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(Westword)   Coloradoan decides to test the state's open-carry firearm law, apparently not realizing the law does not allow carrying in an establishment where liquor is served. Yes, it's a theatre   (blogs.westword.com) divider line 331
    More: Dumbass, James Mapes, firearms, establishments, Thornton Police Department  
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9781 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2012 at 2:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-30 04:47:37 PM  

Rostin: PsyLord: IIRC, Nightline did a little simulation shortly after the VTech shooting where they gave a few students in a classroom a paint pellet gun and told them that someone was going to come in and start blasting. Even with the warning, the students ended up either not getting a shot off before being shot themselves or shooting innocent students that got in their line of sight.

Some students have to walk to and from their cars or apartments late at night.

Also, I as a graduate student have spent probably less than 1% of my academic tenure in a classroom. The same is true of most professors and staff members. Unless some student I've formerly TAed decides he hates my guts, or a crazy person randomly decides to start his rampage with the occupants of my office, I think I'm going to have quite a bit of advanced warning that mischief is afoot.

An active shooter suddenly bursting into a classroom (and shooting specifically at the armed person, to boot) is only one scenario. Even if we generously grant that the Nightline simulation proved that concealed carry wouldn't help one classroom full of students, that is really all it proved.


What if the armed student was in a classroom down the hall? Students and teachers had time to try and barricade doors and hide under desks, but someone that's armed wouldn't have time to draw a weapon and ready themselves? It's not a guarantee of course, but that 'simulation' they did was crap. They act like everyone was instantly killed and had zero time to act the very moment he began shooting, as if he set off a bomb or something.
 
2012-07-30 04:47:52 PM  

TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: justtray: redmid17: justtray: Bringing rambo wanna be gun nuts is "Trolling" in gun threads.

Notice how they don't add any substance. Just, "yep you're right, but I'm gonna call you a troll to look less stupid."

You're 100% wrong in this case, like you have been in pretty much every thread.

I guess I'll have to bow to your intellectual supriority. You showed me. All I have on my side is a mountain of facts and logic. Pretty easy to refute with hyperbole and citations of gun on gun violence in convenience stores right? Not like I have aggregate stats of countries that banned guns and subsequent gun crime going to zero. Just totally ignore that. Or better yet, misrepresent it, because the facts all all on one side.

Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.

What exactly is it about your apparently larger penis that deters crime?


It makes me not feel inadeqate to every other human being. It's this rock I carry around that deters crime, duh. Just like your gun.
 
2012-07-30 04:48:32 PM  
Poor little baby. It must be hard being so scared of the entire world like that. I hope he packed his Depends in case he soils himself after hearing a loud noise.
 
2012-07-30 04:49:54 PM  

LandOfChocolate: Why bother with open carry? Unless you're in law enforcement, you look like a complete tool.


You also look like someone you shouldnt try and steal from.
 
2012-07-30 04:50:15 PM  

LaraAmber: Well I have a clitoris, I guess that's a tiny penis.


Pics or it didn't happen, thread useless without pictures, fare thee well, etc.
 
2012-07-30 04:50:51 PM  

justtray: TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: justtray: redmid17: justtray: Bringing rambo wanna be gun nuts is "Trolling" in gun threads.

Notice how they don't add any substance. Just, "yep you're right, but I'm gonna call you a troll to look less stupid."

You're 100% wrong in this case, like you have been in pretty much every thread.

I guess I'll have to bow to your intellectual supriority. You showed me. All I have on my side is a mountain of facts and logic. Pretty easy to refute with hyperbole and citations of gun on gun violence in convenience stores right? Not like I have aggregate stats of countries that banned guns and subsequent gun crime going to zero. Just totally ignore that. Or better yet, misrepresent it, because the facts all all on one side.

Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.

What exactly is it about your apparently larger penis that deters crime?

It makes me not feel inadeqate to every other human being. It's this rock I carry around that deters crime, duh. Just like your gun.


My firearm does not deter crime. Having a concealed firearm does not make me less likely to be a victim of a violent crime. It gives me a means in which to STOP crime when I whip it out, unlike your baby-dick.
 
2012-07-30 04:50:52 PM  

justtray: redmid17: justtray: Bringing rambo wanna be gun nuts is "Trolling" in gun threads.

Notice how they don't add any substance. Just, "yep you're right, but I'm gonna call you a troll to look less stupid."

