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(National Review)   Both the DEA and ATF "should be dissolved and their responsibilities handed over to some more responsible party, such as a group of drunken rodeo clowns or ADD-addled teen-agers"   (nationalreview.com) divider line 86
    More: Obvious, DEA, ATF, collective responsibility, rodeo clowns, North Texas  
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1674 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Jul 2012 at 11:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-31 09:44:06 AM
The ATF is a bunch of clowns.
 
2012-07-31 09:58:05 AM
Keeping the director's office empty and cutting the budget to nearly zero while writing legislation out of the masturbatory fantasies of the Turner Diaries results in an impotent and dysfunctional agency? I am shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you!

Someone needs to get them more guns. Everything needs more guns.
 
2012-07-31 09:58:07 AM
Something on National Review Online that isn't the stupidest thing I've seen all day? What brave new world did I wake up in this morning?
 
2012-07-31 10:01:39 AM
Whoever approved this operation belongs in a jail cell next to whoever approved Fast and Furious.

Wait, I spoke too soon.
 
2012-07-31 10:11:18 AM
The DEA rakes in millions of dollars a year by skimming the proceeds off the top of illegal drug market. We can't let that cash stream get interrupted.
 
2012-07-31 10:28:06 AM

kronicfeld: Whoever approved this operation belongs in a jail cell next to whoever approved Fast and Furious.

Wait, I spoke too soon.


didn't bush approve FF?
 
2012-07-31 10:28:36 AM
NRO is right-wing, right?

Yeah, this is something I can get behind the right wing on.

F the DEA *and* the ATF.
 
2012-07-31 10:32:40 AM
 
2012-07-31 10:35:05 AM
I just don't understand the war on drugs. why do conservatives support it? it costs a LOT, doesn't work and is overly invasive and destructive of our rights and freedoms. I don't get it. legalize cannabis, void any convictions involving cannabis, and stop treating addiction as a criminal issue and start treating it as a medical problem.
 
2012-07-31 10:41:26 AM

Weaver95: why do conservatives support it? it costs a LOT, doesn't work and is overly invasive and destructive of our rights and freedoms.


Stoners are easy targets
Irresponsible junkies are easy targets
Organized crime is an easy target
Poor people are easy targets
Anti-drug and anti-welfare rhetoric pair well
TOUGH ON CRIME
Spending on security/crime is the only good kind of spending
Campaign contributions from for-profit prisons
Inmates = cheap labor
Criminal records = cheap labor
VALUES VALUES VALUES
 
2012-07-31 10:58:15 AM
NRO writes something that I agree with?

Well played, Mayans.
 
2012-07-31 11:11:45 AM

xanadian: NRO is right-wing, right?

Yeah, this is something I can get behind the right wing on.

F the DEA *and* the ATF.


The minute a Republican is back in charge, they'll STFU.
 
2012-07-31 11:16:52 AM

kronicfeld: Weaver95: why do conservatives support it? it costs a LOT, doesn't work and is overly invasive and destructive of our rights and freedoms.

Stoners are easy targets
Irresponsible junkies are easy targets
Organized crime is an easy target
Poor people are easy targets
Anti-drug and anti-welfare rhetoric pair well
TOUGH ON CRIME
Spending on security/crime is the only good kind of spending
Campaign contributions from for-profit prisons
Inmates = cheap labor
Criminal records = cheap labor
VALUES VALUES VALUES


Left out a few:

Police budgets are augmented by siezure and forfeiture, which means less taxes to support police.
trial lawyers make bank on defending middle class users from hard time prison
Follow the money through various black budgets, foreign governments we're propping up, and gangs.
Predator / drone flights used in War on Drugs

the criminal economy is big business for the USA and many powerful entities within it.
 
2012-07-31 11:20:37 AM
Thanks for your insight, NRO. Now fark off. Again.
 
2012-07-31 11:38:32 AM

FlashHarry: kronicfeld: Whoever approved this operation belongs in a jail cell next to whoever approved Fast and Furious.

Wait, I spoke too soon.

didn't bush approve FF?


As I understand it that was a football name and the guns used had tracking devices in them and it was a failure and was ended before Bush' term was up. Then it was re-invented and re-upped under the Obama admin with more guns, but no actual way to track them unless they turned up at a crime scene...and it was a spectacular failure.
 
2012-07-31 11:42:14 AM
ADDled saves space.
 
