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(South Florida News-Press)   Florida man stands his ground, shoots door-to-door salesman in the head "for effect"   (news-press.com) divider line 344
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15561 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jul 2012 at 10:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-31 12:56:16 PM

Pathman: Magorn: False analogy is false.

A car has a utlity to it that comes with some danger, as a society we've decided that the utility it provides outweighs its danger. A gun is a weapon. it has zero utltity other than the harming or taking of life.

and as a society we have decided that the utility of being allowed to arm ourselves outweigh the dangers. this nutbag and a few like him does not justify deciding otherwise.

50k people die on the roads every year. that's approaching over 125 people every day.
That is close to double the number of shooting deaths - and most of those are suicides.
The other half are mostly criminals.

Gun violence is a problem in this country. There is no denying it. However this guy is an anomaly and while what happened is an absolute tragedy he is not representative of the problem.


DO you not realize, given how many cars are in this country (254 million) and how many miles they are driven, on average daily (41) how INSANE it is that car death are ONLY double what gun deaths are in this country?

and your other numbers are wrong too. The majority of gun deaths and injuries in this country are suicides, this is followed closely by domestic violence incidents,, criminal uses, after that comes accidents, shot by police, and then finally there are an infetesmially small number of "good guy citizen shoots bad guy" incidents. In fact this number is so tiny that gun advocates are forced to create an imaginary category of "crimes prevented by using/showing a gun" incidents where a gun is displayed or used and the criminal scurries off and where police are never called and no one seeks treatment for thier injuries, so there are conveniently no records or proof that they ever actually happened.
 
2012-07-31 12:57:09 PM

Pathman: Thuull: Can't say I feel sorry for the guy at all. If someone does not want to be bothered, and they let you know that, then you do not bother them...whether they are a crazy irresponsible gun owner or not does not matter in the least. Salesman got what was coming to him.

then you are an asshole.

this guy was just trying to do his job and he ended up bleeding to death in some redneck's driveway.
Got what was coming to him? what a dipshiat


That's fine, I kind of am an asshole, at least about certain things.

Just because it is the guy's job does not give him the right to tread upon the rights of others. He learned that lesson the hard way.
 
2012-07-31 12:58:17 PM

As stated REPEATEDLY in thread you could farking wallpaper your yard in no tresspassing signs and it doesn;t mean a got-damn thing




It may not mean you have the right to kill someone, but it most definitely means something.
The salesmen didn't think it meant anything, either. I think he learned differently
 
2012-07-31 12:59:00 PM

Thuull: Magorn: Thuull: Crazy? yup. Irresponsible gun owner? Yup.

Does not want anyone on his property and goes out of his way to post three signs saying so? Yup.

Bad things happening to bad people who do bad things...crappy story all around. The salesman however was unwelcome, knew he was unwelcome, completely disregarded the property owner's well stated wishes for the sanctity of his property, and paid for it. Can't say I feel sorry for the guy at all. If someone does not want to be bothered, and they let you know that, then you do not bother them...whether they are a crazy irresponsible gun owner or not does not matter in the least. Salesman got what was coming to him.

wrong. Wrong WRONG WRONG!

As stated REPEATEDLY in thread you could farking wallpaper your yard in no tresspassing signs and it doesn;t mean a got-damn thing, particularly not to people who might have legitimate business contacting you, including postal carriers, meter readers and , yes DOOR to DOOR salesmen. Why? because a simple "no thank you" is sufficent to send the salesman on his way and our laws were written by rational people not anti-social lunatics. And in most places your front lawn conveys with a public access easement that lets people walk over the majority of it for any reason they want to, without, and i cannot stress this enough, you being allowed to shoot them.

His failure to have a lawyer vet the language of his posted signs for possible future court use does not (in any reasonable person's mind) indicate that he did not clearly communicate his wishes to have no-one on his property. It is very easy to arm-chair quarterback which signs he should have had, which y'all have done most admirably here in this thread.

I'll agree that postal carriers, meter readers and other officials who have valid official reasons to be on said property to carry out their assigned duties would be an exception to a private owners rights to the sanctity of his property...but can't agree with the premise ...


and none of these things even remotely justify the show of force that this idiot employed nor do they suggest that he "got what was coming to him" either.
 
