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(Yahoo)   Chinese officials very upset that people are accusing their 15-year old female swimmer, who swam laps in the 400m freestyle faster than Michael Phelps or Ryan Lochte did in the same event, of using performance-enhancing drugs   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 222
    More: Obvious, Ryan Lochte, Chinese, world championship, Olympic Village, swimmer, Olympic Park, breaststrokes, individual medley  
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4002 clicks; posted to Sports » on 01 Aug 2012 at 3:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-01 12:05:17 PM
Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.
 
2012-08-01 12:08:20 PM

cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.


Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR, AND broke the world record by more than 1 second, the first woman to break a world record set with those "special" swinsuits that were used in Beijing let's just say the more likely outcome is the chinese have developed a new undetectable form of doping.
 
2012-08-01 12:14:15 PM

cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.


Yes, it might just be possible that, you know, she's a faster swimmer.
 
2012-08-01 12:18:08 PM
and also

blogs.riverfronttimes.com

ftfa: "If there are suspicions, then please lay them out using facts and data. Don't use your own suspicions to knock down others. "-Nice
 
2012-08-01 12:29:45 PM
Is she as hairy as an East German female athlete? No. Then she's as innocent as old one ball Armstrong.
 
2012-08-01 12:38:55 PM

I_C_Weener: Is she as hairy as an East German female athlete? No. Then she's as innocent as old one ball Armstrong.


No but she does look like a distant relative of Arnold Schwarzenegger and that "lantern jaw" is a tell when it comes to steriod use
 
2012-08-01 12:49:26 PM
Guilty until proven innocent IS the whiny-American way.
 
2012-08-01 12:57:30 PM
Personally I think she is clean. China is working very hard on its image as one of the greatest countries in the world. I don't think their leadership would be willing to risk doping their athletes and getting caught at it.
Just one or two cases would ruin it for every Chinese athlete for years to come.
 
2012-08-01 12:59:14 PM

Magorn: cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.

Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR, AND broke the world record by more than 1 second, the first woman to break a world record set with those "special" swinsuits that were used in Beijing let's just say the more likely outcome is the chinese have developed a new undetectable form of doping.


BATH SALTS!!!

Or, as the Chinese call it, "sour grapes."
 
2012-08-01 01:02:19 PM

Slives: Personally I think she is clean. China is working very hard on its image as one of the greatest countries in the world. I don't think their leadership would be willing to risk doping their athletes and getting caught at it.
Just one or two cases would ruin it for every Chinese athlete for years to come.


They would definitely risk doping their athletes. They are smug enough to think they can get away with it.
 
2012-08-01 01:04:19 PM
I don't care about her or this story (but I'll agree that shaving 5 second off in a year is insane), I'm just glad that Phelps beat that little twit Clary in Butterfly. I wish he got the gold, but at least he showed Clary that talking shiat does nothing but make the other guy work harder.
 
2012-08-01 01:15:59 PM
Yeah, prove that she cheated or STFU. Records are made to be broken.
 
2012-08-01 01:26:08 PM
When I was a kid in the 70s, I remember Bob Beamon's world record was an awesome thing. I don't remember any controversy, it was just cool that a human did that.
Strange things happen. It doesn't mean anyone cheated. There are people who are paid to suspect cheaters and root them out. I'm not one of them, so I'm just going to think it was an awesome swim until someone tells me otherwise, who has more evidence than "I thought about this really hard, and I decided she cheated."
 
2012-08-01 01:27:35 PM
"Dihydrotestosterone, anabolic steroids, erythropoietin and human growth hormones. All banned substances. All used by various members of the Chinese national swim team in the last 15 years.

Over 40 Chinese swimmers since 1990 have failed drug tests. That's triple the amount of any other swimming country during the same period of time."

So yes, give her a fair trial. But people acting like the only reason to be suspicious of this is jealousy or motivated by any anti-china sentiment need to consider that in the past 20 years, china are the biggest cheaters in olympic swimming by great leaps and bounds. So it sucks for her, but China made their bed by allowing cheating to go on for so long, and now they have to sleep in it
 
2012-08-01 01:28:56 PM
The article mentioned she wasn't always a swimmer. One of her teachers suggested it after observing she had large hands and feet for a girl her size.
Simple physics tells us she should be naturally faster than most other competitors. It is entirely believable this girl hit her peak at the right time....and is perhaps the greatest swimmer of all time. Unfortunately, the Chinese record of doping puts a foul smell on on otherwise remarkable athletic performance.
 
2012-08-01 01:58:10 PM

Bonkthat_Again: The article mentioned she wasn't always a swimmer. One of her teachers suggested it after observing she had large hands and feet for a girl her size.
Simple physics tells us she should be naturally faster than most other competitors. It is entirely believable this girl hit her peak at the right time....and is perhaps the greatest swimmer of all time. Unfortunately, the Chinese record of doping puts a foul smell on on otherwise remarkable athletic performance.


Michael Phelps says, "Pass the bong, dude." When she wins 8 gold medals or more in a single Olympic games, and when she has 19 or more Olympic medals, then maybe we can call her the greatest swimmer of all time. Until such a feat occurs, that title belongs to him. I don't discount that what she did, provided it wasn't through doping, was impressive.....just not anywhere near as impressive as what Phelps has managed to do in his career.
 
2012-08-01 02:21:45 PM

Magorn: Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR


Is it really so unbelievable that a girl can shave 5 seconds off their best in 1 year? I mean, last year, she was 15. I don't know if you remember when you were that age, but I gained a lot of inches in height between 15 and 16 as well as a lot more muscle.
 
2012-08-01 02:23:50 PM

RexTalionis: Magorn: Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR

Is it really so unbelievable that a girl can shave 5 seconds off their best in 1 year? I mean, last year, she was 15. I don't know if you remember when you were that age, but I gained a lot of inches in height between 15 and 16 as well as a lot more muscle.


In swimming, shaving a second off in a year is amazing. I don't know much about it but at this level, that would be extraordinary. Not impossible, or even unprecedented, but extraordinary.
 
2012-08-01 02:31:09 PM

RexTalionis: Magorn: Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR

Is it really so unbelievable that a girl can shave 5 seconds off their best in 1 year? I mean, last year, she was 15. I don't know if you remember when you were that age, but I gained a lot of inches in height between 15 and 16 as well as a lot more muscle.


For a man? no. For a woman? Yes. Puberty could explain a performance jump like that but 15 is awfully late to go through puberty for a woman, and the post-pubescent muscle mass change males get is one thing, but women don't get nearly as much, given that its largely testosterone based..
 
2012-08-01 02:38:29 PM

Bonkthat_Again: The article mentioned she wasn't always a swimmer. One of her teachers suggested it after observing she had large hands and feet for a girl her size.
Simple physics tells us she should be naturally faster than most other competitors. It is entirely believable this girl hit her peak at the right time....and is perhaps the greatest swimmer of all time. Unfortunately, the Chinese record of doping puts a foul smell on on otherwise remarkable athletic performance.


she could have been doping for YEARS ahead of beginning her training or before any of her testing.
If only there were some way to have monthly test for every year of her life. LOL
 
2012-08-01 02:40:12 PM

Magorn: For a man? no. For a woman? Yes. Puberty could explain a performance jump like that but 15 is awfully late to go through puberty for a woman, and the post-pubescent muscle mass change males get is one thing, but women don't get nearly as much, given that its largely testosterone based..


right
because there are no conditions which cause women to go through late puberty.
LOLOLOLOLOL

I know TONS of women who went through puberty late in life. from pituitary tumors to extreme athletes.
whatever
 
2012-08-01 03:10:29 PM
Show me some stats of the female gold medal winner's final 50 split vs the top 5 men in the same olympics/championship and we'll see if it's ever been done before.
 
2012-08-01 03:12:26 PM
It's China, we HAVE to believe what they say.

/because they own us.
 
2012-08-01 03:13:58 PM
Phelps shaved 3-4 seconds off his best times during those same ages. I'm just saying.
 
2012-08-01 03:15:18 PM

I_C_Weener: RexTalionis: Magorn: Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR

Is it really so unbelievable that a girl can shave 5 seconds off their best in 1 year? I mean, last year, she was 15. I don't know if you remember when you were that age, but I gained a lot of inches in height between 15 and 16 as well as a lot more muscle.

In swimming, shaving a second off in a year is amazing. I don't know much about it but at this level, that would be extraordinary. Not impossible, or even unprecedented, but extraordinary.


I believe that from my sophomore year to my junior year in high school, I dropped about 15 seconds in my 500 free. That said, I was nowhere near world-class ability at that time, but it is still possible.
 
2012-08-01 03:17:12 PM

I_C_Weener: Is she as hairy as an East German female athlete? No. Then she's as innocent as old one ball Armstrong.


maybe it's not drugs, but a secret chinese program of selective breeding and gene manipulation. OMG!! the rise of the frankenpeople!!!
 
2012-08-01 03:17:52 PM
I swam in high school. At 14, my best time in the 50 free was 45 seconds. At 15, I got it down to 38 seconds. Lots of changes going on in your teen years. Of course, I went from about 5'6" to 5'11" in that year.
 
2012-08-01 03:19:33 PM

A Fark Handle: I_C_Weener: Is she as hairy as an East German female athlete? No. Then she's as innocent as old one ball Armstrong.

maybe it's not drugs, but a secret chinese program of selective breeding and gene manipulation. OMG!! the rise of the frankenpeople!!!


I still think we should have continued our Thalidomide Flipper program. But noooo, Mark Spitz showed us we didn't need penguin children to win in swimming.
 
2012-08-01 03:20:31 PM
I'm more concerned about the outboard motor attached to her swimsuit.
 
2012-08-01 03:20:39 PM

Yukon Cornelius: I swam in high school. At 14, my best time in the 50 free was 45 seconds. At 15, I got it down to 38 seconds. Lots of changes going on in your teen years. Of course, I went from about 5'6" to 5'11" in that year.


The difference is those 5 seconds she shaved off made it a world record. Yes, everyone shaves off time as they grow and train, but when yoou shave off 5 seconds in one year, and that qualifies it for a world record, that is insane. Not impossible, but freakin insane.
 
2012-08-01 03:22:37 PM
Of course someone can swim in China, there is like 4 trillion people over there.........geeez people
 
2012-08-01 03:23:01 PM
Fark China. Kissinger should never have cut the deal to give them Haber-Bosch, should've let them starve. Shop Wal-Mart!
 