You're 100% wrong in this case, like you have been in pretty much every thread.

I guess I'll have to bow to your intellectual supriority. You showed me. All I have on my side is a mountain of facts and logic. Pretty easy to refute with hyperbole and citations of gun on gun violence in convenience stores right? Not like I have aggregate stats of countries that banned guns and subsequent gun crime going to zero. Just totally ignore that. Or better yet, misrepresent it, because the facts all all on one side.

Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.


I don't carry a gun. I don't even own a handgun. I only use my guns for skeet/trap shooting and hunting. If I had to use them for self-defense, I would not hesitate, but that's not their primary function in my household. Statistics can really only paint a partial picture for a number of reasons. There are counter examples for your countries that have banned firearms and have low crime rate. Mexico has extremely stringent firearm laws but they suffer far more firearms deaths per capita than we do. There are also other countries with high firearm ownership rates with less violent crime. The biggest issue with gun violence is the war on drugs and our 3rd world neighbor to the south. Yes some of those guns come from the US (via straw purchases or theft) but most of those guns come directly from the Mexican military or stores of old soviet-era hardware that people are kicking around.

Mostly you just constantly have factual errors in your posts. It's kind of annoying.
 
2012-07-30 04:51:51 PM  

justtray: I guess I'll have to bow to your intellectual supriority. You showed me. All I have on my side is a mountain of facts and logic. Pretty easy to refute with hyperbole and citations of gun on gun violence in convenience stores right? Not like I have aggregate stats of countries that banned guns and subsequent gun crime going to zero. Just totally ignore that. Or better yet, misrepresent it, because the facts all all on one side.

Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.


Hey, I finally found this guys Fark handle:
i939.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-30 04:52:38 PM  

ddelorm: joonyer: justtray: ...

Now who's trollin?

Dangit, I bit, didn't I?


So did I. Shame on me for attempting a rational, reasonable debate. Should have known better.
 
2012-07-30 04:54:11 PM  

TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: Whiskey Dickens: TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: Whiskey Dickens: I used to argue with Americans that adding guns to the situation only made it easier to have shootings, but now I'm a little more zen about it. You guys should have all of the guns your heart desires! It's a self-correcting problem.
Gun-toting Soccer Mom shot dead
You do realize that she WASN'T the one who did the shooting. She was the victim.
That's the point, Professor. Live by the gun, die by the gun.
So you blame all the Aurora victims for getting themselves shot?


I wasn't blaming anything on the Aurora victims, but if they're guilty of something, it's allowing the gun owners such say in lawmaking that there are now 275 million guns legally owned in America.
This translates to 90 guns per 100 citizens, and many more rampages to come. :(
 
2012-07-30 04:54:16 PM  

redmid17: justtray: redmid17: justtray: Bringing rambo wanna be gun nuts is "Trolling" in gun threads.

Notice how they don't add any substance. Just, "yep you're right, but I'm gonna call you a troll to look less stupid."

You're 100% wrong in this case, like you have been in pretty much every thread.

I guess I'll have to bow to your intellectual supriority. You showed me. All I have on my side is a mountain of facts and logic. Pretty easy to refute with hyperbole and citations of gun on gun violence in convenience stores right? Not like I have aggregate stats of countries that banned guns and subsequent gun crime going to zero. Just totally ignore that. Or better yet, misrepresent it, because the facts all all on one side.

Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.

I don't carry a gun. I don't even own a handgun. I only use my guns for skeet/trap shooting and hunting. If I had to use them for self-defense, I would not hesitate, but that's not their primary function in my household. Statistics can really only paint a partial picture for a number of reasons. There are counter examples for your countries that have banned firearms and have low crime rate. Mexico has extremely stringent firearm laws but they suffer far more firearms deaths per capita than we do. There are also other countries with high firearm ownership rates with less violent crime. The biggest issue with gun violence is the war on drugs and our 3rd world neighbor to the south. Yes some of those guns come from the US (via straw purchases or theft) but most of those guns come directly from the Mexican military or stores of old soviet-era hardware that people are kicking around.

Mostly you just constantly have factual errors in your posts. It's kind of annoying.


Which factual errors specifically? Since I know you don't have any valid points, I didn't read anything but the last line.

Since none of you have any valid points, that's why I'm selectively responding. Then again it's a gun thread. There will be no logical discussion. Just me telling you the truth, and you dismissing it and calling me a troll.
 