2012-07-31 01:00:04 PM

Thuull: Pathman: Thuull: Can't say I feel sorry for the guy at all. If someone does not want to be bothered, and they let you know that, then you do not bother them...whether they are a crazy irresponsible gun owner or not does not matter in the least. Salesman got what was coming to him.

then you are an asshole.

this guy was just trying to do his job and he ended up bleeding to death in some redneck's driveway.
Got what was coming to him? what a dipshiat

That's fine, I kind of am an asshole, at least about certain things.

Just because it is the guy's job does not give him the right to tread upon the rights of others. He learned that lesson the hard way.


yeah - you don't have the right to park illegally either - but that doesn't mean "you got what was coming to you" if someone shoots you for it.
 
2012-07-31 01:00:47 PM

Thuull: Crazy? yup. Irresponsible gun owner? Yup.

Does not want anyone on his property and goes out of his way to post three signs saying so? Yup.

Bad things happening to bad people who do bad things...crappy story all around. The salesman however was unwelcome, knew he was unwelcome, completely disregarded the property owner's well stated wishes for the sanctity of his property, and paid for it. Can't say I feel sorry for the guy at all. If someone does not want to be bothered, and they let you know that, then you do not bother them...whether they are a crazy irresponsible gun owner or not does not matter in the least. Salesman got what was coming to him.


I realize you're trolling, but that doesn't make you sound like any less of a quivering twatwaffle.
 
2012-07-31 01:02:38 PM

Thuull: Magorn: Thuull: Crazy? yup. Irresponsible gun owner? Yup.

Does not want anyone on his property and goes out of his way to post three signs saying so? Yup.

Bad things happening to bad people who do bad things...crappy story all around. The salesman however was unwelcome, knew he was unwelcome, completely disregarded the property owner's well stated wishes for the sanctity of his property, and paid for it. Can't say I feel sorry for the guy at all. If someone does not want to be bothered, and they let you know that, then you do not bother them...whether they are a crazy irresponsible gun owner or not does not matter in the least. Salesman got what was coming to him.

wrong. Wrong WRONG WRONG!

As stated REPEATEDLY in thread you could farking wallpaper your yard in no tresspassing signs and it doesn;t mean a got-damn thing, particularly not to people who might have legitimate business contacting you, including postal carriers, meter readers and , yes DOOR to DOOR salesmen. Why? because a simple "no thank you" is sufficent to send the salesman on his way and our laws were written by rational people not anti-social lunatics. And in most places your front lawn conveys with a public access easement that lets people walk over the majority of it for any reason they want to, without, and i cannot stress this enough, you being allowed to shoot them.

His failure to have a lawyer vet the language of his posted signs for possible future court use does not (in any reasonable person's mind) indicate that he did not clearly communicate his wishes to have no-one on his property. It is very easy to arm-chair quarterback which signs he should have had, which y'all have done most admirably here in this thread.

I'll agree that postal carriers, meter readers and other officials who have valid official reasons to be on said property to carry out their assigned duties would be an exception to a private owners rights to the sanctity of his property...but can't agree with the premise that ...


Listen again , there IS no such thing as the "sanctity" of private property. Particularly if you live in a populated city or subur. Unless you have an access control device to physically prevent entry (Ie a LOCKED gate) AND permission to install and maintain it from the relevant authorities, someone entering your proerty has done nothing wrong. YOUR FRONT YARD IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY EXCLUSIVELY and you have no right to use force to defend it from reasonable access by bona fide visitors. Even if someone IS trespassing, you must first ask them to leave voluntarily before you have a right to use force to make them comply.
 
2012-07-31 01:04:22 PM

Magorn: and your other numbers are wrong too. The majority of gun deaths and injuries in this country are suicides, this is followed closely by domestic violence incidents,, criminal uses, after that comes accidents, shot by police, and then finally there are an infetesmially small number of "good guy citizen shoots bad guy" incidents. In fact this number is so tiny that gun advocates are forced to create an imaginary category of "crimes prevented by using/showing a gun" incidents where a gun is displayed or used and the criminal scurries off and where police are never called and no one seeks treatment for thier injuries, so there are conveniently no records or proof that they ever actually happened.


were are you getting your info?
as i am no expert on this issue (unlike everybody else on the internet) i went to wikipedia... i have no idea if it's true or not - but apparently over half of gun deaths are suicides and anywhere from 70-90% of gun homicides are committed by people with criminal records.

So if that's true, i don't see how anything i said was untrue.
And i also don't see how your "good guy stops bad guy" with a gun is relevant either.

The onus isn't on the guy with the gun to prove that he has a justification for having it - the onus is on you to prove that he doesn't.

