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(Wired)   US Air Force: The stealthy, fifth-generation, $400 million F-22 Raptor is the undisputed king of the skies. German Luftwaffe: Ja, about that   (wired.com) divider line 207
    More: Interesting, Toronto Raptors, air forces, mock combat, U.S. Air Force  
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22836 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jul 2012 at 10:42 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-01 11:20:38 AM

clyph: Slaves2Darkness: Worked out great, right up until they ran out of pilots, planes and resources. The Germans problem is that the US could and did build more planes, tanks, ships, and guns then they did. The Allies did not achieve victory over the Germans through superior technology, but superior numbers and just good enough technology.

That, and the Soviets were inflicting something like 5x as many casualties on them as we were.

I know it's not cool to acknowledge the russkies, but we couldn't have beat the nazis without them. Historical revisionism sucks, even when it means giving credit to people you'd rather not.


You're still revising history. Your army didn't beat the nazis. Your army didn't help beat the nazis. It was not a team effort. The russians beat them. You did not participate until it was long over.
 
2012-08-01 11:42:30 AM

amoral: clyph: Slaves2Darkness: Worked out great, right up until they ran out of pilots, planes and resources. The Germans problem is that the US could and did build more planes, tanks, ships, and guns then they did. The Allies did not achieve victory over the Germans through superior technology, but superior numbers and just good enough technology.

That, and the Soviets were inflicting something like 5x as many casualties on them as we were.

I know it's not cool to acknowledge the russkies, but we couldn't have beat the nazis without them. Historical revisionism sucks, even when it means giving credit to people you'd rather not.

You're still revising history. Your army didn't beat the nazis. Your army didn't help beat the nazis. It was not a team effort. The Russians beat them. You did not participate until it was long over.


i.imgur.com
I keep looking and looking, but can't find any truth in your post.

The Soviet Union offered support to the partisans in many Wehrmacht-occupied countries in Central Europe, notably those in Slovakia, Poland and the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. In addition the Polish Armed Forces in the East, particularly the First and Second Polish armies, were armed and trained, and would eventually fight alongside the Red Army. The Free French forces also contributed to the Red Army by formation of GC3 (Groupe de Chasse 3 or 3rd Fighter Group) unit to fulfill the commitment of Charles de Gaulle, leader of the Free French, who thought that it was important for French servicemen to serve on all fronts. British and Commonwealth forces contributed directly to the fighting on the Eastern Front through their service in the convoys and training Red Air Force pilots, as well as in provision of early material and intelligence support. The later massive materiel support of the Lend-Lease by the United States and Canada played a significant part particularly in the logistics of the war.

I'm sure the allied bombing campaign did nothing to impede military production or transportation behind the eastern German lines, or dew the majority of the Luftwaffe's fighters away from the Eastern Front either.
 
2012-08-01 01:16:39 PM

SuperNinjaToad: I think the entire point of the article which sadly many of you missed, is that the Typhoon will cream the F-22 WVR...I think even the article writer knows that in BVR the Raptor has an advantage but in air combat you have to take into consideration the possibility of a knifefight as well.


'Cream' the F-22? Well if you believe 'evenly matched' equals 'creaming' then yeah.

FTFA: "The results were a surprise to the Germans and presumably the Americans, too. "We were evenly matched," Maj. Marc Gruene told Combat Aircraft's Jamie Hunter."

So the F-22 close in is an even match for the Typhoon. Also, the F-22 isn't using it's classified electronic warfare suite which is said to be able to interfere with and even damage an enemy aircraft's computers and fly-by-wire systems, not to mention the classified flare/chaff system which is said to work with the aircraft's EWS by allowing the EWS to detect and classify the radar/ir systems the enemy aircraft is using then adjust the flares/chaff to maximise their ability to act as decoys.

Take those rumored abilities away and you still have an evenly match aircraft for knife-fights and an aircraft that excels at BVR encounters.
 
2012-08-01 01:45:32 PM

Flint Ironstag: Bschott007: Flint Ironstag: including the F-22 which won't want to turn on its radar because that's a huge beacon saying "Yohoo! I'm right here!"