2012-08-01 03:24:02 PM

scottydoesntknow: Yukon Cornelius: I swam in high school. At 14, my best time in the 50 free was 45 seconds. At 15, I got it down to 38 seconds. Lots of changes going on in your teen years. Of course, I went from about 5'6" to 5'11" in that year.

The difference is those 5 seconds she shaved off made it a world record. Yes, everyone shaves off time as they grow and train, but when yoou shave off 5 seconds in one year, and that qualifies it for a world record, that is insane. Not impossible, but freakin insane.


She was bob beamon for a lap. Who cares. Her other spits have not been nearly as amazing.
 
2012-08-01 03:24:41 PM
I think the big stat is she broke the WR by a full second and the WR was set when the high-tech suits were being used a few years back and it's the only female WR to fall since.

It most of the events I've seen, nobody is really close to WR time this olympics when last olympics they were crushing WRs due to the suits.
 
2012-08-01 03:25:01 PM

Magorn: cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.

Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR, AND broke the world record by more than 1 second, the first woman to break a world record set with those "special" swinsuits that were used in Beijing let's just say the more likely outcome is the chinese have developed a new undetectable form of doping.


I think they clone their athletes in some farm underneath the mountains.
 
2012-08-01 03:25:09 PM
She didn't take drugs, but she hasn't passed her gender test yet
 
2012-08-01 03:25:37 PM

Slives: Personally I think she is clean. China is working very hard on its image as one of the greatest countries in the world. I don't think their leadership would be willing to risk doping their athletes and getting caught at it.
Just one or two cases would ruin it for every Chinese athlete for years to come.


They already caught one of their swimmers doping, so there goes that theory.

FTFA: after world champion Li Zhesi tested positive in June and was banned from competing in London.
 
2012-08-01 03:25:49 PM

scottydoesntknow: Yukon Cornelius: I swam in high school. At 14, my best time in the 50 free was 45 seconds. At 15, I got it down to 38 seconds. Lots of changes going on in your teen years. Of course, I went from about 5'6" to 5'11" in that year.

The difference is those 5 seconds she shaved off made it a world record. Yes, everyone shaves off time as they grow and train, but when yoou shave off 5 seconds in one year, and that qualifies it for a world record, that is insane. Not impossible, but freakin insane.


At the 2002 Pan Pacific Games, Michael Phelps went 1:59.70 in the 200 IM to win the race. Less than a year later, he had broken the world record in that race four times and lowered it to 1:55.94.
 
2012-08-01 03:26:00 PM

Slives: Personally I think she is clean. China is working very hard on its image as one of the greatest countries in the world. I don't think their leadership would be willing to risk doping their athletes and getting caught at it.
Just one or two cases would ruin it for every Chinese athlete for years to come.


Indeed. I think it's very honorable that they lovingly craft false birth certificates for their gymnastics teams.
 
2012-08-01 03:26:46 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Phelps shaved 3-4 seconds off his best times during those same ages. I'm just saying.


Phelps is a dude, and puberty in guys includes tons of testosterone, muscle growth, growth spurts, etc. Females.....not so much. Sure, they improve, but I still call bs on such drastic improvement at such a young age. 15 year old girls don't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger naturally.
 
2012-08-01 03:26:51 PM
 
2012-08-01 03:27:18 PM

Serious Black: scottydoesntknow: Yukon Cornelius: I swam in high school. At 14, my best time in the 50 free was 45 seconds. At 15, I got it down to 38 seconds. Lots of changes going on in your teen years. Of course, I went from about 5'6" to 5'11" in that year.

The difference is those 5 seconds she shaved off made it a world record. Yes, everyone shaves off time as they grow and train, but when yoou shave off 5 seconds in one year, and that qualifies it for a world record, that is insane. Not impossible, but freakin insane.

At the 2002 Pan Pacific Games, Michael Phelps went 1:59.70 in the 200 IM to win the race. Less than a year later, he had broken the world record in that race four times and lowered it to 1:55.94.


Are we entirely sure that he is not....Chinese?
 
2012-08-01 03:27:40 PM
Article shows her above the waist, maybe she is half shark like that sharktapuss movie.
 
2012-08-01 03:27:58 PM

Serious Black: scottydoesntknow: Yukon Cornelius: I swam in high school. At 14, my best time in the 50 free was 45 seconds. At 15, I got it down to 38 seconds. Lots of changes going on in your teen years. Of course, I went from about 5'6" to 5'11" in that year.

The difference is those 5 seconds she shaved off made it a world record. Yes, everyone shaves off time as they grow and train, but when yoou shave off 5 seconds in one year, and that qualifies it for a world record, that is insane. Not impossible, but freakin insane.

At the 2002 Pan Pacific Games, Michael Phelps went 1:59.70 in the 200 IM to win the race. Less than a year later, he had broken the world record in that race four times and lowered it to 1:55.94.


He doesn't want to hear that. Someone posted a list of Intl level 4 second improvements in the last 4 years the other day. People say it doesn't happen -they are simply incorrect.
 
2012-08-01 03:28:09 PM
Are there stories in other countries every olympics about how we only win because we cheat too? Anytime China does well, there are stories about how they are probably cheating.
 
2012-08-01 03:28:09 PM
FWIW, this is an interesting take on the matter: Link
 
2012-08-01 03:29:35 PM

MugzyBrown: I think the big stat is she broke the WR by a full second and the WR was set when the high-tech suits were being used a few years back and it's the only female WR to fall since.

It most of the events I've seen, nobody is really close to WR time this olympics when last olympics they were crushing WRs due to the suits.


Actually, there have been a number of world records set. Through yesterday, other than the Chinese girl's 400 IM, Dana Vollmer got the 100 fly record, and Cameron van der Burgh got the 100 breast record. I'd bet there will be at least two or three more by the end of the meet.
 
2012-08-01 03:30:19 PM
Good. Time to dump womens events and just have swimming events. Run with whatever genitalia youve got.
 
2012-08-01 03:31:01 PM

A Fark Handle: maybe it's not drugs, but a secret chinese program of selective breeding and gene manipulation. OMG!! the rise of the frankenpeople!!!


Not exactly off base. Yao Ming's parents were national basketball players. Their marriage was arranged because it was thought that their children would also be superior basketball players.
 
2012-08-01 03:32:21 PM

I_C_Weener: A Fark Handle: I_C_Weener: Is she as hairy as an East German female athlete? No. Then she's as innocent as old one ball Armstrong.

maybe it's not drugs, but a secret chinese program of selective breeding and gene manipulation. OMG!! the rise of the frankenpeople!!!

I still think we should have continued our Thalidomide Flipper program. But noooo, Mark Spitz showed us we didn't need penguin children to win in swimming.


yeah, but most of those only had one flipper and just swam in circles. and that's not going to get the job done in the olympics.
 
2012-08-01 03:33:05 PM

Magorn: cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.

Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR, AND broke the world record by more than 1 second, the first woman to break a world record set with those "special" swinsuits that were used in Beijing let's just say the more likely outcome is the chinese have developed a new undetectable form of doping.


Oh, you mean how Phelps shaved four seconds off of his best time in a year when he was that age?
 
2012-08-01 03:33:31 PM
It's not the record that I was looking at as much as HOW it occured, the last 100m she was FLYING, like not just not fading as much, actually getting stronger, which is just weird in an endurance event.

I like in the article they say no one worries about Bolt, but look at her split times compared to the men. If a chick came out and ran 9.65 in the 100M you bet your ass there would be doping talk.
 
2012-08-01 03:33:43 PM

mikaloyd: Good. Time to dump womens events and just have swimming events. Run with whatever genitalia youve got.


And name the athletes like you do horses. In lane one, we've got "Tantalizingly Robust" facing off with "No Doping", and in the far lane is "Paddle Hands" the returning Gold Medalist from London.
 
2012-08-01 03:34:10 PM

digistil: FWIW, this is an interesting take on the matter: Link


Nice. Good article.

Look, if she pops a positive, we can skin her and eat her later. But saying she cheated because she's Chinese and other Chinese people cheat is horseshiat.
 
2012-08-01 03:34:11 PM
Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.
 
2012-08-01 03:34:38 PM

cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.


No, her quote was: "My results come from hard work and training and I would never use any banned drugs," she told reporters in London. "The Chinese people have clean hands."



She never said she didn't use drugs. Just that she hasn't used BANNED drugs.

(Bath Salts creators are snickering atm)
 
2012-08-01 03:34:41 PM

mikaloyd: Good. Time to dump womens events and just have swimming events. Run with whatever genitalia youve got.


This would make boxing quite interesting for women's groups.
 
2012-08-01 03:34:53 PM

srhp29: Are there stories in other countries every olympics about how we only win because we cheat too? Anytime China does well, there are stories about how they are probably cheating.


Is it because they're caught cheating like every other Olympics, and keep their athletes in government-run training camps away from their families?
 
2012-08-01 03:35:47 PM

srhp29: Are there stories in other countries every olympics about how we only win because we cheat too? Anytime China does well, there are stories about how they are probably cheating.


again, the reason those stories come up in swimming is because the chinese swimming team has an unpralleled history of cheating. Do you see anyone saying they cheat in diving? because they win all those medals and not a soul ever suggests they cheated. The reason people suspect cheating on the swim team is because since 1990 china has had 40 swimmers (3x more than the next closest country) DQ'd for doping. They've been caught THIS YEAR in june with one of their swimmers doping. If china doesn't want to get suspected of doping everytime one of their swimmers does something unlikely and amazing, perhaps they should stop their swimmers from doping?
 
2012-08-01 03:35:57 PM

skrame: Magorn: cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.

Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR, AND broke the world record by more than 1 second, the first woman to break a world record set with those "special" swinsuits that were used in Beijing let's just say the more likely outcome is the chinese have developed a new undetectable form of doping.

Oh, you mean how Phelps shaved four seconds off of his best time in a year when he was that age?


In a shorter race no less. Dropping 15 seconds in a mile would be easy peasy. Dropping 15 seconds in a 50 would be inconceivable unless you were slow as molasses to begin with.
 
2012-08-01 03:36:16 PM
ME SO ANGLY WITE NOW
 
2012-08-01 03:37:20 PM

Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.


