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(Huffington Post)   Finally, it's socially acceptable to admit Citizen Kane is not, in fact, the best movie ever made   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 294
    More: Spiffy, Citizen Kane, Sight & Sound, Kim Novak, British Film Institute, A.O. Scott, Jean Renoir, art film, silent era  
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7752 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 02 Aug 2012 at 1:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-02 09:53:38 AM

EyeballKid: KatjaMouse: Nothing wrong with Hot Fuzz. Like at all. That was made by a group of tremendous movie nerds who one upped several excellently made action films when you talk about scope and framing and even some of the action as well.

I see where you're coming from, and everything you've said of Hot Fuzz is true, but I would argue that it's difficult to rank a film which is a tribute to a certain kind of action film higher than any of the films that Hot Fuzz is paying homage to, and I sure as hell don't think anybody's rushing to put Point Break in their all-time top 10.


I also imagine people have greater affection for Hot Fuzz because it was a clever script and the casting was absolutely wonderful. Timothy Datlon was delicious through the whole thing and even if you removed the spoof aspect from it it was a great genre piece overall. I think this is what got studios to really think that this Edgar Wright guy just might have a future in directing and not just be a one off with that little indie Zombie flick.
 
2012-08-02 09:56:53 AM
I don't care if it's supposed to be "the greatest" or whether pretentious filmophiles declare it the pinnacle of movie-making... I just LOVE Citizen Kane. I've watched it dozens of times and I. just. enjoy it. Best? Don't know. But it's a great.
 
2012-08-02 09:59:02 AM
I'm sure no one cares, but here are 10 of my favorite films

Seven Samurai (1954)
The Exterminating Angel (1962)
Dr. Strangelove (1964)
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
Eraserhead (1977)
Fanny and Alexander (1982)
Brazil (1985)
Goodfellas (1990)
Waiting For Guffman (1996)
There Will Be Blood (2007)

This list would probably be different if I made it a few weeks from now. 2001, Eraserhead, and Fanny and Alexander are the only ones solidly top ten material.
 
2012-08-02 10:06:06 AM

alowishus: Goodfellas (1990)


I loved Goodfellas UNTIL I went back and watched Mean Streets, then I realised Scorsese has been making the same movie over and over ever since. Except for Color Of Money and Gangs of New York.
 
2012-08-02 10:07:36 AM
...Terry Gilliam... ...Hot Fuzz...

ooh whole other topic. If we're talking about modern genre-defining movies, I recently have new favorites to my top ten list. The Guard and The Good the Bad and the Weird are the only movies I've re-watched on back to back days in the last 10 years. Brilliant stuff!

/as far as TV goes - as much as I'm a fan boy of older series - and really enjoyed several - IMHO none hold a candle to what's currently being done in Breaking Bad.
 
2012-08-02 10:10:18 AM
EyeballKid at least the greatest Western filmed IMHO


Wrong. You are SO wrong.


The Wild Bunch is very VERY much more than just the greatest Western.

The Wild Bunch changed everything. (Bonnie and Clyde too)
Scorcese for one.
Paul Shrader,John Milius...etc. All have cited this film as "masterpiece"

Every action,drama,Western,cop story.....changed because of The Wild Bunch.
 
2012-08-02 10:10:33 AM

dittybopper: Freakin Rican: i would think alien 3 & 4 would be the best movies ever

followed by AVP

Alien3 gets a lot of shiat that it doesn't deserve. It's a perfect capstone to the Ripley v. Xenomorph trilogy. It's actually quite a good film. People just don't like it because everyone of "worth" (Newt, Corporal Hicks, Dillon, and Ripley herself) dies. Hey, sometimes bad things happen to good people, or to people who don't deserve it. I think it rounds out that story arc quite nicely, and in keeping with the generally dark tone of the series.

Alien Resurrection, on the other hand, ain't that good. It's OK-ish, sort of, in a popcorn movie sort of way. AvP1 just sucked despite some decent ideas. AvP2 was better, but still seriously lacking.


dude i was only kidding.


Baryogenesis: loooongview1: Anybody that actually thinks they can rank the worthiness of one piece of art to another is full of shiat. But these sorts of things are fun.

