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40138 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2012 at 1:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-30 07:00:24 AM
All I know is that as a testostero-American, my feelings toward abortion changed pretty swiftly once I had kids. It's the law, and I will never call for that to change, but I now wish it was an anachronism because as a society, we worked so diligently to support mothers of all kinds and in all situations.

OTOH, if you call yourself pro-life and you can't introduce me to your adopted kids, then STFU. You aren't serious about it.
 
2012-07-30 07:00:46 AM

BobDeluxe: MajorGroove: Nothing like an empowering feminist monologue scripted by a man.

And then argued by a bunch of men.

If you want to do your part, get a vasectomy so you don't put a woman in the position to make this decision.

For the medical experts here who will enlighten everyone with vasectomy success rates, you may get neutered. I hear it has a very high success rate.

Of course it is your body so do what you want. It's also a free country so you can continue pandering or white kniting or whatever this is.

Good day

END PSA.


Yes, I know. It should be "white knighting"
 
2012-07-30 07:01:38 AM

Lorelle: On the contrary, I've suggested that you NOT have sex with women, since you obviously have hostility towards single women who get pregnant.


Yeah you WAY missed his point.

Not sure if it's on purpose, or if it's ever sense senility set in, but you have way overshot what he was going for, and that I agree with. There is a double standard, and you're just not understanding and that you *seem* to go out of your way to ignore.
 
2012-07-30 07:03:18 AM

Capo Del Bandito: I'm looking for logical and rational explanations, not your 'because I feel this is proper' ideology.


*shrug* I agree. But the nature of the beast is emotional, not rational. Right or wrong, reason finds little traction to sway emotionally motivated people. You want them to make changes to their outlook, it's going to require engaging in kind.
 
2012-07-30 07:05:07 AM

Toxicphreke: Capo Del Bandito, yep my argument as well...abortions for all and child support for none. I cite the studies from pro abortion sites to better demonstrate the double standard. By Lorelle's number 97% of all abortions were lifestyle choices...yet men get 0% choice to maintain their lifestyle should a woman chose to have a kid. And, while i don't think they should have a say in the abortion, the father..oh yes they are not fathers until the kid is born...the sperm provider, should be made aware that his sperm cells were destroyed. That way if he does want kids he can move on to the next one.


It doesn't matter if it's the left or the right, it appears as if 'morality' is their key motivator. They lack the ability to see however that their idea of morality is superior to no one's. Just because their's seems more stable or more logical or equal doesn't make it so.

Remove morality from the equation, apply fair terms to both parties, and have at it.

Otherwise I wish to start a motion to bring back the 'hit people with my broadsword because they were talking sarcastically at me' movement.
 
2012-07-30 07:06:01 AM

Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke

I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples


How is going under a medical procedure that costs $300-1000 the same as a man being obligated to pay $76500 over 18 years? Like I said call me when the woman's choice cost the same as a man's non choice.
 
2012-07-30 07:10:50 AM

Capo Del Bandito: Lorelle: On the contrary, I've suggested that you NOT have sex with women, since you obviously have hostility towards single women who get pregnant.

Yeah you WAY missed his point.

Not sure if it's on purpose, or if it's ever sense senility set in, but you have way overshot what he was going for, and that I agree with. There is a double standard, and you're just not understanding and that you *seem* to go out of your way to ignore.


Like I said, she has no rebuttal so it devolves to name calling. I've not shown any hostility towards women, single or otherwise, but as they say...keep farking that chicken Lorelle.
 
2012-07-30 07:11:08 AM
I agree with these women up to a point...and that point is pregnancy. I do not look at this as a religious thing but a moral thing in out society. I believe that abortion is murder and we all in this society abhor murder. Many women deny that a fetus is human in order to allow themselves the ability to abort the baby and not have an attack by their conscience. If they were to see what the fetus looks like, perhaps they might see the error of their ways. I believe that a woman has total control of her body up until pregnancy occurs. Then she has a "tenant" in her womb and she is morally obligated to provide the best conditions for that baby to grow. Once birth occurs, then she is free to go back to smoking, drinking, etc. Inasmuch as what she does to her body affects the growing baby, she must provide the best conditions for that baby. This is not man's dictates but those of "Mother Nature". Sorry to hurt your feelings, ladies, but these are my feelings and I am entitled to them.
 
2012-07-30 07:11:37 AM
The Men's Rights movement: Because there is no demographic more oppressed than straight, white, middle-class males.