That isn't what would happen. The F-22 uses the AN/APG-77 radar which isn't like other aircraft radars. It is an AESA radar or phased radar array. It scatters the radar signal over a wide spectrum and hides in the background noise. The F-22 could have their radar on and an enemy aircraft would never know they were being painted. AESA radars do not trigger the RWR systems in other aircraft.

/the more you know.

Really? Lots of aircraft use AESA systems, including the Typhoon. The Typhoon isn't as mechanically stealthy as the F-22, but its radar is as stealthy. Also, phased array isn't the same as AESA as you imply. AESA are phased arrays but not all phased arrays are AESA.


Actually you are correct. Some Typhoons do have an AESA system (The second gen AESA, Captor-M) though the original models did not. The new Captor-E isn't scheduled for installation until 2015. The Typhoon's Captor-E radar is a third gen AESA while the F-22's current APG-77 is a fourth-gen AESA.

"After one year of industry funding, the Eurofighter and Euroradar consortia have received renewed strong support from the partner nations and have agreed to continue the full scale development programme of the next generation E-Scan radar, confirming the 2015 entry into service date," Eurofighter said in a statement last week.

Either way, I was incorrect. Some Typhoons do have the older AESA radars. Thank you for the correction.
 
2012-08-01 06:15:34 PM

Flint Ironstag: And remember a F-117 was shot down by a missile system that was designed in the sixties.


That was when the 117s were flying the same flight pattern every nite and after that incident, the ops group finally got their shiat together and realized stealth does not equal invincible. They created a special flight path analysis and planning system which mitigated that glaring oversight.
 
2012-08-01 10:13:04 PM
cache.gawkerassets.com

Bschott007: Flint Ironstag: Bschott007: Flint Ironstag: including the F-22 which won't want to turn on its radar because that's a huge beacon saying "Yohoo! I'm right here!"

That isn't what would happen. The F-22 uses the AN/APG-77 radar which isn't like other aircraft radars. It is an AESA radar or phased radar array. It scatters the radar signal over a wide spectrum and hides in the background noise. The F-22 could have their radar on and an enemy aircraft would never know they were being painted. AESA radars do not trigger the RWR systems in other aircraft.

/the more you know.

Really? Lots of aircraft use AESA systems, including the Typhoon. The Typhoon isn't as mechanically stealthy as the F-22, but its radar is as stealthy. Also, phased array isn't the same as AESA as you imply. AESA are phased arrays but not all phased arrays are AESA.

Actually you are correct. Some Typhoons do have an AESA system (The second gen AESA, Captor-M) though the original models did not. The new Captor-E isn't scheduled for installation until 2015. The Typhoon's Captor-E radar is a third gen AESA while the F-22's current APG-77 is a fourth-gen AESA.

"After one year of industry funding, the Eurofighter and Euroradar consortia have received renewed strong support from the partner nations and have agreed to continue the full scale development programme of the next generation E-Scan radar, confirming the 2015 entry into service date," Eurofighter said in a statement last week.

Either way, I was incorrect. Some Typhoons do have the older AESA radars. Thank you for the correction.


I HOPE NO ONE REMEMBERS THAT DIGITAL SOUND PROCESSING HAS IMPROVED WHILE YOU'RE BUSY PLAYING WITH YOUR "STEALTH" AIRPLANES.
 
2012-08-03 06:08:59 PM

DicksWii: Flint Ironstag: And remember a F-117 was shot down by a missile system that was designed in the sixties.

That was when the 117s were flying the same flight pattern every nite and after that incident, the ops group finally got their shiat together and realized stealth does not equal invincible. They created a special flight path analysis and planning system which mitigated that glaring oversight.


Stealthy doesnt mean "hole in the sky" if you intersect anything with a missile you will get a kill....Stealth is a factor in how easily you can intercept. If you put enough 1960's missiles in the air within a quarter mile of a plane you spotted with your eyes....you have a high chance of a kill.
 
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