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(The New American)   Fluoride shown to lower IQ. Tin foil stock skyrocketing   (thenewamerican.com) divider line 194
    More: Unlikely, fluorides, Environmental Health Perspectives, stock, fluoridation, Fluoride Action Network, blood sera, placenta, tooth decay  
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6610 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Aug 2012 at 4:12 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-02 09:48:15 PM

DIGITALgimpus: Water intoxication is death by water. What else are liberals trying to force down our throats?

This is why only soft drinks should be consumed.

/derp


caffeine is SOO AWESOME
ITS TEH DRINK OF TEH GODS!!
 
2012-08-02 09:49:54 PM
did the study account for the state of US Education?
 
2012-08-02 09:53:13 PM

Quaker: Sir Not Sure The Unscannable: Quaker: dahmers love zombie: cman: Pocket Ninja: unlikely: Oh FFS. Read the Harvard article - it is all about the concentration, the amount.

In adequate concentration anything is bad for you.

This is a valid point, but I think it deliberately ignores the fact that no studies to date have really demonstrated that the chemical reagents present in jet plane contrails aren't enhancing the fluoride effect. Plus countless other extraplotables, including resonant atmospheric radiation from Fukushima, electrical transmogrification from power line clusters, and frakking, and who knows what the real long-term health effects are. It's scary stuff.

SHUT THE fark UP ASSHOLE

You are gonna trigger the Reptilian bankers to shut Fark down to withhold the truth.

Hah! I'm already in psionic contact with the Grays. They'll take care of this.

Not that I think any of that Reptillian/Gray stuff is true (I suppose even if it were I would never be able to know for sure), but treating conspiracy theories and the like in an insulting way is what allows actual conspiracies to go on. If in 1955 you said to someone, "You know, the CIA is kidnapping American and Canadian citizens and subjecting them to a variety of mind control experiments," people would have reacted with that same kind of glib disbelief. But as we later found out, they would have been wrong (Pops). Considering this kind of stuff actually happened, it makes me reconsider a lot of things that people immediately dismiss just because it sounds crazy.

Excellent. Now you will question everything and live in fear!

That doesn't necessarily mean living in fear. You can be afraid of rational possibilities without letting it control your life. That's why we wear seat belts when we're in a car, but we don't have a panic attack over the potential for a major accident. Also, I think most people would agree that questioning everything is, unfortunately, a good policy in this day and age.


THIS

To paraphrase Noam Chomsky: the term "conspiracy theory" is thrown about to arbitrarily discourage institutional analysis.
 
2012-08-02 09:53:32 PM
untaken_name

Considering the study you linked is from the scientific equivalent of Geocities Jim and his Chemtrails theories, I don't really feel I have to. I know you're smart, I have your fav'ed. But. Seriously? Anti flouride? If you want the studies, someone did us the courtesy of condensing the issue.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy
 
2012-08-02 10:13:34 PM
in a few generations your descendants will be hopped up on the Brawndo so what's the difference?

/it's got electrolytes
 
2012-08-02 10:14:42 PM

Bathia_Mapes: cman: Did you know that sun rays can result in skin cancer?

Did you know that dihydrogen monoxide, a substance found on every corner of our planet, can kill you? FFS, it's even in the food we eat.


I've heard of that stuff. The CDC said it kills about 4000 people in the US annually. It also seems to have something to do with the Y chromosome, as 80% of the victims are male. Worst of all, the FDA doesn't even require companies to label it in the ingredients.
 
2012-08-02 10:22:37 PM

SanjiSasuke: Bathia_Mapes: cman: Did you know that sun rays can result in skin cancer?

Did you know that dihydrogen monoxide, a substance found on every corner of our planet, can kill you? FFS, it's even in the food we eat.

I've heard of that stuff. The CDC said it kills about 4000 people in the US annually. It also seems to have something to do with the Y chromosome, as 80% of the victims are male. Worst of all, the FDA doesn't even require companies to label it in the ingredients.