I should find the latest Armstrong/USADA thread and cross-reference it with this thread sometime.
 
2012-08-01 03:37:58 PM

Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.


No. This is the thread where people who defend Armstrong do exactly the opposite to the Chinese girl.
 
2012-08-01 03:38:20 PM

srhp29: Are there stories in other countries every olympics about how we only win because we cheat too? Anytime China does well, there are stories about how they are probably cheating.


Depends on the event. The world looks sideways at our track stars because we've had our issues.


Track record has a lot to do with perception (see what I did?)
 
2012-08-01 03:38:42 PM

JohnBigBootay: Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.

No. This is the thread where people who defend Armstrong do exactly the opposite to the Chinese girl.


She does have more genitalia. More of a man is what I'm trying to say.
 
2012-08-01 03:39:03 PM
it works for americans, so why not the chinese?

harrumpher.com
 
2012-08-01 03:40:34 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Phelps shaved 3-4 seconds off his best times during those same ages. I'm just saying.


Yes, but Phelps is on record saying how much he loves the dope.
 
2012-08-01 03:41:45 PM

tlchwi02: srhp29: Are there stories in other countries every olympics about how we only win because we cheat too? Anytime China does well, there are stories about how they are probably cheating.

again, the reason those stories come up in swimming is because the chinese swimming team has an unpralleled history of cheating. Do you see anyone saying they cheat in diving? because they win all those medals and not a soul ever suggests they cheated. The reason people suspect cheating on the swim team is because since 1990 china has had 40 swimmers (3x more than the next closest country) DQ'd for doping. They've been caught THIS YEAR in june with one of their swimmers doping. If china doesn't want to get suspected of doping everytime one of their swimmers does something unlikely and amazing, perhaps they should stop their swimmers from doping?


It's not doping, it's mystical turtles blood and ginseng root. Or whatever the fark they once claimed.
 
2012-08-01 03:43:06 PM

Serious Black: Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.

I should find the latest Armstrong/USADA thread and cross-reference it with this thread sometime.


Yep. Lance just trains hard and he's a genetic freak. Half his domestiques have tested positive but he was clean the entire time.

Soooo. Is passing drug tests proof of being clean or is it not proof of being clean?

/awaits equivocation
 
2012-08-01 03:46:03 PM

Flappyhead: It's not doping, it's mystical turtles blood and ginseng root. Or whatever the fark they once claimed.


wasn't it a magical worm?
 
2012-08-01 03:47:00 PM
If she was American, NBC would have aired a fawning hour long documentary on what she ate for breakfast already and everyone would be trumpeting our swimming program's dominance.
 
2012-08-01 03:47:42 PM
From Tennis Has a Steroid Problem:

Chinese Olympian Ye Shiwen is generating headlines galore. Many of them speculate about whether or not doping has anything to do with her success in the pool. Is she doping? I don't know. Do her exploits give reason for skepticism? Yes, that's where we are in sports. There's no denying that sports have given the public more than enough reasons to doubt "exceptional" feats of athleticism.
However, let's ask some questions:

Has Ye Shiwen ever locked herself in a panic room when doping control officers came to collect an out of competition sample (e.g. Serena Williams)?

Has Shiwen gone more than two years without an out-of-competition doping test (e.g., Serena Williams)?

Has Shiwen been treated by Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, who was banned for life by the USADA for anti-doping violations (e.g., Sara Errani)?

Has Shiwen complained about doping controls on multiple occasions (e.g., Andy Murray & Rafael Nadal)

Has Shiwen ever tested positive for a banned substance and then lied to officials to escape punishment (e.g., Andre Agassi)?

Haw Shiwen claimed that switching to a gluten-free diet is behind her success (e.g., Novak Djokovic)?

As far as I know, the answers to these questions are "No." So, maybe athletes in other sports need to be put under some heavy scrutiny, and not just Shiwen.
 
2012-08-01 03:50:20 PM

HotWingConspiracy: If she was American, NBC would have aired a fawning hour long documentary on what she ate for breakfast already and everyone would be trumpeting our swimming program's dominance.


Ryan Seacrest would be reading her tweets.

/sounds dirty
 
2012-08-01 03:53:46 PM

HotWingConspiracy: If she was American, NBC would have aired a fawning hour long documentary on what she ate for breakfast already and everyone would be trumpeting our swimming program's dominance.


This
 
2012-08-01 03:56:52 PM
I think it's pretty damn funny that the Chinese (as well as S. Korea and Indonesia) badminton team got DQ'ed.
 
2012-08-01 03:57:13 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: HotWingConspiracy: If she was American, NBC would have aired a fawning hour long documentary on what she ate for breakfast already and everyone would be trumpeting our swimming program's dominance.

This


That.

And I already know about her 12,000 calorie breakfast.
 
2012-08-01 03:58:07 PM

JohnBigBootay: Serious Black: scottydoesntknow: Yukon Cornelius: I swam in high school. At 14, my best time in the 50 free was 45 seconds. At 15, I got it down to 38 seconds. Lots of changes going on in your teen years. Of course, I went from about 5'6" to 5'11" in that year.

The difference is those 5 seconds she shaved off made it a world record. Yes, everyone shaves off time as they grow and train, but when yoou shave off 5 seconds in one year, and that qualifies it for a world record, that is insane. Not impossible, but freakin insane.

At the 2002 Pan Pacific Games, Michael Phelps went 1:59.70 in the 200 IM to win the race. Less than a year later, he had broken the world record in that race four times and lowered it to 1:55.94.

He doesn't want to hear that. Someone posted a list of Intl level 4 second improvements in the last 4 years the other day. People say it doesn't happen -they are simply incorrect.


Basically it is just the pre-emptive excuse for the USA not coming top of the medal table again, get in the unproven accusations of cheating at the opposition as soon and as often as possible, just like Birthers or Truthers or Moon landing nuts there no need to prove anything, just repeat "suspicious facts" and conjecture often enough and plenty of people will go along with it where it fits their world view.

/this is not to say I know anything about whether the Chinese Olympic team is clean, but if the losers are going to make unfounded and unproven accusations then just stop turning up and competing, because it makes the entire thing pointless.
 
2012-08-01 03:58:16 PM
Only a portion of her time was faster than Lochte's. She didn't sustain that pace throughout the race -- her total time was 23 seconds behind Lochte's 4:05.18.
 
2012-08-01 03:58:56 PM
Can we at least all agree that advertisers, television execs and brain dead on air "talent" are trying to hard to make Lochte happen. The guy has all the personality of Phelps with significantly less ability. Stop trying to make Lochte happen!
 
2012-08-01 03:59:16 PM

TheJoe03: I think it's pretty damn funny that the Chinese (as well as S. Korea and Indonesia) badminton team got DQ'ed.


That whole thing is stupid. Meanwhile the prelim swimming/track heats will feature athletes who routinely post times a full second slower than their best. Why they ought to disqualify the lot of them for not trying their hardest. I know, it's different. Wait, how is that different?
 
2012-08-01 04:03:02 PM

JohnBigBootay: Why they ought to disqualify the lot of them for not trying their hardest. I know, it's different. Wait, how is that different?


According to the badminton nerds, it was way too blatant and no one ever did that before in their sport. If you tank games, in any sport, the key is to not make it too obvious.
 
2012-08-01 04:04:14 PM

JohnBigBootay: Serious Black: Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.

I should find the latest Armstrong/USADA thread and cross-reference it with this thread sometime.

Yep. Lance just trains hard and he's a genetic freak. Half his domestiques have tested positive but he was clean the entire time.

Soooo. Is passing drug tests proof of being clean or is it not proof of being clean?

/awaits equivocation


Personally, I think they all dope. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.
 
2012-08-01 04:05:51 PM

JohnBigBootay: drjekel_mrhyde: HotWingConspiracy: If she was American, NBC would have aired a fawning hour long documentary on what she ate for breakfast already and everyone would be trumpeting our swimming program's dominance.

This

That.

And I already know about her 12,000 calorie breakfast.


I forget ... was it the US swimming coach that got caught with 13 viles of HGH in the sydney airport a decade ago? Oh wait that was the Chinese coach. Yeah, but there's no reason to suspect the most notorious cheating program in recent history or anything. We're just jealous, that's it.

The fact is, China has earned its reputation as cheaters, and it's been proven over and over.
 
2012-08-01 04:06:35 PM

xria: Basically it is just the pre-emptive excuse for the USA not coming top of the medal table again


Maybe, but this is something that should perhaps be looked into. Some kid coming out of no where and smashing a record using speed they've never shown before. At the same time, they should have quietly talked to the Olympic people about it, not blast the girl (who may be the best female swimmer if she's not a cheater) in the media and start a mini beef with China.
 
2012-08-01 04:06:47 PM

JohnBigBootay: TheJoe03: I think it's pretty damn funny that the Chinese (as well as S. Korea and Indonesia) badminton team got DQ'ed.

That whole thing is stupid. Meanwhile the prelim swimming/track heats will feature athletes who routinely post times a full second slower than their best. Why they ought to disqualify the lot of them for not trying their hardest. I know, it's different. Wait, how is that different?


I would say the difference is those people aren't trying to lose the prelims on purpose.
 
2012-08-01 04:10:21 PM
I think it's pretty naive not to presume that anyone who is performing around mankind's collective best in a sport hasn't used performance enhancing drugs at some point.

/rarely disapointed.
 
2012-08-01 04:12:07 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Can we at least all agree that advertisers, television execs and brain dead on air "talent" are trying to hard to make Lochte happen. The guy has all the personality of Phelps with significantly less ability. Stop trying to make Lochte happen!


Hey, Lochte is 100x better looking than Phelps, so they can put his face on tv whenever they want.
 
2012-08-01 04:12:39 PM
You know what I want? I want an Olympics where all the athletes are allowed to use any sort of performance-enhancing techniques they can. Biomechanical augmentation, blood doping, surgical procedures, HGH, steroids, you name it.

We've see what humans at the peak of their unaltered condition can do. I want to see what humans in all their augmented glory can do.
 
2012-08-01 04:12:51 PM
Yeah, like China would ever cheat to get ahead in the Olympics...
 
2012-08-01 04:14:49 PM

JohnBigBootay: TheJoe03: I think it's pretty damn funny that the Chinese (as well as S. Korea and Indonesia) badminton team got DQ'ed.

