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(Uproxx)   Your sarcastic guide to alleged plot holes in 'The Dark Knight Rises'   (uproxx.com) divider line 252
    More: Amusing, pet peeves  
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12057 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Jul 2012 at 11:42 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-30 09:38:50 PM  
How Does Bruce Wayne Get Back to Gotham With No Resources?

He's the f***ing Batman. Seriously, if any fictional character could pull this one off, it's the f***ing Batman. Stop whining.

Ok, this one made me laugh.
 
2012-07-30 09:49:54 PM  
Fusion doesn't explode. Hydrogen bombs only explode because a fission bomb is used first to make the hydrogen detonate in a very big and uncontrolled fusion reaction that ends fairly quickly but is epic in scale.

A fusion reactor would have so little material inside that even if we all farked off and just let that shiat blow up, it probably wouldn't even damage the reactor itself. Especially considering that it's really hard to make things keep fusing. Atoms don't spontaneously do that without stellar amounts of gravity.

So the whole premise of "We've got a nuke." is silly. Even if you could make it thus, it wouldn't work like that. At best, it would be anchored to the reactor at all times.
 
2012-07-30 09:53:22 PM  
ROT13 for spoilers:

Fb jung nobhg nyy bs Onar'f tbbaf jub fgvyy xabj jub Ongzna vf? Fher, gurl'er cebonoyl yblny rabhtu abg gb gnyx sbe n juvyr. Ohg gurl unir ab yrnqref jvgu Onar naq Gnyvn bhg bs gur cvpgher.

Naq shegurezber, qvq Tbeqba yrnea abguvat? Ur yvrq nobhg Qrag naq cnvq gur cevpr sbe vg. Abj ur'f pbirevat hc sbe gur tbqqnza Ongzna.
 
2012-07-30 10:09:22 PM  

scottydoesntknow: How Does Bruce Wayne Get Back to Gotham With No Resources?

He's the f***ing Batman. Seriously, if any fictional character could pull this one off, it's the f***ing Batman. Stop whining.

Ok, this one made me laugh.


My girlfriend and I discussed this at length (as well as some of the others). The dude lived off the grid for 7 years in his youth. If anything, Bruce Wayne is resourceful. He was broke...but he really wasn't broke. He was also very rich. What do the very rich like to do with their money? Put it in offshore accounts. It's more than likely that he had stashed millions in offshore accounts only known to him (which also explains the ending in more ways than one).

As for boning Miranda Tate...hell yes he would have. I don't know how anyone could say he wouldn't have. He was broke, alone, and isolated....he probably would have boned someone a lot less hot and rich if they were available.

As for the stock exchange business. That would eventually be overturned but by the time order was restored to Gotham, Bruce Wayne was dead.
 
2012-07-30 10:15:10 PM  
Batman Totally Heals Too Quickly For a Real World Back Injury

So, wait, you were OK with the constantly stoned body-builder, the decades-away fusion reactor, the insane helicopter, the city totally cut off from the rest of America by a terrorist, and the high-level jewel thief in a unitard on the motorcycle with the spinny wheel firing Howitzer shells, but the guy in the Batsuit getting over a broken back in a few months... that's what bothers you, Captain Scientific Accuracy?


I loled.
 
2012-07-30 10:33:02 PM  
Very minor quibble: I enjoyed Bane's rousing anarchist speech while he's arranging to break the prison open. The speech rises to a dramatic crescendo, with all the prisoners shouting and cheering and drumming...and then I realized Bane is actually just standing outside by himself, monologuing in front of a half-dozen terrified, silent journalists.

(Why didn't the prison guards turn off the tvs? I can't imagine that most prisoners, no matter how violent, would be all too happy about being released from jail only to be trapped in the city where, presumably, some of them have their own families and friends.)

Props to the actor playing Bane, though. It can't be easy to convey that much emotion with half your face covered.
 
2012-07-30 11:08:12 PM  
FTFA: My problem with the articles I've been seeing is that they try to elevate personal dislike or minor errors into a gross artistic mistake. Just like Jim Emerson's disgraceful video about how The Dark Knight had, like, totally crappy editing, this isn't about the movies. It's about appointing oneself the supreme arbiter of taste above all those disgusting little plebs.

I really couldn't have agreed with that more. There's quite a few Farkers that think that their opinions are the final word on everything. The comment is usually filled with a lot of name calling and cries to the heavens about how they're the only ones stuck with the intellectual burden of telling all of us how we should really feel about a movie.
 
2012-07-30 11:32:05 PM  
Damn good article.

However, if someone doesn't like it, it's their opinion. If they tell me their objections, the best I can do is give them another view.
 
2012-07-30 11:33:21 PM  
Wow, that's a terribly written article.
 
2012-07-30 11:36:51 PM  

slayer199: scottydoesntknow: How Does Bruce Wayne Get Back to Gotham With No Resources?

He's the f***ing Batman. Seriously, if any fictional character could pull this one off, it's the f***ing Batman. Stop whining.

Ok, this one made me laugh.

My girlfriend and I discussed this at length (as well as some of the others). The dude lived off the grid for 7 years in his youth. If anything, Bruce Wayne is resourceful. He was broke...but he really wasn't broke. He was also very rich. What do the very rich like to do with their money? Put it in offshore accounts. It's more than likely that he had stashed millions in offshore accounts only known to him (which also explains the ending in more ways than one).

As for boning Miranda Tate...hell yes he would have. I don't know how anyone could say he wouldn't have. He was broke, alone, and isolated....he probably would have boned someone a lot less hot and rich if they were available.

As for the stock exchange business. That would eventually be overturned but by the time order was restored to Gotham, Bruce Wayne was dead.


Bruce Wayne was broke because he lost his job and had to stay at home with the kids, while his wife pursued her advertising career. He realized he could be Batman when he resisted the temptation to fukzizzle that one really hot neighborhood milf and threw his son's beloved "wooby" in the fire.
 
2012-07-30 11:46:44 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Very minor quibble: I enjoyed Bane's rousing anarchist speech while he's arranging to break the prison open. The speech rises to a dramatic crescendo, with all the prisoners shouting and cheering and drumming...and then I realized Bane is actually just standing outside by himself, monologuing in front of a half-dozen terrified, silent journalists.

(Why didn't the prison guards turn off the tvs? I can't imagine that most prisoners, no matter how violent, would be all too happy about being released from jail only to be trapped in the city where, presumably, some of them have their own families and friends.)

Props to the actor playing Bane, though. It can't be easy to convey that much emotion with half your face covered.


While I was very disappointed with the film I have to agree about Tom Hardy's performance. He was very, very good. The rest of the movie...meh.
 
2012-07-30 11:48:40 PM  
They forgot "Why would anyone go see a movie about a man who dresses up in a silly bat costume to fight crime?"
 
2012-07-30 11:48:54 PM  
The one continuity error that bothered me was the motorcycle chase. Starts off in the middle of the day and ends in the dead of night despite the program needing only minutes, not hours, to be complete.
 
2012-07-30 11:52:03 PM  
It's a comic book movie. None of it was suspension of disbelief breaking.
 
2012-07-30 11:54:26 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Very minor quibble: I enjoyed Bane's rousing anarchist speech while he's arranging to break the prison open. The speech rises to a dramatic crescendo, with all the prisoners shouting and cheering and drumming...and then I realized Bane is actually just standing outside by himself, monologuing in front of a half-dozen terrified, silent journalists.

(Why didn't the prison guards turn off the tvs? I can't imagine that most prisoners, no matter how violent, would be all too happy about being released from jail only to be trapped in the city where, presumably, some of them have their own families and friends.)

Props to the actor playing Bane, though. It can't be easy to convey that much emotion with half your face covered.


Only half his face? Try your whole face:

www.philipcoppens.com
 
2012-07-30 11:56:06 PM  
I thought Heath Ledger was the worst villian ever. Should've learned a thing or two from Revenge of the Fallen and done it right...
 
2012-07-30 11:57:03 PM  
TFA Batman Totally Heals Too Quickly For a Real World Back Injury

So, wait, you were OK with the constantly stoned body-builder, the decades-away fusion reactor, the insane helicopter, the city totally cut off from the rest of America by a terrorist, and the high-level jewel thief in a unitard on the motorcycle with the spinny wheel firing Howitzer shells, but the guy in the Batsuit getting over a broken back in a few months... that's what bothers you, Captain Scientific Accuracy?

I loled.


So in a trilogy that is supposed to be "realistic" we're supposed to accept this just cuz? I willing to believe more advance tech, but not more advanced healing, especially when it comes at the end of a rope.

/ fwiw I did also find it weird that Selina instinctively knew how to drive the batpod, especially since it does not drive like a "normal" motorcycle at all (watch the featurettes showing the stunt guys learning to drive it). You'd think Bruce would at least have to whisper "by the way, it does this spinny thing that could kill you if you don't do it right".
 
2012-07-30 11:57:54 PM  

Solon Isonomia: The one continuity error that bothered me was the motorcycle chase. Starts off in the middle of the day and ends in the dead of night despite the program needing only minutes, not hours, to be complete.


I will agree with you. However, in the fall and early winter, with overcast skies, night comes pretty fast. What is light at 5 p.m. can be night by 5:30. Or any time anywhere when overcast. Also, it's Gotham city. It's like chicago or new york. High rises aren't transparent. So not entirely a horrible shooting decision.
 
2012-07-30 11:58:49 PM  
Dane Cook laughs at this article.
 
2012-07-30 11:59:18 PM  

Mark Ratner: Bruce Wayne was broke because he lost his job and had to stay at home with the kids, while his wife pursued her advertising career. He realized he could be Batman when he resisted the temptation to fukzizzle that one really hot neighborhood milf and threw his son's beloved "wooby" in the fire.


Hehe, you magnificent bastard.
//Nice pair
 
2012-07-30 11:59:45 PM  
My sarcastic comments for a shiatty website with slideshow articles.
 
2012-07-31 12:02:11 AM  
I would also like to say the writer of this article answered a number of questions I never heard anyone ask. The biggest gripes I heard were how disappointing the fashion of Bane's death was, how Talia was completely overshadowed by Bane and it was hard to care about her by the time she was revealed as the main bad guy.

Also, every piece of fiction has a level of believability the writer has to be wary of. Even with fancy nuclear reactors and ridiculous over-the-top plot devices, the characters have to do things that make sense. So yes, it actually IS OK to wonder why Bruce could heal from a back injury so quickly. He is a human being, not superman, so it's normal to wonder why he defies all odds and heals from a horrific back injury with just a rope and some calisthenics.

Finally, articles like this are simply awful. Snark and sarcasm is great in spurts, but it has turned into a worrying trend in the blogging world where snark and mean-spiritedness are the goal rather than making a point or getting the reader to think. Everything has to be made fun of, even the people who make fun of those making fun of things. It's gotten beyond ridiculous. The guy needs to tone it down, a lot.
 
2012-07-31 12:02:21 AM  
How about how easily the barricades were blown apart? One or two small rockets blows through one or two cars and people can leave the city, and cops are free from the subways? They had THREE months and they couldn't move these tiny amounts of debris? Pathetic.

Bane must have had them kill every engineer and everyone with common sense or any construction skills/knowledge whatsoever.

And how did those cops survive down there for three months without doughnuts? Totally unrealistic. They would have made a suicide pact after 2 days and had the biggest Mexican Standoff this side of the cartels.
 
2012-07-31 12:06:52 AM  
For an ingenious scientist, Batman got fooled easily/repeatedly in the new flick.
 
2012-07-31 12:07:18 AM  
The problem with TDKRises, and the whole trilogy, is not that it's bad, it's that for some reason it's billed as absolutely farking brilliant when in fact it's just a well-executed summer action flick with some decent effects and writing that's pretty OK, if a bit on the simple and generic side.

It's like the guy bragging about his twelve-inch penis and bodybuilder physique for hours and hours at the bar. If he ends up just being a moderately talented and athletic lover of similarly moderate endowment, chances are his partner is going to end up disappointed even though under normal conditions that'd be a pretty good end to the night.

What I'm saying here is that it's impossible to write a non-sexual analogy about any movie with someone playing Catwoman in it. Except the Catwoman movie, that was just farking terrible.
 
2012-07-31 12:08:09 AM  
ummm farking blood transfusion anyone?


Gee we have a corpse, fark the dental records, fark the hair, lets grab a little bit of blood that couldn't possibly have mixed with other blood and use that to DNA test this motherfarker.
 
2012-07-31 12:16:59 AM  

Curt Blizzah: For an ingenious scientist, Batman got fooled easily/repeatedly in the new flick.


Batman's never been a scientist in any of the movies. Burton's 1989 film came closest when he figured out the combination of chemicals The Joker poisoned. He was never much of a detective either. That thing with the bullet in TDK made no sense at all. I guess being a ninja is more cinematic than all that thinking stuff.
 
2012-07-31 12:20:11 AM  
My biggest complaint was that they got rid of bane's venom. I was looking forward to that explanation.
 
2012-07-31 12:23:20 AM  
How did Bane know about the secret warehouse under Wayne Enterprises?

If your greatest fear about a prototype nuclear reactor is that it can be turned into a weapon, why make it removable from the container that prevents that from happening? And why build this fancy display that will perfectly count down to when it blows up?

How did that copter manage to outrun missiles anyway?

And lastly, why did Batman decide to forgo the use of pretty much all gadgets to engage the bad guy in a straight-up fistfight?
 
2012-07-31 12:26:26 AM  

scottydoesntknow: How Does Bruce Wayne Get Back to Gotham With No Resources?

He's the f***ing Batman. Seriously, if any fictional character could pull this one off, it's the f***ing Batman. Stop whining.

Ok, this one made me laugh.


As Yahtzee said, Batman is the most competent character in literature since Jesus.
 
2012-07-31 12:26:28 AM  
My explanation for why the Wayne Enterprises board didn't question the legitimacy of the stupid trading by Bruce Wayne even though it happened under suspicious circumstances.

There were 4 catagories of people on the board:

1 People on the take from Daggett/Bane

2 People who knew Bruce as the spoiled trust fund baby who fell asleep in meetings with the Chinese mobster that he wanted to get in bed with until the guy was arrested for being involved with every organized crime group in Gotham and then shuttered an alternative energy project he sunk the entire companys assets into when rumors say it was close to working.

3 people who saw which way the wind was blowing

4 Wayne loyalists- and I think Lucius Fox was pretty much it for category 4
 
2012-07-31 12:35:20 AM  
None of these were complaints I had about the film. Bane's monologuing and afterthought death aside, he really didn't seem to be a good fit for the Nolan universe. Nolan's Batman universe is very real, and Bane was a bit too larger than life. Hardy did just fine, but the character is almost too operatic for the Nolan universe. And why the hell did Batman keep challenging him to fisticuffs? When they started physically fighting the second time, my first thought was "Did he not kick your ass thoroughly enough last time, Batman? You know all that awesome technology you have just on your Batsuit? Try using some of it."

Selina Kyle was pretty much wasted here too. I like Anne Hathaway, but the character was quite blah. I don't blame her so much for that. She wasn't written very well.

My last quibble was that they brought back the League of Shadows at all. Ra's al Ghul was fun, but there was no need to bring him and his legacy back. The Batman universe has an incredibly rich stock of bad guys to choose from. Why visit old territory? I won't get into my own personal wish list for bad guys I'd have liked to see Nolan take on, but the League of Shadows has always been a bit of a bore to me.

That said, it was a fun movie and the actors did the best they could with what they were given. Like everyone, I knew exactly where they were going with Blake, and Joseph Gordon-Levitt did a good job taking a character that no one was anxious to see and making him far more likable than most people expected.
 
2012-07-31 12:37:46 AM  
I really liked the movie, it's my favorite of the three. The first one the fighting was distracting because with the camera in batman's pocket you couldn't tell what was going on, plus the driving on roof tops and turn the lights off for stealth mode. The second was better, the editing was a little off. The third was the best, I never knew Batman's back was supposed to be broken, I believe it was said he had a bulging disc or something. The only other things that bothered me were the thing with Miranda Tate, when they were scromping he felt a scar on her back that seemed to be in a certain shape, I knew at that moment she was no good and I thought he did too, I thought that was the whole reason it was shown. Also the trilogy seemed to wrap up Bruce Wayne's story too quick, he turned into batman, had a little thing with the Joker and two-face hid for a few years then it seems he's retired, he never even really got to use the Batcave much.
 
2012-07-31 12:38:17 AM  

Digitalstrange: My explanation for why the Wayne Enterprises board didn't question the legitimacy of the stupid trading by Bruce Wayne even though it happened under suspicious circumstances.

There were 2 catagories of people on the board:

1 People on the take from Daggett/Bane

2 People who knew Bruce as the spoiled trust fund baby who fell asleep in meetings with the Chinese mobster that he wanted to get in bed with until the guy was arrested for being involved with every organized crime group in Gotham and then shuttered an alternative energy project he sunk the entire companys assets into when rumors say it was close to working.

3 people who saw which way the wind was blowing

1) Your normal boardmembers who would do anything to make a profit and get more money for themselves

2) Wayne loyalists- and I think Lucius Fox was pretty much it for category 2


My reading of it (though truly I agree with you)
 
2012-07-31 12:39:15 AM  

doglover: Fusion doesn't explode. Hydrogen bombs only explode because a fission bomb is used first to make the hydrogen detonate in a very big and uncontrolled fusion reaction that ends fairly quickly but is epic in scale.

A fusion reactor would have so little material inside that even if we all farked off and just let that shiat blow up, it probably wouldn't even damage the reactor itself. Especially considering that it's really hard to make things keep fusing. Atoms don't spontaneously do that without stellar amounts of gravity.

So the whole premise of "We've got a nuke." is silly. Even if you could make it thus, it wouldn't work like that. At best, it would be anchored to the reactor at all times.


