Besides, 0bama broke precedent when he decided to opt out of public funding of his campaign in 2008. That had huge implications beyond any whining about Mitt's taxes.

So....another unrelated thing is somehow equivalent? Are you sure you have enough potassium in your diet to ensure proper synapse firing?

oh, btw, you know that 0bama also broke precedent by not releasing his medical records, right?
The former drug user and smoker just released a 1 page letter from his doctor.


Well then why don't you guys go ahead and make a big deal out of that and his college transcripts and we'll keep asking about romney's taxes and we'll see which of these actually matters to voters

It'll be tough for you though since it's Romney who keeps talking about the burdensome taxes the wealthy have to pay
 
2012-08-03 12:41:56 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: tenpoundsofcheese: oh, btw, you know that 0bama also broke precedent by not releasing his medical records, right?
The former drug user and smoker just released a 1 page letter from his doctor.


I didn't know that. And since you said so, I will never believe it, no matter what proof there might be.


The problem is that Obama's medical records were fairly simple, and summarized in that letter as "aside from a few minor childhood illnesses and that he smokes, he is in excellent health and has no known medical problems currently." There is nothing else to say. But because McCain released reams of documents about his own medical history - necessary because it was considerably more complicated - he's saying that if Obama didn't do the same, it's because he (Obama) is hiding something. Like the birth certificate thing, he's moving the goal posts and asking him to provide something that simply does not exist.
 
2012-08-03 12:42:50 PM

Captain Dan: Exactly. It's shameful bullshiat no matter which side is doing it. The response to partisan bullshiat should be: "that's atrocious behavior, and should be mocked," not "we need to do the same, except bullshiattier."



Except, of course, these situations are not really similar, because while Mitt has been caught hiding electorally relevant information in his tax returns before, there was no valid reason to accuse Obama of not being born in the US.
 
2012-08-03 12:43:37 PM

Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.


If he had released the records weeks or months ago, this would all be over. If he had released them even a couple of weeks back, and it showed that there is nothing there, this would be just a memory by now. His adamant refusal is what's fueling the speculation, and even if there ultimately proves to be nothing shady in them, they will be dissected with a much sharper scalpel than if he had not made an issue of them. It has escalated, by his own doing, from questions regarding his finances to questions regarding his judgement. He's letting his ego take charge of his decisions, and that may not be a good quality for a President to hold.
 
2012-08-03 12:44:29 PM
Romney and his wife contributed $1 million to the Olympics, and he donated to charity the $1.4 million in salary and severance payments he received for his three years as president and CEO. Link

So how much in taxes do you pay when you donate $2.4M to charity?



When you work as Gov for a dollar a year, what is your personal tax liability for that salary?


When Mitt Romney's father passed away in 1995, he left an inheritance to Mitt totaling $1 million. Romney turned around and donated that inheritance money to Brigham Young University for the George W. Romney School of Public Management. Link

How much does this lower your tax liability?

The fact is is that This man is extremely generous with HIS money. How much has Obama or Biden given to charity?
 
2012-08-03 12:44:41 PM

Halli: justtray: So are we all just going to pretend like anonymous didn't hack and retrieve 25 years of his tax returns? And if so, why?

Pretty sure that was a parody article. There might even be some signs on the website that story came from.

Link


I don't know. I wouldn't put it past Romney to convert to Judaism to improve his relations with Israel.
 
2012-08-03 12:44:42 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: oh, btw, you know that 0bama also broke precedent by not releasing his medical records, right?
The former drug user and smoker just released a 1 page letter from his doctor.


Then demand those, not the college transcripts.
 
2012-08-03 12:44:51 PM

odinsposse: Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.

It's the same ammo Obama handed him with his returns. It's the same ammo every presidential candidate since Mitt's dad has freely given out. Romney isn't special and he shouldn't get special consideration just because he is afraid.


that's not really true. Ford didn't release any returns, he just provided a summary. Nader didn't release, Carter only released 3 years, McCain only released 2 years, HW only released 3 years. Very few have released as many as George Romney did in 68. I think BO might be the only one, actually.
 
2012-08-03 12:46:08 PM

skullkrusher: odinsposse: Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.

It's the same ammo Obama handed him with his returns. It's the same ammo every presidential candidate since Mitt's dad has freely given out. Romney isn't special and he shouldn't get special consideration just because he is afraid.

that's not really true. Ford didn't release any returns, he just provided a summary. Nader didn't release, Carter only released 3 years, McCain only released 2 years, HW only released 3 years. Very few have released as many as George Romney did in 68. I think BO might be the only one, actually.


Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but no one cares about Nader. :)
 
2012-08-03 12:46:12 PM
pjmedia.com
 
2012-08-03 12:46:13 PM

qorkfiend: Lost Thought 00: Boxcutta: "Mr. Romney retroactively paid a 36% tax rate..."

What would make me the happiest is if Romney voluntarily pays the IRS $50-100 million or so it will take to get his effective tax rate up to "reasonable" levels, but then loses the election anyways.

I wonder if he could do it with campaign funds.

the change in his couch.

FTFY
 
2012-08-03 12:46:20 PM
Didn't someone once anonymously say that Harry Reid rape and murdered a girl in 1990. Not sure why he hasn't denied this.
 
2012-08-03 12:47:12 PM

soy_bomb: [pjmedia.com image 490x371]


I wasn't aware that the treasury secretary was running for the Presidency.
 
2012-08-03 12:47:45 PM

cgw_niu: The fact is is that This man is extremely generous with HIS money. How much has Obama or Biden given to charity?


I'm fairly sure you can find out by reviewing the returns that they have released. As far as Romney's charitable contributions, I guess we'll just have to take his word for it.
 
2012-08-03 12:48:01 PM

cgw_niu: Romney and his wife contributed $1 million to the Olympics, and he donated to charity the $1.4 million in salary and severance payments he received for his three years as president and CEO. Link

So how much in taxes do you pay when you donate $2.4M to charity?



When you work as Gov for a dollar a year, what is your personal tax liability for that salary?


When Mitt Romney's father passed away in 1995, he left an inheritance to Mitt totaling $1 million. Romney turned around and donated that inheritance money to Brigham Young University for the George W. Romney School of Public Management. Link

How much does this lower your tax liability?

The fact is is that This man is extremely generous with HIS money. How much has Obama or Biden given to charity?


Although it technically is a deductable donation, Romney gets no credit from me for donating money to his cult.
 
2012-08-03 12:48:23 PM

cgw_niu: Romney and his wife contributed $1 million to the Olympics, and he donated to charity the $1.4 million in salary and severance payments he received for his three years as president and CEO. Link

So how much in taxes do you pay when you donate $2.4M to charity?



When you work as Gov for a dollar a year, what is your personal tax liability for that salary?


When Mitt Romney's father passed away in 1995, he left an inheritance to Mitt totaling $1 million. Romney turned around and donated that inheritance money to Brigham Young University for the George W. Romney School of Public Management. Link

How much does this lower your tax liability?

The fact is is that This man is extremely generous with HIS money. How much has Obama or Biden given to charity?


Charitable donations cannot completely eliminate your tax liability, I'm pretty sure.

As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.
 
2012-08-03 12:49:37 PM

Lord Dimwit: skullkrusher: odinsposse: Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.

It's the same ammo Obama handed him with his returns. It's the same ammo every presidential candidate since Mitt's dad has freely given out. Romney isn't special and he shouldn't get special consideration just because he is afraid.

that's not really true. Ford didn't release any returns, he just provided a summary. Nader didn't release, Carter only released 3 years, McCain only released 2 years, HW only released 3 years. Very few have released as many as George Romney did in 68. I think BO might be the only one, actually.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but no one cares about Nader. :)


true but he was still a technically a candidate for President. Unsane at any speed
 
2012-08-03 12:51:18 PM
This issue is n

odinsposse: Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.

It's the same ammo Obama handed him with his returns. It's the same ammo every presidential candidate since Mitt's dad has freely given out. Romney isn't special and he shouldn't get special consideration just because he is afraid.


Not special, just legal. I don't agree with it, but he can do it if he wants. His opponents are demonizing the haves to get the votes of the have nots. At this time running against Obama and Axelrod & Co., releasing his returns isn't politically smart.
 
2012-08-03 12:51:56 PM

Lord Dimwit: As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.


affordablehousinginstitute.org
 
2012-08-03 12:52:52 PM
What was that bible story about tithing?

Something about how Jesus greatly praised and held up a poor woman as a fine example because she gave some piddling amount in comparison to the other tithers.

She gave far less than they did, but it was worth far more to her because she had less to give.

Now, as I understand it, Romney gave 13.8% of this income to charity...And he makes millions, if not billions.

And the President gave 14.2% of his income to charity and I think we can all agree that he makes far far less than Romney.

So. Who would Jesus hold up to praise if he were to choose between the two, based on their tithing?
 
2012-08-03 12:53:06 PM

Ford Perfect: releasing his returns isn't politically smart.


Withholding them isn't exactly a genius move.
 
2012-08-03 12:54:55 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: Withholding them isn't exactly a genius move.


