If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Fox 19 Cincinnati)   Kid draws on rocks with chalk, mom gets charged with 'vandalism' and receives 50 hours of community service   (fox19.com) divider line 130
    More: Fail, Fulton County  
•       •       •

11208 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2012 at 3:51 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



130 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-08-01 10:49:03 AM

MycroftHolmes: Yet these are all necessary in an orderly society.


I agree with you. I think where we differ is in the amount necessary. I would accept a reduction in benefits for a similar reduction in regulation, but that is increasingly less possible in today's world. I fear that at the end of the spiral you describe is a situation where all of us share in the burdens of an overly-authoritarian society with few benefits. And there are fewer ways to opt out than even a century ago, and those loopholes are being closed all the time. I certainly don't expect that anyone should receive benefits without accompanying responsibilities, but neither should the opposite occur. There's historically been a societal cycle between the extremes of lawlessness and tyranny, and I don't like where I perceive our society to be in that cycle. That's just my opinion.
 
Ant
2012-08-01 10:51:26 AM

KatjaMouse: We have breezeways in our apartment buildings in lieu of being in a high rise with hallways. Our neighbor across from us let her two toddlers hang out just outside of their door and draw all over on the concrete flooring with chalk for 3 straight days until I guess a maintenance worker came across them in the act because they just stopped. That was back in April. We still have gobs of multicolored shapes and crudely written messages that make no sense in our breezeway that haven't gone away.


Oh no! Not multicolored shapes on concrete! That's the worst thing ever!!!
 
2012-08-01 11:02:25 AM

untaken_name: MycroftHolmes: Yet these are all necessary in an orderly society.

I agree with you. I think where we differ is in the amount necessary. I would accept a reduction in benefits for a similar reduction in regulation, but that is increasingly less possible in today's world. I fear that at the end of the spiral you describe is a situation where all of us share in the burdens of an overly-authoritarian society with few benefits. And there are fewer ways to opt out than even a century ago, and those loopholes are being closed all the time. I certainly don't expect that anyone should receive benefits without accompanying responsibilities, but neither should the opposite occur. There's historically been a societal cycle between the extremes of lawlessness and tyranny, and I don't like where I perceive our society to be in that cycle. That's just my opinion.


While you may be ok with less authority and less govenrmental support (as am I), it does not seem that this is the consensus. Maybe more than ever, we see, through politics, lawsuits, and public sentiment, a growing sentiment that we should be taken care of and not be responsible for our actions or outcomes. This cannot happen without a corresponding increase in authority and control.
 
2012-08-01 11:04:33 AM

OnlyM3: cretinbob

This is what happens when Republicans run every thing


Riiight. Republicans are the police state party

Police Unions to Endorse Obama/Biden
Today, the Obama-Biden campaign is holding a conference call with Senator Joe Biden to proudly announce the endorsement of the National Association of Police Organizations (NAPO).

...NAPO represents more than 2,000 police unions and associations, 238,000 sworn law enforcement officers, 11,000 retired officers...

and

Obama Beats McCain in Va....

So derpy OP, apparently this is what happens when democrats are the majority.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your whargarrrrble.



Please view: http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/the-national-defense-authorizat i on-act-opens-the-door-to-a-police-state/

McCain was one of the foremost supporters of the NDAA, which authorizes permanent detention without due process even for US citizens (and by military personnel).

Neither the stupid Republicans or the stupid Democrats care about our civil liberties. All this ridiculous bickering is really only serving to divide our citizenry when it should be uniting to stand up against these bastards.

Besides, we all know the real enemy here is homoseckshuls and Musslums. They ruinin' our coontreh! (It certainly isn't the people in charge who are doing it.)
 
2012-08-01 11:06:46 AM
 
2012-08-01 11:11:18 AM

Ant: Oh no! Not multicolored shapes on concrete! That's the worst thing ever!!!


It's cute and whimsical for, like, a week. Then it gets dingy and you just want a clean looking space again.
 