I like you doglover, but you're wrong. A fusion reactor would almost certainly be able to explode just like a fission reactor can. Whether or not it would be such a large explosion is impossible to know.

In a modern day fusion bomb, the fission trigger is used to start the reaction, yes. However, almost all of the released energy comes from the fusion reaction.

Therefore, if there were some way to actually create a fusion reaction, which there must be given that it is a fusion reactor we're talking about, it would probably explode with just as much if not more energy than a conventional fission reactor could.

As for the amount of material, that is impossible to know given that the entire method of fusion is fictional. However, consider this: In the Hiroshima explosion (admittedly much smaller than the fictional one) only about 1 kilogram of uranium (equivalent to a cube approximately 4 centimeters per side) actually underwent fission, and only about one GRAM of matter was converted to energy. Combine that with the fact that theoretically, fusion tends to be a more total reaction due to the extreme temperatures or pressures needed to sustain it.
 
2012-07-31 12:40:02 AM  

Owangotang: It's a comic book movie. None of it was suspension of disbelief breaking.


I disagree. It's a comic book movie trying to be a realistic movie. There's nothing that screams "realism" like a rich guy who dresses up as a bat
 
2012-07-31 12:43:42 AM  
They didn't really address what happened to Joker. And yes, I know they couldn't very well have a flashback to a scene where batman or someone offs The Joker for the obvious reason.
 
2012-07-31 12:46:07 AM  
TFA brings up an interesting point during one of those explanations, in that film blogs have created some sort of condition, for lack of a better term, where people just declare that anything they're too stupid to reason through/put the clues together for or missed the explanation of is a glaring plot hole. Nobody analyzes actions or character, or in terms of Batman they've created an ideal of what they've decided that character is and refuse to budge for anyone else's interpretation. "Batman wouldn't do that!" Maybe not Chuck Dixon's Batman or Frank Miller's Batman, but Chris Nolan's Batman absolutely would. Were there plot holes? Sure, and I'm willing to bet the movies without plot holes could be counted on one hand. But just because you didn't get it or would rather compare it against something else instead of letting it stand or fall on its own merits doesn't make it a plot hole.
 
2012-07-31 12:47:23 AM  

susansto-helit: I won't get into my own personal wish list for bad guys I'd have liked to see Nolan take on, but the League of Shadows has always been a bit of a bore to me.


It's Calendar Man. Admit it.
 
2012-07-31 12:47:41 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: They didn't really address what happened to Joker. And yes, I know they couldn't very well have a flashback to a scene where batman or someone offs The Joker for the obvious reason.


He said at the end of the second that the Joker was going to be in a padded cell for the rest of his life.
He went to the nuthouse. I don't think a trial and sentencing scene was necessary.
 
2012-07-31 12:50:27 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: They didn't really address what happened to Joker


There's not much to say, he's sitting in Arkham Asylum. I don' think Bane let those people out.
 
2012-07-31 12:53:59 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: They didn't really address what happened to Joker. And yes, I know they couldn't very well have a flashback to a scene where batman or someone offs The Joker for the obvious reason.


Doing nothing with the Joker was in the end the safest thing. The people who really complain (by that I mean biatch hardcore about it, not you just bring it up) would have really biatched hard if he showed up. They would rail how he was wasted in it or "well now Gotham isn't safe because he's on the loose", no way they would be pleased. Plus you'd add the whole element of people being uncomfortable with there being a replacement. Joker included would just in the end risk taking too much off the table and not really add anything to the story
 
2012-07-31 12:55:06 AM  
My issue: If you were gonna blow up Gotham anyway, why not trigger it as soon as you see the flaming bat emblem? Why wait until Batman is already within arm's-length of farking up your plans? Obviously, it was written this way to build up to the (ooh, ah) Talia reveal (an utter cop-out), but come on.
 
2012-07-31 12:55:08 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: susansto-helit: I won't get into my own personal wish list for bad guys I'd have liked to see Nolan take on, but the League of Shadows has always been a bit of a bore to me.

It's Calendar Man. Admit it.


A Long Halloween Calendar Man movie in the right hands would be a great one-off Batman film. In the wrong hands.....
 
2012-07-31 12:55:12 AM  

Mugato: Curt Blizzah: For an ingenious scientist, Batman got fooled easily/repeatedly in the new flick.

Batman's never been a scientist in any of the movies. Burton's 1989 film came closest when he figured out the combination of chemicals The Joker poisoned. He was never much of a detective either. That thing with the bullet in TDK made no sense at all. I guess being a ninja is more cinematic than all that thinking stuff.


Perhaps the next version will be smarter. I'm guessing there were more than a few long time fans of the character who cringed at the "Am I supposed to understand that?" quip from Bruce Wayne after Fox explained the Scarecrow's toxin to him.
 
2012-07-31 12:58:44 AM  
Author missed a biggie for me. Why'd Bane put his big bomb on a timer for 3 months when he had an instant detonator and his end goal was to blow everyone up? To torture the people for a while? From the looks of the police deputy, people were content just lying low in their homes.
 
2012-07-31 01:00:34 AM  

Bonanza Jellybean: My issue: If you were gonna blow up Gotham anyway, why not trigger it as soon as you see the flaming bat emblem? Why wait until Batman is already within arm's-length of farking up your plans? Obviously, it was written this way to build up to the (ooh, ah) Talia reveal (an utter cop-out), but come on.


The main thing would be that it wasn't Bane's decision to make.

That's something a lot of people are having a hard time getting. Bane was never the villain in this. He was Talia's henchman. Granted, a lieutenant, but still a henchman. Everything he did was the means to accomplishing her plan, which was to avenge her father and finish his work.

Plus, since she was masquerading as just another one of the captives, odds are she didn't see the signal, so she wouldn't know to push the button.
 
2012-07-31 01:01:09 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Owangotang: It's a comic book movie. None of it was suspension of disbelief breaking.

I disagree. It's a comic book movie trying to be a realistic movie. There's nothing that screams "realism" like a rich guy who dresses up as a bat


Why can't it be both? A comic book movie set in the DC universe that is shot and presented in a realistic style? It's not like the movie took place in NYC and Barack Obama was the President, it's not our world.
 
2012-07-31 01:02:04 AM  

MooseMuffin: Author missed a biggie for me. Why'd Bane put his big bomb on a timer for 3 months when he had an instant detonator and his end goal was to blow everyone up? To torture the people for a while? From the looks of the police deputy, people were content just lying low in their homes.


In the movie he said it was to build up false hope, just like the prison did.
 
2012-07-31 01:02:10 AM  

Bonanza Jellybean: My issue: If you were gonna blow up Gotham anyway, why not trigger it as soon as you see the flaming bat emblem? Why wait until Batman is already within arm's-length of farking up your plans? Obviously, it was written this way to build up to the (ooh, ah) Talia reveal (an utter cop-out), but come on.


Same. Also, the terrible dialogue.
 
2012-07-31 01:02:49 AM  

stoli n coke: He said at the end of the second that the Joker was going to be in a padded cell for the rest of his life.
He went to the nuthouse. I don't think a trial and sentencing scene was necessary.


Ok that rings a bell but it is, unfortunately, a crappy cop-out. But I understand why they did it.

Mugato: There's not much to say, he's sitting in Arkham Asylum. I don' think Bane let those people out.


That would've been nice if they addressed that directly. However, I can see why they didn't need to since Bane didn't need the crazies out in the streets.
 
2012-07-31 01:03:20 AM  

Tiber727: How did Bane know about the secret warehouse under Wayne Enterprises?

If your greatest fear about a prototype nuclear reactor is that it can be turned into a weapon, why make it removable from the container that prevents that from happening? And why build this fancy display that will perfectly count down to when it blows up?

How did that copter manage to outrun missiles anyway?

And lastly, why did Batman decide to forgo the use of pretty much all gadgets to engage the bad guy in a straight-up fistfight?


Because he's the goddamn Batman that's why
 
2012-07-31 01:03:53 AM  

TheManofPA: Britney Spear's Speculum: They didn't really address what happened to Joker. And yes, I know they couldn't very well have a flashback to a scene where batman or someone offs The Joker for the obvious reason.

Doing nothing with the Joker was in the end the safest thing. The people who really complain (by that I mean biatch hardcore about it, not you just bring it up) would have really biatched hard if he showed up. They would rail how he was wasted in it or "well now Gotham isn't safe because he's on the loose", no way they would be pleased. Plus you'd add the whole element of people being uncomfortable with there being a replacement. Joker included would just in the end risk taking too much off the table and not really add anything to the story


My solution- Show the Arkham breakout (it had to have happened because Scarecrow was not going to be in Blackgate) but when one of Banes goons reach for a door marked "Identity Unknown:Joker" have another goon grab his arm and say "No, we don't need that much chaos"
 
2012-07-31 01:04:25 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: stoli n coke: He said at the end of the second that the Joker was going to be in a padded cell for the rest of his life.
He went to the nuthouse. I don't think a trial and sentencing scene was necessary.

Ok that rings a bell but it is, unfortunately, a crappy cop-out. But I understand why they did it.

Mugato: There's not much to say, he's sitting in Arkham Asylum. I don' think Bane let those people out.

That would've been nice if they addressed that directly. However, I can see why they didn't need to since Bane didn't need the crazies out in the streets.


Wasn't scarecrow in the asylum? He got out.
 
2012-07-31 01:06:38 AM  

mgshamster: Wasn't scarecrow in the asylum? He got out.


He wasn't in the asylum, he was running around the streets with guys in hockey pads dressed up as batman in the dark knight.
 
2012-07-31 01:07:43 AM  

mgshamster: Wasn't scarecrow in the asylum? He got out.


He was out in the *last* film...
 
2012-07-31 01:09:46 AM  

TheManofPA: Digitalstrange: My explanation for why the Wayne Enterprises board didn't question the legitimacy of the stupid trading by Bruce Wayne even though it happened under suspicious circumstances.

There were 2 catagories of people on the board:

1 People on the take from Daggett/Bane

2 People who knew Bruce as the spoiled trust fund baby who fell asleep in meetings with the Chinese mobster that he wanted to get in bed with until the guy was arrested for being involved with every organized crime group in Gotham and then shuttered an alternative energy project he sunk the entire companys assets into when rumors say it was close to working.

3 people who saw which way the wind was blowing
1) Your normal boardmembers who would do anything to make a profit and get more money for themselves

2) Wayne loyalists- and I think Lucius Fox was pretty much it for category 2

My reading of it (though truly I agree with you)


true enough but my analysis explains why they thought ignoring the logical idea that the trades were fake seemed profitable to them. Category 1 was directly profiting by taking bribes from the competition. Category 2 thought Bruce was bad leadership based on past experience, and category 3 was pretty much your "whatever keeps profits coming" group
 
2012-07-31 01:09:56 AM  

BafflerMeal: mgshamster: Wasn't scarecrow in the asylum? He got out.

He was out in the *last* film...


And he choreographed the escape in the first one. Wouldn't make much sense to lock him up somewhere that he already knew how to get out of.
 
2012-07-31 01:11:12 AM  
Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?
 
2012-07-31 01:13:03 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: mgshamster: Wasn't scarecrow in the asylum? He got out.

He wasn't in the asylum, he was running around the streets with guys in hockey pads dressed up as batman in the dark knight.


Ah yes. I forgot about that.
 
2012-07-31 01:15:20 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: mgshamster: Wasn't scarecrow in the asylum? He got out.

He wasn't in the asylum, he was running around the streets with guys in hockey pads dressed up as batman in the dark knight.


except Batman left him trussed up at the end of that scene for pickup to go back to Arkham. He was back in custody
 
2012-07-31 01:15:34 AM  

GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?


He did lower the ropes that were tethered to the top of the pit. Remember, he didn't use one to climb out. He was helping the other prisoners get out.

Jesus, was everyone checking their Facebook status during this farking movie?
 
2012-07-31 01:16:25 AM  

susansto-helit: None of these were complaints I had about the film. Bane's monologuing and afterthought death aside, he really didn't seem to be a good fit for the Nolan universe. Nolan's Batman universe is very real, and Bane was a bit too larger than life. Hardy did just fine, but the character is almost too operatic for the Nolan universe. And why the hell did Batman keep challenging him to fisticuffs? When they started physically fighting the second time, my first thought was "Did he not kick your ass thoroughly enough last time, Batman? You know all that awesome technology you have just on your Batsuit? Try using some of it."

Selina Kyle was pretty much wasted here too. I like Anne Hathaway, but the character was quite blah. I don't blame her so much for that. She wasn't written very well.

My last quibble was that they brought back the League of Shadows at all. Ra's al Ghul was fun, but there was no need to bring him and his legacy back. The Batman universe has an incredibly rich stock of bad guys to choose from. Why visit old territory? I won't get into my own personal wish list for bad guys I'd have liked to see Nolan take on, but the League of Shadows has always been a bit of a bore to me.

That said, it was a fun movie and the actors did the best they could with what they were given. Like everyone, I knew exactly where they were going with Blake, and Joseph Gordon-Levitt did a good job taking a character that no one was anxious to see and making him far more likable than most people expected.


I liked the inclusion of talia and the league of shadows. I felt like it helped bring the trilogy full circle and it was a nice non-supernatural way to give Ra's his trademark "immortality"
 
2012-07-31 01:16:58 AM  

Tiber727: How did Bane know about the secret warehouse under Wayne Enterprises?


Talia al'Ghul, who is the one in charge of the League of Shadows, has been involved with Wayne enterprises for some time, iirc at least partially as a board member even before the events of the movie. Getting some building schematics and going "hey, there's unallocated space there" then finding out what's in said space isn't rocket science when you're not only on the board of the company, but also have an army of ninjas and spies.

If your greatest fear about a prototype nuclear reactor is that it can be turned into a weapon, why make it removable from the container that prevents that from happening? And why build this fancy display that will perfectly count down to when it blows up?

The very existence of the device is pure pseudoscience and that's being charitable, so if you accept its existence at all it doesn't really make sense to ponder its design specs. The safety system (to flood the room when irregularities like the core removal occur) was disabled by Talia.

How did that copter manage to outrun missiles anyway?

Well, they're Bat-missiles, i.e. miniature kamikaze drones with some solid AI. Assumably you have to make them slow enough for the AI's guidance process, targeting algorithm, and image processing to keep them on target. Batman's obsessively concerned with minimizing non-criminal casualties, using unguided missiles would mean hitting buildings and using heat-guided missiles, which would also be fairly fast, would be a bad idea in a city (i.e. giant concrete pad covered in large heat sources) for similar reasons.

And lastly, why did Batman decide to forgo the use of pretty much all gadgets to engage the bad guy in a straight-up fistfight?

Nolan's Bruce Wayne is technically inept and a farking moron. The character's been pretty consistent from the start, did you miss the first two movies where he couldn't do even the most basic detective work and had to come begging to Fox to rig his cowl to turn, or had to crash his personal car into a police vehicle to resolve a mole when paying the guy off was trivial? Or the part where his girlfriend died because he waited politely for a terrorist to give him clues instead of going out with a basic mass spectrometer and finding both captives in half the time? Maybe you remember him stupidly leaping onto a train that runs on a monorail, i.e. it has an external power source that can be easily cut off remotely by someone with, say, a car that shoots missiles and a way to figure out where the physical power connections are?

Batman's abject stupidity is the major driving force of the action in the Nolan movies.
 
2012-07-31 01:18:08 AM  

Digitalstrange: Britney Spear's Speculum: mgshamster: Wasn't scarecrow in the asylum? He got out.

He wasn't in the asylum, he was running around the streets with guys in hockey pads dressed up as batman in the dark knight.

except Batman left him trussed up at the end of that scene for pickup to go back to Arkham. He was back in custody


Except (part 2) he was out again as one of the 'guards' on the boat full of inmates which means he was probably working with the Joker as an inside man. I'm surprised how few people notice this when the camera lingers on him...
 
2012-07-31 01:19:25 AM  
Those goons of Bane's didn't spill the beans about Bruce? Sure, they were loyal to him and Talia during the big showdown. But now that they're leaderless and rudderless, they're not going to talk?

And isn't Gordon just trading one lie for another? Did he not learn his lesson after upholding his eight-year lie about Dent?
 
2012-07-31 01:21:00 AM  

GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?


he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Now just like the "how did he get back to Gotham with no resources?" questioners I will accept a rebuttal of "He's the goddamn Batman, he could've found a way to make it happen if he wanted" response to that. He could've found something to drop down to them
 
2012-07-31 01:21:22 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Tiber727: How did Bane know about the secret warehouse under Wayne Enterprises?

Talia al'Ghul, who is the one in charge of the League of Shadows, has been involved with Wayne enterprises for some time, iirc at least partially as a board member even before the events of the movie. Getting some building schematics and going "hey, there's unallocated space there" then finding out what's in said space isn't rocket science when you're not only on the board of the company, but also have an army of ninjas and spies.

If your greatest fear about a prototype nuclear reactor is that it can be turned into a weapon, why make it removable from the container that prevents that from happening? And why build this fancy display that will perfectly count down to when it blows up?

The very existence of the device is pure pseudoscience and that's being charitable, so if you accept its existence at all it doesn't really make sense to ponder its design specs. The safety system (to flood the room when irregularities like the core removal occur) was disabled by Talia.

How did that copter manage to outrun missiles anyway?

Well, they're Bat-missiles, i.e. miniature kamikaze drones with some solid AI. Assumably you have to make them slow enough for the AI's guidance process, targeting algorithm, and image processing to keep them on target. Batman's obsessively concerned with minimizing non-criminal casualties, using unguided missiles would mean hitting buildings and using heat-guided missiles, which would also be fairly fast, would be a bad idea in a city (i.e. giant concrete pad covered in large heat sources) for similar reasons.