Although from time to time it is labelled, but as aqua. Such deception!
 
2012-08-02 11:03:01 PM

Eapoe6:

Ignorant and stupid is no way to go through life, even if you are an American Idiot.

I'll take your word for it.

If you think Fluoride is safe, swallow a big dollop tooth paste and let me know how that turns out.

No thanks. The label on the tube that I have says not to.
 
2012-08-02 11:23:28 PM

Mr. Eugenides: OK, from the abstract, it says "Results: The standardized weighted mean difference in IQ score between exposed and reference populations was -0.45 (95% CI -0.56 to -0.35) using a random-effects model. Thus, children in high fluoride areas had significantly lower IQ scores than those who lived in low fluoride areas. " Now, I'm not sure what they mean by -0.45. If that's half an IQ point, that doesn't seem like a "significant difference."

That said, it does look like the result warrants additional study but probably not regulation at this point.


It means "statistically significant" - in other words, they're 95% confident that the difference observed between populations occurs because of an underlying difference, instead of random sampling effects.
 
2012-08-02 11:45:07 PM

hugram: RexTalionis: You're not supposed to eat a tube of toothpaste, you morons.

I have to ask... did they eat a tube of toothpaste because they are morons... or are they morons because they ate a tube of toothpaste?


I kind of imagine that you have to not be very smart to begin with, to eat a tube of toothpaste.
 
2012-08-02 11:53:21 PM
Well no shiat Sherlock.

That's why governments do it. Why would you want the masses to be able to think for themselves, you just need a bunch of dumb drones that work for you until they die.
 
2012-08-03 12:15:53 AM

rhondajeremy: I have an honest question. If it doesn't do anything, why did the Nazis put it in the concentration camps' water? Really doubt it was to improve their oral health. Does anyone know why they did that?

//don't have a problem with fluoride but being that products like Paxil are derived from it, I try to watch my intake (like anything else-moderation)


Um, yeah, about that.

I'm having a little trouble accepting that your question is honest. If you are trolling, this would be a good time to fess up. Because the alternative conclusion is even less flattering.
 
2012-08-03 12:26:01 AM

quantumtheo: Nobody does their homework, they just assume things are true and spout off something idiotic


You mean like how there's a poison control phone number on toothpaste? How hard would that have been to research?

/well, okay, maybe for you it would be
 
2012-08-03 12:28:56 AM

newton: Baby has no teeth to brush.


Toddlers do. Or did you not know that?

Also, developing teeth and teeth coming in are the same thing as regular teeth. Even baby teeth deserve protection, don't you think?
 
2012-08-03 12:43:25 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Did you know that people regularly put an explosive soft metal and a poisonous green gas onto their food?


Yes, and my doctor has asked me to cut down on that. But I still regularly inhale a highly reactive and flammable gas, and sometimes expel others. I also consume some electrically active metals, pretty much every day, some of them subject to corrosion once ingested. Moreover, at least once a week, I go out of my way to come into close proximity to dangerously flammable and toxic complex organic compounds, which I spend the rest of the week actively converting into toxic pollutants, global warming agents, and gases that humans cannot breathe. And once in awhile, I ingest or inhale complex alkaloids, which then inspire me to consume unhealthy foods, often loaded with explosive soft metal and poisonous gas. I'm sure my doctor would not approve.
 
2012-08-03 12:47:00 AM

Benni K Rok: unlikely: Pocket Ninja: unlikely: Oh FFS. Read the Harvard article - it is all about the concentration, the amount.

In adequate concentration anything is bad for you.

This is a valid point, but I think it deliberately ignores the fact that no studies to date have really demonstrated that the chemical reagents present in jet plane contrails aren't enhancing the fluoride effect. Plus countless other extraplotables, including resonant atmospheric radiation from Fukushima, electrical transmogrification from power line clusters, and frakking, and who knows what the real long-term health effects are. It's scary stuff.

Jesus, I hadn't considered that.

Plus I never even considered the goddamn vaccines. COW pox? They shot me full of COW POX when I was a kid?