2012-08-01 11:23:32 AM

Ant: Gyrfalcon: Unfortunately, we as a society have gotten to where "Yes, sir," and "no ma'am" are just never to be said,

I can't and won't say "yes sir" or "yes ma'am" to anybody, except in jest. I don't think I could do it even to save my job if my boss demanded such treatment.


I got used to it in the military and while working retail, called a customer sir once. He got very offended, and it was weird.
 
2012-08-01 11:24:48 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Except when a cop gets his little feelings hurt, people get tazed, shot, and/or go to jail. It's not the same as being rude to a waiter.


Unless you have a dirty fork
 
2012-08-01 11:28:08 AM

MycroftHolmes: it does not seem that this is the consensus.


...of the people in power. You said you knew many people who chafed at authority - don't they count?

MycroftHolmes: Maybe more than ever, we see, through politics, lawsuits, and public sentiment, a growing sentiment that we should be taken care of and not be responsible for our actions or outcomes. This cannot happen without a corresponding increase in authority and control.


It's not possible for everyone to be taken care of. Also, the imperative to submit to authority is itself promoted from early childhood by everyone from public school teachers to ministers to parents who learned it in kindergarten themselves. It's a complex issue, for sure, and probably beyond the scope of an internet discussion, but please know that not everyone who objects to the hall monitor mentality does so from complete ignorance.
 
2012-08-01 11:29:56 AM

Ant: Oh no! Not multicolored shapes on concrete! That's the worst thing ever!!!


I don't think anyone was saying that it was the worst thing ever, but are you seriously arguing that it is ok to deface public or shared areas? That no one has a right to care what their shared living areas look like? If I went to where you lived and spray painted everything neon pink and yellow, you really feel that you shouldn't have a right to ask for that to be removed?
 
2012-08-01 11:37:01 AM

untaken_name: ...of the people in power. You said you knew many people who chafed at authority - don't they count?


Here is the thing, the people chafing at authority are also often the ones who want most to be taken care of. So they keep voting for bigger and bigger government. After 9\11, there was a huge cry of 'How could you let that happen?', much less of a cry of 'No free country will ever be able to stop terrorism'. As a result, the people who want to take care of themselves are getting outvoted. While they do count, they do not count enough. I don't want to devolve too much into a partisan argument, but just look at current trends in the health care. People are concurrently arguing that the government should provide healthcare while arguing that they should restrict unhealthy actions like smoking.

untaken_name: It's not possible for everyone to be taken care of. Also, the imperative to submit to authority is itself promoted from early childhood by everyone from public school teachers to ministers to parents who learned it in kindergarten themselves. It's a complex issue, for sure, and probably beyond the scope of an internet discussion, but please know that not everyone who objects to the hall monitor mentality does so from complete ignorance.


I know that. I know some people who are aware enough and honest with themselves enough to say that they want smaller government with less authority, knowing full well what that means (more power to big business, less social safety net, etc.). But people with matured, thought out viewpoints like that are the minority. Most cop\authority haters are having a knee jerk reaction, either due to a bad experience, or to the idea that they aren't special snowflakes and they have to toe the line like everyone else.
 
2012-08-01 11:42:58 AM

MycroftHolmes: Ant: Oh no! Not multicolored shapes on concrete! That's the worst thing ever!!!

I don't think anyone was saying that it was the worst thing ever, but are you seriously arguing that it is ok to deface public or shared areas? That no one has a right to care what their shared living areas look like? If I went to where you lived and spray painted everything neon pink and yellow, you really feel that you shouldn't have a right to ask for that to be removed?


Again, "spray paint" != "chalk". Chalk:ephermeral::spray paint:persistent. That's the whole benefit of chalk - it really does just wash away with anything from rain to a garden hose. It's typically ecologically safe, and causes no harm to the underlying surface.

That being said, we need to split out the "damaging property through malicious application of persistent substance" and "damaging community through malicious depiction of disagreeable visuals" portions of "vandalism." If the little girl was using spray paint, then it doesn't matter what she was drawing, because she was damaging public property. If the little girl was using chalk, and she was drawing cartoon sexual organs, scrawling "fark you" everywhere, or otherwise providing "disagreeable visuals," then she was being a nuisance.