And we're not even asking him to go all the way back to 1990, when he might have taken a tax credit for raping and murdering a girl.
 
2012-08-03 12:55:27 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: Ford Perfect: releasing his returns isn't politically smart.

Withholding them isn't exactly a genius move.


it is if they say he didn't pay any income taxes for 10 years or that he paid fines and back taxes for his Swiss account amensty
 
2012-08-03 12:56:03 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: Rann Xerox: LOL!!!! ♪ Geor-gie Tirebiter..... ♫

Good times!


You sound old. At least you would if I could get this damned hearing aid to go loud enough to hear you. Bel-Tone my ass.


An ear trumpet works a whole lot better for me and at half the cost.
 
2012-08-03 12:56:27 PM

Lord Dimwit: Charitable donations cannot completely eliminate your tax liability, I'm pretty sure.

As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.


There are a lot of tax exempt investments that will lower your tax liability and giving a lot to charity will take care of the rest. Remember that you do not get a 1-1 tax credit, so imagine how much you have to donate to clear your tax liability.


Yes, you are right. Obama's do give well to charity. They also give a lot to military charities and I take my hat off to them. However, Biden's charity is extremely laughable. So were the Clinton's back in the '90's
 
2012-08-03 12:56:55 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: Lord Dimwit: As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.

[affordablehousinginstitute.org image 320x225]


For the record, here's a reference: Link
 
2012-08-03 12:57:20 PM

Ford Perfect: This issue is nodinsposse: Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.

It's the same ammo Obama handed him with his returns. It's the same ammo every presidential candidate since Mitt's dad has freely given out. Romney isn't special and he shouldn't get special consideration just because he is afraid.

Not special, just legal. I don't agree with it, but he can do it if he wants. His opponents are demonizing the haves to get the votes of the have nots. At this time running against Obama and Axelrod & Co., releasing his returns isn't politically smart.


It is if there's something in there that's campaign-destroyingly bad. Smart money says that there's numerous things in that decade of tax returns..

1) Underreporting his income to the Mormon Church, resulting in paying less in tithing...

2) The tax Amnesty thing.

3) Connections to Bain when he swears he was retro-retired.

4) More connections to abortion-related companies, making serious profit off of dead babies.

5) Utilizing tax loopholes and shelters to avoid paying taxes at all for a number of years.

The best part is, no matter what it is, since he won't tell us, we'll just assume the worst, and our imaginations are amazing when it comes to imagining the sins of our leaders.
 
2012-08-03 12:57:50 PM
#1 He did not pay taxes.
#2 He did not commit a crime
#3 He wants the poor to pay more so the rich can pay less.
#3 That is the farking [figurative ]crime
 
2012-08-03 12:58:17 PM

cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: Charitable donations cannot completely eliminate your tax liability, I'm pretty sure.

As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.

There are a lot of tax exempt investments that will lower your tax liability and giving a lot to charity will take care of the rest. Remember that you do not get a 1-1 tax credit, so imagine how much you have to donate to clear your tax liability.


Yes, you are right. Obama's do give well to charity. They also give a lot to military charities and I take my hat off to them. However, Biden's charity is extremely laughable. So were the Clinton's back in the '90's


I will agree about Biden. I'm disappointed in his charitable giving, I'm sorry to say. I like the guy otherwise.
 
2012-08-03 12:58:17 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: Ford Perfect: releasing his returns isn't politically smart.

Withholding them isn't exactly a genius move.


You have to go into an election with the candidate you have, not the candidate you want.
 
2012-08-03 12:59:42 PM

Ford Perfect: Not special, just legal. I don't agree with it, but he can do it if he wants. His opponents are demonizing the haves to get the votes of the have nots. At this time running against Obama and Axelrod & Co., releasing his returns isn't politically smart.


Right. Romney believes his returns are more damaging than the speculation about them. Considering how vicious the speculation had gotten, his returns must contain something that Romney feels is incredibly embarrassing politically.
 
2012-08-03 01:00:16 PM

Ford Perfect: His opponents are demonizing the haves to get the votes of the have nots. At this time running against Obama and Axelrod & Co., releasing his returns isn't politically smart.


Technically, they're only "demonizing" the "haves" who want to pay a lower rate in taxes than the "have nots".
 
2012-08-03 01:00:35 PM
Just imagine this situation inversed..

Limbaugh would have spunked over the mike by now.
 
2012-08-03 01:00:52 PM

Lord Dimwit: More_Like_A_Stain: Lord Dimwit: As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.

[affordablehousinginstitute.org image 320x225]

For the record, here's a reference: Link


And if the Santorum's gave more to charities, they would have had a less ETR. The Romney's gave 13.9% of their income to charities and lowered their ETR. That is how it works.
 
2012-08-03 01:03:18 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.

"What did the rich people ever build for us?"

"Roads?"

"Nope"

"Bridges"

"Nope"


Cake?
 
2012-08-03 01:03:41 PM

FishStampede: Derp up there does actually bring up a good point, that the oft-used argument about people who pay zero federal income tax is they still pay other taxes like sales tax, social security, etc. If Mitt paid zero income tax, it's true he still probably paid taxes everywhere. Unless he managed to completely write off his homes as churches, buy everything online but have a minion pick it up from the distributor thus avoiding S&H, etc. That would just be completely silly.

We can be outraged about him not paying INCOME taxes at his level of wealth, but we do have to acknowledge he put into the pot somewhere along the way, even if he might have put a ten in but taken a buck or two back out and snickered as he walked away.


Chances are he paid taxes.......to other countries that aren't the US.
 
2012-08-03 01:04:05 PM

sparkeyjames: Vlad_the_Inaner: sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.

"What did the rich people ever build for us?"

"Roads?"

"Nope"

"Bridges"

"Nope"

Cake?


An infernally complicated tax code?
 
2012-08-03 01:04:15 PM
My source's source knows a source who's grandmother's friend swears it's true.
 
2012-08-03 01:06:44 PM

Captain Dan: More likely, he thinks that income/corporate/capital gains taxes are inefficient progressive ways to collect revenue, and he'd prefer to replace them with regressive consumption taxes/carbon taxes/VAT



It's shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle and lower classes.
 
2012-08-03 01:06:54 PM

Captain Dan: HeartBurnKid: The fact that this makes a difference is part of the problem. Romney has been arguing that the rich should have a lower tax rate when they already pay a lower one on the vast majority of their income thanks to that very distinction (among other tricks and loopholes they lobby for).

For political reasons, Romney can't say what he probably really believes, but I'm guessing he doesn't believe that we're anywhere near the Laffer Curve inflection point. More likely, he thinks that income/corporate/capital gains taxes are inefficient ways to collect revenue, and he'd prefer to replace them with consumption taxes/carbon taxes/VAT.

I can't read his mind, but this is what most smart people believe, and Romney is one of them.


So what you're saying is that he wants to reduce and/or repeal a progressive tax and two taxes that primarily affect rich people, and replace them with two regressive taxes and a tax that the Republicans would crucify him for even considering. And then you tell me it's "what most smart people believe" would be better, when there's a great many smart people who believe nothing of the sort. Yup, I'm sold.
 
2012-08-03 01:08:04 PM
Taxers = Birthers
\o/
|
/\
 
2012-08-03 01:08:05 PM

cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: More_Like_A_Stain: Lord Dimwit: As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.

[affordablehousinginstitute.org image 320x225]

For the record, here's a reference: Link

And if the Santorum's gave more to charities, they would have had a less ETR. The Romney's gave 13.9% of their income to charities and lowered their ETR. That is how it works.


I gave more to charity percentage wise to charity in 2010 than Romney did, but my tax rate was more than twice his. That seems wrong to me.
 
2012-08-03 01:09:53 PM

cgw_niu: Romney and his wife contributed $1 million to the Olympics, and he donated to charity the $1.4 million in salary and severance payments he received for his three years as president and CEO. Link

So how much in taxes do you pay when you donate $2.4M to charity?



When you work as Gov for a dollar a year, what is your personal tax liability for that salary?


When Mitt Romney's father passed away in 1995, he left an inheritance to Mitt totaling $1 million. Romney turned around and donated that inheritance money to Brigham Young University for the George W. Romney School of Public Management. Link

How much does this lower your tax liability?

The fact is is that This man is extremely generous with HIS money. How much has Obama or Biden given to charity?


Well then releasing his tax returns would make him look pretty good. I'm all for it
 
2012-08-03 01:10:15 PM

cgw_niu: Taxers = Birthers
\o/
|
/\


no
 
2012-08-03 01:10:49 PM

sparkeyjames: Vlad_the_Inaner: sprawl15: I'm starting to wonder if Romney is a liberal plant and his campaign is complex performance art: a Life of Brian-esque satire of rich people.

"What did the rich people ever build for us?"

"Roads?"

"Nope"

"Bridges"

"Nope"

Cake?


ordeath?
 
2012-08-03 01:11:13 PM

cgw_niu: Taxers = Birthers
\o/
|
/\


This particular meme is getting a lot of catapultin'

Doesn't seem to be sticking.
 
