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(WTKR)   Let's try this again: There are no 'secret' Navy SEALs, so stop claiming to be one while you scam people by claiming to raise money for 9/11 victims   (wtkr.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, Navy SEAL, Fake SEAL, Special Warfare, charity fraud, Naval Academy  
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6021 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Aug 2012 at 12:32 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-02 07:32:07 AM  
I wish all the GOP-tards who claim to revere the military would get off their asses and come up with a
law that frames false claims of military service in terms of fraud (Stolen Valor was apparently framed in
terms of simple falsehoods, which apparently are protected 1st amendment speech). It would be about
the only thing that both sides of the aisle could get behind and give them some rare good PR, but will
they do it? Doubtful.
 
2012-08-02 12:34:59 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: I wish all the GOP-tards who claim to revere the military would get off their asses and come up with a
law that frames false claims of military service in terms of fraud (Stolen Valor was apparently framed in
terms of simple falsehoods, which apparently are protected 1st amendment speech). It would be about
the only thing that both sides of the aisle could get behind and give them some rare good PR, but will
they do it? Doubtful.


This asshole is being sued for fraud. What would your proposed law change?

/I'm the Queen of France
 
2012-08-02 12:35:56 PM  
He sounds like a typical Republican.
 
2012-08-02 12:36:43 PM  
Fair enough. Stop Falling for it and I think we may have an accord here.
 
2012-08-02 12:37:38 PM  
The ones from the Marine Core are perfectly legit, though.
 
2012-08-02 12:38:34 PM  
At least the fake ex-snipers usually just stick to dating sites.
 
2012-08-02 12:39:08 PM  
I was a Combat Vet with the Navy Seals.


/ too young for the tunnel rats
 
2012-08-02 12:39:31 PM  
Bullshiat, subby, I was with the secret Green Berets, Special Unit Battalions, Commando Airborne Tactics... Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion. Yeah, it was real hush hush.
 
2012-08-02 12:40:32 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: I wish all the GOP-tards who claim to revere the military would get off their asses and come up with a
law that frames false claims of military service in terms of fraud (Stolen Valor was apparently framed in
terms of simple falsehoods, which apparently are protected 1st amendment speech). It would be about
the only thing that both sides of the aisle could get behind and give them some rare good PR, but will
they do it? Doubtful.



Many GOP-tards prefer enforcing existing laws to enacting new ones.
 
2012-08-02 12:40:35 PM  
The Aussies and Kiwis have organizations composed of vets who ferret out turds like this. The Brits have ARRSE, which has the Waltenkommando to ferret out posers. We Yanks have some small organizations like that, but nothing on their scale. Just look up the Walt threads on ARRSE (Army Rumour Service), they're frighteningly good at it.

Waltenkommando

The Forum for Walt outing
 
2012-08-02 12:40:36 PM  

crab66: He sounds like a typical Republican.


Well he does certainly appear to be very bootstrappy.
 
2012-08-02 12:40:53 PM  
but what about SNASA?
 
2012-08-02 12:43:12 PM  

malaktaus: Bullshiat, subby, I was with the secret Green Berets, Special Unit Battalions, Commando Airborne Tactics... Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion. Yeah, it was real hush hush.


Did you ever operate over Macho Grande?
 
2012-08-02 12:43:44 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: I wish all the GOP-tards who claim to revere the military would get off their asses and come up with a
law that frames false claims of military service in terms of fraud (Stolen Valor was apparently framed in
terms of simple falsehoods, which apparently are protected 1st amendment speech). It would be about
the only thing that both sides of the aisle could get behind and give them some rare good PR, but will
they do it? Doubtful.


Most of the Stolen Valor types I know of here in Las Vegas are GOP-tards.
 
2012-08-02 12:44:51 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: I wish all the GOP-tards who claim to revere the military would get off their asses and come up with a law that frames false claims of military service in terms of fraud


Like a law against "fraud"?
 
2012-08-02 12:45:51 PM  
Shipley is one awesome former Team member. I love how he outs these farkwads. Served for six years and nothing gets to me more than those that fake their service records. I watched many a shipmate try to pull similar shiat while I was in.

/humansarestupid
 
2012-08-02 12:47:01 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Did you ever operate over Macho Grande?