And lastly, why did Batman decide to forgo the use of pretty much all gadgets to engage the bad guy in a straight-up fistfight?

Nolan's Bruce Wayne is technically inept and a farking moron. The character's been pretty consistent from the start, did you miss the first two movies where he couldn't do even the most basic detective work and had to come begging to Fox to rig his cowl to turn, or had to crash his personal car into a police vehicle to resolve a mole when paying the guy off was trivial? Or the part where his girlfriend died because he waited politely for a terrorist to give him clues instead of going out with a basic mass spectrometer and finding both captives in half the time? Maybe you remember him stupidly leaping onto a train that runs on a monorail, i.e. it has an external power source that can be easily cut off remotely by someone with, say, a car that shoots missiles and a way to figure out where the physical power connections are?

Batman's abject stupidity is the major driving force of the action in the Nolan movies.


How would a mass spec help?
 
2012-07-31 01:21:28 AM  

GreenAdder: Those goons of Bane's didn't spill the beans about Bruce? Sure, they were loyal to him and Talia during the big showdown. But now that they're leaderless and rudderless, they're not going to talk?

And isn't Gordon just trading one lie for another? Did he not learn his lesson after upholding his eight-year lie about Dent?


My biggest quibble was the story was basically driven that the lie of Dent's death was what broke Wayne and Gordon. In the real world environment Nolan created, I think they'd both be ok with that lie.
 
2012-07-31 01:23:01 AM  

Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.


Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...
 
2012-07-31 01:23:23 AM  

stoli n coke: Bonanza Jellybean: My issue: If you were gonna blow up Gotham anyway, why not trigger it as soon as you see the flaming bat emblem? Why wait until Batman is already within arm's-length of farking up your plans? Obviously, it was written this way to build up to the (ooh, ah) Talia reveal (an utter cop-out), but come on.

The main thing would be that it wasn't Bane's decision to make.

That's something a lot of people are having a hard time getting. Bane was never the villain in this. He was Talia's henchman. Granted, a lieutenant, but still a henchman. Everything he did was the means to accomplishing her plan, which was to avenge her father and finish his work.

Plus, since she was masquerading as just another one of the captives, odds are she didn't see the signal, so she wouldn't know to push the button.


No, but she did see Bruce before that when Bruce and Kyle freed Fox from Bane's henchmen, before Bruce suited up as the Bat again to save Gordon. Miranda obviously knew who Bruce was and should have at least accelerated the plan if not detonated the bomb right then. But we need the drama, and a horrible speech about a patient knife.
 
2012-07-31 01:27:17 AM  

BafflerMeal: Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...


Yeah....except that he did throw that giant pile of coiled rope back down into the pit.
 
2012-07-31 01:28:52 AM  

Imperious Rex!: BafflerMeal: Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...

Yeah....except that he did throw that giant pile of coiled rope back down into the pit.


Hrm. I'm a pretty observant viewer and I missed that then. I was even thinking to myself at the time, "Wait? He's not going to throw that rope back?". Hrm. Will have to pay closer attention in a second viewing.
 
2012-07-31 01:29:12 AM  

BafflerMeal: Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...


Exactly. Thank you for this. But apparently I was "checking my Facebook status" during that scene that clearly shows him not lowering a rope to help any of the prisoners.
 
2012-07-31 01:30:11 AM  

BafflerMeal: Except (part 2) he was out again as one of the 'guards' on the boat full of inmates which means he was probably working with the Joker as an inside man. I'm surprised how few people notice this when the camera lingers on him...


This guy? Link

Not him...
 
2012-07-31 01:30:38 AM  

Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Now just like the "how did he get back to Gotham with no resources?" questioners I will accept a rebuttal of "He's the goddamn Batman, he could've found a way to make it happen if he wanted" response to that. He could've found something to drop down to them


Something like the rope that he clearly did drop down to them in that scene?
 
2012-07-31 01:31:08 AM  

BafflerMeal: Imperious Rex!: BafflerMeal: Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...

Yeah....except that he did throw that giant pile of coiled rope back down into the pit.

Hrm. I'm a pretty observant viewer and I missed that then. I was even thinking to myself at the time, "Wait? He's not going to throw that rope back?". Hrm. Will have to pay closer attention in a second viewing.


I guess it could be easy to miss, it's not like they made a big deal out of it. He just kinda pushes it over the edge back into the pit.
 
2012-07-31 01:31:14 AM  

farkityfarker: They forgot "Why would anyone go see a movie about a man who dresses up in a silly bat costume to fight crime?"


You're boring. Your go-to comment isn't witty or effective, so stop going to it.
 
2012-07-31 01:32:20 AM  

dai the flu: BafflerMeal: Except (part 2) he was out again as one of the 'guards' on the boat full of inmates which means he was probably working with the Joker as an inside man. I'm surprised how few people notice this when the camera lingers on him...

This guy? Link

Not him...


Good catch. Thanks for the correction. It must have been the supple pouty lips...
 
2012-07-31 01:33:14 AM  

GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?


Actually, Batman being a complete asshole to anyone he even suspects is a criminal is pretty spot-on for his comics personality for at least the last couple of decades. He's been a lot less "gadzooks, the riddler is caught in his own trap. Quick, Robin, bring me the bat-wire-cutters before he loses his head!" and a lot more "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you *shoves shoplifter off building*" since the movie from the late '80s came out.

What bothered me was why the prisoners hadn't escaped long ago. They had plenty of extra rope and metal things, while using the one rope hanging down to string a basic network isn't necessarily easy, it's not Sherpa-level mountaineering either.

Also, for reference, if you're ever in the bat-situation Bale found himself in there, either rig a rope ascender (something a super-ninja should find trivial) or just grab the damned thing and use the rope to climb. For instance, that unjumpable jump of doom? Pull yourself up with the rope (which is hanging from basically directly above at the time, giving you a good arc without it pulling sideways) about two feet and just walk over to the other ledge. It may take a couple swings back and forth, but you'll get there. You know why people doing actual climbing don't do things like this? Because it's so easy it's considered cheating. Anyone with half-decent upper-body strength and no debilitating fear of heights can do it. I can do it, and I'm a damned office worker (ok, technically it's a laboratory, but I have a desk and I write shiat all day).
 
2012-07-31 01:33:25 AM  

Imperious Rex!: BafflerMeal: Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...

Yeah....except that he did throw that giant pile of coiled rope back down into the pit.


cdn.overclock.net
 
2012-07-31 01:33:59 AM  

BafflerMeal: GreenAdder: Those goons of Bane's didn't spill the beans about Bruce? Sure, they were loyal to him and Talia during the big showdown. But now that they're leaderless and rudderless, they're not going to talk?

And isn't Gordon just trading one lie for another? Did he not learn his lesson after upholding his eight-year lie about Dent?

My biggest quibble was the story was basically driven that the lie of Dent's death was what broke Wayne and Gordon. In the real world environment Nolan created, I think they'd both be ok with that lie.


Rachel's death is what broke Bruce, not the Dent lie. (Which IS very unBatmanlike I admit) but the very upright Gordon character built in this version being haunted by basing his entire run as police commisioner on a lie would bother him alot.
 
2012-07-31 01:35:33 AM  

BafflerMeal: dai the flu: BafflerMeal: Except (part 2) he was out again as one of the 'guards' on the boat full of inmates which means he was probably working with the Joker as an inside man. I'm surprised how few people notice this when the camera lingers on him...

This guy? Link

Not him...

Good catch. Thanks for the correction. It must have been the supple pouty lips...


I watched it five times to be sure, similarly shaped face me thinks.
 
2012-07-31 01:36:48 AM  
Riddle me this: Why did a bunch of completely clean-shaven cops come out of that hole after three months of captivity? Was Blake considerate enough to lower razors and shaving cream along with those messages?
 
2012-07-31 01:38:44 AM  

GreenAdder: Riddle me this: Why did a bunch of completely clean-shaven cops come out of that hole after three months of captivity? Was Blake considerate enough to lower razors and shaving cream along with those messages?


Damn straight. That's why he's Robin.
 
2012-07-31 01:38:59 AM  

GreenAdder: BafflerMeal: Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...

Exactly. Thank you for this. But apparently I was "checking my Facebook status" during that scene that clearly shows him not lowering a rope to help any of the prisoners.


Umm no, he threw it in. I remember thinking WTF is he doing? All those criminals are going to climb out. Later somebody told me Bane/The League probably imprisoned most of them unjustly.
 
2012-07-31 01:39:50 AM  

GreenAdder: Riddle me this: Why did a bunch of completely clean-shaven cops come out of that hole after three months of captivity? Was Blake considerate enough to lower razors and shaving cream along with those messages?


Same reason Bruce didn't lose any muscle mass after being immobile for at least a month and why the hair on his head didn't seem to get any longer at the end of his incarceration than it was when he was thrown in....because of those damned stylists and trainers, always ruining movies with their need to make sure people look as good as they can at all times.
 
2012-07-31 01:40:27 AM  

mgshamster: how would a mass-spec help?


Well, I'm assuming a bat-mass-spec (i.e. an unfeasibly good one with the computing power to do matching analysis unfeasibly rapidly on its own). Take residue for the explosives he made off the Joker, who never farking bathes apparently anyhow, stick the spectrum in there, joyride around in the super-car for a bit with the collector hanging out the window, possibly tied to the collar of a well-entertained bat-dog of some kind.

With instrumental specificity on the order demonstrated by reassembling a shattered bullet and reconstructing a fingerprint from smeared hand-oils that should have been sheared off by deformation and impact, I'd put the over/under on finding the primer explosives necessary to ignite all the barrels of concentrated hollywood bullshiat in the warehouses at about five minutes.
 
2012-07-31 01:40:28 AM  
"Yeah, so you accept that there's a guy in a costume beating everyone up but one of the citizens on the street pooping an anti-fusion reactor is soooo crazy, huh?" That's what that article sounds like. Yes, certain shiat breaks your immersion. If I'm watching the scene in Fight Club where they're hitting golf balls off the roof, and one of the golf balls morphs into a dragon and takes Ed Norton to Hell to fight demons, I'm going to wonder what the fark is going on.
 
2012-07-31 01:42:23 AM  
My girlfriends biggest issue with TDKR was a two parter:

First, about the likelyhood of the helicopter travelling at least 3 miles out into the ocean carrying the aforementioned "bomb" in the short period of time (I didnt have time to get my stopwatch out to time it) before it exploded, leading me to...

Secondly, no one commented at all about what massive damage that bomb has done to the Atlantic, or the fallout that is likely to rain back on New Yo- I mean Gotham.
 
2012-07-31 01:42:32 AM  

GreenAdder: Riddle me this: Why did a bunch of completely clean-shaven cops come out of that hole after three months of captivity? Was Blake considerate enough to lower razors and shaving cream along with those messages?


Well, he was giving them food and drums of water. Given the risk of disease from being underground for months, it's not inconceivable that soap and a few toiletries would be included in the supply drops. He may have been a little sympathetic for people imprisoned underground because of his own circumstances.

A bigger question is, how was Bane clean shaven during his time in the pit?
 
2012-07-31 01:43:24 AM  
Just wanted to duck in and say I saw the movie about 2 hours ago, and he clearly chucked the coil of rope down for the prisoners.

That said, I refuse to believe that Gordon didn't already know Bruce was Batman and had to basically have that info handed to him at the end.
 
2012-07-31 01:43:46 AM  
and please, climbers enlighten me. Farking Tom Cruise did his own stunts on a cliff face for MI3 that went upside down. This was a straight cylinder that looked to have plenty of crags for handholds. Why the leap? Why not just keep climbing a perfectly level wall with plenty of texture for handholds? particularly for ninjas like Bruce Wayne, Talia Al Gul, and Bane
 
2012-07-31 01:44:15 AM  

stoli n coke: A bigger question is, how was Bane clean shaven during his time in the pit?


I think the movie would have been more believable if Bane had a hairy back.
 
2012-07-31 01:45:35 AM  

Jim_Callahan: mgshamster: how would a mass-spec help?

Well, I'm assuming a bat-mass-spec (i.e. an unfeasibly good one with the computing power to do matching analysis unfeasibly rapidly on its own). Take residue for the explosives he made off the Joker, who never farking bathes apparently anyhow, stick the spectrum in there, joyride around in the super-car for a bit with the collector hanging out the window, possibly tied to the collar of a well-entertained bat-dog of some kind.

With instrumental specificity on the order demonstrated by reassembling a shattered bullet and reconstructing a fingerprint from smeared hand-oils that should have been sheared off by deformation and impact, I'd put the over/under on finding the primer explosives necessary to ignite all the barrels of concentrated hollywood bullshiat in the warehouses at about five minutes.


Fair enough. Also, if you take into account how quickly the poison was identified and an antidote was made in part 1, a ms that fast would make sense.

/like bruce would know how to use or read one.
 
2012-07-31 01:46:33 AM  

SilentBobCDN: My girlfriends biggest issue with TDKR was a two parter:

First, about the likelyhood of the helicopter travelling at least 3 miles out into the ocean carrying the aforementioned "bomb" in the short period of time (I didnt have time to get my stopwatch out to time it) before it exploded, leading me to...

Secondly, no one commented at all about what massive damage that bomb has done to the Atlantic, or the fallout that is likely to rain back on New Yo- I mean Gotham.

1.bp.blogspot.com
Mmmmm. Tasty.
 
2012-07-31 01:48:33 AM  

BafflerMeal: Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...


You must have seen the "not helping" cut. The version I saw, he CLEARLY knocked a massive coil of rope down into the pit.
 
2012-07-31 01:49:31 AM  

stoli n coke: GreenAdder: Riddle me this: Why did a bunch of completely clean-shaven cops come out of that hole after three months of captivity? Was Blake considerate enough to lower razors and shaving cream along with those messages?

Well, he was giving them food and drums of water. Given the risk of disease from being underground for months, it's not inconceivable that soap and a few toiletries would be included in the supply drops. He may have been a little sympathetic for people imprisoned underground because of his own circumstances.

A bigger question is, how was Bane clean shaven during his time in the pit?


media.screened.com
Alopecia?
 
2012-07-31 01:53:57 AM  
i.imgur.com
Rob says: "I think the movie would have been better with more pouches on everyone. Like in the comics. We just get Bruce Wayne out of the way, have someone else play Batman, and..."
i.imgur.com
"See how much cooler that would have made the movie? We just need to make it a little more realistic so it works in a movie setting."
i.imgur.com
"Yeah! Now that's a Batman worth my $8.50. Imagine that guy beating up Bane instead of Christian Bale. That would have made the movie at least one hundred times more awesome. If I'm lying, I'm drawing feet."
 
2012-07-31 01:56:31 AM  

mgshamster: Fair enough. Also, if you take into account how quickly the poison was identified and an antidote was made in part 1, a ms that fast would make sense.

/like bruce would know how to use or read one.


Like I said, I'm just pointing out that Nolan's Batman is an idiot, I don't actually have a problem with this as I kind of regard them as pure action movies rather than detective movies. I might be more upset about the intelligence part of the comic book version of the character not showing up, but there are two recent actual Sherlock Holmes movies out that actually get the mix of physical and intellectual badassery and sheer crazy pretty much spot-on perfect, so I'm not that worried about a derivative character keeping consistent with the source. If the movies are going to have Batman be less Holmes and more McClane, that's cool, I can dig it.
 
2012-07-31 02:01:09 AM  
It's about appointing oneself the supreme arbiter of taste above all those disgusting little plebs.



Welcome to Fark, dear reporter.
/oh, and comic stores all over the World
//'cause I work in one and this NAILS it
 
2012-07-31 02:02:08 AM  

Jim_Callahan: mgshamster: Fair enough. Also, if you take into account how quickly the poison was identified and an antidote was made in part 1, a ms that fast would make sense.

/like bruce would know how to use or read one.

Like I said, I'm just pointing out that Nolan's Batman is an idiot, I don't actually have a problem with this as I kind of regard them as pure action movies rather than detective movies. I might be more upset about the intelligence part of the comic book version of the character not showing up, but there are two recent actual Sherlock Holmes movies out that actually get the mix of physical and intellectual badassery and sheer crazy pretty much spot-on perfect, so I'm not that worried about a derivative character keeping consistent with the source. If the movies are going to have Batman be less Holmes and more McClane, that's cool, I can dig it.


Oh, don't mind me. I loved the three movies. I own the blurays for the first two, and I'll buy the third as well. Might even go see it again in the theater.

/Also loved the two sherlock movies.
//I recommend you watch the recent BBC show Sherlock
 
2012-07-31 02:03:57 AM  

GreenAdder: [i.imgur.com image 230x280]
Rob says: "I think the movie would have been better with more pouches on everyone. Like in the comics. We just get Bruce Wayne out of the way, have someone else play Batman, and..."
[i.imgur.com image 462x700]
"See how much cooler that would have made the movie? We just need to make it a little more realistic so it works in a movie setting."
[i.imgur.com image 367x520]
"Yeah! Now that's a Batman worth my $8.50. Imagine that guy beating up Bane instead of Christian Bale. That would have made the movie at least one hundred times more awesome. If I'm lying, I'm drawing feet."


I don't get why everyone thinks the Batman series should be slavishly faithful to what one version of the comic or the other did.

Most comic series have had so many revisions, re-writes, and one-offs that you're obviously going to piss of some comics fans, so why worry about it?

All a Batman flick needs is Batman, a cool car, the utility belt gadgets, Alfred, a formidable opponent, and none of that campy Schumacher crap, and I can usually enjoy it.
 
2012-07-31 02:07:34 AM  
Why is it that they bother giving Batman a really effective dart gun to drug goons, but when the final battle with Bane rolls around, he goes right back to the "punch him a bunch" strategy that failed the first time he tried it? Then Nolan cops out by just having Catwoman blast him from offscreen so Batman can keep his hands clean?