If the little girl was using chalk, and wasn't rendering scatalogical references, profanities, or other such "disagreeable visuals," then no authoritarian intervention need apply. "Vandalism" catches otherwise innocuous activities. What's worse, these two concepts won't be separated because it allows law enforcement the ability to arrest those who speak out against authority - protestors who use chalk to draw political messages on public property are arrested for "vandalism," even if they've done nothing else.
 
2012-08-01 11:58:16 AM

FormlessOne: Again, "spray paint" != "chalk". Chalk:ephermeral::spray paint:persistent. That's the whole benefit of chalk - it really does just wash away with anything from rain to a garden hose. It's typically ecologically safe, and causes no harm to the underlying surface.


In the comment I was responding to, Ant was mocking an individual who was unhappy that chalk had persisted for multiple weeks. In this case, it was no more ephemeral than spray paint, and Ant's stance was that one should not be bothered my multicolored shapes. In this context, my analogy is fair.
 
2012-08-01 12:07:07 PM

FormlessOne: If the little girl was using chalk, and wasn't rendering scatalogical references, profanities, or other such "disagreeable visuals," then no authoritarian intervention need apply. "Vandalism" catches otherwise innocuous activities. What's worse, these two concepts won't be separated because it allows law enforcement the ability to arrest those who speak out against authority - protestors who use chalk to draw political messages on public property are arrested for "vandalism," even if they've done nothing else.


If this is the place:

Link

It is pretty clear that any chalk writing would be considered considered visually disagreeable.

I am also a little confused by your comment, as it sounds on one hand like you are saying that the officer should have used a judgement call to determine that what the child was doing was not vandalism, then you turn around and saying that cops should not use judgement, as they could then use that to apply laws only to messages that they disagree with.

It sounds to me like this cop did everything right. Ask the person to please stop defacing rocks at a nature conservancy, then escalate to the use of an applicable law when that request was met with a lack of compliance.
 
2012-08-01 12:17:27 PM

Gyrfalcon:

They had a saying in the Gulag, which is appropriate here: "If they're not f*cking you, don't like down and ask for it."

Yes, cops are assholes; but that doesn't mean you need to get into a pissing match with one to see who will win. Protip: It will ALWAYS be the one with the gun, badge, and six other cops on speeddial.


Fascinating, someone seriously makes a parallel between how a Free Citizen of the what many call "The Best Country in the World" should react to a public servant and the the way a prisoner in a gulag of one of the most oppressive and murderous governments in the world would react: and no one blinks!

absolutely fascinating.
 
2012-08-01 12:43:08 PM

MycroftHolmes: FormlessOne: If the little girl was using chalk, and wasn't rendering scatalogical references, profanities, or other such "disagreeable visuals," then no authoritarian intervention need apply. "Vandalism" catches otherwise innocuous activities. What's worse, these two concepts won't be separated because it allows law enforcement the ability to arrest those who speak out against authority - protestors who use chalk to draw political messages on public property are arrested for "vandalism," even if they've done nothing else.

If this is the place:

Link

It is pretty clear that any chalk writing would be considered considered visually disagreeable.

I am also a little confused by your comment, as it sounds on one hand like you are saying that the officer should have used a judgement call to determine that what the child was doing was not vandalism, then you turn around and saying that cops should not use judgement, as they could then use that to apply laws only to messages that they disagree with.

It sounds to me like this cop did everything right. Ask the person to please stop defacing rocks at a nature conservancy, then escalate to the use of an applicable law when that request was met with a lack of compliance.


You, sir, are an authoritarian. If it were up to people like you, there would be no line in the sand against tyranny. You would gladly hand over other people's rights, then be utterly shocked when they came for yours. While I tend to avoid taunting beasts myself, I'm proud to live in a country where you can tell a cop to go fark themselves and not end up beaten or jailed or murdered. Consider the real context. The public just got robbed of 13 trillion dollars by crooks on Wall St. and U.S. citizens are being murdered in drone strikes by executive fiat. And nobody's going to jail - except for maybe that loudmouthed chick who let her kid use sidewalk chalk at the park.

YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
 
2012-08-01 01:04:44 PM

untaken_name: AssAsInAssassin: untaken_name: As we deconstruct our religious heritage

That's not what "deconstruct" means.

Yeah, I meant to write "destroy" there. Not sure where "deconstruct" came from, as we're not examining it in detail, we're jettisoning it. Thank you for pointing that out, I (obviously) didn't notice it on preview.


Thank you for not dissembling...
 
2012-08-01 01:07:45 PM

sendtodave: doglover: All you have to do is be really nice to officers, respectful, and cop to the little stuff you know you done wrong and most of the time you'll get leniency.

[ts1.mm.bing.net image 230x154]

Yes sir, I now realize that I should have promptly picked up that can. I'm sorry for troubling you, officer.


I never put that can in the garbage. I always hit him in the face then run away.
 
2012-08-01 01:30:18 PM

Mr. Cat Poop: PacManDreaming: doglover: All you have to do is be really nice to officers...

Yep, if you just keep your mouth shut and be respectful, you'll be amazed at what you can get away with. Act like a prick to a cop and they'll be more than happy to show you who can be a bigger prick.

We had a house party when I was legal to drink but many of my friends weren't. Some of my friends were smoking weed too. Luckily I was neither drunk nor stoned when the cops showed up. All the smokers tossed their bowls in a pile outside by a bush. We were super polite to the cops the whole time. They didn't check any id's and when they found the stash of pipes they just told us to get rid of them and break the party up. One of my friends picked them up and took them away. If I had been a dick I could easily have been arrested for drug possession and supplying alcohol to minors.


You sound white.
 
2012-08-01 04:39:25 PM

jayhawk88: So it's your opinion that if a cop asks a person to stop doing something, and that person responds by insulting or cursing at him, the cop should just tip his hat and say "Have a nice day"?

I get that some cops are assholes, but that doesn't mean that ALL cops are assholes, or that this particular cop acted in an assholish manner.


No, I was responding to doglover's advice that you must show respect to the police when faced with petty harassment.
 
2012-08-01 04:46:12 PM

MycroftHolmes: So, you understand that the purpose of the police is to enforce laws and exert some level of control. If, through your actions, you show that you are willing to comply with the rules, usually the cops will just move on. if, through your actions, you show a disrespect for authority and a wanton disregard for the rules, the cops have no options but to escalate to enforce the rules. The whole system does not work if there is no enforcement.

Most people chafe at the idea that society has some level of control over them, and that they have to comply. It amazes me how so many people want the benefits and protection of society, but think that they are so special that no one should be the boss of them. It honestly befuddles me how normally bright people can't seem to get that.


Again, petty harassment from the police should not be tolerated without response. I'm not saying that this lady didn't deserve the punishment she received. I was responding specifically to doglover's advice "cop to the little stuff". Because frankly, there's always little stuff - I have several police officers and troopers in my family, and I'm friends with a lot of law enforcement. Every single one of them can find a reason to stop and question any person at any time. The good ones don't do it unless they smell something bad. But harassment can and does happen and in those cases, citizens should not be cowed by the officers.
 
2012-08-01 05:15:30 PM

PacManDreaming: doglover: All you have to do is be really nice to officers...

Yep, if you just keep your mouth shut and be respectful, you'll be amazed at what you can get away with. Act like a prick to a cop and they'll be more than happy to show you who can be a bigger prick.


The best thing that helps me deal with cops it to not think of them as authority figures, it makes me feel nervous which in turn would make them feel like I'm hiding something. I talk to them like they are a normal stranger. Humor can also help an otherwise tense situation given the proper opportunity. Got pulled over for having a headlight out, when the 2 cops talked to me they thought I was drunk because I was speaking slow and slurring my speech. (really my face was frozen from just cross country skiing for 2 1/2 hours, they didn't believe it) They had me get out and wanted to do a field sobriety test. One of the officers demonstrated how to do walk the line but he lost his balance right after he started showing me. "Are you sure you're not drunk?", I asked. They had a good laugh about it, my friends were dumbstruck that I'd even say something like that to an officer. I showed that I could walk the line and then they let me go without putting me through all of the other nonsense in the sobriety test.