Over Macho Grande? I'll never get over Macho Grande.
 
2012-08-02 12:49:32 PM  
One of the articles linked off of TFA tells how to spot a fake SEAL:

Real SEALs don't brag about missions or medals, and they don't introduce themselves to strangers as SEALs.
"When someone tells you there are a Navy SEAL, don't believe it." He says.
"If a guy walks in with a SEAL Team shirt on, SEAL Team hat, SEAL Team license plate, he is damn well not a SEAL," says Diane.


I've known a couple of SEALs and this is spot on. They don't brag.
 
2012-08-02 12:54:41 PM  
Many GOP-tards prefer enforcing existing laws to enacting new ones.

Unless of course they can enact as many laws as they can to restrict women's and gay rights. Oh! And if the law will make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Oh! And to make sure all those dirty darkies don't get health insurance.
 
2012-08-02 12:55:44 PM  
I worked with a guy in his 20s who always claims to be an Ex-Navy Seal.

He got kicked out of Boot camp for lying about an injury... but still has all that shiat on his car like "NAVY VETERAN" and whatnot.

Kind of pathetic.
 
2012-08-02 12:56:05 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: malaktaus: Bullshiat, subby, I was with the secret Green Berets, Special Unit Battalions, Commando Airborne Tactics... Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion. Yeah, it was real hush hush.

Did you ever operate over Macho Grande?


Surely you can't be serious. Agent Orange would never divulge where he operated.
 
2012-08-02 12:56:48 PM  

malaktaus: Bullshiat, subby, I was with the secret Green Berets, Special Unit Battalions, Commando Airborne Tactics... Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion. Yeah, it was real hush hush.


Why do you need different tactics for jumping out of an airplane without your underwear? Does it really make that much of a difference?
 
2012-08-02 01:01:46 PM  
i1240.photobucket.com

What a secret seal may look like
 
2012-08-02 01:01:56 PM  
Came for FlyNavy reference, leaving mildly disappointed.
 
2012-08-02 01:02:21 PM  
The key to impersonating military personnel is to pick something small like Honor Guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns. I never lie personally because I have an exemplary record as the door gunner for the Space Shuttle.
 
2012-08-02 01:02:48 PM  

trotsky: ARRSE (Army Rumour Service)


You can't b e serious.
 
2012-08-02 01:03:00 PM  

Theaetetus: DjangoStonereaver: I wish all the GOP-tards who claim to revere the military would get off their asses and come up with a law that frames false claims of military service in terms of fraud

Like a law against "fraud"?


As I recall, the problem with Stolen Valor was that it criminalized stating that you were in the military,
participated in military operations, or won some sort of medal or commendation, even if it wasn't done
in conjunction with the perpetration of fraud for monetary or material gain. Obviously, laws covering
fraud and perjury would be in force if you, say, were trying to raise money or claim veteran's
benefits. (Let's leave the stiff UCMJ penalties for un-earned honours out of this since they wouldn't
apply unless the claimant was still in the Reserves or the National Guard).

But while I am a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, I do strongly feel that given the esteem with
which military service is held in this country, simply claiming to be, say, an ex-SEAL to simply give
whatever you are saying extra credibility is a form of fraud rather than simple lying (as the Supreme
Court held), and that the claim itself isn't lying but an actual fraud that should be criminalized.

I am not a lawyer, though, and my understanding of the legal reasoning for invalidating Stolen Valor
may be flawed, but there has to be a way to craft a law that would achieve the intent of discouraging
these Internet Toughguys from claiming to be that which they were not without trampling on their
right of free expression.
 
2012-08-02 01:04:19 PM  
But, when I watched "the Unit" all those guys were secret special forces from the typing pool

moviemusicmore.com
 
2012-08-02 01:04:42 PM  
PSA
media.cleveland.com
What a seal vet might look like.
 
2012-08-02 01:05:38 PM  
Every SEAL I've met in my time in the Marines has never bragged about being a SEAL. The ones who have to announce it to everyone and put the stickers and shiat all over their cars are, I believe 9 times out of 10, completely full of shiat.

