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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   Florida's education commissioner resigns after realizing trying to reform the state's education platform was like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic   (tampabay.com) divider line 43
    More: Florida, deck chairs, Rick Scott  
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4624 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2012 at 1:17 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-01 01:18:19 AM
I take comfort in the though most of Florida will be underwater in a couple decades (or sooner!)
 
2012-08-01 01:20:23 AM
Before it sinks into the ocean, they will move to your neighborhood.
 
2012-08-01 01:22:34 AM
Pretty sure he saw which way the wind was blowing and figured he didn't want to be the scapegoat. Smart man.
 
2012-08-01 01:35:42 AM

Alunan: I take comfort in the though most of Florida will be underwater in a couple decades (or sooner!)


The sooner the better! Some of the people at "The Cape" are the reason space flight is so expensive.
Had to link, too big for fark...Link
 
2012-08-01 01:39:46 AM
As long as Florida keeps doing the FCAT test...they will have screwy education problems

They spend about 40 days per school year just prepping for the FCAT...and the kids still cannot read and write after they graduate

This Robinson guy obviously saw the torpedo heading for the Lusitania
 
2012-08-01 01:40:56 AM
how many more sinking ship metaphors can we cram into this thread?
 
2012-08-01 01:42:34 AM
So, he's passing the pail to someone else?
 
2012-08-01 01:43:39 AM
encrypted-tbn0.google.com
 
2012-08-01 01:45:52 AM
Robinson had pushed school choice options, including vouchers, and said he supported merit pay for teachers.

Ugh. I'm sure their school system is better off without him.
 
2012-08-01 01:47:21 AM

wedun: how many more sinking ship metaphors can we cram into this thread?


Well, it looks like he couldn't get the oars up to the natural level so he had to abandoned ship.
 
2012-08-01 01:52:00 AM
Rick Scott is a loser and anyone who works for him is a loser.
 
2012-08-01 01:53:59 AM

fusillade762: Robinson had pushed school choice options, including vouchers, and said he supported merit pay for teachers.

Ugh. I'm sure their school system is better off without him.


My family passed through there 40 years ago when I was in first grade.We came from Colorado and I was at their seventh grade reading level. Things haven't improved much since. How the hell do you fix that?
 
2012-08-01 01:54:42 AM

fusillade762: Robinson had pushed school choice options, including vouchers, and said he supported merit pay for teachers.

Ugh. I'm sure their school system is better off without him.


Exactly. There's no place for outdated concepts like "choice" or "merit" in today's public school system.
 
2012-08-01 01:56:09 AM
Florida's school system is a hulking abomination just waiting to be put out of its misery. Not only does it boast some of the worst teachers I've ever seen, but the horrible misappropriation of funds has left many a school without the most basic essentials.

It's a horrible cycle of failure, too---funding is based on results, and without the funding, the schools don't get the good results, leading to poorer funding, leading to poorer results...

But the worst thing by far is the attitude of educators. Smug, holier than thou administrators and teachers both unable and unwilling to level with students and try to understand their preferences and requirements for learning properly. To say nothing of the complete and utter lack of concern for the home life of many of the children, the employees of Florida really have failed in their duties.

Even though I live here, I wouldn't mind seeing the whole system burn down and be rebuilt. The corruption is so endemic that only a total purging will solve the underlying issues.

/trying to become a teacher
//hah
 
2012-08-01 02:05:32 AM

Ruiizu: Florida's school system is a hulking abomination just waiting to be put out of its misery. Not only does it boast some of the worst teachers I've ever seen, but the horrible misappropriation of funds has left many a school without the most basic essentials.

It's a horrible cycle of failure, too---funding is based on results, and without the funding, the schools don't get the good results, leading to poorer funding, leading to poorer results...

But the worst thing by far is the attitude of educators. Smug, holier than thou administrators and teachers both unable and unwilling to level with students and try to understand their preferences and requirements for learning properly. To say nothing of the complete and utter lack of concern for the home life of many of the children, the employees of Florida really have failed in their duties.

Even though I live here, I wouldn't mind seeing the whole system burn down and be rebuilt. The corruption is so endemic that only a total purging will solve the underlying issues.