Let's just progress to the end point: ranking all things.



#1 Arguing on the internet
#2 Boobs


#1 Boobs
#2 Arguing on Fark
 
2012-08-02 10:11:13 AM
HERETIC! BURN THE HERETIC! BURN! BURN! BURN!
 
2012-08-02 10:12:17 AM

Tired_of_the_BS: ooh whole other topic. If we're talking about modern genre-defining movies, I recently have new favorites to my top ten list. The Guard and The Good the Bad and the Weird are the only movies I've re-watched on back to back days in the last 10 years. Brilliant stuff!


LOOOOOOVED The Guard! It's easy to see the writer/director is the writer/director of In Bruges (that must have been some house growing up).Haven't see The Good The Bad and The Weird but must check it out.

'How many murders have you had in the last 24 hours?"
"That's for us to know and you to find out."
 
2012-08-02 10:13:23 AM

Crewmannumber6: LOOOOOOVED The Guard! It's easy to see the writer/director is the brother of the writer/director of In Bruges (that must have been some house growing up).Haven't see The Good The Bad and The Weird but must check it out.


FTFM
shiat
 
2012-08-02 10:13:37 AM
My Top 10, no particular order:

Amadeus
Blade Runner
The Godfather (I & II)
Goodfellas
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Pulp Fiction
Miller's Crossing
Dr. Strangelove
The Sting
Fight Club

Honorable mentions to Children of Men, Raising Arizona, Alien, The Bicycle Thief, Rear Window, The Shining.
 
2012-08-02 10:16:07 AM

simplicimus: Really, "Vertigo" ? I will gladly accede that "Citizen Kane" is not all that and a bag of nuts. But "A face in the crowd" and "Meet John Doe" are far better films.


Kane had a story and a message.
Vertigo, not so much.

I would get if Kane lost to Avatar, which also had a message, but not Vertigo.

The special effects in Vertigo were silly.
 
2012-08-02 10:18:02 AM

Mr_Fabulous: My Top 10, no particular order:

Amadeus
Blade Runner
The Godfather (I & II)
Goodfellas
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Pulp Fiction
Miller's Crossing
Dr. Strangelove
The Sting
Fight Club

Honorable mentions to Children of Men, Raising Arizona, Alien, The Bicycle Thief, Rear Window, The Shining.


Fark! I forgot to mention 12 Monkeys!
 
2012-08-02 10:20:04 AM
Rear Window. But this is a damn fine film in its own right -


gothamist.com
 
2012-08-02 10:21:35 AM

thornhill: A very brief explanation of why Vertigo is Hitchock's best film and deserves to be called the greatest film: There are two films going on at the same time within Vertigo. There's the story line we get through the dialogue (the whole thing with Madeline being possessed by a ghost), and what the film is really about told purely through visuals (Scottie's impotence). It's a commentary one how film is a visual medium, and that if you focus on dialogue, you're failing to take advantage of the medium (so for viewers who only pay attention to Vertigo's dialogue rather than what they see on the screen -- right down to the choice of color in costumes and props -- they are faked out by the possession plot which is a red herring). The final act of the film is particularly brilliant. Hitchcock gives us the big reveal with 30 minutes still to go, but instead of creating less suspense, it creates more because we're anxious about what will happen if Judy gets caught, and perplexed about her actions -- her willingness to be remade into a dead woman and the fact that she recognizes what is happening.


Like I had said previously, while the movie is great from a craftsmanship level, it never quite gells for me as a "great" movie. It's too cold, too sterile, too distant, too "arthouse" I guess I could say. That film needed the help of a writer like John Michael Hayes to put some more feeling and humor into the script. The characters don't really seem to be very involving other than Scottie, and even then, it's still difficult to identify with him. It's hard to connect to the movie on anything other than an intellectual level. Vertigo really suffers from the lack of warmth that his 4 John M Hayes scripted movies (Rear Window, To Catch a Theif, The Trouble With Harry, The Man Who Knew Too Much) had.
 
2012-08-02 10:22:58 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: The special effects in Vertigo were silly.


By today's standards, but in 1958 they f*@cked people up.
 