/Nobody would ever accuse me about lying about being a Marine
//Because liars never brag that they were MP's with a small non-deployable garrison unit
 
2012-08-02 01:05:48 PM  

LaraAmber: malaktaus: Bullshiat, subby, I was with the secret Green Berets, Special Unit Battalions, Commando Airborne Tactics... Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion. Yeah, it was real hush hush.

Why do you need different tactics for jumping out of an airplane without your underwear? Does it really make that much of a difference?


If you don't position your hands just right, you can get a nasty wind burn.
 
2012-08-02 01:06:12 PM  
 
2012-08-02 01:07:52 PM  

tmonsta: The key to impersonating military personnel is to pick something small like Honor Guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns. I never lie personally because I have an exemplary record as the door gunner for the Space Shuttle.


I work for NASA so I'm getting a kick out of your post...


YOU BETTER NOT BE WEARING MY PATCH BIATCH UNLESS YOU EARNED IT!!!

d2jxk7u2ol2fk7.cloudfront.net
 
2012-08-02 01:08:12 PM  
I was at Listening Post called Leghorn along the Laos Border in '69. SOG... special group indeed.
Monitored traffic down the Ho Chi Mihn thingy...
Relayed messages to BLACK OPS guys up in Quang Dong.

I'm going to write a book about it and donate the proceeds to victims of Feline Leukemia (#1 killer of cats)

It was a special time for a young man....because I was only 8.
The terrain was terrible for riding my BigWheel.
I once foiled a sapper attack with half a slinky and my stretch Armstrong.

/buy the book
 
2012-08-02 01:09:13 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: But while I am a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, I do strongly feel that given the esteem with
which military service is held in this country, simply claiming to be, say, an ex-SEAL to simply give
whatever you are saying extra credibility is a form of fraud rather than simple lying (as the Supreme
Court held), and that the claim itself isn't lying but an actual fraud that should be criminalized.


What about claiming to be, say, an ex-doctor? Or just making a false claim of some specific accomplishment (e.g. having saved some lives somewhere) without making mentioning any particular occupation? There are many, many lies that a person could tell if all he wants is esteem and credibility.
 
2012-08-02 01:11:03 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: Theaetetus: DjangoStonereaver: I wish all the GOP-tards who claim to revere the military would get off their asses and come up with a law that frames false claims of military service in terms of fraud

Like a law against "fraud"?

As I recall, the problem with Stolen Valor was that it criminalized stating that you were in the military,
participated in military operations, or won some sort of medal or commendation, even if it wasn't done
in conjunction with the perpetration of fraud for monetary or material gain. Obviously, laws covering
fraud and perjury would be in force if you, say, were trying to raise money or claim veteran's
benefits.


Yep, which is the situation in this article - he was raising charity funds and misappropriating them.

But while I am a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, I do strongly feel that given the esteem with
which military service is held in this country, simply claiming to be, say, an ex-SEAL to simply give
whatever you are saying extra credibility is a form of fraud rather than simple lying (as the Supreme
Court held), and that the claim itself isn't lying but an actual fraud that should be criminalized.


So you're not a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, and you believe that some speech should be criminalized. And more interestingly, you believe that "simple lying" should be allowed, unless it involves a subject related to the government, at which point it should be criminal.
 
2012-08-02 01:12:07 PM  
This isn't something new, though. 2.7 million people served in Vietnam. 13.8 million people claimed they did.

\Spanish-American war vet
\\I was a Rough Rider
 
2012-08-02 01:13:17 PM  

Theaetetus: So you're not a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, and you believe that some speech should be criminalized. And more interestingly, you believe that "simple lying" should be allowed, unless it involves a subject related to the government, at which point it should be criminal.


I think it has to do more with a fetishization of the military rather than government in general. I doubt he'd support laws making it illegal to lie about being a postal worker.
 
2012-08-02 01:16:51 PM  

Theaetetus: DjangoStonereaver: Theaetetus: DjangoStonereaver: I wish all the GOP-tards who claim to revere the military would get off their asses and come up with a law that frames false claims of military service in terms of fraud

Like a law against "fraud"?

As I recall, the problem with Stolen Valor was that it criminalized stating that you were in the military,
participated in military operations, or won some sort of medal or commendation, even if it wasn't done
in conjunction with the perpetration of fraud for monetary or material gain. Obviously, laws covering
fraud and perjury would be in force if you, say, were trying to raise money or claim veteran's
benefits.