That whole thing is stupid. Meanwhile the prelim swimming/track heats will feature athletes who routinely post times a full second slower than their best. Why they ought to disqualify the lot of them for not trying their hardest. I know, it's different. Wait, how is that different?


Do the finals get any easier if you ease up in a prelim? No. From what I've read, though, the badminton teams were throwing their games so they'd have an easier time in the medal round (by avoiding tougher teams or something). I view that as a significantly worse offense. Not sure they should've been tossed, though...
 
2012-08-01 04:16:15 PM

D_Moran: Only a portion of her time was faster than Lochte's. She didn't sustain that pace throughout the race -- her total time was 23 seconds behind Lochte's 4:05.18.


This. She paced herself more than Lochte throughout the event and was able to swim faster than him in the final split. He beat her in every other split and like you said, swam the whole thing 23 seconds faster.
 
2012-08-01 04:16:25 PM

RexTalionis: You know what I want? I want an Olympics where all the athletes are allowed to use any sort of performance-enhancing techniques they can. Biomechanical augmentation, blood doping, surgical procedures, HGH, steroids, you name it.

We've see what humans at the peak of their unaltered condition can do. I want to see what humans in all their augmented glory can do.


Isn't that an SNL sketch where Dana Carvey's arms are ripped off doing weightlifting?
 
2012-08-01 04:17:06 PM

RexTalionis: You know what I want? I want an Olympics where all the athletes are allowed to use any sort of performance-enhancing techniques they can. Biomechanical augmentation, blood doping, surgical procedures, HGH, steroids, you name it.

We've see what humans at the peak of their unaltered condition can do. I want to see what humans in all their augmented glory can do.


lol, I agree. That would be entertaining. Strange like a freak show though.
 
rka
2012-08-01 04:17:11 PM

Vodka Zombie: Guilty until proven innocent IS the whiny-American way.


Where is it that the Americans are whining or even protesting?

I see a Reuters article about it. In that article they quote a British newspaper. They also point to a BBC commentator who's "just asking questions" apparently.

The US Women's coach is quoted as defending her.
 
2012-08-01 04:17:44 PM
This is no was a country that put GHB in children's toys would dope a child athlete...NEVER. What's next - lead in and various chemicals in random exported products?
 
2012-08-01 04:19:19 PM
I would imagine the majority of them are doping. Some are just better at getting away with it.
 
2012-08-01 04:21:10 PM

xria: /this is not to say I know anything about whether the Chinese Olympic team is clean, but if the losers are going to make unfounded and unproven accusations then just stop turning up and competing, because it makes the entire thing pointless.


They undoubtedly have some dirty athletes as do 'we'. For me it's just about the instant reaction - our exceptional times are because of big hands and huge breakfasts, their are obviously because of steroids. I'd rather focus on the amazing performance secure in the knowledge that each and every medal winner gets tested. So she's either gonna test positive and be stripped. Or she's clean. Or she's taking something undetectable which means we won't find out and she must be considered clean because what the fark else you gonna do?
 
2012-08-01 04:22:26 PM

RexTalionis: We've see what humans at the peak of their unaltered condition can do. I want to see what humans in all their augmented glory can do.


isn't that basically american football? they barely even pretend they test
 
2012-08-01 04:23:29 PM
In the US some athletes get caught doping - and we are ashamed (as a group).

In China it's a government run athlete factory - it's not just individuals being unscrupulous.
.
 
2012-08-01 04:24:26 PM

spiderpaz: RexTalionis: You know what I want? I want an Olympics where all the athletes are allowed to use any sort of performance-enhancing techniques they can. Biomechanical augmentation, blood doping, surgical procedures, HGH, steroids, you name it.

We've see what humans at the peak of their unaltered condition can do. I want to see what humans in all their augmented glory can do.

lol, I agree. That would be entertaining. Strange like a freak show though.


An all-drugs Olympics!

image.retrojunk.com

/miss that funny man
 
2012-08-01 04:24:41 PM

spiderpaz: The fact is, China has earned its reputation as cheaters, and it's been proven over and over.


Chinese has been busted cheating many times. Shall I give you a list of all the american track athletes who have popped a positive in the last decade? Wait here - I need to go get a bigger monitor.
 
rka
2012-08-01 04:26:38 PM

JohnBigBootay: spiderpaz: The fact is, China has earned its reputation as cheaters, and it's been proven over and over.

Chinese has been busted cheating many times. Shall I give you a list of all the american track athletes who have popped a positive in the last decade? Wait here - I need to go get a bigger monitor.


So when some American 16yr old beats a previous best by 5 seconds the world will have every right to look at it a bit funny.

That's how it works. Not "no one dare say anything because at some point we did it too".
 
2012-08-01 04:26:44 PM

YoungLochinvar: Do the finals get any easier if you ease up in a prelim? No. From what I've read, though, the badminton teams were throwing their games so they'd have an easier time in the medal round (by avoiding tougher teams or something). I view that as a significantly worse offense. Not sure they should've been tossed, though...


Eh, if it was as bad as they say something had to be done. I just wish that something hadn't been completely eliminating a lot of the best teams. They've all but rendered the medals ridiculous. They farked up, but they won't admit it.
 
2012-08-01 04:27:06 PM

JohnBigBootay: They undoubtedly have some dirty athletes as do 'we'. For me it's just about the instant reaction - our exceptional times are because of big hands and huge breakfasts, their are obviously because of steroids.


the only reason she even was in that race was because the original swimmer got busted for doping. i mean, come on. maybe its unfair, but how do you look at that situation and go "yeah, no, this seems totally legit. no possible question"?
 
2012-08-01 04:27:57 PM

JohnBigBootay: Serious Black: scottydoesntknow: Yukon Cornelius: I swam in high school. At 14, my best time in the 50 free was 45 seconds. At 15, I got it down to 38 seconds. Lots of changes going on in your teen years. Of course, I went from about 5'6" to 5'11" in that year.

The difference is those 5 seconds she shaved off made it a world record. Yes, everyone shaves off time as they grow and train, but when yoou shave off 5 seconds in one year, and that qualifies it for a world record, that is insane. Not impossible, but freakin insane.

At the 2002 Pan Pacific Games, Michael Phelps went 1:59.70 in the 200 IM to win the race. Less than a year later, he had broken the world record in that race four times and lowered it to 1:55.94.

He doesn't want to hear that. Someone posted a list of Intl level 4 second improvements in the last 4 years the other day. People say it doesn't happen -they are simply incorrect.


Hey thanks for speaking for me! Now point out where I said it "doesn't happen", because I'm pretty sure I said it wasn't impossible. I was just showing why people think it's extraordinary.
 
2012-08-01 04:28:23 PM

JohnBigBootay: spiderpaz: The fact is, China has earned its reputation as cheaters, and it's been proven over and over.

Chinese has been busted cheating many times. Shall I give you a list of all the american track athletes who have popped a positive in the last decade? Wait here - I need to go get a bigger monitor.


In the US some athletes get caught doping - and we are ashamed (as a group).

In China it's a government run athlete factory - it's not just individuals being unscrupulous.
 
2012-08-01 04:29:56 PM

rka: So when some American 16yr old beats a previous best by 5 seconds the world will have every right to look at it a bit funny.


Yet when phelps knocked four seconds off last olympics we had no suspicions. Because of the big breakfast I guess.

http://www.theage.com.au/olympics/swimming-london-2012/dont-be-too-qu i ck-to-question-chinese-success-20120731-23b6j.html

That article posted earlier is really quite well done and may answer some of your concerns or at least point out a few things that may temper your reaction. At the end of the day I don;t know that she clean and you damn sure don't know she's dirty.
 
2012-08-01 04:32:27 PM

tlchwi02: but how do you look at that situation and go "yeah, no, this seems totally legit. no possible question"?


I don't. I say, damn!, knowing that all medal winners are drug tested. If she doesn't come back positive, and she hasn't, what would you have me do?
 
2012-08-01 04:35:20 PM
There were suspicions on Phelps. Not in the US b/c the media there wasn't going to dig for it. However, other countries and athletes had their doubts.

Phelps was tagged as the next big thing when he was young and impressed at the 2004 games - then at the worlds. If Phelps was doping then it was him, or his coach, or his trainer. Not a country at large - a country which controls everything. They can provide any documents and testing they want bc they run everything. The one exception is the randoms that the IOC and the Swimming Federation administers.
 
2012-08-01 04:35:34 PM

rumpelstiltskin: When I was a kid in the 70s, I remember Bob Beamon's world record was an awesome thing. I don't remember any controversy, it was just cool that a human did that.
Strange things happen. It doesn't mean anyone cheated. There are people who are paid to suspect cheaters and root them out. I'm not one of them, so I'm just going to think it was an awesome swim until someone tells me otherwise, who has more evidence than "I thought about this really hard, and I decided she cheated."


Where were you during the Ryan Braun threads?
 
2012-08-01 04:38:28 PM

HotWingConspiracy: If she was American, NBC would have aired a fawning hour long documentary on what she ate for breakfast already and everyone would be trumpeting our swimming program's dominance.


Wheaties, the breakfast of champions, obviously.
 
2012-08-01 04:39:24 PM

BrotherMalcolm: In the US some athletes get caught doping - and we are ashamed (as a group).

In China it's a government run athlete factory - it's not just individuals being unscrupulous.



So, you want me to say bad things about the totalitarian chinese government? Ok, I think they often behave poorly and they should be ashamed. That certainly doesn't mean all the chinese medal winners are dirty any more than all the us track athletes should be guilty by association because of marion jones. I don't think most americans 'are ashamed' when athletes get caught doping. Take your lance armstrong. He's celebrated coast to coast despite half his TDF teams being chock full of dopers. I don't see a lot of embarrassment when toasting those victories even though every single one of those teams contained verified drug cheats. Would he have won without the confirmed cheaters ferrying him up the hill? I don't know.
 
2012-08-01 04:42:07 PM

JohnBigBootay: tlchwi02: but how do you look at that situation and go "yeah, no, this seems totally legit. no possible question"?

I don't. I say, damn!, knowing that all medal winners are drug tested. If she doesn't come back positive, and she hasn't, what would you have me do?


Because the cheaters are never one step ahead of the testers? And the testing orgs and/ or judges are never able to be bribed by the richest countries in the world?

Both have occurred recently!