I was also considerably bothered by just how much they bang that nuke around. I mean, no one else flinched when the truck carrying the nuke did a nose-dive? How about when he hooks it up to his plane and starts DRAGGING IT around?

It would have been poetic justice to have it go off when he banged it against a streetlight or something.
 
2012-07-31 02:09:34 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: doglover: Fusion doesn't explode. Hydrogen bombs only explode because a fission bomb is used first to make the hydrogen detonate in a very big and uncontrolled fusion reaction that ends fairly quickly but is epic in scale.

A fusion reactor would have so little material inside that even if we all farked off and just let that shiat blow up, it probably wouldn't even damage the reactor itself. Especially considering that it's really hard to make things keep fusing. Atoms don't spontaneously do that without stellar amounts of gravity.

So the whole premise of "We've got a nuke." is silly. Even if you could make it thus, it wouldn't work like that. At best, it would be anchored to the reactor at all times.

I like you doglover, but you're wrong. A fusion reactor would almost certainly be able to explode just like a fission reactor can. Whether or not it would be such a large explosion is impossible to know.

In a modern day fusion bomb, the fission trigger is used to start the reaction, yes. However, almost all of the released energy comes from the fusion reaction.

Therefore, if there were some way to actually create a fusion reaction, which there must be given that it is a fusion reactor we're talking about, it would probably explode with just as much if not more energy than a conventional fission reactor could.

As for the amount of material, that is impossible to know given that the entire method of fusion is fictional. However, consider this: In the Hiroshima explosion (admittedly much smaller than the fictional one) only about 1 kilogram of uranium (equivalent to a cube approximately 4 centimeters per side) actually underwent fission, and only about one GRAM of matter was converted to energy. Combine that with the fact that theoretically, fusion tends to be a more total reaction due to the extreme temperatures or pressures needed to sustain it.


You're comparing apples to oranges. An H bomb is still mostly fission. That's the kaboom.

Fusion releases energy, more energy than fission. That's why you can't make a fusion reactor into a bomb. It's so efficient, you only need tiny amounts of fuel in the chamber to make a big amount of energy. If you disrupt the reaction, it stop faster than you can say "It stopped."

At best, you could get exploding yttrium pellets or something. Even then, not exactly a 4kt nuke with a radioactive signature.
 
2012-07-31 02:18:14 AM  

stoli n coke: I don't get why everyone thinks the Batman series should be slavishly faithful to what one version of the comic or the other did.


Rob Liefeld just wants to see more pouches. And less feet.
 
2012-07-31 02:19:50 AM  
The Nolan "Batman" movies were the worst trilogy since Episodes 1-3 of Star Wars. Maybe the next reboot will get Batman right. Nolan's movies were a pseudo-intellectual, boring mess. Nolan must either hate superheroes or he must just not understand them at all. Making a "realistic" superhero movie is a nonsensical goal. The essence of superheroes is that they represent escapism, not reality. It's very hard to take something that is essentially fantastic and put it in a "realistic" setting. Remember the live-action Flintstones movies and the reception they received? It's a similar concept. Maybe it's possible to do that with Batman. Obviously Nolan is not the director to do it.

Now he's off to ruin Superman for another generation. There won't be a Justice League movie for decades to come. And people wonder why Marvel is miles ahead in getting their characters translated into movies successfully.
 
2012-07-31 02:20:12 AM  

Strolpol:
I was also considerably bothered by just how much they bang that nuke around. I mean, no one else flinched when the truck carrying the nuke did a nose-dive? How about when he hooks it up to his plane and starts DRAGGING IT around?

It would have been poetic justice to have it go off when he banged it against a streetlight or something.



Wasn't so much bothered by it, but found it hysterical as he kept banging the "highly unstable" device through half of Gotham before reaching altitude. It almost felt like an homage to Adam West sprinting around with that giant bomb. Link

Most of the other "plot holes" didn't bother me. It's a comic book movie, there's always going to be some contrivance, even with the veneer of realism Nolan's putting on it.

/did also enjoy "Doctor, turn this reactor into a nuclear bomb" *cut away* "Ok, here you go this is totally a bomb now".
 
2012-07-31 02:21:13 AM  

doglover: The All-Powerful Atheismo: doglover: Fusion doesn't explode. Hydrogen bombs only explode because a fission bomb is used first to make the hydrogen detonate in a very big and uncontrolled fusion reaction that ends fairly quickly but is epic in scale.

A fusion reactor would have so little material inside that even if we all farked off and just let that shiat blow up, it probably wouldn't even damage the reactor itself. Especially considering that it's really hard to make things keep fusing. Atoms don't spontaneously do that without stellar amounts of gravity.

So the whole premise of "We've got a nuke." is silly. Even if you could make it thus, it wouldn't work like that. At best, it would be anchored to the reactor at all times.

I like you doglover, but you're wrong. A fusion reactor would almost certainly be able to explode just like a fission reactor can. Whether or not it would be such a large explosion is impossible to know.

In a modern day fusion bomb, the fission trigger is used to start the reaction, yes. However, almost all of the released energy comes from the fusion reaction.

Therefore, if there were some way to actually create a fusion reaction, which there must be given that it is a fusion reactor we're talking about, it would probably explode with just as much if not more energy than a conventional fission reactor could.

As for the amount of material, that is impossible to know given that the entire method of fusion is fictional. However, consider this: In the Hiroshima explosion (admittedly much smaller than the fictional one) only about 1 kilogram of uranium (equivalent to a cube approximately 4 centimeters per side) actually underwent fission, and only about one GRAM of matter was converted to energy. Combine that with the fact that theoretically, fusion tends to be a more total reaction due to the extreme temperatures or pressures needed to sustain it.

You're comparing apples to oranges. An H bomb is still mostly fission. That's the kaboom.

Fusion releases energy, more energy than fission. That's why you can't make a fusion reactor into a bomb. It's so efficient, you only need tiny amounts of fuel in the chamber to make a big amount of energy. If you disrupt the reaction, it stop faster than you can say "It stopped."

At best, you could get exploding yttrium pellets or something. Even then, not exactly a 4kt nuke with a radioactive signature.


But Dr. Pavel spent like three seconds doing some science stuff to it and made it a bomb. Are you saying you know more than a fictional nuclear physicist?
 
2012-07-31 02:22:01 AM  

doglover:
You're comparing apples to oranges. An H bomb is still mostly fission. That's the kabo ...


No, it really depends on the design, which given the fictional nature of this reactor, makes it impossible to analyze.

To illustrate... the Tsar Bomba, a tertiary stage device, also the largest device ever exploded, got about 97% of its energy from the fusion reaction, because they eliminated the fast fission tamper.

In reality, no nuclear plant in existence would create a megaton range explosion. Probably not even a fusion plant if one existed. However, once again, this is fictional, and simply the fact that it was a fusion device is not a sufficient reason to conclude it wouldn't have created a nuclear explosion.

/engineer+physicist
 
2012-07-31 02:22:56 AM  

cetacei: The Nolan "Batman" movies were the worst trilogy since Episodes 1-3 of Star Wars.


Apparently you haven't seen the "Gingerdead man" series.
 
2012-07-31 02:23:04 AM  

cetacei: The Nolan "Batman" movies were the worst trilogy since Episodes 1-3 of Star Wars. Maybe the next reboot will get Batman right. Nolan's movies were a pseudo-intellectual, boring mess. Nolan must either hate superheroes or he must just not understand them at all. Making a "realistic" superhero movie is a nonsensical goal. The essence of superheroes is that they represent escapism, not reality. It's very hard to take something that is essentially fantastic and put it in a "realistic" setting. Remember the live-action Flintstones movies and the reception they received? It's a similar concept. Maybe it's possible to do that with Batman. Obviously Nolan is not the director to do it.

Now he's off to ruin Superman for another generation. There won't be a Justice League movie for decades to come. And people wonder why Marvel is miles ahead in getting their characters translated into movies successfully.


I agree with all of this. I would argue with the Episodes 1-3 point, but you said "since" then, and I can't think of any trilogy worse than that since Revenge of the Sith came out, so the point stands.
 
2012-07-31 02:24:57 AM  

cetacei: The Nolan "Batman" movies were the worst trilogy since Episodes 1-3 of Star Wars. Maybe the next reboot will get Batman right. Nolan's movies were a pseudo-intellectual, boring mess. Nolan must either hate superheroes or he must just not understand them at all. Making a "realistic" superhero movie is a nonsensical goal. The essence of superheroes is that they represent escapism, not reality. It's very hard to take something that is essentially fantastic and put it in a "realistic" setting. Remember the live-action Flintstones movies and the reception they received? It's a similar concept. Maybe it's possible to do that with Batman. Obviously Nolan is not the director to do it.

Now he's off to ruin Superman for another generation. There won't be a Justice League movie for decades to come. And people wonder why Marvel is miles ahead in getting their characters translated into movies successfully.


You're right, these movies bombed just like that flintstones movie. How would you prefer your Batman? With nipples and a bat credit card? In the words of the freezinator, "chill out"


//Ice to meet you
 
2012-07-31 02:26:43 AM  

Strolpol: I was also considerably bothered by just how much they bang that nuke around. I mean, no one else flinched when the truck carrying the nuke did a nose-dive? How about when he hooks it up to his plane and starts DRAGGING IT around?


To be fair, only a fairly specific subcategory of explosives goes off when subjected to kinetic shock (i.e. being banged around). Since the stated mechanism for detonation involves a radio (well, EM anyhow) detonator or radioactive decay, physical shock wouldn't particularly do anything. You cannot bump an isotope into decaying faster, at least not by just chucking it into a hard surface, generally speaking.

Maybe you've seen a few too many westerns? The cheapest and overall most convenient explosives in the 1800s/very early 1900s were nitrated organics, most notably nitroglycerin, which is subject to shock detonation and heat detonation at a fairly low temperature, and nitrotoluene, which you can light with a bit of burning cloth or paper. This meant that the bulk of industrial explosives could go off if you dropped them too hoard, be set off by fire, be set off by other things exploding, and so on.

While TNT and nitro are still in use today (the latter mostly in the form of dynamite, which is nitro soaked into cotton or a similar substance to keep it stable against shock), especially in poorer countries (because they're cheap as all hell, I could make nitro with shiat off the shelf at Wal-Mart pretty easily, albeit not safely), the predominant industrial explosives used in the first world are not shock-sensitive and intentionally have extremely high ignition temperatures so that heat ignition requires something uncommon like magnesium powder, and electrical arc, or another low explosive. I could juggle C4, use a block of it as a football, and put out cigars on it all day and all I'd get is possibly food poisoning from cross-contamination. I think popular awareness is kind of catching up to the science because this has been the case since the 1950s at the latest, so movie-makers don't feel they can get away with the "oh, no, he dropped the nuke" *kaboom* stuff anymore.

//This is why one of the proposed counters for nuclear missiles was "just shoot the missiles right back". Nuclear detonation is dependent on accelerating some particles or a slug of matter pretty damned fast, if you blow up the missile with another missile the result will be a broken accelerator and a fairly useless lump of poisonous metal, not a nuclear explosion.

//Admittedly I'd still be worried about banging against a lightpost and the line holding the bomb breaking, 'cause then you're back to your "shiat, a bomb in the city" problem.
 
2012-07-31 02:30:42 AM  

one small post for man: But Dr. Pavel spent like three seconds doing some science stuff to it and made it a bomb. Are you saying you know more than a fictional nuclear physicist?


Well, I wouldn't argue with one:

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-07-31 02:31:41 AM  

SilentBobCDN: My girlfriends biggest issue with TDKR was a two parter:

First, about the likelyhood of the helicopter travelling at least 3 miles out into the ocean carrying the aforementioned "bomb" in the short period of time (I didnt have time to get my stopwatch out to time it) before it exploded, leading me to...

Secondly, no one commented at all about what massive damage that bomb has done to the Atlantic, or the fallout that is likely to rain back on New Yo- I mean Gotham.


Fusion is actually very clean (besides the explosion I mean) and the bomb was the solution to the world's energy problems in the first place, which probably meant clean power. (But that doesn't explain how the military was tracking the radiation.)
 
2012-07-31 02:36:41 AM  
He clearly threw a rope down the hole for the others, I don't know how you could miss that.


....... And they all lived happily ever after.
 
2012-07-31 02:38:13 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: However, once again, this is fictional, and simply the fact that it was a fusion device is not a sufficient reason to conclude it wouldn't have created a nuclear explosion.

/engineer+physicist


Then you should be annoyed too. How can you make a radioactive fusor that can also be weaponized. Admittedly a Russian or American is the most likely to blow something up if it can be blown up, but still.

I mean, you must have seen fusion labs. You can make a tiny fusor in your kitchen. It's online. They can't be blown up.
 
2012-07-31 02:41:23 AM  
It's about appointing oneself the supreme arbiter of taste above all those disgusting little plebs.

Learn how to spell "plebes" you plebe!
 
2012-07-31 02:56:02 AM  
I feel like anytime somebody says anything critical about the movie, all the Batman die hards just stick their fingers in ears and yell NA-NA-NA-NA-BATMAN!!!! until somebody says something good about it again. It had its moments but definitely was not as good as many expected from Nolan.
 
2012-07-31 02:58:12 AM  
I really enjoyed these movies, despite some serious flaws. I don't really care about supposed plot holes. Nine times out of ten, claims of plot holes come from someone that wasn't paying attention or someone that needs everything spelled out for them in detailed exposition. I also don't care about complaints regarding realism. These movies are not realistic. They are vaguely more realistic than most other superhero movies, but that's saying very little.

The flaws that bother me most are in the portrayal of Batman. He's boring, and he's not a detective. Really, these are Batman movies and he's the least interesting character in all of them. And I don't think that's Bale's fault. I think that it's just taken for granted that the audience will root for Batman, and so we're never given any real reason to like him or care about him. It's ridiculous how uninteresting they made the star character.

But like I said, I still really enjoy the movies overall.
 
2012-07-31 04:52:40 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Strolpol: I was also considerably bothered by just how much they bang that nuke around. I mean, no one else flinched when the truck carrying the nuke did a nose-dive? How about when he hooks it up to his plane and starts DRAGGING IT around?

To be fair, only a fairly specific subcategory of explosives goes off when subjected to kinetic shock (i.e. being banged around). Since the stated mechanism for detonation involves a radio (well, EM anyhow) detonator or radioactive decay, physical shock wouldn't particularly do anything. You cannot bump an isotope into decaying faster, at least not by just chucking it into a hard surface, generally speaking.

Maybe you've seen a few too many westerns? The cheapest and overall most convenient explosives in the 1800s/very early 1900s were nitrated organics, most notably nitroglycerin, which is subject to shock detonation and heat detonation at a fairly low temperature, and nitrotoluene, which you can light with a bit of burning cloth or paper. This meant that the bulk of industrial explosives could go off if you dropped them too hoard, be set off by fire, be set off by other things exploding, and so on.

While TNT and nitro are still in use today (the latter mostly in the form of dynamite, which is nitro soaked into cotton or a similar substance to keep it stable against shock), especially in poorer countries (because they're cheap as all hell, I could make nitro with shiat off the shelf at Wal-Mart pretty easily, albeit not safely), the predominant industrial explosives used in the first world are not shock-sensitive and intentionally have extremely high ignition temperatures so that heat ignition requires something uncommon like magnesium powder, and electrical arc, or another low explosive. I could juggle C4, use a block of it as a football, and put out cigars on it all day and all I'd get is possibly food poisoning from cross-contamination. I think popular awareness is kind of catching up to the science because this has ...


Feel better?
 
2012-07-31 04:56:56 AM  

Bonanza Jellybean: My issue: If you were gonna blow up Gotham anyway, why not trigger it as soon as you see the flaming bat emblem? Why wait until Batman is already within arm's-length of farking up your plans? Obviously, it was written this way to build up to the (ooh, ah) Talia reveal (an utter cop-out), but come on.


Maybe because they wanted to see the look on his face when they blew up Gotham? Why else would you stay in the blast radius of the bomb with the exit guarded by the police/army from the outside. bane and Talia were well within blast radius when the bomb had 10 minutes left meaning they were planning to die for there revenge, even if it made no sense.

My main gripe is that the bomb had 90 seconds on the clock and catwoman took the time to kiss batman. Batman had to fly in between various buildings, over some outskirts of the greater metropolitan area and then fly another 6 miles (blast radius of the bomb) in about a minute. (At least) 8 miles in a minute is 480 mph between skyscrapers while dragging the bomb for the first bit. the fastest helicopter went about 250 mph, doubling that in a craft designed for use in urban areas? No way. Just give the bomb 5 minutes instead of going for the last minute save.
 
2012-07-31 04:58:20 AM  

SilentBobCDN: My girlfriends biggest issue with TDKR was a two parter:

First, about the likelyhood of the helicopter travelling at least 3 miles out into the ocean carrying the aforementioned "bomb" in the short period of time (I didnt have time to get my stopwatch out to time it) before it exploded, leading me to...

Back of the envelope calculations: The world's fastest helicopter is the Sikorsky X2 which travels at 299 mph. We know the bomb has a 6 mile detonation radius, so he would have to fly into the lower Manhattan bay. Assuming a starting point near the Holland Tunnel, it would only take about 2.5 minutes to fly far enough into the bay to get all landmass clear of the blast radius. This doesn't seem unreasonable.

Secondly, no one commented at all about what massive damage that bomb has done to the Atlantic, or the fallout that is likely to rain back on New Yo- I mean Gotham.

Dr. Pavel describes the weapon as a neutron bomb. Someone more familiar with nuclear physics can speak to the persistence of radiation from such a weapon, but my recollection is that energetic neutrons are far more short lived than the byproducts of a standard nuclear blast. Given that the weapon was a fusion-only device (no fission trigger) you wouldn't have the fallout associated with a fission weapon. As far as damage done to the ocean, we've set off dozens of weapons in the Pacific without any significant damage to the ocean.