/Lorelle, don't bother, unless you like smacking your head against a brick wall.
//You simply cannot have a reasoned debate with somebody who uses the term "Crotch fruit" seriously.
 
2012-07-30 07:13:18 AM

Toxicphreke: Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke

I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples

How is going under a medical procedure that costs $300-1000 the same as a man being obligated to pay $76500 over 18 years? Like I said call me when the woman's choice cost the same as a man's non choice.


No, examples of the men you are defending whose wives are having abortions without consulting them.
http://www.fark.com/comments/7239561/78384694#c78384694
 
2012-07-30 07:15:14 AM

Fluorescent Testicle: The Men's Rights movement: Because there is no demographic more oppressed than straight, white, middle-class males.

/Lorelle, don't bother, unless you like smacking your head against a brick wall.
//You simply cannot have a reasoned debate with somebody who uses the term "Crotch fruit" seriously.


Way to miss the point. You have my pity and my hope that in the future you stop relying on emotions so much.

A debate would mean she even addressed toxic's points on men being put into financial servitude to the crotch fruit.

Come to think of it, you didn't either.

Funny no?

Toxicphreke: Like I said, she has no rebuttal so it devolves to name calling. I've not shown any hostility towards women, single or otherwise, but as they say...keep farking that chicken Lorelle.


Damn meatbags. Emotions always find a way to destroy the best things.
 
2012-07-30 07:16:14 AM

MooseUpNorth: Capo Del Bandito: I'm looking for logical and rational explanations, not your 'because I feel this is proper' ideology.

*shrug* I agree. But the nature of the beast is emotional, not rational. Right or wrong, reason finds little traction to sway emotionally motivated people. You want them to make changes to their outlook, it's going to require engaging in kind.


Actually, and I quote "no one wins an argument"

If you really want to sway people, make a connection, be earnest, tell them what you want, and respect their decision. That's how you keep things out of court and get what you want in this life.

On the other hand, if you want to win at politics, remember the inner chimp. Eat, fight, fark, play. Tickle one of those buttons or more than one and it will appeal to the masses. Sports are fighting. You pick a side, you join in the riot, fight the enemy with your cheering, and watch your champions smite the other side in mock combat. We love it. Offer a sale at your store. More stuff, less money. Oh how they gorge themselves. Sexy lady on your sign, more people in your store, nuff said. A novelty item that's shiny, new, and mysterious? Iphone is just a game and Jobs got us all to play. After a week, the shine wears off and that's all she wrote. But you keep the phone because hey, I just bought this.

So if you want to sway people to your side get them eating, fighting, farking, or playing somehow either directly or by proxy and you'll convert people. It's like picking teams in dodgeball. Sometimes it's really FUN to bean your best buddy in the nuts with a rubber ball. So you'll turn traitor and join the other team. You can get that same reaction politically if you offer that same air of novelty and visceral fighting button pushed. Look at how we flip flop on presidents' political parties. Same Americans voting, each time a different party wins.
 
2012-07-30 07:17:55 AM

orbister: Are you advocating abortion on demand right up to the moment of delivery?


If it's necessary. Roe v. Wade permits abortions in clinics through the 24th week of pregnancy (six months). After that, it's extremely dangerous for the mother and must be done in a hospital, which is why late-term (third trimester) abortions are extremely rare, and performed primarily to save a woman's life.

BTW, 90% of all legal abortions are performed during the first trimester of pregnancy, when the fetus is less than two inches long. About 60% of all abortions are performed by the eighth week of pregnancy.
 
2012-07-30 07:18:37 AM

orbister: Lorelle: Fetuses aren't babies, dude, no matter how much you want them to be.

When does the abrupt change occur?


Out the hatch is a pretty abrupt change, and the only rational standard for fetus-to-child transition. Before that, it's pretty much a parasite.
 
2012-07-30 07:18:56 AM
Can I have the part of my body that got lost inside them back then?
 
2012-07-30 07:20:01 AM

phojo1946: I agree with these women up to a point...and that point is pregnancy. I do not look at this as a religious thing but a moral thing in out society. I believe that abortion is murder and we all in this society abhor murder. Many women deny that a fetus is human in order to allow themselves the ability to abort the baby and not have an attack by their conscience. If they were to see what the fetus looks like, perhaps they might see the error of their ways. I believe that a woman has total control of her body up until pregnancy occurs. Then she has a "tenant" in her womb and she is morally obligated to provide the best conditions for that baby to grow. Once birth occurs, then she is free to go back to smoking, drinking, etc. Inasmuch as what she does to her body affects the growing baby, she must provide the best conditions for that baby. This is not man's dictates but those of "Mother Nature". Sorry to hurt your feelings, ladies, but these are my feelings and I am entitled to them.


