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(Uproxx)   Your sarcastic guide to alleged plot holes in 'The Dark Knight Rises'   (uproxx.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing, pet peeves  
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12072 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Jul 2012 at 11:42 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-31 08:54:31 AM  

Jim_Callahan: but also kind of the one sane man who realizes he's in a stupid action movie/comic strip on some subconscious level and makes the conscious decision to roll with it and swing for the fences. The sheer quantity of farks not given always makes this sort of character a fan favorite in a medium aimed primarily at 13-25-year-olds that like movies about punching shiat.


That is a very astute analysis.
 
2012-07-31 08:58:30 AM  

Imperious Rex!: BafflerMeal: Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...

Yeah....except that he did throw that giant pile of coiled rope back down into the pit.


I always thought it would be an awesome prank to cut two different versions of the same movie and not tell anybody, only changing minor details. Maybe they finally pulled it off?
Because seriously, how the hell could somebody have noticed the big pile of freaking rope, but then missed Bruce Wayne tossing the rope down to them?

That also helps answer the question of how he got back to Gotham. Bane has powerful enemies. Those powerful enemies now owe Batman a favor.
 
2012-07-31 08:59:48 AM  

serial_crusher: Also keep in mind that we never see that there are any incompetent cops, just cops who aren't privy to the same information the audience is and jerk cops.

Um, they sent the entire police force into the sewers to look for Bane? That's pretty incompetent. Even if he hadn't trapped them down there, who were they counting on to stop all the regularly scheduled crimes happening on the surface?


What kind of city would do stupid things like that?
Maybe a city that needed the Goddamn Batman to watch over it.

/Considering the scale of event Bane had planned, using all of your forces to stop him might have seemed like a good idea at the time.
/As good an idea as dressing up in a costume instead of paying your old league of shadow contacts to do the patrolling for you.
/Its a superhero movie, not a documentary. Once you get past that you can eat the popcorn and enjoy it.
 
2012-07-31 09:02:17 AM  
The plot hole that slightly bugs me is the bat cave. If Bruce hasn't been Batman since the end of the last movie which was 8 years before this movie, why bother even building the cave?

I'll suspend disbelief in that Wayne Manor was almost completed by the end of the 2nd movie, or at least the foundation in the corner was shored up. So after hanging up the cape and cowl and not being involved with the world for the last 8 years, what foundation was there for Alfred to say, "Its been a long time since you've been down here," when aside from putting away his toys he never really had a reason to even go down there in the first place.
 
2012-07-31 09:06:00 AM  

beerdini: The plot hole that slightly bugs me is the bat cave. If Bruce hasn't been Batman since the end of the last movie which was 8 years before this movie, why bother even building the cave?


The manor burned down but the cave wasn't affected. That's why they fled to the cave when the manor was burning
 
2012-07-31 09:07:32 AM  
The trilogy as a whole was entertaining, and I guess that is the best you can ask for.

But for a next installment of Bats, I think maybe a period piece set in like the 40's would be really fun. Make Bats more of the detective, and have his gadgets be something that while for the time may be advanced, but for us would seem a more realistic.

Thinking along of the line of that Spiderman Noir version they did.
 
2012-07-31 09:17:47 AM  
I want to know why Superman left a con trail.
 
2012-07-31 09:17:58 AM  
For all the people talking about escaping the city with the bomb - while clearly nuclear we have no other clue as to how powerful the bomb ACTUALLY was.

The only details we have are the assurances of a mass-murderer suicidal terrorist with a severe drug problem who was making a public statement intended to introduce fear and uncertainty to the city and country. And the fact that Talia made her plan around it.

Why would you assume Bane was telling the truth? Or even knew the truth?
 
2012-07-31 09:18:38 AM  
It's butthurt, pure and simple. Either Nolan isn't living the artistic life that critics demand he does so they can vicariously live through him, or he didn't follow up a classic with nearly freakish connections to the American subconscious with another one.

"That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call 'The Prestige'."
 
2012-07-31 09:19:59 AM  

Wellon Dowd: I want to know why Superman left a con trail.