2012-08-02 10:24:12 AM
It insists upon itself.
 
2012-08-02 10:26:20 AM

Mr_Fabulous: My Top 10, no particular order:

Amadeus
Blade Runner
The Godfather (I & II)
Goodfellas
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Pulp Fiction
Miller's Crossing
Dr. Strangelove
The Sting
Fight Club

Honorable mentions to Children of Men, Raising Arizona, Alien, The Bicycle Thief, Rear Window, The Shining.


In the immortal words of Dug the dog from Up! "I've just met you and I love you"!
 
2012-08-02 10:27:33 AM
It's not the best film ever made (I'd lean towards Rashomon or The Seven Samurai, possibly the Bicycle Thief), but certainly the most influential. Welles basically created the modern art of filmmaking with the film (largely because he had no idea how other people made films - he relied primarily on his radio and theater background to guide him)- major innovations in cinematography, effects, use of soundtrack to not only evoke a mood but also to smooth edits, the first film to use an L cut to transition between scenes, the first film to rely heavily on flashbacks and use a non-linear narrative, the use of an audience surrogate (the reporter) which was extremely rare at the time and so on.


Also the film holds up extremely well for its age since many of the techniques it uses are still used today so it comes of as a very modern film (and I still find the journey Kane takes from idealistic young reformer to wealthy, corrupt powerbroker - the very thing he spoke out so passionately against in his youth to be fascinating).

So, best film ever made? Of course not - the film is 7 decades old and filmmakers just as brilliant and inventive as he was have built on what he did. However, it is a film that anyone with any sort of interest in film should see repeatedly (preferably with Ebert's commentary) and if you can't recognize its importance then you really shouldn't be talking about movies to begin with.
 
2012-08-02 10:31:39 AM

Dr.Zom: simplicimus: Dr.Zom: It's Casablanca. Everybody knows it's Casablanca. No one ever says "Hey, let's watch Citizen Kane again tonight."

That list was a pretentious pile of crap. Sunrise: a Song for Two Humans? Blow me.

Casablanca is just insanely great. A bunch of contract actors and a B level script turned out to be so much more.

That's why I really do think it's the greatest film of all time - the process took so many people's contributions and almost accidentally created this wonderful work of art. In Thomas Lennon and Robert Ben Garant's book on screenwriting (highly recommended by the way) they claim that Rick's entire backstory was added to the screenplay by the SEVENTH team of writers, which doesn't surprise me in the least.


The ONLY vaguely negative thing I can say about Casablanca is that the Paris scenes can go a little slow. And that's not even that bad either. The movie is just amazing especially because, as you said, it's accidentally perfect.

But I remember just being in awe when I finished watching it for the first time.
 
2012-08-02 10:31:43 AM

Crewmannumber6: alowishus: Goodfellas (1990)

I loved Goodfellas UNTIL I went back and watched Mean Streets, then I realised Scorsese has been making the same movie over and over ever since. Except for Color Of Money and Gangs of New York.


And Last Temptation of Christ and After Hours and Kundun and The Age of Innocence and The Aviator and Taxi Driver and Hugo and Bringing out the Dead and Shutter Island.

But other than those, yeah. He makes the same movie over and over
 
2012-08-02 10:33:12 AM

Crewmannumber6: tenpoundsofcheese: The special effects in Vertigo were silly.

By today's standards, but in 1958 they f*@cked people up.



Snapper Carr said it better than I could.

By the standards of when the film was made, Kane was far more influential.
 
2012-08-02 10:34:15 AM

loooongview1: Anybody that actually thinks they can rank the worthiness of one piece of art to another is full of shiat.


You're wrong.

Art can be objectively measured. With film you can critically evaluate the editing, cinematography, shot composition, lighting, camera work, etc. There are very concrete reasons that people point to these films as being the best.

What remains completely subjective is if the film (or any work of art) has an emotional impact on people.
 
2012-08-02 10:34:50 AM

stoli n coke: Crewmannumber6: alowishus: Goodfellas (1990)

I loved Goodfellas UNTIL I went back and watched Mean Streets, then I realised Scorsese has been making the same movie over and over ever since. Except for Color Of Money and Gangs of New York.