2012-07-31 11:44:06 AM

Weaver95: I just don't understand the war on drugs. why do conservatives support it? it costs a LOT, doesn't work and is overly invasive and destructive of our rights and freedoms. I don't get it. legalize cannabis, void any convictions involving cannabis, and stop treating addiction as a criminal issue and start treating it as a medical problem.


conservatives like to use spite as a policy rudder.
 
2012-07-31 11:44:20 AM
I see that blind squirrel found another nut.
 
2012-07-31 11:44:52 AM
Sounds like a good first step to me.
 
2012-07-31 11:45:17 AM
Did it just get chilly in here?
 
2012-07-31 11:46:16 AM
Is that a baby in that bathwater?

Who cares, it's a freeloading socialist! Toss that shiat like a rentboy's asshole!
 
2012-07-31 11:46:17 AM
You can't spell "moron" withou---wait, WTF is this? Almost-reasonable commentary on NRO?

This must be a plant. There isn't enough thinly-veiled racism to be a real NRO article.
 
2012-07-31 11:47:05 AM

I_C_Weener: As I understand it that was a football name and the guns used had tracking devices in them and it was a failure and was ended before Bush' term was up.


Gunrunner was the name and it was just renamed
 
2012-07-31 11:47:11 AM

Generation_D: trial lawyers make bank on defending middle class users from hard time prison


Republicans hate "trial lawyers" (read: lawyers who represent injured persons against business and/or government entities, and excluding all lawyers who represent businesses in contract, trade secrets, patent, copyright and other business-on-business actions that makes up a substantial portion of the federal courts' caseload), so I don't see the connection there.
 
2012-07-31 11:47:30 AM
I know if I ran a trucking company, I wouldn't track mileage on my trucks.
 
2012-07-31 11:47:41 AM

Weaver95: I just don't understand the war on drugs. why do conservatives support it? it costs a LOT, doesn't work and is overly invasive and destructive of our rights and freedoms. I don't get it. legalize cannabis, void any convictions involving cannabis, and stop treating addiction as a criminal issue and start treating it as a medical problem.


It has to do with punishing people. I have noticed that all 'conservative; values seem to favor punishment so they can feel morally superior. The attitude of I don't do drugs so punish people that do, or poor people are too comfortable we need more punishing policies to get them to work, we can't negotiate with foreign nations bomb the people for living in a nation we disagree with, the list goes on.
 
2012-07-31 11:49:22 AM

Weaver95: I just don't understand the war on drugs. why do conservatives support it? it costs a LOT, doesn't work and is overly invasive and destructive of our rights and freedoms. I don't get it. legalize cannabis, void any convictions involving cannabis, and stop treating addiction as a criminal issue and start treating it as a medical problem.


Because most "conservatives" these days don't actually care about policy principles so much as they care about keeping certain demographic groups down. The War on (Some) Drugs is a great way to disenfranchise and economically disadvantage groups that are less likely to vote Republican. That, and it keeps the money pipeline flowing to all the military contractors that are now selling their equipment to domestic police forces.

It's all about power and money, pure and simple. Conservatives don't have any principles other than those two anymore.
 
2012-07-31 11:49:40 AM

Weaver95: I just don't understand the war on drugs. why do conservatives support it?


It keeps liberals and minorities off the streets, what other reason do they need?

/Only half-joking.
 
2012-07-31 11:50:07 AM

Generation_D: xanadian: NRO is right-wing, right?

Yeah, this is something I can get behind the right wing on.

F the DEA *and* the ATF.

The minute a Republican is back in charge, they'll STFU.


Sad, but true.
 
2012-07-31 11:50:53 AM
Williamson? (checks) Yeah, Williamson. Whether or not he makes a good point here, he will inevitably expand it into "all regulations are pointless and all government agencies are incompetent."
 
2012-07-31 11:51:01 AM

bmongar: Weaver95: I just don't understand the war on drugs. why do conservatives support it? it costs a LOT, doesn't work and is overly invasive and destructive of our rights and freedoms. I don't get it. legalize cannabis, void any convictions involving cannabis, and stop treating addiction as a criminal issue and start treating it as a medical problem.