A full bladder at the sound barrier can lead to issues even for a man with a steel urethra.
 
2012-07-31 09:20:28 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Therefore, if there were some way to actually create a fusion reaction, which there must be given that it is a fusion reactor we're talking about, it would probably explode with just as much if not more energy than a conventional fission reactor could.


Want to know how I know you know nothing about how fission reactors work?

Fission reactors don't explode due to a runaway chain reaction of a critical mass chunk of fissile material. Fission reactors "explode" when the controlled fission reaction loses control, the rods overheat and the cooling water surrounding them boils away and creates a high pressure steam that eventually builds to the point that it overwhelms the concrete containment shell and explodes. If you were to remove the containment shell ahead of time and drain all the water, the fuel rods would overheat and melt, releasing massive amounts of radiation in the process, but there would be no explosion, just a very hot hole in the ground.

The only way the exploding fusion cell makes any sense at all is if the fusion reaction were entirely contained within the piece they removed and it was being held in check by some sort of electromagnetic containment also powered solely by the piece they removed. One could be powered by the other IF there was some way of converting the energy released by the fusion reaction directly into electricity, but using today's standards, that's even more far fetched that creating the fusion reactor to begin with. But even then it couldn't possibly be using ALL of the energy released, so it would have to go somewhere as waste heat, meaning the entire thing would turn into a pool of molten slag the moment it was removed. If the cell output was reduced to a level that it was only powering the containment then there wouldn't be much left for a city-leveling explosion.
 
2012-07-31 09:26:15 AM  

Tiber727: How did Bane know about the secret warehouse under Wayne Enterprises?

If your greatest fear about a prototype nuclear reactor is that it can be turned into a weapon, why make it removable from the container that prevents that from happening? And why build this fancy display that will perfectly count down to when it blows up?

How did that copter manage to outrun missiles anyway?

And lastly, why did Batman decide to forgo the use of pretty much all gadgets to engage the bad guy in a straight-up fistfight?


Because he worked for Talia, who had been there......
 
2012-07-31 09:37:52 AM  
Just thought I'd chip in and repeat a comment I've read on another forum:

(Paraphrasing) The timer on the "bomb" wasn't counting down to detonation, just to when the core would become unstable, so it's feasible that Batman actually had more time to get away from Gotham.

You might argue that that's incorrect, but personally I think if you're prepared to drag up various articles and journal articles about the behavior of fusion reactors, then you're really going out of your way to not enjoy yourself.

/Enjoyed the film, quibbles and all
//Only thing that bothers me is I would have liked another movie to slip in before the League of Shadows return
 
2012-07-31 09:39:27 AM  

SomeAmerican: SilentBobCDN: My girlfriends biggest issue with TDKR was a two parter:

First, about the likelyhood of the helicopter travelling at least 3 miles out into the ocean carrying the aforementioned "bomb" in the short period of time (I didnt have time to get my stopwatch out to time it) before it exploded, leading me to...

Secondly, no one commented at all about what massive damage that bomb has done to the Atlantic, or the fallout that is likely to rain back on New Yo- I mean Gotham.

We were bothered by this too. If I remember right, in the movie they said the fusion reactor had been converted into a 400 megaton bomb. Which then detonated safely a few miles from the city.

Except that a much smaller 25 megaton bomb would level everything in a 10 mile radius. Plus, if you are downwind, the fallout will kill anything within 90 miles within a few days. Oh, and the 500 mph shock wave would cause a tsunami.

Also, it was really impressive how their unstable, decaying reactor had such a precise timer on it, counting down over months to the exact moment it would lose containment and blow.


You're not remembering right. It had a 4-megaton yield. And it's specifically stated in the movie to have a blast radius of 6 miles.
 
2012-07-31 09:49:01 AM  
Now my one issue with the movie?

How Lt. Gordon is still alive at the end when he was trapped in a giant metal box with a highly radioactive bomb. The truck could set off geiger counters from the outside, yet he's climbing all over it and planting radio blockers on it and falling off bridges with it.