Like i said - gun violence is a problem, but i don't think this guy is a good representative of that problem.
 
2012-07-31 01:06:21 PM

Magorn: DO you not realize, given how many cars are in this country (254 million) and how many miles they are driven, on average daily (41) how INSANE it is that car death are ONLY double what gun deaths are in this country?


Are you including suicides in that number when you're saying double? If so, that's a bit of a stretch for you to say only double.

and your other numbers are wrong too. The majority of gun deaths and injuries in this country are suicides, this is followed closely by domestic violence incidents,, criminal uses, after that comes accidents, shot by police, and then finally there are an infetesmially small number of "good guy citizen shoots bad guy" incidents. In fact this number is so tiny that gun advocates are forced to create an imaginary category of "crimes prevented by using/showing a gun" incidents where a gun is displayed or used and the criminal scurries off and where police are never called and no one seeks treatment for thier injuries, so there are conveniently no records or proof that they ever actually happened.

I do believe there are actual statistics and an accuracy range behind the "crimes prevented" stat. Of course, the simple fact that private firearm ownership is a right that's been upheld by the SCOTUS pretty much makes any argument against it irrelevant.

Also, does your domestic violence stat include legitimate self defense or is it restricted to only criminal cases? If restricted, then you can combine domestic violence and criminal uses. If not, you need to split it up between criminal and self-defense.
 
2012-07-31 01:09:51 PM

farkityfarker: RivenSilver: 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs.

Siding with the shooter here.

As already pointed out, a salesman is not considered a trespasser.


The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door. Actually, I usually have service providers put a note in my file that I require an appointment for any technicians to enter my home or come onto my property, and that I do not want to be contacted regarding service upgrades or new services.
 
2012-07-31 01:12:39 PM

MythDragon: Goddammit so much.

What is with the crazies with guns lately?

Most of the people who own guns are responsible people. But these assholes make the rest of us look bad.
Like the one jackass who has to do 100mph wheelies down the interstate makes other motorcyle riders look bad.

And how does someone say "You shot me!" in a pleasant manner?


"Dude. You shot me? Totally uncool, bro. Uncool."
 
2012-07-31 01:13:38 PM

Technoir: The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door.


And if someone dare to knock on your door, what are you going to do? Shoot them? Use harsh language? Write a sternly worded letter?
 
2012-07-31 01:16:52 PM

Technoir: farkityfarker: RivenSilver: 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs.

Siding with the shooter here.

As already pointed out, a salesman is not considered a trespasser.

The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door. Actually, I usually have service providers put a note in my file that I require an appointment for any technicians to enter my home or come onto my property, and that I do not want to be contacted regarding service upgrades or new services.


If they ignore the signs, there's an escalation protocol, though.

1 - Ask them to leave (if you're polite),
2 - Tell them to leave (if they don't leave after the first or if you're not bothering with polite. Feel free to point out the signs and question their inability to read, potential blood relationship between their parents, how many chromosomes they've got, etc)
3 - Call the po-po.
4 - If and only if they actually put you in a situation where your life is in danger do you consider self-defense.
 
2012-07-31 01:17:15 PM

ronaprhys: Magorn: DO you not realize, given how many cars are in this country (254 million) and how many miles they are driven, on average daily (41) how INSANE it is that car death are ONLY double what gun deaths are in this country?

Are you including suicides in that number when you're saying double? If so, that's a bit of a stretch for you to say only double.

and your other numbers are wrong too. The majority of gun deaths and injuries in this country are suicides, this is followed closely by domestic violence incidents,, criminal uses, after that comes accidents, shot by police, and then finally there are an infetesmially small number of "good guy citizen shoots bad guy" incidents. In fact this number is so tiny that gun advocates are forced to create an imaginary category of "crimes prevented by using/showing a gun" incidents where a gun is displayed or used and the criminal scurries off and where police are never called and no one seeks treatment for thier injuries, so there are conveniently no records or proof that they ever actually happened.

I do believe there are actual statistics and an accuracy range behind the "crimes prevented" stat. Of course, the simple fact that private firearm ownership is a right that's been upheld by the SCOTUS pretty much makes any argument against it irrelevant.Also, does your domestic violence stat include legitimate self defense or is it restricted to only criminal cases? If restricted, then you can combine domestic violence and criminal uses. If not, you need to split it up between criminal and self-defense.


