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(Huffington Post)   Finally, it's socially acceptable to admit Citizen Kane is not, in fact, the best movie ever made   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 294
    More: Spiffy, Citizen Kane, Sight & Sound, Kim Novak, British Film Institute, A.O. Scott, Jean Renoir, art film, silent era  
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7753 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 02 Aug 2012 at 1:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-02 06:01:40 AM  
Citizen Kane lost the number one spot. Well I guess it's time for a remake.
 
2012-08-02 06:10:05 AM  
I like Citizen Kane, but I think we need to start making two lists considering the vast amounts of movies. One for the influential or technical accomplishments of the movies, where Kane would still dominate, and another list for the actual quality of the movie.

While I appreciate what Kane gave us, it's hard to agree that there aren't better overall movies since it's been made. (I have a soft spot for the Kurosawa films)
 
2012-08-02 06:15:35 AM  
I saw Citizen Kane once, back when I was in high school, because I had to.

The only other film on their list that I've seen is 2001, and because I'd read the book first, many times, I found it somewhat disappointing.
 
2012-08-02 06:21:26 AM  
I think this is as much a vindication of Jimmy Stewart as one of the greatest actors in history as it is
recognizing Hitchcock as a director. A lesser actor would have probably wanted to show that Scottie
Ferguson still had a core of decency and strength and portray him as a hero. Stewart realized that
the whole point Hitch was trying to make was that no matter how good and strong a person is, as a
human they are prey to their own emotions, desires and demons and that in the end they will get
you, either by making you become evil or by clouding your mind to the point where you don't see
things clearly.

I also always found an eerie parallel between this movie and PSYCHO, inasmuchas the rooming
house (The McKitrick Hotel) where Scottie finds Madeline looks an awful lot like the Bates house, and
Ellen Corby (the manager of said hotel) \would have been a great choice to play a live version of
Mrs. Bates. I'm sure the parallel is purely accidental, but it is striking to me nevertheless.
 
2012-08-02 06:37:07 AM  
I tried to overcome the chronological bias of this poll by picking one film from each decade, 1910-2009. Reading this thread reminded me that people look for different things in movies--beautiful pictures, good stories, funny lines, mind-blowing sfx--and that, honestly, I myself like different things about different films. So I've come up with three lists--I've got a lot of time on my hands.

Beautiful
1915. Intolerance (Griffith)
1927 Sunrise (Murnau)
1939 The Rules of the Game (Renoir)
1945 Les Enfants du Paradis (Carne)
1958 Vertigo (Hitchcock)
1963 8 1/2 (Fellini)
1976 Nashville (Altman)
1988 The Moderns (Rudolph)-an idiosyncratic choice, I admit.
1990 Goodfellas (Scorcese)
2008 Synechdoche, New York (Kaufman)

Fun
1914 Les Vampires (Feuillade)
1924 Sherlock Jr (Keaton)
1938 Holiday (Cukor)
1942 The Palm Beach Story (Sturges)
1952 Singin' in the Rain (Kelly/Donen)
1964 Bande a Part (Godard)
1979 Manhattan (Allen)
1980 The Shining (Kubrick)
1998 The Big Lebowski (Coen)
2005 The Squid and the Whale (Baumbach)

Kickass
1919 The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (Wiene)
1928 Un chien andalou (Dali/Bunuel)
1932 The Old Dark House (Whale)
1941 Citizen Kane (Welles)
1957 Sweet Smell of Success (MacKendrick)
1968 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick)
1972 Aguirre, The Wrath of God (Herzog)
1982 Blade Runner (Scott)
1994 Ed Wood (Burton)
2008 My Winnipeg (Madden)

...and I still had to leave out a bunch of my favorites.
 
2012-08-02 06:52:03 AM  

tankjr: After all these years I feel vindicated in my love of Vertigo!

/Citizen Kane is the greatest film in history
//Rear Window is also an excellent film


I cam in here to essentially say the same thing.
 
2012-08-02 06:56:42 AM  
No mention of Megaforce?
 
2012-08-02 06:57:59 AM  

Cornelius Dribble: .


Not bad. Just switch Synechdoche, New York with The Fall.
 