2012-07-30 04:54:19 PM  

joonyer: ddelorm: joonyer: justtray: ...

Now who's trollin?

Dangit, I bit, didn't I?

So did I. Shame on me for attempting a rational, reasonable debate. Should have known better.


I have to remember to check the profile, THEN reply.
 
2012-07-30 04:54:51 PM  

joonyer: ddelorm: joonyer: justtray: ...

Now who's trollin?

Dangit, I bit, didn't I?

So did I. Shame on me for attempting a rational, reasonable debate. Should have known better.


Discernment between a "troll" who is engaging in intentionally dishonest and irrational statements to incite emotion and an actual advocate of civilian disarmament is difficult and, sometimes, impossible.
 
2012-07-30 04:55:06 PM  

cgremlin: redmid17: Some types of handgun cartridges legal for deer hunting include .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .35 Remington and .357 Herrett

I am disappoint that the .500 S&W isn't on that list.


That's only some of the cartridges. The .500 S & W is legal to hunt deer with. I'm not sure I'd want to do with that much recoil, but to each their own.
 
2012-07-30 04:56:28 PM  

Whiskey Dickens: TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: Whiskey Dickens: I used to argue with Americans that adding guns to the situation only made it easier to have shootings, but now I'm a little more zen about it. You guys should have all of the guns your heart desires! It's a self-correcting problem.
Gun-toting Soccer Mom shot dead

You do realize that she WASN'T the one who did the shooting. She was the victim.

That's the point, Professor. Live by the gun, die by the gun.


She was killed by her husband, someone she trusted and who could have probably killed her at any time, by any means, because they lived together as most couples do. He was also a parole officer (I think he worked as a correctional officer too before that, if memory serves).
 
2012-07-30 04:57:31 PM  
"It wasn't really a political statement," Mapes says. "I just went to see a movie. But it's a political statement
....He declines to provide the full slogan on the shirt, which starts with the word "LIBERALISM," but insists that his attire wasn't politically calculated, either.


Riiigghhht.

Mapes acknowledges. "The only thing I could have done is untuck my T-shirt," he says. "But it's the size of a brick, so obviously you're going to see it. But then somebody calls the police because they're all paranoid about what happened."

YOU DON'T SAY!

a Thornton ordinance targets individuals who display a dangerous weapon (the list even includes air guns and slingshots) "in a manner calculated to alarm another person." And there's no question that Mapes's presence at the theater wearing a gun in plain sight did just that. According to Barnes, seventeen officers responded to the call "in light of recent events," evacuating nine theaters and dealing with a number of panicky patrons -- some of whom returned to the venue after police took Mapes into custody.

These are the goddam peckerwoods who get planes evacuated and flights canceled because they mistake some Hindu guy for a Ay-rab.

F*ck this guy, I hope he goes to jail for sheer bloviating showboating idiocy.

/gun-owner, supporter of concealed and open carry.
 
2012-07-30 04:57:36 PM  

redmid17: cgremlin: redmid17: Some types of handgun cartridges legal for deer hunting include .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .35 Remington and .357 Herrett

I am disappoint that the .500 S&W isn't on that list.

That's only some of the cartridges. The .500 S & W is legal to hunt deer with. I'm not sure I'd want to do with that much recoil, but to each their own.


They are useful for hunting watermelon.
 
2012-07-30 04:58:05 PM  

JesseL: 2. If it's legal and you're not drinking, why would you say it's stupid?


