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(KOIN Local 6 Portland)   Hero: Off-duty lifeguard saves drowning boy at beach. Cool: He rides in the ambulance with the boy. WTF: Ambulance company bills him $2,600 for the ride   (koinlocal6.com) divider line 249
    More: Asinine, W.T.F.?, Oregon, Rockaway Beach  
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14477 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2012 at 10:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-01 08:45:39 PM
Real story which the wire service condensed: http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Teen-Rescue-Bill/1hLdhlt14 k GX5C4GvnvKww.cspx

He thought, they're going to the hospital anyway and I have a headache so there's no harm in my riding along. He didn't understand the business of medicine where a tiny fraction of the fee is marginal cost of providing service and the majority is arbitrary assignment of overhead and uncollectable bills.
 
2012-08-01 08:57:56 PM
Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-01 09:05:15 PM
CommieTaoist

He's from the Vancouver in Washington. His excuse is he's 17.
 
2012-08-01 09:10:04 PM

ZAZ: Real story which the wire service condensed: http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Teen-Rescue-Bill/1hLdhlt14 k GX5C4GvnvKww.cspx

He thought, they're going to the hospital anyway and I have a headache so there's no harm in my riding along. He didn't understand the business of medicine where a tiny fraction of the fee is marginal cost of providing service and the majority is arbitrary assignment of overhead and uncollectable bills.


Thanks. That's a much better article.
 
2012-08-01 09:16:17 PM

CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.


5 American, 6 Canadian

Yeah, the bill is $2600, but depending on the agency they'll take whatever insurance pays and he won't get a hard bill.
 
2012-08-01 09:21:06 PM

ZAZ: CommieTaoist

He's from the Vancouver in Washington. His excuse is he's 17.


Hey, I'm an American, you can't expect me to be good at geography or reading comprehension or anything like that. :)
 
2012-08-01 09:21:33 PM

cretinbob: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

5 American, 6 Canadian

Yeah, the bill is $2600, but depending on the agency they'll take whatever insurance pays and he won't get a hard bill.


He's American. The article Zaz linked up thread says "Vancouver, Washington".
 
2012-08-01 09:29:13 PM
I know he's American.
If he were Canadian, there would be no bill at all.
 
2012-08-01 09:35:39 PM

CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.


Washington State is Canada now?
 
2012-08-01 09:38:00 PM
And WTF? why is the lifeguard on the hook for the bill?
America your heath care system makes no sense.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-01 09:40:22 PM
Washington State is Canada now?

45-40 or fight!
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-01 09:42:09 PM
why is the lifeguard on the hook for the bill?

He asked for an ambulance ride. He got an ambulance ride. Ambulance rides are expensive. He wasn't on duty, or even on his home beach, so he can't get his employer to pay the bill.
 
2012-08-01 09:44:38 PM
ZAZ your heath care system makes no sense.
 
2012-08-01 09:46:48 PM
So...I'm hoping one of our resident anti-healthcare folks comes in here soon. I want them to tell me whether the lifeguard should be forced to pay the bill, or if the kid should have died waiting for someone to come up with a Visa card to swipe before they put him on the gurney. Or maybe the family should be forced into poverty to pay the bill. Just wondering.
 
2012-08-01 09:55:07 PM

sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?


sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?


Actually the whole ambulance/hospital thing happened in Oregon. The teen rescused the drowning boy at Rockaway Beach in Tillamook County, Oregon.
 
2012-08-01 10:07:01 PM

Bathia_Mapes: sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?

sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?

Actually the whole ambulance/hospital thing happened in Oregon. The teen rescused the drowning boy at Rockaway Beach in Tillamook County, Oregon.


it was the Vancouver part throwing everyone off... until you.
 
2012-08-01 10:18:37 PM

sno man: Bathia_Mapes: sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?

sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?

Actually the whole ambulance/hospital thing happened in Oregon. The teen rescused the drowning boy at Rockaway Beach in Tillamook County, Oregon.

it was the Vancouver part throwing everyone off... until you.


Hey, it's not my fault that not everyone knows there's a Vancouver, Washington and a Vancouver, B.C. :-D
 
2012-08-01 10:19:44 PM
Good job, Obama.
 
2012-08-01 10:24:37 PM
Just goes to show there's no such thing as a free ride.

/ass, gas, or grass?
 
2012-08-01 10:24:43 PM

sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?


No but Canadian healthcare will pay wherever you are.
 
2012-08-01 10:25:25 PM

Bathia_Mapes: sno man: Bathia_Mapes: sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?

sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?

