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(Federal Times)   Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif) calls the Greatest Generation a bunch of Ponzi schemers   (blogs.federaltimes.com) divider line 116
    More: Dumbass, greatest generation, plotters, Darrell Issa, Ponzi, Ponzi schemes, Tom Brokaw  
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2666 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Jul 2012 at 2:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-31 01:43:11 AM
Sadly, I live in this tool's district. From insurance fraud to tax scams, he's a classic far-right 1% GOPer. There are GOP politicians who are honest and ethical, he's not one of them.
 
2012-07-31 02:02:19 AM

JustSurfin: Sadly, I live in this tool's district. From insurance fraud to tax scams, he's a classic far-right 1% GOPer. There are GOP politicians who are honest and ethical, he's not one of them.



I'm both shocked and outraged that you would accuse a former car thief of ethical lapses.
 
2012-07-31 02:15:51 AM
Issa hola
 
2012-07-31 07:38:36 AM
They kind of are. I mean, not really, it isn't a Ponzi scheme, but people on SS knew it wasn't working right for years and there would be a problem, and they refused to fix it because it would mean they would have to pay more taxes, so they chose to ride it out on the backs of the next ones in until it fails. That resembles a Ponzi scheme.

Of course, Issa's solution is to throw up his hands and refuse to fix it, which is still possible, but it would mean tax increases, so he doesn't wanna. He's as much at fault as they are.
 
2012-07-31 08:07:15 AM
"They created Social Security, they created Medicare on their watch, [they] created Medicaid." All of that, Issa continued, "without resources or funding."

So how did you vote on Bush's two unfunded wars and the unfunded prescription coverage, you worthless douche?
 
2012-07-31 09:17:36 AM
Excellent idea. Piss off the oldsters. Those people NEVER vote.
 
2012-07-31 11:21:47 AM
If you are going to blame the World War 2 Generation for anything, then blame them for what they actually responsible: raising an entire generation of selfish, narcissistic assholes who plundered economy to buy sports cars and McMansions and then promptly decided to fark the subsequent three generations to pay for their greed.
 
2012-07-31 11:41:13 AM
He Issa dick.
 
2012-07-31 11:49:00 AM
Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Medicare is a Ponzi scheme.

The difference is only magnitude. Compared to Social Security and Medicare, Bernie Madoff was small time.
 
2012-07-31 12:56:38 PM

SlothB77: Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Medicare is a Ponzi scheme.

The difference is only magnitude. Compared to Social Security and Medicare, Bernie Madoff was small time.


a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com

It's not offensive because you believe it. You are indeed stupid enough to believe it. It's stupid because you expect others to believe it -as if everyone else is that stupid.

 


In contrast to a Ponzi scheme, dependent upon an unsustainable progression, a common financial arrangement is the so-called "pay-as-you-go" system. Some private pension systems, as well as Social Security, have used this design. A pay-as-you-go system can be visualized as a pipeline, with money from current contributors coming in the front end and money to current beneficiaries paid out the back end.



[...]



If the demographics of the population were stable, then a pay-as-you-go system would not have demographically-driven financing ups and downs and no thoughtful person would be tempted to compare it to a Ponzi arrangement. However, since population demographics tend to rise and fall, the balance in pay-as-you-go systems tends to rise and fall as well. During periods when more new participants are entering the system than are receiving benefits there tends to be a surplus in funding (as in the early years of Social Security). During periods when beneficiaries are growing faster than new entrants (as will happen when the baby boomers retire), there tends to be a deficit. This vulnerability to demographic ups and downs is one of the problems with pay-as-you-go financing. But this problem has nothing to do with Ponzi schemes, or any other fraudulent form of financing, it is simply the nature of pay-as-you-go systems.



[...]



Social Security is and always has been either a "pay-as-you-go" system or one that was partially advance-funded. Its structure, logic, and mode of operation have nothing in common with Ponzi schemes or chain letters or pyramid schemes. [Social Security Administration, January 2009]


 
2012-07-31 01:16:22 PM

SlothB77: Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Medicare is a Ponzi scheme.

The difference is only magnitude. Compared to Social Security and Medicare, Bernie Madoff was small time.