2012-08-02 07:02:41 AM  
Anything with Barbara Dare in it.

GISs for her will be NSFW, just in case you don't know who she is/was.
 
2012-08-02 07:24:29 AM  
For me, Citizen Kane and Vertigo are more important for their craftsmanship as opposed to their status as "great films." I'm big on cinematography, particularly in widescreen ratios, so I dearly love Welles, Hitchcock, David Lean, Ford, & Kubrick.

Here's my top 20:

Casablanca (1941)
Rear Window (1954)
Seven Samurai (1954)
To Catch a Thief (1955)
The Searchers (1956)
Rio Bravo (1959)
Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
From Russia With Love (1963)
Cleopatra (1963)
Doctor Zhivago (1965)
The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly (1966)
Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
Young Frankenstein (1974)
Back to the Future (1985)
The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert (1994)
The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
Clerks II (2006)
The Departed (2006)
Hot Fuzz (2006)
Inglourious Basterds (2009)

So, my list stretches over multiple decades. I will admit that I have a bias for pre-1970 films, as my favorite era of film is the post-Studio System era (1950-1967).
 
2012-08-02 07:27:28 AM  
nomorepopcorn.files.wordpress.com

/that is all.
 
2012-08-02 07:29:03 AM  
I finally saw Vertigo a few months back and not only would I not place it number one, I wouldn't even say it'shiatchcock's best. North by Northwest and Psycho are far superior movies.
 
2012-08-02 08:05:44 AM  
i would think alien 3 & 4 would be the best movies ever

followed by AVP
 
2012-08-02 08:06:32 AM  

Palooka_Joe: If it weren't for the last scene, I'd consider this film for consideration.

[i.imgur.com image 645x347]

Though viscerally satisfying, it turns a great film into a good film.


totally agree.
 
2012-08-02 08:09:38 AM  
200movies1woman.com

All-time fave movie, at least the greatest Western filmed IMHO.



/"Give'em hell, Pike!"
 
2012-08-02 08:11:47 AM  
You know how I know Citizen Kane is the best movie ever made? I've never been able to make it all the way through it, so it MUST be good.

Seriously, whether or not it's the best movie ever is irrelevant. The fact that Wells was able to bring that vision to fruition, at that scale, at what, 25? It's pretty much the gold standard for ambition and accomplishment in the movie business.
 
2012-08-02 08:12:43 AM  
List fails without "Meatballs 4"
 
2012-08-02 08:13:27 AM  

Dr.Zom: It's Casablanca. Everybody knows it's Casablanca. No one ever says "Hey, let's watch Citizen Kane again tonight."

That list was a pretentious pile of crap. Sunrise: a Song for Two Humans? Blow me.


LOVE "Casablanca," and there are many other great suggestions. "Vertigo" is a pretty great film, but I wouldn't put it in my Top 10. Of course, I wouldn't have put "Citizen Kane" in there, either.

Hell, "Vertigo" isn't even Hitchcock's best movie. ("North By Northwest," for those wondering.)

If I'm in the mood for an older movie, I'll go for any of these:

Casablanca
The Maltese Falcon
North By Northwest
The Seven Samurai
Rashomon
Dr. Strangelove
Touch Of Evil (another great movie by Welles, and I think superior to "Citizen Kane" in many ways)
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly
The African Queen -- (want to see two great actors carry a movie on their shoulders? -- this is the movie to see)
Abbot & Costello Meet Frankenstein -- (don't judge me, but this was a perfect blending of two huge movie franchises)
It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World
 
2012-08-02 08:13:34 AM  

Vodka Zombie: No mention of Megaforce?


Galaxina bumps it off the list.

/Porno, porno, porno patrol....
 
kab
2012-08-02 08:17:29 AM  

shpritz: Cornelius Dribble: .

Not bad. Just switch Synechdoche, New York with The Fall.


Well, that certainly wins my "most depressing movie I've ever watched" award.

Good flick, but jesus.
 
2012-08-02 08:17:53 AM  

loooongview1: Anybody that actually thinks they can rank the worthiness of one piece of art to another is full of shiat. But these sorts of things are fun.


Let's just progress to the end point: ranking all things.