Not entirely. Every Constittuional right, even the fundamental ones like free speech are subject to "Reasonable restrictions of Time, Place and Manner" when the state can show a compelling interest. Jurisprudence of more than a century recognizes that securing the safety and well-being of its citizens is the most compelling interest a state can have. Ergo restrictions on the right to keep and bear that are designed to secure that interest would be valid
 
2012-07-31 01:21:05 PM
And, at least according to this, a witness aid they say Roop tell Rainey he didn't want any food, and when Rainey turned to walk away, that's when Roop shot him.

Link
 
2012-07-31 01:22:18 PM

NightOwl2255: Technoir: The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door.

And if someone dare to knock on your door, what are you going to do? Shoot them? Use harsh language? Write a sternly worded letter?


This.

So if I notice that your house is on fire, or your child is lying bleeding in the street, I should just go about my business?
 
2012-07-31 01:23:55 PM
Link

Wait, the fark went back into his garage to reload?
 
2012-07-31 01:25:48 PM
Sure you could put him in jail - or maybe you could send him after telemarketers too.
 
2012-07-31 01:26:45 PM

WienerButt: B-b-but Obama is gonna take all your guns !!!!1!!


That's the saddest part of the current TeaBagger platform.

Obama doesn't NEED to take your guns...he can farkin' kill you with a drone strike, and you'll never see it coming.
 
2012-07-31 01:26:52 PM

elffster: Amazing to see idiot trolls even attempting to be funny or justify this.


This guy was a ticking time-bomb waiting to go off. I hope he gets the chair for it.


Worse punishment -- make him watch as his guns and ammo are confiscated, followed by a nice long stay in the general population of one of the Florida prisons where murderers get sent to.
 
2012-07-31 01:29:02 PM
FTA,"Rinard said his client attends a local church"

Ban churches!
 
2012-07-31 01:30:39 PM

ModernLuddite: A door to door lobster salesman once sent his army of trained attack lobsters after my family. This is a perfectly reasonable response.


Which is why you should ALWAYS keep a supply of short, strong rubber bands on you at all times...
 
2012-07-31 01:34:41 PM
Dimensio: bluefoxicy: Most gun owners are a brainwashed lot that believe guns are the only effective weapons

Please substantiate this assertion.

Well....

Alonjar:

I had two crack heads force their way into my apartment and rob me at gunpoint after knocking on my door. I could see the bullet sitting in the chamber down the barrel of the gun. The guy had it pointed directly at my face, and his hands were shaking like he was farking Michael J Fox (drug withdrawal I assume).

[...]

Why do I live my life in terror? I dont. Now that I carry every day, Im not afraid of a farking thing.


Take this guy for example. Somebody knocks on his door, he opens it, and the little chain that only lets the door open 3 inches snaps like a rubber band when a grown man puts his weight on it. The grown man shoves a gun through the door and in his face, chain breaks as he kicks the door in.

So this guy is no longer afraid, because he carries a gun.

So whenever he answers the door, he's going to immediately stick his gun in the face of whoever is there? That's basically in line with the paranoia of this Florida redneck.

Or is he going to stand there with a gun in his face, reach down, pull out his gun, and shoot the guy, who obviously won't shoot him in the face in the mean time?

You see, he believes his gun is his sword and his shield. He believes it's functionally better than a katana, nunchaku, sai, a sock full of quarters, or his fists, because it will protect him from bullets from another gun. A gun is power, and that power allows him to stand against another gun. We can all plainly see that a sword won't deflect bullets (you are not Luke Skywalker); however somehow this man has concluded that a gun can.
 
2012-07-31 01:36:10 PM

Primum: Hmm. Science shows that gun-nuts are actually mentally ill.

In fact, just having a gun on your person makes you perceive the world differently. You are dangerous, because you perceive non-threatening or low-threatening situations as much, much more threatening than they really are.

That's the definition of being mentally ill, seeing the world completely differently.

Look it up.


Please substantiate your assertions.
 
2012-07-31 01:37:32 PM

NightOwl2255: Technoir: The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door.

And if someone dare to knock on your door, what are you going to do? Shoot them? Use harsh language? Write a sternly worded letter?


Well, the last time it happened I a) called the police to report a trespasser in the building and b) informed the shiathead that he had until the count of three to remove himself from my doorstep or get punched. He ran. I then called their employer (in this case, Wind Mobile, an upstart wireless company in Ontario), and told them to stop sending door-to-door solicitors into our building. The lobby has several signs, clearly stating that we do not allow sales soliciting or canvassing, charity solicitation or canvassing or other intrusive behaviour. My own apartment door also has a "No Solicitors or Canvassers" sign. Business can call the building managers, and we happily let them set up a table/booth in the lobby to drum up new business, with the caveat that they do not wander the building knocking on doors. Even the building manager knows to call me before coming up to my unit. I also negotiated a clause in my lease that requires them to have myself, my fiancee (who lives with me) or my mother (who lives in the same building) present if they need to enter the unit for maintenance, except in the event of an emergency.