/trying to become a teacher
//hah


I wish you luck, seriously. I haven't been there in 5 years but my best advice if you want to be a teacher is to run as far as you can get from the South East.
 
2012-08-01 02:14:24 AM

untaken_name: fusillade762: Robinson had pushed school choice options, including vouchers, and said he supported merit pay for teachers.

Ugh. I'm sure their school system is better off without him.

Exactly. There's no place for outdated concepts like "choice" or "merit" in today's public school system.


If you think merit pay makes sense, you must first believe that school administrators know enough about education to tell good teachers from bad teachers.
Likewise, to believe that vouchers are a good idea is to believe that private schools will happily take anyone with a voucher.
 
2012-08-01 02:20:17 AM
To "spend time with his family?" Haven't they come up with a better one than that yet?
 
2012-08-01 02:26:13 AM

untaken_name: fusillade762: Robinson had pushed school choice options, including vouchers, and said he supported merit pay for teachers.

Ugh. I'm sure their school system is better off without him.

Exactly. There's no place for outdated concepts like "choice" or "merit" in today's public school system.


Those are just code words for "privatizing the school system" and "farking over the teachers unions".
 
2012-08-01 02:32:54 AM

Bucky Katt: Rick Scott is a loser and anyone who works for him is a loser.


ding ding ding!!!
 
2012-08-01 02:33:01 AM

ArmednHammered: Ruiizu: Florida's school system is a hulking abomination just waiting to be put out of its misery. Not only does it boast some of the worst teachers I've ever seen, but the horrible misappropriation of funds has left many a school without the most basic essentials.

It's a horrible cycle of failure, too---funding is based on results, and without the funding, the schools don't get the good results, leading to poorer funding, leading to poorer results...

But the worst thing by far is the attitude of educators. Smug, holier than thou administrators and teachers both unable and unwilling to level with students and try to understand their preferences and requirements for learning properly. To say nothing of the complete and utter lack of concern for the home life of many of the children, the employees of Florida really have failed in their duties.

Even though I live here, I wouldn't mind seeing the whole system burn down and be rebuilt. The corruption is so endemic that only a total purging will solve the underlying issues.

/trying to become a teacher
//hah

I wish you luck, seriously. I haven't been there in 5 years but my best advice if you want to be a teacher is to run as far as you can get from the South East.


Actually the main reason I want to be a teacher is to try and save some of the kids from the horrors of our local public school system.
 
2012-08-01 02:35:29 AM

Mithiwithi: If you think merit pay makes sense, you must first believe that school administrators know enough about education to tell good teachers from bad teachers.
Likewise, to believe that vouchers are a good idea is to believe that private schools will happily take anyone with a voucher.



No, I must believe that the current way of doing things is the only possible way of doing things in order for what you say to be true. I refuse to believe that merit and choice are impossible to implement, full stop. I do, however, readily accept that they are impossible to implement within the current framework.
 
2012-08-01 02:37:04 AM

fusillade762: untaken_name: fusillade762: Robinson had pushed school choice options, including vouchers, and said he supported merit pay for teachers.

Ugh. I'm sure their school system is better off without him.

Exactly. There's no place for outdated concepts like "choice" or "merit" in today's public school system.

Those are just code words for "privatizing the school system" and "farking over the teachers unions".


Well, considering the current state of education, while privatizing the school system and farking over the teacher's unions may not help, it's hard to see how they could possibly make things worse.
 
2012-08-01 03:30:08 AM

Alunan: I take comfort in the though most of Florida will be underwater in a couple decades (or sooner!)


The pot versus kettle wars have already commenced I see.
 
2012-08-01 03:37:55 AM

untaken_name: fusillade762: untaken_name:

Well, considering the current state of education, while privatizing the school system and farking over the teacher's unions may not help, it's hard to see how they could possibly make things worse.


Disclosure: I'm a career government bureaucrat. Privitization is sometimes the right move. Two rules of thumb:
The more trouble you can get in for something going wrong, the riskier saving a few bucks can get. Building custodians are a low-risk replacement. Having the low-bidder use minimum-wage drivers on the street-sweepers, not so much.