Actually the whole ambulance/hospital thing happened in Oregon. The teen rescused the drowning boy at Rockaway Beach in Tillamook County, Oregon.

it was the Vancouver part throwing everyone off... until you.

Hey, it's not my fault that not everyone knows there's a Vancouver, Washington and a Vancouver, B.C. :-D


Extra mess-up points for the kid going to Hudson Bay (high school) but I bet more Canadians would know there are two Vancouvers.
 
2012-08-01 10:26:35 PM

ZAZ: why is the lifeguard on the hook for the bill?

He asked for an ambulance ride. He got an ambulance ride. Ambulance rides are expensive.


In his defense, the busride was too slow.
 
2012-08-01 10:27:33 PM
This is a non-story.

The lifeguard saved the kid.

The lifeguard had a headache, the kid had just been pulled from the water. He asked for a ride to the hospital in the ambulance that was called to take the kid.
The lifeguard was seen in the ER, treated and released. He was then billed for the ambulance ride and the ER visit.

I'm not exactly sure what the issue is? It's not stated in the article, but I assume the lifeguard is covered by his parents health insurance... so he's probably on the hook for a fraction of the bill.
 
2012-08-01 10:29:17 PM
Good Samaritan life guard drowns in debt. And pictures of puppies. All at news at 11.
 
2012-08-01 10:29:17 PM
Naive kid is farked over by by farked up medical payment system.

I blame the ambulance drivers who failed to disclose to the obviously naive kid about the charges.

"Ya got a headache? We'll give you a pain in the ass to go with it."

/and blame Obama
 
2012-08-01 10:29:39 PM
Highway61Revisited: This is a non-story.

The lifeguard saved the kid.

The lifeguard had a headache, the kid had just been pulled from the water. He asked for a ride to the hospital in the ambulance that was called to take the kid.
The lifeguard was seen in the ER, treated and released. He was then billed for the ambulance ride and the ER visit.

I'm not exactly sure what the issue is? It's not stated in the article, but I assume the lifeguard is covered by his parents health insurance... so he's probably on the hook for a fraction of the bill.


I was going to be outraged and make a comment about that but yeah, this.

This is a non-story here. The Lifeguard rode in as a patient, and was charged as one.
 
2012-08-01 10:30:17 PM
Let me know what fastfood to eat or not eat in support of this guy.
 
2012-08-01 10:30:27 PM

sno man: Actually the whole ambulance/hospital thing happened in Oregon. The teen rescused the drowning boy at Rockaway Beach in Tillamook County, Oregon.

it was the Vancouver part throwing everyone off... until you.



The "Hudson's Bay" part didn't help either
 
2012-08-01 10:31:03 PM
wambu: I blame the ambulance drivers who failed to disclose to the obviously naive kid about the charges.

You do realize, thanks to corporate policies, EMTALA and State EMS laws, you cannot mention how much an ambulance ride will cost as a method to discourage people from using your services?

It's a huge no-no, and can actually cause you to have a winning lawsuit brought against you if they refuse because of that and something happens.
 
2012-08-01 10:32:50 PM

dahmers love zombie: So...I'm hoping one of our resident anti-healthcare folks comes in here soon. I want them to tell me whether the lifeguard should be forced to pay the bill, or if the kid should have died waiting for someone to come up with a Visa card to swipe before they put him on the gurney. Or maybe the family should be forced into poverty to pay the bill. Just wondering.


The second he told the crew "I've gotta headache, can I come too" he ceased being a life guard and became a patient. Do you do your job for free for everyone who wants your service but can't pay? Do the places you shop at, such as the gas station, grocery store, etc, accept "good will" for payment?

Oh, wait, this is health care. The product that everyone wants it for free because... well, fark you, that's why. Let me put it like this, when I become a physician (currently a medical student), I'll stop charging when the medical supply companies and drug companies stop billing me, the medical office building stops billing me, the other support services stops billing me, I get free food, and other necessities of life and general luxuries. Until I can walk into your place of work and demand your product and/or services for free, STFU and pay your bill.
 
2012-08-01 10:34:18 PM

BronyMedic: wambu: I blame the ambulance drivers who failed to disclose to the obviously naive kid about the charges.

You do realize, thanks to corporate policies, EMTALA and State EMS laws, you cannot mention how much an ambulance ride will cost as a method to discourage people from using your services?

It's a huge no-no, and can actually cause you to have a winning lawsuit brought against you if they refuse because of that and something happens.


Can you tell the patient how much it would cost if asked directly?
 