Bell Canada, Wind Mobile, Rogers Communications, and a few others, have all been warned about door-knocking in our building. So far, the police have ticketed three door-knockers for trespassing.

I work hard in a stressful industry, so when I get home in the evening, I treasure my downtime and absolutely hate having it infringed upon by a farking telemarketer or door-knocker. I just want to have dinner, spend time with my lady, and unwind.
 
2012-07-31 01:39:29 PM

FrancoFile: NightOwl2255: Technoir: The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door.

And if someone dare to knock on your door, what are you going to do? Shoot them? Use harsh language? Write a sternly worded letter?

This.

So if I notice that your house is on fire, or your child is lying bleeding in the street, I should just go about my business?


No kids, and genuine emergency would be an exception.
 
2012-07-31 01:39:48 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: So gun-grabbers, explain to me how this situation couldn't have been avoided by the salesman also carrying? Dude was a fool for not packing heat. You never know when some lunatic's gonna stand his ground in the most lethal manner possible.

An armed society is a polite society.


Relevant citation for polite, armed society:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield%E2%80%93McCoy_feud
 
2012-07-31 01:40:40 PM

Wow! That shooter dude is CRAZY!

The guy was selling steak and lobster, but he could have been selling anything - even cosmetics!



media.tumblr.com

JUSTICE FOR AVON!
 
2012-07-31 01:41:07 PM

ronaprhys: Technoir: farkityfarker: RivenSilver: 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs. 3 no tresspassing signs.

Siding with the shooter here.

As already pointed out, a salesman is not considered a trespasser.

The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door. Actually, I usually have service providers put a note in my file that I require an appointment for any technicians to enter my home or come onto my property, and that I do not want to be contacted regarding service upgrades or new services.

If they ignore the signs, there's an escalation protocol, though.

1 - Ask them to leave (if you're polite),
2 - Tell them to leave (if they don't leave after the first or if you're not bothering with polite. Feel free to point out the signs and question their inability to read, potential blood relationship between their parents, how many chromosomes they've got, etc)
3 - Call the po-po.
4 - If and only if they actually put you in a situation where your life is in danger do you consider self-defense.


Since they are already trespassing, the order of escalation is: 3, 2, modified 4 (punch them for infringing on my right to privacy).
 
2012-07-31 01:41:33 PM

Technoir: FrancoFile: NightOwl2255: Technoir: The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door.

And if someone dare to knock on your door, what are you going to do? Shoot them? Use harsh language? Write a sternly worded letter?

This.

So if I notice that your house is on fire, or your child is lying bleeding in the street, I should just go about my business?

No kids, and genuine emergency would be an exception.


Okee doke.
What if I just moved in next door and wanted to introduce myself? You Canucks are notoriously friendly, aren't you?
 
2012-07-31 01:44:08 PM

scottydoesntknow: As Rainey drew within 4 feet, Roop grabbed his 9mm Glock from his pocket and fired once, striking Rainey in the shoulder, he told police. Rainey fell to the ground, screaming, 'You shot me,' in what Roop described as an "antagonistic" manner, according to the report.

I have honest-to-god never heard a person say "YOU SHOT ME!" in anything other than an antagonistic/hostile manner.

This guy needs to be put down. It was only a matter of time before he shot someone. I bet his life's dream has been to shoot someone, then along comes Mr. door-to-door steak-n-lobster salesman, and it's his dream come true.


This. What the hell did he expect the guy to say when he put one through his shoulder?
 
2012-07-31 01:45:54 PM

Dimensio: pacified: Also bro, by carrying a gun everyday, you pretty much admit to being in fear.

Please explain the logic by which you have derived your conclusion.


If you're afraid without it, then you're still afraid.,, and probably dangerous. Enjoy your lethal security blanket.
 
2012-07-31 01:50:47 PM

FrancoFile: Technoir: FrancoFile: NightOwl2255: Technoir: The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door.

And if someone dare to knock on your door, what are you going to do? Shoot them? Use harsh language? Write a sternly worded letter?

This.