2012-08-03 01:11:32 PM
I have a source.

Oh yeah, who is your source?

I will not reveal my source.



/Alex jones has sources too
//just sayin
 
2012-08-03 01:11:53 PM

CPennypacker: cgw_niu: Taxers = Birthers
\o/
|
/\

no


true - not releasing tax returns doesn't disqualify you from the Presidency :)
 
2012-08-03 01:11:55 PM

Lord Dimwit: cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: More_Like_A_Stain: Lord Dimwit: As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.

[affordablehousinginstitute.org image 320x225]

For the record, here's a reference: Link

And if the Santorum's gave more to charities, they would have had a less ETR. The Romney's gave 13.9% of their income to charities and lowered their ETR. That is how it works.

I gave more to charity percentage wise to charity in 2010 than Romney did, but my tax rate was more than twice his. That seems wrong to me.



That is a fair concern. But I will bet that you had mostly payroll tax and he had capital gains taxes. remember that he paid taxes on the money that he used as the principal on those investments. So his rates are deceiving. I personally believe that your rates should be lowered to his not his raised to yours. I hope to be in his shoes someday and I am working hard on that.
 
2012-08-03 01:12:36 PM

cgw_niu: Taxers = Birthers
\o/
|
/\


This has been explained before, but one more time:

* The President released his birth certificate.

* There was no question where the President was born, no contradictory evidence. Romney has said one thing and had SEC filings say another. In fact, he may be guilty of perjury. Releasing his tax returns would be further evidence one way or the other. There is an actual question here, unlike the President's birthplace.

* The President didn't make one of his central campaign planks about birth certificates. One of Romney's core messages is that the rich pay too much in taxes, and yet he won't say how much he pays.
 
2012-08-03 01:13:32 PM

stoli n coke: At this point, I wouldn't doubt if CNN's anonymous source is Steve Schmidt.


WAY late to the party, but THIS RIGHT HERE.
 
2012-08-03 01:13:35 PM

cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: More_Like_A_Stain: Lord Dimwit: As for 2010, the only year for which Romney has released a tax return, he gave 13.8% of his income to charity. In 2010, Obama gave 14.2% of his income to charity. So...pretty comparable.

[affordablehousinginstitute.org image 320x225]

For the record, here's a reference: Link

And if the Santorum's gave more to charities, they would have had a less ETR. The Romney's gave 13.9% of their income to charities and lowered their ETR. That is how it works.

I gave more to charity percentage wise to charity in 2010 than Romney did, but my tax rate was more than twice his. That seems wrong to me.


That is a fair concern. But I will bet that you had mostly payroll tax and he had capital gains taxes. remember that he paid taxes on the money that he used as the principal on those investments. So his rates are deceiving. I personally believe that your rates should be lowered to his not his raised to yours. I hope to be in his shoes someday and I am working hard on that.


Okay. I get it now. 9/10.
 
2012-08-03 01:13:54 PM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: cgw_niu: Taxers = Birthers
\o/
|
/\

no

true - not releasing tax returns doesn't disqualify you from the Presidency :)


Darling you know I can't argue with you
 
2012-08-03 01:14:37 PM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: cgw_niu: Taxers = Birthers
\o/
|
/\

no

true - not releasing tax returns doesn't disqualify you from the Presidency :)

Darling you know I can't argue with you


besitos

:*
 
2012-08-03 01:15:30 PM

cgw_niu: The fact is is that This man is extremely generous with HIS money. How much has Obama or Biden given to charity?


Roughly the same percentage as Romney in 2010, actually. Though I don't think Obama's part of a church that requires tithing.
 
2012-08-03 01:19:12 PM

JK47: Captain Dan: More likely, he thinks that income/corporate/capital gains taxes are inefficient ways to collect revenue, and he'd prefer to replace them with consumption taxes/carbon taxes/VAT

It's shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle and lower classes.


It would likely be a progressive consumption tax, although to be honest I'd prefer a flatter tax. I have no problem with eliminating tax progressivity or the wealth inequality that would result, because there is nothing inherently bad about inequality.
 
2012-08-03 01:20:03 PM

Lord Dimwit: * The President released his birth certificate.


* There was no question where the President was born, no contradictory evidence. Romney has said one thing and had SEC filings say another. In fact, he may be guilty of perjury. Releasing his tax returns would be further evidence one way or the other. There is an actual question here, unlike the President's birthplace.

* The President didn't make one of his central campaign planks about birth certificates. One of Romney's core messages is that the rich pay too much in taxes, and yet he won't say how much he pays.



It did take him several years and Donald Fricken Trump for him to release the real one

Birthers still question where he was born regardless of the Birth Cert. If the SEC thinks that Romney violated the law then they should charge him with it. The laws in Hi allow for the first form that Obama released originally for foreign born persons. He trolled birthers in a bad way for several years.

Romney has said that the Rich pay too much taxes? Really? He has said that no-one should have their taxes raised in a bad economy. The same as Obama last year. I would not be surprised to see Romney raise taxes on the rich if the economy gets going.
 
2012-08-03 01:20:28 PM

sweetmelissa31: FlyingLizardOfDoom: No sales tax, property tax, or thumb tacks?

/nice one, mittens

That's funny, coming from the same people who have been accusing 50% of Americans of paying no taxes.


And the same people that claim, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
 
2012-08-03 01:22:07 PM
"Better to remain silent and be thought a tax cheat fool than to release your records speak and remove all doubt" - Abraham Lincoln
 
2012-08-03 01:22:24 PM
If Harry Reid really knows something, I'll expect him to say something like "if Romney releases his returns and proves he paid taxes every year, I'll step down as Majority Leader. Mitt, it's your turn to put up or shut up."

Considering how they've demonized Reid, any failure to release records will be an admission that he didn't pay taxes.
 
2012-08-03 01:22:45 PM

HeartBurnKid: Though I don't think Obama's part of a church that requires tithing.



Tithing is a Biblical concept. So I guess that makes Obama is a Muslim


/Couldn't resist the low hanging fruit
 
2012-08-03 01:27:34 PM

cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: * The President released his birth certificate.


* There was no question where the President was born, no contradictory evidence. Romney has said one thing and had SEC filings say another. In fact, he may be guilty of perjury. Releasing his tax returns would be further evidence one way or the other. There is an actual question here, unlike the President's birthplace.

* The President didn't make one of his central campaign planks about birth certificates. One of Romney's core messages is that the rich pay too much in taxes, and yet he won't say how much he pays.


It did take him several years and Donald Fricken Trump for him to release the real one

Birthers still question where he was born regardless of the Birth Cert. If the SEC thinks that Romney violated the law then they should charge him with it. The laws in Hi allow for the first form that Obama released originally for foreign born persons. He trolled birthers in a bad way for several years.

Romney has said that the Rich pay too much taxes? Really? He has said that no-one should have their taxes raised in a bad economy. The same as Obama last year. I would not be surprised to see Romney raise taxes on the rich if the economy gets going.


Birthers could be whisked back to the day of his birth via official GOP-Endorsed Time Machine to actively hand-deliver the lad into the world and they'd still question where he was born. BIRTHERS ARE MORONS.
 
2012-08-03 01:27:48 PM

cgw_niu: It did take him several years and Donald Fricken Trump for him to release the real one


*Plonk*

That's about all I can take.
 
2012-08-03 01:27:48 PM

Lord Dimwit: That is a fair concern. But I will bet that you had mostly payroll tax and he had capital gains taxes. remember that he paid taxes on the money that he used as the principal on those investments. So his rates are deceiving. I personally believe that your rates should be lowered to his not his raised to yours. I hope to be in his shoes someday and I am working hard on that.

Okay. I get it now. 9/10.



Step 1 become debt free

Step 2 Emergency Fund so you don't go into debt again

Step 3 Max out 401k, Roth and Standard IRAs, and invest then invest the rest in well performing funds

Step 4 live off of interest in retirement

Working so far, but started too late. Anyone can do it
 
2012-08-03 01:28:23 PM

Captain Dan: It would likely be a progressive consumption tax


Explain how a progressive consumption tax would work without creating an even greater level of bureaucracy than we have now.
 
2012-08-03 01:29:32 PM

cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: That is a fair concern. But I will bet that you had mostly payroll tax and he had capital gains taxes. remember that he paid taxes on the money that he used as the principal on those investments. So his rates are deceiving. I personally believe that your rates should be lowered to his not his raised to yours. I hope to be in his shoes someday and I am working hard on that.

Okay. I get it now. 9/10.


Step 1 become debt free

Step 2 Emergency Fund so you don't go into debt again

Step 3 Max out 401k, Roth and Standard IRAs, and invest then invest the rest in well performing funds

Step 4 live off of interest in retirement

Working so far, but started too late. Anyone can do it


Well, anyone with a 401k, Roth and other IRAs and a good paying job.
 
2012-08-03 01:30:07 PM

cgw_niu: I hope to be in his shoes someday and I am working hard on that.


So you're one of those "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires" that we hear about so much these days?
 
