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(Huffington Post)   Harry Reid: "I'm not saying Mitt Romney paid no taxes for ten years... but Mitt Romney paid no taxes for ten years"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 383
    More: Interesting, Mitt Romney, Harry Reid, Kevin Madden, Senator Reid, Tammy Baldwin, Employee Free Choice Act, dog catchers, Fe C  
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5829 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Jul 2012 at 11:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-31 04:26:38 PM
whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.
 
2012-07-31 04:28:16 PM

FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.


Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?
 
2012-07-31 04:31:08 PM
Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

If this is true, Romney is beyond toast when he finally does release his Tax Returns. Well, for everyone but Team GOP. They'll love him more.

But I'll ask: if he paid no taxes, why didn't he create far more jobs than anybody else?
 
2012-07-31 04:31:52 PM

Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?


this is what i don't get. and it's amazing he's gotten this far.

but he did release them to the mccain campaign when they were vetting him for veep - and they picked palin. that should tell you everything you need to know.
 
2012-07-31 04:33:27 PM
Mitt Romney kicked a nun in the teeth and then got a tax credit for shoe repair.
 
2012-07-31 04:35:24 PM

Nadie_AZ: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

If this is true, Romney is beyond toast when he finally does release his Tax Returns. Well, for everyone but Team GOP. They'll love him more.

But I'll ask: if he paid no taxes, why didn't he create far more jobs than anybody else?


And are you still allowed to biatch about taxes if your tax bill is zero?

And if you can't biatch about taxes, are you still a Republican?
 
2012-07-31 04:35:47 PM

FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.


And why shouldn't he? The GOP knows that our main stream media have the attention span of a 3 year old with ADD. They know that by the time the debates come around this issue will be so old that it won't even come up.

Our media organizations are a pathetic joke.
 
2012-07-31 04:44:30 PM
It seems likely this is the case. But he has claimed to have been audited. Can the IRS confirm what year this audit took place?

Anyone?
 
2012-07-31 04:53:08 PM
What a wonderful variation on "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Well played.
 
2012-07-31 04:55:08 PM

Dogberry: What a wonderful variation on "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Well played.


actually, it's a classic use of "weasel words." fox does it all the time: "there are those who say that the president is a communist pedophile." they're not saying... they're just saying...
 
2012-07-31 05:04:00 PM

Nadie_AZ: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

If this is true, Romney is beyond toast when he finally does release his Tax Returns. Well, for everyone but Team GOP. They'll love him more.

But I'll ask: if he paid no taxes, why didn't he create far more jobs than anybody else?


Regulations.

And really, if he'd paid more taxes, that would disqualify him from being President.
Because Americans want someone who will do the bare minimum and no more.
 
2012-07-31 05:04:09 PM
This is what it's like when rich Mormons fight, apparently.
 
2012-07-31 05:04:30 PM
I don't trust Harry Reid not to have gotten played here.
 
2012-07-31 05:22:30 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This is what it's like when rich Mormons fight, apparently.


Rich Mormon v Rich Mormon in power. Heh.
 
2012-07-31 05:25:26 PM

ourbigdumbmouth: It seems likely this is the case. But he has claimed to have been audited. Can the IRS confirm what year this audit took place?


No.
 
2012-07-31 05:28:14 PM
This doesn't sound likely. No taxes at all? Nah.

I think it is more likely this, which is just as bad. And it fits the facts as we know them.
 
2012-07-31 05:34:26 PM
I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.
 
2012-07-31 05:36:12 PM

gilgigamesh: This doesn't sound likely. No taxes at all? Nah.

I think it is more likely this, which is just as bad. And it fits the facts as we know them.


I think that's very likely, yes. But I also think there are years where he not only paid zero taxes, but also got millions in refunds.
 
Byn
2012-07-31 06:22:22 PM
I doubt Reid believes it himself, but damn if it's not a really good way to force Mitt to prove that he's wrong.

Well played, Harry. Well played.
 
2012-07-31 06:25:44 PM
A month or so ago, he said, a person who had invested with Bain Capital called his office.

"Harry, he didn't pay any taxes for 10 years," Reid recounted the person as saying.

"He didn't pay taxes for 10 years! Now, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain," said Reid. "But obviously he can't release those tax returns. How would it look?


Well if that's not an airtight allegation I don't know what is.
 
2012-07-31 06:28:00 PM

Quasar: A month or so ago, he said, a person who had invested with Bain Capital called his office.

"Harry, he didn't pay any taxes for 10 years," Reid recounted the person as saying.

"He didn't pay taxes for 10 years! Now, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain," said Reid. "But obviously he can't release those tax returns. How would it look?

Well if that's not an airtight allegation I don't know what is.


I think it's great. 'I'm not saying... I'm just saying.'
 
2012-07-31 06:47:25 PM

Quasar: A month or so ago, he said, a person who had invested with Bain Capital called his office.

"Harry, he didn't pay any taxes for 10 years," Reid recounted the person as saying.

"He didn't pay taxes for 10 years! Now, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain," said Reid. "But obviously he can't release those tax returns. How would it look?

Well if that's not an airtight allegation I don't know what is.


It doesn't matter. This is the same nonsense perpetrated by the right wing for years. Hell, they have a whole cable "news" network dedicated to this.

This does, though, make a problem wholly created by Romney through refusal to release any real tax history news yet again. Weasel word clearly work; they are still lame.
 
2012-07-31 07:03:44 PM
Considering how much mileage they are getting out of the "you didn't build that" lie, the Dems might as well go ahead and run with this.

And if it isn't true, well Mitt can always release his taxes to prove them wrong....
 
2012-07-31 07:08:27 PM

Bladel: Considering how much mileage they are getting out of the "you didn't build that" lie, the Dems might as well go ahead and run with this.

And if it isn't true, well Mitt can always release his taxes to prove them wrong....


What's amazing is that Rmoney feels this is preferred to actually releasing his returns.
 
2012-07-31 07:24:16 PM

Bontesla: Bladel: Considering how much mileage they are getting out of the "you didn't build that" lie, the Dems might as well go ahead and run with this.

And if it isn't true, well Mitt can always release his taxes to prove them wrong....

What's amazing is that Rmoney feels this is preferred to actually releasing his returns.


He still probably thinks people won't care enough for it to matter. and maybe for some that's true, but it is still several months until election and this kind of thing can erode his support. How can people trust a man who keeps these kinds of secrets?
 
2012-07-31 07:35:12 PM

JerseyTim: I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.



The "I didn't pay any taxes -- and that proves how farked up our Tax Code is BUT ALSO how smart I am!" ad practically writes itself. Who doesn't cheer for someone sneaky enough to get away with something completely legally, at some level?

The way-under-tithed thing is really interesting. If he has to catch-up tens of millions to LDS, he might be willing to take the hit politically in return for keeping the cash. After all, he's mostly spending other people's money on this campaign as well.
 
2012-07-31 07:43:22 PM
People say all kinds of things.

No need to resort to Fox News style "some people say" bullshiat.
 
2012-07-31 07:45:09 PM

wejash: The "I didn't pay any taxes -- and that proves how farked up our Tax Code is BUT ALSO how smart I am!" ad practically writes itself. Who doesn't cheer for someone sneaky enough to get away with something completely legally, at some level?


Um...the people who can't afford to give 10% of their income to their church and write it off. Who can't afford a dressage horse or cayman island bank accounts? These are loopholes that the rich exploit becuase they're not practical to be exploited by anyone else.

And that may rub the filthy masses the wrong way because they inevitably have to take up the slack for what the rich don't pay. (at least if the GOP gets their way)
 
2012-07-31 07:49:09 PM

wejash: JerseyTim: I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.


The "I didn't pay any taxes -- and that proves how farked up our Tax Code is BUT ALSO how smart I am!" ad practically writes itself. Who doesn't cheer for someone sneaky enough to get away with something completely legally, at some level?

The way-under-tithed thing is really interesting. If he has to catch-up tens of millions to LDS, he might be willing to take the hit politically in return for keeping the cash. After all, he's mostly spending other people's money on this campaign as well.


I worked for a mormon family. A cousin of the family was caught under tithing (the separated and scorned wife tipped off the sect leaders).

It was a huge freaking deal. The church used him as an example during sermons. They constantly bullied him. Members approached him - sent their children to approach him.
 
2012-07-31 07:49:44 PM

Aarontology: People say all kinds of things.

No need to resort to Fox News style "some people say" bullshiat.


It wasn't "some people." According to Reid it was a Bain investor.
 
2012-07-31 08:26:21 PM
Mitt also wrote off his extensive Nazi memorabilia collection as a business expense in 1996. He did. Can't prove otherwise, can you?
 
2012-07-31 08:30:57 PM

cameroncrazy1984: It wasn't "some people." According to Reid it was a Bain investor.


Hearsay within hearsay. Come on.
 
2012-07-31 08:34:00 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This is what it's like when rich Mormons fight, apparently.Roves cry.

 
2012-07-31 08:46:55 PM
Down in Bermuda, there's a girl I love because, she's down in Bermuda.

Bom-diddy-bom-ditty bom.

I probably pooched the lyrics I was drunk when I heard it.
 
2012-07-31 08:52:46 PM
Then he shouldn't be allowed to vote or run for any elected office
 
2012-07-31 08:57:48 PM
I heard, and I have no idea if this is true, that he can't release 12 years of returns because 12 years ago he didn't report the money he was paid to rape and murder a girl in 1990.
 
2012-07-31 08:57:57 PM
If I release the returns, do you think they'll shut up?
encrypted-tbn2.google.com


Nice world your party has created, isn't it?
encrypted-tbn3.google.com
 
2012-07-31 09:00:03 PM

kronicfeld: cameroncrazy1984: It wasn't "some people." According to Reid it was a Bain investor.

Hearsay within hearsay. Come on.


There's a really easy way for Mitt to prove him wrong.
 
2012-07-31 09:13:34 PM

gilgigamesh: I think it is more likely this, which is just as bad. And it fits the facts as we know them.


EG:
-- That he had a Swiss bank account
-- That it was closed in 2010
-- That it was with UBS
-- That the IRS amnesty was in 2009
-- That UBS was the bank at the center of the disclosures that formed the basis of the Amnesty
-- That of the 3000+ account holders who talked to the IRS in 2009, on the order of 100 had let the IRS know about the accounts previously.

propasaurus: I think it's great. 'I'm not saying... I'm just saying.'


A bit more class than claiming Mitt Romney's taxes raped and murdered a girl in 2009.
 
2012-07-31 09:16:14 PM
Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?
 
2012-07-31 09:21:43 PM

abb3w: gilgigamesh: I think it is more likely this, which is just as bad. And it fits the facts as we know them.

EG:
-- That he had a Swiss bank account
-- That it was closed in 2010
-- That it was with UBS
-- That the IRS amnesty was in 2009
-- That UBS was the bank at the center of the disclosures that formed the basis of the Amnesty
-- That of the 3000+ account holders who talked to the IRS in 2009, on the order of 100 had let the IRS know about the accounts previously.

propasaurus: I think it's great. 'I'm not saying... I'm just saying.'

A bit more class than claiming Mitt Romney's taxes raped and murdered a girl in 2009.


Also, Mitt gave McCain his returns up to 2008. Now, he's released only 2010, with a promise to release 2011 'when it's done.' So, what happened in 2009?
 
2012-07-31 09:28:13 PM

czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?


Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.
 
2012-07-31 09:29:18 PM

Ambivalence: wejash: The "I didn't pay any taxes -- and that proves how farked up our Tax Code is BUT ALSO how smart I am!" ad practically writes itself. Who doesn't cheer for someone sneaky enough to get away with something completely legally, at some level?

Um...the people who can't afford to give 10% of their income to their church and write it off. Who can't afford a dressage horse or cayman island bank accounts? These are loopholes that the rich exploit becuase they're not practical to be exploited by anyone else.

And that may rub the filthy masses the wrong way because they inevitably have to take up the slack for what the rich don't pay. (at least if the GOP gets their way)


Wait, you can write off money you give to a religious institution? I think I found a way to fund my retirement. I'll start a church and give write offs to my congregation for sir donations. If I declare myself the Grand Poobah can my salary be tax exempt too?
 
2012-07-31 09:31:35 PM
No one I know is even remotely excited about Mitt Romney. Not one. And I know a LOT of conservatives.

Most who say they'll vote for him are doing so 'cuz he's not sekrit black kenyin muslin soshulist.
 
2012-07-31 09:32:25 PM
Here's my favorite quote from Reid in that article:

"We feel comfortable in the Senate. Where the problem is, is this: Because of the Citizens United decision, Karl Rove and the Republicans are looking forward to a breakfast the day after the election. They are going to assemble 17 angry old white men for breakfast, some of them will slobber in their food, some will have scrambled eggs, some will have oatmeal, their teeth are gone. But these 17 angry old white men will say, 'Hey, we just bought America. Wasn't so bad. We still have a whole lot of money left.'"

Well-spoken, sir...
 
2012-07-31 09:34:28 PM

EngineerBoy: Here's my favorite quote from Reid in that article:

"We feel comfortable in the Senate. Where the problem is, is this: Because of the Citizens United decision, Karl Rove and the Republicans are looking forward to a breakfast the day after the election. They are going to assemble 17 angry old white men for breakfast, some of them will slobber in their food, some will have scrambled eggs, some will have oatmeal, their teeth are gone. But these 17 angry old white men will say, 'Hey, we just bought America. Wasn't so bad. We still have a whole lot of money left.'"

Well-spoken, sir...


Reid is a tough bastard when he wants to be. Dude knows politics.
 
2012-07-31 09:38:17 PM
He's polling much better than I expected.

If it was just his hair that was being elected I would feel much more comfortable. His hairdo is very soothing, it's the meat below it that has me a bit nervous.
 
2012-07-31 09:40:48 PM

Lsherm: czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.


Your own article says he pays much more than the average American. He paid slightly less than the average 1%er because he gave a bunch to charity.
 
2012-07-31 09:43:48 PM

brap: He's polling much better than I expected.

If it was just his hair that was being elected I would feel much more comfortable. His hairdo is very soothing, it's the meat below it that has me a bit nervous.


His eyebrows are tremendous. Caterpillars tremble in fear.
 
2012-07-31 09:44:02 PM

brap: He's polling much better than I expected.

If it was just his hair that was being elected I would feel much more comfortable. His hairdo is very soothing, it's the meat below it that has me a bit nervous.


You could say Mitt's support is scalp deep.
 
2012-07-31 09:44:40 PM

Lsherm: I haven't gone through all of his tax returns



And at least you CAN go through his tax returns, since he's release 10+ years of them.
 
2012-07-31 09:47:05 PM
I've just uncovered a lost Philip K. Dick novel: "Do Androids Pay Any Taxes At All?"
 
2012-07-31 09:55:15 PM

Wendy's Chili: Mitt Romney kicked a nun in the teeth and then got a tax credit for shoe repair.


Mitt Romney rented a $100 whore and then got a tax credit for his Valtrex.
 
2012-07-31 09:59:35 PM

Three Crooked Squirrels: Lsherm: czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.

Your own article says he pays much more than the average American. He paid slightly less than the average 1%er because he gave a bunch to charity.


OK, fair enough. But he didn't pay 30%.
 
2012-07-31 10:01:18 PM

Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?


"I'm better than everyone else, and I don't need to play by their rules, because I'm awesome."
 
2012-07-31 10:05:10 PM
And yet hardcore Republicans who think gays, guns n' God is more important won't give a shiat because that's how they've been wired.
 
2012-07-31 10:10:00 PM
We Just Still Don't Know What Secrets Hide In Romney's Tax Returns, That His Own Father Would Not Have Had To Hide.
 
2012-07-31 10:13:50 PM
Mitt Romney invested in Mapplethorpe artwork and wrote it off as decoration for his home/office.
 
2012-07-31 10:13:56 PM

Asa Phelps: We Just Still Don't Know What Secrets Hide In Romney's Tax Returns, That His Own Father Would Not Have Had To Hide.


WJSDKWSHIRTRTHOFWNHHTH?

I don't get it.

/Unless it's a Jumble
 
2012-07-31 10:27:09 PM
Broke ass Republican: "Rich guy, no taxes? He's our better. No taxes sounds about right. You still hate gays and minorities, right?"
 
2012-07-31 10:28:38 PM

Bontesla: Bladel: Considering how much mileage they are getting out of the "you didn't build that" lie, the Dems might as well go ahead and run with this.

And if it isn't true, well Mitt can always release his taxes to prove them wrong....

What's amazing is that Rmoney feels this is preferred to actually releasing his returns.


The load of bullsh*t we're supposed to be swallowing from Romney is this: "I have nothing to hide in my tax returns, but if I release them the Democrats will nevertheless find ways to attack me based on all the severely normal and perfectly legal things that are in there."
 
2012-07-31 10:36:26 PM

Gwendolyn: Wait, you can write off money you give to a religious institution? I think I found a way to fund my retirement. I'll start a church and give write offs to my congregation for sir donations. If I declare myself the Grand Poobah can my salary be tax exempt too?


Well yeah. They call that "The Ol' L. Ron Hubbard".
 
2012-07-31 10:41:02 PM
"You know, I think it's fine to talk about those things in quiet rooms..."

www.washingtonpost.com
 
2012-07-31 10:46:14 PM

czei: Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?


Obama should casually state that he pays his fair, unlike his opponent who for several years paid zero in taxes. Just drop it on his head like a goddamn bag of hammers. Mitt will get flustered, and pretty much his only defense would be "if you saw my taxes, you'd know that I've never payed zero in taxes," which would lead to one of the most awkward moments in debate history. The alternative is to admonish Obama for saying something uncalled for, but whoever does that in a debate always looks bad.

Romney could always bet him $10,000 that he's paid all his taxes.
 
2012-07-31 10:46:42 PM
so the leader of the Senate that gets his money from insider trading and favors from his contributors, the guy that has his sons working as lobbiests, the guy that made millions in real estate from political favors is attacking the rich guy for adhering to a tax code that is written by the Senate the leader heads. and democrats are outraged at Romney?
 
2012-07-31 10:55:23 PM
Some think I have too much interest in US politics as a Canadian.

Anyways, my 7 year old daughter often asks me questions about US politics. I'm not shy about telling her why I think Romney would be a bad choice for US President.

Anyways, I said something bad (but polite) about Romney the other day and she said "He's like the Mayor in they Yogi Bear movie" and I told her she was very smart and very correct and he most certainly is.
 
2012-07-31 11:00:06 PM

DeltaPunch: czei: Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Obama should casually state that he pays his fair, unlike his opponent who for several years paid zero in taxes. Just drop it on his head like a goddamn bag of hammers. Mitt will get flustered, and pretty much his only defense would be "if you saw my taxes, you'd know that I've never payed zero in taxes," which would lead to one of the most awkward moments in debate history. The alternative is to admonish Obama for saying something uncalled for, but whoever does that in a debate always looks bad.

Romney could always bet him $10,000 that he's paid all his taxes.


Nah, mormons aren't supposed to gamble.

Unless it's with the lives of people who work for the companies they bought and are playing with like chips in a poker game.
 
2012-07-31 11:00:20 PM

EnviroDude: so the leader of the Senate that gets his money from insider trading and favors from his contributors, the guy that has his sons working as lobbiests, the guy that made millions in real estate from political favors is attacking the rich guy for adhering to a tax code that is written by the Senate the leader heads. and democrats are outraged at Romney?


Personally, I am disgusted by all the sleeze in politics, both sides, which is why I favor public funding of elections. But on the topic of Romney's returns, I don't think he did anything illegal. At least I doubt he did. There is the possibility of 2009 amnesty. But if that isn't in there, I think the reason he is hiding the returns is because he paid ridiculously low rates in certain years and they are afraid to have a discussion about tax fairness. They are afraid of ads saying "in 2008, Mitt Romney was worth a quarter of a billion dollars and paid a 2.4% tax rate. What did you pay in 2008?"
 
2012-07-31 11:05:02 PM

Three Crooked Squirrels: EnviroDude: so the leader of the Senate that gets his money from insider trading and favors from his contributors, the guy that has his sons working as lobbiests, the guy that made millions in real estate from political favors is attacking the rich guy for adhering to a tax code that is written by the Senate the leader heads. and democrats are outraged at Romney?