You can filter the water, but how am I supposed to filter out the radiation?

Rad-X. If that fails, use Rad-Away.


::shrug:: I prefer Rad-B-Gon myself, but only because it's made here.
 
2012-08-03 12:50:12 AM

Eapoe6: The main ingredient in rat poison is sodium fluoride.

Google Stalin, Hitler and Fluoride in one search.

Then Google Fluoride, Edward Bernays and Alcoa

Before you scoff, get some info.

Ignorant and stupid is no way to go through life, even if you are an American Idiot.

If you think Fluoride is safe, swallow a big dollop tooth paste and let me know how that turns out.


Someone apparently believes that whatever you find online is good information.
 
2012-08-03 12:51:14 AM
O hell, I did it again. Stupid zeros.
 
2012-08-03 12:55:03 AM

tirob: Chlorine, an unnatural toxin so dangerous in large amounts that it was used as a poison gas during World War I, is also put into our water supply (in small amounts). The idea is to prevent cholera, a disease that killed tens of millions of people around the world in the ~century after 1831. Should we remove chlorine from our water, too?


When you drink from municipal and some natural sources water not treated with chlorine, you can die in days or become sick within hours. When you drink the same water not treated with fluoride, you can die or become sick within?

No, that's right, you don't die, you just might have a higher chance of tooth problems. This can be solved on an individual basis with toothpastes and mouthwashes. No need to put the chemical into everyone's water.
 
2012-08-03 01:28:42 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Eapoe6: The main ingredient in rat poison is sodium fluoride.

Google Stalin, Hitler and Fluoride in one search.

Then Google Fluoride, Edward Bernays and Alcoa

Before you scoff, get some info.

Ignorant and stupid is no way to go through life, even if you are an American Idiot.

If you think Fluoride is safe, swallow a big dollop tooth paste and let me know how that turns out.

Someone apparently believes that whatever you find online is good information.


That seems to be the basis for the counter-arguments as well. Just sayin'.
 
2012-08-03 02:09:39 AM
Just wait until Jenny McCarthy hears about this!
 
2012-08-03 02:26:41 AM
Subby obviously was raised on a diet of city water and toothpaste.

It's a valid study, moran.
 
2012-08-03 02:37:04 AM

RexTalionis: You're not supposed to eat a tube of toothpaste, you morons.


Flourise is in tap water too, idiot.
 
2012-08-03 03:50:28 AM

untaken_name: lewismarktwo: So, don't ever brush your teeth and only drink soda kids.

If fluoride really prevented tooth decay, do you think dentists would push it so hard? Ask yourself this: are there MORE or FEWER dentists per capita now than when fluoridation of water began?


digboston.com
http://digboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Keanu_Whoa1.png
 
rmz
2012-08-03 03:50:32 AM
 
2012-08-03 05:59:04 AM

quantumtheo: Nobody does their homework, they just assume things are true and spout off something idiotic


Eapoe6: Ignorant and stupid is no way to go through life, even if you are an American Idiot.


I love that conspiracy theorists do this. They're always so keen to pat themselves on the back for believing in this crap.
 
2012-08-03 07:11:07 AM

pedrop357: tirob: Chlorine, an unnatural toxin so dangerous in large amounts that it was used as a poison gas during World War I, is also put into our water supply (in small amounts). The idea is to prevent cholera, a disease that killed tens of millions of people around the world in the ~century after 1831. Should we remove chlorine from our water, too?

When you drink from municipal and some natural sources water not treated with chlorine, you can die in days or become sick within hours. When you drink the same water not treated with fluoride, you can die or become sick within?

No, that's right, you don't die, you just might have a higher chance of tooth problems. This can be solved on an individual basis with toothpastes and mouthwashes. No need to put the chemical into everyone's water.


Thank you for pointing this out to me.

Read the post that I answered. Link (yesterday at 5:38 pm) It's a long rant about how fluoride is poisonous, blah blah blah. Sure it is; it can kill you if you ingest enough of it at once. So can cayenne pepper sauce.