 
2012-07-31 04:59:55 AM  
Freaking italic tags...
 
2012-07-31 05:04:24 AM  

jeanwearinfool: feel better?


We're in a geek tab thread about a movie about a comic book, discussing a technical gripe about a science fiction device.

You seriously have an objection to a long, academic post on practical chemistry in this context? Because that'd be kinda like going to FreeRepublic and complaining that people are being too political.
 
2012-07-31 05:47:49 AM  
Saw it last night was a really good movie. Didn't have a problem with any of it except the distance from the city/nuke bomb thing in LESS than 60 seconds.
 
2012-07-31 05:59:10 AM  

Klippoklondike: God Is My Co-Pirate: Props to the actor playing Bane, though. It can't be easy to convey that much emotion with half your face covered.

While I was very disappointed with the film I have to agree about Tom Hardy's performance. He was very, very good. The rest of the movie...meh.


Tom Hardy's only problem was that he was following up after Heath Ledger, a man who literally redefined the Joker by injecting 13 tons of awesome into every minute of his performance, and then died. Between those two it's a tough act to follow.

I rather enjoyed the film. As I said to my girlfriend, it's just as good as the first film, which is to say the second film was still way better, but it was still a great film.

slayer199: My girlfriend and I discussed this at length (as well as some of the others). The dude lived off the grid for 7 years in his youth. If anything, Bruce Wayne is resourceful. He was broke...but he really wasn't broke. He was also very rich. What do the very rich like to do with their money? Put it in offshore accounts. It's more than likely that he had stashed millions in offshore accounts only known to him (which also explains the ending in more ways than one).


That's kind of where I was with it. That, and the fact that Bruce trained for years with an ostensibly terrorist organization that specializes in secrecy and infiltration. Between the two it's not hard to imagine that he might know how to sneak, steal, and barter his way back to the first world.

It even tracks with the events fairly well. Bane/Talia's stock scam wiped out all of Wayne's LEGITIMATE money; it's not like he could empty one of the offshore accounts and just say "oh yeah, I have ten million I found between the couch cushions" without a few raised eyebrows. Not to mention the various shell companies set up in the first movie that allow him to buy Batman gear without the two being linked. Tons of opportunity for him to squirrel money away that could remain untouched, so the ending makes a lot more sense.

Or, y'know, his master thief girlfriend could've spotted him the cash. Whatever.
 
2012-07-31 06:21:14 AM  
My problem with the movie is that it wasn't very good. The pacing was way off. Bad editing left space for people to start wondering about the feasibility of certain things is the first place. Also the characterization felt totally false in places, and no amount of acting could save it.

Remember in The Dark Knight when the Joker robbed a bank with a school bus, and then the school bus pulled out of the gaping whole of the back and into a line of other school buses without anyone noticing? Think about how little sense that makes. You didn't notice or care so much, because the scene worked. To many things in TDKR simply didn't work right.

I also would have cut out Catwomen completely. I like seeing Ann Hathaway in tight clothes as much as the next guy, but she was an extraneous and unnecessary character for the movie. Also, I know Heath Ledger died, but are really not mentioning the Joker at all? He's just been happily hanging out in a jail cell, with no attempt to escape?
 
2012-07-31 06:41:10 AM  

yukichigai: Tom Hardy's only problem was that he was following up after Heath Ledger, a man who literally redefined the Joker by injecting 13 tons of awesome into every minute of his performance, and then died. Between those two it's a tough act to follow.


To be fair, it's maybe not so much Ledger the actor as the Joker as a character that's a hard act to follow. Basically every time someone new has played the Joker they've been lauded as literally redefining the role and being 13 tons of awesome on a 1.5 ton truck, including Hamill when he did the voice acting for the cartoon.

He's just sort of the Lex Luthor of the Batman franchise, he's a villain, but also kind of the one sane man who realizes he's in a stupid action movie/comic strip on some subconscious level and makes the conscious decision to roll with it and swing for the fences. The sheer quantity of farks not given always makes this sort of character a fan favorite in a medium aimed primarily at 13-25-year-olds that like movies about punching shiat.
 
2012-07-31 06:41:21 AM  
I loved the movie. My only issue is why there wasn't footage of the orphans' eyes crisping in their sockets when they took it upon themselves to stare wide-eyed at a four megaton nuclear blast happening only six miles away.
 
2012-07-31 07:15:46 AM  

SilentBobCDN: My girlfriends biggest issue with TDKR was a two parter:

First, about the likelyhood of the helicopter travelling at least 3 miles out into the ocean carrying the aforementioned "bomb" in the short period of time (I didnt have time to get my stopwatch out to time it) before it exploded, leading me to...

Secondly, no one commented at all about what massive damage that bomb has done to the Atlantic, or the fallout that is likely to rain back on New Yo- I mean Gotham.


We were bothered by this too. If I remember right, in the movie they said the fusion reactor had been converted into a 400 megaton bomb. Which then detonated safely a few miles from the city.

Except that a much smaller 25 megaton bomb would level everything in a 10 mile radius. Plus, if you are downwind, the fallout will kill anything within 90 miles within a few days. Oh, and the 500 mph shock wave would cause a tsunami.

Also, it was really impressive how their unstable, decaying reactor had such a precise timer on it, counting down over months to the exact moment it would lose containment and blow.
 
2012-07-31 07:44:27 AM  
The movie is an utter failure. Having Bane be the big bad guy and then only later discovering that he is just the lapdog of some evil woman completely ruins his character. Nothing he does is actually part of his plan. That means he's not a genius, only hired muscle. He's also apparently 50 years old if he was that much older than talia when they escaped.

Why does talia stay in character right up until the end when Batman shows up as a surprise? Once they were sure Batman was never coming back wouldn't Talia have told the world who she really was? It's almost like she was just going to hide until the bomb exploded.

Manhattan has a population of 8 million and has 35,000 uniformed police officers. Gotham has a population of 12 million and apparently 3000 police officers. Poor civic planning.

Not only does Batman managed to get the bomb over the Bay far too quickly, I am also curious about how he seems to escape the blast radius in under one minute. Does he engage his new we fixed autopilot and then hit the supersonic ejector seat which blasts him away 6 miles in under one minute?

Why the fark is there a countdown timer on the fusion core?

Isn't making Wayne manner into an orphanage a risky proposition? What if a child finds the Batcave? I would hate to see an eight-year-old get a hold of all those bat-weapons.

Why does Bruce Wayne go off and live with a serial criminal who we have seen murder several people and steal many things and betray many many more people? I know it's Anne Hathaway, but seriously?

Why if Alfred is so concerned about Bruce being killed, does he leave making Bruce more vulnerable and likely to be killed?

Why, if Batman ceased being Batman eight years ago is Bruce so badly injured? It seems like he only ever had two major fights in his life. First he dealt with the scarecrow then he dealt with the Joker. Hardly enough to completely ruin a man's body. At least in this comic book world. That kind of damage would be accumulated from a lifetime of doing this sort of thing. Not doing it for two years and then giving it up.

Why did driving over the bridge kill talia immediately but leave 60-year-old already injured recently hospitalized Commissioner Gordon alive?

Why did Batman blowup the top of that skyscraper simply to clear it when he's in a vertical takeoff and landing vehicle? Most citizens of gotham we're still holed up in their homes at the time of him leaving, therefore he may have killed hundreds of people simply because he had to stop and kiss Catwoman before taking off. What a jerk.
 
2012-07-31 07:47:10 AM  

Mugato: He was never much of a detective either.


WTF are you smoking? Batman is one of the greatest detectives of all time. Of all time! If he had super powers they'd be super intelligence, gadgetry, and detective skillz. That's, like, his thing. It's one of the defining characteristics of Batman.
 
2012-07-31 08:03:13 AM  

Stile4aly: As far as damage done to the ocean, we've set off dozens of weapons in the Pacific without any significant damage to the ocean.


cdn.screenrant.com
The ocean, no, but Japan is under constant monster attack.
 
2012-07-31 08:09:20 AM  
Why do people take things so seriously? I mean, a film is ruined because of a timer on a countdown core? Some things are obviously put in for our, the viewers, benefit. That's just a fact of cinema. Deal the fark with it. Jeez.

I thought it was a great film but I still left the cinema with things to raise against it, but I won't let a few minor quibbles get in the way of my enjoyment. The article and this thread serve as a testament to the fact that most of you weren't paying attention to the film and then complained about bits you missed. The whole throwing the rope down into the prison bit is a prime example. It was farking obviously clear in the film he dropped the rope back in, if you missed it you weren't paying attention. A guy I watched the film with asked how Batman got over a broken back in a couple of days... Not paying attention can ruin a film.

A few gripes I had with the film were the fact that I think firstly a little more effort could have been used to distinguish Gotham from New York City, Batman could have done less driving and flying with crappy batmobiles, batbikes and batcopters, and more fighting. Probably unpopular but I think there hasn't been a decent batmobile since the Adam We 60s batman. It was a cool looking vehicle to get him to a fight. That's all it needs to be.

Also the film was very light, when Gotham should be a very dark place. I don't know if this was a deliberate directional choice to illustrate something about the lifting of crime from the city, but I like the dark Gotham.

Perhaps I should disclaim that I never read the comic books, I've seen a few, my brother likes them, but I think they're crap. I also never really like superhero films until Batman Begins. I'm sure I'm looking at these films, and Batman himself, in a completely different way than the die hard fans from comic book era, but ultimately I think some let themselves fall into hating the film for too trivial reasons.

It's not like some guy in a cave and some cable fashioned a suit that superheated the cable with plasma or something from a small nuclear device which allowed him to jump onto an F1 track and cut some cars in half.
 
2012-07-31 08:11:39 AM  
A shrill nerd defending his terrible taste in comic book movies........................ on the internet?

NOW I've seen EVERYTHING.
 
2012-07-31 08:14:01 AM  

Honest Bender: Mugato: He was never much of a detective either.

WTF are you smoking? Batman is one of the greatest detectives of all time. Of all time! If he had super powers they'd be super intelligence, gadgetry, and detective skillz. That's, like, his thing. It's one of the defining characteristics of Batman.


I said in the movies, not the comics.
 
2012-07-31 08:15:37 AM  
Bain's Stock Scam Would Never Work In The Real World

But it did to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars
 
2012-07-31 08:17:05 AM  

Digitalstrange: Britney Spear's Speculum: mgshamster: Wasn't scarecrow in the asylum? He got out.

He wasn't in the asylum, he was running around the streets with guys in hockey pads dressed up as batman in the dark knight.

except Batman left him trussed up at the end of that scene for pickup to go back to Arkham. He was back in custody


I didn't realize they sent him to Arkham. I didn't think he was particularly crazy.
 
2012-07-31 08:18:19 AM  

FabulousFreep: Saw it last night was a really good movie. Didn't have a problem with any of it except the distance from the city/nuke bomb thing in LESS than 60 seconds.


It was a small device capable of leveling 6 square miles. The Bat was capable of more than 6 miles from the city in 60 seconds.
 
2012-07-31 08:26:12 AM  

Slaxl: A guy I watched the film with asked how Batman got over a broken back in a couple of days... Not paying attention can ruin a film.


So, serious question for everyone: did they ever explicitly state his back was broken in the film? I've read Knightfall, I know Bane certainly broke his back there, but in the film, I'm pretty sure all they said was he "slipped a disc" or something, not full on bones breaking. Not a doctor, but I imagine a slipped disc is far less severe than vertebrae snapping in half.
 
2012-07-31 08:30:15 AM  

farkityfarker: They forgot "Why would anyone go see a movie about a man who dresses up in a silly bat costume to fight crime?"


Why would anyone post in a thread about a movie they disdain?

/the answers are similar, I'd wager.
 
2012-07-31 08:31:50 AM  

YodaBlues: Slaxl: A guy I watched the film with asked how Batman got over a broken back in a couple of days... Not paying attention can ruin a film.

So, serious question for everyone: did they ever explicitly state his back was broken in the film? I've read Knightfall, I know Bane certainly broke his back there, but in the film, I'm pretty sure all they said was he "slipped a disc" or something, not full on bones breaking. Not a doctor, but I imagine a slipped disc is far less severe than vertebrae snapping in half.


Bruce had a dislocated vertebrae; no severing of the spinal cord.
 
2012-07-31 08:32:26 AM  
Much of what is said in the article is true. I never saw "plot holes" in the film, just some subjective choices or things which strained my disbelief. Frankly, my slight problem with what seems to be the biggest strain for many, the back injury, is this could have been approached in a manner better fitting into the story of revenge, the atmosphere of the prison, and Bruce's concern for his own inability after the death of Rachel all while never straining disbelief. The injury should have been primarily psychological with loss of function of his legs. He has just been "broken" by Bane, been betrayed by Selina, failed to save Gotham, given the keys to Gotham's destruction to a terrorist organization, and is thousands of miles away in an inescapable prison; the physical healing is short, but he is mentally crippled. Just a thought with the benefit of hindsight.

Bigger issue is Catwoman. Hard to argue Anne Hathaway out of a film, especially one where she wears quite high heels and some black latex outfit, but Catwoman should not have been in the film. She brought Batman to Bane in an uninteresting set of scenes which did nothing to help develop the sense of either Bane or Batman; rather, Batman seemed gullible by having no contingency and blundering straight in through the tunnels. She destroyed some barriers in two seconds which frankly could've been done with supplies from Gordon or Batman or else the several months of time everyone had. Her character requires including another element in the film with the "Clean Slate" (Bruce never needs this as he "died"). With her, we never get an ambiguous ending, because you know a movie where Bruce escapes alone would not include Alfred flying off to find him and him sitting in a cafe somewhere. Last and worst, she kills Bane in terrible fashion; what an anticlimactic end to him.

She had unnecessary scenes throughout (negatively influencing the pacing and making the film feel laborious for some) and detracted from several characters. Plus, she was the campiest part of the whole film.

There, got that off my chest.
 
2012-07-31 08:34:54 AM  
I thought I b*tched about a lot of stupid stuff, but after reading this thread.......
 
2012-07-31 08:37:31 AM  

eldritch2k4: YodaBlues: Slaxl: A guy I watched the film with asked how Batman got over a broken back in a couple of days... Not paying attention can ruin a film.

So, serious question for everyone: did they ever explicitly state his back was broken in the film? I've read Knightfall, I know Bane certainly broke his back there, but in the film, I'm pretty sure all they said was he "slipped a disc" or something, not full on bones breaking. Not a doctor, but I imagine a slipped disc is far less severe than vertebrae snapping in half.

Bruce had a dislocated vertebrae; no severing of the spinal cord.


Exactly, he had a pretty bad back injury but it wasn't broken, the doctor dude said he had a vertebrae sticking out, so punched it back in. Who watched that and thought, "so you can fix a broken back by punching it... interesting!"
 
2012-07-31 08:47:41 AM  
Also keep in mind that we never see that there are any incompetent cops, just cops who aren't privy to the same information the audience is and jerk cops.

Um, they sent the entire police force into the sewers to look for Bane? That's pretty incompetent. Even if he hadn't trapped them down there, who were they counting on to stop all the regularly scheduled crimes happening on the surface?
 
2012-07-31 08:49:49 AM  
It amuses me that I went through pages of rants by professionals and not one asked, at any time, why Bane didn't just kill all those cops trapped underground

He figured the bomb would do that. And by keeping them alive until the bomb, he makes it look like he's a reasonable guy (for a terrorist)
 
2012-07-31 08:52:27 AM  

Vangor: Catwoman should not have been in the film


I thought she was great. And she was the only character who wasn't dead serious and earnest. She was also a welcome female in that sausage-fest (besides the psycho terrorist).

Matthew Modine's character, he was useless.
 
2012-07-31 08:52:59 AM  
And who says Wayne had no resources left?

Deception and theatricality are big themes in these movies. Was Bruce really "broke", or did he just not have any checks coming in from Wayne Enterprises? In Batman Begins, he engineered the takeover of Wayne Enterprises completely under the noses of the board. Rich people have ways of hiding money, and they have rich friends - it would only have taken a few grand at most to get Wayne back to Gotham.

But if he didn't have any resources left, and was totally broke, he lived off the grid as a criminal for several years before becoming Batman. He could easily have stolen or conned people out of what he needed to get back home.
 
2012-07-31 08:54:31 AM  

Jim_Callahan: but also kind of the one sane man who realizes he's in a stupid action movie/comic strip on some subconscious level and makes the conscious decision to roll with it and swing for the fences. The sheer quantity of farks not given always makes this sort of character a fan favorite in a medium aimed primarily at 13-25-year-olds that like movies about punching shiat.


That is a very astute analysis.
 
2012-07-31 08:58:30 AM  

Imperious Rex!: BafflerMeal: Digitalstrange: GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?

he didn't wear the rope the final time. That was the point. If you wore the rope you had a safety net.

Except for the *giant* pile of coiled rope right by the edge at the top as he climbed out that he chose not to lower back in...

Yeah....except that he did throw that giant pile of coiled rope back down into the pit.


I always thought it would be an awesome prank to cut two different versions of the same movie and not tell anybody, only changing minor details. Maybe they finally pulled it off?
Because seriously, how the hell could somebody have noticed the big pile of freaking rope, but then missed Bruce Wayne tossing the rope down to them?

That also helps answer the question of how he got back to Gotham. Bane has powerful enemies. Those powerful enemies now owe Batman a favor.
 
2012-07-31 08:59:48 AM  

serial_crusher: Also keep in mind that we never see that there are any incompetent cops, just cops who aren't privy to the same information the audience is and jerk cops.

Um, they sent the entire police force into the sewers to look for Bane? That's pretty incompetent. Even if he hadn't trapped them down there, who were they counting on to stop all the regularly scheduled crimes happening on the surface?