Personally, I am disgusted by all the sleeze in politics, both sides, which is why I favor public funding of elections. But on the topic of Romney's returns, I don't think he did anything illegal. At least I doubt he did. There is the possibility of 2009 amnesty. But if that isn't in there, I think the reason he is hiding the returns is because he paid ridiculously low rates in certain years and they are afraid to have a discussion about tax fairness. They are afraid of ads saying "in 2008, Mitt Romney was worth a quarter of a billion dollars and paid a 2.4% tax rate. What did you pay in 2008?"


And you don't think that's a valid point?
 
2012-07-31 11:06:01 PM

Three Crooked Squirrels: But on the topic of Romney's returns, I don't think he did anything illegal


Probably not illegal. But that says more about our tax laws than his ethics.
 
2012-07-31 11:18:57 PM
Three Crooked SquirrelsPersonally, I am disgusted by all the sleeze in politics, both sides, which is why I favor public funding of elections. But on the topic of Romney's returns, I don't think he did anything illegal. At least I doubt he did. There is the possibility of 2009 amnesty. But if that isn't in there, I think the reason he is hiding the returns is because he paid ridiculously low rates in certain years and they are afraid to have a discussion about tax fairness. They are afraid of ads saying "in 2008, Mitt Romney was worth a quarter of a billion dollars and paid a 2.4% tax rate. What did you pay in 2008?"

I am disgusted by all the sleeze in big business. Which is why i favor disclosure by Romney.
 
2012-07-31 11:24:59 PM
Propasaurus: I do think it is a valid point, and I think they are afraid to discuss it precisely because it is valid. I was inartfully addressing Envirodude's assertion that libs are attacking the fact that he legally followed the tax code. That's not what will hurt Romney. What will hurt Romney is a concrete example of the tax code allowing the ultrarich to legally pay low rates while at the same time, the ultrarich guy is complaining that taxes are too high
on the rich. That's a conversation they don't want to have.

Mugato: exactly.
 
2012-07-31 11:32:17 PM
Not paying taxes is now patriotic. Aren't we

Taxed
Enough
Already?

When Romney is President he and his rich friends will teach us how to make money too.
 
2012-07-31 11:34:20 PM
A cute tactic.

Romney is forced to deny these claims, but won't provide any proof, even though it's well within his ability to do so.

He's going to have to release them eventually, because this accusation is only going to snowball.
 
2012-07-31 11:34:36 PM
The Republicans are so in the pocket of the robber barons that it's not even like they picked their nominee.

He picked them.

/pathetic
 
2012-07-31 11:37:01 PM
I'll bet Gingrich and Santorum are kicking themselves for not pushing Rmoney harder on this during the primaries. This is not the sort of issue which should be coming to light heading into the convention.
 
2012-07-31 11:38:37 PM

vernonFL: Wendy's Chili: Mitt Romney kicked a nun in the teeth and then got a tax credit for shoe repair.

Mitt Romney rented a $100 whore and then got a tax credit for his Valtrex.


Jorie charges more than that

/sorry
 
2012-07-31 11:39:20 PM

LarryDan43: When Romney is President he and his rich friends will teach us how to make money too.


Step 1: Be born with an excessive amount of cash.
Step 2: Loan that excess to other people, with contractually obligated repayment backed up by the Federal court system
Step 3: Complain about socialism keeping you down.
Step 4: Rake in the Riches, continue to Step 1
 
2012-07-31 11:39:50 PM
"When a man assumes public office he should consider himself public property"

~Thomas Jefferson

Why do Republicans hate the Founding Fathers?
 
2012-07-31 11:40:35 PM
The GOP could have nominated some faux-everyman with maybe a few mil in the bank, and they could have kept the "rich pay too much!" insanity going through the election. Instead, they nominated Richie Rich who is paying impossibly low tax rates that the average American can only dream of. How many jobs did Romney "create" with all of those tax breaks? How can a guy who paid little-to-no taxes say the rich are still paying too much?
 
2012-07-31 11:41:15 PM
When Romney first come out and refused to release more tax returns he was being clubbed quite viciously over his 'retroactive' retirement at Bain and his wonky timelines. My first impression was that they were intertwined - that Romney didn't want to release his returns because they would show he made 3,5,10+ million a year from Bain during the years he was 'retired'.

The problem with that hypothesis is that in order to enlighten us about his final years at Bain Romney would have to release almost a decade of returns. He could quite easily deflate most the pressure by releasing just short of that, a good 6 years of returns, and clear most the speculation out if those returns are mundane.

His utter refusal to release any more returns at all makes it pretty clear that it's something recent - something in the last 6 years. Which is to say there's something in his tax returns from the years he's been running for president that he doesn't want us to see.

This is reaching John Edwards level of narcissism. Do these people honestly believe they can make it through a presidential election just by ignoring the skeletons in their closets and hoping they don't come up? Just wow.
 
2012-07-31 11:43:57 PM
Pretty smart move to force Romney's hand -- just say outrageous things that he can only disprove by releasing his tax returns.
 
2012-07-31 11:44:40 PM
EXACTLY.

He buys up American companies, trashes them to make a buck, puts people out of work...

then takes his cash and siphons it out of the USA without even paying a fair share to the country he pretends to love.


The fact this turd is running for president is farking scary. He's the ENEMY.
 
2012-07-31 11:45:45 PM

JerseyTim: I don't trust Harry Reid not to have gotten played here.


He has plausible deniability. If he and his source are wrong, "I couldn't verify the accuracy of these statements, but given Mr. Romney's actions leading up to the release of his returns, I believe the accusations were more than likely true. I fully appreciate the Republican nominee's willingness to come clean to the American public blah blah blah." If he's right, well, damn.
 
2012-07-31 11:47:38 PM
Romney is terrified of his own tax records. i'm 99.99% sure he didn't break any laws tho, so if he's done nothing illegal Romney should just man up and release his records.
 
2012-07-31 11:47:43 PM

Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?


He was thinking "I'm a millionaire because I'm the most awesome motherfarker on the planet. Of course I'm going to win, and no one is going to question anything about me, because didn't you just hear me? I'm the most awesome motherfarker on the planet. Of course I'm going to win."

The guy is so separated from reality he literally has no idea what it's like to be challenged. He's lived a life of privilege from the very beginning. People have always been yes-men to him, because he's always had money. I sincerely doubt anyone in his entire life has ever said "no" to him until now.
 
2012-07-31 11:49:46 PM
The sad thing is the fact that if it is shown he paid no taxes for the last ten years -- a good portion of the Republican base will champion that.

:(

/no slahies, too sad
//wait, wut?
 
2012-07-31 11:50:10 PM
When he can figure out how to write off his $500,000 'dressage' horse...then yes, Romney can figure out how to squirrel away all his cash and hide it from taxation.

His continual flubs should eat away at his poll numbers, the 100 of millions in ads may prop it up, but no amount of money can polish this Romney turd.
 
2012-07-31 11:50:50 PM
On my phone, *every* ad on Fark is a Romney campaign ad. I don't think he'll gain much support from a site with fact-based readers.
 
2012-07-31 11:50:54 PM
WHAR TAX RETERNS RMONEY WHAR?
 
2012-07-31 11:51:35 PM
It's just getting worse for Romney.

He won't release them until after the convention.

Of course maybe he'll do it before he announces the VP pick.

When's the convention again?

Actually, more importantly, who is actually attending beside Romney and the second string Republicans?

Oh well, back to speculation on what exactly Romney is hiding.

He should really remember that the human imagination is a powerful thing. The monster you don't see is scarier than something revealed.
 
2012-07-31 11:53:04 PM

MithrandirBooga: I sincerely doubt anyone in his entire life has ever said "no" to him until now.


And he's not handling the experience very well either. I think he's deeply angry about the fact that he can't have the uppity peasants beaten for being impertinent.

that aside, one thing is certain: Romney is terrified about those tax returns. whatever is in them is pretty damaging.
 
2012-07-31 11:58:05 PM

johnnyrocket: When he can figure out how to write off his $500,000 'dressage' horse...then yes, Romney can figure out how to squirrel away all his cash and hide it from taxation.

His continual flubs should eat away at his poll numbers, the 100 of millions in ads may prop it up, but no amount of money can polish this Romney turd.


Karl Roves secret plan
 
2012-07-31 11:59:05 PM
I wish some sheriff from some dumpy little county would step up and form a cold case posse to interview this Bain leak and see what's up. Also they should stand by to investigate the veracity of any returns released. The Barney Fifier the better.
 
2012-08-01 12:02:54 AM

Dinki: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

And why shouldn't he? The GOP knows that our main stream media have the attention span of a 3 year old with ADD. They know that by the time the debates come around this issue will be so old that it won't even come up.

Our media organizations are a pathetic joke.


Pathetic joke = publishing this comment from Reid that could have been completely fabricated and treating it like it could be more than halfway true. Yes, Romney hasn't released his taxes, and that raises suspicion, but have some discretion about what you publish. If John Boehner tomorrow says that he heard from a source in the White House that President Obama has cheated on his wife, should that be reported as NEWS? No. There must be a distinction between OPINIONS, which are fine to disseminate, and FALSE ("evidence not needed because obvious or we want to believe") "FACTS".

Informed opinions and facts are for news. False "facts" are for tabloids. MSM is no longer news but a tabloid with news on page 4.
 
2012-08-01 12:04:21 AM
Asa Phelps: Three Crooked SquirrelsPersonally, I am disgusted by all the sleeze in politics, both sides, which is why I favor public funding of elections. But on the topic of Romney's returns, I don't think he did anything illegal. At least I doubt he did. There is the possibility of 2009 amnesty. But if that isn't in there, I think the reason he is hiding the returns is because he paid ridiculously low rates in certain years and they are afraid to have a discussion about tax fairness. They are afraid of ads saying "in 2008, Mitt Romney was worth a quarter of a billion dollars and paid a 2.4% tax rate. What did you pay in 2008?"

I am disgusted by all the sleeze in big business. Which is why i favor disclosure by Romney.



You're making a pretty bold statement here.
 
2012-08-01 12:05:43 AM

mrEdude: EXACTLY.

He buys up American companies, trashes them to make a buck, puts people out of work...

then takes his cash and siphons it out of the USA without even paying a fair share to the country he pretends to love.


The fact this turd is running for president is farking scary. He's the ENEMY.


Most the voting populace just doesn't care.

They do not, and will never, look past whatever letter is next to their name.
They are straight ticket and damn proud of it.

There is only one way Obama can lose. And he may very well lose. That is when (out of regular voters) all the (R)s faithfully show up to vote and only 80% of the (D)s do.

GO VOTE

OR THAT SMARMY TAX DODGING BILLIONAIRE (worth 250mil? yeah, ok...) IS GOING TO BE YOUR NEXT PRESIDENT

AND JUST LIKE BUSH, HE'LL LOCK US IN A NEW WAR TO SECURE THE 2ND TERM
 
2012-08-01 12:05:53 AM
Headline reminded me of this:

i2.photobucket.com

I can't blame them. I think if I were in the President's shoes, I would definitely want the election to be all about Romney's tax returns. Not that Romney's a real gem...
 
2012-08-01 12:07:12 AM

rudemix: I wish some sheriff from some dumpy little county would step up and form a cold case posse to interview this Bain leak and see what's up. Also they should stand by to investigate the veracity of any returns released. The Barney Fifier the better.


Why don 't we do it ourselves? As Concerned Citizens, what would we lack that a county sheriff from Bumfark Nowhere would have? Or his deputy?

People like to bleat about Citizen Journalist Bloggers. Well, let's see some real journalism, Citizens!
 
2012-08-01 12:08:13 AM
Mitt Romney bought a pair of Fabergé eggs, had them cooked as a two egg omelet and then wrote it off as a business lunch.
 
2012-08-01 12:08:44 AM

EnviroDude: so the leader of the Senate that gets his money from insider trading and favors from his contributors, the guy that has his sons working as lobbiests, the guy that made millions in real estate from political favors is attacking the rich guy for adhering to a tax code that is written by the Senate the leader heads. and democrats are outraged at Romney?


We don't know if Romney adhered to the tax code or not. I'm assuming not, otherwise he wouldn't be hiding his returns now would he?
 
2012-08-01 12:09:32 AM
On a side note, I'm really curious to know if Obama knows what Romney's hiding.
 
2012-08-01 12:10:20 AM

Weaver95: Romney is terrified of his own tax records. i'm 99.99% sure he didn't break any laws tho, so if he's done nothing illegal Romney should just man up and release his records.



whatstrending.com


Weav, even though I'm the librulest lib to ever lib, you've shown up in bright green for years because of stuff like this. So true.


/no homo
 
2012-08-01 12:12:37 AM

shower_in_my_socks: The GOP could have nominated some faux-everyman with maybe a few mil in the bank, and they could have kept the "rich pay too much!" insanity going through the election. Instead, they nominated Richie Rich who is paying impossibly low tax rates that the average American can only dream of. How many jobs did Romney "create" with all of those tax breaks? How can a guy who paid little-to-no taxes say the rich are still paying too much?


Hell, they could've nominated Huntsman, a super wealthy Mormon moderate, and not had the same problems.
 
2012-08-01 12:13:45 AM
If only there was a way Romney could end all this speculation...
 
2012-08-01 12:14:22 AM

Bontesla: wejash: JerseyTim: I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.


The "I didn't pay any taxes -- and that proves how farked up our Tax Code is BUT ALSO how smart I am!" ad practically writes itself. Who doesn't cheer for someone sneaky enough to get away with something completely legally, at some level?

The way-under-tithed thing is really interesting. If he has to catch-up tens of millions to LDS, he might be willing to take the hit politically in return for keeping the cash. After all, he's mostly spending other people's money on this campaign as well.

I worked for a mormon family. A cousin of the family was caught under tithing (the separated and scorned wife tipped off the sect leaders).

It was a huge freaking deal. The church used him as an example during sermons. They constantly bullied him. Members approached him - sent their children to approach him.


Sounds like a lost early scene from Children of the Corn before the kids took over...
 
2012-08-01 12:15:32 AM
He's both the 1% AND the 47%. What now GOP shills? How about HIM paying his fair share?
 
2012-08-01 12:16:22 AM
The Romney campaign's press secretary, Andrea Saul, has previously denied rumors that Romney didn't pay "any taxes at all."

Oh, I'm sure at some point he bought a pack of gum of something and paid sales tax on it.
 
2012-08-01 12:17:11 AM

farkityfarker: On a side note, I'm really curious to know if Obama knows what Romney's hiding.


He controls the IRS, of course he knows.
 
2012-08-01 12:18:20 AM

AkaDad: If only there was a way Romney could end all this speculation...


I'm guessing that he realizes that releasing the returns would end his hopes for winning the election. So he's going to try to ride it out instead.
 
2012-08-01 12:18:31 AM
Yeah... I'm going with extremely low tax rate.

He's too important to the LDS for tithing to be an issue. Even if he undertithed by millions, they'd just have a revelation about why his tithing math is valid. The value of having the first Mormon president is worth way more than a few million, plus no one would care about the tithing issue outside the church.

Even the UBS/amnesty issue has few legs. Too complex to work into soundbites.

But embarrassing low tax rate? Simple to exploit in an ad, and particularly effective with blue collar rust belt workers that Obama needs to win.
 
2012-08-01 12:19:27 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: Lsherm: czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.

Your own article says he pays much more than the average American. He paid slightly less than the average 1%er because he gave a bunch to charity.


The Mormon church is not a "charity" it is a hate group masquerading as a church.

/see Prop. 8 in California if you don't believe me
 
2012-08-01 12:20:15 AM
Come on, Mitt. We just want to see your tax returns

encrypted-tbn1.google.com

since the year 2000
 
2012-08-01 12:21:49 AM
Whisper campaigns are low rent.
 
2012-08-01 12:21:59 AM

Lsherm: Three Crooked Squirrels: Lsherm: czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.

Your own article says he pays much more than the average American. He paid slightly less than the average 1%er because he gave a bunch to charity.

OK, fair enough. But he didn't pay 30%.


Fine, he didn't pay 30%. But of the two of them, Obama is the only one trying to get the wealthy to carry their weight so this country can get back on its feet again. Romney is trying to figure out how he can keep ALL of his skin out of the game, and how to take some of your skin too.
 
2012-08-01 12:22:52 AM

farkityfarker: On a side note, I'm really curious to know if Obama knows what Romney's hiding.


A guy like romney has many many people who know about his finances. Of course they could never talk about them legally, but a back room conversation seems likely. I would bet Obama knows, along with just about everybody in Washington dc at this point. Hell at least few dozen people at the IRS know for sure and their are many ways to to tell something without actually saying it outright. Romney is an idiot of he thinks he can count on everyone to keep his secrets.
 
2012-08-01 12:24:33 AM
So, Ron Paul at the convention, eh?
 
2012-08-01 12:26:22 AM

my lip balm addiction: Lsherm: Three Crooked Squirrels: Lsherm: czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.

Your own article says he pays much more than the average American. He paid slightly less than the average 1%er because he gave a bunch to charity.

OK, fair enough. But he didn't pay 30%.

Fine, he didn't pay 30%. But of the two of them, Obama is the only one trying to get the wealthy to carry their weight so this country can get back on its feet again. Romney is trying to figure out how he can keep ALL of his skin out of the game, and how to take some of your skin too.


How much Obama paid is irrelevant.

What's relevant is that we know how much he paid. We have no idea how much Romney paid.
 
2012-08-01 12:27:39 AM

farkityfarker: On a side note, I'm really curious to know if Obama knows what Romney's hiding.


Well, I went digging and found out that the Commissioner of the IRS is a 5 year appointment, so unlikely a Bush holdover would help him. But, I still get the feeling he knows. He has to. He's got a whole network of people within and outside the government to find out this kind of stuff. Legally or illegally, these words have no place. I'm thinking he's got to know.

However, I did find this pretty nugget of info on the IRS wiki page...

Reporter Jack White of The Providence Journal, won the Pulitzer Prize for reporting about Nixon's tax returns. Nixon, with a salary of $200,000, paid $792.81 in federal income tax in 1970 and $878.03 in 1971, with deductions of $571,000 for donating "vice-presidential papers".[10] This was one of the reasons for his famous statement: "Well, I'm not a crook. I've earned everything I've got."

Sound's pretty f*cking familiar.
 
2012-08-01 12:30:01 AM
media.katu.com

"Who puts door knobs in the centre? Sheeesh. Ah ha! Ha. Ahahahaha!
 
2012-08-01 12:33:25 AM

propasaurus: shower_in_my_socks: The GOP could have nominated some faux-everyman with maybe a few mil in the bank, and they could have kept the "rich pay too much!" insanity going through the election. Instead, they nominated Richie Rich who is paying impossibly low tax rates that the average American can only dream of. How many jobs did Romney "create" with all of those tax breaks? How can a guy who paid little-to-no taxes say the rich are still paying too much?

Hell, they could've nominated Huntsman, a super wealthy Mormon moderate, and not had the same problems.


Oh so motherfarking THIS!

/and then the GOP would have had a real chance instead of the insanity brigade they are shoving down our throats
//is there a single European country that Romney didn't have to backtrack or apologize to?
 
2012-08-01 12:35:52 AM

farkityfarker: my lip balm addiction: Lsherm: Three Crooked Squirrels: Lsherm: czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.

Your own article says he pays much more than the average American. He paid slightly less than the average 1%er because he gave a bunch to charity.

OK, fair enough. But he didn't pay 30%.

Fine, he didn't pay 30%. But of the two of them, Obama is the only one trying to get the wealthy to carry their weight so this country can get back on its feet again. Romney is trying to figure out how he can keep ALL of his skin out of the game, and how to take some of your skin too.

How much Obama paid is irrelevant.

What's relevant is that we know how much he paid. We have no idea how much Romney paid.


true dat
 
2012-08-01 12:37:43 AM

FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.


His campaign could plausibly survive the fallout from revelation that he paid no or very low taxes for ten years. What couldn't survive is the right-wing meme that "Job Creators are overtaxed." That in turn would defeat the whole purpose of putting a Republican in the White House, which is to create more tax loopholes and subsidies for the uber-rich, all the while cutting public assistance for everyone else.
 