So if I notice that your house is on fire, or your child is lying bleeding in the street, I should just go about my business?

No kids, and genuine emergency would be an exception.

Okee doke.
What if I just moved in next door and wanted to introduce myself? You Canucks are notoriously friendly, aren't you?


Fark no. I don't want to know my neighbours. You'd get a "Yeah, what do you want? Oh, you just moved in down the hall? Swell. Good day." through the door.

I moved into the building for 2 reasons, it's fairly close to work, and to look after my mom who's getting up there in years, and my brother and sister and I decided one of us should be close by for her. I already know all I want to about my neighbours. Across the hall, family of West African immigrants who apparently dip their infant daughter in boiling oil for several hours a day, judging by the screaming that kid does. Next door, a cancer sufferer with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel who smokes dope 24/7 on the balcony (along with his wife, who has no medical condition that would require medicinal weed), preventing me from enjoying mine. I'd move, but he's apparently got less than 4 months before the cancer kills him, and eviction proceedings on the people across the hall should come to a head soon, as their visas have expired and the building has lodged numerous complaints against them around damages to their unit (ie they rip the doors off the cupboards, holes in the walls, damages to the floors and windows, etc).
 
2012-07-31 01:51:06 PM
Can we please just round up all those who live in constant fear and thus need to own dozens of firearms and dump them and all their guns into the middle of a stadium where they can collectively "stand their ground" so the rest of us can get on with our f*cking lives already?
 
2012-07-31 01:52:52 PM

Magorn: Not entirely. Every Constittuional right, even the fundamental ones like free speech are subject to "Reasonable restrictions of Time, Place and Manner" when the state can show a compelling interest. Jurisprudence of more than a century recognizes that securing the safety and well-being of its citizens is the most compelling interest a state can have. Ergo restrictions on the right to keep and bear that are designed to secure that interest would be valid


No disagreement on reasonable restrictions, as a concept. I believe you and I would strongly differ on reasonable, though.

That being said, the recent cases in front of the SCOTUS have shown that firearms and classes of firearms cannot be banned outright, or even de facto banned due to onerous processes, lack of permit issuance, etc. While this guy definitely seems to be a nutbar, as evidenced by what's in this article, until someone could show a definite and present danger to society, there's really no good way to restrict his right to own a firearm nor should he ever enter into the discussion of firearm restrictions. He's an outlier. His case should be handled just as any other murder case would be - via the already established processes. No reason to try and use this as an argument for more restrictions or any other nonsense.
 
2012-07-31 01:53:52 PM

Technoir: FrancoFile: Technoir: FrancoFile: NightOwl2255: Technoir: The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door.

And if someone dare to knock on your door, what are you going to do? Shoot them? Use harsh language? Write a sternly worded letter?

This.

So if I notice that your house is on fire, or your child is lying bleeding in the street, I should just go about my business?

No kids, and genuine emergency would be an exception.

Okee doke.
What if I just moved in next door and wanted to introduce myself? You Canucks are notoriously friendly, aren't you?

Fark no. I don't want to know my neighbours. You'd get a "Yeah, what do you want? Oh, you just moved in down the hall? Swell. Good day." through the door.

I moved into the building for 2 reasons, it's fairly close to work, and to look after my mom who's getting up there in years, and my brother and sister and I decided one of us should be close by for her. I already know all I want to about my neighbours. Across the hall, family of West African immigrants who apparently dip their infant daughter in boiling oil for several hours a day, judging by the screaming that kid does. Next door, a cancer sufferer with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel who smokes dope 24/7 on the balcony (along with his wife, who has no medical condition that would require medicinal weed), preventing me from enjoying mine. I'd move, but he's apparently got less than 4 months before the cancer kills him, and eviction proceedings on the people across the hall should come to a head soon, as their visas have expired and the building has lodged numerous complaints against them around damages to their unit (ie they rip the doors off the cupboards, holes in the walls, damages to the floors and windows, e ...


Sucks to be you. Enjoy your miserable, fearful, misanthropic life.
 
2012-07-31 01:55:12 PM

Technoir: b) informed the shiathead that he had until the count of three to remove himself from my doorstep or get punched.


Ah, I see you're going with impotent threats.
 
2012-07-31 01:55:26 PM

Technoir: MythDragon: Goddammit so much.

What is with the crazies with guns lately?

Most of the people who own guns are responsible people. But these assholes make the rest of us look bad.
Like the one jackass who has to do 100mph wheelies down the interstate makes other motorcyle riders look bad.