2012-08-03 01:30:28 PM

odinsposse: cgw_niu: It did take him several years and Donald Fricken Trump for him to release the real one

*Plonk*

That's about all I can take.



LMAO! Sad but true. When "The Donald" got involved and big part of my wished he didn't ask Hi to release his original, but he did.
 
2012-08-03 01:32:13 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: So you're one of those "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires" that we hear about so much these days?


Try "illiterate moron".
 
2012-08-03 01:34:01 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: cgw_niu: I hope to be in his shoes someday and I am working hard on that.

So you're one of those "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires" that we hear about so much these days?



Not yet, but I am working on it. It is amazing how much money you can actually have when you get out of debt. I was flat ass broke living paycheck to paycheck and using CC's to get by. Now the money that went to the CC's goes into retirement. It doesn't happen overnight and it is not easy, but the path is there for everyone in the 99%
 
2012-08-03 01:34:09 PM

cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: * The President released his birth certificate.


* There was no question where the President was born, no contradictory evidence. Romney has said one thing and had SEC filings say another. In fact, he may be guilty of perjury. Releasing his tax returns would be further evidence one way or the other. There is an actual question here, unlike the President's birthplace.

* The President didn't make one of his central campaign planks about birth certificates. One of Romney's core messages is that the rich pay too much in taxes, and yet he won't say how much he pays.


It did take him several years and Donald Fricken Trump for him to release the real one

Birthers still question where he was born regardless of the Birth Cert. If the SEC thinks that Romney violated the law then they should charge him with it. The laws in Hi allow for the first form that Obama released originally for foreign born persons. He trolled birthers in a bad way for several years.

Romney has said that the Rich pay too much taxes? Really? He has said that no-one should have their taxes raised in a bad economy. The same as Obama last year. I would not be surprised to see Romney raise taxes on the rich if the economy gets going.


That has been disproven many, many times. I was pretty sure earlier you were trolling, now I am totally sure. Good job, though. You had me rolling for a while.

(For the record, I got particularly suspicious when you played the "temporarily embarassed millionaire" card.)
 
2012-08-03 01:35:13 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: cgw_niu: I hope to be in his shoes someday and I am working hard on that.

So you're one of those "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires" that we hear about so much these days?


His super secret government terrorism training will start getting him the big bucks soon enough.
 
2012-08-03 01:36:02 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.

If he had released the records weeks or months ago, this would all be over. If he had released them even a couple of weeks back, and it showed that there is nothing there, this would be just a memory by now. His adamant refusal is what's fueling the speculation, and even if there ultimately proves to be nothing shady in them, they will be dissected with a much sharper scalpel than if he had not made an issue of them. It has escalated, by his own doing, from questions regarding his finances to questions regarding his judgement. He's letting his ego take charge of his decisions, and that may not be a good quality for a President to hold.


I agree that Romney should have released his returns way before this. But he didn't. To do so now would look like he was acquiescing to Reid's demands thus encouraging more of this behavior. My opinion for what it's worth is that this will hurt the Obama campaign by solidifying support for Romney, especially those who aren't exactly sweet on him anyway, and draw Independents who hate this kind of political behavior.
 
2012-08-03 01:37:32 PM
Sucks to be you people.
 
2012-08-03 01:38:43 PM

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns

It's exactly what it is, and Reid doesn't have the legal authority to release the returns. Romney does. He refused to release them, this is what you get.

Romney should release them no doubt. That is the standard set by our Presidential candidates dating back for a long time. I dont know about privacy laws concerning tax returns, but is it really ethical for someone to expose another person like this?


I don't know if this has been covered, I haven't read the whole thread but privacy laws concerning tax information are very strict.
Where I work we have access to some tax information and our access is tracked, we have notices up every where stating tax information is here and citing IRS codes. We have to watch a video about the laws and sign off that we have watched it every year. If I just look at someone's tax information that I don't have to for work I could possible go to jail and pay heavy fines. We don't even see full tax filings, just if someone gets a tax return. There is a hotline number to turn people in if we see a violation.
Tax info has to stored behind two locked doors with only certain people able to have access. This is tracked by who uses their badges to get in and out of those areas.
These laws have been on the books for awhile but full enforcement did not come down until Obama's adminstration (at least at our office). Apparently from what we were told the Bush adminstration wasn't too concerned regarding enforcement but Obama's is. It's a big deal. I wouldn't want to be the person who leaks Romney's filings. It is all tracked of who has access to the info and I imagine someone would be prosecuted or take the fall.
In short: tax info, very big deal. Everyone who has access is tracked.
 
2012-08-03 01:40:59 PM

jackieeeee: cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: If he paid no taxes for the past decade then why did he release two tax records saying that he did?

Christ, Kos, I know you are highly partisan, but going up Birther avenue does not suit anyone

Reid's source is Bain related, and the years in question are supposed to be pre-2010.

Well, I know the son of a worker at McDonalds, and from what he tells me, Corporate is planning on buying back stock from investors.

/Anon sources need verification.
//This could be some strategy of Reid lying to force Romney to release his returns

It's exactly what it is, and Reid doesn't have the legal authority to release the returns. Romney does. He refused to release them, this is what you get.

Romney should release them no doubt. That is the standard set by our Presidential candidates dating back for a long time. I dont know about privacy laws concerning tax returns, but is it really ethical for someone to expose another person like this?

I don't know if this has been covered, I haven't read the whole thread but privacy laws concerning tax information are very strict.
Where I work we have access to some tax information and our access is tracked, we have notices up every where stating tax information is here and citing IRS codes. We have to watch a video about the laws and sign off that we have watched it every year. If I just look at someone's tax information that I don't have to for work I could possible go to jail and pay heavy fines. We don't even see full tax filings, just if someone gets a tax return. There is a hotline number to turn people in if we see a violation.
Tax info has to stored behind two locked doors with only certain people able to have access. This is tracked by who uses their badges to get in and out of those areas.
These laws have been on the books for awhile but full enforcement did not come down until Obama's adminstration (at least at our office). Apparently from what we were told the Bush adminstration wasn't too concer ...


...so you're saying Obama is hiding something in his taxes? 'Cause that's what I'm hearing. Why won't 0bama release his real tax returns???
 
2012-08-03 01:41:55 PM

Ford Perfect: More_Like_A_Stain: Ford Perfect: If Mitt releases more tax returns, he will have many more charges, baseless or not, to answer to. He will have to answer charges based on every page of his tax returns, and stories about every deduction he made.
Right now all he has to answer to is a charge with no evidence and a story that sounds exaggerated. You don't hand ammo to your opposition.

If he had released the records weeks or months ago, this would all be over. If he had released them even a couple of weeks back, and it showed that there is nothing there, this would be just a memory by now. His adamant refusal is what's fueling the speculation, and even if there ultimately proves to be nothing shady in them, they will be dissected with a much sharper scalpel than if he had not made an issue of them. It has escalated, by his own doing, from questions regarding his finances to questions regarding his judgement. He's letting his ego take charge of his decisions, and that may not be a good quality for a President to hold.

I agree that Romney should have released his returns way before this. But he didn't. To do so now would look like he was acquiescing to Reid's demands thus encouraging more of this behavior. My opinion for what it's worth is that this will hurt the Obama campaign by solidifying support for Romney, especially those who aren't exactly sweet on him anyway, and draw Independents who hate this kind of political behavior.


Wait, wait. You think that this is going to draw support TO Romney? Is that his plan? To appeal to 'pity voters'?

"Oh, damn that Obama! He's pointing out that Romney is deliberately hiding his financial records and there are rumors that he's paid NOTHING in taxes for ten years! That does it, I'm going to support the guy who's hiding his tax records!"

lol
 
2012-08-03 01:42:54 PM

Ford Perfect: My opinion for what it's worth is that this will hurt the Obama campaign by solidifying support for Romney, especially those who aren't exactly sweet on him anyway, and draw Independents who hate this kind of political behavior.


Yeah. I'm sure that's what is going to happen. I mean, that's why John Kerry so soundly defeated Bush in 2004. The backlash from the swiftboating.
 
2012-08-03 01:45:00 PM

Halli: More_Like_A_Stain: cgw_niu: I hope to be in his shoes someday and I am working hard on that.

So you're one of those "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires" that we hear about so much these days?

His super secret government terrorism training will start getting him the big bucks soon enough.




LOL Link

Good Memory!
 
2012-08-03 01:45:51 PM

HeartBurnKid: Explain how a progressive consumption tax would work without creating an even greater level of bureaucracy than we have now.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=progressive+consumption+tax+implementation
 
2012-08-03 01:46:33 PM

jackieeeee: In short: tax info, very big deal. Everyone who has access is tracked.


Of course the person who is this source may not have official access. He may just be parroting a Romney boast over oefs au creme anglaise at the National Dressage Association breakfast.
 
2012-08-03 01:48:37 PM

Skleenar: jackieeeee: In short: tax info, very big deal. Everyone who has access is tracked.

Of course the person who is this source may not have official access. He may just be parroting a Romney boast over oefs au creme anglaise at the National Dressage Association breakfast.