2012-08-01 12:39:14 AM

farkityfarker: On a side note, I'm really curious to know if Obama knows what Romney's hiding.


It beggars belief that there isn't someone on McCain's team who saw the returns and has passed on the goodies.

Human nature to want to boast about "I know ...." plus dislike of Romney

So very high probability that Obama knows, but he doesn't want to be seen as slinging unsubstantiated mud.

So you'd think he'd find someone to act as a stalking horse ... oh wait
 
2012-08-01 12:42:03 AM

my lip balm addiction: Three Crooked Squirrels: Lsherm: czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.

Your own article says he pays much more than the average American. He paid slightly less than the average 1%er because he gave a bunch to charity.

The Mormon church is not a "charity" it is a hate group masquerading as a church.

/see Prop. 8 in California if you don't believe me


I'm pretty sure Obama didn't give to the LDS. Read that post over.
 
2012-08-01 12:43:32 AM

bugontherug: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

His campaign could plausibly survive the fallout from revelation that he paid no or very low taxes for ten years. What couldn't survive is the right-wing meme that "Job Creators are overtaxed." That in turn would defeat the whole purpose of putting a Republican in the White House, which is to create more tax loopholes and subsidies for the uber-rich, all the while cutting public assistance for everyone else.


The whole 'job creator' meme needs to die. Until it does, it only serves the purpose of pointing out the economically ignorant, if they use that phrase seriously.
 
2012-08-01 12:44:34 AM

shower_in_my_socks: The GOP could have nominated some faux-everyman with maybe a few mil in the bank, and they could have kept the "rich pay too much!" insanity going through the election. Instead, they nominated Richie Rich who is paying impossibly low tax rates that the average American can only dream of. How many jobs did Romney "create" with all of those tax breaks? How can a guy who paid little-to-no taxes say the rich are still paying too much?


Richie was more than anything distinguished by wanting to be just another down to earth kid. He was rich, but he was never a douche about it, never held it over people's heads, never thought it made him better.

Romney is the anti-Richie Rich.
 
2012-08-01 12:48:15 AM
i782.photobucket.com
"Ratfarking" is a proud Republican tradition.

The 'Bain Investor' could be a fake, delivering the goods to Reid to get Reid to announce "I have this information, that Romney did 'X'." Then the "truth" could come out, making Reid look 1. Like complete ass 2. Wrong 3. Innoculate Romney from any further accusations.

C'mon, people. TANG/Rather wasn't that long ago.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-01 12:50:08 AM
He'll never release them. No way. Whatever it is is bad. So bad it makes this unending beating seem merciful.

I wonder if his campaign staff follow online comments. You know, to understand the independents. I hope they do and I hope it depresses them appropriately.
 
2012-08-01 12:52:20 AM

Loucifer: Asa Phelps: Three Crooked SquirrelsPersonally, I am disgusted by all the sleeze in politics, both sides, which is why I favor public funding of elections. But on the topic of Romney's returns, I don't think he did anything illegal. At least I doubt he did. There is the possibility of 2009 amnesty. But if that isn't in there, I think the reason he is hiding the returns is because he paid ridiculously low rates in certain years and they are afraid to have a discussion about tax fairness. They are afraid of ads saying "in 2008, Mitt Romney was worth a quarter of a billion dollars and paid a 2.4% tax rate. What did you pay in 2008?"

I am disgusted by all the sleeze in big business. Which is why i favor disclosure by Romney.


You're making a pretty bold statement here.


Awesome. I don't really have anything to add - but that comment got a good laugh out of me
 
2012-08-01 12:54:05 AM

Ambivalence: wejash: The "I didn't pay any taxes -- and that proves how farked up our Tax Code is BUT ALSO how smart I am!" ad practically writes itself. Who doesn't cheer for someone sneaky enough to get away with something completely legally, at some level?

Um...the people who can't afford to give 10% of their income to their church and write it off. Who can't afford a dressage horse or cayman island bank accounts? These are loopholes that the rich exploit becuase they're not practical to be exploited by anyone else.

And that may rub the filthy masses the wrong way because they inevitably have to take up the slack for what the rich don't pay. (at least if the GOP gets their way)


The election battle is in the middle class white guy group. Romney can't quite get enough of them to win outright based on the economy. And he doesn't have the "buddy" quality that works. But pulling off a "hey, I didn't pay taxes, and I'll help you get away with something too!" thing might work for him in that demographic.

In all seriousness, who does he LOSE who he was going to win otherwise because he didn't pay taxes? If blue collar white guys with minimal education vote in people willing to destroy unions then there's plenty of reason to assume these guys might ALSO elect a guy who promises to screw them on taxes while not paying any himself.

I don't think he has the courage to try this sort of approach but I don't see it's any riskier than some of the other things that don't work for him now.
 
2012-08-01 12:54:56 AM
Is it too late to vote for Palin? (kidding.. sort of)
I'm an indie. I vote by the same mind-set as to who I'd hire for any job.
I'd be happy if there were a hundred people to give Obama a run for his money.
I'd not hire Romney to manage my grocery bills much less balance the US natioal budget.

/Romney's the best you got? Might want to re-group... maybe even step aside. Why do you even continue with this stuffed suit? This is not a game.
 
2012-08-01 12:56:03 AM

StopLurkListen: [i782.photobucket.com image 90x88]
"Ratfarking" is a proud Republican tradition.

The 'Bain Investor' could be a fake, delivering the goods to Reid to get Reid to announce "I have this information, that Romney did 'X'." Then the "truth" could come out, making Reid look 1. Like complete ass 2. Wrong 3. Innoculate Romney from any further accusations.

C'mon, people. TANG/Rather wasn't that long ago.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x202]


The flaw in your evil plan is that for the "truth" to come out, Romney would have to release his tax returns. And at this point, if he releases returns back to, say, 2007, people will wonder what he's hiding in 2006.
Reid's statement is different than the Rather incident. He specifically said, 'hey, I can't say with 100% certainty, I'm just saying'.'
 
2012-08-01 12:56:06 AM

Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?


derosaworld.typepad.com
Possibly, he was considering his God complex.
 
2012-08-01 12:57:29 AM

Fista-Phobia: Whisper campaigns are low rent.


SHOW US YER BIG OL' RETURNS!!!

is that better?
 
2012-08-01 01:00:32 AM

Whar Tax Returns?
\o/
|
/\
 
2012-08-01 01:02:04 AM
Is it possible for private citizen Romney to be impeached before the election?
 
2012-08-01 01:02:47 AM
None of the Fark conservatives are ironically (considering a lot of them are birthers) defending Romney on this? You guys are slipping.
 
2012-08-01 01:04:28 AM

fusillade762: The Romney campaign's press secretary, Andrea Saul, has previously denied rumors that Romney didn't pay "any taxes at all."

Oh, I'm sure at some point he bought a pack of gum of something and paid sales tax on it.


No, I bet he drove (or had an aide drive) to New Hampshire to avoid sales tax.
 
2012-08-01 01:07:31 AM

EngineerBoy: Here's my favorite quote from Reid in that article:

"We feel comfortable in the Senate. Where the problem is, is this: Because of the Citizens United decision, Karl Rove and the Republicans are looking forward to a breakfast the day after the election. They are going to assemble 17 angry old white men for breakfast, some of them will slobber in their food, some will have scrambled eggs, some will have oatmeal, their teeth are gone. But these 17 angry old white men will say, 'Hey, we just bought America. Wasn't so bad. We still have a whole lot of money left.'"

Well-spoken, sir...


17? Why not 57?
 
2012-08-01 01:08:10 AM
October Surprise:

Warren Buffet will come out and drop a bomb on Romney's dealings at Bain.
 
2012-08-01 01:08:14 AM

Wendy's Chili: Mitt Romney kicked a nun in the teeth and then got a tax credit for shoe repair.


Mitt Romney shiat on my doorstep and then got a tax credit for toilet paper.
 
2012-08-01 01:16:11 AM

Sqrxz:

Pathetic joke = publishing this comment from Reid that could have been completely fabricated and treating it like it could be more than halfway true. Yes, Romney hasn't released his taxes, and that raises suspicion, but have some discretion about what you publish. If John Boehner tomorrow says that he heard from a source in the White House that President Obama has cheated on his wife, should that be reported as NEWS? No. There must be a distinction between OPINIONS, which are fine to disseminate, and FALSE ("evidence not needed because obvious or we want to believe") "FACTS".

Informed opinions and facts are for news. False "facts" are for tabloids. MSM is no longer news but a tabloid with news on page 4.


If John Boehner says he heard Obama cheated on his wife, there's literally no way for Obama to prove that isn't true. If Harry Reid says Romney paid no taxes, there's a pretty simple way for Romney to prove him wrong.

Not to mention that Romney's (and other wealthy Americans') tax rates are slightly more relevant to the election than Obama's fidelity.

I'm not saying what Reid said wasn't political, calculated, and possibly part of a concerted effort to keep at least part of the media's focus on Romney's mysterious tax returns. But at least it's somewhat germane to the conversation, and something that can be easily repudiated, should Romney choose to.

Accusing your opponent of something which has no bearing on his record or ability to govern, in the complete absence of any evidence of guilt, and which is impossible to completely disprove, is not equvalent at all to what we are discussing here.
 
2012-08-01 01:16:59 AM

Weaver95: Romney is terrified of his own tax records. i'm 99.99% sure he didn't break any laws tho, so if he's done nothing illegal Romney should just man up and release his records.


I know a guy who claims to know a guy who signs off on Romney's final Tax Returns every year and that he would never, ever sign off on something that actually broke any laws.

Of course I also was acquainted with someone who claimed to roll with the Bush twins back in the day and how their antics (and resulting buying-up of incriminating evidence) funded a few departments of their high school.

I always wonder if those stories are true, but they're certainly interesting.
 
2012-08-01 01:17:03 AM
Yeah, whatever.
Seven of the top ten richest butt clowns in Congress are Democrats.
How much in taxes have they avoided paying?
Link
 
2012-08-01 01:22:10 AM

wejash: The "I didn't pay any taxes -- and that proves how farked up our Tax Code is BUT ALSO how smart I am!" ad practically writes itself. Who doesn't cheer for someone sneaky enough to get away with something completely legally, at some level?


As long as you ignore the part where Romney lobbied for lowering capital gains and other "loopholes", only to then use them and say "well it's not my fault!".

My opinion is "All of the above" when it comes to "why won't Mitt Romney release his tax returns?". 100 million IRA, Swiss account amnesty, low (or non existent) tax payment, etc. etc. etc.

Mitt Romney strikes me as someone who will do just about ANYTHING to hoard money. There was a point where he said he would tell the press if he paid less than 13.9% in any other earlier years, and then his staff said no. I assume that means he did pay less than 13% taxes at least one year, and likely more.

The Romney tax issue isn't going to go away.
 
2012-08-01 01:22:49 AM

StopLurkListen: [i782.photobucket.com image 90x88]
"Ratfarking" is a proud Republican tradition.

The 'Bain Investor' could be a fake, delivering the goods to Reid to get Reid to announce "I have this information, that Romney did 'X'." Then the "truth" could come out, making Reid look 1. Like complete ass 2. Wrong 3. Innoculate Romney from any further accusations.

C'mon, people. TANG/Rather wasn't that long ago.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x202]


Not really an issue. Reid's "just asking questions" to get the Tax returns back in the news. Because as bad and as dedicated as the 25%ers are (you know, the 25% that still said Bush was doing a good job in 2008) things like Romney not paying taxes convince some of them to NOT VOTE. They'll never vote for a democrat, but if you play it right sometimes they won't vote at all.

And that's a win.
 
2012-08-01 01:27:28 AM

propasaurus: Because Americans want someone who will do the bare minimum and no more.


I'm counting your pieces of flair.

You DO want to express yourself, don't you?
 
2012-08-01 01:28:12 AM
Since the Tea Party is so upset over all of the Americans who don't pay taxes, I assume they'll be voting against Rmoney? Excuse me while I ROFL.
 
2012-08-01 01:28:56 AM

Nadie_AZ: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

If this is true, Romney is beyond toast when he finally does release his Tax Returns. Well, for everyone but Team GOP. They'll love him more.

But I'll ask: if he paid no taxes, why didn't he create far more jobs than anybody else?


He did. Retroactively.
 
2012-08-01 01:29:33 AM

themindiswatching: None of the Fark conservatives are ironically (considering a lot of them are birthers) defending Romney on this? You guys are slipping.


Politics tab threads are usually never published this late in the evening. The GOP shills know the schedule and come swarming in only when they expect articles to be published. It's not like their handlers are going to pay them for 24/7 trolling after all, they're business-minded people concerned about the bottom line, and off-hours 'grassroots' trolling isn't financially viable to them.
 
2012-08-01 01:32:17 AM

kronicfeld: Hearsay within hearsay. Come on.


Come on yourself. Hearsay and "gut feeling" was more than enough for you assholes to invade Iraq. Now suddenly it's not good enough?
 
2012-08-01 01:36:37 AM
I want it to be true, but it probably isn't true.
 
2012-08-01 01:37:40 AM

Bill_Wick's_Friend: propasaurus: Because Americans want someone who will do the bare minimum and no more.

I'm counting your pieces of flair, and campaign buttons...

You DO want to express yourself, don't you?


I promise to rid the world of flair....

cdn.buzznet.com
 
2012-08-01 01:38:13 AM
"His poor father must be so embarrassed about his son,"

Romney sucks and he would be terrible for the world, but that quote is a bit too much.
 
2012-08-01 01:42:31 AM

ArmednHammered: Yeah, whatever.


Both siedz aer bad so voet rMoney!
 
2012-08-01 01:43:40 AM

ArmednHammered: Yeah, whatever.
Seven of the top ten richest butt clowns in Congress are Democrats.
How much in taxes have they avoided paying?
Link


kenwheaton.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-01 01:43:57 AM

The Larch: I want it to be true, but it probably isn't true.


Yeah. Reid is just putting some heat on him. It's probably something embarrassing in his returns, but I don't think Mitt would run for president if he had paid no taxes.
 
2012-08-01 01:47:08 AM

God-is-a-Taco: "His poor father must be so embarrassed about his son,"

Romney sucks and he would be terrible for the world, but that quote is a bit too much.



Harry Reid suddenly develops a spine.
 
2012-08-01 01:47:11 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: The Larch: I want it to be true, but it probably isn't true.

Yeah. Reid is just putting some heat on him. It's probably something embarrassing in his returns, but I don't think Mitt would run for president if he had paid no taxes.


Sure he would. Especially if he thought he could get by without anyone knowing it (which he clearly thinks he can).
 
2012-08-01 01:50:28 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: The Larch: I want it to be true, but it probably isn't true.

Yeah. Reid is just putting some heat on him. It's probably something embarrassing in his returns, but I don't think Mitt would run for president if he had paid no taxes.


I can't recall a single instance of Harry Reid bluffing or exaggerating . Harry Reid has spent decades earning a reputation for calm understatement.
 
2012-08-01 01:52:18 AM
You know you're a biatch if Harry Reid can slap you around.
 
2012-08-01 01:53:40 AM

Nadie_AZ: But I'll ask: if he paid no taxes, why didn't he create far more jobs than anybody else?


He did. In China and India.
 
2012-08-01 01:53:40 AM

Ambivalence: Sure he would. Especially if he thought he could get by without anyone knowing it (which he clearly thinks he can).



New precedents were set by Palin in 2008 regarding how many secrets a politician running for major office can keep. Palin never gave a single open press conference during her campaign. She never released her medical records. And she got away with it, and successfully turned Republican voters against the news media.

So Rmoney's going to play that card, ignoring the American press on his little tour of the UK and Israel, and openly telling them to go to hell in Poland today. He'll try to avoid taking clear positions on major issues, and he'll see how much of his business career he can keep a secret, while simultaneously touting his business experience as a reason we should vote for him.

I think what Reid did today was brilliant. Want to keep your financial dealings a secret from the American people? We'll just speculate wildly about what's in them, then.
 
2012-08-01 01:55:00 AM

Loucifer: You know you're a biatch if Harry Reid can slap you around.


doesn't even have to slap, just asking questions...
 
2012-08-01 02:04:01 AM
Wait, so is it he didn't pay taxes because all his income was tax sheltered(stock and whatnot) or he didn't pay taxes because he was protesting income tax being illegal? Steve Jobs $1 salary wasn't taxed either, but all those awesome options can have loans taken against them for more or less permanent income tax free.
 
2012-08-01 02:06:07 AM

Loucifer: You know you're a biatch if Harry Reid can slap you around.


From Wikipedia:

Reid's boyhood home had no indoor toilet, hot water or telephone. Searchlight had no high school, so Reid boarded with relatives 40 miles away in Henderson, Nevada, to attend Basic High School[1] where he played football, and was an amateur boxer
 
2012-08-01 02:10:51 AM

Loucifer: You know you're a biatch if Harry Reid can slap you around.


Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

Can you farking imagine what the right-wingers would be doing if the situation was reversed and Obama was refusing to disclose his tax returns?

It would be nuclear powered DERP to the power of infinity all day long until he released them.

Looking at the polls I'd say Romney has gotten off pretty light so far.
 
2012-08-01 02:13:18 AM

acefox1: Loucifer: You know you're a biatch if Harry Reid can slap you around.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

Can you farking imagine what the right-wingers would be doing if the situation was reversed and Obama was refusing to disclose his tax returns?

It would be nuclear powered DERP to the power of infinity all day long until he released them.

Looking at the polls I'd say Romney has gotten off pretty light so far.


What, you mean Conservatives have a double-standard when it comes to their own candidates? Surely you jest?
 
2012-08-01 02:14:00 AM
Mitt Romney covered the expenses incurred with disposal of the body of the girl Glenn Beck may have raped and murdered in 1990. We know this because he deducted them on page 147 of his 1991 tax returns.
 
2012-08-01 02:23:54 AM

NewportBarGuy: Mitt Romney covered the expenses incurred with disposal of the body of the girl Glenn Beck may have raped and murdered in 1990. We know this because he deducted them on page 147 of his 1991 tax returns.


he did it retroactively...
 
2012-08-01 02:25:05 AM

Notabunny: Nadie_AZ: But I'll ask: if he paid no taxes, why didn't he create far more jobs than anybody else?

He did. In China and India.


I noticed he paid taxes to those two countries as well.
 
2012-08-01 02:36:46 AM

FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.


It's hearsay bullshiat from Reid, but I really can't fathom what Romney is doing.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the DNC already has copies of them, probably from a disgruntled member of McCain's VP vetting squad.
 
2012-08-01 02:38:53 AM

Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?


GOPers went apeshiat back in 2009 when Obama nominated Geithner who had some tax issues. It will be fun to see how they spin their way out of Mitt not paying taxes for 10 years.
 
2012-08-01 02:41:03 AM

Bucky Katt: Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?

GOPers went apeshiat back in 2009 when Obama nominated Geithner who had some tax issues. It will be fun to see how they spin their way out of Mitt not paying taxes for 10 years.


Not paying taxes (D): bad
Not paying taxes (R): good
 
2012-08-01 02:41:25 AM

Nadie_AZ: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

If this is true, Romney is beyond toast when he finally does release his Tax Returns. Well, for everyone but Team GOP. They'll love him more.

But I'll ask: if he paid no taxes, why didn't he create far more jobs than anybody else?


He did. In China.
 
2012-08-01 02:45:17 AM

FlashHarry: Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?

this is what i don't get. and it's amazing he's gotten this far.

but he did release them to the mccain campaign when they were vetting him for veep - and they picked palin. that should tell you everything you need to know.


To be fair, all it tells me is that Palin looks better in a skirt than Romney.
 
2012-08-01 02:50:13 AM

Bladel: Considering how much mileage they are getting out of the "you didn't build that" lie, the Dems might as well go ahead and run with this.

And if it isn't true, well Mitt can always release his taxes to prove them wrong....


Only as long as he releases his long form tax returns.
 
2012-08-01 03:02:51 AM

Loucifer: Asa Phelps: Three Crooked SquirrelsPersonally, I am disgusted by all the sleeze in politics, both sides, which is why I favor public funding of elections. But on the topic of Romney's returns, I don't think he did anything illegal. At least I doubt he did. There is the possibility of 2009 amnesty. But if that isn't in there, I think the reason he is hiding the returns is because he paid ridiculously low rates in certain years and they are afraid to have a discussion about tax fairness. They are afraid of ads saying "in 2008, Mitt Romney was worth a quarter of a billion dollars and paid a 2.4% tax rate. What did you pay in 2008?"