Ok, I'll bite.
CSB.
I worked security in a tittie bar in NM, back in the 70s. Not your ordinary tittie bar, mind you, this one was outside of the city limits. In fact, it was quite outside of the limits of civilization. The girls that worked there were the ones that worked in town. But this is where they worked while they healed up. Whether it be cold sores, pregnancy, broken bones, or worse. They still needed money and still got up on stage and peeled for cash. Only here, there were no rules. They could do things they couldn't get away with on stage in the city. Nothing wrong with a little ping pong ball canyoneering when the shooter has a shiner and visible scabs around the muzzle, but who am I to judge? I'm here to make sure no one gets hurt or killed. I am not waiting for the first customer to come through the door. No I show up when the place is getting filled up. When there are already 2 other guards who have been screening the arrivals. They check them at the door for weapons. I am assured by my boss the other guards are not allowed to bring firearms to this gig. It's a rough crowd, mostly bikers, and wet backs, but all of them are genuine scum. My job is to make sure we intervene in any one breaking the rules. Simple rules. No one comes in with a weapon. No one leaves with a drink. When I arrive, I'm on a chopper. It's a repo, I got on the military base, and no previous owner will be in the crowd. I park it where I can see it. On a concrete pad with spotlights on it just outside of the pool tables and I walk in. I go up to the bar and tell the bar tender to open the safe while I pull a very large 44 magnum out of my shoulder holster, drop the bullets in my shirt pocket and hand the bartender my empty piece to lock up in the safe. I go check on the boys at the door, and this huge ugly dude stops me and says, "Hey man, why did you lock your gun up"? And I say, "I'm not here to kill anyone, man". (I'm only wearing a baton) And I join the guys at the only entrance/ exit. If the bar tender catches my eye from anywhere in the bar, he can look to where I need to be next and I'm there. Never stuck a man one time working that gig, and always got tipped out good. Only time I drew the baton was when a guy absolutely would not put down a bottle of beer and wanted to leave. We tried every rick in the book, we even appealed to his machismo. Hey, man, we know you can finish that and drop the empty in the can before you leave. And he's goading my man on by the door. Telling him he's real tough with the stick and shiat. I'm standing behind the bottle dude, and I tell him "go Ahead, man. But we only pull these sticks when confronted with a guy that is holding a deadly weapon, but then, then, man, we just whip ass until there's nothing but a puddle. So he won't pull that stick until you show a deadly weapon, now put the bottle in the bin. He turns around and yells "FARK YOU, MAN" then turn to the other guard. So I pulled that stick and broke his little bottle and said, "Well, you see, now, man. Now...you're holding a deadly weapon" at which point three other guys came on over and grabbed him and made him drop the bottle before he got really embarrassed by having two rent - a - cops pound on him. His friends, presumably. Anyway. That was then.
You don't need a gun around drunks, unless you like shooting drunks.
End CSB.
 
2012-07-30 04:58:21 PM  

redmid17: That's only some of the cartridges. The .500 S & W is legal to hunt deer with. I'm not sure I'd want to do with that much recoil, but to each their own.


They're really not that bad with the 8 inch barrel or longer. Comparable to a similar length .44 mag N-frame.
 
2012-07-30 04:58:41 PM  

Whiskey Dickens: TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: Whiskey Dickens: TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: Whiskey Dickens: I used to argue with Americans that adding guns to the situation only made it easier to have shootings, but now I'm a little more zen about it. You guys should have all of the guns your heart desires! It's a self-correcting problem.
Gun-toting Soccer Mom shot dead
You do realize that she WASN'T the one who did the shooting. She was the victim.
That's the point, Professor. Live by the gun, die by the gun.
So you blame all the Aurora victims for getting themselves shot?

I wasn't blaming anything on the Aurora victims, but if they're guilty of something, it's allowing the gun owners such say in lawmaking that there are now 275 million guns legally owned in America.
This translates to 90 guns per 100 citizens, and many more rampages to come. :(


So you blame the ones who wrote the second ammendment?

/intentionally sarcastically derpy
 
2012-07-30 04:59:04 PM  

Whiskey Dickens: TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: Whiskey Dickens: TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: Whiskey Dickens: I used to argue with Americans that adding guns to the situation only made it easier to have shootings, but now I'm a little more zen about it. You guys should have all of the guns your heart desires! It's a self-correcting problem.
Gun-toting Soccer Mom shot dead
You do realize that she WASN'T the one who did the shooting. She was the victim.
That's the point, Professor. Live by the gun, die by the gun.
So you blame all the Aurora victims for getting themselves shot?

I wasn't blaming anything on the Aurora victims, but if they're guilty of something, it's allowing the gun owners such say in lawmaking that there are now 275 million guns legally owned in America.
This translates to 90 guns per 100 citizens, and many more rampages to come. :(


So why should James Holmes be charged with murder if it really is the fault of the politicians for allowing guns to be legal? They should have been out campaigning to have guns banned and not been sitting on there fat asses watching a movie, right? If you don't have any sympathy for Melanie Hain being murdered in her own home, why would you give a fark about the Aurora victims?

Guns don't kill people, people who don't make it their personal mission to eradicate every last firearm from the face of the Earth kill people.
 