Disagree with it if you want. But at least get your analogies correct. You're merely using "Ponzi Scheme" as an ad hominem, and irresponsibly so.

As if that surprises anyone.
 
2012-07-31 01:46:57 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: This vulnerability to demographic ups and downs is one of the problems with pay-as-you-go financing.


First, we don't have the money to cover ourselves during demographic swings. When the baby boomers retire, we are unable to keep Social Security and Medicare funded without changing the retirement age, raising the tax rate, reducing benefits or some combination of those. The Social Security tax has increased over time and will continue to do so. The retirement age has increased over time as well.
What the baby boomers will receive from Social Security versus what they paid in will be a MUCH better deal than what you or I will receive from Social Security versus what we paid in.
And every generation will get less in return for what they paid in because the program will be running larger deficits and need to raise the retirement age (so you have to work longer), increase the tax rate (you have to pay more in), and reduce the benefits (you get less back) you receive when you retire.

And guess what people will choose to do as the costs to them for participating in Social Security increase while the benefits they get from Social Security continue to decrease? They will opt out of the program. More and more people will stop participating. People will opt out by leaving the country, not working or getting paid under the table.

And once that happens, the demise of program occurs very quickly. SS taxes will have to be raised again, the retirement age increased, benefits decreased. Then more people opt out. Then SS taxes will have to be raised again, the retirement age increased, benefits decreased. Then more people opt out. And soon enough, the pyramid implodes.

And don't even argue 'people can't opt out.' When the program becomes insufferable enough, people will find a way to opt. There is always a way to opt out.
 
2012-07-31 02:00:10 PM
What a horrible man.
 
2012-07-31 02:22:10 PM

SlothB77: And don't even argue 'people can't opt out.' When the program becomes insufferable enough, people will find a way to opt. There is always a way to opt out.


And here's the derp.

Go ahead and opt out. I'm sure we'll be reading your posts from prison.
 
2012-07-31 02:25:32 PM
They don't really know what a ponzi scheme is, do they?

/In a party full of punchable faces, D-bag Darrell Issa has consistently placed in my personal top 10 for a long time now.
 
2012-07-31 02:26:55 PM
All of that, Issa continued, "without resources or funding."

Actually we taxed the hell out of rich people and it was working just fine.
 
2012-07-31 02:27:08 PM

SlothB77: There is always a way to opt out.


Sure: make $0 from American sources, move somewhere else, and renounce your citizenship on the way out the door.

// and then tell me how much of a patriot you are
 
2012-07-31 02:27:51 PM
Sorry Issa, but that's your generation THE BOOMERS.

They took the inherited wealth of the greatest generation, everything they produced themselves, and sold their children, while uttering fairy tales to coax them into debt; all so they could shove more plastic shiat in their garage and a "luxury" car in their driveway.

And now that they're old they're kicking and screaming at the prospect of having to retire broke, and face death.

Frak you, and frak your shiatty, spoiled, materialistic generation.
 
2012-07-31 02:31:20 PM
Should have had the "obvious" tag on this one.
 
2012-07-31 02:32:39 PM

SlothB77: People will opt out by leaving the country, not working or getting paid under the table.


"I'd rather opt out of this program and not receive an income or benefits from that program than pay a small amount to it in taxes! Don't you DARE offer to pay an amount of my medical bills. DON'T YOU DARE!"

You are a complete moron. Complete.
 
2012-07-31 02:33:37 PM
SlothB77: Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Medicare is a Ponzi scheme.

The difference is only magnitude. Compared to Social Security and Medicare, Bernie Madoff was small time.


Such a Ponzi scheme that Wallstreet is salivating at the idea of getting to skim fee's off administering it in the private market.

Even current estimates say that it's nothing to worry about for 75 years, and even then the payments would just be reduced. Say the conservative estimates are right and it'll be a problem in 45-50 years...

50 years ago was 1962. A fraking LOT has happened since 1962.... both in politics, in innovation and the economy.

The tools saying we need to scrap it, or reform it and make it private as liars that can't wait to get their hands on it. Or fools that really want to hand over their retirement to snakes. There's a reason why real attempts to fix it are blocked, because fixing it isn't the goal. getting rid of it is.
 