Most people have accepted that Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds were on something at some point....yet neither every tested positive. Meanwhile, most everyone else around them that were pretty darn good but not quite at their level were testing positive. Then we find out that Bonds and Balco had drugs that were not showing up on the current tests.
 
2012-08-01 04:42:19 PM

scottydoesntknow: Hey thanks for speaking for me! Now point out where I said it "doesn't happen", because I'm pretty sure I said it wasn't impossible. I was just showing why people think it's extraordinary.


I wasn't referring to you in particular with the 'people say' comment. Apologies anyway though.
 
2012-08-01 04:45:12 PM

JohnBigBootay: BrotherMalcolm: In the US some athletes get caught doping - and we are ashamed (as a group).

In China it's a government run athlete factory - it's not just individuals being unscrupulous.


So, you want me to say bad things about the totalitarian chinese government? Ok, I think they often behave poorly and they should be ashamed. That certainly doesn't mean all the chinese medal winners are dirty any more than all the us track athletes should be guilty by association because of marion jones. I don't think most americans 'are ashamed' when athletes get caught doping. Take your lance armstrong. He's celebrated coast to coast despite half his TDF teams being chock full of dopers. I don't see a lot of embarrassment when toasting those victories even though every single one of those teams contained verified drug cheats. Would he have won without the confirmed cheaters ferrying him up the hill? I don't know.


First - he is not my Lance Armstrong. I am English.

I do live in the US and while I think he is the best cyclist of all time it's because in a time of doping he was the best at it!
 
2012-08-01 04:45:40 PM

BrotherMalcolm: Because the cheaters are never one step ahead of the testers? And the testing orgs and/ or judges are never able to be bribed by the richest countries in the world?

Both have occurred recently!

Most people have accepted that Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds were on something at some point....yet neither every tested positive. Meanwhile, most everyone else around them that were pretty darn good but not quite at their level were testing positive. Then we find out that Bonds and Balco had drugs that were not showing up on the current tests.



So I should go ahead and assume she's guilty? Sorry. She's being tested - right now at these very games with the latest greatest tests they have. They'll certainly tell us if she tests positive. And at that point I will condemn the peking duck out of her. If she doesn't, sorry, I'm not gonna be able to get on board with assuming she's a cheat.
 
2012-08-01 04:49:16 PM

BrotherMalcolm: I do live in the US and while I think he is the best cyclist of all time it's because in a time of doping he was the best at it!


Well, congrats to Mr Wiggins. I hope he's as clean as a whistle. I think lance is the best TDF cyclist of all time. I do strongly suspect he doped as well.... in that I don't think there's a top 100 guy who hasn't... but I'll go with M. Merckx as best cyclist all around though.
 
2012-08-01 04:50:36 PM
The suspicious thing to me is all of the negative splitting going on with the Chinese swimmers. They are going out there and then the last 50m they are closing with superhuman speeds when they should be oxygen deprived. There are alot of examples of this, not just Ye Shiwen - look at the girl who just won the 200 fly, Jiao. Compare it with the US swimmers. Soni's WR swim was progressively slower times. The Chinese girl's near WR time in the 200 fly had a final split of 31.31 - A good second faster than anyone else, at a time when your body needs oxygen the most. Now it's possible they are so well conditioned to do negative splits that this is the result - but it's very suspicious to me. At the elite level, this typically means you have more oxygen in your system at the end because you're doing something. The fly is an incredibly tough oxygen eater. And that 200fly girl had the fastest split time in the non techsuit era - the fastest non 50m split time of ANYONE in the whole event (aside from the first 50m split which includes time off the blocks). And at the end of the race? I swam in high school, the fly is an awful tough swim.

I'm not going to say any of these girls cheated and I'm not going to say the US doesn't take PEDs also. But it is very suspicious and I would not be surprised at all to discover doping was occuring. One of the 400 IMers was caught with EPO before the Olympics - EPO is a type of drug that I guarantee you gives you more in the tank at the end of endurance events, which are the types of events they are winning. The Chinese have a history of it (just as the US does, we should admit, although everyone in track and field dopes, trust me).
 
2012-08-01 04:52:26 PM
I also do not ASSUME she is guilty. I am however very suspicious. I and many other sport fans have been let down by stars that at one point we rooted for then to find out later they to were cheating (Manny Ramirez, Rodney Harrison)

The fact that she is Chinese unfortunately provides some guilt by association. Truly tragic if she is innocent. Hell, she MAY have been cheating totally unbeknownst to her. She was in primary schools as a young girl - next thing she is in a Chicom swim factory and told to swim, serve her country, and her family will prosper. As a young girl she is lucky she was executed for not being born a male.
 
2012-08-01 04:52:48 PM

bdub77: EPO


They are testing for EPO at these games. One would assume, perhaps erroneously, that if they are taking it they'll test positive for it.
 
2012-08-01 04:59:10 PM
She won because she best swimmer in pool. American with there big penisis think they better than Chinese. fark them.
 
2012-08-01 05:01:11 PM

BrotherMalcolm: The fact that she is Chinese unfortunately provides some guilt by association.


See, that's sort of my problem. Not that china hasn't had lots of doping problems - they certainly have. But I can site here and quite easily rattle off 20 household name American athletes (not necessarily olympians) who have tested positive for PED's in the last decade. I honestly don't know what I consider worse - a nameless state run program or a number of individuals voluntarily choosing to cheat. We Americans often seem to exempt our own celebrated athletes... like armstrong who at the very least was greatly aided by systemic cheating. Carl Lewis tested positive but no one ever even brings it up.
 
2012-08-01 05:04:28 PM
Some drugs and doping methods have certain windows where you test positive for them.
The EPO indicators (they do not actually test for "EPO") can take as long as a month or a quick as a 24-48 hrs (depending) to clear.

There all always new metods of hiding the precursors and indicators. Athletes in the past have even gone so far a to have huge transfusions of their own blood! Go on some cycling, track, or body building sites! It's amazing. Not sure how acurate the HGH test are still - they are still learning about it.
 
2012-08-01 05:06:21 PM

BrotherMalcolm: Athletes in the past have even gone so far a to have huge transfusions of their own blood!


I've been thinking about doing this for weekend bike rides but I don't think my wife would let me keep it in the fridge.
 
2012-08-01 05:06:22 PM
Meh. This all pretty much sour grapes until she pops dirty on a test.

However I will say that it is possible to make a PED that won't show up on test and she could be using that. And for the people who are skeptical of that just look up Balco. For years they were giving athletes their own designer PED's that weren't showing up on any test and weren't found out until a track coach took a sample of what Balco had offered one of his runners to the IOC to get it tested.
 
2012-08-01 05:07:19 PM

JohnBigBootay: Serious Black: Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.

I should find the latest Armstrong/USADA thread and cross-reference it with this thread sometime.

Yep. Lance just trains hard and he's a genetic freak. Half his domestiques have tested positive but he was clean the entire time.

Soooo. Is passing drug tests proof of being clean or is it not proof of being clean?

/awaits equivocation


I'd agree. There's just as much of a chance that he was doping as Ye Shiwen is doping currently. I have no idea if either of them actually did. All we know is that all of their tests have come back clean. We have to presume innocence.
 
2012-08-01 05:09:04 PM
People can't really be this naive about PEDs.
 
2012-08-01 05:11:09 PM

Serious Black: JohnBigBootay: Serious Black: Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.

I should find the latest Armstrong/USADA thread and cross-reference it with this thread sometime.

Yep. Lance just trains hard and he's a genetic freak. Half his domestiques have tested positive but he was clean the entire time.

Soooo. Is passing drug tests proof of being clean or is it not proof of being clean?

/awaits equivocation

I'd agree. There's just as much of a chance that he was doping as Ye Shiwen is doping currently. I have no idea if either of them actually did. All we know is that all of their tests have come back clean. We have to presume innocence.


Which is for me a very high percentage. Lance was almost definitely doping. Hell most of those TdF guys are doping. I don't believe for a second that Lance is innocent, but he was probably very good about keeping it a secret. I always thought since the guy only had one testicle that he could be doing testosterone and maybe it wasn't even showing up irregular for him. (That said I have no idea if that is even scientifically credible.)
 
2012-08-01 05:15:12 PM

JohnBigBootay: So, you want me to say bad things about the totalitarian chinese government?


I think his point is that an american or british or laotian athlete trains generally as an individual- the coach and the athlete work together in a private facility, then the athlete comes to the countries sponsored olympic trials and if they have the skills they get on the team. If an athlete is doping under those conditions, it is something they are doing as an individual or an individual/coach. The US olympic team is not aware of or aiding that.

with the chinese the government committee goes around the country, collecting the best athletes and bringing them to special sponsored camps where their diets, training and living quarters are all monitored by a team of government coaches. The chinese teams have copped in the past to organizing doping for the entire group under those conditions (which was originally a big thing in east germany.)

The idea then is that a system which has admitted to organized doping at the system level (rather than an individual level) which is still having team members getting caught in the tests casts more suspicion on the rest of the team members than a system where the individual athletes are not under the direction of a central controller.
 
2012-08-01 05:15:47 PM

tlchwi02: So it sucks for her, but China made their bed by allowing cheating to go on for so long, and now they have to sleep in it


Bad Mitton, BAD.
/sorry, had to use that one last time.
//is occasionally shameless
 
2012-08-01 05:18:52 PM

Slives: Personally I think she is clean. China is working very hard on its image as one of the greatest countries in the world.


Which they showed by cheating in Badminton.
 
2012-08-01 05:21:34 PM
I'm surprised everyone is taking the "15 year old" part at face value. China also has been caught altering the ages of past Olympic athletes.
 
2012-08-01 05:21:57 PM

RexTalionis: Magorn: Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR

Is it really so unbelievable that a girl can shave 5 seconds off their best in 1 year? I mean, last year, she was 15. I don't know if you remember when you were that age, but I gained a lot of inches in height between 15 and 16 as well as a lot more muscle.


At the top level in that specific event? Yeah.

The last time it happened was Atlanta and the medal was stripped because the woman was doping. In that case she wasn't beating the times of the best men in the world either.

And China has already been caught doping their swimmers in recent history as well.
 
2012-08-01 05:23:32 PM

tlchwi02: The idea then is that a system which has admitted to organized doping at the system level (rather than an individual level) which is still having team members getting caught in the tests casts more suspicion on the rest of the team members than a system where the individual athletes are not under the direction of a central controller.