#1 Arguing on the internet
#2 Boobs
 
2012-08-02 08:20:05 AM  

Freakin Rican: i would think alien 3 & 4 would be the best movies ever

followed by AVP


Alien3 gets a lot of shiat that it doesn't deserve. It's a perfect capstone to the Ripley v. Xenomorph trilogy. It's actually quite a good film. People just don't like it because everyone of "worth" (Newt, Corporal Hicks, Dillon, and Ripley herself) dies. Hey, sometimes bad things happen to good people, or to people who don't deserve it. I think it rounds out that story arc quite nicely, and in keeping with the generally dark tone of the series.

Alien Resurrection, on the other hand, ain't that good. It's OK-ish, sort of, in a popcorn movie sort of way. AvP1 just sucked despite some decent ideas. AvP2 was better, but still seriously lacking.
 
2012-08-02 08:24:41 AM  

Dog Welder: The African Queen -- (want to see two great actors carry a movie on their shoulders? -- this is the movie to see)


Absolutely. The African Queen is one of my favorites, and it's actually my favorite Bogart movie.
 
2012-08-02 08:26:30 AM  

Palooka_Joe: If it weren't for the last scene, I'd consider this film for consideration.

[i.imgur.com image 645x347]



Though viscerally satisfying, it turns a great film into a good film.


I finally got around to watching it this weekend, and I totally agree.
 
2012-08-02 08:32:54 AM  
Any 'Best Ever' list that doesn't have Terry Gilliam represented is suspect. The Fisher King makes the mundane magical.
Imginarium of Dr Parnassus
Brazil
12 Monkeys
 
2012-08-02 08:33:00 AM  

mikemoto: I finally saw Vertigo a few months back and not only would I not place it number one, I wouldn't even say it'shiatchcock's best. North by Northwest and Psycho are far superior movies.


www.biography.com

"That is what you get for talking trash, my good man."
 
2012-08-02 08:43:22 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Eh, Citizen Kane suffers from two things... it's been #1 for years, and it's no longer the hipster critic darling the way it was when it was first made #1, back when the film was relegated to TV airings and was still considered to be a failure because it didn't do too well at the box office upon its initial release.


AApparently the gag to keep saying screw you to Hearst has finally lost its luster. As if by occult hand
 
2012-08-02 08:46:33 AM  

Palooka_Joe: If it weren't for the last scene, I'd consider this film for consideration.

i.imgur.com



Though viscerally satisfying, it turns a great film into a good film.


I tried watching this movie again a couple weeks ago. I love all of this guys movies, but this one, IMO is by far his worst. It's not a bad movie, but it's far from great. Punch Drunk Love was infinitely better.
 
2012-08-02 08:53:27 AM  
YOU ALL KNOW THAT MIKE MEYERS' "THE LOVE GURU" IS THE BEST MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF MOVIES. ADMIT IT! CONFESS!
 
2012-08-02 08:53:34 AM  
i.ytimg.com

It's his sled. It was a sled from when he was a kid. There. I just saved you two long, boobless hours.
 
2012-08-02 09:00:26 AM  

Dog Welder: Touch Of Evil (another great movie by Welles, and I think superior to "Citizen Kane" in many ways)


I remember being hooked with that opening crane shot. I don't think I really understood film tension until I saw that opening.

Allansfirebird: For me, Citizen Kane and Vertigo are more important for their craftsmanship as opposed to their status as "great films." I'm big on cinematography, particularly in widescreen ratios, so I dearly love Welles, Hitchcock, David Lean, Ford, & Kubrick.


I couldn't agree more. Also, going somewhat against the grain in this thread when it comes to Hitchcock Vertigo is that film that is absolutely essential in his canon of work. You don't realize just how effed up his idea of women is until you really watch that movie. You only get that idea here and there in his other films. Also, To Catch A Thief had thoroughly cemented itself in my brain just what ultimate femininity really is. I don't think I really 'got' the whole thing about Grace Kelly until I saw that movie and then I was like "Yup. That there is Princess Grace of Monaco alright."

/My father was in a test screening of Vertigo back before it was released. He says the ending was better before it was recut for the general release that we know now
 
2012-08-02 09:01:46 AM  
Uh. "Man with a Movie Camera" (Vertov, 1929) makes the top 10?