What kind of city would do stupid things like that?
Maybe a city that needed the Goddamn Batman to watch over it.

/Considering the scale of event Bane had planned, using all of your forces to stop him might have seemed like a good idea at the time.
/As good an idea as dressing up in a costume instead of paying your old league of shadow contacts to do the patrolling for you.
/Its a superhero movie, not a documentary. Once you get past that you can eat the popcorn and enjoy it.
 
2012-07-31 09:02:17 AM  
The plot hole that slightly bugs me is the bat cave. If Bruce hasn't been Batman since the end of the last movie which was 8 years before this movie, why bother even building the cave?

I'll suspend disbelief in that Wayne Manor was almost completed by the end of the 2nd movie, or at least the foundation in the corner was shored up. So after hanging up the cape and cowl and not being involved with the world for the last 8 years, what foundation was there for Alfred to say, "Its been a long time since you've been down here," when aside from putting away his toys he never really had a reason to even go down there in the first place.
 
2012-07-31 09:06:00 AM  

beerdini: The plot hole that slightly bugs me is the bat cave. If Bruce hasn't been Batman since the end of the last movie which was 8 years before this movie, why bother even building the cave?


The manor burned down but the cave wasn't affected. That's why they fled to the cave when the manor was burning
 
2012-07-31 09:07:32 AM  
The trilogy as a whole was entertaining, and I guess that is the best you can ask for.

But for a next installment of Bats, I think maybe a period piece set in like the 40's would be really fun. Make Bats more of the detective, and have his gadgets be something that while for the time may be advanced, but for us would seem a more realistic.

Thinking along of the line of that Spiderman Noir version they did.
 
2012-07-31 09:17:47 AM  
I want to know why Superman left a con trail.
 
2012-07-31 09:17:58 AM  
For all the people talking about escaping the city with the bomb - while clearly nuclear we have no other clue as to how powerful the bomb ACTUALLY was.

The only details we have are the assurances of a mass-murderer suicidal terrorist with a severe drug problem who was making a public statement intended to introduce fear and uncertainty to the city and country. And the fact that Talia made her plan around it.

Why would you assume Bane was telling the truth? Or even knew the truth?
 
2012-07-31 09:18:38 AM  
It's butthurt, pure and simple. Either Nolan isn't living the artistic life that critics demand he does so they can vicariously live through him, or he didn't follow up a classic with nearly freakish connections to the American subconscious with another one.

"That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call 'The Prestige'."
 
2012-07-31 09:19:59 AM  

Wellon Dowd: I want to know why Superman left a con trail.


A full bladder at the sound barrier can lead to issues even for a man with a steel urethra.
 
2012-07-31 09:20:28 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Therefore, if there were some way to actually create a fusion reaction, which there must be given that it is a fusion reactor we're talking about, it would probably explode with just as much if not more energy than a conventional fission reactor could.


Want to know how I know you know nothing about how fission reactors work?

Fission reactors don't explode due to a runaway chain reaction of a critical mass chunk of fissile material. Fission reactors "explode" when the controlled fission reaction loses control, the rods overheat and the cooling water surrounding them boils away and creates a high pressure steam that eventually builds to the point that it overwhelms the concrete containment shell and explodes. If you were to remove the containment shell ahead of time and drain all the water, the fuel rods would overheat and melt, releasing massive amounts of radiation in the process, but there would be no explosion, just a very hot hole in the ground.

The only way the exploding fusion cell makes any sense at all is if the fusion reaction were entirely contained within the piece they removed and it was being held in check by some sort of electromagnetic containment also powered solely by the piece they removed. One could be powered by the other IF there was some way of converting the energy released by the fusion reaction directly into electricity, but using today's standards, that's even more far fetched that creating the fusion reactor to begin with. But even then it couldn't possibly be using ALL of the energy released, so it would have to go somewhere as waste heat, meaning the entire thing would turn into a pool of molten slag the moment it was removed. If the cell output was reduced to a level that it was only powering the containment then there wouldn't be much left for a city-leveling explosion.
 
2012-07-31 09:26:15 AM  

Tiber727: How did Bane know about the secret warehouse under Wayne Enterprises?

If your greatest fear about a prototype nuclear reactor is that it can be turned into a weapon, why make it removable from the container that prevents that from happening? And why build this fancy display that will perfectly count down to when it blows up?

How did that copter manage to outrun missiles anyway?

And lastly, why did Batman decide to forgo the use of pretty much all gadgets to engage the bad guy in a straight-up fistfight?


Because he worked for Talia, who had been there......
 
2012-07-31 09:37:52 AM  
Just thought I'd chip in and repeat a comment I've read on another forum:

(Paraphrasing) The timer on the "bomb" wasn't counting down to detonation, just to when the core would become unstable, so it's feasible that Batman actually had more time to get away from Gotham.

You might argue that that's incorrect, but personally I think if you're prepared to drag up various articles and journal articles about the behavior of fusion reactors, then you're really going out of your way to not enjoy yourself.

/Enjoyed the film, quibbles and all
//Only thing that bothers me is I would have liked another movie to slip in before the League of Shadows return
 
2012-07-31 09:39:27 AM  

SomeAmerican: SilentBobCDN: My girlfriends biggest issue with TDKR was a two parter:

First, about the likelyhood of the helicopter travelling at least 3 miles out into the ocean carrying the aforementioned "bomb" in the short period of time (I didnt have time to get my stopwatch out to time it) before it exploded, leading me to...

Secondly, no one commented at all about what massive damage that bomb has done to the Atlantic, or the fallout that is likely to rain back on New Yo- I mean Gotham.

We were bothered by this too. If I remember right, in the movie they said the fusion reactor had been converted into a 400 megaton bomb. Which then detonated safely a few miles from the city.

Except that a much smaller 25 megaton bomb would level everything in a 10 mile radius. Plus, if you are downwind, the fallout will kill anything within 90 miles within a few days. Oh, and the 500 mph shock wave would cause a tsunami.

Also, it was really impressive how their unstable, decaying reactor had such a precise timer on it, counting down over months to the exact moment it would lose containment and blow.


You're not remembering right. It had a 4-megaton yield. And it's specifically stated in the movie to have a blast radius of 6 miles.
 
2012-07-31 09:49:01 AM  
Now my one issue with the movie?

How Lt. Gordon is still alive at the end when he was trapped in a giant metal box with a highly radioactive bomb. The truck could set off geiger counters from the outside, yet he's climbing all over it and planting radio blockers on it and falling off bridges with it.

He should've at least been losing hair by the end.
 
2012-07-31 10:10:26 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Now my one issue with the movie?

How Lt. Gordon is still alive at the end when he was trapped in a giant metal box with a highly radioactive bomb. The truck could set off geiger counters from the outside, yet he's climbing all over it and planting radio blockers on it and falling off bridges with it.

He should've at least been losing hair by the end.



The twist is that everyone in Gotham dies from cancer 6 months later. The end.
 
2012-07-31 10:10:34 AM  
Was it Bane and Talia's plan to die along with the bomb explosion all along? Why would they make a plan like that?
 
2012-07-31 10:10:36 AM  

alwaysjaded: FTFA: My problem with the articles I've been seeing is that they try to elevate personal dislike or minor errors into a gross artistic mistake. Just like Jim Emerson's disgraceful video about how The Dark Knight had, like, totally crappy editing, this isn't about the movies. It's about appointing oneself the supreme arbiter of taste above all those disgusting little plebs.

I really couldn't have agreed with that more. There's quite a few Farkers that think that their opinions are the final word on everything. The comment is usually filled with a lot of name calling and cries to the heavens about how they're the only ones stuck with the intellectual burden of telling all of us how we should really feel about a movie.


I never understood how Watchmen became all about big blue wang.
 
2012-07-31 10:12:17 AM  

Wellon Dowd: I want to know why Superman left a con trail.


His powers of Super Swindling.
 
2012-07-31 10:13:51 AM  

Samwise Gamgee: Was it Bane and Talia's plan to die along with the bomb explosion all along? Why would they make a plan like that?


Well, in Bane's case, because Talia told him to.

As for Talia, just write her off as totally insane, and be done with it.
 
2012-07-31 10:14:33 AM  
Now I have a question for you: Why would a man with a shirt that says "Genius at Work" be watching a movie for children?
 
2012-07-31 10:15:34 AM  

StrangeQ: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Therefore, if there were some way to actually create a fusion reaction, which there must be given that it is a fusion reactor we're talking about, it would probably explode with just as much if not more energy than a conventional fission reactor could.

Want to know how I know you know nothing about how fission reactors work?

Fission reactors don't explode due to a runaway chain reaction of a critical mass chunk of fissile material. Fission reactors "explode" when the controlled fission reaction loses control, the rods overheat and the cooling water surrounding them boils away and creates a high pressure steam that eventually builds to the point that it overwhelms the concrete containment shell and explodes. If you were to remove the containment shell ahead of time and drain all the water, the fuel rods would overheat and melt, releasing massive amounts of radiation in the process, but there would be no explosion, just a very hot hole in the ground.

The only way the exploding fusion cell makes any sense at all is if the fusion reaction were entirely contained within the piece they removed and it was being held in check by some sort of electromagnetic containment also powered solely by the piece they removed. One could be powered by the other IF there was some way of converting the energy released by the fusion reaction directly into electricity, but using today's standards, that's even more far fetched that creating the fusion reactor to begin with. But even then it couldn't possibly be using ALL of the energy released, so it would have to go somewhere as waste heat, meaning the entire thing would turn into a pool of molten slag the moment it was removed. If the cell output was reduced to a level that it was only powering the containment then there wouldn't be much left for a city-leveling explosion.


Yea. That part of the movie lost me more than others. I dusted off the part of my brain that deals with sci fi plot holes and tropes, and told myself it's an antimatter-catalyzed reactor core, exotic technical requirements not-withstanding (It's a movie, and it's the goddamn Batman). Reactor isn't running, but the antimatter is still there (albeit in absurdly large quantities). Batteries fail, magnetics are lost, antimatter goes boom along with the lithium/deuterium core.

That's all a stretch mixed with a healthy dose of pseudo-science, I know, but it got me over that disbelief hump.
 
2012-07-31 10:16:28 AM  
There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.
 
2012-07-31 10:21:16 AM  

Samwise Gamgee: Was it Bane and Talia's plan to die along with the bomb explosion all along? Why would they make a plan like that?


Because they're fanatics. Talia was willing to die to fulfill her father's ideas. Bane was willing to die for Talia.
 
2012-07-31 10:22:29 AM  
Just saw it last night. My only complaint was the hollywood ending. The trilogy, and especially the Batman franchise, deserved better than to have everything tied up with a pretty bow. Let him be dead, ffs. More emotional impact that way, and then you know it's farking over.

/oh, and fallout. Those people were still farked.
 
2012-07-31 10:23:45 AM  

Slaxl: There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.


That's because there won't be. The entire point of that scene (and setting Levitt up as a competent, but scorned by the justice system, detective) was to leave Gotham with a caped crusader. Not THE caped crusader mind you, but someone that can still protect Gotham since Batman is gone. Nolan is done with the Batman franchise.
 
2012-07-31 10:25:23 AM  

doglover: Fusion doesn't explode. Hydrogen bombs only explode because a fission bomb is used first to make the hydrogen detonate in a very big and uncontrolled fusion reaction that ends fairly quickly but is epic in scale.

A fusion reactor would have so little material inside that even if we all farked off and just let that shiat blow up, it probably wouldn't even damage the reactor itself. Especially considering that it's really hard to make things keep fusing. Atoms don't spontaneously do that without stellar amounts of gravity.

So the whole premise of "We've got a nuke." is silly. Even if you could make it thus, it wouldn't work like that. At best, it would be anchored to the reactor at all times.


I understand the complaint, but it's a fictional fusion reactor set in a universe where the laws of physics clearly don't work exactly like they do in our own (otherwise 99% of his gadgets would fail, too), so, yeah, even though this is probably DNDTR, I'll give it a pass.
 
2012-07-31 10:25:48 AM  

chopit: The trilogy, and especially the Batman franchise, deserved better than to have everything tied up with a pretty bow. Let him be dead, ffs. More emotional impact that way, and then you know it's farking over.


I thought giving everyone a happy ending was a great "twist" in an otherwise bleak series.
 
2012-07-31 10:26:09 AM  
My only two real "wtf" moments were Gordon surviving in the back of that truck when it crashed and in the second fight, Bane punching through concrete pillars during their second fight. I can pretty much overlook everything else but those two things, for whatever reason, really bothered me.
 
2012-07-31 10:26:27 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: They didn't really address what happened to Joker. And yes, I know they couldn't very well have a flashback to a scene where batman or someone offs The Joker for the obvious reason.


A lot of Bane's speeches sounded like things the Joker would have said. I kept thinking about how the movie would have been different if Heath hadn't died. It was a good but not great movie, but would have been ridiculously good with the Joker.
 
2012-07-31 10:27:47 AM  

Mugato: Britney Spear's Speculum: They didn't really address what happened to Joker

There's not much to say, he's sitting in Arkham Asylum. I don' think Bane let those people out.


Scarecrow was the judge, wasn't he?
 
2012-07-31 10:31:03 AM  

chopit: Just saw it last night. My only complaint was the hollywood ending. The trilogy, and especially the Batman franchise, deserved better than to have everything tied up with a pretty bow. Let him be dead, ffs. More emotional impact that way, and then you know it's farking over.

/oh, and fallout. Those people were still farked.


Eastern seaboard. Bomb to the east of the city by miles. Wind blows east. People don't die of cancer in gotham.

Nuclear weapons are not magic cancer creating devices. We have lots of folks in the last century who have been exposed during various testing bombs (including some guys who stood directly under an airburst) who did just fine.
 
2012-07-31 10:31:39 AM  

rtaylor92: My only two real "wtf" moments were Gordon surviving in the back of that truck when it crashed and in the second fight, Bane punching through concrete pillars during their second fight. I can pretty much overlook everything else but those two things, for whatever reason, really bothered me.


Hey I was wondering how Gordon survived all that radiation exposure.

I chalked Bane's punching power up to a combination of pain and adrenaline. He just had his mask punctured/broken by Batman, so the pain he was experiencing would be immeasurable. Add in the adrenaline from the pain and the massive fight, and it's not entirely unbelievable he could knock some plaster off a pillar. It wasn't like he punched straight through them.
 
2012-07-31 10:32:42 AM  

Bullseyed: Scarecrow was the judge, wasn't he?


Yeah, I didn't know he was in Arkham. I figured he was in regular prison because he wasn't really crazy. He was working with Ra's al Ghoul to gas the city but he thought it was a hostage thing.
 
2012-07-31 10:38:13 AM  

Solon Isonomia: The one continuity error that bothered me was the motorcycle chase. Starts off in the middle of the day and ends in the dead of night despite the program needing only minutes, not hours, to be complete.


Yeah I didn't have any problems really with "plot holes," just that continuity error. It could make sense considering they could have been in that tunnel for awhile, but no way it goes from that bright before the market closes to that dark unless its the dead of winter which it wasn't
 
2012-07-31 10:39:03 AM  

Slaxl: There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.


Robin The Boy Wonder has never been named "Robin" That was just Blake's real first name, I imagine it was a cheeky nod to the character, especially when Blake said he never liked the name. If that's ever played on, it'll be with Blake as Nightwing, not Robin.
 
2012-07-31 10:41:22 AM  

thecpt: Yeah I didn't have any problems really with "plot holes," just that continuity error. It could make sense considering they could have been in that tunnel for awhile, but no way it goes from that bright before the market closes to that dark unless its the dead of winter which it wasn't


Didn't notice that. Hard to believe that could happen in a $250mill movie.
 
2012-07-31 10:45:12 AM  

Mugato: thecpt: Yeah I didn't have any problems really with "plot holes," just that continuity error. It could make sense considering they could have been in that tunnel for awhile, but no way it goes from that bright before the market closes to that dark unless its the dead of winter which it wasn't

Didn't notice that. Hard to believe that could happen in a $250mill movie.


Yea I didn't snap to it either, but it's pretty obvious now. I guess Nolan wanted to show off Batman's "I can turn off every light in this tunnel with one switch" switch.
 
2012-07-31 10:46:46 AM  

ODDwhun: So, wait, you were OK with the constantly stoned body-builder, the decades-away fusion reactor, the insane helicopter, the city totally cut off from the rest of America by a terrorist, and the high-level jewel thief in a unitard on the motorcycle with the spinny wheel firing Howitzer shells, but the guy in the Batsuit getting over a broken back in a few months... that's what bothers you, Captain Scientific Accuracy?

I loled.

So in a trilogy that is supposed to be "realistic" we're supposed to accept this just cuz?


Realistic. That "ic" at the end is kind of critical. If this is the kind of thing that's bothering you, let's just go straight to saying that Batman can't exist.
 
2012-07-31 10:57:04 AM  
Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?
 
2012-07-31 10:58:47 AM  

Wellon Dowd: I want to know why Superman left a con trail.


You mean chem trail, right?

Superman is putting chemicals in the air, which make us believe he's here to help!
 
2012-07-31 11:00:00 AM  

Mugato: thecpt: Yeah I didn't have any problems really with "plot holes," just that continuity error. It could make sense considering they could have been in that tunnel for awhile, but no way it goes from that bright before the market closes to that dark unless its the dead of winter which it wasn't

Didn't notice that. Hard to believe that could happen in a $250mill movie.


It really was just one continuity error, but I have only seen the movie once. It's a stupid hobby, but I enjoy looking for those errors and most movies make plenty (drinks that bounce between full and half full, extras being in different places within the same conversation). Making one noticeable mistake isn't bad at all, but time of day isn't a normal mistake. Battlefield LA made the same mistake, and no movies want to share commonality with that thing.
 