Well said.

Yeah, I get that. If and when a chinese track/swimmer tests positive at these games I will pity them, knowing it likely wasn't even their choice to do so.
 
2012-08-01 05:25:33 PM

astroman05: I'm surprised everyone is taking the "15 year old" part at face value. China also has been caught altering the ages of past Olympic athletes.


Only in cases where there is a benefit or rules regarding age. There is neither in this case.
 
2012-08-01 05:25:40 PM

SharkTrager: Which they showed by cheating in Badminton.


One must work very hard at trying to equate intentionally losing a prelim, against someone else intentionally trying to lose a prelim, with taking PED's. So good job.
 
2012-08-01 05:26:05 PM

astroman05: I'm surprised everyone is taking the "15 year old" part at face value. China also has been caught altering the ages of past Olympic athletes.


You think she's 14? There's no reason to say she's 15 if she's older, the only reason to lie about ages in the olympics is to get younger people into the contest, and that pretty much only matters for women's gymnastics.
 
2012-08-01 05:26:29 PM
The real issue is that this seems to follow the format that the East German women used.

There are multiple groups of swimmers, only some are seen at international competitions (this one hadn't been at a meet in a year and a half or so). They're all on different doping regimen. The ones out in the public eye are going to be regularly tested, you can use them to find out what WADA is capable of catching. The ones not at meets aren't tested because they don't have "official" times that are fast enough to warrant it. When the public athletes get caught, the athletes on the right doping/cleansing cycles take their spot.

You're not going to catch her with a drug test, unless a blood sample is saved and tested a few years down the road with advanced testing procedures.
 
2012-08-01 05:28:31 PM

SharkTrager: astroman05: I'm surprised everyone is taking the "15 year old" part at face value. China also has been caught altering the ages of past Olympic athletes.

Only in cases where there is a benefit or rules regarding age. There is neither in this case.


You mean other than the fact that one could argue the best age for showing unbelievable progression is between 15 and 16? If this girl was 20 it would probably look a lot weirder. That being said I highly doubt this is the case.
 
2012-08-01 05:29:57 PM
you are a moron if you think she is clean. a naive moron. Go back to kissing your Lance Armstrong posters. Dopes. pun intended.
 
2012-08-01 05:31:11 PM

SharkTrager: Slives: Personally I think she is clean. China is working very hard on its image as one of the greatest countries in the world.

Which they showed by cheating in Badminton.


I, uh, how can that slives say that with a straight face. uh, wait. Type that with a straight finger?
 
2012-08-01 05:33:21 PM

cretinbob: cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.

Yes, it might just be possible that, you know, she's a faster swimmer.


Her medley was telling. Good performance in the first three styles and a blazing free-style finish. If she was on performance-enhancing drugs, she would have done better in the fixed styles. I think she has just trained her free-style stroke to perfection.
 
2012-08-01 05:36:39 PM

cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.


Armstrong never tested positive either. Blood transfusions are an amazing thing.
 
2012-08-01 05:38:46 PM

natazha: cretinbob: cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.

Yes, it might just be possible that, you know, she's a faster swimmer.

Her medley was telling. Good performance in the first three styles and a blazing free-style finish. If she was on performance-enhancing drugs, she would have done better in the fixed styles. I think she has just trained her free-style stroke to perfection.


She's on China's 800 free relay for finals. Her performance there will show whether that's true or not. With that kind of a finish on her 400 IM, I would expect her to be able to split at least a 1:56.
 
2012-08-01 05:47:22 PM

Magorn: I_C_Weener: Is she as hairy as an East German female athlete? No. Then she's as innocent as old one ball Armstrong.

No but she does look like a distant relative of Arnold Schwarzenegger and that "lantern jaw" is a tell when it comes to steriod use


My personal belief is that at least half the athletes are on something undetectable via tests. There is a decent amount of money (sponsorship, not prize) and lots of national pride on the line here. Lots of nationals are likely supporting some interesting pharmaceutical programs for their athletes. The magical 5 second drop and the fact she beat some male swimmers legs to me just says her coach got greedy and gave her too much of whatever before the race. You have to dope them to the point they have plausible deniability and this guy likely went beyond that.
 
2012-08-01 05:56:59 PM

Morpheses: Personally, I think they all dope. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.


It's like they should have doping without being detected an Olympic sport
 
2012-08-01 05:59:05 PM

srhp29: Are there stories in other countries every olympics about how we only win because we cheat too? Anytime China does well, there are stories about how they are probably cheating.


You mean the communist country known for doping their swimmers?
 
2012-08-01 06:04:28 PM
Foreigners should be only allowed to takes drugs that will make them lose to Americans. That way the integrity of the sport will be maintained.
 
2012-08-01 06:05:26 PM

links136: srhp29: Are there stories in other countries every olympics about how we only win because we cheat too? Anytime China does well, there are stories about how they are probably cheating.

You mean the communist country known for doping their swimmers?


All medalists are drug tested. Show me the positive and I will happily deride her. Right now though I'm assuming big hands and a 12,000 calorie breakfast. If China has a way to beat drug tests then why did those other aforementioned swimmers from China get caught?
 
2012-08-01 06:09:37 PM

uksocal: There are multiple groups of swimmers, only some are seen at international competitions (this one hadn't been at a meet in a year and a half or so).


Yeah. She's more mysterious and elusive than Carlos the Jackal she is. And she has been hiding out. Hiding in plain sight I suppose, like when she won a gold medal last year at the world championships. Ingenious - no one would ever have thought to look for her there.
 
2012-08-01 06:10:43 PM

you have pee hands: astroman05: I'm surprised everyone is taking the "15 year old" part at face value. China also has been caught altering the ages of past Olympic athletes.

You think she's 14? There's no reason to say she's 15 if she's older, the only reason to lie about ages in the olympics is to get younger people into the contest, and that pretty much only matters for women's gymnastics.


The Olympics aren't the only game in town though. There are a huge number of world level sporting events throughout a given year that have age limits at 16, 18, 19, 20, 21... etc.
 
2012-08-01 06:14:11 PM

cretinbob: cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.

Yes, it might just be possible that, you know, she's a faster swimmer.


But she's not American so it must be drugs.

Obviously i don't know either way but i guess guilty until proven innocent is the way it goes.
 
2012-08-01 06:16:36 PM
It isn't always about cheating, there's the brutality, too.
 
2012-08-01 06:23:23 PM

Sherman Potter: It isn't always about cheating, there's the brutality, too.


This article should shut up the people defending China.
 
2012-08-01 06:24:21 PM

Happy Hours: Morpheses: Personally, I think they all dope. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.

It's like they should have doping without being detected an Olympic sport


they do. it's all of them...
 
2012-08-01 06:29:27 PM

consider this: This article should shut up the people defending China.


Why? A lot of that shiat is horrible from the US perspective. But it doesn't mean the chinese swimmer was doping.
 
2012-08-01 06:31:09 PM

JohnBigBootay: Why? A lot of that shiat is horrible from the US perspective.


That shiat is horrible from a human perspective.
 
2012-08-01 06:33:30 PM

consider this: That shiat is horrible from a human perspective.


Sure. What shall we do about that?
 
2012-08-01 06:36:24 PM
"My results come from hard work and training and I would never use any banned drugs," So she admits to using drugs to enhance her performance.... sounds guilty to me.
 
2012-08-01 06:39:16 PM

natazha: I think she has just trained her free-style stroke to perfection.


This. She also probably paced herself well.
 
2012-08-01 06:39:51 PM

Magorn: I_C_Weener: Is she as hairy as an East German female athlete? No. Then she's as innocent as old one ball Armstrong.

No but she does look like a distant relative of Arnold Schwarzenegger and that "lantern jaw" is a tell when it comes to steriod use


Do you mean like the acne Carl Lewis had is his thirties that was often a sign of steroids?
 
2012-08-01 06:40:00 PM

SharkTrager: RexTalionis: Magorn: Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR

Is it really so unbelievable that a girl can shave 5 seconds off their best in 1 year? I mean, last year, she was 15. I don't know if you remember when you were that age, but I gained a lot of inches in height between 15 and 16 as well as a lot more muscle.

At the top level in that specific event? Yeah.


Why? Phelps did it.

And yeah, sure, she is not male, but if ever there was a reason why a teenage girl might have late-onset puberty with sudden muscle development, being an extreme athlete would give the abnormal testosterone levels to do it.
 
2012-08-01 06:42:33 PM
What hard work and training might look like.

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2012-08-01 06:43:23 PM

JohnBigBootay: Sure. What shall we do about that?


The IOC should be doing something about it.
 
2012-08-01 06:49:01 PM
I would think if PEDs were a big factor we'd see strong times across all disciplines in the IM, but that's not the case. I didn't see the 400, but I watched the 200, and she was behind after the fly, leading after the back, behind again after the breaststroke, and took it in the crawl.

Watching the underwater camera I noticed her hips moving a LOT more than anyone elses in the crawl. I wonder if she hasn't found a technique to give more power to her flutterkick, which would improve her backstroke and crawl times.

Hope I can catch seeing her in another race to see if that hip-twist thing is as pronounced as I thought.
 
2012-08-01 06:52:25 PM

mikaloyd: Good. Time to dump womens events and just have swimming events. Run with whatever genitalia youve got.


I can swim pretty fast, but with this tiny rudder, it takes me a full minute, and four lanes to turn around.
 
2012-08-01 06:54:32 PM

consider this: The IOC should be doing something about it.


Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!

The IOC knows what the US knows. It's a hell of a lot easier to biatch and moan about china than it is to actually do something about it. Our half a trillion dollar trade imbalance with them isn't going anywhere and neither is their olympic team.
 
2012-08-01 06:57:28 PM

JohnBigBootay: rka: So when some American 16yr old beats a previous best by 5 seconds the world will have every right to look at it a bit funny.

Yet when phelps knocked four seconds off last olympics we had no suspicions. Because of the big breakfast I guess.

http://www.theage.com.au/olympics/swimming-london-2012/dont-be-too-qu i ck-to-question-chinese-success-20120731-23b6j.html

That article posted earlier is really quite well done and may answer some of your concerns or at least point out a few things that may temper your reaction. At the end of the day I don;t know that she clean and you damn sure don't know she's dirty.