2012-07-30 05:00:35 PM  

justtray: redmid17: justtray: redmid17: justtray: Bringing rambo wanna be gun nuts is "Trolling" in gun threads.

Notice how they don't add any substance. Just, "yep you're right, but I'm gonna call you a troll to look less stupid."

You're 100% wrong in this case, like you have been in pretty much every thread.

I guess I'll have to bow to your intellectual supriority. You showed me. All I have on my side is a mountain of facts and logic. Pretty easy to refute with hyperbole and citations of gun on gun violence in convenience stores right? Not like I have aggregate stats of countries that banned guns and subsequent gun crime going to zero. Just totally ignore that. Or better yet, misrepresent it, because the facts all all on one side.

Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.

I don't carry a gun. I don't even own a handgun. I only use my guns for skeet/trap shooting and hunting. If I had to use them for self-defense, I would not hesitate, but that's not their primary function in my household. Statistics can really only paint a partial picture for a number of reasons. There are counter examples for your countries that have banned firearms and have low crime rate. Mexico has extremely stringent firearm laws but they suffer far more firearms deaths per capita than we do. There are also other countries with high firearm ownership rates with less violent crime. The biggest issue with gun violence is the war on drugs and our 3rd world neighbor to the south. Yes some of those guns come from the US (via straw purchases or theft) but most of those guns come directly from the Mexican military or stores of old soviet-era hardware that people are kicking around.

Mostly you just constantly have factual errors in your posts. It's kind of annoying.

Which fa ...


Holmes didn't have automatic weapons or full body armor on. He had a tactical vest (aka more pockets) and some bullet-resistant equipment below the waste. Anyone trained to shoot with a pistol or rifle is taught to aim center of mass much like hunters are taught to shoot deer behind the shoulder (at least I was) to hit the vital organs (heart, lungs). I mentioned this already upthread.

Also you completely dismiss the countries like Mexico that have pretty stringent firearm ownership yet even higher rates of gun violence than the US. Most of the countries you have compares us to in the past also don't have 3rd world countries bordering to the south where whole provinces are controlled by militarily equipped drug cartels. Something like 80% of the gun violence in the US is drug or gang related. Take away the drugs and suddenly the gangs can't afford the guns and have little to fight over and the cartels get undermined, lose cash, and can't afford guns.
 
2012-07-30 05:01:01 PM  
Link

Kip Kinkle was the case I was thinking of. A wounded student jumped him when he went to reload.

Sometimes ANY resistance will stop a crime.

Not always, but It's better than laying there, hoping they won't shoot you.
 
2012-07-30 05:03:45 PM  

pyrotek85: Rostin: PsyLord: IIRC, Nightline did a little simulation shortly after the VTech shooting where they gave a few students in a classroom a paint pellet gun and told them that someone was going to come in and start blasting. Even with the warning, the students ended up either not getting a shot off before being shot themselves or shooting innocent students that got in their line of sight.

Some students have to walk to and from their cars or apartments late at night.

Also, I as a graduate student have spent probably less than 1% of my academic tenure in a classroom. The same is true of most professors and staff members. Unless some student I've formerly TAed decides he hates my guts, or a crazy person randomly decides to start his rampage with the occupants of my office, I think I'm going to have quite a bit of advanced warning that mischief is afoot.

An active shooter suddenly bursting into a classroom (and shooting specifically at the armed person, to boot) is only one scenario. Even if we generously grant that the Nightline simulation proved that concealed carry wouldn't help one classroom full of students, that is really all it proved.

What if the armed student was in a classroom down the hall? Students and teachers had time to try and barricade doors and hide under desks, but someone that's armed wouldn't have time to draw a weapon and ready themselves? It's not a guarantee of course, but that 'simulation' they did was crap. They act like everyone was instantly killed and had zero time to act the very moment he began shooting, as if he set off a bomb or something.


A better scenario would have been if the shooter had a specific target, like the person wearing the red shirt to represent the bully or ex-girlfriend that he intended to murder and the armed victim was randomly placed in the room instead of right in the front middle of the class so he couldn't be picked off straight off by the active shooter.

In almost every case I'm sure the armed victim could hit the active shooter and keep him from killing people in another room even if he didn't prevent him from killing a bunch of people.
 