It has to do with punishing people. I have noticed that all 'conservative; values seem to favor punishment so they can feel morally superior. The attitude of I don't do drugs so punish people that do, or poor people are too comfortable we need more punishing policies to get them to work, we can't negotiate with foreign nations bomb the people for living in a nation we disagree with, the list goes on.


yeah, but...a LOT of conservatives have issues with drug abuse. Rush Limbaugh couldn't admit he had a problem until he got caught in a drug deal gone bad. I suspect that there are even more Republicans out there with substance abuse issues and denying they've got a problem...while at the same time they rant and rave against the 'moral failure' of their fellow addicts.
 
2012-07-31 11:52:48 AM
Law Enforcement is BIG BUSINESS.
 
2012-07-31 11:54:08 AM

Kuroshin: Did it just get chilly in here?


Why, are you posting from hell?
 
2012-07-31 11:55:47 AM

Weaver95: yeah, but...a LOT of conservatives have issues with drug abuse. Rush Limbaugh couldn't admit he had a problem until he got caught in a drug deal gone bad. I suspect that there are even more Republicans out there with substance abuse issues and denying they've got a problem...while at the same time they rant and rave against the 'moral failure' of their fellow addicts.


See also: The huge number of violently homophobic closeted gay people in their party.
 
2012-07-31 11:56:10 AM

Weaver95: bmongar: Weaver95: I just don't understand the war on drugs. why do conservatives support it? it costs a LOT, doesn't work and is overly invasive and destructive of our rights and freedoms. I don't get it. legalize cannabis, void any convictions involving cannabis, and stop treating addiction as a criminal issue and start treating it as a medical problem.

It has to do with punishing people. I have noticed that all 'conservative; values seem to favor punishment so they can feel morally superior. The attitude of I don't do drugs so punish people that do, or poor people are too comfortable we need more punishing policies to get them to work, we can't negotiate with foreign nations bomb the people for living in a nation we disagree with, the list goes on.

yeah, but...a LOT of conservatives have issues with drug abuse. Rush Limbaugh couldn't admit he had a problem until he got caught in a drug deal gone bad. I suspect that there are even more Republicans out there with substance abuse issues and denying they've got a problem...while at the same time they rant and rave against the 'moral failure' of their fellow addicts.


Okay, we can add "hypocrisy" to the list of modern Republican values. In their eyes, THEY aren't "bad people", so THEIR drug problem is different somehow. It goes back to the main reasons Republicans support the War on Drugs: it's all about keeping the dark skinned, young, liberal people down and away from a voting booth. If they're not in one of the groups the WoD is intended to suppress, then well, they can excuse that because they aren't the intended target, in their mind.

It's all about the end goal of suppressing parts of the population, not the actual principle of whether drug addiction is wrong or bad.
 
2012-07-31 11:58:35 AM

MisterTweak: Keeping the director's office empty and cutting the budget to nearly zero while writing legislation out of the masturbatory fantasies of the Turner Diaries results in an impotent and dysfunctional agency?


Yep, because the ATF was so 'functional' back in the day when they had a director and a big budget. These guys have not been functional in 20 or 30 years.

/Randy Weaver for ATF DiIrector
//for the lulz
 
2012-07-31 11:58:46 AM
dl.dropbox.com

/Take their budget, spread it among the local police forces and afterschool educational programs.
/Take their guns, sell them to law abiding citizens, spend the cash on treating drug addiction.
/Whoever does this will be the best President ever.
 
2012-07-31 12:00:35 PM
I was about to post "well, let's not be dicks to the guys trying to protect us from the Mexican drug cartels that have pretty much taken over Mexico."

And then I realized if we legalized drugs (marijuana at the very least) and taxed it, it would yank the rug right out from under the cartels and throw a whole lot of money towards paying down our debt.

And I'm not even through with this cup of coffee yet.

/get crackin', Congress.
 
2012-07-31 12:01:13 PM

MisterTweak: Keeping the director's office empty and cutting the budget to nearly zero while writing legislation out of the masturbatory fantasies of the Turner Diaries results in an impotent and dysfunctional agency? I am shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you!

Someone needs to get them more guns. Everything needs more guns.


Uh, the ATF has been a joke for much longer than the Obama admin. To other federal LEOs and the industries they "regulate".

As a gun guy, you hear horror stories. Like a guy putting together a Belgian FAL from a kit. Well, it can only have so many foreign made parts in it (long legal story) and the list of parts that count differs from gun to gun. So he calls up his local office and gets a Tech Branch guy so he can confirm. Because he doesn't want to go to jail. Answer: "Uh, I dunno. Your gunsmith should know." From the guy who'd happily put him in jail for being wrong.