Pretentious article is pretentious.
 
2012-08-02 09:03:02 AM  

GentlemanJ: Seems clear to me that it's "The Godfather."


Two is better.
 
2012-08-02 09:03:12 AM  
I'll wait for AFI's new list before admitting anything.
 
2012-08-02 09:05:55 AM  
I've never thought much of "Vertigo," mostly because I find the characters' behavior so improbable, and the attempt to convey the title disorder is a bit cartoonish. "High Anxiety" didn't have to go far to parody it.

I don't think "Citizen Kane" is the greatest film of all time on its own merits (though it is certainly a great film), but it certainly has been very influential. I'd go with

The Crowd
Apocalypse Now
M
Nosferatu (the original)
Casablanca
The Empire Strikes Back
Miller's Crossing
Touch of Evil
The Third Man
Back to the Future
A Clockwork Orange

/yeah, that's eleven, so what?
 
2012-08-02 09:11:17 AM  
My personal top 10 films list in no particular order:

All That Jazz (1979)
Vertigo (1958)
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004)
Inglorious Basterds (2009)
The Incredibles (2004)
Rashomon (1950)
The Royal Tenenbaums (2001)
West Side Story (1962)
Amadeus (1984)
The Haunting (1963)
 
2012-08-02 09:15:18 AM  

Allansfirebird: For me, Citizen Kane and Vertigo are more important for their craftsmanship as opposed to their status as "great films." I'm big on cinematography, particularly in widescreen ratios, so I dearly love Welles, Hitchcock, David Lean, Ford, & Kubrick.

Here's my top 20:

Casablanca (1941)
Rear Window (1954)
Seven Samurai (1954)
To Catch a Thief (1955)
The Searchers (1956)
Rio Bravo (1959)
Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
From Russia With Love (1963)
Cleopatra (1963)
Doctor Zhivago (1965)
The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly (1966)
Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
Young Frankenstein (1974)
Back to the Future (1985)
The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert (1994)
The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
Clerks II (2006)
The Departed (2006)
Hot Fuzz (2006)
Inglourious Basterds (2009)

So, my list stretches over multiple decades. I will admit that I have a bias for pre-1970 films, as my favorite era of film is the post-Studio System era (1950-1967).


wat
 
2012-08-02 09:17:47 AM  
I like so many movies it's hard to pick out 10.

Robert1966: Miller's Crossing

I keep forgetting how much I love this one

Now that he's mainstream it's easy to dismiss Christopher Nolan, but he makes some pretty damned good movies.
 
2012-08-02 09:18:57 AM  

RumsfeldsReplacement: Allansfirebird: stuff...
Clerks II (2006)
Hot Fuzz (2006)
stuff...

wat


Nothing wrong with Hot Fuzz. Like at all. That was made by a group of tremendous movie nerds who one upped several excellently made action films when you talk about scope and framing and even some of the action as well. As for Clerks II... ummm... well?
 
2012-08-02 09:20:43 AM  

KatjaMouse: Dog Welder: Touch Of Evil (another great movie by Welles, and I think superior to "Citizen Kane" in many ways)

I remember being hooked with that opening crane shot. I don't think I really understood film tension until I saw that opening.


I know people point out "Kane" for Welles' mastery behind the camera. The stuff he did in that movie to develop mood and character was certainly worth the accolades. But you are correct about that opening crane shot. It's nothing short of amazing and I couldn't help but think, "Holy shiat...Welles' REALLY knew what he was doing with a camera." It's also a movie that was rather risque for the period it was made in. There's a good deal of content that just wasn't really allowed in movies at that point in time and it did get Welles into some hot water with the studio. Throw in a pretty decent performance by Heston and it's a winner.
 
2012-08-02 09:21:03 AM  

Crewmannumber6: I like so many movies it's hard to pick out 10.

Robert1966: Miller's Crossing
I keep forgetting how much I love this one

Now that he's mainstream it's easy to dismiss Christopher Nolan, but he makes some pretty damned good movies.