Man, now I want oeufs au creme anglaise avec cheval et les enfants des le troiseme etat.
 
2012-08-03 01:49:12 PM

Captain Dan: Mitt Romney is probably the most intelligent candidate to run for President since Jimmy Carter.



What are you basing this off of?
 
2012-08-03 01:49:25 PM

Infernalist: Wait, wait. You think that this is going to draw support TO Romney? Is that his plan? To appeal to 'pity voters'?


Makes as much sense as any of the other cries of victimization from the Republicans. It's really quite a clever plan. "Vote for me! Putin will see just what a pussy I am and leave us alone out of sympathy!" Who will they run the next time, John "Waterworks" Boehner?
 
2012-08-03 01:51:08 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Captain Dan: Mitt Romney is probably the most intelligent candidate to run for President since Jimmy Carter.


What are you basing this off of?


Bath salts.
 
2012-08-03 01:51:44 PM
I'm still waiting for the Birthers who were upset that Obama's father was born outside of the country to raise the same stink about Romney's Mexican-born father.

Or the people who complained about Grey Poupon and Arugula to explain how Romney is much less east-coast elitest.

...still waiting...
 
2012-08-03 01:54:55 PM

Lord Dimwit: I'm still waiting for the Birthers who were upset that Obama's father was born outside of the country to raise the same stink about Romney's Mexican-born father.

Or the people who complained about Grey Poupon and Arugula to explain how Romney is much less east-coast elitest.

...still waiting...


well, old Georgie was a natural born citizen by virtue of his parents both being citizens who were living abroad.

The Romster is leaps and bounds more elite than BO though, that's for shizzle
 
2012-08-03 01:56:53 PM
His base is really worried about him using tax laws to his advantage and independents really hate a candidate that knows how to operate in a business environment.

Yep, this will surely sink him.
 
2012-08-03 01:57:48 PM

skullkrusher: Lord Dimwit: I'm still waiting for the Birthers who were upset that Obama's father was born outside of the country to raise the same stink about Romney's Mexican-born father.

Or the people who complained about Grey Poupon and Arugula to explain how Romney is much less east-coast elitest.

...still waiting...

well, old Georgie was a natural born citizen by virtue of his parents both being citizens who were living abroad.

The Romster is leaps and bounds more elite than BO though, that's for shizzle


But George Romney was also a Mexican citizen. I was told that people who hold dual citizenship can't be natural-born citizens.
 
2012-08-03 01:58:34 PM

Lord Dimwit: I'm still waiting for the Birthers who were upset that Obama's father was born outside of the country to raise the same stink about Romney's Mexican-born father.

Or the people who complained about Grey Poupon and Arugula to explain how Romney is much less east-coast elitest.

...still waiting...




WAIT A MINUTE....Romney is Latino??? Holy FARK! Now I can't vote for him (that is what liberals really think)

The fact that Romney is a east/left coast elitest is part of why his personal likability is so low. It is really hard to warm up to those type of people. i.e Kerry
 
2012-08-03 02:00:21 PM

Lord Dimwit: But George Romney was also a Mexican citizen. I was told that people who hold dual citizenship can't be natural-born citizens.


I did not know that. I guess it makes sense if Mexico has jus soli citizenship
 
2012-08-03 02:01:13 PM

cgw_niu: Lord Dimwit: I'm still waiting for the Birthers who were upset that Obama's father was born outside of the country to raise the same stink about Romney's Mexican-born father.

Or the people who complained about Grey Poupon and Arugula to explain how Romney is much less east-coast elitest.

...still waiting...



WAIT A MINUTE....Romney is Latino??? Holy FARK! Now I can't vote for him (that is what liberals really think)

The fact that Romney is a east/left coast elitest is part of why his personal likability is so low. It is really hard to warm up to those type of people. i.e Kerry


it would allow him to trace hispanic origins. Not a latino.
 
2012-08-03 02:01:21 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Captain Dan: Mitt Romney is probably the most intelligent candidate to run for President since Jimmy Carter.

What are you basing this off of?


His academic and business achievements, combined with his stint as governor of Massachusetts. The recent rhetorical dumbing-down has been affected for a presidential election.
 
2012-08-03 02:01:31 PM

mycatisposter: Yep, this will surely sink him.



It's already sinking him. Obama now has the biggest lead yet.
 
2012-08-03 02:03:34 PM

mycatisposter: His base is really worried about him using tax laws to his advantage and independents really hate a candidate that knows how to operate in a business environment.

Yep, this will surely sink him.


His 'base' hates him based on the fact that he's not Santorum or Newt or RON PAUL. They hate his guts because he's everything that they despise. Smart and cultured and East-Coast-Elitist and all that jazz.

The independents dislike him because he's viewed as a sleezy vulture capitalist and is prone to saying and doing whatever it takes to be liked by whoever is looking at him at the moment.

The independents don't hate him because he's a businessman, they hate him because he's filthy rich and complains about paying taxes that he won't even miss. They hate him because he's a caricature of the Rich Bastard who likes to fire people.

And they're not wrong to hate him.
 
2012-08-03 02:03:59 PM

Captain Dan: The recent rhetorical dumbing-down has been affected for a presidential election.



The "dumbing down" has been more than rhetorical. I think the dude is book smart. By every other measurement, his intelligence is average.
 
2012-08-03 02:09:31 PM

Skleenar: jackieeeee: In short: tax info, very big deal. Everyone who has access is tracked.

Of course the person who is this source may not have official access. He may just be parroting a Romney boast over oefs au creme anglaise at the National Dressage Association breakfast.


Very true!

I just know if someone leaks his actual tax filings, with our laws, someone would have to go down. I don't see Romney just letting that go and we have laws to prosecute anyone who even looks at unauthorized tax information. He can talk about his own tax information all he wants but unless he authorizes the release, leaking the actual filings is a very big deal.

My opinion is that his taxes show that the GOP's whole economic agrument for more tax cuts for the wealthy would be shown to completely invalid. I think it's bigger than him (though I also think he believes us normal people have no right to his see business), it would show how very little the 1% actually pay and that they live by different rules. If that is put to the American public in black and white their whole argument is toast.
 
2012-08-03 02:10:48 PM
My theory: Romney really did believe he paid federal taxes, and the people who are in charge of his money never really talked about it with him because, well, why would they? He's paying them to maximize his tax benefits and protect his wealth.

Now, he's found out that he's put his foot in his mouth because he's paid none, and he's embarrassed and afraid to admit the truth.

Of course, given that Romney behaves like a sociopath much of the time, the occam's razor option is that he just lied and didn't think he'd get caught. Ironic, given that his father started the revelation to the press of 12 years of tax returns tradition.
 
2012-08-03 02:12:43 PM

secularsage: My theory: Romney really did believe he paid federal taxes, and the people who are in charge of his money never really talked about it with him because, well, why would they? He's paying them to maximize his tax benefits and protect his wealth.

Now, he's found out that he's put his foot in his mouth because he's paid none, and he's embarrassed and afraid to admit the truth.

Of course, given that Romney behaves like a sociopath much of the time, the occam's razor option is that he just lied and didn't think he'd get caught. Ironic, given that his father started the revelation to the press of 12 years of tax returns tradition.


Romney still had to sign his returns. He knew what was in there.

Releasing 12 years of tax returns is not a tradition.
 
2012-08-03 02:18:32 PM

skullkrusher: secularsage: My theory: Romney really did believe he paid federal taxes, and the people who are in charge of his money never really talked about it with him because, well, why would they? He's paying them to maximize his tax benefits and protect his wealth.

Now, he's found out that he's put his foot in his mouth because he's paid none, and he's embarrassed and afraid to admit the truth.

Of course, given that Romney behaves like a sociopath much of the time, the occam's razor option is that he just lied and didn't think he'd get caught. Ironic, given that his father started the revelation to the press of 12 years of tax returns tradition.

Romney still had to sign his returns. He knew what was in there.

Releasing 12 years of tax returns is not a tradition.


Whatever it is, the fact that he hasn't released those records is unusual. Unusual enough for people to fixate upon it.

It's like...Having accidentally caught himself on fire, he'd rather burn to death rather than strip off his burning clothes and be embarrassed at being flabby and pale and naked.
 
2012-08-03 02:21:32 PM
i bet romney has nothing to hide and he's just playing the opposition. he'll probably offer to trade one year's tax return for obamas college transcripts. maybe another year for the fast and furious documents, and so on.
 
2012-08-03 02:21:42 PM

Infernalist: skullkrusher: secularsage: My theory: Romney really did believe he paid federal taxes, and the people who are in charge of his money never really talked about it with him because, well, why would they? He's paying them to maximize his tax benefits and protect his wealth.

Now, he's found out that he's put his foot in his mouth because he's paid none, and he's embarrassed and afraid to admit the truth.

Of course, given that Romney behaves like a sociopath much of the time, the occam's razor option is that he just lied and didn't think he'd get caught. Ironic, given that his father started the revelation to the press of 12 years of tax returns tradition.

Romney still had to sign his returns. He knew what was in there.