Or the shoelace. Or "heavily modifying" guns to make cases. Or just not knowing stuff. Or intentionally under-staffing offices (looking at you poor overworked NFA Branch guys). Or getting into public screaming matches with the FBI at crime scenes. Or just being generally retarded.

It was under the Bush admin that the ATF thought it was a good idea to buy a bunch of pocketknives with "Always Think Forfeiture" engraved on them. You know, the practice of Asset Forfeiture that is rife with abuse? Yeah. These guys have been clowns for a lot longer than they've been without a confirmed director.
 
2012-07-31 12:01:19 PM

Mnemia: . Conservatives don't have any principles other than those two anymore.


While that may be somewhat accurate about social conservatives, it misses the mark for many of us fiscal conservatives.

I'll grant you that most 'conservatives' are now in Camp #1, but there are still some of us in Camp No. 2.
 
2012-07-31 12:02:17 PM
I don't get it? Why doesn't the NRO like the ATF and the DEA? They have lots of guns and are anti-drug. Only bad Christians use drugs so they deserve to be punished.
 
2012-07-31 12:03:13 PM

Fry's 100th Cup of Coffee: And then I realized if we legalized drugs (marijuana at the very least) and taxed it, it would yank the rug right out from under the cartels and throw a whole lot of money towards paying down our debt.


Let's also not forget that the ATF has knowingly been selling them guns.
 
2012-07-31 12:03:53 PM

Spade: Or the shoelace.


Eh, the shoelace thing was actually technically correct. It's what happens when you ban something based on function, then find the silliest thing that can satisfy that function.
 
2012-07-31 12:04:49 PM

jehovahs witness protection: The ATF is a bunch of clowns.


Whole country is full of clowns. Gonna be real hard to find anyone who wants this job.
 
2012-07-31 12:11:15 PM
images.wikia.com
 
2012-07-31 12:11:28 PM
I do not need any more of this.
cdn2-b.examiner.com
 
2012-07-31 12:11:41 PM

HeadLever: Mnemia: . Conservatives don't have any principles other than those two anymore.

While that may be somewhat accurate about social conservatives, it misses the mark for many of us fiscal conservatives.

I'll grant you that most 'conservatives' are now in Camp #1, but there are still some of us in Camp No. 2.


Actually, I kind of disagree that this is more true of social conservatives than of "fiscal conservatives". I actually think that social conservatives are one of the only groups within the broader conservative movement that actually does have some ideological principles left anymore. Unlike most Republican elected officials, they actually believe the crap they spew. Libertarians are another small faction within the conservative movement that also has some principles they adhere to. They really believe in what they say, but they are an insignificant force in modern politics in comparison to the social conservatives.

So, I strongly disagree with both of those factions of conservatives, but I can at least grudgingly accept that they have some ideological principles that they are willing to adhere to even at political cost to themselves (which I think is the real yardstick for how principled a politician is). It's more the "fiscal conservatives" that still vote Republican that I think have abandoned most any sort of ideological rigor in favor of pure political power/money games. I'm thinking of people like Eric Cantor, Mitt Romney, and the "business" faction of the GOP. Those guys have long ago ditched the idea of actual fiscal responsibility in favor of pure political expedience (e.g., endless tax cuts at the expense of the country's finances and future).
 
2012-07-31 12:12:10 PM
Don't mess yourself. They don't want the DEA dismantled completely, they just want it handled by the private sector. Because we all know the private sector is always fair in their practices and never, never puts profits in front of the law. Like private prisons...

As for the ATF, of course they want to get rid of anything that regulates FIREARMS. What do you think this is, some civilized 21st century country capable of discerning between legal gun owners and raving lunatics? How naive of you.
 
2012-07-31 12:12:43 PM

czei: Why doesn't the NRO like the ATF and the DEA? They have lots of guns and are anti-drug.


As for the ATF, it started back in the 80s when ATF was found to be primarily devoting its firearms enforcement efforts to the apprehension, upon technical malum prohibitum charges, of individuals who lack all criminal intent and knowledge. Evidence received demonstrated that ATF agents tended to concentrate upon collector's items rather than criminal street guns.
 
2012-07-31 12:13:18 PM
I really don't trust anyone who ideologically hates government to design my government. The same goes for the opposite.

That said, end the Drug War and repurpose all those federal law enforcement officers to something useful.
 
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