And Last Temptation of Christ and After Hours and Kundun and The Age of Innocence and The Aviator and Taxi Driver and Hugo and Bringing out the Dead and Shutter Island.

But other than those, yeah. He makes the same movie over and over


Point taken
 
2012-08-02 10:34:56 AM

Marcus Aurelius: There can be only one.


Nice find. So thats what happened to Rowdy Roddy Piper.
 
2012-08-02 10:39:35 AM

KatjaMouse: RumsfeldsReplacement: Allansfirebird: stuff...
Clerks II (2006)
Hot Fuzz (2006)
stuff...

wat

Nothing wrong with Hot Fuzz. Like at all. That was made by a group of tremendous movie nerds who one upped several excellently made action films when you talk about scope and framing and even some of the action as well. As for Clerks II... ummm... well?


Clerks II was funny, but Hot Fuzz was excellent.

My number one pick will always be Blazing Saddles.
/It's twue.
 
2012-08-02 10:43:03 AM
Again, not a modern masterpiece, but My Favorite Year is a great farkin film.

The Field
The Wind That Shakes The Barley

and just for fun

The Commitments
 
2012-08-02 10:43:07 AM
i.ytimg.com

No, that's not it.
 
2012-08-02 10:44:51 AM

zez: underwhere: Why did the writer of that article go out of his way to post the spoiler about Rosebud?

That's what I was thinking. I know it's an old film but how many kids might want to check it out after hearing about it on the interwebs.

Granted, the first time I saw Citizen Kane, it was at an arthouse cinema after some rerelease for something. I liked it but didn't understand why everyone thought it was so great. Then I got the Laserdisc and listened to the commentary and finally realized that all the same old stuff I've seen a thousand times was all done in this movie for the very first time!

Time really has hurt that film, as well as the horrible old age makeup Wells used on himself.


Reminds me of when I heard someone hating on Seven Samurai with the argument that " all the camera shots looked like all these other movies," without realizing that, yeah, it does, cause Kurosawa did it first.
 
2012-08-02 10:44:52 AM

Allansfirebird: thornhill: A very brief explanation of why Vertigo is Hitchock's best film and deserves to be called the greatest film: There are two films going on at the same time within Vertigo. There's the story line we get through the dialogue (the whole thing with Madeline being possessed by a ghost), and what the film is really about told purely through visuals (Scottie's impotence). It's a commentary one how film is a visual medium, and that if you focus on dialogue, you're failing to take advantage of the medium (so for viewers who only pay attention to Vertigo's dialogue rather than what they see on the screen -- right down to the choice of color in costumes and props -- they are faked out by the possession plot which is a red herring). The final act of the film is particularly brilliant. Hitchcock gives us the big reveal with 30 minutes still to go, but instead of creating less suspense, it creates more because we're anxious about what will happen if Judy gets caught, and perplexed about her actions -- her willingness to be remade into a dead woman and the fact that she recognizes what is happening.

Like I had said previously, while the movie is great from a craftsmanship level, it never quite gells for me as a "great" movie. It's too cold, too sterile, too distant, too "arthouse" I guess I could say. That film needed the help of a writer like John Michael Hayes to put some more feeling and humor into the script. The characters don't really seem to be very involving other than Scottie, and even then, it's still difficult to identify with him. It's hard to connect to the movie on anything other than an intellectual level. Vertigo really suffers from the lack of warmth that his 4 John M Hayes scripted movies (Rear Window, To Catch a Theif, The Trouble With Harry, The Man Who Knew Too Much) had.


This list doesn't attempt to rank movies that have the most emotional impact because that's totally subjective -- it's different for everyone. Instead it purposely focuses on craftsmanship because that is something subjective, that we can all agree upon.

A few things:

The film is supposed to lack warmth because it's pretty dark -- Scottie is a necrophiliac!

I would say that it does have humor. The first two-thirds of the film are over the top in melodrama -- it purposely plays out like a bad 1950s romantic tragedy -- and then we found out that it was all an old fashion "kill your wife for the money plot." It'shiatchcock's twist on a tiresome genre.