2012-07-30 05:06:18 PM  

vudukungfu: You don't need a gun around drunks, unless you like shooting drunks.
End CSB.


But evidently you do need a nightstick. For those of us who aren't bouncers, carrying that is going to go over worse than carrying a concealed handgun.

In any case, I avoid going anywhere where there are likely to be drunks. There are a number of places I enjoy eating that happen to serve alcohol though. I'm not too concerned about a fight breaking out, but you never know what can happen in places like parking lots and most establishments don't have a safe handy for their customers pieces.
 
2012-07-30 05:07:16 PM  
...and now for something commmpletely different....let's try to guess what led to such cognitive dissonance in the mind of....justtray.

Was it:

A) Eating lead paint chips?
B) Playing with mercury?
C) Fetal Alcohol Syndrome

I'm Chuck Wollery, and we'll be back with the answer in two minutes, two seconds. Stay tuned!
 
2012-07-30 05:07:45 PM  
pyrotek85: What if the armed student was in a classroom down the hall? Students and teachers had time to try and barricade doors and hide under desks, but someone that's armed wouldn't have time to draw a weapon and ready themselves? It's not a guarantee of course, but that 'simulation' they did was crap. They act like everyone was instantly killed and had zero time to act the very moment he began shooting, as if he set off a bomb or something.

I think you're directing that at the wrong person. My point was exactly the same as yours. Even if the Nightline simulation accurately modeled one particular situation, there are lots of other plausible scenarios where the deck wouldn't be stacked so heavily against an armed student.
 
2012-07-30 05:10:11 PM  

justtray: Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.



It's amusing when gun grabbers love talking about cock.
 
2012-07-30 05:10:12 PM  

Rostin: pyrotek85: What if the armed student was in a classroom down the hall? Students and teachers had time to try and barricade doors and hide under desks, but someone that's armed wouldn't have time to draw a weapon and ready themselves? It's not a guarantee of course, but that 'simulation' they did was crap. They act like everyone was instantly killed and had zero time to act the very moment he began shooting, as if he set off a bomb or something.

I think you're directing that at the wrong person. My point was exactly the same as yours. Even if the Nightline simulation accurately modeled one particular situation, there are lots of other plausible scenarios where the deck wouldn't be stacked so heavily against an armed student.


Sorry that I wasn't clear, I was adding to what you had said. I agree with you.
 
2012-07-30 05:12:13 PM  

justtray: All I have on my side is a mountain of facts and logic.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! gasp HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Those words, I do not think...
 
2012-07-30 05:12:50 PM  

The_Sponge: justtray: Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.


It's amusing when gun grabbers love talking about cock.


I have observed that a disproportionate percentage of civilian disarmament advocates introduce the subject of male genitalia into irrelevant discussions. While my personal observations do not constitute a data set, I am curious as to whether correlation exists between advocacy of new restrictions upon civilian firearm ownership and an obsession with male genitals.
 
2012-07-30 05:26:02 PM  

pedrop357: LaraAmber: Well I have a clitoris, I guess that's a tiny penis.

Pics or it didn't happen, thread useless without pictures, fare thee well, etc.


My husband doesn't mind if I flirt online with strangers (not that I was in this instance). He would draw the line 5 feet wide with bright red paint on sending pictures to other men.
 
2012-07-30 05:26:29 PM  

Dimensio: The_Sponge: justtray: Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.


It's amusing when gun grabbers love talking about cock.

I have observed that a disproportionate percentage of civilian disarmament advocates introduce the subject of male genitalia into irrelevant discussions. While my personal observations do not constitute a data set, I am curious as to whether correlation exists between advocacy of new restrictions upon civilian firearm ownership and an obsession with male genitals.


The scariest thing isn't that that think guns are equivalent to genitalia.

The scariest thing is that (from their twisted point of view) they want to symbolically castrate everyone.

WTF does that say about their psyches?
 
2012-07-30 05:33:39 PM  
People who open-carry are mentally deranged and should not be allowed access to a weapon.
 
2012-07-30 05:33:44 PM  

wmoonfox: Yes you were, no you weren't, and no it wasn't.

Any CCW-holder who doesn't understand that it is both illegal and beyond stupid to carry a firearm, concealed or openly, into a bar or other establishment that serves alcohol, needs to be shot. They make us all look bad, and we don't need that crap right now.