I am disgusted by all the sleeze in big business. Which is why i favor disclosure by Romney.


You're making a pretty bold statement here.


Very good! I LOL'd at a font joke!
 
2012-08-01 03:25:51 AM

JerseyTim: I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.


I will still stick with the "took advantage of amnesty for illegal offshore accounts".
 
2012-08-01 03:31:20 AM

Ambivalence: He still probably thinks people won't care enough for it to matter. and maybe for some that's true, but it is still several months until election and this kind of thing can erode his support. How can people trust a man who keeps these kinds of secrets?


Actually, if there is nothing wrong with his taxes, it's a massive win to keep the Democrats focused on them, and then release them in mid-October when ... SURPRISE ... there is no there there.

But I genuinely believe that he simply doesn't want to stoke a conversation about how little the rich pay "as required by law" when still making a stupendously big income. Most people make income by selling their labor. This income is taxed at a certain rate, depending on the rate of pay they get (those who make more, pay a higher percentage)

But what if you don't work? What if you live off the salted away proceeds of past years? What if you lend your money to others and get a return on it? Should you pay less? For doing less work and making more money? Especially if they have the ability to induce the kind of extreme risk-taking that killed the economy ... in order that they might NOT work and still enjoy a high quality of life?
 
2012-08-01 03:37:27 AM

Sabyen91: JerseyTim: I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.

I will still stick with the "took advantage of amnesty for illegal offshore accounts".


I am sticking with "all of the above".
 
2012-08-01 03:38:55 AM

downpaymentblues: Sabyen91: JerseyTim: I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.

I will still stick with the "took advantage of amnesty for illegal offshore accounts".

I am sticking with "all of the above".


Yeah, you are probably right.
 
2012-08-01 03:40:54 AM

rubi_con_man: Actually, if there is nothing wrong with his taxes, it's a massive win to keep the Democrats focused on them, and then release them in mid-October when ... SURPRISE ... there is no there there.



Rmoney gave away his motivation for not releasing his returns when he talked about his fear that the Democrats would twist and distort their contents for political gain. There is definitely some red meat in there. I also think that since he was getting a savage beat-down over Bain two weeks ago, releasing his returns then would have been like dumping jet fuel onto the fire.

What Reid did today was great. Hold Rmoney's feet to the fire if he wants to keep things from the American people.
 
2012-08-01 03:44:11 AM

Sabyen91: JerseyTim: I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.

I will still stick with the "took advantage of amnesty for illegal offshore accounts".


Both of THESE.

I understand that the GOP have given Mitt "his turn" here and don't really expect him to win but even with that understood they couldn't have picked a worse candidate to oppose Obama on the issues of both taxes and healthcare.

WTF were they thinking?

/Yeah, it's the down ticket races being bought with post CU cash that will be the real story this election.
 
2012-08-01 03:44:29 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Yeah. Reid is just putting some heat on him. It's probably something embarrassing in his returns, but I don't think Mitt would run for president if he had paid no taxes.


See, the problem here is that you are too attached to reality. In reality, a guy not paying his taxes would be a bad candidate for president and a man like that would have the common sense not to run.

But these are Republicans we're talking about.
 
2012-08-01 03:58:52 AM

Lsherm: Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.


Yeah, that's a pretty safe bet:

i1240.photobucket.com

Source
 
2012-08-01 04:07:10 AM

rubi_con_man: Ambivalence: He still probably thinks people won't care enough for it to matter. and maybe for some that's true, but it is still several months until election and this kind of thing can erode his support. How can people trust a man who keeps these kinds of secrets?

Actually, if there is nothing wrong with his taxes, it's a massive win to keep the Democrats focused on them, and then release them in mid-October when ... SURPRISE ... there is no there there.


That's not how American's work though is it? I don't remember the %s, but a depressing number of Americans still think that Obama's a Muslim, Saddam caused 9/11 or that there was WMD in Iraq. Admittedly those people are Romney's base, but there's got to be some dipshiat undecided voters that Romney would be more able to court if they hadn't spent 3 months thinking he's paid zero taxes or something.
 
2012-08-01 04:23:10 AM

Harry_Seldon: Is it possible for private citizen Romney to be impeached before the election?


Impeaching is for people who have paid taxes.

i172.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-01 04:31:55 AM

ArmednHammered: Yeah, whatever.
Seven of the top ten richest butt clowns in Congress are Democrats.
How much in taxes have they avoided paying?
Link


What information do you have to confirm that Romney is avoiding to pay taxes?
 
2012-08-01 04:35:01 AM

brianbankerus: He'll never release them. No way. Whatever it is is bad. So bad it makes this unending beating seem merciful.

I wonder if his campaign staff follow online comments. You know, to understand the independents. I hope they do and I hope it depresses them appropriately.


I hope they do (if they do their jobs they do)

And I hope while doing their jobs they realize they are selling this nation down the river. (a turn of phrase as appropriate to the 99% now as it ever was to anyone)

Hopefully the patriotic among them will jump ship and while doing so throw their morsels of incriminating truth to us like so many Palin staffers.
 
2012-08-01 05:04:24 AM
Ok.....out with it...which one of you worthless farkers soid their soul to the devil to get Mitt Romney as the Republican challenger to Saint Obama? Good dang grief this guy is just getting stinkier and stinkier with every passing day.
 
2012-08-01 05:21:57 AM

Sabyen91: downpaymentblues: Sabyen91: JerseyTim: I'm also sticking with the "really, really undertithed" theory.

I will still stick with the "took advantage of amnesty for illegal offshore accounts".

I am sticking with "all of the above".

Yeah, you are probably right.


Aren't his tithes tax-deductible? Why would he undertithe?
 
2012-08-01 05:31:38 AM

sillydragon: walkingtall: Ok.....out with it...which one of you worthless farkers soid their soul to the devil to get Mitt Romney as the Republican challenger to Saint Obama? Good dang grief this guy is just getting stinkier and stinkier with every passing day.

Republicans are like that sometimes. Democrats too sometimes, though they seem to be the less outright evil of the two.

Did you ever manage to find those posts on Fark where you received death threats like you claimed? I'm curious to see whether you're full of shiat or not.


I'm sure he just forgot what alt(s) received the death threats. Makes everything a bit awkward.
 
2012-08-01 05:38:00 AM

Lsherm: czei: Sure, Mitt can release his tax returns, but then how do we know that they're *really* his tax returns? They could be easily faked, so maybe we should get some county Sheriff to look 'em over just to make sure.

Seriously, though, Romney doesn't need to release them, all it'll take is a question at the debates that brings up the subject, where either the moderator flat out asks each candidate how much they paid in taxes, or Obama says "I've paid 30% in taxes for decades", how about you?

Small point of correction, but Obama didn't pay 30%, either. I haven't gone through all of his tax returns, but he's still paying less than the average American. However, he's almost certainly paying more than Romney.


You are right, but it is important to note that Romney doesn't see a problem with this. Obama does, as do most people.
 
2012-08-01 05:54:54 AM

GWSuperfan: "When a man assumes public office he should consider himself public property"

~Thomas Jefferson


If anyone understood how to treat a man as property, it was Jefferson.

/14 year old girls, too
// the 5 children he fathered by that teenage slave, too
 
2012-08-01 06:00:17 AM

walkingtall: sillydragon: Great, well...examples? And no, assholes exist everywhere, even in my precious liberal world. And most of those don't sound like death threats, they just sound like someone thinks you should die

When someone writes and I quote "I cannot WAIT to throw you to the lions so you will know what real persectution is" or "You and your children and everyone that believes as you do are the cause of the world being crap and we should kill all of you to remove your beliefs from humanity" is both telling me I need to die as you say and a veiled threat that if I dont get in line someday the day will come when you will be killed. That is a threat. Im not sure what you would call it but you seem to want to use semantics to lessen what has been said to me. I dont care what you want to call it, it is wrong.


Those aren't actual death threats.

A death threat is something like "Mr. Johnson, I will kill you!"

You're thinking more along these lines...

farm2.staticflickr.com

And being a religious conservative is nothing to be proud of. It's practically a guarantee that you'll find yourself on the wrong side of history.

Learn the Beatitudes. Live them. There is nothing conservative about what the living Christ actually preached.
 
2012-08-01 06:13:42 AM

EnviroDude: so the leader of the Senate that gets his money from insider trading and favors from his contributors, the guy that has his sons working as lobbiests, the guy that made millions in real estate from political favors is attacking the rich guy for adhering to a tax code that is written by the Senate the leader heads. and democrats are outraged at Romney?


As someone that has never voted for a Republican/neocon/teabagger I can't believe I'm saying this, but I completely agree with you. I blame the system that allows the wealthy to cheat their country.
 
2012-08-01 06:15:02 AM

downpaymentblues: Loucifer: You know you're a biatch if Harry Reid can slap you around.

From Wikipedia:

Reid...was an amateur boxer


He's a big fan of MMA too, though partly because the UFC brings big $$$ to Vegas on the regular.

/Sanction it, NY!
//fark the culinary worker's union!!
 
2012-08-01 06:15:48 AM

kapaso: EnviroDude: so the leader of the Senate that gets his money from insider trading and favors from his contributors, the guy that has his sons working as lobbiests, the guy that made millions in real estate from political favors is attacking the rich guy for adhering to a tax code that is written by the Senate the leader heads. and democrats are outraged at Romney?

We don't know if Romney adhered to the tax code or not. I'm assuming not, otherwise he wouldn't be hiding his returns now would he?


Well, we do know Romney didn't pay anything in 2009. Republicans have told him to release another year or two and be done with it, to which he responded that doing so would sink his campaign.
 
2012-08-01 06:29:44 AM
I actually HATE that I'm saying this, but this is one time I would actually like Wikileaks to somehow get a hold of and release something.

/ugh I hate myself.
 
2012-08-01 06:36:03 AM

starsrift: Aren't his tithes tax-deductible? Why would he undertithe?


If he is hiding income, he is undertithing. He is "cheating" the church. He tithes 10% of what he reports. The tax deduction isn't that great compared to not reporting 100 million.
 
2012-08-01 06:46:06 AM
Good move on Reid's part. Romney's caught between a rock and a hard place. If he's hiding his finances because he used a tax loophole for ten years, he'll either release the info or be a liar. And if it's worse than not paying taxes, if it's something illegal, he'll be indicted while he's campaigning for president.

The latter is what I think is going on. I think there's something in there that may lead to charges and Romney's hoping to ride out the election without releasing the info. In fact, what if his entire motivation to become president is merely to put himself in a position to quash any investigation into his finances? It certainly would explain his complete lack of enthusiasm or finesse on the campaign trail. All he's doing is showing up for work and trying to gain access to the shredder.
 
2012-08-01 06:48:49 AM

Nabb1: Headline reminded me of this:

[i2.photobucket.com image 320x280]

I can't blame them. I think if I were in the President's shoes, I would definitely want the election to be all about Romney's tax returns. Not that Romney's a real gem...


That's obvious. The last thing Obama wants to talk about is what he's accomplished over the last three and a half years.
 
2012-08-01 06:50:10 AM

Wendy's Chili: Mitt Romney kicked a nun in the teeth and then got a tax credit for shoe repair.


Mitt Romney sold poison milk to school kids! Tax credit!
 
2012-08-01 06:50:39 AM

shotglasss: The last thing Obama wants to talk about is what he's accomplished over the last three and a half years.


You might want to tell him that.
 
2012-08-01 06:52:15 AM

God-is-a-Taco: "His poor father must be so embarrassed about his son,"

Romney sucks and he would be terrible for the world, but that quote is a bit too much.


Agreed. His father wasn't poor.
 
2012-08-01 06:54:44 AM

thamike: Good move on Reid's part. Romney's caught between a rock and a hard place. If he's hiding his finances because he used a tax loophole for ten years, he'll either release the info or be a liar. And if it's worse than not paying taxes, if it's something illegal, he'll be indicted while he's campaigning for president.

The latter is what I think is going on. I think there's something in there that may lead to charges and Romney's hoping to ride out the election without releasing the info. In fact, what if his entire motivation to become president is merely to put himself in a position to quash any investigation into his finances? It certainly would explain his complete lack of enthusiasm or finesse on the campaign trail. All he's doing is showing up for work and trying to gain access to the shredder.


Romney is a very bad candidate and there is nobody else worth a damn out there for the Republicans to rally around. Or even simply decent people who want to find a decent leader. There isnt anyone. So four more years of Obama with no reelection to hold him back. He even might get a super majority in Congress again if Romney keeps messing up as badly as he has been he is going to take all the incumbent Republican senators down with him. This is going to be a sad time. Far far reaching expansions of government power. More and more debt. More and more waste and corruption. 10-20% unemployment. Another recession. Maybe a depression. Hard times are a coming boys and girls. The rich are already jumping ship like rats leaving a sinking ship. Liberalism will rule the halls of power for the next 4 years. Unopposed and unchecked.
 
2012-08-01 06:55:25 AM

God-is-a-Taco: "His poor father must be so embarrassed about his son,"

Romney sucks and he would be terrible for the world, but that quote is a bit too much.


Yeah, Reid should have gotten one of his aides to say it. Mitt would respect that.
 
2012-08-01 06:57:43 AM

walkingtall: This is going to be a sad time. Far far reaching expansions of government power. More and more debt. More and more waste and corruption. 10-20% unemployment. Another recession. Maybe a depression. Hard times are a coming boys and girls. The rich are already jumping ship like rats leaving a sinking ship. Liberalism will rule the halls of power for the next 4 years. Unopposed and unchecked


It won't be a sad time for me, or even you. You will have to try extra hard to find things to whinge about this time around, if you don't want to sound twice as ridiculous as you do now.
 
2012-08-01 07:04:59 AM
Nothing like a lie to get Romney's successful foreign relationship trip out of the news cycle.

Desperate times for Democrats are desperate, so it seems.
 
2012-08-01 07:06:24 AM

snowshovel: Nothing like a lie to get Romney's successful foreign relationship trip out of the news cycle.


Successful? (spittake)
 
2012-08-01 07:06:39 AM

EnviroDude: so the leader of the Senate that gets his money from insider trading and favors from his contributors, the guy that has his sons working as lobbiests, the guy that made millions in real estate from political favors is attacking the rich guy for adhering to a tax code that is written by the Senate the leader heads. and democrats are outraged at Romney?


Both sides are bad, so vote Rmoney?

You sound tired.
 
2012-08-01 07:06:48 AM

walkingtall: The rich are already jumping ship like rats leaving a sinking ship.


Wow, hook, line and sinker.

They saw you coming from across the street, didn't they?
 
2012-08-01 07:08:38 AM
I think everybody is being really limiting here. I think there are LOTS of shadiness in his tax returns.

Swiss bank account amnesty? - THERE
Obscenely low tax rates? - THERE
Zero taxes paid in some years? - THERE
Cayman and Bermuda tax shelters? - ALL THERE

If the campaign only had to deal with one of these things, the political fallout would probably be manageable. Combined, it tells a devastating story that plays perfectly into the Obama narrative of a wealthy sleaze screwing the rest of us.

Those returns will never see the light of day.
 
2012-08-01 07:10:21 AM

thamike: It won't be a sad time for me, or even you. You will have to try extra hard to find things to whinge about this time around, if you don't want to sound twice as ridiculous as you do now.


I hope you are right. I do love this country and if a liberal had good ideas for making things better more power to them. I am not against liberalism per se. I am diametrically opposed to progressive views but not real liberalism. The problem is that the people you farkers are supporting are not looking to try and make the country better. Simply better for them. So we might move from stratification due to economic forces to stratification due to political forces but that is about all that will change. Trade business corruption and graft for political corruption and graft. With us paying for it with oppressive taxes. And the rich STILL wont have to pay. They will simply leave the country. If there can be another outcome to our current course I sure as heck wish someone would come forward and make some suggestions. Liberal or conservative. I dont really care.
 
2012-08-01 07:17:40 AM
So Harry claimes that an unnamed "Bain Investor" goes says that Mitt hasn't paid taxes for ten years, as if he had any way of knowing that, and you people think THAT is more likely than Harry just wanting to make someone look bad?

/ This better damn well not be true. If this is true and it didnt come out in the primary, Republicans just suck.
 
2012-08-01 07:21:16 AM

ArmednHammered: Yeah, whatever.
Seven of the top ten richest butt clowns in Congress are Democrats.
How much in taxes have they avoided paying?
Link


tu quoque
 
2012-08-01 07:21:32 AM

Riothamus: I'm hoping that walkingtall is just a troll at this point. If not, wow.

We'd have to triple the Department of Education's funding immediately.



Oh good grief. I made a mistake. I didn't think my point through clearly. If I was perfect I wouldn't be arguing on fark at 7:30 in the morning. I certainly would not have lived the life I have lived. I do stupid things. I say stupid things in stupid ways. I have been known to be very very wrong about things. And since I am on a forum of perfect people I guess my mistakes stand out more glaringly then most but hey Im doing my best here.
 
2012-08-01 07:28:42 AM

MisterRonbo: walkingtall:

I never thought I would actually experience history being revised right in front of me. When they death threats and extreme hyperbole are thrown at me and I call them out on it everyone just shrugs and states everyone is just joking.

And yet, after being asked over and over and over, you cannot provide a single example.

Quite the persecution complex you've got going there. Do you take the things you post seriously, I only ask because then there would be one person who does.


Trolling Rule #7: If you get called out on your bullshiat, ignore the posts. The offending question didn't get asked if you don't acknowledge it's existence!
 
2012-08-01 07:35:09 AM
fark it, I'm willing to see Ron Paul at this point get the nod on the convention floor just to see this farking Arthur Miller tragedy play out to its better end, with Romney eating a bullet after being used up like fruit, crying "My God, why don't they like me?"
 
2012-08-01 07:40:47 AM

I sound fat: / This better damn well not be true. If this is true and it didn't come out in the primary, Republicans just suck.


Any GOP challenger to Mitt who even tried to bring up any of this stuff up during that derpy nom process would have immediately been labelled a OWS-loving RINO who had fallen for the left's "class warfare" rhetoric.

Search your heart and see the truth of this.

Besides that pack of pathetic asshats couldn't even get traction with the "Ya know guys, maybe Romney isn't the best person in the world to get to make the Repeal Obamacare" argument.

Diagonal: His red herring has been taken out back to the smokehouse as well.

/tasty


Mmmm, smoked fish flesh.

"Smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast!"

I dearly hope that guy is just trolling and doesn't actually think like that.
 
2012-08-01 07:43:29 AM

quatchi: I dearly hope that guy is just trolling and doesn't actually think like that.


Think like what? I am curious what you think I believe that makes me so abhorrent. This should be entertaining. Please have at it. Let me have it with both barrels.
 
2012-08-01 07:46:55 AM
When Harry Reid's balls have dropped on a subject, it's a pretty safe bet there's a good chance he's right or knows he'll never be proven wrong. The guy simply doesn't take risks.

This is the second time in a week or so he's said something like this. Either he really knows this to be true, and he really knows Romney will never ever release his taxes so he can't be proven wrong.

Either way...I'm OK with this.
 
2012-08-01 07:54:20 AM

Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?


If I were president I could make a lot more money?
 
2012-08-01 07:56:48 AM
Here's what I love so much about this - it's the Birther argument thrown back in their faces.

Reid has made a claim he can't possible substantiate (Romney's taxes were born in Kenya, or something like that) and that anyone in Romney's inner circle will deny. That denial will produce a chorus of, "Well, you have the proof. You could shut us up forever about this. All you have to do is release the documents we're asking for..."

And then Romney will poop in his magic underwear.
 
2012-08-01 08:01:17 AM
i981.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-01 08:01:20 AM
We know Mitt was involved in illegal tax shelters as a director at Marriott. My guess is that he had to enter into a voluntary disclosure agreement in 2009 as a result of the 2009 release of information by the Swiss government, revealing that he owned Swiss bank account that was never reported in order to avoid potential prison time. Its just a guess, but the timing fits and it fits his personality as a known tax cheat.
 