Releasing 12 years of tax returns is not a tradition.

Whatever it is, the fact that he hasn't released those records is unusual. Unusual enough for people to fixate upon it.

It's like...Having accidentally caught himself on fire, he'd rather burn to death rather than strip off his burning clothes and be embarrassed at being flabby and pale and naked.


he's released 2 years. Less than most, more than some since his father's campaign. 12 years of returns isn't anything resembling a tradition. As I said, I think BO is the only candidate since Romney the Elder to do so
 
2012-08-03 02:22:06 PM

cgw_niu: Romney and his wife contributed $1 million to the Olympics, and he donated to charity the $1.4 million in salary and severance payments he received for his three years as president and CEO. Link

So how much in taxes do you pay when you donate $2.4M to charity?



When you work as Gov for a dollar a year, what is your personal tax liability for that salary?


When Mitt Romney's father passed away in 1995, he left an inheritance to Mitt totaling $1 million. Romney turned around and donated that inheritance money to Brigham Young University for the George W. Romney School of Public Management. Link

How much does this lower your tax liability?

The fact is is that This man is extremely generous with HIS money. How much has Obama or Biden given to charity?


Mitt can be as charitable as he likes with his own dough, but I wish he'd quit giving away mine - I am sure the rest of US taxpayers will be thrilled to find out they have been supporting the LDS church AND reducing Mitt's tax liability by foregoing the tax due on that money.
 
2012-08-03 02:23:42 PM

colon_pow: i bet romney has nothing to hide and he's just playing the opposition. he'll probably offer to trade one year's tax return for obamas college transcripts. maybe another year for the fast and furious documents, and so on.


Bwahahaha

Why would the Romney campaign even care about college records? They aren't stupid enough to go birther.
 
2012-08-03 02:23:48 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: badhatharry: An IRS employee or McCain could be the source. More likely Reid is just a liar.

Let's assume for just a moment that he is. Where is the benefit in letting this smolder? How does this help Romney? Is he expecting some sort of sympathy bump because all of the mean old Democrats are picking on him? How does this help him?


If it was a McCain staffer who is trying to "help" Romney...

They might know that Romney said he would flat-out never release them. They have a pretty good guess that the Democrats already have them, and plan to leak them as an October Surprise.

By dragging them out into the light in August, it gives Romney time to recover from them, and hope they blow over, particularly if unemployment and gas prices are high, or an Obama scandal shakes loose.
 
2012-08-03 02:25:37 PM

skullkrusher: Infernalist: skullkrusher: secularsage: My theory: Romney really did believe he paid federal taxes, and the people who are in charge of his money never really talked about it with him because, well, why would they? He's paying them to maximize his tax benefits and protect his wealth.

Now, he's found out that he's put his foot in his mouth because he's paid none, and he's embarrassed and afraid to admit the truth.

Of course, given that Romney behaves like a sociopath much of the time, the occam's razor option is that he just lied and didn't think he'd get caught. Ironic, given that his father started the revelation to the press of 12 years of tax returns tradition.

Romney still had to sign his returns. He knew what was in there.

Releasing 12 years of tax returns is not a tradition.

Whatever it is, the fact that he hasn't released those records is unusual. Unusual enough for people to fixate upon it.

It's like...Having accidentally caught himself on fire, he'd rather burn to death rather than strip off his burning clothes and be embarrassed at being flabby and pale and naked.

he's released 2 years. Less than most, more than some since his father's campaign. 12 years of returns isn't anything resembling a tradition. As I said, I think BO is the only candidate since Romney the Elder to do so


None of that is relevant, though. Obama has solid control of the narrative and that means that the 'only' thing that people are hearing from all sides is "Why won't he release those tax returns? WHAT IS HE HIDING?"

Even the GOP are parroting this narrative. They can't stop it. The only solution, painful as it may be, would be to release the returns, explain them as best as they can, refuse to apologize and say "There, now can we PLEASE talk about how bad the economy is, rather than how much money I have?"

But, they won't do that.
 
2012-08-03 02:28:12 PM

Infernalist: None of that is relevant, though. Obama has solid control of the narrative and that means that the 'only' thing that people are hearing from all sides is "Why won't he release those tax returns? WHAT IS HE HIDING?"

Even the GOP are parroting this narrative. They can't stop it. The only solution, painful as it may be, would be to release the returns, explain them as best as they can, refuse to apologize and say "There, now can we PLEASE talk about how bad the economy is, rather than how much money I have?"

But, they won't do that.


I was just responding to an erroneous post, senor.
Mittens is clearly hoping this will go away. The Dems need to make sure it doesn't.
 
2012-08-03 02:29:09 PM

skullkrusher: Releasing 12 years of tax returns is not a tradition.


It is in the Romney family.
 
2012-08-03 02:31:21 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: skullkrusher: Releasing 12 years of tax returns is not a tradition.

It is in the Romney family.



Apparently not
 
2012-08-03 02:31:30 PM

skullkrusher: Romney still had to sign his returns. He knew what was in there.


Actually, he has already used the excuse that he didn't read his tax returns when he signed them the LAST time he was caught lying about his tax returns.

/see previous links if you doubt this.
 
2012-08-03 02:32:35 PM

colon_pow: i bet romney has nothing to hide and he's just playing the opposition. he'll probably offer to trade one year's tax return for obamas college transcripts. maybe another year for the fast and furious documents, and so on.


The dumb hurts.
 
2012-08-03 02:33:09 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: skullkrusher: Releasing 12 years of tax returns is not a tradition.

It is in the Romney family.


when thinking they'll be running against LBJ
 
2012-08-03 02:33:17 PM

Paul Baumer: Mitt can be as charitable as he likes with his own dough, but I wish he'd quit giving away mine - I am sure the rest of US taxpayers will be thrilled to find out they have been supporting the LDS church AND reducing Mitt's tax liability by foregoing the tax due on that money.




Wait, What? Mitt's money is your money? Or did Mitt the wimp kick your ass and take your money? Please do explain.

/brb, getting popcorn
 
2012-08-03 02:33:51 PM

Skleenar: skullkrusher: Romney still had to sign his returns. He knew what was in there.

Actually, he has already used the excuse that he didn't read his tax returns when he signed them the LAST time he was caught lying about his tax returns.

/see previous links if you doubt this.


why kind of idiot does something like that? Get a brane, mormon.
 
2012-08-03 02:34:52 PM

skullkrusher:

he's released 2 years. Less than most, more than some since his father's campaign. 12 years of returns isn't anything resembling a tradition. As I said, I think BO is the only candidate since Romney the Elder to do so


Here's a pretty good summary

2008: Obama 7. McCain: 2

2004 Bush: 9 years (before being elected in 2000). Kerry: 20 years

2000 Bush 9, Gore 8 (as VP)

1996: Dole 30, Clinton 12 (before 1992)

It goes back to Reagan-Carter. Looks like the only one who refused was Perot.
 
2012-08-03 02:37:28 PM
Teabaggers: "Well Romney's rich and he didn't pay taxes, so if none of us pay taxes we'll all be rich!"

I wish I was joking, but I expect something like this to become gospel for them if Romney ends up getting exposed as a tax dodger.
 
2012-08-03 02:38:53 PM

Sgt Otter: skullkrusher:

he's released 2 years. Less than most, more than some since his father's campaign. 12 years of returns isn't anything resembling a tradition. As I said, I think BO is the only candidate since Romney the Elder to do so

Here's a pretty good summary

2008: Obama 7. McCain: 2

2004 Bush: 9 years (before being elected in 2000). Kerry: 20 years

2000 Bush 9, Gore 8 (as VP)

1996: Dole 30, Clinton 12 (before 1992)

It goes back to Reagan-Carter. Looks like the only one who refused was Perot.


Links to the returns for some of those doods

Dayum, FDR
 
2012-08-03 02:40:17 PM

cgw_niu: Paul Baumer: Mitt can be as charitable as he likes with his own dough, but I wish he'd quit giving away mine - I am sure the rest of US taxpayers will be thrilled to find out they have been supporting the LDS church AND reducing Mitt's tax liability by foregoing the tax due on that money.



Wait, What? Mitt's money is your money? Or did Mitt the wimp kick your ass and take your money? Please do explain.

/brb, getting popcorn


You do understand that any tax money not collected has to be covered by the rest of us suckers in the form of T-bills, right? Hope you didn't burn the popcorn - you probably shouldn't operate a microwave if you don't grasp how tax avoidance is the same thing as putting money in your pocket and taking it out of mine.
 
2012-08-03 02:45:52 PM

Paul Baumer: cgw_niu: Paul Baumer: Mitt can be as charitable as he likes with his own dough, but I wish he'd quit giving away mine - I am sure the rest of US taxpayers will be thrilled to find out they have been supporting the LDS church AND reducing Mitt's tax liability by foregoing the tax due on that money.



Wait, What? Mitt's money is your money? Or did Mitt the wimp kick your ass and take your money? Please do explain.