I forgot how much I enjoyed Fargo until I caught it the other night. Then I discovered Future Mr. Mouse had never seen it and I was like "OMG SIT RIGHT NOW!!1!11" If I extended my list to 15 I'd include O' Brother! Where Art Thou? and also Memento (going back to the Nolan comment of course).
 
2012-08-02 09:24:33 AM  
It'll never make anybody's top 10 lists, but this
i132.photobucket.com
is modestly brilliant as a modern film noir
 
2012-08-02 09:25:50 AM  

Crewmannumber6: It'll never make anybody's top 10 lists, but this
[i132.photobucket.com image 200x296]
is modestly brilliant as a modern film noir


I can't decide if this is one of the more underrated or overrated movies of the last decade. I loved it, and I remember everyone gushing about it at the time but it almost is never brought up anymore.
 
2012-08-02 09:33:16 AM  

KatjaMouse: Crewmannumber6: It'll never make anybody's top 10 lists, but this
[i132.photobucket.com image 200x296]
is modestly brilliant as a modern film noir

I can't decide if this is one of the more underrated or overrated movies of the last decade. I loved it, and I remember everyone gushing about it at the time but it almost is never brought up anymore.


I loved how dialogue straight out of THe Maltese Falcon and others fit seamlessly into the story.
 
2012-08-02 09:42:55 AM  

KatjaMouse: RumsfeldsReplacement: Allansfirebird: stuff...
Clerks II (2006)
Hot Fuzz (2006)
stuff...

wat

Nothing wrong with Hot Fuzz. Like at all. That was made by a group of tremendous movie nerds who one upped several excellently made action films when you talk about scope and framing and even some of the action as well. As for Clerks II... ummm... well?


Clerks II is on there more for nostalgia than anything else. 2006 was the last year I was a regular theater goer & I saw it on the first day. Plus, I think it has one of Kevin Smith's best written scripts. I almost took Clerks II off the list in favor for Dogma, but my attachment to the former kept it on there. I enjoy a few dick and fart jokes occasionally, it keeps me from being totally smug with film. I know, I'm weird.
 
2012-08-02 09:44:01 AM  
A very brief explanation of why Vertigo is Hitchock's best film and deserves to be called the greatest film: There are two films going on at the same time within Vertigo. There's the story line we get through the dialogue (the whole thing with Madeline being possessed by a ghost), and what the film is really about told purely through visuals (Scottie's impotence). It's a commentary one how film is a visual medium, and that if you focus on dialogue, you're failing to take advantage of the medium (so for viewers who only pay attention to Vertigo's dialogue rather than what they see on the screen -- right down to the choice of color in costumes and props -- they are faked out by the possession plot which is a red herring). The final act of the film is particularly brilliant. Hitchcock gives us the big reveal with 30 minutes still to go, but instead of creating less suspense, it creates more because we're anxious about what will happen if Judy gets caught, and perplexed about her actions -- her willingness to be remade into a dead woman and the fact that she recognizes what is happening.
 
2012-08-02 09:45:23 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-02 09:47:59 AM  

mr smart the great: blade runner, dune....... my list goes on i hold no favorites i hold only well made movies that require people to think. kindda sad the stupider ones get all the attention. farken glee, lost........


I really want to resist dignifying this with a response, but as a TV guy more than a movie guy, I can't help myself:

You do realize that both Glee and Lost are TV shows, right? And they're totally incomparable? And Lost, although I didn't like its last season, has been off the air for more than two years and was usually fairly thought-provocative?

And Dune? The movie? Farking seriously?
 
2012-08-02 09:48:46 AM  

EyeballKid: [200movies1woman.com image 600x400]

All-time fave movie, at least the greatest Western filmed IMHO.



/"Give'em hell, Pike!"


"If they move.....kill 'em!"
 
2012-08-02 09:49:41 AM  

KatjaMouse: Nothing wrong with Hot Fuzz. Like at all. That was made by a group of tremendous movie nerds who one upped several excellently made action films when you talk about scope and framing and even some of the action as well.


I see where you're coming from, and everything you've said of Hot Fuzz is true, but I would argue that it's difficult to rank a film which is a tribute to a certain kind of action film higher than any of the films that Hot Fuzz is paying homage to, and I sure as hell don't think anybody's rushing to put Point Break in their all-time top 10.
 
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