2012-08-01 08:02:40 AM

Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?


Um, probably: Money comes FIRST. Everything else after.
 
2012-08-01 08:08:03 AM
He's hiding something that's worse for his campaign than taking the heat for not releasing them, at any rate...

I'll bet not paying any taxes is the least of it.
 
2012-08-01 08:08:18 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: So, Ron Paul at the convention, eh?



I'm holding out for the Newtster. I want to ehar more about his moonbase colonies. Maybe they can protect us from Marvin MArtian.
 
2012-08-01 08:08:22 AM

Quasar: A month or so ago, he said, a person who had invested with Bain Capital called his office.

"Harry, he didn't pay any taxes for 10 years," Reid recounted the person as saying.

"He didn't pay taxes for 10 years! Now, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain," said Reid. "But obviously he can't release those tax returns. How would it look?

Well if that's not an airtight allegation I don't know what is.


Romney can easily refute it.
 
2012-08-01 08:10:39 AM

Hobodeluxe: walkingtall: Bypasssec: Absolutely correct! CHRIST as you refer to it is a convenient McGuffon for the Religious™ retards to rally around.

And so it begins......

actually he's right. the "Christ" of Republicans is nothing like the Christ in the Bible.

Jesus preached tolerance,humility,to help the poor,the sick,to pay your taxes and that worshiping mammon was a sin.

This idea of a prosperity gospel,of huge opulent temples in which to display your piety to be seen by man,to shun the poor,the sick and to judge others is an apostasy. And is exactly the type of false prophecy that the Bible warns against.


The greatest trick the devil ever pulled wasn't convincing the world that he didn't exist.

Oh no.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing Evangelical Christians that he was God.

www.thepaincomics.com
 
2012-08-01 08:18:44 AM

FlashHarry: this is what i don't get. and it's amazing he's gotten this far.


Clearly it's because he's a hard worker.
 
2012-08-01 08:19:24 AM

Sqrxz: Dinki: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

And why shouldn't he? The GOP knows that our main stream media have the attention span of a 3 year old with ADD. They know that by the time the debates come around this issue will be so old that it won't even come up.

Our media organizations are a pathetic joke.

Pathetic joke = publishing this comment from Reid that could have been completely fabricated and treating it like it could be more than halfway true. Yes, Romney hasn't released his taxes, and that raises suspicion, but have some discretion about what you publish. If John Boehner tomorrow says that he heard from a source in the White House that President Obama has cheated on his wife, should that be reported as NEWS? No. There must be a distinction between OPINIONS, which are fine to disseminate, and FALSE ("evidence not needed because obvious or we want to believe") "FACTS".

Informed opinions and facts are for news. False "facts" are for tabloids. MSM is no longer news but a tabloid with news on page 4.


It would absolutely be news if Boehner said he heard Obama cheated on his wife. If Boehner couldn't bring forward any evidence or witnesses, that accusation would be the end of his political career.
 
2012-08-01 08:23:08 AM

I sound fat: So Harry claimes that an unnamed "Bain Investor" goes says that Mitt hasn't paid taxes for ten years, as if he had any way of knowing that, and you people think THAT is more likely than Harry just wanting to make someone look bad?

/ This better damn well not be true. If this is true and it didnt come out in the primary, Republicans just suck.


There's an easy way for Romney to prove him wrong.
 
2012-08-01 08:23:35 AM
I am waiting for the commercial to come out with average citizens holding up their taxes and making the statement "I paid my share and I am not afraid to show it!" and then another "I paid my share and I am not afraid to show it!" and another "I paid my share and I am not afraid to show it!" with A scroll across the bottom of the screen. "why does Rmoney refuse to show his tax returns?

This message brought to you by every American tax payer.

Seems obvious enough, fits in a 30 second sound bite and should drive home the message?
 
2012-08-01 08:25:12 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: If you idiots are done arguing with the poor, persecuted little troll...


Hey, it was an entertaining way to pass those dreary early morning hours. :)
 
2012-08-01 08:25:38 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: If you idiots are done arguing with the poor, persecuted little troll...


Oh, come on, it's fun! How often can I honestly brand someone as a heretic?

It's great to see Harry freaking Reid hand Mr. Money Tit his internal organs using birther tactics.

Even more, he's using birther tactics to raise questions on an actual goddamned relevant issue. I think Mr. Reid might be learning something.
 
2012-08-01 08:32:08 AM

Riothamus: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: If you idiots are done arguing with the poor, persecuted little troll...

Oh, come on, it's fun! How often can I honestly brand someone as a heretic?

It's great to see Harry freaking Reid hand Mr. Money Tit his internal organs using birther tactics.

Even more, he's using birther tactics to raise questions on an actual goddamned relevant issue. I think Mr. Reid might be learning something.


I find these kinds of unverifiable attacks distasteful, but it would be easy enough to disprove. Since Romney seems unwilling to provide the truth, He leaves himself open to any attack that anyone wants to make.

Romney donated $1 million to Planned Parenthood three years ago.
Romney had over a billion dollars, but game most of it to the Michigan Neo Nazis.
Romney claimed a male spouse in 2010.

We could have all sorts of fun.
 
2012-08-01 08:39:21 AM

GameSprocket: Riothamus: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: If you idiots are done arguing with the poor, persecuted little troll...

Oh, come on, it's fun! How often can I honestly brand someone as a heretic?

It's great to see Harry freaking Reid hand Mr. Money Tit his internal organs using birther tactics.

Even more, he's using birther tactics to raise questions on an actual goddamned relevant issue. I think Mr. Reid might be learning something.

I find these kinds of unverifiable attacks distasteful, but it would be easy enough to disprove. Since Romney seems unwilling to provide the truth, He leaves himself open to any attack that anyone wants to make.

Romney donated $1 million to Planned Parenthood three years ago.
Romney had over a billion dollars, but game most of it to the Michigan Neo Nazis.
Romney claimed a male spouse in 2010.

We could have all sorts of fun.


Oh please, those are all verifiable due to the tax returns. You can shut those down immediately.

Here's an example of an unverifiable true birther-style attack.


"I heard from a reliable source that leveraged buyouts involve a ritual known as 'sealing the deal' wherein the CEO of the dominant company performs oral sex on the CEO from the captured company as a means of equalizing humiliation. As CEO of Bain Capital, Mitt Romney may have 'sealed the deal' on dozens of occasions. So far he hasn't denied performing oral sex on other men...."
 
2012-08-01 08:43:58 AM

Byn: I doubt Reid believes it himself, but damn if it's not a really good way to force Mitt to prove that he's wrong.

Well played, Harry. Well played.


Well thats how liberals work.

They shout lies about republicans.

Sad ain't it.
 
2012-08-01 08:45:04 AM
The missing Olympic records, the computers in MA, Bain and not-Bain, and inadequate tax records.

Obama will just easily paint Romney as secretive and untrustworthy in October.
 
2012-08-01 08:46:03 AM
Harry Reid? Why would we listen to anything this corrupt child molester says?
 
2012-08-01 08:48:48 AM

brianbankerus: He'll never release them. No way. Whatever it is is bad. So bad it makes this unending beating seem merciful.

I wonder if his campaign staff follow online comments. You know, to understand the independents. I hope they do and I hope it depresses them appropriately.


Kinda like Obama's college records?
 
2012-08-01 08:48:49 AM
Romney took a $77,000 deduction on his 2010 tax return for the care and feeding of his dancing horse.

He somehow made his horse a business expense.

Does this mean I could have claimed all that money spent on ALPO for my dog?

teensleuth.com
 
2012-08-01 08:50:32 AM
www.irunoninsulin.com


Serious question: Is there really ANY chance Romney can run the entire campaign and not turn over more tax returns? I mean, even many REPUBLICANS seem to be asking for them.

If he simply folds his arms and says "No! You're not the boss of me!" does he really have ANY chance?

www.irunoninsulin.com
 
2012-08-01 08:51:09 AM

TIKIMAN87: Byn: I doubt Reid believes it himself, but damn if it's not a really good way to force Mitt to prove that he's wrong.

Well played, Harry. Well played.

Well thats how liberals work.

They shout lies about republicans.

Sad ain't it.


Only one way to prove it's a lie.
 
2012-08-01 08:52:41 AM

Dimensio: As you are an established serial liar, nothing that you say is credible.


Oh goody Dimensio is here. Good to see you buddy. . I have missed you so much. And like I always say I dont lie. I have lied and I will probably lie again. I am a sinner like anyone else but I dont as a rule lie. You will do what you always do. You will make outrageous claims agains me. Take what I write completely out of context and do your best to make me look like the fool that you believe me to be. And you will lie. Oh you will lie. And all the while you think if you scream and yell and call me names then you win the argument. So here we go. What have you got to say today?
 
2012-08-01 08:53:15 AM

Nome de Plume: brianbankerus: He'll never release them. No way. Whatever it is is bad. So bad it makes this unending beating seem merciful.

I wonder if his campaign staff follow online comments. You know, to understand the independents. I hope they do and I hope it depresses them appropriately.

Kinda like Obama's college records?


Or his birth certificate?
 
2012-08-01 08:54:53 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: TIKIMAN87: Byn: I doubt Reid believes it himself, but damn if it's not a really good way to force Mitt to prove that he's wrong.

Well played, Harry. Well played.

Well thats how liberals work.

They shout lies about republicans.

Sad ain't it.

Only one way to prove it's a lie.


I have been informed that until President Obama releases microfilm of his birth certificate, his school transcripts from kindergarten to college, his complete medical history, his mother's complete medical history and a copy of a passport issued by Pakistan (why President Obama should have a passport issued by Pakistan was never explained despite numerous inquiries), his request for Romney to release tax returns for the previous ten years is entirely unreasonable and hypocritical.
 
2012-08-01 08:57:06 AM

shower_in_my_socks: And at least you CAN go through his tax returns, since he's release 10+ years of them.


Obama's been a public figure for the last 10 years, so his personal finances are available via a FOIA request, amirite?
 
2012-08-01 09:01:49 AM
i512.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-01 09:09:11 AM
whoa, we got some serious internet business going on in this thread.
 
2012-08-01 09:15:28 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: TIKIMAN87: Byn: I doubt Reid believes it himself, but damn if it's not a really good way to force Mitt to prove that he's wrong.

Well played, Harry. Well played.

Well thats how liberals work.

They shout lies about republicans.

Sad ain't it.

Only one way to prove it's a lie.


So anyone can make a claim against anyone and they are required to prove it's a lie?

Obviously that's all Obama and the liberals have this November. That is the lowest of the low... Then again I would not have expected anymore looking back on Obamas record. There is nothing Reid or Obama can run on besides pull lie out of their asses. Thats how liberalism works. They are cowards.
 
2012-08-01 09:17:32 AM
Harry Reid knows a guy who heard a rumor about a candidate's taxes. SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING.
 
2012-08-01 09:18:18 AM
Funny, when they did this to Obama it was "all he has to do is show the birth certificate," and that was for an abnormal request

Romney is refusing to do something that presidents have done for years.

WHAR TAX RETURNS WHAR

All he has to do is show them!
 
2012-08-01 09:19:00 AM
FTFA: The highest ranked Democrat in Congress, Reid is known more as a back room brawler than a public flamethrower.

{citation needed}
 
2012-08-01 09:23:14 AM

Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: The highest ranked Democrat in Congress, Reid is known more as a back room brawler than a public flamethrower.

{citation needed}


The first rule of Harry Reid is that you don't talk about Harry Reid.
 
2012-08-01 09:24:17 AM
This discussion is nice, but.... where are Romney's tax returns? If he didn't do anything wrong, there's a simple way to fix this.
 
2012-08-01 09:27:19 AM

Brandyelf: This discussion is nice, but.... where are Romney's tax returns? If he didn't do anything wrong, there's a simple way to fix this.


Well, he has them, but they're written on golden plates.

And he's not allowed to show them to anyone else.

But he'll tell you exactly what's in them.

Trust him.
 
2012-08-01 09:27:24 AM

Grungehamster: SwingingJohnson: Romney took a $77,000 deduction on his 2010 tax return for the care and feeding of his dancing horse.

He somehow made his horse a business expense.

Does this mean I could have claimed all that money spent on ALPO for my dog?

Is your dog prepping for Westminster? I understand the criticism of his horse to paint him as elitest, but if the horse is genuinely trained for competition or show (barrel racing, dressage, etc.; even a circus act counts) then it either generates income or has a chance of doing so, making it a business expense.

I do think the "attacks on the horse are attacks on my wife and her disease" response was even more ridiculous though.


What kind of income can the horse generate to be a business tax deduction?

There is no cash prize in the Olympics. Those horses don't get contracts to have their photos on a box of Wheaties or get Nike contracts.

If a horse wins any prize money it is pretty much a gamble that the animal will win any purse. It's not a race horse. How can you justify that as a legitimate business deduction?

If I use my dog to guard my junk yard... is that dog and his care and feeding now worth a tax deduction? At least my dog would have a real business related job.

dorrys.com
 
2012-08-01 09:30:09 AM
Being on the wrong side of history is EXACTLY what Christ preached. Christ was the epitome of "wrong side of history" You simply fail to realize that everything He said went against the prevailing culture of the time.


someone has a brain problem...

/also, if someone threatens with lions over the internet, try not to freak out too much. You'll come off looking silly mentally ill.
 
2012-08-01 09:30:21 AM

Brandyelf: This discussion is nice, but.... where are Romney's tax returns? If he didn't do anything wrong, there's a simple way to fix this.


Right? I mean, it worked for Oba----wait a minute....

OK, so maybe Birthers still farked that chicken all the way down to the subatomic level after the birth certificate was released. Whatever

Obama released the document the idiot Birthers wanted. Most politicians released several years of their tax records, almost certainly every other candidate has except for Mitt Romney.

It is crystal clear that Romney has something to hide.
 
2012-08-01 09:30:50 AM

Grungehamster: SwingingJohnson: Romney took a $77,000 deduction on his 2010 tax return for the care and feeding of his dancing horse.

He somehow made his horse a business expense.

Does this mean I could have claimed all that money spent on ALPO for my dog?

Is your dog prepping for Westminster? I understand the criticism of his horse to paint him as elitest, but if the horse is genuinely trained for competition or show (barrel racing, dressage, etc.; even a circus act counts) then it either generates income or has a chance of doing so, making it a business expense.

I do think the "attacks on the horse are attacks on my wife and her disease" response was even more ridiculous though.


Oh yeah... that's another thing.

He said he got the horse as therapy for his wife. So that's a $77K business tax deduction now?
 
2012-08-01 09:31:13 AM
There's only one course of action, if Mitt Romney wants to prove Senator Reid wrong.
 
2012-08-01 09:31:38 AM

SwingingJohnson: What kind of income can the horse generate to be a business tax deduction?


The horse wasn't 'deducted'. It's considered a passive activity, and listed as losses which can ONLY be used against future earnings from passive activities. Their amount of income that was actually written off in the one released tax return was $50.

If they win $77k as a purse in a dancing horse competition, they can write that off. If they find a bag with $77k on the street, they can't write that off.

SwingingJohnson: If I use my dog to guard my junk yard... is that dog and his care and feeding now worth a tax deduction?


Most likely.
 
2012-08-01 09:31:50 AM

TIKIMAN87: So anyone can make a claim against anyone and they are required to prove it's a lie?

Obviously that's all Obama and the liberals have this November. That is the lowest of the low... Then again I would not have expected anymore looking back on Obamas record. There is nothing Reid or Obama can run on besides pull lie out of their asses. Thats how liberalism works. They are cowards.


How pathetic that your boys just spent the past 4 years yelling about the President being a foreign born Muslim usurper and calling for him to release his birth certificate with no proof of their claims, yet you can actually pull this kind of hypocritical statement regarding Romney's tax returns. The mental gymnastics you must be pulling in that head of yours would definitely help us get another gold in London.
 
2012-08-01 09:33:38 AM
It is funny to see Reid "Fox News" somebody.

Is Mitt a dirty tax cheat who kicks cute little puppies? I'm not saying he is... I'm just asking questions!
 
2012-08-01 09:36:20 AM

Xetal: It is funny to see Reid "Fox News" somebody.

Is Mitt a dirty tax cheat who kicks cute little puppies? I'm not saying he is... I'm just asking questions!


I would like to see that become a thing: He was totally "foxed newsed" on that issue.
 
2012-08-01 09:37:25 AM

JerseyTim: I don't trust Harry Reid not to have gotten played here.


There is only one way to find out if he has been played...
 
2012-08-01 09:39:42 AM
I'm not saying that Harry Reid has been involved in shady land deals where he used his power and influence to make a killing...

No wait, I am saying that because its true.
 
2012-08-01 09:41:00 AM

mainstreet62: Brandyelf: This discussion is nice, but.... where are Romney's tax returns? If he didn't do anything wrong, there's a simple way to fix this.

Right? I mean, it worked for Oba----wait a minute....

OK, so maybe Birthers still farked that chicken all the way down to the subatomic level after the birth certificate was released. Whatever

Obama released the document the idiot Birthers wanted. Most politicians released several years of their tax records, almost certainly every other candidate has except for Mitt Romney.

It is crystal clear that Romney has something to hide.


The key difference between Obama's birth certificate and Romney's tax returns is that withholding his birth certificate for so long actually helped Obama. It sent the teabaggers into a frenzy, alienating moderates and independents who almost universally thought the whole thing was a ridiculous sideshow.

Romney, OTOH, is going to be burned badly for not releasing his returns. Obama will set the narrative that he's a rich empty suit, who was only successful because he was born into wealth and the rules didn't apply to him. Refusing to disclose the same documents that everybody else has disclosed for decades will play into that narrative.

Of course, without knowing what's in the returns, it's impossible to say whether this is a smart move. If he really didn't pay taxes for ten years, that would be a good reason to withhold them, even knowing all the heat he's going to take.
 
2012-08-01 09:42:18 AM

randomjsa: I'm not saying that Harry Reid has been involved in shady land deals where he used his power and influence to make a killing...

No wait, I am saying that because its true.


So true that you'd only be too happy to cite the shady deals you're referring to, correct?
 
2012-08-01 09:44:09 AM

imontheinternet: mainstreet62: Brandyelf: This discussion is nice, but.... where are Romney's tax returns? If he didn't do anything wrong, there's a simple way to fix this.

Right? I mean, it worked for Oba----wait a minute....

OK, so maybe Birthers still farked that chicken all the way down to the subatomic level after the birth certificate was released. Whatever

Obama released the document the idiot Birthers wanted. Most politicians released several years of their tax records, almost certainly every other candidate has except for Mitt Romney.

It is crystal clear that Romney has something to hide.

The key difference between Obama's birth certificate and Romney's tax returns is that withholding his birth certificate for so long actually helped Obama. It sent the teabaggers into a frenzy, alienating moderates and independents who almost universally thought the whole thing was a ridiculous sideshow.

Romney, OTOH, is going to be burned badly for not releasing his returns. Obama will set the narrative that he's a rich empty suit, who was only successful because he was born into wealth and the rules didn't apply to him. Refusing to disclose the same documents that everybody else has disclosed for decades will play into that narrative.

Of course, without knowing what's in the returns, it's impossible to say whether this is a smart move. If he really didn't pay taxes for ten years, that would be a good reason to withhold them, even knowing all the heat he's going to take.


Completely agree. There is zero political advantage in withholding tax returns, but holding that birth certificate for so long was a master stroke, especially since 1 week later Obama issued the order that took out Osama Bin Laden. Those 2 events stacked nicely.
 
2012-08-01 09:45:23 AM

Epoch_Zero: randomjsa: I'm not saying that Harry Reid has been involved in shady land deals where he used his power and influence to make a killing...

No wait, I am saying that because its true.

So true that you'd only be too happy to cite the shady deals you're referring to, correct?


Their way to shady to cite, stupid lib.
 
2012-08-01 09:45:45 AM

InvertedB: TIKIMAN87: So anyone can make a claim against anyone and they are required to prove it's a lie?

Obviously that's all Obama and the liberals have this November. That is the lowest of the low... Then again I would not have expected anymore looking back on Obamas record. There is nothing Reid or Obama can run on besides pull lie out of their asses. Thats how liberalism works. They are cowards.