No, there's no *need* to fluoridate water. But based on what I've read I would say that there are benefits in doing so that far outweigh the infinitesimal danger posed by the presence of minuscule amounts of the stuff in the water supply. Municipalities have been treating water with fluoride for over half a century now, and after all this time, the only malady that fluoride is known to have caused is paranoia in the minds of Birchers and other like-minded people.
 
2012-08-03 08:39:52 AM
I grew up with fluoride in the water, i was tested at 172..... yeah... i believe this article...
 
2012-08-03 08:48:24 AM
Is on well water with a reverse osmosis system so I'm getting a kick...
 
2012-08-03 09:21:32 AM

tom baker's scarf: a couple of thoughts. I'm not saying it isn't/is true but some useful information would be useful.

Assuming it does lower IQ, by how much?
Is there a threshold amount where IQ isn't affected but tooth decay is attenuated? if there is how wide is the spread?
I though kids only drink pop now. wasn't soda the liquid boogie-man the other day?


Pop is made with municipal water, not Evian.

Eliminating fluoride completely from the water supply doesn't increase tooth decay. Fluoridated water is 99% ineffective at strengthening teeth because of the thin film of bacterial excrement that coats the teeth. Acids wash this away (lemon juice, soda), as do alcohols in part. The preferred method is to physically abrade the substance away, preferably with a stiff boar bristle brush and an abrasive paste containing a mineral polishing powder. The polishing powder usually contains fluoride, which can work to great effect to harden teeth; this is advisable because the abrading compound does strip the enamel from teeth..
 
2012-08-03 09:28:52 AM

Mija: RexTalionis: You're not supposed to eat a tube of toothpaste, you morons.

Flourise is in tap water too, idiot.


Not in the level of concentration that would cause you harm, unlike toothpaste, YOU CLOD.
 
2012-08-03 09:47:22 AM

bluefoxicy: tom baker's scarf: a couple of thoughts. I'm not saying it isn't/is true but some useful information would be useful.

Assuming it does lower IQ, by how much?
Is there a threshold amount where IQ isn't affected but tooth decay is attenuated? if there is how wide is the spread?
I though kids only drink pop now. wasn't soda the liquid boogie-man the other day?

Pop is made with municipal water, not Evian.

Eliminating fluoride completely from the water supply doesn't increase tooth decay. Fluoridated water is 99% ineffective at strengthening teeth because of the thin film of bacterial excrement that coats the teeth. Acids wash this away (lemon juice, soda), as do alcohols in part. The preferred method is to physically abrade the substance away, preferably with a stiff boar bristle brush and an abrasive paste containing a mineral polishing powder. The polishing powder usually contains fluoride, which can work to great effect to harden teeth; this is advisable because the abrading compound does strip the enamel from teeth..


Fluoridating the water supply was what seemed like a good idea back in the 50's.
Unfortunately, it turns out to be a poor way of delivering the treatment.
Like so many things, just stop.
 
2012-08-03 09:47:54 AM

wmack: Subby obviously was raised on a diet of city water and toothpaste.

It's a valid study, moran.


valid study
 
2012-08-03 10:37:27 AM

unlikely: Oh FFS. Read the Harvard article - it is all about the concentration, the amount.

In adequate concentration anything is bad for you.


They compared the actual IQs of people living in areas of high fluoride concentration and areas of low fluoride concentration and found that higher concentration areas had people with lower IQ. It's just a correlation, but they seem to imply that the concentrations that are actually being used in some places has something to do with lower IQs.
 
2012-08-03 12:07:20 PM
this is just a conspiracy, orchestrated by the bottling companies, to get the sheeple to buy water
 
2012-08-03 12:23:44 PM
i1102.photobucket.com

/warned us.
 
2012-08-03 12:25:23 PM

jigger: They compared the actual IQs of people living in areas of high fluoride concentration and areas of low fluoride concentration and found that higher concentration areas had people with lower IQ. It's just a correlation, but they seem to imply that the concentrations that are actually being used in some places has something to do with lower IQs.