And how does someone say "You shot me!" in a pleasant manner?

"Dude. You shot me? Totally uncool, bro. Uncool."


Use of the word "bro", even ironically, justifies a double-tap.
 
2012-07-31 02:00:58 PM
Clearly this was the victim's fault for not bucking up after being shot and calmly saying, "You're right sir, I'm very sorry for trespassing. I've learned my lesson and I'll just go quietly now" while keeping both hands in plain sight.

Rookie mistake.
 
2012-07-31 02:01:10 PM

brantgoose: Shooting a door-to-door salesman "for effect"? I believe in French we say "pour encourager les autres" (to encourage the others, or rather, to discourage the others).

But I would like to remind the gung-ho that the right to self-defence is posited on two constraints, namely 1) there should be a real threat to you which requires self-defence, a real and present danger, as they say in the security business, a cause, a real threat, and 2) your response should be appropriate and measured, limited to what is necessary to allow you to defend yourself, seek help, bring in the proper authorities.

For example, if a child sticky with jam attempts to hug you, shooting it in the face is not an appropriate and measured response, even though there is real and present danger of getting jam on your favorite golf shirt.

The basic idea of "stand your ground" in some people's mind seems to be: on my land, anything goes. I can shoot you for being there, regardless of who or what you are or why you are there. Stopping to ask for directions from a local: that's a shooting, wandering across an unmarked boundary while lost, that is definitely a shooting. This concept of stand your ground is strongest among conservatives yahoos and deranged individualists, which is to say, psychopaths. Oh, and illegal moonshiners and drug mongers.

On the other hand, the property owner and citizen may legitimately "stand their ground" against an attack or even an intruder. We've all seen reports of cases where the homeowner is charged for violence against a burglar. Some of these cases are legitimate self-defence, misconstrued by stupid cops, lawyers and judges, some of them are eggregious "standing your ground" in the wacko-Waco sense of being a complete sociopathic looney.

If there were fewer psychopaths and loonies going around abusing the concept of self-defence like Homer Simpson after his discovery of duelling (the tomacco episode), then there would be a Hell of a lot less gun related death and ...


This is why you are Farkied as "sensible Farker"
 
2012-07-31 02:12:51 PM
Technoir SmartestFunniest 2012-07-31 01:50:47 PM


FrancoFile: Technoir: FrancoFile: NightOwl2255: Technoir: The fark they aren't. Being a foot-bound sales-schlep does not entitle some douchecanoe to ignore my "No Trespassing" and "No Soliciting" signs. Unless you are an employee of a service provider I subscribe to, or a member of law-enforcement agency, don't knock on my farkin' door.

And if someone dare to knock on your door, what are you going to do? Shoot them? Use harsh language? Write a sternly worded letter?

This.

So if I notice that your house is on fire, or your child is lying bleeding in the street, I should just go about my business?

No kids, and genuine emergency would be an exception.

Okee doke.
What if I just moved in next door and wanted to introduce myself? You Canucks are notoriously friendly, aren't you?

Fark no. I don't want to know my neighbours. You'd get a "Yeah, what do you want? Oh, you just moved in down the hall? Swell. Good day." through the door.

I moved into the building for 2 reasons, it's fairly close to work, and to look after my mom who's getting up there in years, and my brother and sister and I decided one of us should be close by for her. I already know all I want to about my neighbours. Across the hall, family of West African immigrants who apparently dip their infant daughter in boiling oil for several hours a day, judging by the screaming that kid does. Next door, a cancer sufferer with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel who smokes dope 24/7 on the balcony (along with his wife, who has no medical condition that would require medicinal weed), preventing me from enjoying mine. I'd move, but he's apparently got less than 4 months before the cancer kills him, and eviction proceedings on the people across the hall should come to a head soon, as their visas have expired and the building has lodged numerous complaints against them around damages to their unit (ie they rip the doors off the cupboards, holes in the walls, damages to the floors and windows, etc).




Dude! You still live with your mom!


/oh, right, you take care of her. Got it.
 
2012-07-31 02:22:57 PM
Technoir: I'd move

Don't bother, it wouldn't be worth the effort. You wouldn't be any less peeved at the new place.
 
2012-07-31 02:26:33 PM

James!: If you pull a gun on a meter reader you should have your power shut off and your guns taken away.


He was "terrified"? Grow some farking balls.