While I think it's hard to connect with Scottie's character, the theme about him wanting to remake a woman into an visually aesthetic ideal of what's considered attractive remains pretty prevalent in our culture. The film confronts us with uncomfortable aspects of masculinity and desire in our culture.
 
2012-08-02 10:45:39 AM
1. 12 Angry Men
2. The Godfather
3. The Godfather 2
4. Dog Day Afternoon
5. Dr. Strangelove
 
2012-08-02 10:47:36 AM
Also, since everyone likes to harp on the sled, I feel it's only proper to point out that Rosebud is nothing more than a framing device for the plot (the aforementioned journey from young idealist to corrupt cynic). Personally I prefer the more cynical explanation (it was Hearst's pet name for his mistress's clitoris)
 
2012-08-02 10:49:27 AM
I don't see much love here for silence of the lambs. Am I a heathen for thinking that movie was great, and thinking it should be considered for at least some folks' top 10/20/50 lists?
 
2012-08-02 10:49:45 AM

Snapper Carr: It's not the best film ever made (I'd lean towards Rashomon or The Seven Samurai, possibly the Bicycle Thief), but certainly the most influential. Welles basically created the modern art of filmmaking with the film (largely because he had no idea how other people made films - he relied primarily on his radio and theater background to guide him)- major innovations in cinematography, effects, use of soundtrack to not only evoke a mood but also to smooth edits, the first film to use an L cut to transition between scenes, the first film to rely heavily on flashbacks and use a non-linear narrative, the use of an audience surrogate (the reporter) which was extremely rare at the time and so on.


Also the film holds up extremely well for its age since many of the techniques it uses are still used today so it comes of as a very modern film (and I still find the journey Kane takes from idealistic young reformer to wealthy, corrupt powerbroker - the very thing he spoke out so passionately against in his youth to be fascinating).

So, best film ever made? Of course not - the film is 7 decades old and filmmakers just as brilliant and inventive as he was have built on what he did. However, it is a film that anyone with any sort of interest in film should see repeatedly (preferably with Ebert's commentary) and if you can't recognize its importance then you really shouldn't be talking about movies to begin with.


A voice of reason in a thread full of nonsense.
 
2012-08-02 10:52:11 AM

Thresher: Mr_Fabulous: My Top 10, no particular order:

Amadeus
Blade Runner
The Godfather (I & II)
Goodfellas
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Pulp Fiction
Miller's Crossing
Dr. Strangelove
The Sting
Fight Club

Honorable mentions to Children of Men, Raising Arizona, Alien, The Bicycle Thief, Rear Window, The Shining.

In the immortal words of Dug the dog from Up! "I've just met you and I love you"!



Well, thanks man. I appreciate it. And please... help keep Austin weird.
 
2012-08-02 10:52:37 AM

mr smart the great: blade runner, dune....... my list goes on i hold no favorites i hold only well made movies that require people to think. kindda sad the stupider ones get all the attention. farken glee, lost........


Why are you comparing tv shows to movies?
 
2012-08-02 10:53:06 AM

ThePixies: 1. 12 Angry Men


On my list of films that my kids HAVE to see once, along with To Kill A mockingbird and Saving Private Ryan.
 
2012-08-02 10:54:02 AM

Pete_T_Mann:

Honestly, I liked this more than Citizen Kane. Iago was really, really great.

Random favorites b/c everybody is just dying to know...

Blade runner--directors cut
Brazil and Baron Munchasen
7th Seal and Wild Strawberries
Apocalypse Now Redux
Excalibur (Nicol Williamson FTW)
Hero (with the right subtitles)
The Thing--Carpenters version, of course
The Prestige
The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly (but all in the "man w/ no name" trilogy are great movies)
Millers Crossing
From Hell

Thats all I can think of for now...


Finally got the fiancee to watch Millers Crossing. Also appreciate Brazil and Baron Munchasen being on the list, shame Time Bandits fell apart in the end.
Would have to remove From Hell, and replace with Amadeus however.
 
2012-08-02 10:58:12 AM

ZiegZeon: zez: underwhere: Why did the writer of that article go out of his way to post the spoiler about Rosebud?

That's what I was thinking. I know it's an old film but how many kids might want to check it out after hearing about it on the interwebs.