How pathetic that your boys just spent the past 4 years yelling about the President being a foreign born Muslim usurper and calling for him to release his birth certificate with no proof of their claims, yet you can actually pull this kind of hypocritical statement regarding Romney's tax returns. The mental gymnastics you must be pulling in that head of yours would definitely help us get another gold in London.


You're just mad that your liar in cheif will lose in November.
 
2012-08-01 09:46:49 AM

mainstreet62: There is zero political advantage in withholding tax returns, but holding that birth certificate for so long was a master stroke, especially since 1 week later Obama issued the order that took out Osama Bin Laden. Those 2 events stacked nicely.


It was shorter than that. IIRC, he released the birth certificate on a Friday, had the press corps dinner over the weekend where he roasted Trump for an hour, then announced bin Laden's death on Monday.
 
2012-08-01 09:46:51 AM

FlashHarry:
Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?

this is what i don't get. and it's amazing he's gotten this far.


american-freedom-league-voters-consumers-union.org

Look who his competition was.
 
2012-08-01 09:50:48 AM

Sqrxz: Dinki: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

And why shouldn't he? The GOP knows that our main stream media have the attention span of a 3 year old with ADD. They know that by the time the debates come around this issue will be so old that it won't even come up.

Our media organizations are a pathetic joke.

Pathetic joke = publishing this comment from Reid that could have been completely fabricated and treating it like it could be more than halfway true. Yes, Romney hasn't released his taxes, and that raises suspicion, but have some discretion about what you publish. If John Boehner tomorrow says that he heard from a source in the White House that President Obama has cheated on his wife, should that be reported as NEWS? No. There must be a distinction between OPINIONS, which are fine to disseminate, and FALSE ("evidence not needed because obvious or we want to believe") "FACTS".

Informed opinions and facts are for news. False "facts" are for tabloids. MSM is no longer news but a tabloid with news on page 4.


Yea, the MSM is full of it!

Good thing I watch Fox News, where I can get the *real* truth!

foxnewsboycott.com

vscdn.s3.amazonaws.com

slog.thestranger.com

i.ytimg.com

cdn.thedailybeast.com

static5.businessinsider.com

\IJS
 
2012-08-01 09:54:30 AM

bwilson27: FlashHarry:
Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?

this is what i don't get. and it's amazing he's gotten this far.


[american-freedom-league-voters-consumers-union.org image 676x456]

Look who his competition was.


Once upon a time, I thought it would be super lulzy to have Bachmann or Santorum as the nominee. I don't know if it could get any lulzier than Romney, though. His campaign up until now has been an utter disaster.
 
2012-08-01 09:56:31 AM
Unfounded accusations aren't as fun when they're leveled against your guy, eh GOP?
 
2012-08-01 09:56:49 AM
Now this, this is how you attack a candidate's weakness.

I don't believe Romney paid zero taxes, and it sounds like Reid doesn't either, but Mittens has been practically begging for this accusation by withholding his financial info. And he has no recourse except to release that info, because the longer this accusation goes unchallenged, the stronger it'll get.
 
2012-08-01 09:57:38 AM

downpaymentblues: Loucifer: You know you're a biatch if Harry Reid can slap you around.

From Wikipedia:

Reid's boyhood home had no indoor toilet, hot water or telephone. Searchlight had no high school, so Reid boarded with relatives 40 miles away in Henderson, Nevada, to attend Basic High School[1] where he played football, and was an amateur boxer


Not only that, but there's lots of radiation and ghouls everywhere.
 
2012-08-01 09:59:24 AM

FuturePastNow: Now this, this is how you attack a candidate's weakness.

I don't believe Romney paid zero taxes, and it sounds like Reid doesn't either, but Mittens has been practically begging for this accusation by withholding his financial info. And he has no recourse except to release that info, because the longer this accusation goes unchallenged, the stronger it'll get.


WHAR TAX RETRNS
RMONEY
WHAR
 
2012-08-01 10:02:40 AM

mainstreet62: Brandyelf: This discussion is nice, but.... where are Romney's tax returns? If he didn't do anything wrong, there's a simple way to fix this.

Right? I mean, it worked for Oba----wait a minute....

OK, so maybe Birthers still farked that chicken all the way down to the subatomic level after the birth certificate was released. Whatever

Obama released the document the idiot Birthers wanted. Most politicians released several years of their tax records, almost certainly every other candidate has except for Mitt Romney.

It is crystal clear that Romney has something to hide.


It's also crystal clear that at least one person in this thread does not want us to focus on the topic of Romney's tax returns and what might be in them. He must be doing well, since a lot of you are falling for it.

Romney's wife flat out said that things in there could (and would) be used by the left to make Romney look bad, and that they'd given "you people" all we needed to know. I disagree, I think we need to see more tax returns, specifically 2009.
 
2012-08-01 10:04:35 AM

MithrandirBooga: themindiswatching: None of the Fark conservatives are ironically (considering a lot of them are birthers) defending Romney on this? You guys are slipping.

Politics tab threads are usually never published this late in the evening. The GOP shills know the schedule and come swarming in only when they expect articles to be published. It's not like their handlers are going to pay them for 24/7 trolling after all, they're business-minded people concerned about the bottom line, and off-hours 'grassroots' trolling isn't financially viable to them.


The employed on fark (those you call the GOP shills) have jobs. Sorry we all can't be weaver living off the dole. There is no reason for Romney to release his returns. It is not required as a function of becoming president. It will only be used to attack him. The fact that liberals were so farking retarded with the SEC papers prove he was actively managing bain! shiat shows they have no understanding of the legalities of business. So there is no point. Fark liberals are especially farking stupid and would have no understanding of what is behind Romney's deductions. If he took even 10 dollars off because he bought a pen for business, he would be attacked. Yet the fark retard brigade didn't bat an eye when Obama used every legal tax deduction possible such as giving his kids money. It's a farking hypocritical stance, so releasing his tax documents would have no benefit and only add fire for the derp brigade.
I also love how the liberals in this thread are supporting Reid saying Romney's dead dad would be disappointed in his son, such a great and classy statement from Reid. It shows the level of discourse from the left.
 
2012-08-01 10:05:26 AM
I really want to see some journalists waving 1040 forms at Romney events.
 
2012-08-01 10:07:21 AM

Grungehamster: Romney was just trying to deflect the horse issue since horse riding is a treatment for MS some people do use. No clue if she actually rides or the treatment is prescribed to her, but the primary interest Anne Romney has in the horse appears to be because she's a fan of the sport and is involved in it as a financier for this horse's training by professionals.


Yup. It was nothing but an appeal to emotion and an attempt to paint it as a medical expense. That writing off $77k for dancing horses as a medical expense would be even stupider than writing them off as a business expense is just a hilarity cherry.

Grungehamster: Sprawl explained it pretty well; if you can qualify something as a business activity you can write off the costs generated by said activity. It's why small business owners who claim "I can't afford to pay taxes on my revenues if I am barely braking even with my costs" are full of it or are in serious need of tax advice.


I'm not sure if you mean this in terms of small business owners writing off their costs as business expenses or declaring them as passive activity losses. A small business owner wouldn't be able to list his expenses as a passive activity unless he didn't do shiat with the business other than collect a check and pay the bills.
 
2012-08-01 10:08:01 AM

TIKIMAN87: InvertedB: TIKIMAN87: So anyone can make a claim against anyone and they are required to prove it's a lie?

Obviously that's all Obama and the liberals have this November. That is the lowest of the low... Then again I would not have expected anymore looking back on Obamas record. There is nothing Reid or Obama can run on besides pull lie out of their asses. Thats how liberalism works. They are cowards.

How pathetic that your boys just spent the past 4 years yelling about the President being a foreign born Muslim usurper and calling for him to release his birth certificate with no proof of their claims, yet you can actually pull this kind of hypocritical statement regarding Romney's tax returns. The mental gymnastics you must be pulling in that head of yours would definitely help us get another gold in London.

You're just mad that your liar in cheif will lose in November.


Now that's classic, a Romney supporter talking about how someone else is a liar!

LMFAO!
 
2012-08-01 10:08:37 AM

shotglasss: Nabb1: Headline reminded me of this:

[i2.photobucket.com image 320x280]

I can't blame them. I think if I were in the President's shoes, I would definitely want the election to be all about Romney's tax returns. Not that Romney's a real gem...

That's obvious. The last thing Obama wants to talk about is what he's accomplished over the last three and a half years.


Woops, meant to quote this not walkingtall.
 
2012-08-01 10:09:20 AM

Harry_Seldon: October Surprise:

Warren Buffet will come out and drop a bomb on Romney's dealings at Bain.


you mean poop, right? Warren Buffet will come out and poop on Romney's tax returns.
 
2012-08-01 10:11:00 AM

Graffito: Xetal: It is funny to see Reid "Fox News" somebody.

Is Mitt a dirty tax cheat who kicks cute little puppies? I'm not saying he is... I'm just asking questions!

I would like to see that become a thing: He was totally "foxed newsed" on that issue.


It's already kind of a thing, except it's referred to as a cavuto. The cavuto is the punctuation mark at the end of a headline like "Mitt Romney: Tax Evader?" or "Is Barack Obama Working To Destroy America?" Looking identical to a question mark, the cavuto is a useful tool in journalism to accuse someone of scandal and leave the audience to assume the charge is true (or at least assume that the argument has merit) without the host/writer ever actually making any allegation that would hurt the "journalist's" credibility.
 
2012-08-01 10:11:07 AM

Brandyelf: It's also crystal clear that at least one person in this thread does not want us to focus on the topic of Romney's tax returns and what might be in them. He must be doing well, since a lot of you are falling for it.


Point taken. In my defense I was bored.

Romney's wife flat out said that things in there could (and would) be used by the left to make Romney look bad, and that they'd given "you people" all we needed to know. I disagree, I think we need to see more tax returns, specifically 2009.

Dollars to donuts he took the tax dodger amnesty deal.
 
2012-08-01 10:11:56 AM
You pathetic losers can kiss Romney's ass. You are just jealous.
 
2012-08-01 10:13:25 AM
Romney may not be worried about people knowing what he hid from the government so much as his church knowing what he hid from them.
 
2012-08-01 10:14:39 AM

EngineerBoy: Here's my favorite quote from Reid in that article:

"We feel comfortable in the Senate. Where the problem is, is this: Because of the Citizens United decision, Karl Rove and the Republicans are looking forward to a breakfast the day after the election. They are going to assemble 17 angry old white men for breakfast, some of them will slobber in their food, some will have scrambled eggs, some will have oatmeal, their teeth are gone. But these 17 angry old white men will say, 'Hey, we just bought America. Wasn't so bad. We still have a whole lot of money left.'"

Well-spoken, sir...


Jesus. Karl Rove must be what democrat parents scare their children with at night.

Father speaking to daughter "Honey if you don't go to sleep right now I'll tell Karl Rove where we live" child screams " NO DADDY NO I LOVE YOU AND MOMMY!!!!" - cut sceen to Karl Rove waiting by a phone upward lighting with a gilded copy of citizens united behind him

I dont know any republicans that use James Carville as some sort of boogyman.

FFS and they say the republicans have a short memory - shouldn't Harry be pushing some sort of gun control bill or something?
 
2012-08-01 10:14:54 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Romney may not be worried about people knowing what he hid from the government so much as his church knowing what he hid from them.


The only thing Romney could be afraid of in this scenario is public condemnation by the LDS, and I don't think the LDS would publicly castigate their most powerful politician.
 
2012-08-01 10:15:07 AM

DaSwankOne: You pathetic losers can kiss Romney's ass. You are just jealous.


I don't care that he's got money. I'd just like to know how he got it and what he does with it.
 
2012-08-01 10:15:17 AM

FuturePastNow: Now this, this is how you attack a candidate's weakness.

I don't believe Romney paid zero taxes, and it sounds like Reid doesn't either, but Mittens has been practically begging for this accusation by withholding his financial info. And he has no recourse except to release that info, because the longer this accusation goes unchallenged, the stronger it'll get.


I'd say, in order of likelihood, what his past tax returns would reveal are:

1) Paying very low tax rates every year with maybe one year of a zero or negative tax rate.
2) IRS amnesty on a Swiss bank account.
3) Under-tithing the LDS Church.
4) Paying zero or negative tax rates every year.

I'm not sure which would be the most damaging...the first option clearly wouldn't be as bad as the fourth. But beyond that, it depends on the beholder.
 
2012-08-01 10:17:44 AM

urbangirl: You are free to believe what you like and base your actions on your beliefs. But you are NOT entitled to require me to conform MY actions to YOUR beliefs.


No problem. You are not required to get an abortion or a gay marriage. Why don't you let the rest of us make that decision for ourselves as well, instead of trying to force us to conform to your beliefs?
 
2012-08-01 10:20:04 AM

DaSwankOne: You pathetic losers can kiss Romney's ass. You are just jealous.


He's still not going to fark you.
 
2012-08-01 10:20:17 AM

Serious Black: I'd say, in order of likelihood, what his past tax returns would reveal are:

1) Paying very low tax rates every year with maybe one year of a zero or negative tax rate.
2) IRS amnesty on a Swiss bank account.
3) Under-tithing the LDS Church.
4) Paying zero or negative tax rates every year.

I'm not sure which would be the most damaging...the first option clearly wouldn't be as bad as the fourth. But beyond that, it depends on the beholder.


5) He was not living in his son's unfurnished basement when he voted for Scott Brown.
 
2012-08-01 10:20:20 AM

DaSwankOne: You pathetic losers can kiss Romney's ass. You are just jealous.


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-08-01 10:21:33 AM

Bladel: Nadie_AZ: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

If this is true, Romney is beyond toast when he finally does release his Tax Returns. Well, for everyone but Team GOP. They'll love him more.

But I'll ask: if he paid no taxes, why didn't he create far more jobs than anybody else?

And are you still allowed to biatch about taxes if your tax bill is zero?

And if you can't biatch about taxes, are you still a Republican?


So what your saying is you have to PAY taxes to be Republican? That's UnAmerican.
 
2012-08-01 10:23:26 AM

DaSwankOne: You pathetic losers can kiss Romney's ass. You are just jealous.


Yes, I spent yesterday evening crying into my port.
 
2012-08-01 10:26:30 AM

Serious Black: FuturePastNow: Now this, this is how you attack a candidate's weakness.

I don't believe Romney paid zero taxes, and it sounds like Reid doesn't either, but Mittens has been practically begging for this accusation by withholding his financial info. And he has no recourse except to release that info, because the longer this accusation goes unchallenged, the stronger it'll get.

I'd say, in order of likelihood, what his past tax returns would reveal are:

1) Paying very low tax rates every year with maybe one year of a zero or negative tax rate.
2) IRS amnesty on a Swiss bank account.
3) Under-tithing the LDS Church.
4) Paying zero or negative tax rates every year.

I'm not sure which would be the most damaging...the first option clearly wouldn't be as bad as the fourth. But beyond that, it depends on the beholder.


I don't think #3 will be that damaging, simply because America is a melting pot of religions and few people will care. That tithe may also be tax deductible, I'm not sure how that works. Donations are tax write offs, so I guess technically the tithe would be similar.

If #3 played a large part in #1 or #4, I wouldn't really have an issue with any of those.

#2 would likely be the biggest problem.
 
2012-08-01 10:27:31 AM

MurphyMurphy: mrEdude: EXACTLY.

He buys up American companies, trashes them to make a buck, puts people out of work...

then takes his cash and siphons it out of the USA without even paying a fair share to the country he pretends to love.


The fact this turd is running for president is farking scary. He's the ENEMY.

Most the voting populace just doesn't care.

They do not, and will never, look past whatever letter is next to their name.
They are straight ticket and damn proud of it.

There is only one way Obama can lose. And he may very well lose. That is when (out of regular voters) all the (R)s faithfully show up to vote and only 80% of the (D)s do.

GO VOTE

OR THAT SMARMY TAX DODGING BILLIONAIRE (worth 250mil? yeah, ok...) IS GOING TO BE YOUR NEXT PRESIDENT

AND JUST LIKE BUSH, HE'LL LOCK US IN A NEW WAR TO SECURE THE 2ND TERM


Those assholes vote straight party with no reguard for the actual candidates!

Vote for our guy no matter how uninspired you are to stop them!
 
2012-08-01 10:36:15 AM

mainstreet62: Serious Black: FuturePastNow: Now this, this is how you attack a candidate's weakness.

I don't believe Romney paid zero taxes, and it sounds like Reid doesn't either, but Mittens has been practically begging for this accusation by withholding his financial info. And he has no recourse except to release that info, because the longer this accusation goes unchallenged, the stronger it'll get.

I'd say, in order of likelihood, what his past tax returns would reveal are:

1) Paying very low tax rates every year with maybe one year of a zero or negative tax rate.
2) IRS amnesty on a Swiss bank account.
3) Under-tithing the LDS Church.
4) Paying zero or negative tax rates every year.

I'm not sure which would be the most damaging...the first option clearly wouldn't be as bad as the fourth. But beyond that, it depends on the beholder.

I don't think #3 will be that damaging, simply because America is a melting pot of religions and few people will care. That tithe may also be tax deductible, I'm not sure how that works. Donations are tax write offs, so I guess technically the tithe would be similar.

If #3 played a large part in #1 or #4, I wouldn't really have an issue with any of those.

#2 would likely be the biggest problem.


From my limited understanding of the LDS #2 would be earth shattering within the Church. Either an excommunication of the Romneys or a mess exodus of members.

It could also lead to leaks within the LDS. This Mass. businessman/failed Senate candidate with no sporting event experience was given the 2002 Olympics gig. Was it Mormon Affirmative Action to fluff Mitt Romney's resume for future campaigns?
 
2012-08-01 10:36:33 AM

quatchi: Brandyelf: It's also crystal clear that at least one person in this thread does not want us to focus on the topic of Romney's tax returns and what might be in them. He must be doing well, since a lot of you are falling for it.

Point taken. In my defense I was bored.

Romney's wife flat out said that things in there could (and would) be used by the left to make Romney look bad, and that they'd given "you people" all we needed to know. I disagree, I think we need to see more tax returns, specifically 2009.

Dollars to donuts he took the tax dodger amnesty deal.


I can relate to the whole "being bored" thing. I can even relate to the temptation to argue the relative value of one belief system when compared to another.

What I cannot relate to is someone running for president based almost solely on his business and financial dealings (oh and his "anglo saxon" background) who absolutely refuses to show details on his business dealings (When did he really leave Bain? How many jobs did he outsource? Where are the documents from the Olympics?) or his financial dealings ("We've given 'you people' all you need to know").

So basically, he's running on a combination of "I'm whiter than that guy" and "trust me".
 
2012-08-01 10:37:06 AM
Accidentally posted this in a health care thread... :)

Let's just make a law that every President, member of Congress, and Supreme Court Justice -- and their spouses -- as well as every person running for such offices (or in the case of SCOTUS, nominated) has to provide tax returns for the previous dozen years. Then going forward, all such returns would be released to the public after being accepted to the IRS.

Then we can pay attention to something else.
 
2012-08-01 10:39:29 AM

bootman: From my limited understanding of the LDS #2 would be earth shattering within the Church. Either an excommunication of the Romneys or a mess exodus of members.

It could also lead to leaks within the LDS. This Mass. businessman/failed Senate candidate with no sporting event experience was given the 2002 Olympics gig. Was it Mormon Affirmative Action to fluff Mitt Romney's resume for future campaigns?


Derp, I meant #3...

/Derp
 
2012-08-01 10:41:40 AM

Aar1012: fusillade762: The Romney campaign's press secretary, Andrea Saul, has previously denied rumors that Romney didn't pay "any taxes at all."

Oh, I'm sure at some point he bought a pack of gum of something and paid sales tax on it.

No, I bet he drove (or had an aide drive) to New Hampshire to avoid sales tax.


Legit question: If New Hampshire doesn't have an income or sales tax, how do they pay for stuff?

/Michigan has 4.35% income + 6% sales, and they're still broke.
 
2012-08-01 10:48:18 AM

meyerkev: Aar1012: fusillade762: The Romney campaign's press secretary, Andrea Saul, has previously denied rumors that Romney didn't pay "any taxes at all."

Oh, I'm sure at some point he bought a pack of gum of something and paid sales tax on it.

No, I bet he drove (or had an aide drive) to New Hampshire to avoid sales tax.