He should've at least been losing hair by the end.
 
2012-07-31 10:10:26 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Now my one issue with the movie?

How Lt. Gordon is still alive at the end when he was trapped in a giant metal box with a highly radioactive bomb. The truck could set off geiger counters from the outside, yet he's climbing all over it and planting radio blockers on it and falling off bridges with it.

He should've at least been losing hair by the end.



The twist is that everyone in Gotham dies from cancer 6 months later. The end.
 
2012-07-31 10:10:34 AM  
Was it Bane and Talia's plan to die along with the bomb explosion all along? Why would they make a plan like that?
 
2012-07-31 10:10:36 AM  

alwaysjaded: FTFA: My problem with the articles I've been seeing is that they try to elevate personal dislike or minor errors into a gross artistic mistake. Just like Jim Emerson's disgraceful video about how The Dark Knight had, like, totally crappy editing, this isn't about the movies. It's about appointing oneself the supreme arbiter of taste above all those disgusting little plebs.

I really couldn't have agreed with that more. There's quite a few Farkers that think that their opinions are the final word on everything. The comment is usually filled with a lot of name calling and cries to the heavens about how they're the only ones stuck with the intellectual burden of telling all of us how we should really feel about a movie.


I never understood how Watchmen became all about big blue wang.
 
2012-07-31 10:12:17 AM  

Wellon Dowd: I want to know why Superman left a con trail.


His powers of Super Swindling.
 
2012-07-31 10:13:51 AM  

Samwise Gamgee: Was it Bane and Talia's plan to die along with the bomb explosion all along? Why would they make a plan like that?


Well, in Bane's case, because Talia told him to.

As for Talia, just write her off as totally insane, and be done with it.
 
2012-07-31 10:14:33 AM  
Now I have a question for you: Why would a man with a shirt that says "Genius at Work" be watching a movie for children?
 
2012-07-31 10:15:34 AM  

StrangeQ: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Therefore, if there were some way to actually create a fusion reaction, which there must be given that it is a fusion reactor we're talking about, it would probably explode with just as much if not more energy than a conventional fission reactor could.

Want to know how I know you know nothing about how fission reactors work?

Fission reactors don't explode due to a runaway chain reaction of a critical mass chunk of fissile material. Fission reactors "explode" when the controlled fission reaction loses control, the rods overheat and the cooling water surrounding them boils away and creates a high pressure steam that eventually builds to the point that it overwhelms the concrete containment shell and explodes. If you were to remove the containment shell ahead of time and drain all the water, the fuel rods would overheat and melt, releasing massive amounts of radiation in the process, but there would be no explosion, just a very hot hole in the ground.

The only way the exploding fusion cell makes any sense at all is if the fusion reaction were entirely contained within the piece they removed and it was being held in check by some sort of electromagnetic containment also powered solely by the piece they removed. One could be powered by the other IF there was some way of converting the energy released by the fusion reaction directly into electricity, but using today's standards, that's even more far fetched that creating the fusion reactor to begin with. But even then it couldn't possibly be using ALL of the energy released, so it would have to go somewhere as waste heat, meaning the entire thing would turn into a pool of molten slag the moment it was removed. If the cell output was reduced to a level that it was only powering the containment then there wouldn't be much left for a city-leveling explosion.


Yea. That part of the movie lost me more than others. I dusted off the part of my brain that deals with sci fi plot holes and tropes, and told myself it's an antimatter-catalyzed reactor core, exotic technical requirements not-withstanding (It's a movie, and it's the goddamn Batman). Reactor isn't running, but the antimatter is still there (albeit in absurdly large quantities). Batteries fail, magnetics are lost, antimatter goes boom along with the lithium/deuterium core.

That's all a stretch mixed with a healthy dose of pseudo-science, I know, but it got me over that disbelief hump.
 
2012-07-31 10:16:28 AM  
There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.
 
2012-07-31 10:21:16 AM  

Samwise Gamgee: Was it Bane and Talia's plan to die along with the bomb explosion all along? Why would they make a plan like that?