/brb, getting popcorn

You do understand that any tax money not collected has to be covered by the rest of us suckers in the form of T-bills, right? Hope you didn't burn the popcorn - you probably shouldn't operate a microwave if you don't grasp how tax avoidance is the same thing as putting money in your pocket and taking it out of mine.



So you are part of the top 1% or are you part of the top 10%? If you are getting a single dollar from the Government then you are the reason for the T-bils. We are in debt because of the horrid spending and NOT tax revenue.

My popcorn is good and butter, thanks
 
2012-08-03 02:47:20 PM

cgw_niu: We are in debt because of the horrid spending and NOT tax revenue.


If you say so.
 
2012-08-03 02:48:46 PM
Perhaps CNN should stick to what they do best... playing crappy music.

img.over-blog.com
 
2012-08-03 02:48:57 PM

Captain Dan: HeartBurnKid: Explain how a progressive consumption tax would work without creating an even greater level of bureaucracy than we have now.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=progressive+consumption+tax+implementation


Ah, yes, "Go Google it". The new way to say "I got nothing".

I bolded the important part of my question, there. Everybody who brings up the idea talks about complicated "prebate" schemes (which would create hideous levels of bureaucracy), and the only alternative I can think of would be tracking every single purchase to determine the effective rate (which, besides the obvious privacy issues, would create an even worse one).
 
2012-08-03 02:53:03 PM

LordJiro: Brick-House: Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous

[obamaballotchallenge.com image 500x431]

Still wondering what kind of shiat you drooling retards would hope to see in the college records.


Oh, I don't know. Like how he qualified to even get into these schools with his admitted shiatty Highschool record.

Who paid for college

What grades did he get in Economics -- because he's failing now.

Papers he wrote (assuming he actually wrote them unlike his books)
 
2012-08-03 02:56:57 PM

cgw_niu: Paul Baumer: cgw_niu: Paul Baumer: Mitt can be as charitable as he likes with his own dough, but I wish he'd quit giving away mine - I am sure the rest of US taxpayers will be thrilled to find out they have been supporting the LDS church AND reducing Mitt's tax liability by foregoing the tax due on that money.



Wait, What? Mitt's money is your money? Or did Mitt the wimp kick your ass and take your money? Please do explain.

/brb, getting popcorn

You do understand that any tax money not collected has to be covered by the rest of us suckers in the form of T-bills, right? Hope you didn't burn the popcorn - you probably shouldn't operate a microwave if you don't grasp how tax avoidance is the same thing as putting money in your pocket and taking it out of mine.


So you are part of the top 1% or are you part of the top 10%? If you are getting a single dollar from the Government then you are the reason for the T-bils. We are in debt because of the horrid spending and NOT tax revenue.

My popcorn is good and butter, thanks


Aside from being WTF? level meaningless, this is factually incorrect. Debt service was 500B last year. I don't think I'll be talking to you any more
 
2012-08-03 03:02:37 PM

Lord Dimwit: Skleenar: jackieeeee: In short: tax info, very big deal. Everyone who has access is tracked.

Of course the person who is this source may not have official access. He may just be parroting a Romney boast over oefs au creme anglaise at the National Dressage Association breakfast.

Man, now I want oeufs au creme anglaise avec cheval et les enfants des le troiseme etat.


I studied French. You're one sick puppy.

/What do you have against NJ anyway?
//Waitaminnit... *looks closer* Governor Christie?
 
2012-08-03 03:06:22 PM

skullkrusher: Skleenar: skullkrusher: Romney still had to sign his returns. He knew what was in there.

Actually, he has already used the excuse that he didn't read his tax returns when he signed them the LAST time he was caught lying about his tax returns.

/see previous links if you doubt this.

why kind of idiot does something like that? Get a brane, mormon.


I'm giving that one a "Smartest" and a "Funniest".
 
2012-08-03 03:06:37 PM

skullkrusher: he's released 2 years. Less than most, more than some since his father's campaign. 12 years of returns isn't anything resembling a tradition. As I said, I think BO is the only candidate since Romney the Elder to do so


Obama: 12 years of returns
W. Bush: 8 years of returns
Clinton: 8 years of returns
Bush: 3 years of returns
Reagan: 6 years of returns
Carter: 3 years of returns
Ford: provided a tax summary spanning ten years, but not the actual returns
Nixon 4 years of returns

Romney provided his full 2010 returns. He also provided part of his 2011 return, but not enough to paint a clear picture of his dealings for that year.

It is entirely fair to say that Romney is not being forthcoming when compared to all the presidents of my lifetime. That is fact.
 
2012-08-03 03:12:01 PM
I wonder if Romney offered a $10 million bet with CNN and Harry Reid about whether he paid income taxes, if either would have the courage of their accusations to take it.

i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-03 03:16:51 PM

Gimmick: It is entirely fair to say that Romney is not being forthcoming when compared to all the presidents of my lifetime. That is fact.


sure. It's also fair to say that 12 years of returns isn't a tradition. Which is what I said.
 
2012-08-03 03:18:33 PM

jjorsett: I wonder if Romney offered a $10 million bet with CNN and Harry Reid about whether he paid income taxes, if either would have the courage of their accusations to take it.

[i50.tinypic.com image 512x288]


That was a lot of work for an incomprehensible point
 
2012-08-03 03:19:19 PM
If Romney is trying to playi rope-a-dope with his tax returns, he's either the most masterful player in history, or he's the dope.

My money is on Romney being the dope.
 
2012-08-03 03:19:59 PM
YAWN...call me when they release Obama's Birth Certificate
 
2012-08-03 03:20:50 PM

Halli: That's good for you. It won't change the fact that Romney is secretive about something that every presidential candidate has released for decades starting with Romney's own father


FTFY. Can't be repeated too often.
 
2012-08-03 03:21:32 PM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-08-03 03:23:29 PM
I watched the AC360 last night and Dana Bash said nothing even remotely close to that. If she said anything like that it was today not yesterday.
 
2012-08-03 03:27:44 PM

jjorsett: I wonder if Romney offered a $10 million bet with CNN and Harry Reid about whether he paid income taxes, if either would have the courage of their accusations to take it.

[i50.tinypic.com image 512x288]


Harry should see a doctor for that chunk of skull he's missing from the back of his head.
 
2012-08-03 03:27:57 PM

sprawl15: HeartBurnKid: imontheinternet: Her anonymous "credible source" confirmed that some guy is saying that Romney paid 0 taxes. This is a bullshiat non-story. When somebody is ready to go on the record in front of a camera, you've got a story, until then leave it alone.

As we all know, responsible reporters only report what's on record. That's why we knew the identity of Deep Throat from day 1.

img52.imageshack.us

"Harry. These bastards need to burn for letting me fail to Konstantin Pavolvich Loshadev. I wanted to perform a croupade, but Anne told me that an Oldenburg could never manage it! My father goes unavenged. Here are the returns."


I can't favorite this hard enough. Jesus, I almost pooped...
 
2012-08-03 03:30:45 PM

Skleenar: jjorsett: I wonder if Romney offered a $10 million bet with CNN and Harry Reid about whether he paid income taxes, if either would have the courage of their accusations to take it.

[i50.tinypic.com image 512x288]

That was a lot of work for an incomprehensible point


Just consider the source.
 
2012-08-03 03:34:19 PM

sprawl15: img52.imageshack.us

"Harry. These bastards need to burn for letting me fail to Konstantin Pavolvich Loshadev. I wanted to perform a croupade, but Anne told me that an Oldenburg could never manage it! My father goes unavenged. Here are the returns."


YESSS!
 
2012-08-03 03:42:30 PM
How interesting is it that there's not a single mention of the unemployment numbers on Fark today... guess a tweet by Fred Thompson or another horse-beating thread about Romney's taxes is more important than another month of 8%+ unemployment.

/ Obama 2012: Confuse. Inveigle. Obfuscate.
 
2012-08-03 03:47:16 PM

Rann Xerox: More_Like_A_Stain: Rann Xerox: LOL!!!! ♪ Geor-gie Tirebiter..... ♫

Good times!


You sound old. At least you would if I could get this damned hearing aid to go loud enough to hear you. Bel-Tone my ass.

An ear trumpet works a whole lot better for me and at half the cost.


Have you tried more belt onions? Worked for me.
 
2012-08-03 03:51:01 PM

WombatControl: How interesting is it that there's not a single mention of the unemployment numbers on Fark today... guess a tweet by Fred Thompson or another horse-beating thread about Romney's taxes is more important than another month of 8%+ unemployment.

/ Obama 2012: Confuse. Inveigle. Obfuscate.


You're not very bright, are you?

July unemployment ↑, June employment numbers revised ↓, American public still caught between ↔
 
2012-08-03 03:54:20 PM
A small part of me harbors some small, tiny thought that republicans are being thoughtful and playing the long game with this tax returns stuff. Let it simmer, release at the convention and nothing's there.

Realistically though, Romney is just an entitled tard that has never, ever had his number called on his bullshiat. That's far, far more plausible. What's in it? Probably amnesty from 2009 at the very least. Damn sure a low % of taxes paid on income, which would explode this myth of trickle down job creators nonsense the 'pubs have been pushing for a generation.
 