The other rule is the municipality must watch any contractor maintaining infrastructure closely. More than one City lost more out of deferred maintenance on their sewage treatment plant then they gained in lower operating costs. Do you really think a privite business won't cut corners to pad profits.

So,imagine a private contractor running a school, no unions allowed. The buildings and grounds will be repaired faster and be more efficiently run. Since parents will be concerned where their snowflakes are kept, risk of deferred maintaince skimming is low. So that end of the thought experiment sounds good.

But trying to treat teachers like any other employee in a service industry is nuts. Test scores won't improve, because the strongest correlation to student success is their home life. A kid from a family that spanks him for goofing off at school will, on average, do significantly better than a kid with indifferent parental units. No matter who is running the school. So test scores won't change... And guess who the contractor will blame, and then micromanage, just like the current ones?

A mediocre teacher can't hurt the motivated kid much, but the motivated teacher is the last hope of the disadvantaged kids. Yes, there are some lazy or incompetent tenured teachers but by and large it attracts people who are invested in teaching. Weaken their ability to organize & resist meddling managers, and yes it will get worse.
 
2012-08-01 03:58:13 AM

Mithiwithi: Likewise, to believe that vouchers are a good idea is to believe that private schools will happily take anyone with a voucher.


It could also mean that people don't have to go to the nearest public school but have a choice to travel another 2 miles to go to a better school.
 
2012-08-01 04:00:49 AM

fanuvtoons: Disclosure: I'm a career government bureaucrat. Privitization is sometimes the right move. Two rules of thumb:


Okay, fair enough. Here are my two rules of thumb: There's nothing on Earth that government can't do half as well at twice the price, and Corporations may only be accountable to their shareholders, but at least they're accountable to SOMEONE.
 
2012-08-01 04:13:24 AM
I live in Tallahassee. My wife has a master's degree in music education. She currently works for unemployment. Thanks Rick Scott.
 
2012-08-01 04:37:06 AM

keithdcmoore: works for unemployment


farm6.staticflickr.com

Huh?
 
2012-08-01 05:24:20 AM

untaken_name: fanuvtoons: Disclosure: I'm a career government bureaucrat. Privitization is sometimes the right move. Two rules of thumb:

Okay, fair enough. Here are my two rules of thumb: There's nothing on Earth that government can't do half as well at twice the price, and Corporations may only be accountable to their shareholders, but at least they're accountable to SOMEONE.


u retaetrred
 
2012-08-01 05:28:02 AM

libranoelrose:

u retaetrred


Were you having a seizure while typing this post?

/That's a heavy burtation, man
 
2012-08-01 05:55:44 AM

untaken_name: fusillade762: untaken_name: fusillade762: Robinson had pushed school choice options, including vouchers, and said he supported merit pay for teachers.

Ugh. I'm sure their school system is better off without him.

Exactly. There's no place for outdated concepts like "choice" or "merit" in today's public school system.

Those are just code words for "privatizing the school system" and "farking over the teachers unions".

Well, considering the current state of education, while privatizing the school system and farking over the teacher's unions may not help, it's hard to see how they could possibly make things worse.


Not familiar with Florida's private and charter schools, huh?
 
2012-08-01 06:36:01 AM

ghare: Not familiar with Florida's private and charter schools, huh?


Specifically, no, but private schools in general perform better than public schools in general. What is specific to Florida private schools which counteracts the usual tendency?
 
2012-08-01 07:07:34 AM
As has been pointed out in this thread in a somewhat different way private schools ≠ public schools. The private schools in our area are thriving and growing. These private schools want nothing to do with a very large number of the students currently enrolled in the public schools, and would want nothing to do with them, even if they came knocking on the door, vouchers in hand, no strings attached*.

*Which is of course impossible; it is nowhere more true than with government funding that "Once you pay the Danegeld, you'll never be rid of the Dane." A private school that takes one nickel of public funding de facto becomes a public school.
 
2012-08-01 07:25:13 AM

Ruiizu: Florida's school system is a hulking abomination just waiting to be put out of its misery. Not only does it boast some of the worst teachers I've ever seen, but the horrible misappropriation of funds has left many a school without the most basic essentials.