2012-08-01 10:36:07 PM

BronyMedic: wambu: I blame the ambulance drivers who failed to disclose to the obviously naive kid about the charges.

You do realize, thanks to corporate policies, EMTALA and State EMS laws, you cannot mention how much an ambulance ride will cost as a method to discourage people from using your services?

It's a huge no-no, and can actually cause you to have a winning lawsuit brought against you if they refuse because of that and something happens.


What if the patient asks the cost? Are they told? If so, and they refuse service, what then?
 
2012-08-01 10:37:24 PM
He didn't ride along because he wanted to accompany the boy he saved, he rode along because his head hurt a little. Newsflash, don't take an ambulance to the ER when your head hurts a little.

I am glad he was a hero in this case, and saved the boy's life, it's just too bad he followed the common refrain of turning into an entitled moron 30 seconds later.
 
2012-08-01 10:37:43 PM

ZAZ: Washington State is Canada now?

45-40 or fight!


That's fifty-four forty or fight!

In 1818, the United States and the United Kingdom (controlling British Canada) established a joint claim over the Oregon Territory - the region west of the Rocky ... and so forth.
 
2012-08-01 10:37:50 PM
dahmers love zombie: So...I'm hoping one of our resident anti-healthcare folks comes in here soon. I want them to tell me whether the lifeguard should be forced to pay the bill, or if the kid should have died waiting for someone to come up with a Visa card to swipe before they put him on the gurney. Or maybe the family should be forced into poverty to pay the bill. Just wondering.

Uh, just stop. Just stop right there. You don't have any idea what you're talking about.

EMS is going to treat someone regardless of if they can pay or not. In fact, payment demographic and insurance information is often something obtained during transport if the patient is completely stable, or after arrival and handoff at an ER if they're not.

The issue is that the moment the lifeguard voiced a complaint to the EMT or Paramedic, he stopped becoming a good Samaritan or bystander, and became - as required by law - a patient. Therefore, he was billed like one AFTER the transport.

I'm not sure what you're being so completely outraged at here. The crew did everything they were supposed to do. You'll get an ambulance ride even if you never pay your bills. But you will get charged for them.

I'm confused, though, why they charged him something that is more along the lines of a Specialty Care Transport charge versus an ALS 1 Emergency Charge it should have been. ALS 1 Emergency is usually flat billed around 900 to 1000 dollars. There's no way, at the standard rate of 9 dollars/mile that they usually charge during transport, that they went 100+ miles to a local hospital.
 
2012-08-01 10:38:18 PM

cretinbob: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

5 American, 6 Canadian

Yeah, the bill is $2600, but depending on the agency they'll take whatever insurance pays and he won't get a hard bill.


Tonight on the news they reported he has no health insurance.
 
2012-08-01 10:39:29 PM

Nemosomen: He didn't ride along because he wanted to accompany the boy he saved, he rode along because his head hurt a little. Newsflash, don't take an ambulance to the ER when your head hurts a little.

I am glad he was a hero in this case, and saved the boy's life, it's just too bad he followed the common refrain of turning into an entitled moron 30 seconds later.


Yeah, heroes aren't entitled to squat!
 
2012-08-01 10:40:32 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Hey, it's not my fault that not everyone knows there's a Vancouver, Washington and a Vancouver, B.C. :-D


Friend of mine is moving there next month. Hell if I know which one.

/I think the Frenchie one
 
2012-08-01 10:42:05 PM
Highway61Revisited: Can you tell the patient how much it would cost if asked directly?

sendtodave: What if the patient asks the cost? Are they told? If so, and they refuse service, what then?

Yes, and no. The best answer I can say is that you have to tell then "very carefully", and in such a manner as you appear neutral. The only situation where you can tell them that they will be completely self-responsible for a bill is in a Medicare, Non-911, Non-Emergency transport situation where they don't meet medical need for an ambulance. You can tell them a general range, for example, an ALS 1 Emergency charge, which is the standard 911 rate, is usually billed at 600 - 700 dollars, but you also include the fact that you're better safe than sorry, and their treatment is not dependent on their ability to pay or not.

If you really need an ambulance, pay is not, and should not be an issue. Even something as mundane as pain control is a great reason to use them.

If they refuse because they directly asked you the cost, and you told them in such a manner, you document a novel's worth of information about what the conversation was, what you told them verbatim, and the fact you told them their ability to pay does not matter.
 