2012-07-31 02:33:53 PM
You guys confuse me, so its ok for you to bash "The Greatest Generation" for not leaving their jobs and leaving you with a govt debt that wont be likely paid off in your lifetime, that voted into place people who put policies in place that make your lives miserable?

Im confused, or maybe its just because a person with an (R) by their name said it that you disagree?
 
2012-07-31 02:34:30 PM
He's right. Boomers too

/dra
 
2012-07-31 02:35:50 PM

TyrantII: Frak you, and frak your shiatty, spoiled, materialistic generation.


I say, I do agree with the above post, and have replicated its words so as to perpetuate the wisdom contained therein.
 
2012-07-31 02:35:59 PM
SS isn't the Ponzi scheme. Tax cuts to benefit the wealthy at the expense of future generations is.
 
2012-07-31 02:37:17 PM
"...the Republicans will join hands with the southern Democrats to try and repeal or undermine every social reform the New Deal has put in. The hue and cry against labor has already started! The republicans have not had an idea since Benjamin Harrison's time and the southern democrats have not had one since Appomattox---and I foresee an unofficial coalition of them running the country."

Esther Murray, in a letter to Eleanor Roosevelt, late 1942, cited in Lisa Cohen, All We Know: Three Lives (Farrar Strauss, 2012), p. 96. Link
 
2012-07-31 02:40:16 PM

SlothB77: Because People in power are Stupid: This vulnerability to demographic ups and downs is one of the problems with pay-as-you-go financing.

First, we don't have the money to cover ourselves during demographic swings. When the baby boomers retire, we are unable to keep Social Security and Medicare funded without changing the retirement age, raising the tax rate, reducing benefits or some combination of those. The Social Security tax has increased over time and will continue to do so. The retirement age has increased over time as well.
What the baby boomers will receive from Social Security versus what they paid in will be a MUCH better deal than what you or I will receive from Social Security versus what we paid in.
And every generation will get less in return for what they paid in because the program will be running larger deficits and need to raise the retirement age (so you have to work longer), increase the tax rate (you have to pay more in), and reduce the benefits (you get less back) you receive when you retire.

And guess what people will choose to do as the costs to them for participating in Social Security increase while the benefits they get from Social Security continue to decrease? They will opt out of the program. More and more people will stop participating. People will opt out by leaving the country, not working or getting paid under the table.

And once that happens, the demise of program occurs very quickly. SS taxes will have to be raised again, the retirement age increased, benefits decreased. Then more people opt out. Then SS taxes will have to be raised again, the retirement age increased, benefits decreased. Then more people opt out. And soon enough, the pyramid implodes.

And don't even argue 'people can't opt out.' When the program becomes insufferable enough, people will find a way to opt. There is always a way to opt out.


Love it or leave it.
 
2012-07-31 02:40:50 PM

1nsanilicious: You guys confuse me, so its ok for you to bash "The Greatest Generation" for not leaving their jobs and leaving you with a govt debt that wont be likely paid off in your lifetime, that voted into place people who put policies in place that make your lives miserable?

Im confused, or maybe its just because a person with an (R) by their name said it that you disagree?


yes, you are confused, the greatest generation is considered the parents of the boomers, you know, the people who were part of the strongest middle class we ever had and responsible for the massive economic growth of that era. Darryl Issa is a part of the Boomers, the generation that came after that pretty much has squandered everything their parents had built for them and has worked feverishly to destroy there being anything but debt to leave to the next generations.
 
2012-07-31 02:45:11 PM

Epoch_Zero: SlothB77: People will opt out by leaving the country, not working or getting paid under the table.

"I'd rather opt out of this program and not receive an income or benefits from that program than pay a small amount to it in taxes! Don't you DARE offer to pay an amount of my medical bills. DON'T YOU DARE!"

You are a complete moron. Complete.


What I will receive in benefits and paid medical bills will be dwarfed 3 or 4-fold by what i pay into it. That's a raw deal.

But hey, if this program is so great, make it voluntary. Every American is forced into participating in Social Security or get thrown in jail. That's how great the program is. If it were voluntary, no one would do it. So they have to threaten us with jailtime to get us to participate.
 
2012-07-31 02:49:22 PM

SlothB77: If it were voluntary, no one would do it.