It's a horrible cycle of failure, too---funding is based on results, and without the funding, the schools don't get the good results, leading to poorer funding, leading to poorer results...

But the worst thing by far is the attitude of educators. Smug, holier than thou administrators and teachers both unable and unwilling to level with students and try to understand their preferences and requirements for learning properly. To say nothing of the complete and utter lack of concern for the home life of many of the children, the employees of Florida really have failed in their duties.

Even though I live here, I wouldn't mind seeing the whole system burn down and be rebuilt. The corruption is so endemic that only a total purging will solve the underlying issues.

/trying to become a teacher
//hah


I'm coming from another profession into teaching here in Florida, and good Christ, you're absolutely right about some of these teachers. It's unbelievable the lack of knowledge that some of these folks possess, or the inability to manage a classroom. I believe at some point there will be some kind of equal protection lawsuit that the state will lose, and the Federal Government will have to take over the DoE and wipe the slate clean after years of Republican mismanagement.
 
2012-08-01 07:50:50 AM
Not many of Scott's appointees have lasted for long. Tea Party Totalitarianism ain't for everybody.

/thank God
 
2012-08-01 10:19:41 AM
As a Florida resident for 20 years.... but ed u caded up Narth.... since the implementation of Jeb Bush's educational reform, we went from the bottom (49th) only higher than Mississippi in 2000, to the top 10 within 8 years. Sorry about that. But given it's Florida it goes to show that good education does not translate into common sense!

crankymommyent.files.wordpress.com

COMMIN AT YA!
 
2012-08-01 12:01:41 PM
Kinda surprised to hear Florida has an education commissioner.

Not really, but it's an easy joke.
 
2012-08-01 02:36:51 PM

rico567: As has been pointed out in this thread in a somewhat different way private schools ≠ public schools. The private schools in our area are thriving and growing. These private schools want nothing to do with a very large number of the students currently enrolled in the public schools, and would want nothing to do with them, even if they came knocking on the door, vouchers in hand, no strings attached*.


And you stress well the reason private schools do better than public schools. BETTER STUDENTS. Also, some private schools have conditions for staying at the school. You act a fool, you leave the school. Your parents aren't volunteering to help in the classroom, you leave the school. If public schools could remove the "bad" students, we would see a huge turn-around in public schools. Even if you hold a lottery, the fact that parents care enough to put their child in the lottery, it still shows a parent who cares about their child's education compared to the child who will be attending public school because the parents didn't care to even try their luck in the lottery.

Now if private schools are forced to take any Dick, Jane and Harry and keep them, then we will start to see the decline of private schools.
 
2012-08-01 03:13:39 PM

DerAppie: It could also mean that people don't have to go to the nearest public school but have a choice to travel another 2 miles to go to a better school.


But then said better school cannot and will not take them because the school is already being penalized for going over legally mandated class size limits.
 
2012-08-01 03:48:52 PM

extroverted_suicide: DerAppie: It could also mean that people don't have to go to the nearest public school but have a choice to travel another 2 miles to go to a better school.

But then said better school cannot and will not take them because the school is already being penalized for going over legally mandated class size limits.


Yet somehow free school choice systems seems to work for other countries.
 
2012-08-01 08:24:11 PM

Ruiizu: ArmednHammered: Ruiizu: Florida's school system is a hulking abomination just waiting to be put out of its misery. Not only does it boast some of the worst teachers I've ever seen, but the horrible misappropriation of funds has left many a school without the most basic essentials.

It's a horrible cycle of failure, too---funding is based on results, and without the funding, the schools don't get the good results, leading to poorer funding, leading to poorer results...

But the worst thing by far is the attitude of educators. Smug, holier than thou administrators and teachers both unable and unwilling to level with students and try to understand their preferences and requirements for learning properly. To say nothing of the complete and utter lack of concern for the home life of many of the children, the employees of Florida really have failed in their duties.

Even though I live here, I wouldn't mind seeing the whole system burn down and be rebuilt. The corruption is so endemic that only a total purging will solve the underlying issues.

/trying to become a teacher
//hah

I wish you luck, seriously. I haven't been there in 5 years but my best advice if you want to be a teacher is to run as far as you can get from the South East.