I personally apologize for all CCW-holders on behalf of this man, and suggest that he be beaten about the neck and shoulders until he learns the value of reading his fecking permit. I would also not be opposed to his permit being revoked for a term no shorter than forever.


Actually in many states, like mine, you CAN conceal carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. You just can't carry in a place that PRIMARILY sells alcohol, like a bar, or liquor store. You can carry in a restaurant, but you are not allowed to sit at the bar in the restaurant.

This guy was just going to a movie. I'm not a big fan of open carry, but I don't think this is such a big deal.
 
2012-07-30 05:35:02 PM  

IamAwake:

I didn't say it wasn't done, or that it was impossible. I said it was stupid. Lots of people do lots of stupid things.

There's a reason olympic archery is at 70m, and pistols are at 25 and 50m. 'Tis said that english longbowmen had to hit a man-sized target 10 times in 20 seconds at 200 feet for their station. Here we are centuries later, and the USMC qualifies pistols at 7, 15, 25, and 50m.

Bows speak to the primitive bit better, and at anything beyond deer-can-hear-your-breathing distances, a bow is more accurate. Rifles are more practical for everything other than quickness (though they gain quickness in refire). Handguns either don't have the stopping power or, when they do, create too much of an exit. They don't have accuracy. It's a completely impractical instrument for the task.


Know how I know you don't know what you're talking about? The archery target is 48 inches across at 70 meters(76 yards), the bullseye pistol target is a little under 15 at 50 yards. That means the pistol shooters are shooting from 2/3's the distance, but at a target 1/3 the size. If pistols were so much less accurate than arrows then why is the pistol target proportionally much *much* smaller? Hell, the 9 ring of the archery target is about the same size as the *entire* pistol target.

I'm not a pro but I can hold all of my shots within the 9 ring most of the time shooting bullseye, that's a about 5.5 inches across. Pros mostly hold the ten ring. I guarantee you on a good day as a talented amateur I could keep every shot within the 9 ring of an archery target at 70 yards with my pistol, and that's shooting bullseye style, one handed, and I'm not atypical, if I could do that with a bow I'd be in London right now

I shoot at a head sized gong 100meters away at the range, standing unsupported and hit it 7 or 8 times out of ten, can most people who hunt with bows do the same? The example of english longbowman is one hell of a stretch, they trained from early childhood and shot so much their skeletons deformed, I know hunters who've taken deer with pistols a hundred yards farther than the distance you mentioned with a pistol and not nearly as much training as ye old twangenplucker.

I like reading books too, but taking all of your knowledge from books and not from reality tends to end with you making foolish claims or taking ill chosen stances.
 
2012-07-30 05:36:30 PM  

Novart: People who open-carry are mentally deranged and should not be allowed access to a weapon.


I feel like that would expose many members of our armed forces and police force to undue risk. While there can be an argument for gun-free police, I doubt that many people would find the armed forces very effective sans personal weapons.
 
2012-07-30 05:38:15 PM  

Whiskey Dickens:
I wasn't blaming anything on the Aurora victims, but if they're guilty of something, it's allowing the gun owners such say in lawmaking that there are now 275 million guns legally owned in America.
This translates to 90 guns per 100 citizens, and many more rampages to come. :(


Oh wait, I now see your point, there are 275 million guns legally owned in America. And the Aurora shooting that took place in my backyard is such a freak instance that it made international news and was talked about all over the world until basically the Olympics started. That means there are millions of guns in this country NOT being used to kill people every day. That translates to 90 guns per 100 citizens NOT being used to kill our neighbors every day!

Yeah America!
 
2012-07-30 05:38:27 PM  

redmid17: Novart: People who open-carry are mentally deranged and should not be allowed access to a weapon.

I feel like that would expose many members of our armed forces and police force to undue risk. While there can be an argument for gun-free police, I doubt that many people would find the armed forces very effective sans personal weapons.


That's a necessary risk.

Attention whores who carry in wal-mart are not.
 
2012-07-30 05:39:41 PM  

TheyCallMeC0WB0Y: Came here to laugh at the Liberals shake their tiny, angry fists at the guy who broke no laws yet still was arrested.

/was not disappointed


Came here to laugh at the Conservatives when they pull out their giant c*cks out and show how manly they are because they have to carry a gun around to feel better about themselves safer.
 
2012-07-30 05:39:59 PM  
And by risk I mean, our cops and armed force should be allowed to carry in their service. Joe the plumber can stay home and jerk it.
 