2012-08-01 10:42:41 PM
nice system down there
 
2012-08-01 10:43:33 PM

JPINFV: dahmers love zombie: So...I'm hoping one of our resident anti-healthcare folks comes in here soon. I want them to tell me whether the lifeguard should be forced to pay the bill, or if the kid should have died waiting for someone to come up with a Visa card to swipe before they put him on the gurney. Or maybe the family should be forced into poverty to pay the bill. Just wondering.

The second he told the crew "I've gotta headache, can I come too" he ceased being a life guard and became a patient. Do you do your job for free for everyone who wants your service but can't pay? Do the places you shop at, such as the gas station, grocery store, etc, accept "good will" for payment?

Oh, wait, this is health care. The product that everyone wants it for free because... well, fark you, that's why. Let me put it like this, when I become a physician (currently a medical student), I'll stop charging when the medical supply companies and drug companies stop billing me, the medical office building stops billing me, the other support services stops billing me, I get free food, and other necessities of life and general luxuries. Until I can walk into your place of work and demand your product and/or services for free, STFU and pay your bill.


Know how I know how you don't know what you're talking about.
 
2012-08-01 10:43:36 PM
Also, for those who are thinking "Well, his insurance will cover it," no insurance will cover, or should cover, ambulance rides for headaches (With exceptions for the extreme, of course.)
 
2012-08-01 10:43:58 PM

JPINFV: dahmers love zombie: So...I'm hoping one of our resident anti-healthcare folks comes in here soon. I want them to tell me whether the lifeguard should be forced to pay the bill, or if the kid should have died waiting for someone to come up with a Visa card to swipe before they put him on the gurney. Or maybe the family should be forced into poverty to pay the bill. Just wondering.

The second he told the crew "I've gotta headache, can I come too" he ceased being a life guard and became a patient. Do you do your job for free for everyone who wants your service but can't pay? Do the places you shop at, such as the gas station, grocery store, etc, accept "good will" for payment?

Oh, wait, this is health care. The product that everyone wants it for free because... well, fark you, that's why. Let me put it like this, when I become a physician (currently a medical student), I'll stop charging when the medical supply companies and drug companies stop billing me, the medical office building stops billing me, the other support services stops billing me, I get free food, and other necessities of life and general luxuries. Until I can walk into your place of work and demand your product and/or services for free, STFU and pay your bill.


And yet lawyers are expected to work pro bono.

I see they don't screen med students for the ability to have a discussion without resorting to ridiculous strawman arguments. No one is saying health care professionals should work for free. Proponents of universal health care think it should be considered a public good and the costs should be spread among the population - like the costs of basic education. If this had happened in Vancouver, Canada rather than Vancouver Washington, the doctors, ambulance, etc would have been paid by the government-run health insurance program, and the bill to the lifeguard would have been either $0 or a nominal fee (not sure what they charge for ambulance rides - in Ontario it's $40.)
 
2012-08-01 10:44:08 PM
He can get a pap smear now, at least.
 
2012-08-01 10:45:03 PM

edmo: sno man: CommieTaoist: Ha, he was Canadian, welcome to America and our great healthcare system.

Washington State is Canada now?

No but Canadian healthcare will pay wherever you are.


The ambulance part of it would have been charged for in Canada too. In Alberta at least.
 
2012-08-01 10:45:23 PM
Thanks, libs.
 
2012-08-01 10:46:30 PM

BronyMedic: This is a non-story here. The Lifeguard rode in as a patient, and was charged as one.


While this is true, the average teenager has no idea what an ambulance ride to the nearest hospital, plus any subsequent exams, tests, etc. is going to cost.
 
2012-08-01 10:46:31 PM

sendtodave: Nemosomen: He didn't ride along because he wanted to accompany the boy he saved, he rode along because his head hurt a little. Newsflash, don't take an ambulance to the ER when your head hurts a little.

I am glad he was a hero in this case, and saved the boy's life, it's just too bad he followed the common refrain of turning into an entitled moron 30 seconds later.

Yeah, heroes aren't entitled to squat!


That was exactly my point. You can't just subtract the stupid shiat you do from the good shiat you do.
 
2012-08-01 10:47:26 PM
FTA: The 15-mile ride in the ambulance to Tillamook: $1,907

WTF, a private jet costs $2,500 per hour.
 
2012-08-01 10:47:45 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: sno man: Actually the whole ambulance/hospital thing happened in Oregon. The teen rescused the drowning boy at Rockaway Beach in Tillamook County, Oregon.

it was the Vancouver part throwing everyone off... until you.


The "Hudson's Bay" part didn't help either


Without some basic geography, I can see how that could throw someone off.
 
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