/csb
 
2012-08-01 11:04:15 PM
Kid will be found beaten to death after mom's release.
 
2012-08-02 12:50:58 AM

AssAsInAssassin: untaken_name: AssAsInAssassin: untaken_name: As we deconstruct our religious heritage

That's not what "deconstruct" means.

Yeah, I meant to write "destroy" there. Not sure where "deconstruct" came from, as we're not examining it in detail, we're jettisoning it. Thank you for pointing that out, I (obviously) didn't notice it on preview.

Thank you for not dissembling...


I did commit the error, and while the usual mantra is 'deny, deny, deny', I think most people see through that. I can hardly expect anyone I'm engaged in discussion with to admit their mistakes if I attempt to whitewash my own.
 
2012-08-02 02:30:58 AM

untaken_name: AssAsInAssassin: untaken_name: AssAsInAssassin: untaken_name: As we deconstruct our religious heritage

That's not what "deconstruct" means.

Yeah, I meant to write "destroy" there. Not sure where "deconstruct" came from, as we're not examining it in detail, we're jettisoning it. Thank you for pointing that out, I (obviously) didn't notice it on preview.

Thank you for not dissembling...

I did commit the error, and while the usual mantra is 'deny, deny, deny', I think most people see through that. I can hardly expect anyone I'm engaged in discussion with to admit their mistakes if I attempt to whitewash my own.


Yes.This is also my approach to trolls. I've found that if I admit my mistakes, derpers have no idea how to respond.

In this case, however, I was just trying to make a joke about dissembling and dis-assembling. Thought it was clever.

/I think the word you originally wanted was "dismantling."
 
2012-08-02 03:05:20 AM

AssAsInAssassin: untaken_name: AssAsInAssassin: untaken_name: AssAsInAssassin: untaken_name: As we deconstruct our religious heritage

That's not what "deconstruct" means.

Yeah, I meant to write "destroy" there. Not sure where "deconstruct" came from, as we're not examining it in detail, we're jettisoning it. Thank you for pointing that out, I (obviously) didn't notice it on preview.

Thank you for not dissembling...

I did commit the error, and while the usual mantra is 'deny, deny, deny', I think most people see through that. I can hardly expect anyone I'm engaged in discussion with to admit their mistakes if I attempt to whitewash my own.

Yes.This is also my approach to trolls. I've found that if I admit my mistakes, derpers have no idea how to respond.

In this case, however, I was just trying to make a joke about dissembling and dis-assembling. Thought it was clever.

/I think the word you originally wanted was "dismantling."


Ah...I might have caught that if I heard it spoken, but I am pretty poor at picking those kinds of things up in text. It's clever, though, just more clever than I am. "Dismantling" fits much better than either my intended word or the one I actually typed, so I'm going to now pretend that I had intended to use that one and it was an autocorrect error. ;)
 
2012-08-02 12:00:43 PM
I couldn't live in a place where the cops or anybody is that anal retentive.
 
2012-08-02 01:44:58 PM

wenslauw: I couldn't live in a place where the cops or anybody is that anal retentive.


You are aware that the 'park' in question is a nature conservancy and botanical garden, right? This isn't just some kids playing hopscotch on the sidewalk.
 
2012-08-02 08:26:42 PM

MycroftHolmes: wenslauw: I couldn't live in a place where the cops or anybody is that anal retentive.

You are aware that the 'park' in question is a nature conservancy and botanical garden, right? This isn't just some kids playing hopscotch on the sidewalk.


Chalk comes from nature. Just saying.
 
2012-08-02 09:25:18 PM

MycroftHolmes: wenslauw: I couldn't live in a place where the cops or anybody is that anal retentive.

You are aware that the 'park' in question is a nature conservancy and botanical garden, right? This isn't just some kids playing hopscotch on the sidewalk.


And you are aware that a person who maintains that spray painting by vandals and chalk drawings by a child are the "same thing" is not a reasonable person, right?
 
Displayed 30 of 130 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report