Because they're fanatics. Talia was willing to die to fulfill her father's ideas. Bane was willing to die for Talia.
 
2012-07-31 10:22:29 AM  
Just saw it last night. My only complaint was the hollywood ending. The trilogy, and especially the Batman franchise, deserved better than to have everything tied up with a pretty bow. Let him be dead, ffs. More emotional impact that way, and then you know it's farking over.

/oh, and fallout. Those people were still farked.
 
2012-07-31 10:23:45 AM  

Slaxl: There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.


That's because there won't be. The entire point of that scene (and setting Levitt up as a competent, but scorned by the justice system, detective) was to leave Gotham with a caped crusader. Not THE caped crusader mind you, but someone that can still protect Gotham since Batman is gone. Nolan is done with the Batman franchise.
 
2012-07-31 10:25:23 AM  

doglover: Fusion doesn't explode. Hydrogen bombs only explode because a fission bomb is used first to make the hydrogen detonate in a very big and uncontrolled fusion reaction that ends fairly quickly but is epic in scale.

A fusion reactor would have so little material inside that even if we all farked off and just let that shiat blow up, it probably wouldn't even damage the reactor itself. Especially considering that it's really hard to make things keep fusing. Atoms don't spontaneously do that without stellar amounts of gravity.

So the whole premise of "We've got a nuke." is silly. Even if you could make it thus, it wouldn't work like that. At best, it would be anchored to the reactor at all times.


I understand the complaint, but it's a fictional fusion reactor set in a universe where the laws of physics clearly don't work exactly like they do in our own (otherwise 99% of his gadgets would fail, too), so, yeah, even though this is probably DNDTR, I'll give it a pass.
 
2012-07-31 10:25:48 AM  

chopit: The trilogy, and especially the Batman franchise, deserved better than to have everything tied up with a pretty bow. Let him be dead, ffs. More emotional impact that way, and then you know it's farking over.


I thought giving everyone a happy ending was a great "twist" in an otherwise bleak series.
 
2012-07-31 10:26:09 AM  
My only two real "wtf" moments were Gordon surviving in the back of that truck when it crashed and in the second fight, Bane punching through concrete pillars during their second fight. I can pretty much overlook everything else but those two things, for whatever reason, really bothered me.
 
2012-07-31 10:26:27 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: They didn't really address what happened to Joker. And yes, I know they couldn't very well have a flashback to a scene where batman or someone offs The Joker for the obvious reason.


A lot of Bane's speeches sounded like things the Joker would have said. I kept thinking about how the movie would have been different if Heath hadn't died. It was a good but not great movie, but would have been ridiculously good with the Joker.
 
2012-07-31 10:27:47 AM  

Mugato: Britney Spear's Speculum: They didn't really address what happened to Joker

There's not much to say, he's sitting in Arkham Asylum. I don' think Bane let those people out.


Scarecrow was the judge, wasn't he?
 
2012-07-31 10:31:03 AM  

chopit: Just saw it last night. My only complaint was the hollywood ending. The trilogy, and especially the Batman franchise, deserved better than to have everything tied up with a pretty bow. Let him be dead, ffs. More emotional impact that way, and then you know it's farking over.

/oh, and fallout. Those people were still farked.


Eastern seaboard. Bomb to the east of the city by miles. Wind blows east. People don't die of cancer in gotham.

Nuclear weapons are not magic cancer creating devices. We have lots of folks in the last century who have been exposed during various testing bombs (including some guys who stood directly under an airburst) who did just fine.
 
2012-07-31 10:31:39 AM  

rtaylor92: My only two real "wtf" moments were Gordon surviving in the back of that truck when it crashed and in the second fight, Bane punching through concrete pillars during their second fight. I can pretty much overlook everything else but those two things, for whatever reason, really bothered me.


Hey I was wondering how Gordon survived all that radiation exposure.

I chalked Bane's punching power up to a combination of pain and adrenaline. He just had his mask punctured/broken by Batman, so the pain he was experiencing would be immeasurable. Add in the adrenaline from the pain and the massive fight, and it's not entirely unbelievable he could knock some plaster off a pillar. It wasn't like he punched straight through them.
 