So , let's be clear then, if we accept your premise, a woman whom MIGHT be preganant should be legally banned from any activity that might harm a child she is carrying. Women of child bearing age should be required to produce either proof of sterilization or a negative pregenancy test (No older than their last cycle) in order to be served alcohol.
 
2012-07-30 07:23:36 AM

Capo Del Bandito: Fluorescent Testicle: The Men's Rights movement: Because there is no demographic more oppressed than straight, white, middle-class males.

/Lorelle, don't bother, unless you like smacking your head against a brick wall.
//You simply cannot have a reasoned debate with somebody who uses the term "Crotch fruit" seriously.

Way to miss the point. You have my pity and my hope that in the future you stop relying on emotions so much.

A debate would mean she even addressed toxic's points on men being put into financial servitude to the crotch fruit.

Come to think of it, you didn't either.

Funny no?

Toxicphreke: Like I said, she has no rebuttal so it devolves to name calling. I've not shown any hostility towards women, single or otherwise, but as they say...keep farking that chicken Lorelle.

Damn meatbags. Emotions always find a way to destroy the best things.


Learn to differentiate between a potential eventual human life and an actual human life. An actual child deserves care and support (financial and otherwise) from both parents. An embryo or faetus is a cellular cluster that could possibly in the right circumstances become an actual human life. (if you object to my use of possibly, look up stats for miscarriages, still-births, etc).

Also, you want to be this guy?:

"Sorry kid, but I wanted your mom to abort you instead, here's half of what that would have cost. Good luck paying for college."

Child support payments aren't money to women for having babies, it's money to pay the expenses of raising a(n actual existing) child.
 
2012-07-30 07:23:39 AM

Sabyen91: Lsherm: Sabyen91: Lsherm: fusillade762: Lsherm: Didn't get a good commercial about their body:

That's because it's not a person.

It's a body, isn't it?

/wheee!

[www.molecularstation.com image 600x600]

Looks like one to me.

Can't stay up late tonight to fight with you, my friend, so this is your only response.

But that was a weak argument, especially if you read my Boobies. I even included a picture. Clearly farther along than whatever you're trying to argue, especially since you included a picture.

So we are haggling over a cut-off point?


I thought that was the idea?

For me it's once they can talk and articulate why I should't kill them.
 
2012-07-30 07:25:10 AM

Lernaeus: orbister: Lorelle: Fetuses aren't babies, dude, no matter how much you want them to be.

When does the abrupt change occur?

Out the hatch is a pretty abrupt change, and the only rational standard for fetus-to-child transition. Before that, it's pretty much a parasite.


Life begins when the life in question becomes a distinct organism- when the umbilical chord is severed.
 
2012-07-30 07:26:02 AM

doglover: til it can survive on its own, it's part of the mother. It's like a very special hemorrhoid.


This is the stupidest argument. If I drop your ass off in the northwoods in January you're not surviving on your own, either.
 
2012-07-30 07:27:49 AM

fusillade762: Sabyen91: Lsherm: Sabyen91: Lsherm: fusillade762: Lsherm: Didn't get a good commercial about their body:

That's because it's not a person.

It's a body, isn't it?

/wheee!

[www.molecularstation.com image 600x600]

Looks like one to me.

Can't stay up late tonight to fight with you, my friend, so this is your only response.

But that was a weak argument, especially if you read my Boobies. I even included a picture. Clearly farther along than whatever you're trying to argue, especially since you included a picture.

So we are haggling over a cut-off point?

I thought that was the idea?

For me it's once they can talk and articulate why I should't kill them.


images2.wikia.nocookie.net
Justify yourself!
 
2012-07-30 07:28:11 AM
HA HA. These women are deluded.
 
2012-07-30 07:28:58 AM

Molavian: doglover: til it can survive on its own, it's part of the mother. It's like a very special hemorrhoid.

This is the stupidest argument. If I drop your ass off in the northwoods in January you're not surviving on your own, either.


Yeah I am. Even if I'm naked.
 
2012-07-30 07:29:07 AM

Toxicphreke: Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke

I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples

How is going under a medical procedure that costs $300-1000 the same as a man being obligated to pay $76500 over 18 years? Like I said call me when the woman's choice cost the same as a man's non choice.