The problem is that the studies were not just flawed, but in a large portion of them the reference (low fluoride) areas used had as much or more fluoride in them than the CDC recommendation of .7 mg/L. Of the 27 studies the meta-analysis used only 8 compared areas with less fluoride than the CDC recommends. And three of those had secondary exposures. In fact if you remove the studies with secondary exposure or those that used air intake instead of water, there were only nine studies in their analysis.

That's ignoring the fact that the authors themselves admit that the studies were generally not of good quality, and that they used a method that has poor small sample size characteristics.

Is it possible that there this needs further study? Absolutely. But not through such poor and insufficient analysis.
 
2012-08-03 12:26:07 PM
Lowers IQ-- Good for TSA recruitment.
 
2012-08-03 04:24:55 PM

mbillips: ZipSplat: LOL, yeah, this site doesn't even pass the first step of the smell test.

[puu.sh image 232x259]

Fine, here's the original study. Just because nutjobs go on and on about fluoride doesn't mean it can't have undocumented deleterious health effects. Science, people. Let go of your prejudices and review the factual evidence.

/Cost-benefit. Do slightly dumber kids outweigh the vast increase in dental health? Tooth decay doesn't just cause painful eating; it can cause heart disease.


The study doesn't simply say that fluoride causes decreased IQ. They did a metanalysis of Chinese studies and found a correlation between fluoride level and small fluctuations in IQ. There is no mention of the dosages of fluoride (we're talking about mostly Chinese studies here), no mention of any controls (for instance, would the Chinese more heavily fluoridate in rural areas where fewer educated people live?).

It was a simple correlation drawn from a metanalysis. Those aren't worthless, but they are worthless for drawing causal conclusions. Metanalyses are used to look for areas of further study, you DO NOT use them to identify specific causalities. Reading this and concluding that "well, there you go. Fluoride makes you dumber" is an example of research misuse. It's why the controversy exists in the science community over whether or not to make preliminary research public.
 
2012-08-03 04:42:13 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: earthworm2.0: know how I can tell there are no chemists in this thread?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x108]


wink wink
 
2012-08-03 04:43:52 PM

unlikely: Oh FFS. Read the Harvard article - it is all about the concentration, the amount.

In adequate concentration anything is bad for you.


Not pussy!
 
2012-08-03 06:02:57 PM

ZipSplat: mbillips: ZipSplat: LOL, yeah, this site doesn't even pass the first step of the smell test.

[puu.sh image 232x259]

Fine, here's the original study. Just because nutjobs go on and on about fluoride doesn't mean it can't have undocumented deleterious health effects. Science, people. Let go of your prejudices and review the factual evidence.

/Cost-benefit. Do slightly dumber kids outweigh the vast increase in dental health? Tooth decay doesn't just cause painful eating; it can cause heart disease.

The study doesn't simply say that fluoride causes decreased IQ. They did a metanalysis of Chinese studies and found a correlation between fluoride level and small fluctuations in IQ. There is no mention of the dosages of fluoride (we're talking about mostly Chinese studies here), no mention of any controls (for instance, would the Chinese more heavily fluoridate in rural areas where fewer educated people live?).

It was a simple correlation drawn from a metanalysis. Those aren't worthless, but they are worthless for drawing causal conclusions. Metanalyses are used to look for areas of further study, you DO NOT use them to identify specific causalities. Reading this and concluding that "well, there you go. Fluoride makes you dumber" is an example of research misuse. It's why the controversy exists in the science community over whether or not to make preliminary research public.


Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but do you know how I know you didn't read the paper?
 
2012-08-04 12:57:22 AM

pellies: Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but do you know how I know you didn't read the paper?


I read the abstract. Did I miss something?
 
2012-08-04 12:59:10 AM

ZipSplat: pellies: Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but do you know how I know you didn't read the paper?

I read the abstract. Did I miss something?


Oh, the dosages are in the AOP. Derp.
 
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