You may recall that in Beijing all the athletes were wearing high tech Swim suits that mimicked shark skin and made the athletes much faster, so much so that those suits are now banned. World records fell like rain in Beijing. Now this 15 year old just shaved a second off of those equipment enhanced times, in a normal suit, after never in her life being close to being that fast.

And she the product of system that has been caught doping before, just had a doctor who oversaw the system for 20 years confess to systemic doping, and has a gold medal diver who is nearly blind because they started diving her so young and so relentlessly that her eyes didn't develop properly.
 
2012-08-01 07:02:21 PM

Magorn: You may recall


What I recall is all medalists being drug tested. She seems to have passed. If they get a different result later, hang her and I'll throw the first egg. What I'm not gonna do absent a positive test is judge her guilty by association and a bunch of circumstantial bullshiat.
 
2012-08-01 07:02:32 PM

bdub77: The suspicious thing to me is all of the negative splitting going on with the Chinese swimmers. They are going out there and then the last 50m they are closing with superhuman speeds when they should be oxygen deprived. There are alot of examples of this, not just Ye Shiwen - look at the girl who just won the 200 fly, Jiao. Compare it with the US swimmers. Soni's WR swim was progressively slower times. The Chinese girl's near WR time in the 200 fly had a final split of 31.31 - A good second faster than anyone else, at a time when your body needs oxygen the most. Now it's possible they are so well conditioned to do negative splits that this is the result - but it's very suspicious to me. At the elite level, this typically means you have more oxygen in your system at the end because you're doing something. The fly is an incredibly tough oxygen eater. And that 200fly girl had the fastest split time in the non techsuit era - the fastest non 50m split time of ANYONE in the whole event (aside from the first 50m split which includes time off the blocks). And at the end of the race? I swam in high school, the fly is an awful tough swim.

I'm not going to say any of these girls cheated and I'm not going to say the US doesn't take PEDs also. But it is very suspicious and I would not be surprised at all to discover doping was occuring. One of the 400 IMers was caught with EPO before the Olympics - EPO is a type of drug that I guarantee you gives you more in the tank at the end of endurance events, which are the types of events they are winning. The Chinese have a history of it (just as the US does, we should admit, although everyone in track and field dopes, trust me).


Also has the Olympic ever figured out how to test for Tour de France style red blood cell packing where you take your own blood out, centrifuge it to pack the red blood cells more densely and then re-inject into the body right before a race? Since its your own blood, detecting that would seem nigh impossible?
 
2012-08-01 07:03:31 PM

BrotherMalcolm: JohnBigBootay: spiderpaz: The fact is, China has earned its reputation as cheaters, and it's been proven over and over.

Chinese has been busted cheating many times. Shall I give you a list of all the american track athletes who have popped a positive in the last decade? Wait here - I need to go get a bigger monitor.

In the US some athletes get caught doping - and we are ashamed (as a group).

In China it's a government run athlete factory - it's not just individuals being unscrupulous.


I think that's the most significant point. In the case of the US, the USASA goes out of its way to hold US athletes to an even higher standard - if you need an example of this look at how scrutinized Lance Armstrong has been by the institutions WITHIN the US. China on the other hand is helping (sometimes forcing) its athletes to cheat.
 
2012-08-01 07:07:37 PM

JohnBigBootay: Our half a trillion dollar trade imbalance with them isn't going anywhere


You know this isn't the politics or business tab, right?
 
2012-08-01 07:07:50 PM

JohnBigBootay: Magorn: You may recall

What I recall is all medalists being drug tested. She seems to have passed. If they get a different result later, hang her and I'll throw the first egg. What I'm not gonna do absent a positive test is judge her guilty by association and a bunch of circumstantial bullshiat.


Well that would be letting facts get in the way of your gut feeling.
 
2012-08-01 07:12:08 PM

consider this: You know this isn't the politics or business tab, right?


You're the one going on about government programs and human rights. Don't open the door if you don't want anyone walking in.
 
2012-08-01 07:19:04 PM

JohnBigBootay: You're the one going on about government programs and human rights.


I am? The only person going on here is you.
 
2012-08-01 07:29:37 PM
IMPOSSIBRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-01 07:39:47 PM
There's no way that dude wasn't doping. None.
 
2012-08-01 07:47:19 PM
Some of you seem to not be reading the headline. She may have grounds to be upset that people are questioning her abilities. The Chinese officials, on the other hand have absolutely no grounds for getting upset given their history. In fact they should expect an outcry every time one of their swimmers does this. And also every time one of their gymnasts loses a baby tooth during competition.
 
2012-08-01 07:52:22 PM

Sherman Potter: What hard work and training might look like.

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x800]


What the hell is that?
 
2012-08-01 07:59:33 PM

Wise_Guy: What the hell is that?


This is how you win Gold!
 
2012-08-01 08:02:47 PM

Wise_Guy: Sherman Potter: What hard work and training might look like.

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x800]

What the hell is that?


It's a little girl being "trained" or abused, depending on your perspective.
 
2012-08-01 08:11:40 PM

Crewmannumber6: It's China, we HAVE to believe what they say.

/because they own us.


"When you can't pay a hundred thousand dollar mortgage, it's your problem. When you can't pay a hundred million dollar mortgage, it's the bank's problem."
 
2012-08-01 08:16:52 PM

srhp29: Are there stories in other countries every olympics about how we only win because we cheat too? Anytime China does well, there are stories about how they are probably cheating.


Lance Armstrong might have something to say about that.
 
2012-08-01 08:20:05 PM

consider this: cmunic8r99: Since she hasn't tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, perhaps they should be upset.

Armstrong never tested positive either. Blood transfusions are an amazing thing.


And apparently homologous and autologous transfusions are detectable.


http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/9789/Autologous-blood-transfusion-t e st-could-be-in-place-for-London-Olympics.aspx
 
2012-08-01 08:21:11 PM

JohnBigBootay: Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.

No. This is the thread where people who defend Armstrong do exactly the opposite to the Chinese girl.


Not me. Neither have failed a drug test. Wake me when one does.
 
2012-08-01 08:30:12 PM

Sherman Potter: What hard work and training might look like.


WTF am I looking at?
 
2012-08-01 08:30:38 PM

Morpheses: Is this the thread where the same people who accuse Armstrong of doping come to defend this swimmer because she's never tested positive?

Heh.


No, it's the thread where when you put your kids to bed tonight, you're thankful they aren't being raised as Olympic Livestock and having their legs stood-upon.
 
2012-08-01 08:34:42 PM

Sherman Potter: Wise_Guy: Sherman Potter: What hard work and training might look like.

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x800]

What the hell is that?

It's a little girl being "trained" or abused, depending on your perspective.


Ok. Including Rugby Jock, that's the most disturbing link I've seen on Fark in ten years.
 
2012-08-01 09:09:28 PM

JohnBigBootay: That whole thing is stupid. Meanwhile the prelim swimming/track heats will feature athletes who routinely post times a full second slower than their best. Why they ought to disqualify the lot of them for not trying their hardest. I know, it's different. Wait, how is that different?


Because the best swimmers/track athletes don't give a fark about who they're going to face in the semifinals and finals, because the best swimmers are going to advance or win a medal regardless of the competition (or they'll be beat because they just weren't good enough).

Disregarding the fact that they have seconds, or a couple minutes, and any mistakes will cost them relatively significant amounts of time. At a longer distance, one literally cannot always perform at their best. "Individual" sports that are battles against a common obstacle instead of one-on-one competition just don't allow for a person to have a PR every single time they compete.

And it's also different than a team "resting" their players for future competition (as happened in soccer this year). Allowing substitute players to participate is fine as long as the players are told to provide their greatest effort, in my opinion, noting that these are still qualified Olympians; when you attempt to THROW games or matches, that's an entirely different discussion. Unlike a smaller participation sport, where you literally do not have substitutes, or if you do have substitutes the other person becomes the entrant in the event you get to go home (no medal),, a team sport shouldn't punish a coach, team, or nation for allowing "everyone" to participate, even if they may not field their best team. Granted... the rules MAY punish a team that rests their stars, I just don't think it should be comparable.
 
2012-08-01 09:13:52 PM
The next big things in doping will be found in the nations of China, the United States, and Spain.
 
2012-08-01 09:30:44 PM
Question:

Isn't about impossible to piss-test Chinese athletes?

Seems like the Coke would fark up the results.
 
2012-08-01 09:48:59 PM
Swim Bladders can be placed discreetly in swimsuits. Customized for an individual. Even small ones can provide a minor buoyancy effect so swimmers don't have to work so hard while swimming.

/Doping isn't the ONLY cheating method
//It IS China we are talking about.. maybe had one surgically implanted
/Or threatened her with the removal of a kidney if she failed
 
2012-08-01 09:52:51 PM
This is how Canada win metals by doping.

www.bigbrothersvancouver.com

/doing it right
 
2012-08-01 10:07:33 PM

diaphoresis: Swim Bladders can be placed discreetly in swimsuits. Customized for an individual. Even small ones can provide a minor buoyancy effect so swimmers don't have to work so hard while swimming.

/Doping isn't the ONLY cheating method
//It IS China we are talking about.. maybe had one surgically implanted
/Or threatened her with the removal of a kidney if she failed


Or... or.... now get this... they removed a kidney and REPLACED IT WITH A SWIM BLADDER!!

Wooooaaaaah.

That's heavy man.
 
2012-08-01 10:08:40 PM

Magorn: bdub77: The suspicious thing to me is all of the negative splitting going on with the Chinese swimmers. They are going out there and then the last 50m they are closing with superhuman speeds when they should be oxygen deprived. There are alot of examples of this, not just Ye Shiwen - look at the girl who just won the 200 fly, Jiao. Compare it with the US swimmers. Soni's WR swim was progressively slower times. The Chinese girl's near WR time in the 200 fly had a final split of 31.31 - A good second faster than anyone else, at a time when your body needs oxygen the most. Now it's possible they are so well conditioned to do negative splits that this is the result - but it's very suspicious to me. At the elite level, this typically means you have more oxygen in your system at the end because you're doing something. The fly is an incredibly tough oxygen eater. And that 200fly girl had the fastest split time in the non techsuit era - the fastest non 50m split time of ANYONE in the whole event (aside from the first 50m split which includes time off the blocks). And at the end of the race? I swam in high school, the fly is an awful tough swim.