Legit question: If New Hampshire doesn't have an income or sales tax, how do they pay for stuff?

/Michigan has 4.35% income + 6% sales, and they're still broke.


They've got a dozen other taxes, just not income or sales. There's capital gains, called the "Interest and Dividend Tax", a "Business Profits Tax" and a "Business Enterprise Tax", a statewide property tax on top of local property taxes...

Source: http://www.revenue.nh.gov/faq/gti-rev.htm
 
2012-08-01 10:50:29 AM

Brandyelf: What I cannot relate to is someone running for president based almost solely on his business and financial dealings (oh and his "anglo saxon" background) who absolutely refuses to show details on his business dealings (When did he really leave Bain? How many jobs did he outsource? Where are the documents from the Olympics?) or his financial dealings ("We've given 'you people' all you need to know").


Precisely, "Vote for me because Bain, Olympics, Governor" but whenever people try to actually look into his records in details he stonewalls.

So basically, he's running on a combination of "I'm whiter than that guy" and "trust me".

He truly is the 'Anybody But Obama' candidate.

He's basically John Kerry only without all the charisma ...or record of honorable public service ...or class.
 
2012-08-01 10:58:36 AM
Clearly, this is just Harry Reid's way of diverting attention from stories that Harry Reid is a pederast. In fact, that was a #1 trending Twitter topic last night. Astonishing that Reid has done nothing to address these serious allegations, especially if they're unfounded. I mean, even if there's no proof that Harry Reid is a pederast, given the gravity of the charges, it would only be reasonable for him to release his FBI records to establish that there's nothing to the suggestion that Harry Reid is a pederast. Why is Harry Reid running away from the suggestion that Harry Reid is a pederast? What's he hiding, exactly? And until he does something to squelch these rumors that Harry Reid is a pederast, what's a safe distance to keep him away from our children?
 
2012-08-01 10:58:39 AM

DaSwankOne: You pathetic losers can kiss Romney's ass. You are just jealous.


Yup. Jealous of the sweet, sweet hair, his bevy of cosplaying Patrick Batemans he calls "sons", his 70k horse and, of course, his car elevator.
 
2012-08-01 11:03:25 AM
And Obama is using an illegal SS number and has no legal birth certificate. And won't release any records pertaining to his past. The pot calling the kettle black.......
 
2012-08-01 11:03:57 AM
Yeah, it's not like this trick hasn't worked for the entire Right Wing, why doesn't someone on the Left get to take a crack at it once in awhile?
 
2012-08-01 11:07:11 AM

tony41454: And Obama is using an illegal SS number and has no legal birth certificate. And won't release any records pertaining to his past. The pot calling the kettle black.......


Except for the 12 years of tax returns he has released. Oh, and his birth certificate. But you're right, that's exactly like Mitt Romney hiding the fact that he's guilty of tax fraud and under-tithing by not releasing an equivalent amount of information.
 
2012-08-01 11:10:01 AM

qorkfiend: meyerkev: Aar1012: fusillade762: The Romney campaign's press secretary, Andrea Saul, has previously denied rumors that Romney didn't pay "any taxes at all."

Oh, I'm sure at some point he bought a pack of gum of something and paid sales tax on it.

No, I bet he drove (or had an aide drive) to New Hampshire to avoid sales tax.

Legit question: If New Hampshire doesn't have an income or sales tax, how do they pay for stuff?

/Michigan has 4.35% income + 6% sales, and they're still broke.

They've got a dozen other taxes, just not income or sales. There's capital gains, called the "Interest and Dividend Tax", a "Business Profits Tax" and a "Business Enterprise Tax", a statewide property tax on top of local property taxes...

Source: http://www.revenue.nh.gov/faq/gti-rev.htm


Ok, so they're ignoring the poor and (largely) middle class, and hitting businesses and the wealthy. Depending on the rates involved, I'm OK with that.

/Is still surprised they don't throw a sales tax on during leaf season. That's what sales tax is for. Screwing over tourists.
 
2012-08-01 11:10:32 AM

tony41454: And Obama is using an illegal SS number and has no legal birth certificate.


Please substantiate your accusations.
 
2012-08-01 11:11:26 AM

tony41454: And Obama is using an illegal SS number and has no legal birth certificate. And won't release any records pertaining to his past. The pot calling the kettle black.......


You sound so very very tired.
 
2012-08-01 11:12:23 AM

Dimensio: tony41454: And Obama is using an illegal SS number and has no legal birth certificate.

Please substantiate your accusations.


Joe Arpaio said so, and if we cannot trust the Toughest Sheriff in America™, who can we trust?
 
2012-08-01 11:13:09 AM

meyerkev: /Is still surprised they don't throw a sales tax on during leaf season. That's what sales tax is for. Screwing over tourists.


Oh, they soak the tourists, all right. They call it the Meals and Rentals Tax: "A 9% tax is assessed upon patrons of hotels and restaurants, on rooms and meals costing $.36 or more. A 9% tax is also assessed on motor vehicle rentals and campsites."

I was wrong on the property tax thing, though; it's a state-wide property tax only, it's just collected by the municipalities.
 
2012-08-01 11:13:15 AM

SwingingJohnson: Romney took a $77,000 deduction on his 2010 tax return for the care and feeding of his dancing horse.

He somehow made his horse a business expense.




i865.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-01 11:13:16 AM

MyRandomName: The employed on fark (those you call the GOP shills) have jobs. Sorry we all can't be weaver living off the dole.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-01 11:14:48 AM

Zerochance: Joe Arpaio said so, and if we cannot trust the Toughest Sheriff in America™, who can we trust?


Anyone else.
 
2012-08-01 11:21:01 AM

RadioAaron: No one I know is even remotely excited about Mitt Romney. Not one. And I know a LOT of conservatives.

Most who say they'll vote for him are doing so 'cuz he's not sekrit black kenyin muslin soshulist.


Most I know who are voting for him are in the corporate world, aren't racist and don't give a shiat about social issues. They are voting purely out of self-interest for their business and I can't say I blame them.
 
2012-08-01 11:24:23 AM

Snarfangel: Accidentally posted this in a health care thread... :)

Let's just make a law that every President, member of Congress, and Supreme Court Justice -- and their spouses -- as well as every person running for such offices (or in the case of SCOTUS, nominated) has to provide tax returns for the previous dozen years. Then going forward, all such returns would be released to the public after being accepted to the IRS.

Then we can pay attention to something else.


IMO it would be hard to get a law passed like that.

However, it might be a good thing to require as a prerequisite for employment in a government position that writes or enacts tax laws that all feasible tax returns be public record, the previous five years made public on the date of candidacy.
 
2012-08-01 11:30:26 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: What will hurt Romney is a concrete example of the tax code allowing the ultrarich to legally pay low rates while at the same time, the ultrarich guy is complaining that taxes are too high
on the rich. That's a conversation they don't want to have.


Bears
Bears
Bears
 
2012-08-01 11:33:37 AM
It is always sad when people so grossly take Bible passages out of context and twist them to justify pretty much anything. If you take any topic. No matter how horrible or sick I can take a few verses out of context and make it look like God not only condones it but encourages it. The Bible is complicated and you have to look at the whole picture and put things in context. There are also many teachings about how slaves should obey their masters but Jesus proclaimed numerous times to be here to free us from slavery. To remove the shackles that held us. That slavery in any form was tyranny. So what was it? Does God like slavery. Heck he put the Jews in slavery for 400 years. That would seem to be a ringing endorsement of slavery. Ah, but its not quite that cut and dried is it? God loves us and doesnt want anyone in slavery to anything.

  
Slavery is still approved of in the New Testament:
 
    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.  (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
 
    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.  (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
 
    In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.
 
    The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it.  "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly.  Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."  (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
 
2012-08-01 11:35:14 AM

Dinki: And why shouldn't he? The GOP knows that our main stream media have the attention span of a 3 year old with ADD. They know that by the time the debates come around this issue will be so old that it won't even come up.


Don't be so sure. Obama's crew seems to at least be smart enough to be archiving all this material.
 
2012-08-01 11:42:32 AM

shower_in_my_socks: How can a guy who paid little-to-no taxes say the rich are still paying too much?


Because the government should be giving him money. Because jobs, or something.

/and no, that's not welfare. It's only welfare when poor people get money.
 
2012-08-01 11:43:27 AM

Epoch_Zero: Snarfangel: Accidentally posted this in a health care thread... :)

Let's just make a law that every President, member of Congress, and Supreme Court Justice -- and their spouses -- as well as every person running for such offices (or in the case of SCOTUS, nominated) has to provide tax returns for the previous dozen years. Then going forward, all such returns would be released to the public after being accepted to the IRS.

Then we can pay attention to something else.

IMO it would be hard to get a law passed like that.

However, it might be a good thing to require as a prerequisite for employment in a government position that writes or enacts tax laws that all feasible tax returns be public record, the previous five years made public on the date of candidacy.


What would be the practical advantage of that over the status quo? A few dollars collected in fines every now and then? The current setup has the advantage of being entirely voluntary. The candidate is totally in control of just how much information he or she is willing to disclose. It allows them to make their own decisions in shaping the image they present to the public. They can be open and transparent, they can appear that they are shady and are hiding something, or any point in between. The only thing that a candidate is forced to do under the current system, is live with the consequences of his or her decisions. And isn't that the whole point of an election any way, to judge the candidate as fit or unfit for the job based on the record of past decisions?
 
2012-08-01 12:19:57 PM

Serious Black: FuturePastNow: Now this, this is how you attack a candidate's weakness.

I don't believe Romney paid zero taxes, and it sounds like Reid doesn't either, but Mittens has been practically begging for this accusation by withholding his financial info. And he has no recourse except to release that info, because the longer this accusation goes unchallenged, the stronger it'll get.

I'd say, in order of likelihood, what his past tax returns would reveal are:

1) Paying very low tax rates every year with maybe one year of a zero or negative tax rate.
2) IRS amnesty on a Swiss bank account.
3) Under-tithing the LDS Church.
4) Paying zero or negative tax rates every year.

I'm not sure which would be the most damaging...the first option clearly wouldn't be as bad as the fourth. But beyond that, it depends on the beholder.


That's not a mutually-exclusive list, it could be more than one. In fact, I think #1 and #3 are a given. I'd give #2 a 50/50 chance of appearing. If I had to give odds on #4, I'd say maybe 5%. It's possible, but it would take some damn fine loopholes to get someone with Romney's personal income a zero tax rate.

Most Americans would yawn at the prospect of Romney under-tithing his church, but LDS has a profit drive that would make a Ferengi envious; they take that shiat seriously. Shorting them is probably an excommunicable offense. Since his dubious claim to moral values is the only thing Mitt has to run on, his campaign has to keep him in good standing with his church.
 
2012-08-01 12:46:02 PM
So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

Tax evasion is another thing entirely.

/Real evasion, not legal deductions liberals love to spin into criminal tax evasion.
//Not supporting Romney or anything; just trying to cut through the bullsh*t.
 
2012-08-01 12:53:20 PM

Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

Tax evasion is another thing entirely.

/Real evasion, not legal deductions liberals love to spin into criminal tax evasion.
//Not supporting Romney or anything; just trying to cut through the bullsh*t.


Exactly, and it seems that this isn't clear. Probably ambiguous so people think he is doing something illegal
 
2012-08-01 12:55:46 PM

bhcompy: Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

Tax evasion is another thing entirely.

/Real evasion, not legal deductions liberals love to spin into criminal tax evasion.
//Not supporting Romney or anything; just trying to cut through the bullsh*t.

Exactly, and it seems that this isn't clear. Probably ambiguous so people think he is doing something illegal


Neither, really. People are just asking questions. Questions like "what's he hiding?"
 
2012-08-01 12:59:22 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: bhcompy: Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

Tax evasion is another thing entirely.

/Real evasion, not legal deductions liberals love to spin into criminal tax evasion.
//Not supporting Romney or anything; just trying to cut through the bullsh*t.

Exactly, and it seems that this isn't clear. Probably ambiguous so people think he is doing something illegal

Neither, really. People are just asking questions. Questions like "what's he hiding?"


So what question did Harry Reid ask when he ambiguously stated that an unnamed source said that Romney didn't pay his taxes? And then said "how do I know this is true?". And then paraphrased this conversation to the public.
 
2012-08-01 01:08:34 PM

bhcompy: Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

Tax evasion is another thing entirely.

/Real evasion, not legal deductions liberals love to spin into criminal tax evasion.
//Not supporting Romney or anything; just trying to cut through the bullsh*t.

Exactly, and it seems that this isn't clear. Probably ambiguous so people think he is doing something illegal


I wonder why anyone would think Romney is hiding something?
 
2012-08-01 01:14:53 PM

FuturePastNow: Serious Black: FuturePastNow: Now this, this is how you attack a candidate's weakness.

I don't believe Romney paid zero taxes, and it sounds like Reid doesn't either, but Mittens has been practically begging for this accusation by withholding his financial info. And he has no recourse except to release that info, because the longer this accusation goes unchallenged, the stronger it'll get.

I'd say, in order of likelihood, what his past tax returns would reveal are:

1) Paying very low tax rates every year with maybe one year of a zero or negative tax rate.
2) IRS amnesty on a Swiss bank account.
3) Under-tithing the LDS Church.
4) Paying zero or negative tax rates every year.

I'm not sure which would be the most damaging...the first option clearly wouldn't be as bad as the fourth. But beyond that, it depends on the beholder.

That's not a mutually-exclusive list, it could be more than one. In fact, I think #1 and #3 are a given. I'd give #2 a 50/50 chance of appearing. If I had to give odds on #4, I'd say maybe 5%. It's possible, but it would take some damn fine loopholes to get someone with Romney's personal income a zero tax rate.

Most Americans would yawn at the prospect of Romney under-tithing his church, but LDS has a profit drive that would make a Ferengi envious; they take that shiat seriously. Shorting them is probably an excommunicable offense. Since his dubious claim to moral values is the only thing Mitt has to run on, his campaign has to keep him in good standing with his church.


In his case, "excommunication" should read "losing his temple recommend."
 
2012-08-01 01:17:02 PM

shower_in_my_socks: rubi_con_man:

What Reid did today was great. Hold Rmoney's feet to the fire if he wants to keep things from the American people.


There's a strategy that I'm surprised no one has tried:

Why won't Romney release his tax returns to show us how successful Americans manage their finances? Why doesn't Romney want all Americans to learn from his example? Everyone would love to save $$$ on taxes! Everyone wants to be as successful as the 0.1%!
 
2012-08-01 01:25:10 PM

roadkillontheweb: I am waiting for the commercial to come out with average citizens holding up their taxes and making the statement "I paid my share and I am not afraid to show it!" and then another "I paid my share and I am not afraid to show it!" and another "I paid my share and I am not afraid to show it!" with A scroll across the bottom of the screen. "why does Rmoney refuse to show his tax returns?

This message brought to you by every American tax payer.

Seems obvious enough, fits in a 30 second sound bite and should drive home the message?


That or to show how many things require you to disclose more about your finances than Romney has done to run for the office of "leader of the free world".

I just bought a house. To get the mortgage (under $100K) I had to disclose: a) FOUR years of COMPLETE tax returns including W-2s and 1099s; b) several months of all back account records; c) current financial records for ALL investments, 401k/403b's, etc.; d) current pay stubs.

He feels entitled to document FAR less than ordinary citizens do for routine financial transactions.
 
2012-08-01 01:28:04 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The missing Olympic records, the computers in MA, Bain and not-Bain, and inadequate tax records.

Obama will just easily paint Romney as secretive and untrustworthy in October.


Add to that his state residency issues (was he a MA or UT resident when he ran for governor?; why did he vote in MA AFTER he sold his house and moved to NH using as an address a basement at one of his son's properties?)...
 
2012-08-01 01:30:55 PM

Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

Tax evasion is another thing entirely.

/Real evasion, not legal deductions liberals love to spin into criminal tax evasion.
//Not supporting Romney or anything; just trying to cut through the bullsh*t.


Charlie Rangel isn't running for President of the United States.
Harry Reid isn't running for President of the United States

//Strawman arguments make you look like a tool.
 
2012-08-01 02:20:10 PM

tony41454: And Obama is using an illegal SS number and has no legal birth certificate. And won't release any records pertaining to his past. The pot calling the kettle black.......


Can Sarah Palin automatically become President already?

I mean COME ON
 
2012-08-01 02:26:47 PM

Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.


"I'm just like you guys. I want to maximize my tax returns like all good Americans. Unlike most Americans, instead of using TurboTax or H&R Block, I use a team of Harvard-taught Tax Accountants that allow me to pay less taxes than you guys typically do, both in percentage and in real dollars. Don't blame me for being able to afford really skilled tax dodgers. Blame the Democrats for allowing me to do it. Please vote Republican in the fall. The tax loopholes for people like me will still be there - if anything, I'll make more of them. But at least Obama will be out of office."
 
2012-08-01 02:43:35 PM

Close2TheEdge: Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

Tax evasion is another thing entirely.

/Real evasion, not legal deductions liberals love to spin into criminal tax evasion.
//Not supporting Romney or anything; just trying to cut through the bullsh*t.

Charlie Rangel isn't running for President of the United States.
Harry Reid isn't running for President of the United States

// arguments make you look like a tool.


so if R-money released his returns and they showed that he was able to, through the use of various legal loopholes, end up with 0 tax liability, would everything be well and fine?

while I can't say I agree with being able to write off a $70k horse, if its allowable by the tax code can you really blame the guy for doing it?

I guess I don't understand why this has to be some pissing match over which candidate paid more taxes and is thereby a better American TM. If Romney commited tax fraud thats one thing, but if he was able to whittle his liability down to 0 by legal means, who is really at fault?

I'm not voting for the guy but I don't think paying 0 taxes is necessarily grounds for automatic disqualification. But without him releasing his returns, we might as well assume the worst.
 
2012-08-01 02:54:47 PM

Lando Lincoln: Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

"I'm just like you guys. I want to maximize my tax returns like all good Americans. Unlike most Americans, instead of using TurboTax or H&R Block, I use a team of Harvard-taught Tax Accountants that allow me to pay less taxes than you guys typically do, both in percentage and in real dollars. Don't blame me for being able to afford really skilled tax dodgers. Blame the Democrats for allowing me to do it. Please vote Republican in the fall. The tax loopholes for people like me will still be there - if anything, I'll make more of them. But at least Obama will be out of office."


Which is funny since Reagan closed tax loopholes as a means of raising taxes without raising taxes, and current Dems and Repubs have been formulating ways to do that since the debt debate hit a while back as a way to raise taxes without violating stupid tax pledges. So try not to act like Republicans are the party of tax loopholes.

ursomniac: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The missing Olympic records, the computers in MA, Bain and not-Bain, and inadequate tax records.

Obama will just easily paint Romney as secretive and untrustworthy in October.

Add to that his state residency issues (was he a MA or UT resident when he ran for governor?; why did he vote in MA AFTER he sold his house and moved to NH using as an address a basement at one of his son's properties?)...


And this is the same non-starter argument that was raised against Hillary when she ran in New York with questionable residency. It was a lame argument then and it's a lame argument now.
 
2012-08-01 03:28:40 PM

bhcompy: Which is funny since Reagan closed tax loopholes as a means of raising taxes without raising taxes, and current Dems and Repubs have been formulating ways to do that since the debt debate hit a while back as a way to raise taxes without violating stupid tax pledges. So try not to act like Republicans are the party of tax loopholes.


Both sides created tax loopholes that Romney used to their fullest, so vote Republican. Got it.
 
2012-08-01 03:30:30 PM

tony41454: And Obama is using an illegal SS number and has no legal birth certificate. And won't release any records pertaining to his past. The pot calling the kettle black.......


So go out of your way and post his real personal information, like you've repeatedly done to other Farkers you don't like and decided to stalk offsite. Or better yet, go back to campaigning for a lynch mob to storm the white house again, that was real fun the last time you did that.
 
2012-08-01 03:37:32 PM

Lando Lincoln:
Both sides created tax loopholes that Romney used to their fullest, so vote Republican. Got it.


Yep, I totally said vote Republican.
 
2012-08-01 03:42:10 PM

Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes?