This is the question I've always had about so many (not all) gun owners. Upthread someone mentioned some stats relating to deaths per person from guns in the US versus other nations, even nations with a history of gun ownership and use much longer than in the US. Some of those nations have actually been invaded, and have has fascist dictators and whatnot, so any paranoia they might have regarding government might be justified. Yet the paranoia just isn't there.

Problem here is that it's not the fault of the gun that so many people are getting shot and killed, it's the fault of the gun owner who somehow feels the world is out to get him (especially them darkies, because these people are almost always white males), and that only his cabinet of 3 dozen weapons and 6,000 rounds of ammunition will save him from impending doom.

What I'd like to know is... what are they afraid of? How can one exist in that advanced a state of pants-sh*tting fear their entire lives and not go bugf*ck insane?
 
2012-07-31 02:26:33 PM
Was shooter white? Yes.
Was shootee black? No.

Then why is thread green?
 
2012-07-31 02:30:56 PM
Pathman: Hundreds gather to remember, pray and support victims of terrible car crash

Poker Professional Ryan Young Passes Away In Car Accident

Chesapeake man killed in one-car accident

Crossmaglen Rangers GAA star Ciaran McKenna killed in car crash

St. Louis Car Crash Leaves David Gains Deceased

Young child injured in two-car crash

Shooting, car chase ends in multi-car crash on I-5; 3 injured

A sampling of some stories from today.
Enjoy your freedom to travel, car nuts.


So maybe we could start to regulate and govern guns at least as much as we do cars. How about that?
 
2012-07-31 02:31:51 PM

Fano: I submitted this a couple days ago, receiving a "bad kitty, this has already been submitted and redlit" with the headline "Did you hear the one about the traveling salesman?"



I know a guy that can make that particular "bad kitty" go away - but it'll cost you $5 bucks a month.
 
2012-07-31 02:35:31 PM

Cupajo: Pathman: Hundreds gather to remember, pray and support victims of terrible car crash

Poker Professional Ryan Young Passes Away In Car Accident

Chesapeake man killed in one-car accident

Crossmaglen Rangers GAA star Ciaran McKenna killed in car crash

St. Louis Car Crash Leaves David Gains Deceased

Young child injured in two-car crash

Shooting, car chase ends in multi-car crash on I-5; 3 injured

A sampling of some stories from today.
Enjoy your freedom to travel, car nuts.

So maybe we could start to regulate and govern guns at least as much as we do cars. How about that?



I don't regulate my car. Do you regulate your car?
 
2012-07-31 02:39:07 PM
One shoudl not be selling Skittles and iced tea door-to-door.

/just sayin'
 
2012-07-31 02:42:14 PM
The guy was one of those annoying door to door meat salesmen? The guy totally deserved it!

I guess I am the only voice of reason that thinks if you have three no trespassing signs on your property, and you trespass, you deserve to get your farking brains blown out.

No trespassing doesnt mean "no trespassing EXCEPT annoying farking door to door meat salesmen". It means you you farking retard.

A mans house and property is his castle. I think you should be allowed to put out signs that say "NO TRESPASSING - DEADLY FORCE WILL BE USED", and that should be all the legally required notice necessary.
 
2012-07-31 02:42:43 PM

rewind2846:
This is the question I've always had about so many (not all) gun owners. Upthread someone mentioned some stats relating to deaths per person from guns in the US versus other nations, even nations with a history of gun ownership and use much longer than in the US. Some of those nations have actually been invaded, and have has fascist dictators and whatnot, so any paranoia they might have regarding government might be justified. Yet the paranoia just isn't there.


There are some definite cultural differences between the US and other areas. Some are inherent the relatively young nature of our country, to mixing of different cultures, the huge spaces available to us, and a general culture of excess. Couple that with relative affluence and we can have all sorts of phenomenon that aren't present elsewhere.

Problem here is that it's not the fault of the gun that so many people are getting shot and killed, it's the fault of the gun owner who somehow feels the world is out to get him (especially them darkies, because these people are almost always white males), and that only his cabinet of 3 dozen weapons and 6,000 rounds of ammunition will save him from impending doom.

I believe it's been quoted that over half of the deaths as a result of firearms are suicides. Another significant portion are criminal in nature (be it domestic violence or in the commission of another crime). Very, very few appear to be due to overzealous firearm owners. They do get a huge amount of press, though.

What I'd like to know is... what are they afraid of? How can one exist in that advanced a state of pants-sh*tting fear their entire lives and not go bugf*ck insane?

As for the rest, basically you're setting up a nice strawman. Evidence? The "darkies", always whitey, etc.
 
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