Is this supposed to be an important point you're making?
 
2012-07-31 02:51:09 PM
Those people suffered through the Great Depression & World War II.

So they did their best to build a better, stronger nation with social safety nets & sane fiscal policy so that the poorest among us won't have to suffer like they did. Because of this, their kids the Baby Boomers, grew up in one of the most comfortable & economically explosive times we've ever seen in this country.

And now they're trying to undo all their parents did that gave them such great lives.

I fear for the future in which my kids will live. Maybe they'll be our next Greatest Generation.
 
2012-07-31 02:52:06 PM
I get the feeling he may have just awakened the AARP dragon.
 
2012-07-31 02:54:54 PM

SlothB77: But hey, if this program is so great, make it voluntary. Every American is forced into participating in Social Security or get thrown in jail. That's how great the program is. If it were voluntary, no one would do it. So they have to threaten us with jailtime to get us to participate.


cache.ohinternet.com
 
2012-07-31 02:55:07 PM
Issa, you mean the former "alleged" car thief who invented the Viper car alarm system?
 
2012-07-31 02:55:25 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: SlothB77: If it were voluntary, no one would do it.

Is this supposed to be an important point you're making?


Sure. People voluntarily contribute to the IRS, the military, HHS, Congress, international aid, DHS, the SEC, SBA, NIH, NIST and Dept of Ed (among so much more), but Social Security? Such a wasteful program with questionable success rates. No one likes that one...

// protip for SlothB77: if we made taxes 100% voluntary or directed-donation only, nothing would get adequate funding
 
2012-07-31 02:56:41 PM
Don't forget that SS tax is limited to the first 90 something 1000 of income. If you are rich, you get the benefit and don't pay into the program.

Remove the income cap on SS tax and there might be more money in the fund. might.

/won't happen
 
2012-07-31 03:01:35 PM

farker99: Don't forget that SS tax is limited to the first 90 something 1000 of income. If you are rich, you get the benefit and don't pay into the program.

Remove the income cap on SS tax and there might be more money in the fund. might.

/won't happen


SS benefits are capped and the formula for benefits is slanted towards lower income taxpayers.
 
2012-07-31 03:03:25 PM

SlothB77: Every American is forced into participating in Social Security or get thrown in jail. That's how great the program is. If it were voluntary, no one would do it. So they have to threaten us with jailtime to get us to participate.


That's what I say about wearing pants in public parks. Government doesn't need to come over and tell me to hide what God gave me, and if I want to sling it towards someone's girlfriend, that's my right as an American. If I get splinters, that's my business.
 
2012-07-31 03:04:26 PM
www.ssa.gov
 
2012-07-31 03:04:59 PM

SlothB77: Because People in power are Stupid: This vulnerability to demographic ups and downs is one of the problems with pay-as-you-go financing.

First, we don't have the money to cover ourselves during demographic swings. When the baby boomers retire, we are unable to keep Social Security and Medicare funded without changing the retirement age, raising the tax rate, reducing benefits or some combination of those.


You just named three ways of "covering ourselves".
 
2012-07-31 03:05:22 PM

farker99: Don't forget that SS tax is limited to the first 90 something 1000 of income. If you are rich, you get the benefit and don't pay into the program.


It's currently capped at $110,100.
 
2012-07-31 03:06:19 PM

mcreadyblue: SS benefits are capped and the formula for benefits is slanted towards lower income taxpayers.


Yes, because SS taxes aren't capped at all either.
 
2012-07-31 03:09:40 PM

SlothB77: What I will receive in benefits and paid medical bills will be dwarfed 3 or 4-fold by what i pay into it. That's a raw deal.

But hey, if this program is so great, make it voluntary. Every American is forced into participating in Social Security or get thrown in jail. That's how great the program is. If it were voluntary, no one would do it. So they have to threaten us with jailtime to get us to participate.


disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com
Really? 'Cos this jerkoff up here compares to slavery and 9/11 and Auschwitz all at once, and yet, with all his pay, with all the money I'm certain he's soundly invested after 2 decades working for the federal government that he just hates so, he collects a Social Security check. Just like his alleged idol Ayn Rand did. Damn the federal government and their forcing sovereign citizens to take their money!
 