I would start by rejecting your basic notion that most women have abortions for "lifestyle" choices. Affordability to raise a child does not equal lifestyle choice. By that logic, if I live in the ghetto because that's all I can afford on my salary, in your eyes, that's a lifestyle choice. I guess I do have an alternative choice which is to be homeless, but I don't think that strengthens your argument much.

Second, if you want the power to have a say in your sex partner's abortion, shouldn't she have a say in whether or not you wear a condom? Or mandate that before you bang her, you submit to a vasectomy? Would you be comfortable with eiother of these requests? I think if you dug deeper into your statistics, you would probably discover that a large percentage of the unplanned pregnancies were caused by the guy going bareback, because let's face it, no man WANTS to wear a condom. For some men, they accept the risk because well, it feels better without it. If you are relying on the woman to be on the pill, and she gets pregnant, well, I think it's that whole "risk/reward" thing, innit?
 
2012-07-30 07:29:35 AM
A lot of fellows here claiming a "rational" argument that would make Aristotle howl.

You say a man has 0% choice in supporting the baby. What you propose is giving him 100% choice. This isn't a binary situation.

If you talked her into spreading her legs, there's a damned good chance she'll listen to your opinion on the pregnancy. You have 50% say in both the abortion and on bailing after birth; just like she does. In both situations you should both be legally obligated to bear 50% of the cost of the consequence (weighted by income*).

Now here's the kicker- in any situation where two people have equal say, there will occasionally be ties. I see nothing more logical than allowing the party who must bear the physical consequences of the decision be the tie breaker.

Bottom line: Talk to her and figure it out. It ain't that hard. If you can't agree, she's the deciding vote.

*If you don't want to pay for more than half of raising the child, only screw rich girls with good jobs.
 
2012-07-30 07:30:00 AM

Jorn the Younger: Learn to differentiate between a potential eventual human life and an actual human life. An actual child deserves care and support (financial and otherwise) from both parents. An embryo or faetus is a cellular cluster that could possibly in the right circumstances become an actual human life. (if you object to my use of possibly, look up stats for miscarriages, still-births, etc).


Again, you miss the point: A woman has a right to deny the fetus to come to term. Why can a sperm donor deny his part in it?

If she decides to have a kid, why is he suddenly involved in it? She came up with that choice, not necessarily both of them.

Again, you're thinking with emotion, not logic.

If a woman wishes to bring the thing to term, good on her. To wrangle the father in it because he was there at the time, that seems logical, so then why not have the man responsible for the abortion as well, at least financially and whatnot.

You want the woman to be wholly responsible for the fetus, including bringing it to term no support from the man of course or being there to help her when her feet swell up, but for him to be there for the kid both emotionally and financially when he wanted no part in it? You make no sense.
 
2012-07-30 07:30:09 AM

Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke: Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke

I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples

How is going under a medical procedure that costs $300-1000 the same as a man being obligated to pay $76500 over 18 years? Like I said call me when the woman's choice cost the same as a man's non choice.

No, examples of the men you are defending whose wives are having abortions without consulting them.
http://www.fark.com/comments/7239561/78384694#c78384694


http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/22/nyregion/man-sues-wife-on-abortion- d one-without-his-knowing.html there is one...there are others and likely many that are no known as the law currently states women do not need to notify the man.
 
2012-07-30 07:30:28 AM

Jorn the Younger: Molavian: doglover: til it can survive on its own, it's part of the mother. It's like a very special hemorrhoid.

This is the stupidest argument. If I drop your ass off in the northwoods in January you're not surviving on your own, either.

Yeah I am. Even Especially if I'm naked.


FTFM
 
2012-07-30 07:30:41 AM

Lsherm: ///especially liked the woman who claimed the right for what goes between her legs and then promptly claimed her right to remove the consequences of it.


You're damned right she does. How dare you claim otherwise.
 
2012-07-30 07:31:05 AM

Jorn the Younger: Life begins when the life in question becomes a distinct organism- when the umbilical chord is severed.


What if it's a premmie and had to be put in a special machine until it can develop on it's own?
 
2012-07-30 07:33:45 AM

Capo Del Bandito: Jorn the Younger: Life begins when the life in question becomes a distinct organism- when the umbilical chord is severed.

What if it's a premmie and had to be put in a special machine until it can develop on it's own?


You guys are really breaking into some new ground here with this argument. Keep going!
 