Well, you can bet your ass he didn't use the standard deduction. That's like a glaring "Audit Me" checkbox
 
2012-08-01 03:46:12 PM

tony41454: And Obama is using an illegal SS number and has no legal birth certificate. And won't release any records pertaining to his past.


t0.gstatic.com
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect
 
2012-08-01 03:47:38 PM

TIKIMAN87: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: TIKIMAN87: Byn: I doubt Reid believes it himself, but damn if it's not a really good way to force Mitt to prove that he's wrong.

Well played, Harry. Well played.

Well thats how liberals work.

They shout lies about republicans.

Sad ain't it.

Only one way to prove it's a lie.

So anyone can make a claim against anyone and they are required to prove it's a lie?

Obviously that's all Obama and the liberals have this November. That is the lowest of the low... Then again I would not have expected anymore looking back on Obamas record. There is nothing Reid or Obama can run on besides pull lie out of their asses. Thats how liberalism works. They are cowards.


Weak troll or moron?

Obama is proud of his record. He's accomplished much, despite obstructionism.

Conservatives just make stuff up. Conservatives take their own shortcomings and project it on their opponents. Liberals are the fact-based crowd. Republicans have as a plank in their platform that they literally oppose critical thinking.

I hope you're a troll, because as a troll, you're not bad. As a plain ol' voter, you are disturbingly misinformed.
 
2012-08-01 04:14:56 PM

bhcompy: Lando Lincoln:
Both sides created tax loopholes that Romney used to their fullest, so vote Republican. Got it.

Yep, I totally said vote Republican.


You implied it.

"No, I didn't imply it. I was simply stating that both sides are bad."

Whatever.
 
2012-08-01 04:18:29 PM
chocolate covered poop:

I guess I don't understand why this has to be some pissing match over which candidate paid more taxes and is thereby a better American TM. If Romney commited tax fraud thats one thing, but if he was able to whittle his liability down to 0 by legal means, who is really at fault?

I'm not voting for the guy but I don't think paying 0 taxes is necessarily grounds for automatic disqualification. But without him releasing his returns, we might as well assume the worst.

It's not an immediate disqualification. And it shouldn't be, even if he did break the law. That's a separate issue from the actual election. But the man is auditioning for leader of the free world. It's perfectly reasonable for the public to demand to see this information and judge the man's character. Not paying taxes, even if legal, says a great deal about what kind of leader Mitt Romney would be.
 
2012-08-01 04:35:02 PM

brianbankerus: TIKIMAN87: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: TIKIMAN87: Byn: I doubt Reid believes it himself, but damn if it's not a really good way to force Mitt to prove that he's wrong.

Well played, Harry. Well played.

Well thats how liberals work.

They shout lies about republicans.

Sad ain't it.



Only one way to prove it's a lie.

So anyone can make a claim against anyone and they are required to prove it's a lie?

Obviously that's all Obama and the liberals have this November. That is the lowest of the low... Then again I would not have expected anymore looking back on Obamas record. There is nothing Reid or Obama can run on besides pull lie out of their asses. Thats how liberalism works. They are cowards.

Weak troll or moron?

Obama is proud of his record. He's accomplished much, despite obstructionism.

Conservatives just make stuff up. Conservatives take their own shortcomings and project it on their opponents. Liberals are the fact-based crowd. Republicans have as a plank in their platform that they literally oppose critical thinking.

I hope you're a troll, because as a troll, you're not bad. As a plain ol' voter, you are disturbingly misinformed.


If he is so proud of his record how come he never talks about it? All he talks about is raising taxes on the rich, which will solve NOTHING.

He is dividing the country.

He is a failure.
 
2012-08-01 05:06:43 PM

TIKIMAN87: If he is so proud of his record how come he never talks about it? All he talks about is raising taxes on the rich, which will solve NOTHING.

He is dividing the country.

He is a failure.


He talks about his accomplishments all the time. The commercials may be attack ads but the many hours a week of campaign speeches is all about what he's accomplished.

You sir, could benefit from some facts.
 
2012-08-01 05:07:31 PM

TIKIMAN87: If he is so proud of his record how come he never talks about it? All he talks about is raising taxes on the rich, which will solve NOTHING.


Unlike Romney's plan to raise taxes on everyone but the rich.
 
2012-08-01 05:27:03 PM

Lando Lincoln: bhcompy: Lando Lincoln:
Both sides created tax loopholes that Romney used to their fullest, so vote Republican. Got it.

Yep, I totally said vote Republican.

You implied it.

"No, I didn't imply it. I was simply stating that both sides are bad."

Whatever.


I think your reading comprehension skills need work.

"So try not to act like Republicans are the party of tax loopholes." != Vote Republican
 
2012-08-01 06:00:21 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: TIKIMAN87: If he is so proud of his record how come he never talks about it? All he talks about is raising taxes on the rich, which will solve NOTHING.

Unlike Romney's plan to raise taxes on everyone but the rich.


He has no plan to do that. But keep listening to NBC and ABC if it will help you sleep.
 
2012-08-01 06:04:44 PM

brianbankerus: TIKIMAN87: If he is so proud of his record how come he never talks about it? All he talks about is raising taxes on the rich, which will solve NOTHING.

He is dividing the country.

He is a failure.

He talks about his accomplishments all the time. The commercials may be attack ads but the many hours a week of campaign speeches is all about what he's accomplished.

You sir, could benefit from some facts.


LOL what does he talk about?

Passing Obama care that has 23 new taxes that will tax EVERYONE rich and poor? And it will now cost 2.3 trillion dollars.

How about breaking his promise to cut he deficit in half?

How about his class warfare? All he talks about is taxing the rich blah blah. He can't even say what he is going to do in his second term! he's a joke.
 
2012-08-01 06:12:45 PM

TIKIMAN87: Passing Obama care that has 23 new taxes that will tax EVERYONE rich and poor? And it will now cost 2.3 trillion dollars.


[citation needed]

TIKIMAN87: How about breaking his promise to cut he deficit in half?


Might have something to do with Bush leaving us a bigger recession than anybody thought, or Congress being a bunch of dysfunctional assbags that can't even get a budget together, let alone a balanced one. (let me save you some time and put in here "B-b-b-but BUSH! How dare you acknowledge that things happened before Obama took office, and my side was at fault!")

TIKIMAN87: How about his class warfare? All he talks about is taxing the rich blah blah. He can't even say what he is going to do in his second term! he's a joke.


Oh, hi.

And hi again.
 
2012-08-01 06:21:08 PM

HeartBurnKid: TIKIMAN87: Passing Obama care that has 23 new taxes that will tax EVERYONE rich and poor? And it will now cost 2.3 trillion dollars.

[citation needed]

TIKIMAN87: How about breaking his promise to cut he deficit in half?

Might have something to do with Bush leaving us a bigger recession than anybody thought, or Congress being a bunch of dysfunctional assbags that can't even get a budget together, let alone a balanced one. (let me save you some time and put in here "B-b-b-but BUSH! How dare you acknowledge that things happened before Obama took office, and my side was at fault!")

TIKIMAN87: How about his class warfare? All he talks about is taxing the rich blah blah. He can't even say what he is going to do in his second term! he's a joke.

Oh, hi.

And hi again.


Obama had a super majority for 2 farking years and they didn't bother to balance the budget. They had 2 years to do and pass whatever they wanted and the only thing they passed was Obamacare. Which was a mistake.
 
2012-08-01 06:32:34 PM
 
2012-08-01 07:45:01 PM

walkingtall: The problem is that the people you farkers are supporting are not looking to try and make the country better. Simply better for them.


I am not supporting Romney. And Obama hasn't earned any such scorn.
 
2012-08-01 08:04:38 PM
The same libtards that are 100% positive Romney must be hiding something, are the same people the are ok with Obama and Holder using executive privilege relating to Fast and Furious. And you wonder why you're called hypocrites.
 
2012-08-01 08:13:49 PM

Harry_Seldon: October Surprise:

Warren Buffet will come out and drop a bomb on Romney's dealings at Bain.


God, but that would be beautiful.
 
2012-08-01 08:15:31 PM

Stile4aly: Wendy's Chili: Mitt Romney kicked a nun in the teeth and then got a tax credit for shoe repair.

Mitt Romney shiat on my doorstep and then got a tax credit for toilet paper.


Mitt Romney dry-raped my dog and then got a tax credit for KY.
 
2012-08-01 09:43:57 PM

bhcompy: Lando Lincoln: Lernaeus: So, did Mitt Romney allegedly pay not taxes because of tax loopholes? If so, blame Charlie Rangel.

"I'm just like you guys. I want to maximize my tax returns like all good Americans. Unlike most Americans, instead of using TurboTax or H&R Block, I use a team of Harvard-taught Tax Accountants that allow me to pay less taxes than you guys typically do, both in percentage and in real dollars. Don't blame me for being able to afford really skilled tax dodgers. Blame the Democrats for allowing me to do it. Please vote Republican in the fall. The tax loopholes for people like me will still be there - if anything, I'll make more of them. But at least Obama will be out of office."

Which is funny since Reagan closed tax loopholes as a means of raising taxes without raising taxes, and current Dems and Repubs have been formulating ways to do that since the debt debate hit a while back as a way to raise taxes without violating stupid tax pledges. So try not to act like Republicans are the party of tax loopholes.

ursomniac: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The missing Olympic records, the computers in MA, Bain and not-Bain, and inadequate tax records.

Obama will just easily paint Romney as secretive and untrustworthy in October.

Add to that his state residency issues (was he a MA or UT resident when he ran for governor?; why did he vote in MA AFTER he sold his house and moved to NH using as an address a basement at one of his son's properties?)...

And this is the same non-starter argument that was raised against Hillary when she ran in New York with questionable residency. It was a lame argument then and it's a lame argument now.


Oh, this is an easy one...

Unlike the governorship of Massachusetts, the residency requirement to be a Senator doesn't have a time frame; one merely has to be a resident at the time of election. (The Clintons bought their house in Chappaqua over a year before the election, thus establishing a case for residency in NY.)

In Massachusetts, one has to be a resident for seven years before election as governor. Mitt's lawyers had to pull some fancy footwork before Massachusetts accepted his claim of residency, as he had claimed to be a resident of Utah to get a break on his property tax in 1999.

In short, not only is Mitt a quantum candidate in his political philosophy, but he's able to be a resident of two states at the same time.
 
2012-08-01 10:10:35 PM

Mearen: The same libtards that are 100% positive Romney must be hiding something, are the same people the are ok with Obama and Holder using executive privilege relating to Fast and Furious. And you wonder why you're called hypocrites.


Romney is hiding something. Even Romney knows that Romney's hiding something. "Refusing to disclose" is "hiding." You're the one attributing a negative connotation to "hiding" and/or "something." Why is this something being hidden? Is it because it is super great that Romney is waiting until the last minute to reveal to us? He's hiding thousands of boring financial statements that carefully unravel the soft silky petals of his integrity, is that it? Waiting for the right moment? I can't wait for the moment when Candidate Romney blasts the curtains wide and says, "See? HERE AM ME."
 
2012-08-01 10:43:01 PM

TIKIMAN87: Obama had a super majority for 2 farking years


Show me one day... one single day... that there were 60 Democrats in the Senate.
 
2012-08-01 10:58:39 PM

LibertyHiller: Oh, this is an easy one...

Unlike the governorship of Massachusetts, the residency requirement to be a Senator doesn't have a time frame; one merely has to be a resident at the time of election. (The Clintons bought their house in Chappaqua over a year before the election, thus establishing a case for residency in NY.)

In Massachusetts, one has to be a resident for seven years before election as governor. Mitt's lawyers had to pull some fancy footwork before Massachusetts accepted his claim of residency, as he had claimed to be a resident of Utah to get a break on his property tax in 1999.

In short, not only is Mitt a quantum candidate in his political philosophy, but he's able to be a resident of two states at the same time.


Which is funny since she was living at 1600 Penn. Ave at the time of the election
 
2012-08-01 11:04:43 PM

propasaurus: Also, Mitt gave McCain his returns up to 2008. Now, he's released only 2010, with a promise to release 2011 'when it's done.' So, what happened in 2009?


do you know what would be AWESOME? if someone in mccain's camp accidentally left rmoney's tax returns in the lobby of the NYT
LOL
 
2012-08-02 12:07:35 AM
I once had a Harry Reid, and then I discovered Nads.
 
2012-08-02 02:10:29 AM

bhcompy: LibertyHiller: Oh, this is an easy one...

Unlike the governorship of Massachusetts, the residency requirement to be a Senator doesn't have a time frame; one merely has to be a resident at the time of election. (The Clintons bought their house in Chappaqua over a year before the election, thus establishing a case for residency in NY.)

In Massachusetts, one has to be a resident for seven years before election as governor. Mitt's lawyers had to pull some fancy footwork before Massachusetts accepted his claim of residency, as he had claimed to be a resident of Utah to get a break on his property tax in 1999.

In short, not only is Mitt a quantum candidate in his political philosophy, but he's able to be a resident of two states at the same time.

Which is funny since she was living at 1600 Penn. Ave at the time of the election


Well, seeing as that's duty-related housing, it's considered a temporary residence.

Buying a home (particularly when it's the only residence owned) is going to carry a lot of weight even when it isn't prima facie evidence of an intent to reside permanently in a given jurisdiction. (I believe Cheney had to sell his house in Texas to be eligible under the 12th Amendment for the vice presidency.)

Career politicians have come under fire (Lugar and Santorum, for recent examples) for selling their home state residences and buying property in the DC area, without even renting a studio apartment back home for a figleaf of a residency claim. So, it's fair to call HRC a carpetbagger, but she at least made a significant effort to address the residency requirement.

Mitt, on the other hand, claimed Utah residency to save a lousy 50 grand on property taxes, and then got all retroactive about it when he wanted to run for office in Massachusetts. It says a lot about his character, IMHO.
 
2012-08-02 10:14:02 AM

Ambivalence: FlashHarry: whatever it is, clearly mittens thinks the political fallout for not releasing his returns is preferable to the fallout that would come from releasing them.

Either way, it's a darn interesting "no-win" situation from a guy who's essentially been running for president for YEARS. What the heck was he thinking?


As we are constantly reminded by you guys, there are more taxes than just the income tax. If Romneys tax records show that he paid no income tax during a period where his only income was from Capital Gain, then that would be a perfectly legal situation.....because thats how the law is written. It is also possible to earn interest income on investments and pay very little Capital Gains because you never take any money out of the market. If you let it ride.....the taxes just accumulate in the form of capital gains. If you then lose money at the end.....like when Obama got elected, its possible over ten years to wind up more or less exactly where you started. Again...perfectly legal.

I would guess however that what Romneys returns show is a steady increase in portfolio with modest sales of stock resulting in modest amounts of Capital Gains. The percentage paid is irrelevant to any rational discussion because it has to be measured against other factors. For instance our Public schools system locally brags that they have improved math proficiency test scores by 245% in the last ten years. That represents a change of 2% to 5% of the kids testing proficient at math at graduation. So maybe one year Romney pays 5% in taxes.....but its still a ton of money..... and the next year he makes less because the market is off, and pays 15% but its less revenue to the government because his earnings were less.

The only thing for sure is that Democrats will devise a way to explain it that fits into a 5 second sound bite and send it out to the clueless for repetition.
 
2012-08-02 10:22:50 AM

archichris: If Romneys tax records show that he paid no income tax during a period where his only income was from Capital Gain, then that would be a perfectly legal situation.....because thats how the law is written.


I don't think anybody's denying that. But for him to pay no taxes for years, and then turn around and say that the problem is that his cohort is getting taxed to death and we aren't pulling our weight, would be disgusting hypocrisy of the highest order.
 
2012-08-02 10:58:31 AM
The mere fact that Romney paid a low tax rate, or used tax loopholes should not be that much of a political hindrance. We can already see from what he's released that he does use loopholes to get a radically lower rate than many Americans. That didn't sink his campaign at all. The revelation that he paid even less in taxes in previous years, or even no taxes at all in some years, should likewise come as no real revelation. The Republican base will eat that up regardless, because who really cares about effective tax rates (unless it's a Democrat's tax rate).

There are only two things that I think would make him hesitate this long, and turn what should be a non-issue into something huge. Either he's worried about potential legal liability, or he's got something in there that could be political suicide.

Suppose Romney, or a shell corporation he owned shorted Bear Sterns 2 days before they crashed? Suppose he bought heavy into the real estate market and sold off at a conspicuously perfect time. Maybe he did nothing wrong and he's just that savvy, but the only real way to beat an investigation into things like that is to not let one get started in the first place. Romney would be willing to sacrifice the presidency to save himself from being the example the SEC makes in lieu of actually prosecuting the bankers who did truly atrocious things.

The other major possibility in my mind is that Romney sank a lot of money into organizations that are now political poison pills. What if it turns out he was a strong supporter of Planned Parenthood until it became the Republican whipping boy of the day? That revelation would cost him votes for sure. What if he went the other way, and helped bankroll an organization like The Family, who made it their mission to see homosexuals executed in Uganda? I don't think he could spin that positively.

In any event, whatever is in those returns is bad enough that Romney is willing to invite this sort of speculation rather than expose the reality. That reality could be pretty bad.
 
2012-08-02 02:34:20 PM

Nuuu: The mere fact that Romney paid a low tax rate, or used tax loopholes should not be that much of a political hindrance. We can already see from what he's released that he does use loopholes to get a radically lower rate than many Americans. That didn't sink his campaign at all. The revelation that he paid even less in taxes in previous years, or even no taxes at all in some years, should likewise come as no real revelation. The Republican base will eat that up regardless, because who really cares about effective tax rates (unless it's a Democrat's tax rate).

There are only two things that I think would make him hesitate this long, and turn what should be a non-issue into something huge. Either he's worried about potential legal liability, or he's got something in there that could be political suicide.

Suppose Romney, or a shell corporation he owned shorted Bear Sterns 2 days before they crashed? Suppose he bought heavy into the real estate market and sold off at a conspicuously perfect time. Maybe he did nothing wrong and he's just that savvy, but the only real way to beat an investigation into things like that is to not let one get started in the first place. Romney would be willing to sacrifice the presidency to save himself from being the example the SEC makes in lieu of actually prosecuting the bankers who did truly atrocious things.

The other major possibility in my mind is that Romney sank a lot of money into organizations that are now political poison pills. What if it turns out he was a strong supporter of Planned Parenthood until it became the Republican whipping boy of the day? That revelation would cost him votes for sure. What if he went the other way, and helped bankroll an organization like The Family, who made it their mission to see homosexuals executed in Uganda? I don't think he could spin that positively.

In any event, whatever is in those returns is bad enough that Romney is willing to invite this sort of speculation rather than ex ...


nother theory, he feels he lost already and stands to gain nothing by releasing them and is merely trolling the usa. It would also explain the boorish comments overseas defecating all ovetr the place to create a larger foriegn political headache for Obama's 2nd term.

just my own theory on it all, of course.
 
2012-08-03 06:04:35 PM

HeartBurnKid: archichris: If Romneys tax records show that he paid no income tax during a period where his only income was from Capital Gain, then that would be a perfectly legal situation.....because thats how the law is written.

I don't think anybody's denying that. But for him to pay no taxes for years, and then turn around and say that the problem is that his cohort is getting taxed to death and we aren't pulling our weight, would be disgusting hypocrisy of the highest order.


You can choose to believe that people who make tens of millions a year will someday actually have to pay that to the government. But in reality what they are all fighting over is the incomes of the people making between $200k and $2000k per year, mostly small business people and professionals. These people pay the largest percentage of taxes AFAIK. You can choose to believe that they are all wealthy and can afford to pay twice as much, but in reality most of them are living at the edge of their incomes....and any of them who own businesses are likely one year at best from disaster at any point in time.

Romney is not worried about paying taxes and no one at his income level is worried either. But you will notice that his income level is not being targeted without the incomes of people making $250k per year also being included. Thats the grand stupidity about Democrats. They will tell you that they are going after Romney, then they will write the laws to soak the middle class.

Write a tax law that takes 50% of everything you make over 10 million in a year and see what happens, lots of people will support it, and the net revenue will be almost nothing.

Obamas lying to you, but you are ok with that because you think the lie is being told to influence undecided and independant voters.....and secretly you believe that you wont pay any extra taxes no matter what.
 
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