2012-08-03 03:56:10 PM

Sgt Otter: WombatControl: How interesting is it that there's not a single mention of the unemployment numbers on Fark today... guess a tweet by Fred Thompson or another horse-beating thread about Romney's taxes is more important than another month of 8%+ unemployment.

/ Obama 2012: Confuse. Inveigle. Obfuscate.

You're not very bright, are you?

July unemployment ↑, June employment numbers revised ↓, American public still caught between ↔


If you take away a Republicans ability to whine and feel persecuted what else will they have??
 
2012-08-03 03:59:54 PM

Infernalist: skullkrusher: secularsage: My theory: Romney really did believe he paid federal taxes, and the people who are in charge of his money never really talked about it with him because, well, why would they? He's paying them to maximize his tax benefits and protect his wealth.

Now, he's found out that he's put his foot in his mouth because he's paid none, and he's embarrassed and afraid to admit the truth.

It's like...Having accidentally caught himself on fire, he'd rather burn to death rather than strip off his burning clothes and be embarrassed at being flabby and pale and naked.


Or showing the girl skin he's wearing underneath.
 
2012-08-03 04:02:44 PM

Johnny Swank: A small part of me harbors some small, tiny thought that republicans are being thoughtful and playing the long game with this tax returns stuff. Let it simmer, release at the convention and nothing's there.


I don't think it would work. Trolling the Birthers worked because BHO had already released a perfectly legal birth certificate, and didn't really comment on it. Normal people were satisfied already, and the only people who got trolled who would never vote for Obama to begin with.

Mitt hasn't released anything near the usual amount of tax returns, and both Mitt and Ann Romney have both made it clear they're afraid of something in the returns, and they are being extremely defensive about it.

Normal people aren't satisfied.

If they are playing a long-con, sure, the Romney faithful will lap it up, but normal people will probably be offended that they were misled by Romney for so long. I think that would outweigh any OH SNAP! boost. Sure, you're trolling Obama, but you're trolling the very people you're trying to win over as collateral damage.
 
2012-08-03 04:07:00 PM

Brick-House: LordJiro: Brick-House: Captain Dan: Romney should offer to release his tax returns in exchange for Obama releasing his college transcripts. It would be an instant Great Moments in Politics.

/they're both probably mildly embarrassing but innocuous

[obamaballotchallenge.com image 500x431]

Still wondering what kind of shiat you drooling retards would hope to see in the college records.

Oh, I don't know. Like how he qualified to even get into these schools with his admitted shiatty Highschool record.

Who paid for college

What grades did he get in Economics -- because he's failing now.

Papers he wrote (assuming he actually wrote them unlike his books)


You seriously want Obama to release papers he wrote in college? Why would he?
 
2012-08-03 04:07:44 PM

WombatControl: How interesting is it that there's not a single mention of the unemployment numbers on Fark today... guess a tweet by Fred Thompson or another horse-beating thread about Romney's taxes is more important than another month of 8%+ unemployment.

/ Obama 2012: Confuse. Inveigle. Obfuscate.


The U3 is important again? How come Conservatives only consider this indicator as important when it increases? Since Obama signed his first budget, the U3 has dropped from 10% to 8.3%.
 
2012-08-03 04:08:09 PM
The point of this isn't to make Romney do anything, it's to keep the story on the front page... The really hilarious part is that this is nothing but upside for the Obama campaign; if Romney surrogates attack Reid the story stays on the front page, if they release the tax returns then they have to deal with consequences of the release, ignoring it at this point isn't an option.

Reid is retiring after his next term most likely and like the honey-badger, he does not give a fark. So if you think he gives one fark about a bunch of yahoos calling him a pederast because they think it somehow proves a point I have news for you blockheads: he loves it. Because there are 99 days left before the election and every day Mitt Romney and his surrogates spend defending his decision not to release his tax returns or attacking people who are attacking him for not releasing his tax returns is another day the Romney campaign loses.

Check out 538.... Right now Obama is in the best position poll wise than he has ever been in the race, and this is after months of terrible economic news. Romney needs to change the subject , badly, but he can't until he releases the tax returns, but the very fact that he hasn't releasedthem yet suggests that doing so would sink his campaign.

This ladies and gentlemen is hardball politics at its absolute finest, this is the Chicago style shiat that the republicans have in their heart of hearts been hoping the democrats were to ball-less to ever use. Romney is on the ground and they are going to keep stabbing until he stops moving. I almost feel bad for him.
 
2012-08-03 04:08:34 PM

Gimmick: "Better to remain silent and be thought a tax cheat fool than to release your records speak and remove all doubt" - Abraham Lincoln


The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine. - Abraham Lincoln
 
2012-08-03 04:13:30 PM

mrshowrules: WombatControl: How interesting is it that there's not a single mention of the unemployment numbers on Fark today... guess a tweet by Fred Thompson or another horse-beating thread about Romney's taxes is more important than another month of 8%+ unemployment.

/ Obama 2012: Confuse. Inveigle. Obfuscate.

The U3 is important again? How come Conservatives only consider this indicator as important when it increases? Since Obama signed his first budget, the U3 has dropped from 10% to 8.3%.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-03 04:16:23 PM
I've heard from very creditable sources that Harry Reid molested young boys in his senate office. I can't confirm this but the word is out Mr. Reid. Now you have to prove that you didn't molest all those young boys.
 
2012-08-03 04:17:06 PM
One would think that someone who believes that the income tax code as currently constituted is both economically unwise and onerous on "job creators" would be anxious to prove that point with his own personal experience with the income tax as a "job creator". One would think that, anyway.
 
2012-08-03 04:19:25 PM
Oh noes, labor force participation is dropping! I mean there's not any demographic shift (such as baby-boomers retiring) that could explain this national catastrophe!
 
2012-08-03 04:22:39 PM

amiable: This ladies and gentlemen is hardball politics at its absolute finest, this is the Chicago style shiat that the republicans have in their heart of hearts been hoping the democrats were to ball-less to ever use. Romney is on the ground and they are going to keep stabbing until he stops moving. I almost feel bad for him.


Well, no. That's kind of the issue. Obama's campaign chided McCain for not releasing his medical report early on as well. McCain got hit on it and then released the report. It was a jab. A test to see what McCain would do. Obama didn't really think anything terrible would come out of those medical records.

Asking for Romney's tax returns was the same thing. Push him, see what happens, and then move on knowing more about how your opponent reacts. Instead Romney disintegrated. It's just by luck and Romney's poor management that this small early test turned into a firestorm. Obama hasn't even started to play hardball.
 
2012-08-03 04:23:30 PM

amiable: The point of this isn't to make Romney do anything, it's to keep the story on the front page... The really hilarious part is that this is nothing but upside for the Obama campaign; if Romney surrogates attack Reid the story stays on the front page, if they release the tax returns then they have to deal with consequences of the release, ignoring it at this point isn't an option.

Reid is retiring after his next term most likely and like the honey-badger, he does not give a fark. So if you think he gives one fark about a bunch of yahoos calling him a pederast because they think it somehow proves a point I have news for you blockheads: he loves it. Because there are 99 days left before the election and every day Mitt Romney and his surrogates spend defending his decision not to release his tax returns or attacking people who are attacking him for not releasing his tax returns is another day the Romney campaign loses.

Check out 538.... Right now Obama is in the best position poll wise than he has ever been in the race, and this is after months of terrible economic news. Romney needs to change the subject , badly, but he can't until he releases the tax returns, but the very fact that he hasn't releasedthem yet suggests that doing so would sink his campaign.

This ladies and gentlemen is hardball politics at its absolute finest, this is the Chicago style shiat that the republicans have in their heart of hearts been hoping the democrats were to ball-less to ever use. Romney is on the ground and they are going to keep stabbing until he stops moving. I almost feel bad for him.


Except Romney has been gathering money all summer while Obama has been spending it.

Right now, the polls don't matter that much. This is the deadest time in a campaign - most Americans are on vacation and Olympics are on. The tracking polls have not changed that much - other than the Pew poll that's a laughable outlier.

Yes, 538 has Obama up in their prediction pool. But that's a prediction, not a poll. All that's saying is based on what Nate Silver's model thinks, if all the trends remain constant, Obama will have a 70% chance of winning. But the trends will not remain constant. Romney isn't collecting cash to hoard it, he's collecting cash to unleash it on Obama in the fall when A:) he can start spending on the general election and B.) voters are actually paying attention to the race.

If you back away from all the polling and look at the economic numbers, Obama's approval numbers, and the right track/wrong track figures, Obama's chances of winning don't look all that good.

It's fair to say Obama's ahead at this point in the game, but the only poll that really matters is in November, and I suspect all the Obama Cheerleaders proclaiming assured victory now might not be quite so pleased in the fall.
 
2012-08-03 04:36:22 PM
Believe what you want to believe wombat. Romney will have a large warchest for sure, but advertising doesn't help much if your product is crap. (ask American car manufacturers in the 80's about this). Obama may not have the cash advantage going into the fall, but he will be f