Granted, the first time I saw Citizen Kane, it was at an arthouse cinema after some rerelease for something. I liked it but didn't understand why everyone thought it was so great. Then I got the Laserdisc and listened to the commentary and finally realized that all the same old stuff I've seen a thousand times was all done in this movie for the very first time!

Time really has hurt that film, as well as the horrible old age makeup Wells used on himself.

Reminds me of when I heard someone hating on Seven Samurai with the argument that " all the camera shots looked like all these other movies," without realizing that, yeah, it does, cause Kurosawa did it first.


Seven Samurai is as influential to the modern action film as Citizen Kane is to modern film techniques. Samurai is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else that was being done at the time, and its influence is still abundant today (including in Michael Bay films). It's a film that SHOULD be in a film critic's top ten.
 
2012-08-02 10:59:14 AM

Solid Muldoon: walrusonion: Why can't there be two classes of lists a Hayes Code List and a Post Hayes Code list? Y'know to give things made after the 50's a chance.

The Maltese Falcon would have been a much better movie if they could have said I want to fark you instead of I love you. No way they loved each other. They just wanted to be having serious banging boning all over the place.

But you couldn't say fark that back then, so they had to say love.


Seriously cannot agree there. Spade was cheerfully bonking his partner's wife and nothing was said about love. But Bridget was something else entirely to him, which is why his winning in yhe end wasn't such a win.
 
2012-08-02 11:01:47 AM

GentlemanJ: Seems clear to me that it's "The Godfather."


The Godfather and Godfather II are a seamless continuum of cinematic excellence.

The thing people miss the point about about a list of the greatest movies of all time appearing in a trade specialty publication like Sight and Sound is that the criteria really isn't the "most enjoyable film ever made"; the criteria generally is the film which had the greatest impact on film after it made it to the silver screen. By that criteria, there is so much to Citizen Kane which is groundbreaking in terms of story, cinematography, direction, sound, etc. that CK influenced an entire couple of generations of filmmakers to come. Plus it's not a bad little film.
 
2012-08-02 11:04:47 AM

loooongview1: Once Upon a Time in Mexico


uhhh heheh
 
2012-08-02 11:07:04 AM

Harry_Seldon: I am going with this movie...

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 425x298]


Princess Mononoke was better. But I realize people didn't know Miyazaki until he sold out.
 
2012-08-02 11:07:19 AM
It's about time Citizen Kane took a back seat to truly great films, like Highlander 3.
 
2012-08-02 11:09:15 AM
The Good The Bad and The Ugly is better than all 10 of those movies. Film snobs are the worst.
 
2012-08-02 11:09:35 AM
I just kinda rolled through this thread, and I'm seeing a lot of Hitchcock love for Vertigo and Rear Window. For me, though, it's gotta be North by Northwest or Rope.

And somebody upthread mentioned Katharine Hepburn in The African Queen, but her best role by far is as Eleanor in The Lion in Winter - another incredible film.
 
2012-08-02 11:10:49 AM
Movies since 1968 that should be in the top ten:

THE GODFATHER, FOR FARK'S SAKE
The Shawshank Redemption

Other contenders since 1968 for the top ten:
American Beauty
Pulp Fiction
2001

Should be number one:
The Godfather
or
Casablanca
 
2012-08-02 11:11:10 AM

phyrkrakr: And somebody upthread mentioned Katharine Hepburn in The African Queen, but her best role by far is as Eleanor in The Lion in Winter - another incredible film.


And it had Richard Harris in it, too
 
2012-08-02 11:12:01 AM

Mr_Fabulous: My Top 10, no particular order:

Amadeus
Blade Runner
The Godfather (I & II)
Goodfellas
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Pulp Fiction
Miller's Crossing
Dr. Strangelove
The Sting
Fight Club

Honorable mentions to Children of Men, Raising Arizona, Alien, The Bicycle Thief, Rear Window, The Shining.


You have excellent taste.

/ hasn't seen Crimes and Misdemeanors
// or The String
/// Barton Fink was better than Miller's Crossing
 
2012-08-02 11:12:52 AM
Oh, and another film since 1968 that needs to be in the top ten: No Country for Old Men
 
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