Yep, which is the situation in this article - he was raising charity funds and misappropriating them.

But while I am a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, I do strongly feel that given the esteem with
which military service is held in this country, simply claiming to be, say, an ex-SEAL to simply give
whatever you are saying extra credibility is a form of fraud rather than simple lying (as the Supreme
Court held), and that the claim itself isn't lying but an actual fraud that should be criminalized.

So you're not a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, and you believe that some speech should be criminalized. And more interestingly, you believe that "simple lying" should be allowed, unless it involves a subject related to the government, at which point it should be criminal.


I don't believe lying should be allowed, but the Supreme Court does; ISTR that part of the justification
for overturning Stolen Valor used the example of barroom claims of achievements.

I do realize that this is one of those issues of "I know it when I see it"; the problem becomes how to
quantify it so as not to impinge freedom of speech (sort of like obscenity).
 
2012-08-02 01:17:49 PM  

Biological Ali: DjangoStonereaver: But while I am a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, I do strongly feel that given the esteem with
which military service is held in this country, simply claiming to be, say, an ex-SEAL to simply give
whatever you are saying extra credibility is a form of fraud rather than simple lying (as the Supreme
Court held), and that the claim itself isn't lying but an actual fraud that should be criminalized.

What about claiming to be, say, an ex-doctor? Or just making a false claim of some specific accomplishment (e.g. having saved some lives somewhere) without making mentioning any particular occupation? There are many, many lies that a person could tell if all he wants is esteem and credibility.


CSB When my wife was going through grad school we attended several functions. I got tired of people asking me what I was going to school for or what my degree was in so I started telling them I was on sabbatical from Harvard Med School. It worked :D /CSB
 
2012-08-02 01:18:09 PM  

Biological Ali


Theaetetus: So you're not a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, and you believe that some speech should be criminalized. And more interestingly, you believe that "simple lying" should be allowed, unless it involves a subject related to the government, at which point it should be criminal.

I think it has to do more with a fetishization of the military rather than government in general. I doubt he'd support laws making it illegal to lie about being a postal worker.


I thought Django was saying something like 'using false claims of military service, etc to gain an unearned benefit or advantage should be considered fraud'.
 
2012-08-02 01:19:46 PM  
I hold a gold belt in the fighting style of the super deluxe secretive commando elite ranger core seal cubs squad.
 
2012-08-02 01:21:31 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Biological Ali

Theaetetus: So you're not a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, and you believe that some speech should be criminalized. And more interestingly, you believe that "simple lying" should be allowed, unless it involves a subject related to the government, at which point it should be criminal.

I think it has to do more with a fetishization of the military rather than government in general. I doubt he'd support laws making it illegal to lie about being a postal worker.


I thought Django was saying something like 'using false claims of military service, etc to gain an unearned benefit or advantage should be considered fraud'.


Depends on how broadly you define "benefit or advantage". Specifically, he said that lying about military service for "credibility" should be considered fraud.
 
2012-08-02 01:21:50 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: I thought Django was saying something like 'using false claims of military service, etc to gain an unearned benefit or advantage should be considered fraud'.


I'm fairly certain that's already illegal, much like it would be if you used any false claim to gain any specific and identifiable benefit.
 
2012-08-02 01:22:37 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: I don't believe lying should be allowed, but the Supreme Court does; ISTR that part of the justification
for overturning Stolen Valor used the example of barroom claims of achievements.

I do realize that this is one of those issues of "I know it when I see it"; the problem becomes how to
quantify it so as not to impinge freedom of speech (sort of like obscenity).


The easiest way is to draw the line at monetary gain. Want to claim you're a Medal of Honor winner to impress the rubes? Okay. Want to use that claim to get charity donations? Fraud.
 
2012-08-02 01:24:27 PM  

Biological Ali: What about claiming to be, say, an ex-doctor? Or just making a false claim of some specific accomplishment (e.g. having saved some lives somewhere) without making mentioning any particular occupation? There are many, many lies that a person could tell if all he wants is esteem and credibility.


I would put that in the same boat myself, and if you claim to be an ex-doctor I'm sure the AMA and state
licensing boards would go after you.