2012-07-30 05:41:07 PM  
The Trolley Square Mall shooting was stopped by an off duty policeman who was carrying a firearm. Many more would have likely been killed had an armed person not stopped the shooter.
 
2012-07-30 05:42:31 PM  

Novart: And by risk I mean, our cops and armed force should be allowed to carry in their service. Joe the plumber can stay home and jerk it.


the gun or his dick? Cause I'm pretty sure members of the police force and army do the same at one point or another. We don't want these mentally deranged actions to overlap as you pointed out.
 
2012-07-30 05:45:43 PM  

Novart: And by risk I mean, our cops and armed force should be allowed to carry in their service. Joe the plumber can stay home and jerk it.


I find it very entertaining that:

a. the anti-gun people apparently think we have so many police that they can follow us around all day and make sure we are safe, as opposed to reality, patrol large areas and frequently show up after the crime has taken place
b. that all gun owners and people carrying concealed are men. Oddly enough, a LOT of them are women. Why? Because we know statistically we are smaller and weaker. The modern gun is the great equalizer.

I worked in security for several years. The cops wanted to prevent crime, they didn't have the manpower to do it.

/It's my responsibility to protect myself, not to expect others to do it for me.
 
2012-07-30 05:46:14 PM  

Dimensio: The_Sponge: justtray: Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.


It's amusing when gun grabbers love talking about cock.

I have observed that a disproportionate percentage of civilian disarmament advocates introduce the subject of male genitalia into irrelevant discussions. While my personal observations do not constitute a data set, I am curious as to whether correlation exists between advocacy of new restrictions upon civilian firearm ownership and an obsession with male genitals.


One of these is nothing like the other.
 
2012-07-30 05:48:06 PM  

NightOwl2255: Dimensio: The_Sponge: justtray: Sucks when you're on the wrong side of facts, I'm sure. That's why me telling you how your small penis gun carrying fantasies will never come true hurt so much. It's ok, you'll get over it. Life goes on regardless if you're a small penis coward who needs a gun to feel safe.


It's amusing when gun grabbers love talking about cock.

I have observed that a disproportionate percentage of civilian disarmament advocates introduce the subject of male genitalia into irrelevant discussions. While my personal observations do not constitute a data set, I am curious as to whether correlation exists between advocacy of new restrictions upon civilian firearm ownership and an obsession with male genitals.

One of these is nothing like the other.


I think the word "onerous" or "severe" is missing. If you put in so many restrictions that the end results is civilian disarmament for everyone but the rich and connected, it's the same as a flat ban for the average citizen.
 
2012-07-30 05:54:54 PM  

redmid17: Also you completely dismiss the countries like Mexico that have pretty stringent firearm ownership yet even higher rates of gun violence than the US. Most of the countries you have compares us to in the past also don't have 3rd world countries bordering to the south where whole provinces are controlled by militarily equipped drug cartels. Something like 80% of the gun violence in the US is drug or gang related. Take away the drugs and suddenly the gangs can't afford the guns and have little to fight over and the cartels get undermined, lose cash, and can't afford guns.


so what I'm getting from this is: legalize drugs and outlaw guns?

that's cool
 
2012-07-30 05:55:05 PM  

LaraAmber: ModernLuddite: Tell me, when you go to get your CCW do they actually require that you show them your tiny penis, or do they just assume you have one?

Well I have a clitoris, I guess that's a tiny penis.


And we have a winner.
 
2012-07-30 05:57:31 PM  

Novart: People who open-carry are mentally deranged and should not be allowed access to a weapon.


Your hatred and contempt for all police officers is unwarranted.
 
2012-07-30 05:59:20 PM  

thisone: redmid17: Also you completely dismiss the countries like Mexico that have pretty stringent firearm ownership yet even higher rates of gun violence than the US. Most of the countries you have compares us to in the past also don't have 3rd world countries bordering to the south where whole provinces are controlled by militarily equipped drug cartels. Something like 80% of the gun violence in the US is drug or gang related. Take away the drugs and suddenly the gangs can't afford the guns and have little to fight over and the cartels get undermined, lose cash, and can't afford guns.

so what I'm getting from this is: legalize drugs and outlaw guns?

that's cool


If that is what you're getting from that paragraph, please pass whatever you're smoking.
 
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