2012-07-31 11:02:04 AM  
This is obviously the worst movie ever.
 
2012-07-31 11:02:11 AM  

odinsposse: Samwise Gamgee: Was it Bane and Talia's plan to die along with the bomb explosion all along? Why would they make a plan like that?

Because they're fanatics. Talia was willing to die to fulfill her father's ideas. Bane was willing to die for Talia.


Fear of death was necessary to get out of the prison. That's why Bruce was able to make it without the rope, just like Talia.

Also, the old man said "you need to fear death to escape".

I thought it was stupid that after going through all of that, Talia turned into suicide bomber.

Take out Selina. Take out Blake. Take out Talia. Take out the Lt. Commish. That cuts off the fat. Then, flesh out Bane. Finally, change the ending to have Alfred look up in the cafe, and smile, but instead of seeing Bruce, cut to a picture of Trollface Nolan.

Roll credits.
 
2012-07-31 11:03:06 AM  

Slaxl: There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.


"Robin" was just a nod to the fans. He's not Robin.
 
2012-07-31 11:04:45 AM  

Funbags: Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?


I was told in another thread yesterday it was because there were no Home Depots down there.

Bane kept sending down food and shaving kits down to the police force that he was going to blow up anyway because he's a nice guy and who cares it's about a movie where a dude dresses up as a bat.
 
2012-07-31 11:04:57 AM  

scottydoesntknow: rtaylor92: My only two real "wtf" moments were Gordon surviving in the back of that truck when it crashed and in the second fight, Bane punching through concrete pillars during their second fight. I can pretty much overlook everything else but those two things, for whatever reason, really bothered me.

Hey I was wondering how Gordon survived all that radiation exposure.

I chalked Bane's punching power up to a combination of pain and adrenaline. He just had his mask punctured/broken by Batman, so the pain he was experiencing would be immeasurable. Add in the adrenaline from the pain and the massive fight, and it's not entirely unbelievable he could knock some plaster off a pillar. It wasn't like he punched straight through them.


That's why I like the venom aspect of Bane. His mask wasn't supposed to be an analgesic, but an addictive drug that made him super strong and fast. When the mask gets broken, he goes into some severe withdrawals almost immediately. It would definitely explain why his character looked smaller in the prison, yet so powerful and large when fighting batman. Other than, you know, body building.
 
2012-07-31 11:09:22 AM  

SpoilerAlert: Funbags: Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?

I was told in another thread yesterday it was because there were no Home Depots down there.

Bane kept sending down food and shaving kits down to the police force that he was going to blow up anyway because he's a nice guy and who cares it's about a movie where a dude dresses up as a bat.


Well, remember, Bane wanted the people of Gotham to feel like they had a chance of surviving. It would make sense to include the police in that. His whole plan involved making people build up their hope, and then at the last second, destroy them while he watches that look of determination turn into horror.
 
2012-07-31 11:13:03 AM  

GreenAdder: Why didn't Batman lower the goddamn rope once he got to the top of the pit? He could have helped the people who helped him.
And don't say, "those prisoners deserved to be in there." How do you know that? Bane farking put them in there. Do you think he's a good arbiter of right and wrong?


He did.
 
2012-07-31 11:16:07 AM  

Nayman: The movie is an utter failure. Having Bane be the big bad guy and then only later discovering that he is just the lapdog of some evil woman completely ruins his character. Nothing he does is actually part of his plan. That means he's not a genius, only hired muscle. He's also apparently 50 years old if he was that much older than talia when they escaped.


I love how everyone seems to be under the impression that Bane is some mindless robot lapdog puppet of Talia in this film - like his entire existence is subordinate to her when in the film their relation is much more complex than some ridiculous puppetry. Bane is less 'love sick puppy' and more, 'doting father figure' for Talia, and in their scheming is brilliant and self-aware.

Bane is the one who can rally the men, and whip up a feverish devotion. Bane is the one that topples regimes. Bane is the one that directs the manpower. Bane is the one that eliminates Dagget.

Were you listening to the things that come out of Bane's mouth? His philosophy on power, on purpose and on drive? The man was not a lapdog.

Consider - Talia was a lone child in prison, whom he protected, paternally. He was inducted into the League of Shadows and took up her biological father's philosophy, and took it to the extremes. Watch again the way they act once she has been revealed, the gentle and intimate but completely non-sexual way that they interact. Then, finally take a look at when Talia gives him a direct order to leave Batman alive for the explosion. What does he do? Wait for her to leave and without hesitation goes to kill Batman - willing to indulge her fantasy of control over Batman's death, but not actually carry it out.

"Don't you do it, daddy!" I can almost see Talia stamping her little feet.
 
2012-07-31 11:20:45 AM  
This was Nolan's take on The Dark Knight Returns, with a touch of Knightfall mixed in. The ending alluded to Robin taking over at Wayne Manor, with an army of orphans (whether he uses them for Batscapades or not is uncertain). We have the faked death, the retaking of Gotham. It's all there.
 
2012-07-31 11:28:43 AM  

mgshamster: Well, remember, Bane wanted the people of Gotham to feel like they had a chance of surviving. It would make sense to include the police in that. His whole plan involved making people build up their hope, and then at the last second, destroy them while he watches that look of determination turn into horror.


Thank you.. It wasn't like he had a whole speech on that matter, or anything.
 
2012-07-31 11:29:06 AM  

Nayman: The movie is an utter failure. Having Bane be the big bad guy and then only later discovering that he is just the lapdog of some evil woman completely ruins his character. Nothing he does is actually part of his plan. That means he's not a genius, only hired muscle. He's also apparently 50 years old if he was that much older than talia when they escaped.


Bane is the acting head of the League of Shadows. Talia might be giving orders behind the scenes, but given that she's a mole in Gotham society, she can't be on the ground giving direction. Talia and Bane must have been trained by Ra's either immediately before Bruce, or between the destruction of the League and the death of Ra's. If they were trained after the destruction of the League and Bane was in his late teens when Ra's liberated the prison, then Bane is probably at least 5 years younger than Bruce.

Why does talia stay in character right up until the end when Batman shows up as a surprise? Once they were sure Batman was never coming back wouldn't Talia have told the world who she really was? It's almost like she was just going to hide until the bomb exploded.

Bane tells Bruce that the city won't be completely destroyed unless they are given hope up until the last minute. Gotham isn't just "Manhattan" and the surrounding boroughs have to have their wills broken by the months of status quo and hope followed by destruction.

Manhattan has a population of 8 million and has 35,000 uniformed police officers. Gotham has a population of 12 million and apparently 3000 police officers. Poor civic planning.

The 3000 trapped officers was not 100% of the police force, but it did seem to be most of the heavily armed officers. Traffic cops and meter maids aren't going to be able to stand up to Bane.

Not only does Batman managed to get the bomb over the Bay far too quickly, I am also curious about how he seems to escape the blast radius in under one minute. Does he engage his new we fixed autopilot and then hit the supersonic ejector seat which blasts him away 6 miles in under one minute?

I explain this above. It would take about 2.5 minutes to reach safe distance to go from the Holland Tunnel to a point 6 miles into the outer bay. Bruce could eject over the inner bay and be safe.

Why the fark is there a countdown timer on the fusion core?>

Countdown to instability, not necessarily detonation.

Isn't making Wayne manner into an orphanage a risky proposition? What if a child finds the Batcave? I would hate to see an eight-year-old get a hold of all those bat-weapons.

Only if a kid gets into that particular room, and hits that particular sequence of notes on the piano. I'm dubious that this would happen accidentally. Plus, Robin could probably seal the door from the other side.

Why does Bruce Wayne go off and live with a serial criminal who we have seen murder several people and steal many things and betray many many more people? I know it's Anne Hathaway, but seriously?

She wanted to start clean and demonstrated that by saving him.

Why if Alfred is so concerned about Bruce being killed, does he leave making Bruce more vulnerable and likely to be killed?

It's the only thing Alfred can do to try to convince him to give up being Batman.

Why, if Batman ceased being Batman eight years ago is Bruce so badly injured? It seems like he only ever had two major fights in his life. First he dealt with the scarecrow then he dealt with the Joker. Hardly enough to completely ruin a man's body. At least in this comic book world. That kind of damage would be accumulated from a lifetime of doing this sort of thing. Not doing it for two years and then giving it up.

I don't think that he only had 2 major fights. He fought for multiple years between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. I don't recall it being stated in TDK how much time had passed, but it seemed to me it took more than 2 years. Also, after Batman kills Harvey, he is seen limping away, which is where he damaged his knee.

Why did driving over the bridge kill talia immediately but leave 60-year-old already injured recently hospitalized Commissioner Gordon alive?

Probably more to do with the multiple artillery shots into the cabin than the 15 foot drop, but yeah, Gordon should have been more banged up.

Why did Batman blowup the top of that skyscraper simply to clear it when he's in a vertical takeoff and landing vehicle? Most citizens of gotham we're still holed up in their homes at the time of him leaving, therefore he may have killed hundreds of people simply because he had to stop and kiss Catwoman before taking off. What a jerk.

He needed to gain linear velocity, not altitude. Taking the time to go around the building would put the whole city at risk. Perhaps the buildings around that area aren't residential, and it doesn't seem likely that too many businesses would be in operation.
 
2012-07-31 11:30:10 AM  
Farking italic tags x 2...
 
2012-07-31 11:30:21 AM  
My biggest gripes with the movie are the magic healing leg (he has no ligaments remaining in his knee according to the doctor), the time warp stock exchange, and scarecrow being the judge, the good guys knowing the exact second the bomb will go off (did Fox just start a stopwatch when the scientist activated it? Cause there's absolutely no reason Talia would give them accurate information regarding the bomb, hence her sabotaging the truck marking, which frankly, Gordon should have had done already with 5 months of free time), and bruce getting from the pit to gotham
 
2012-07-31 11:32:51 AM  
Oh, and the bat seemingly surviving a nuclear blast, which means that the whole autopilot nonsense was unnecessary. And the fact that Bane knew where the secret super awesome batstash was, but couldn't find the Bat covered by a tarp in 5 months.
 
2012-07-31 11:34:02 AM  

Slaxl: Why do people take things so seriously? I mean, a film is ruined because of a timer on a countdown core? Some things are obviously put in for our, the viewers, benefit. That's just a fact of cinema. Deal the fark with it. Jeez.

I thought it was a great film but I still left the cinema with things to raise against it, but I won't let a few minor quibbles get in the way of my enjoyment. The article and this thread serve as a testament to the fact that most of you weren't paying attention to the film and then complained about bits you missed. The whole throwing the rope down into the prison bit is a prime example. It was farking obviously clear in the film he dropped the rope back in, if you missed it you weren't paying attention. A guy I watched the film with asked how Batman got over a broken back in a couple of days... Not paying attention can ruin a film.

A few gripes I had with the film were the fact that I think firstly a little more effort could have been used to distinguish Gotham from New York City, Batman could have done less driving and flying with crappy batmobiles, batbikes and batcopters, and more fighting. Probably unpopular but I think there hasn't been a decent batmobile since the Adam We 60s batman. It was a cool looking vehicle to get him to a fight. That's all it needs to be.

Also the film was very light, when Gotham should be a very dark place. I don't know if this was a deliberate directional choice to illustrate something about the lifting of crime from the city, but I like the dark Gotham.

Perhaps I should disclaim that I never read the comic books, I've seen a few, my brother likes them, but I think they're crap. I also never really like superhero films until Batman Begins. I'm sure I'm looking at these films, and Batman himself, in a completely different way than the die hard fans from comic book era, but ultimately I think some let themselves fall into hating the film for too trivial reasons.

It's not like some guy in a cave and some cable fashioned a suit that superheated the cable with plasma or something from a small nuclear device which allowed him to jump onto an F1 track and cut some cars in half.


My impression of the look of Gotham was that Nolan had a 'fark it, it's New York' attitude this time around. He shows the WTC and the Empire State Building. The stock exchange is on Wall Street. All the street signs are NY. Hell, they pan past Sack's 5th Avenue.

I think he did it to make the visual connection to 9/11 and the whole Bane/ occupy wall street connection stronger.

IMHO that Gotham=New York thing made the movie. I think Nolan nailed the 2012 anxieties. The move had tons of flaws, but it strikes me that it's going to become one of those incredibly ambitious films that only grows in stature with time.

/Why in the hell Bane's henchmen listen to Catwoman's orders in one of the later scene's I'll never know.
 
2012-07-31 11:39:15 AM  

Mentalpatient87: mgshamster: Well, remember, Bane wanted the people of Gotham to feel like they had a chance of surviving. It would make sense to include the police in that. His whole plan involved making people build up their hope, and then at the last second, destroy them while he watches that look of determination turn into horror.

Thank you.. It wasn't like he had a whole speech on that matter, or anything.


So how does having the whole police department trapped underground (and let's not go into the logistics of sending the entire police department into the sewers at the exact moment they needed to be there) while criminals execute citizens exactly inspire hope that they have a chance of surviving?
 
2012-07-31 11:42:09 AM  

hammer85: Oh, and the bat seemingly surviving a nuclear blast, which means that the whole autopilot nonsense was unnecessary. And the fact that Bane knew where the secret super awesome batstash was, but couldn't find the Bat covered by a tarp in 5 months.


It was a good thing Wayne fixed that autopilot six months ago though, because that would've been really inconvienent.
 
2012-07-31 11:43:09 AM  

SpoilerAlert: Funbags: Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?

I was told in another thread yesterday it was because there were no Home Depots down there.


I see. So in other words, there was no reason.
 
2012-07-31 11:48:17 AM  
My theory is that Dr. House is the Batman:
(warning, House S8 & TDKR spoilers ahead, doesn't hurt to warn people)

- Wayne lives like a recluse for 8 years and House lasted 8 seasons
- They both need a cane (different leg, though)
- Same ending, fake death and clues left for their friends to find out
- final countdown: Wilson has 5 months to live and the bomb is set to blow up after the same amount of time
- both are succeeded to by a younger guy, John Blake/Robert Chase. You might also want to check out who John Chase was and his relation with terms such as 'Colorado' and 'Massacre' while Robert Blake was also the name of a Lovecraft character in 'The haunter of the dark' (ok, that one's far fetched)
- both are considered weak for relying to much on artificial strenght (technology/vicodin)
- both get out of jail earlier than they were supposed to

Call me whacky but goddammit the endings were so similar I half expected Bruce and Alfred to leave Florence on motorbikes with 'Enjoy Yourself' playing, credits.
That would had been awesome.
 
2012-07-31 11:54:18 AM  

SpoilerAlert: Mentalpatient87: mgshamster: Well, remember, Bane wanted the people of Gotham to feel like they had a chance of surviving. It would make sense to include the police in that. His whole plan involved making people build up their hope, and then at the last second, destroy them while he watches that look of determination turn into horror.

Thank you.. It wasn't like he had a whole speech on that matter, or anything.

So how does having the whole police department trapped underground (and let's not go into the logistics of sending the entire police department into the sewers at the exact moment they needed to be there) while criminals execute citizens exactly inspire hope that they have a chance of surviving?


I didn't say it was a good plan, just that it was his plan.
 
2012-07-31 11:57:58 AM  

hammer85: Oh, and the bat seemingly surviving a nuclear blast, which means that the whole autopilot nonsense was unnecessary. And the fact that Bane knew where the secret super awesome batstash was, but couldn't find the Bat covered by a tarp in 5 months.


There wasn't just one Bat, apparently.

Bane didn't know about the Bat, thus wasn't looking for it.
 
2012-07-31 11:58:37 AM  

Funbags: SpoilerAlert: Funbags: Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?

I was told in another thread yesterday it was because there were no Home Depots down there.

I see. So in other words, there was no reason.


Does it really have to be spelled out? There were not available materials to make a bridge in the hole.

A better question would be why not just keep climbing the wall straight up from that first ledge? Do the hand/footholds that carried you halfway up just stop at the Leap of Faith?
 
2012-07-31 11:59:15 AM  

SpoilerAlert: hammer85: Oh, and the bat seemingly surviving a nuclear blast, which means that the whole autopilot nonsense was unnecessary. And the fact that Bane knew where the secret super awesome batstash was, but couldn't find the Bat covered by a tarp in 5 months.

It was a good thing Wayne fixed that autopilot six months ago though, because that would've been really inconvienent.


I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. If the plane can survive a nuke, or was able to fly away from the blast in time, then the autopilot was unnecessary and Bruce would have survived the explosion.

/the autopilot was fixed 6 months ago
//he made it
///yea, and it's pretty impressive that this thing looks like new after being in the epicenter of a 6 mile nuclear blast, with the exposed fan and alien ship from HL2 look and everything
 
2012-07-31 12:05:49 PM  

hammer85: SpoilerAlert: hammer85: Oh, and the bat seemingly surviving a nuclear blast, which means that the whole autopilot nonsense was unnecessary. And the fact that Bane knew where the secret super awesome batstash was, but couldn't find the Bat covered by a tarp in 5 months.

It was a good thing Wayne fixed that autopilot six months ago though, because that would've been really inconvienent.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. If the plane can survive a nuke, or was able to fly away from the blast in time, then the autopilot was unnecessary and Bruce would have survived the explosion.

/the autopilot was fixed 6 months ago
//he made it
///yea, and it's pretty impressive that this thing looks like new after being in the epicenter of a 6 mile nuclear blast, with the exposed fan and alien ship from HL2 look and everything


Are y'all talking about the Bat at the end of the movie with Lucius and the scientists talking about the fixed auto-pilot? That was a different Bat (different color and everything). Bruce fixed the glitch and implemented in all of the Bats, 6 months before the explosion.
 
2012-07-31 12:13:41 PM  
But if there was more than one bat, why didn't bane use them? He had access to all of the hidden Bat gear from the armory raid where the Bats would have been stored.
 