Biological Ali: Theaetetus: So you're not a staunch 1st Amendment absolutist, and you believe that some speech should be criminalized. And more interestingly, you believe that "simple lying" should be allowed, unless it involves a subject related to the government, at which point it should be criminal.

I think it has to do more with a fetishization of the military rather than government in general. I doubt he'd support laws making it illegal to lie about being a postal worker.


Actually, I would, if only because that would be consistent with lying about military service. And, say,
someone was trying to drum up sympathy by claiming they were exposed to anthrax or something
like that?

As I said in a previous post: I do recognize that this is a thorny issue and I fervently wish I was, like,
a real lawyer so I could better formulate my argument, and am fully willing to leave things at the
general agreement that people who lie about being tough guy ex-military badasses are pathetic and
worthy of only ridicule and scorn, and only get the law involved if said scumbags try to commit actual
crime or fraud using said claims.
 
2012-08-02 01:25:26 PM  
CSB mode ON

About a million years ago I worked at a clothing retailer in Virginia Beach. One day, a chubby dude walks in wearing a Team Six t-shirt. I was USNA '05, have trained with SEALs, and knew the chances of this dude being NSW were about zero. My associate ends up helping the guy, who proceeds to spend the next 20 or so minutes discussing his SEAL history, how he's getting sent to Coronado to be a trainer for BUD/S, etc. etc. Meanwhile, I end up helping another gentlemen. In talking with my customer, I come to learn he's a retired SEAL officer. Both my customer and the "Team Six" guy end up at the check-out counter at the same time. My guy sees the other guy's t-shirt and strikes up a conversation. Fatty claims to be a SEAL. Within about 45 seconds, he's falling all over his lies, unable to verify anything whatsoever. Also of note is that both gentlemen had children with them, fake-SEAL had a young (maybe 5 or 6) son, real-SEAL a young (10-11? I'm horrible at guessing ages) daughter. I'll never forget the next few lines from the real SEAL:

"So you're not really a SEAL, but you just told me you were. That's a really great way to get choked out in front of your kid."

I couldn't help but laugh. This idiot had the audacity to:

1. Pretend to be a SEAL in an area that houses one of the largest SEAL populations in the world (Little Creek, VA).
2. Pretend to be a SEAL whilst also being ludicrously overweight (hint: you'll never ever ever see a fat frogman...fewer segments of the military have as much emphasis on physical fitness).
3. Attempted to perpetuate his lie whilst knowing next to nothing about NSW. Hell, the rest of the staff at the store could see through is BS without the benefit of knowing anything about the Navy.

Not even two weeks later, I see the same jagoff at our local mall, wearing the same g*ddamn t-shirt. We were in the pet store (I liked the cute puppies, but I've always gotten our dogs from SPCA), and, as I was leaving, he was approached by two dudes who were SEALS, asking about his shirt. I hope the situation ended in the parking lot with some attitude adjustment.

The SEALS I met during my time in were interesting fellows. My favorite was a CPO from Long Island. I once made the mistake of asking him what he did for recreation. His response, literally verbatim (and this was back in 2002):

"I have two children, a boy of 7 and a girl who is 9. On my days off, I like to go to the Annapolis mall, and have them play together in an area where I can observe them without being seen. The hope is that a person or persons will attempt an abduction. At that point, I will remove myself from concealment and open the bad guys' femoral arteries with my Spyderco knife."

'Til this day, I have no idea if that dude was farking with me, or if that was really how he spent his free-time.

/CSB mode OFF
 
2012-08-02 01:26:38 PM  

Krikkitbot: This isn't something new, though. 2.7 million people served in Vietnam. 13.8 million people claimed they did.

\Spanish-American war vet
\\I was a Rough Rider


img2.shoptoit.ca

was this your jersey?
 
2012-08-02 01:26:52 PM  

Rufus Lee King: I was tending bar at work recently, and had to listen to a guy's sad, emotional stories of his tour in Vietnam. Difficulty: The guy was my age (54).

So he was in Vietnam at age 10?


No, his secret mission to rescue MIA/POWs in the early 80s was made into a Rambo movie.
 
2012-08-02 01:27:58 PM  
DjangoStonereaver:
I wish all the GOP-tards.....

Bob Hope said it best.......wait for it......
Link
 
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