2012-07-31 10:32:42 AM  

Bullseyed: Scarecrow was the judge, wasn't he?


Yeah, I didn't know he was in Arkham. I figured he was in regular prison because he wasn't really crazy. He was working with Ra's al Ghoul to gas the city but he thought it was a hostage thing.
 
2012-07-31 10:38:13 AM  

Solon Isonomia: The one continuity error that bothered me was the motorcycle chase. Starts off in the middle of the day and ends in the dead of night despite the program needing only minutes, not hours, to be complete.


Yeah I didn't have any problems really with "plot holes," just that continuity error. It could make sense considering they could have been in that tunnel for awhile, but no way it goes from that bright before the market closes to that dark unless its the dead of winter which it wasn't
 
2012-07-31 10:39:03 AM  

Slaxl: There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.


Robin The Boy Wonder has never been named "Robin" That was just Blake's real first name, I imagine it was a cheeky nod to the character, especially when Blake said he never liked the name. If that's ever played on, it'll be with Blake as Nightwing, not Robin.
 
2012-07-31 10:41:22 AM  

thecpt: Yeah I didn't have any problems really with "plot holes," just that continuity error. It could make sense considering they could have been in that tunnel for awhile, but no way it goes from that bright before the market closes to that dark unless its the dead of winter which it wasn't


Didn't notice that. Hard to believe that could happen in a $250mill movie.
 
2012-07-31 10:45:12 AM  

Mugato: thecpt: Yeah I didn't have any problems really with "plot holes," just that continuity error. It could make sense considering they could have been in that tunnel for awhile, but no way it goes from that bright before the market closes to that dark unless its the dead of winter which it wasn't

Didn't notice that. Hard to believe that could happen in a $250mill movie.


Yea I didn't snap to it either, but it's pretty obvious now. I guess Nolan wanted to show off Batman's "I can turn off every light in this tunnel with one switch" switch.
 
2012-07-31 10:46:46 AM  

ODDwhun: So, wait, you were OK with the constantly stoned body-builder, the decades-away fusion reactor, the insane helicopter, the city totally cut off from the rest of America by a terrorist, and the high-level jewel thief in a unitard on the motorcycle with the spinny wheel firing Howitzer shells, but the guy in the Batsuit getting over a broken back in a few months... that's what bothers you, Captain Scientific Accuracy?

I loled.

So in a trilogy that is supposed to be "realistic" we're supposed to accept this just cuz?


Realistic. That "ic" at the end is kind of critical. If this is the kind of thing that's bothering you, let's just go straight to saying that Batman can't exist.
 
2012-07-31 10:57:04 AM  
Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?
 
2012-07-31 10:58:47 AM  

Wellon Dowd: I want to know why Superman left a con trail.


You mean chem trail, right?

Superman is putting chemicals in the air, which make us believe he's here to help!
 
2012-07-31 11:00:00 AM  

Mugato: thecpt: Yeah I didn't have any problems really with "plot holes," just that continuity error. It could make sense considering they could have been in that tunnel for awhile, but no way it goes from that bright before the market closes to that dark unless its the dead of winter which it wasn't

Didn't notice that. Hard to believe that could happen in a $250mill movie.


It really was just one continuity error, but I have only seen the movie once. It's a stupid hobby, but I enjoy looking for those errors and most movies make plenty (drinks that bounce between full and half full, extras being in different places within the same conversation). Making one noticeable mistake isn't bad at all, but time of day isn't a normal mistake. Battlefield LA made the same mistake, and no movies want to share commonality with that thing.
 
2012-07-31 11:02:04 AM  
This is obviously the worst movie ever.
 
2012-07-31 11:02:11 AM  

odinsposse: Samwise Gamgee: Was it Bane and Talia's plan to die along with the bomb explosion all along? Why would they make a plan like that?

Because they're fanatics. Talia was willing to die to fulfill her father's ideas. Bane was willing to die for Talia.