2012-07-31 03:11:16 PM

SlothB77: Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Medicare is a Ponzi scheme.

The difference is only magnitude. Compared to Social Security and Medicare, Bernie Madoff was small time.


No more so than US military spending is a Ponzi scheme.
 
2012-07-31 03:18:24 PM

Ennuipoet: If you are going to blame the World War 2 Generation for anything, then blame them for what they actually responsible: raising an entire generation of selfish, narcissistic assholes who plundered economy to buy sports cars and McMansions and then promptly decided to fark the subsequent three generations to pay for their greed.


To be fair, if I was hanging out in 1945 and someone were to ask me what the end effect of enacting a bill that gave half the country a college education and bootstrapped like 80% of it into the middle class, I'm pretty sure "their kids will grow up to be self-entitled whiny douches incapable of recognizing or voting for competent policy" would not have been on my list. So I can't necessarily fault them for seeing it coming.

Or for having way too many kids, for that matter. That 80% of the nation that went from wage slavery to dying of cholera in a company town in the 1920s to suddenly prosperous working professionals in the 1950s had a tradition of large families for a reason, and they'd all grown up in families with 7-15 kids and then seen a bunch of their friends gunned down in a gigantic war, so "the increased resource consumption combined with a dramatic upswing in population will fark the economy and the environment" probably wasn't something i'd have called in advance either.

It's sort of a lack of foreknowledge thing, the war generation was exploring pretty new ground at the time, which is why folk back then with five kids raising them to expect prosperity were the greatest generation and someone with five kids raising them to expect automatic prosperity in 2005 needs to be slaughtered like a pig and thrown on a bonfire with the other useless people for the sake of the meme pool.
 
2012-07-31 03:18:53 PM

GAT_00: They kind of are. I mean, not really, it isn't a Ponzi scheme, but people on SS knew it wasn't working right for years and there would be a problem, and they refused to fix it because it would mean they would have to pay more taxes, so they chose to ride it out on the backs of the next ones in until it fails. That resembles a Ponzi scheme.


SS has been "fixed" repeatedly with higher taxes, the last time under Reagan. Problem is, the money wasn't put into any sort of productive investment, it was just borrowed and spent, leaving IOUs in the "trust fund". Now those IOUs are coming due and the cupboard is bare.
 
2012-07-31 03:20:56 PM
The only difference between Social Security and a Ponzi scheme is in how the funds are distributed. In a Ponzi scheme early investors make money while late investors lose money. In the Social Security System, money is just constantly transferred from late investors to early investors with no promise of higher returns on their investment. Some people make money and some people lose money, but it has nothing to do with when they joined the scheme. And that's it. That's the only difference.
 
2012-07-31 03:24:00 PM

TyrantII: The tools saying we need to scrap it, or reform it and make it private as liars that can't wait to get their hands on it. Or fools that really want to hand over their retirement to snakes. There's a reason why real attempts to fix it are blocked, because fixing it isn't the goal. getting rid of it is.


Inflation adjusted average annual rate of return on Social Security for person born in 1944, retiring in 2010 (at age 66), averaging $50,000 in income: 1.72% (if single male), 2.19% (if single female) 4.24% (one earner couple), 2.17% (two earner couple).

Inflation adjusted average annual rate of return on S&P 500, 1968-2010 (covering investments from age 18 to retirement at age 66): 4.84% (with dividend reinvestment, regardless of gender or marital status).

The private investment turns out to be the better deal for Mr. and Mrs. America, returning between 12% and 64% more per year. (Oh, and the money in a private account is actually your property. Social Security... isn't.)
 
2012-07-31 03:25:32 PM
 
2012-07-31 03:25:49 PM
He would be correct if he were talking about the Baby Boomers (aka the Worst Generation).

They get the American empire handed to them at the peak of its power and glory, only to run it into the ground and leave their children with a $15 trillion national debt. All while demanding that we keep paying their social security checks on top of their $15 trillion in debt.

The Baby Boomers are about to pull off the greatest dine and dash in the history of the world.

We ought to start redirecting all social security checks that would go to Baby Boomers to instead pay down their national debt.
 
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