I'm not going to say any of these girls cheated and I'm not going to say the US doesn't take PEDs also. But it is very suspicious and I would not be surprised at all to discover doping was occuring. One of the 400 IMers was caught with EPO before the Olympics - EPO is a type of drug that I guarantee you gives you more in the tank at the end of endurance events, which are the types of events they are winning. The Chinese have a history of it (just as the US does, we should admit, although everyone in track and field dopes, trust me).

Also has the Olympic ever figured out how to test for Tour de France style red blood cell packing where you take your own blood out, centrifuge it to pack the red blood cells more densely and then re-inject into the body right before a race? Since its your own blood, detecting that would seem nigh impossible?


They detect tiny pieces of plastic from the bag the blood was stored in. But that's about the only way unless the athlete drops dead of a blood clot in a bad place.

Even doping with your own blood isn't entirely safe.
 
2012-08-01 10:27:21 PM

Dudereno: They detect tiny pieces of plastic from the bag the blood was stored in. But that's about the only way unless the athlete drops dead of a blood clot in a bad place.



So....glass is the key?
 
2012-08-01 10:44:01 PM

swaxhog: This is how Canada win metals by doping.

[www.bigbrothersvancouver.com image 335x281]

/doing it right


Ben Johnson.
 
2012-08-01 11:02:32 PM
Ok, serious (and naive) question:

Has a woman ever beaten a man in an endurance and/or strength sport?
 
2012-08-01 11:04:20 PM

Angry Buddha: Sherman Potter: What hard work and training might look like.

WTF am I looking at?


Whatever it is, you better quit fapping to it.
 
2012-08-01 11:18:39 PM

legion_of_doo: swaxhog: This is how Canada win metals by doping.

[www.bigbrothersvancouver.com image 335x281]

/doing it right

Ben Johnson.


The world's fastest janitor?
 
2012-08-01 11:24:57 PM
FTA: John Leonard, executive director of the World Swimming Coaches Association.

"The one thing I will say is that history in our sport will tell you that every time we see something, and I will put quotation marks around this, 'unbelievable', history shows us that it turns out later on there was doping involved."

He cited the example of Irish swimmer Michelle Smith, who won gold in the same event as Ye at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics but was banned from swimming for four years in 1998 for tampering with a drug test.

Ye, nicknamed the "young general" at home, has brushed aside doping suspicions.

"My results come from hard work and training and I would never use any banned drugs," she told reporters in London. "The Chinese people have clean hands."

CHEQUERED PAST

The issue of doping in sport, and China's own patchy track record, are part of the problem.

China had a spate of cases in the 1990s, most embarrassingly in 1998 when a female swimmer and coach were disqualified from the Perth world championships after being caught with 13 vials of muscle-building human growth hormone at Sydney airport.


Ye's urine part B samples will be stored for 8 years. Time will tell. I hope she is clean, because if she is found to have cheated she will probably be cast off never to be seen again.
 
2012-08-01 11:30:31 PM
Just got to this part:
Ye, who turned 16 in March, was thrust into the spotlight as China's leading female swimmer just before the July 27-August 12 Games after world champion Li Zhesi tested positive in June and was banned from competing in London.

China is caught cheating a lot.
 
2012-08-01 11:40:54 PM

tlchwi02: "Dihydrotestosterone, anabolic steroids, erythropoietin and human growth hormones. All banned substances. All used by various members of the Chinese national swim team in the last 15 years.

Over 40 Chinese swimmers since 1990 have failed drug tests. That's triple the amount of any other swimming country during the same period of time."

So yes, give her a fair trial. But people acting like the only reason to be suspicious of this is jealousy or motivated by any anti-china sentiment need to consider that in the past 20 years, china are the biggest cheaters in olympic swimming by great leaps and bounds. So it sucks for her, but China made their bed by allowing cheating to go on for so long, and now they have to sleep in it


China still holds this stupid assumption that winning at these games asserts national dominance, I love for our people to win but even if they dont we still have better missiles and aircraft, so fark china.

RexTalionis: Magorn: Perhaps, but considering this girl has shaved 5 seconds off her personal best in 1 YEAR

Is it really so unbelievable that a girl can shave 5 seconds off their best in 1 year? I mean, last year, she was 15. I don't know if you remember when you were that age, but I gained a lot of inches in height between 15 and 16 as well as a lot more muscle.


For a woman it is, they go through puberty earlier than men and are pretty much done developing by 15.
 
2012-08-01 11:43:01 PM

bmr68: Just got to this part:
Ye, who turned 16 in March, was thrust into the spotlight as China's leading female swimmer just before the July 27-August 12 Games after world champion Li Zhesi tested positive in June and was banned from competing in London.

China is caught cheating a lot.


Thats most of why everyone is biatching since you dont gain that much progress in a year, I bet it comes out shes doping before the end of the year.
 
2012-08-01 11:46:59 PM
Typical Fark leftists defending China. Why am I not surprised? They would surely defend Eastern Germany in the 70s.
 
2012-08-02 01:07:06 AM

Second Try: Typical Fark leftists defending China. Why am I not surprised? They would surely defend Eastern Germany in the 70s.


Leftists? The '70s? Didn't we have a president sucking up to the Chinese back then? What was his name? Mixon? Hixon? It's all so long ago...
 
2012-08-02 01:07:09 AM
This is what happens when you have ludicrous anti-doping regulations in a sphere entirely permeated by doping. Most of the athletes winning medals at the Olympics are doping. How many Olympians have been busted for doping and been stripped of medals? And what about the ones who were busted based on other evidence rather than positive blood tests? But the guy who finishes .02 seconds behind the doper isn't doping right? *wink wink nudge nudge*

Let them dope, make them reveal what they take, when and how, and let the races be transparent. If a doper runs a WR it's still a freakin WR! Plus it will remove this nonsense with doping accusations where everyone pussyfoots around the obvious and athletes have to lie.

/Ye Shiwen is doping, get over it China. Her blood tests prove nothing at all.
//But I ain't mad at'cha, it was a great swim. Just maybe don't give the girl so much of the juice or she'll end up like the East German women and turn into a man.
 
2012-08-02 01:11:31 AM

swaxhog: This is how Canada win metals by doping.

[www.bigbrothersvancouver.com image 335x281]

/doing it right


Wrong time of year for Canada. They win Gold at the WINTER Olympics... WINTER.
 
2012-08-02 01:12:37 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Second Try: Typical Fark leftists defending China. Why am I not surprised? They would surely defend Eastern Germany in the 70s.

Leftists? The '70s? Didn't we have a president sucking up to the Chinese back then? What was his name? Mixon? Hixon? It's all so long ago...


You sound OLD.
 
2012-08-02 01:18:31 AM

Pockafrusta: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Second Try: Typical Fark leftists defending China. Why am I not surprised? They would surely defend Eastern Germany in the 70s.

Leftists? The '70s? Didn't we have a president sucking up to the Chinese back then? What was his name? Mixon? Hixon? It's all so long ago...

You sound OLD.


I know, don't I? I can remember when the rocks were still soft. :)
 
2012-08-02 02:02:39 AM

spiderpaz: I think that's the most significant point. In the case of the US, the USASA goes out of its way to hold US athletes to an even higher standard


i2.kym-cdn.com

Wait till the athletics sprints starts on NBC and someone refers to Flo-Jo's records. See whether they're held in
i) amazement and reverence
ii) disbelief and contempt
and then we'll see exactly whether US athletes are held to higher standards than Chinese.
 
2012-08-02 02:32:25 AM
Sympathizes.....

static.guim.co.uk
 
2012-08-02 04:03:35 AM

HotWingConspiracy: If she was American, NBC would have aired a fawning hour long documentary on what she ate for breakfast already and everyone would be trumpeting our swimming program's dominance.


If she was American, then she wouldn't be a member of a national swimming team that has been caught cheating more than the rest of the world combined.
 
2012-08-02 04:33:54 AM

JohnBigBootay: Look, if she pops a positive, we can skin her and eat her later. But saying she cheated because she's Chinese and other Chinese people cheat is horseshiat.


THIS. Let the anti-doping experts do their job. If she's guilty, DQ her. Until then, show some respect.

Admittedly I was sucked in to believing she likely doped when I first read 'She was faster than Lochte' (she's wasn't) and 'You can't improve by five seconds in one year' (a half dozen world record holders have done it in the last decade alone).
 
2012-08-02 04:38:59 AM

BrotherMalcolm: Because the cheaters are never one step ahead of the testers? And the testing orgs and/ or judges are never able to be bribed by the richest countries in the world?


Are you suggesting we impose punishment any time someone achieves something great, whether or not we can prove they achieved legitimately?
 
2012-08-02 04:43:43 AM

tlchwi02: the only reason she even was in that race was because the original swimmer got busted for doping.


Which actually helps Ye's case if testing reveals nothing, tbh. If her teammate was caught doping, officials will know exactly what to zero in on during testing.
 
2012-08-02 04:53:10 AM

Second Try: Typical Fark leftists defending China. Why am I not surprised? They would surely defend Eastern Germany in the 70s.


Because "Innocent until proven guilty" is so un-American.
 
2012-08-02 07:52:46 AM
This is no different from what China's done with their currency for the past 10 years.
 
2012-08-02 08:05:59 AM

bmr68: Just got to this part:
Ye, who turned 16 in March, was thrust into the spotlight as China's leading female swimmer just before the July 27-August 12 Games after world champion Li Zhesi tested positive in June and was banned from competing in London.

China is caught cheating a lot.


Yeah, in my mind, the suspicions are just as much about China in general as they are about this athlete in particular. They only have themselves to blame.
 
2012-08-02 08:06:38 AM

Pockafrusta: Pockafrusta: swaxhog: This is how Canada win metals by doping.

[www.bigbrothersvancouver.com image 335x281]

/doing it right

Wrong time of year for Canada. They win Gold at the WINTER Olympics... WINTER.

K, point was he failed his after medal drug test because of weed.

 
2012-08-02 08:23:06 AM
I am sure she is just on cell-tech
 
2012-08-02 01:04:42 PM

Brontes: Ok, serious (and naive) question:

Has a woman ever beaten a man in an endurance and/or strength sport?


She may have been faster than Lochte during a portion of her race but it wasn't sustained during the entire swim. Ultimately, her finishing time was 23 seconds behind Lochte's.

/repeat
 
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