Fear of death was necessary to get out of the prison. That's why Bruce was able to make it without the rope, just like Talia.

Also, the old man said "you need to fear death to escape".

I thought it was stupid that after going through all of that, Talia turned into suicide bomber.

Take out Selina. Take out Blake. Take out Talia. Take out the Lt. Commish. That cuts off the fat. Then, flesh out Bane. Finally, change the ending to have Alfred look up in the cafe, and smile, but instead of seeing Bruce, cut to a picture of Trollface Nolan.

Roll credits.
 
2012-07-31 11:03:06 AM  

Slaxl: There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.


"Robin" was just a nod to the fans. He's not Robin.
 
2012-07-31 11:04:45 AM  

Funbags: Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?


I was told in another thread yesterday it was because there were no Home Depots down there.

Bane kept sending down food and shaving kits down to the police force that he was going to blow up anyway because he's a nice guy and who cares it's about a movie where a dude dresses up as a bat.
 
2012-07-31 11:04:57 AM  

scottydoesntknow: rtaylor92: My only two real "wtf" moments were Gordon surviving in the back of that truck when it crashed and in the second fight, Bane punching through concrete pillars during their second fight. I can pretty much overlook everything else but those two things, for whatever reason, really bothered me.

Hey I was wondering how Gordon survived all that radiation exposure.

I chalked Bane's punching power up to a combination of pain and adrenaline. He just had his mask punctured/broken by Batman, so the pain he was experiencing would be immeasurable. Add in the adrenaline from the pain and the massive fight, and it's not entirely unbelievable he could knock some plaster off a pillar. It wasn't like he punched straight through them.


That's why I like the venom aspect of Bane. His mask wasn't supposed to be an analgesic, but an addictive drug that made him super strong and fast. When the mask gets broken, he goes into some severe withdrawals almost immediately. It would definitely explain why his character looked smaller in the prison, yet so powerful and large when fighting batman. Other than, you know, body building.
 
2012-07-31 11:09:22 AM  

SpoilerAlert: Funbags: Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?

I was told in another thread yesterday it was because there were no Home Depots down there.

Bane kept sending down food and shaving kits down to the police force that he was going to blow up anyway because he's a nice guy and who cares it's about a movie where a dude dresses up as a bat.


Well, remember, Bane wanted the people of Gotham to feel like they had a chance of surviving. It would make sense to include the police in that. His whole plan involved making people build up their hope, and then at the last second, destroy them while he watches that look of determination turn into horror.
 
2012-07-31 11:13:03 AM  

GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?


He did.
 
2012-07-31 11:16:07 AM  

Nayman: The movie is an utter failure. Having Bane be the big bad guy and then only later discovering that he is just the lapdog of some evil woman completely ruins his character. Nothing he does is actually part of his plan. That means he's not a genius, only hired muscle. He's also apparently 50 years old if he was that much older than talia when they escaped.


I love how everyone seems to be under the impression that Bane is some mindless robot lapdog puppet of Talia in this film - like his entire existence is subordinate to her when in the film their relation is much more complex than some ridiculous puppetry. Bane is less 'love sick puppy' and more, 'doting father figure' for Talia, and in their scheming is brilliant and self-aware.

Bane is the one who can rally the men, and whip up a feverish devotion. Bane is the one that topples regimes. Bane is the one that directs the manpower. Bane is the one that eliminates Dagget.

Were you listening to the things that come out of Bane's mouth? His philosophy on power, on purpose and on drive? The man was not a lapdog.

Consider - Talia was a lone child in prison, whom he protected, paternally. He was inducted into the League of Shadows and took up her biological father's philosophy, and took it to the extremes. Watch again the way they act once she has been revealed, the gentle and intimate but completely non-sexual way that they interact. Then, finally take a look at when Talia gives him a direct order to leave Batman alive for the explosion. What does he do? Wait for her to leave and without hesitation goes to kill Batman - willing to indulge her fantasy of control over Batman's death, but not actually carry it out.

"Don't you do it, daddy!" I can almost see Talia stamping her little feet.
 
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