Actually the main reason I want to be a teacher is to try and save some of the kids from the horrors of our local public school system.


Speaking as a Florida high school teacher, working at a Title I school in a highly impoverished area, let me say: LOLOLOLOLOLOL. You'll learn quickly that by and large, parents don't give two shiats about their kids' education. They don't even know our names. The students you'll get who want to learn, will. Some you will prod and it'll take - others it won't. If you're thinking more money and better facilities will improve - wrong. It's just more nice shiat that the district hopes will make the kids more involved (basically, a new form of shiny-object syndrome).


People in the 30s didn't have nice pretty things to make them read. They decided they wanted to learn how, and they learned. Now, people like you want to "level with" the students, which invariably lowers the teacher, rather than raise the student. News flash: the world doesn't give a pink rat's ass about your preference. You either sink or swim. Coddling kids until they're comfortable and have some misguided sense of self-esteem is asinine. Farking liberals are the ones who wrecked public education to begin with.

Don't expect to save the world from the classroom. That mentality is the cause for 50% of teachers quitting within the first five years. You'll have some victories, and you'll have some defeats. You'll have some victories which turn into defeats, like the kid I helped get a scholarship who was murdered a few days ago.
 
2012-08-01 08:51:49 PM

dead2self: Ruiizu: ArmednHammered: Ruiizu: Florida's school system is a hulking abomination just waiting to be put out of its misery. Not only does it boast some of the worst teachers I've ever seen, but the horrible misappropriation of funds has left many a school without the most basic essentials.

It's a horrible cycle of failure, too---funding is based on results, and without the funding, the schools don't get the good results, leading to poorer funding, leading to poorer results...

But the worst thing by far is the attitude of educators. Smug, holier than thou administrators and teachers both unable and unwilling to level with students and try to understand their preferences and requirements for learning properly. To say nothing of the complete and utter lack of concern for the home life of many of the children, the employees of Florida really have failed in their duties.

Even though I live here, I wouldn't mind seeing the whole system burn down and be rebuilt. The corruption is so endemic that only a total purging will solve the underlying issues.

/trying to become a teacher
//hah

I wish you luck, seriously. I haven't been there in 5 years but my best advice if you want to be a teacher is to run as far as you can get from the South East.

Actually the main reason I want to be a teacher is to try and save some of the kids from the horrors of our local public school system.

Speaking as a Florida high school teacher, working at a Title I school in a highly impoverished area, let me say: LOLOLOLOLOLOL. You'll learn quickly that by and large, parents don't give two shiats about their kids' education. They don't even know our names. The students you'll get who want to learn, will. Some you will prod and it'll take - others it won't. If you're thinking more money and better facilities will improve - wrong. It's just more nice shiat that the district hopes will make the kids more involved (basically, a new form of shiny-object syndrome).


People in the 30s didn't have ni ...


I think you've taken things way out of context. I'm merely suggesting that a lot of school money is misappropriated, not that money leads to better education. Home is where education gets its roots, whether strong or weak---from birth if the kids can't trust authority figures or aren't interested, then their chances of actually being interested are very low. What I'm suggesting is approaching a situation by not getting in the way of learning. You're correct in saying that some students have no interest in it, but more often it is the flawed system itself that gets in the way of learning and interest in learning.

Teachers are certainly authority figures, but that undeserved self-righteousness isn't something I'm willing to support. When it comes down to it, yes, the teacher is the boss, but there are responsibilities to go with that. It means always setting a good example and being honest and consistent. The problem I noticed with most teachers was their unwillingness to care.

In any case, glorifying the past isn't going to make the future a better place. The world is different than it used to be, and that means figuring out new ways to handle new problems. That doesn't mean we shouldn't pay heed to older examples, but we should be careful about the nostalgia effect.

Just try and scale back that hostility a little---even on fark, we can still have relevant conversations about the world around us without being all "u mad" and "yeah u mad" about things.

/you can't change the parents, but you can change you
 
2012-08-02 12:21:11 PM
Ruiizu - "even on fark, we can still have relevant conversations about the world around us" - What kind of TROLL talk is that?
Probably better off on the Titanic. At least it would be over relatively quickly.
 
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