2012-07-31 12:14:27 PM  

hammer85: My biggest gripes with the movie are the magic healing leg (he has no ligaments remaining in his knee according to the doctor), the time warp stock exchange, and scarecrow being the judge, the good guys knowing the exact second the bomb will go off (did Fox just start a stopwatch when the scientist activated it? Cause there's absolutely no reason Talia would give them accurate information regarding the bomb, hence her sabotaging the truck marking, which frankly, Gordon should have had done already with 5 months of free time), and bruce getting from the pit to gotham


You don't remember the hydraulic leg brace he got? Also I loved Scarecrow as judge. Different strokes. As far as Bruce getting from the pit to Gotham....he abandoned his fortune and traveled the world once before. He also has performed missions overseas and is a globe-trotter in his civilian identity. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't have a few safehouses or secret bank accounts scattered about the globe. Hell he probably had a certain rock he could go to when he got out of the pit that had a briefcase with a suit and passport in it. He's the goddamn Batman after all.
/Death.......by exile.
 
2012-07-31 12:18:50 PM  
The leg brace disappears halfway through the movie (it's completely missing when he bones talia and he walks around the house like nothing happened).

I'm fine with Bruce getting to Gotham, it's the speed at which he does it that I find to be the issue. He spent years traveling the world, yet manages to get from the "ancient world" to civilization with armed guards at every entrence in a matter of hours.
 
2012-07-31 12:24:02 PM  

hammer85: The leg brace disappears halfway through the movie (it's completely missing when he bones talia and he walks around the house like nothing happened).

I'm fine with Bruce getting to Gotham, it's the speed at which he does it that I find to be the issue. He spent years traveling the world, yet manages to get from the "ancient world" to civilization with armed guards at every entrence in a matter of hours.


I assumed he incorporated the brace into the Batman suit. That's when he'd really need it. I'm not sure of how long it took him to actually get back. I'd assume it would have to be a week or less rather than hours. Maybe the pit time wasn't in real time with what was happening in Gotham (a bit in the past) so it could show his recovery process to the viewer.
 
2012-07-31 12:25:50 PM  

hammer85: The leg brace disappears halfway through the movie (it's completely missing when he bones talia and he walks around the house like nothing happened).

I'm fine with Bruce getting to Gotham, it's the speed at which he does it that I find to be the issue. He spent years traveling the world, yet manages to get from the "ancient world" to civilization with armed guards at every entrence in a matter of hours.


Huh. I just assumed it was a few days later. Did I miss something?
 
2012-07-31 12:29:27 PM  

mgshamster: hammer85: The leg brace disappears halfway through the movie (it's completely missing when he bones talia and he walks around the house like nothing happened).

I'm fine with Bruce getting to Gotham, it's the speed at which he does it that I find to be the issue. He spent years traveling the world, yet manages to get from the "ancient world" to civilization with armed guards at every entrence in a matter of hours.

Huh. I just assumed it was a few days later. Did I miss something?


Yea I could've sworn I remember hearing one of the good guys in Gotham saying it had like 2 weeks (maybe a month) until detonation, then it cuts to Bruce and him finally escaping. They didn't teleport Batman all the way to Gotham, he arrived with less than a day left.
 
2012-07-31 12:30:22 PM  

hammer85: The leg brace disappears halfway through the movie (it's completely missing when he bones talia and he walks around the house like nothing happened).

I'm fine with Bruce getting to Gotham, it's the speed at which he does it that I find to be the issue. He spent years traveling the world, yet manages to get from the "ancient world" to civilization with armed guards at every entrence in a matter of hours.


The timescale of all those scenes are a bit funky. I assumed it was weeks in between each seen we saw in the prison. The score just made it seem as though it was rushing along. Wasn't that whole time period like 3 months? Could it have been a whole week in between him escaping and landing in Gotham?
 
2012-07-31 12:31:45 PM  

slayer199: scottydoesntknow: How Does Bruce Wayne Get Back to Gotham With No Resources?

He's the f***ing Batman. Seriously, if any fictional character could pull this one off, it's the f***ing Batman. Stop whining.

Ok, this one made me laugh.

My girlfriend and I discussed this at length (as well as some of the others). The dude lived off the grid for 7 years in his youth. If anything, Bruce Wayne is resourceful. He was broke...but he really wasn't broke. He was also very rich. What do the very rich like to do with their money? Put it in offshore accounts. It's more than likely that he had stashed millions in offshore accounts only known to him (which also explains the ending in more ways than one).

As for boning Miranda Tate...hell yes he would have. I don't know how anyone could say he wouldn't have. He was broke, alone, and isolated....he probably would have boned someone a lot less hot and rich if they were available.

As for the stock exchange business. That would eventually be overturned but by the time order was restored to Gotham, Bruce Wayne was dead.


THIS!

Quite possibly the most logical explanation to date of the events in the movie, and the same conclusions I came to almost immediately.
 
2012-07-31 12:31:47 PM  

Mentalpatient87: Funbags: SpoilerAlert: Funbags: Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?

I was told in another thread yesterday it was because there were no Home Depots down there.

I see. So in other words, there was no reason.

Does it really have to be spelled out? There were not available materials to make a bridge in the hole.

A better question would be why not just keep climbing the wall straight up from that first ledge? Do the hand/footholds that carried you halfway up just stop at the Leap of Faith?


From what I recall of the various shots of that ledge, I think that, yes, there were no handhold near the upper part of the pit. The walls looked much smoother up there.

And no materials? Assuming there was literally NOTHING ELSE DOWN THERE that wasn't shown on camera, at the very least, they had beds, and massive lengths of rope. How clever do you have to be to lash together some bedframes and at least make that ~15' jump something more manageable?
 
2012-07-31 12:36:03 PM  
FTA: "Batman Totally Heals Too Quickly For a Real World Back Injury"

I forget how long it actually was in the movie? 5 months or so? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyways, a nurse in my hospital experienced a horrific back injury(it was broken) while skiing two winters ago a few days after Christmas. She was back working like normal by early July.
 
2012-07-31 12:44:53 PM  
Wow. What a horrible, butthurt article.
 
2012-07-31 12:45:07 PM  

scottydoesntknow: rtaylor92: My only two real "wtf" moments were Gordon surviving in the back of that truck when it crashed and in the second fight, Bane punching through concrete pillars during their second fight. I can pretty much overlook everything else but those two things, for whatever reason, really bothered me.

Hey I was wondering how Gordon survived all that radiation exposure.

I chalked Bane's punching power up to a combination of pain and adrenaline. He just had his mask punctured/broken by Batman, so the pain he was experiencing would be immeasurable. Add in the adrenaline from the pain and the massive fight, and it's not entirely unbelievable he could knock some plaster off a pillar. It wasn't like he punched straight through them.


I didn't mind the breaking of the concrete so much as him being unharmed. You can be all jacked up on adrenaline and I can pretend that it gave him the strength to break concrete but it should have totally destroyed both of his hands and wrists. When he did it, I thought for a split second that it was going to be what turned the fight, Bane was going to look down at his now mangled hands and be pretty much defenseless.

and I hadn't really thought about the radiation angle but it makes sense. I just thought that with the driver and passenger both being killed, surely the guy bouncing around in the back of a metal box would at least be severely concussed and unconscious.
 
2012-07-31 12:50:17 PM  

rtaylor92: scottydoesntknow: rtaylor92: My only two real "wtf" moments were Gordon surviving in the back of that truck when it crashed and in the second fight, Bane punching through concrete pillars during their second fight. I can pretty much overlook everything else but those two things, for whatever reason, really bothered me.

Hey I was wondering how Gordon survived all that radiation exposure.

I chalked Bane's punching power up to a combination of pain and adrenaline. He just had his mask punctured/broken by Batman, so the pain he was experiencing would be immeasurable. Add in the adrenaline from the pain and the massive fight, and it's not entirely unbelievable he could knock some plaster off a pillar. It wasn't like he punched straight through them.

I didn't mind the breaking of the concrete so much as him being unharmed. You can be all jacked up on adrenaline and I can pretend that it gave him the strength to break concrete but it should have totally destroyed both of his hands and wrists. When he did it, I thought for a split second that it was going to be what turned the fight, Bane was going to look down at his now mangled hands and be pretty much defenseless.

and I hadn't really thought about the radiation angle but it makes sense. I just thought that with the driver and passenger both being killed, surely the guy bouncing around in the back of a metal box would at least be severely concussed and unconscious.


Eh. Gotham's an old decaying city. With all the corruption going on, it wouldn't surprise me if corrupt contractors pulled some shenanigans and used sub-par materials and paying off inspectors to get those supports to code.
 
2012-07-31 01:03:53 PM  
I, too, had serious issues with this movie.

1. Gotham City. This place doesn't exist and never has. It's a lie.

2. Commissioner Gordon, Bruce Wayne, and Alfred: These men look suspiciously like Gary Oldman, Christian Bale, and Micahel Kane. I don't think we actually were watching Batman at all, but some guy pretending to be him.

3. Bane's mask. I've been around many a hospital in my day and never have I seen a device that looks remotely similar to that.

4. How many hours are in a day? I swear, that movie claimed months had passed from the moment I sat down to the moment I left, but my watch said only about 2 hours had elapsed.

So yeah, big f*cking fail for that one.
 
2012-07-31 01:10:59 PM  

rtaylor92: I didn't mind the breaking of the concrete so much as him being unharmed. You can be all jacked up on adrenaline and I can pretend that it gave him the strength to break concrete but it should have totally destroyed both of his hands and wrists. When he did it, I thought for a split second that it was going to be what turned the fight, Bane was going to look down at his now mangled hands and be pretty much defenseless.


You're also talking about a man who uses his forehead like it's a steel bowling ball and doesn't shed a drop of blood. Bane's only weakness had to be his mask, it couldn't be his hands or anything else. He was stronger, faster, and smarter than Batman. But when Batman started targetting that mask, Bane knew he was in trouble.
 
2012-07-31 01:11:27 PM  
The script really obviously needed another once-over with a pen, white-out, and maybe a flamethrower.

At least it gave us the cops-versus-thugs fight scene, which provided Razzie-level unintentional comedy. I liked that part.
 
2012-07-31 01:12:48 PM  

ODDwhun: So in a trilogy that is supposed to be "realistic" we're supposed to accept this just cuz? I willing to believe more advance tech, but not more advanced healing, especially when it comes at the end of a rope.


I think people too often confuse "realistic" with "tone." They're a darker set of films in the superhero universe, but they're certainly not realistic by any means.
 
2012-07-31 01:14:41 PM  

fallingcow: At least it gave us the cops-versus-thugs fight scene, which provided Razzie-level unintentional comedy. I liked that part.


Yeah, it was like Braveheart without the weapons.
 
2012-07-31 01:20:46 PM  

thecpt: hammer85: The leg brace disappears halfway through the movie (it's completely missing when he bones talia and he walks around the house like nothing happened).

I'm fine with Bruce getting to Gotham, it's the speed at which he does it that I find to be the issue. He spent years traveling the world, yet manages to get from the "ancient world" to civilization with armed guards at every entrence in a matter of hours.

The timescale of all those scenes are a bit funky. I assumed it was weeks in between each seen we saw in the prison. The score just made it seem as though it was rushing along. Wasn't that whole time period like 3 months? Could it have been a whole week in between him escaping and landing in Gotham?


I'm willing to yield that. I don't remember every bit of the movie, and I thought prior to the escape scene they mentioned being around a day or two remaining (hence the "we need to mark these damn trucks now and tell the police we're busting them out soon" scenes with blake/gordon. Batman arrives with something around 11-12 hours remaining (I think he says 11 in his scene with Catwoman), hence the confusion in just the speed to get there from a remote part of the world (not just having the means to do it). Factor in the setting the giant fire batsignal and it seemed like he became the flash momentarily. It's possible there was more time remaining, but that would require a second viewing when my wife returns from Colombia to make sure.
 
2012-07-31 01:30:39 PM  

BafflerMeal: My biggest quibble was the story was basically driven that the lie of Dent's death was what broke Wayne and Gordon. In the real world environment Nolan created, I think they'd both be ok with that lie.


I thought the whole reasoning behind using Dent's death to pass some unconstitutional legislation that magically worked was kind of flimsy. The entire premise of batman's disappearance is built around that so the films starts off on shaky ground.

/still enjoyed it.
 
2012-07-31 01:56:02 PM  

Madbassist1: farkityfarker: They forgot "Why would anyone go see a movie about a man who dresses up in a silly bat costume to fight crime?"

Why would anyone post in a thread about a movie they disdain?

/the answers are similar, I'd wager.


Some people like to be the bane of our existence.
 
2012-07-31 02:07:49 PM  

Madbassist1: farkityfarker: They forgot "Why would anyone go see a movie about a man who dresses up in a silly bat costume to fight crime?"

Why would anyone post in a thread about a movie they disdain?

/the answers are similar, I'd wager.


Some men just want to watch the world burn.
 
2012-07-31 03:03:36 PM  

Funbags: Was there any particular reason the prisoners in the pit couldn't just haul a couple long planks of wood to bridge the gap of that ledge?


Damn. lol
 
2012-07-31 04:08:08 PM  

Slaxl: There is one huge problem with this film that I'm not sure anyone has addressed. The ending was set up nicely (or scarily) for a future film based on Robin, the boy wonder... I really hope they don't.


Nightwing, not Robin and fark you I want to see it.
 
2012-07-31 05:05:54 PM  

SpoilerAlert: Bane kept sending down food and shaving kits down to the police force that he was going to blow up anyway because he's a nice guy and who cares it's about a movie where a dude dresses up as a bat.


Bane was using an uncomfortable truth as a tactic: Hope is a drug.
He couldn't have held Gotham if millions of people decided to go full tilt zombie mode on him. They'd plow through his blockade like a human wave and trample his army to death.
He let them keep thinking that there was an easy way out, and that hope kept them docile.

Ultimately, the League of Shadows was burning Gotham to make a bigger example to the world. So I would say his few generous actions were also like a last meal to the condemned.

/They also seem to be obsessed with not just wrecking the place, but in the way its wrecked.
/Self consuming violence, specifically.
/They could have explored reason for that further.
 
2012-07-31 05:09:16 PM  

Nayman: Isn't making Wayne manner into an orphanage a risky proposition? What if a child finds the Batcave? I would hate to see an eight-year-old get a hold of all those bat-weapons.


Blake becomes Batman; one of the kids becomes Robin after dicking around on piano and hitting that sequence of notes.
 
2012-07-31 06:16:53 PM  
The scientist specifically said it was a neutron bomb, so there wouldn't be much radiation to worry about in Gotham. Neutron bomb=much less radiation.
 
2012-07-31 06:32:05 PM  
what did he do with the batpod when he flew off in the batwing ...

did it fit in the back,... did he leave it,,,,,did alfred come back for it ...

woulda been great if Foley was like "Why didn't somebody tell me that he had one of those... things?"

and then shot Tracey Walter
 
2012-07-31 09:29:52 PM  

Hebalo: This was Nolan's take on The Dark Knight Returns, with a touch of Knightfall mixed in.


Also, No Man's Land. I loved the little Bat gang signs Catwoman and the police were putting up everywhere.

TeamEd: Hell, they pan past Sack's 5th Avenue.


Heh, I hadn't realized that was a NYC thing. I figured they just showed it off because it had been in Pittsburgh for sixty years.
 
2012-07-31 10:24:04 PM  
Two words:

BELAY ON!
 
2012-08-01 12:16:14 AM  
They show Wayne damaging the brick wall with his Batsuit leg brace but it never occurs to him to use his Bionic Superkick against Bane.

What the hell was the deal with Bane channeling Sybock on Daggert and then never referencing it again?

I get Bane, Talia, and obviously Blake figuring it out but by the end of the film every named character was either dead, knew Wayne's secret, or both.
 
2012-08-01 03:26:09 AM  
Many of the plot holes existed because they had to exist. This was a Generic Summer Action Flick.

We need to show Batman overcoming adversity and growing as a character. So, uh, have him learn to walk again, and then a bang hot chick! That'll do!

A big fight scene between cops and thugs would be cool. We should do it at the climax, while the hero and villain duke it out mano-a-mano! So uh, put the all the cops underground or something until the end.

And we need lots of twists... A couple "surprise" comebacks from characters thought to have left. Have the hot chick he boned turn out to be his enemy, no one will ever see that coming! Oh, oh, I know! Let's pretend to kill Batman, so that the audience will cheer with we reveal that he isn't dead three minutes later!

And we need a cool flying thing! And missiles!

AN ATOM BOMB WITH THE TICKING CLOCK!

Oh, and give that guy who played Scarecrow another bit part.


It just seemed so damned generic compared to the first two. In those, Batman first overcame fear, and then he overcame chaos. Here, he overcame "bad-guys with a big bomb." Groundbreaking stuff.

I guess they wanted to end the trilogy with "cool kersplody summer flick that will sell toys."
 
2012-08-01 06:34:27 AM  

sendtodave: I guess they wanted to end the trilogy with "cool kersplody summer flick that will sell toys."


Seemed more like Nolan wanted to make a moving comic book. He succeeded. The "cool kersplody summer flick that will sell toys" was made in 1989.
 
2012-08-01 11:15:55 AM  

sendtodave: It just seemed so damned generic compared to the first two. In those, Batman first overcame fear, and then he overcame chaos. Here, he overcame "bad-guys with a big bomb."


Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.
 
2012-08-02 01:02:24 AM  

GreenAdder: sendtodave: It just seemed so damned generic compared to the first two. In those, Batman first overcame fear, and then he overcame chaos. Here, he overcame "bad-guys with a big bomb."

Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.


That line echoed in my head when I was watching TDKR and it damn near ruined the film for me. :)
 
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