2012-07-30 07:33:48 AM

Capo Del Bandito: Jorn the Younger: Learn to differentiate between a potential eventual human life and an actual human life. An actual child deserves care and support (financial and otherwise) from both parents. An embryo or faetus is a cellular cluster that could possibly in the right circumstances become an actual human life. (if you object to my use of possibly, look up stats for miscarriages, still-births, etc).

Again, you miss the point: A woman has a right to deny the fetus to come to term. Why can a sperm donor deny his part in it?

If she decides to have a kid, why is he suddenly involved in it? She came up with that choice, not necessarily both of them.

Again, you're thinking with emotion, not logic.

If a woman wishes to bring the thing to term, good on her. To wrangle the father in it because he was there at the time, that seems logical, so then why not have the man responsible for the abortion as well, at least financially and whatnot.

You want the woman to be wholly responsible for the fetus, including bringing it to term no support from the man of course or being there to help her when her feet swell up, but for him to be there for the kid both emotionally and financially when he wanted no part in it? You make no sense.


Why should either parent be financially responsible for the child? Should the woman's decision not to abort sentence her to a "Lfetime of servitude" any more than the man's decision to have sex with the woman?
 
2012-07-30 07:34:09 AM
WTF are these women talking about? They make is sound like the 1800's!

and if women have the "right" to free access to health care because they have boobies, then I fell it only right if men have the same access to happy ending massage parlors.
 
2012-07-30 07:34:20 AM
This is my money, not yours.
 
2012-07-30 07:35:21 AM

ryarger: *If you don't want to pay for more than half of raising the child, only screw rich girls with good jobs.


You don't screw rich girls with good jobs, they screw you.
 
2012-07-30 07:36:04 AM

Jorn the Younger: Life begins when the life in question becomes a distinct organism- when the umbilical chord is severed.


Egh. The fact is, we don't know. There's no clear objective demarcation for when life begins. We don't even have all that solid a definition for 'life'. We know it when we see it, more or less. All I can suggest is that the sooner an abortion takes place, the more likely the morality question remains averted. The solution to the morality-based objection isn't to make abortions harder, it's to make them far, far easier so they can take place just as soon as the pregnancy is detected, preferably while Plan B (if not contraception) is still a viable option.
 
2012-07-30 07:37:00 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Why should either parent be financially responsible for the child? Should the woman's decision not to abort sentence her to a "Lfetime of servitude" any more than the man's decision to have sex with the woman?


Exactly, turn all unwanted children into babyback ribs and call it a day.
 
2012-07-30 07:38:13 AM

EatTheWorld: WTF are these women talking about? They make is sound like the 1800's!


A return to the 1800s appear to be a goal for a significant number of people with political power.
 
2012-07-30 07:38:23 AM

phojo1946: This is not man's dictates but those of "Mother Nature". Sorry to hurt your feelings, ladies, but these are my feelings and I am entitled to them.


The negro is inferior to the white man and should serve as his servant and property. This is not man's dictates but those of "Mother Nature". Sorry to hurt your feelings, abolitionists, but these are my feelings and I am entitled to them.

Does this make sense?
 
2012-07-30 07:39:35 AM

phojo1946: I agree with these women up to a point...and that point is pregnancy. I do not look at this as a religious thing but a moral thing in out society. I believe that abortion is murder and we all in this society abhor murder. Many women deny that a fetus is human in order to allow themselves the ability to abort the baby and not have an attack by their conscience. If they were to see what the fetus looks like, perhaps they might see the error of their ways. I believe that a woman has total control of her body up until pregnancy occurs. Then she has a "tenant" in her womb and she is morally obligated to provide the best conditions for that baby to grow. Once birth occurs, then she is free to go back to smoking, drinking, etc. Inasmuch as what she does to her body affects the growing baby, she must provide the best conditions for that baby. This is not man's dictates but those of "Mother Nature". Sorry to hurt your feelings, ladies, but these are my feelings and I am entitled to them.


It's not a human being until it has a neocortex that's firing synapses. Without a neocortex it is not capable of consciousness and is therefore of no more concern that someone is being "murdered" than when a man spooges into a tissue, or a woman goes through menstruation.
 
2012-07-30 07:40:30 AM

Emracool the Aeons Hip: ryarger: *If you don't want to pay for more than half of raising the child, only screw rich girls with good jobs.

You don't screw rich girls with good jobs, they screw you.


Only if they're slumming.

/ And very, very drunk.
 
2012-07-30 07:40:33 AM

Toxicphreke: Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke: Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke

I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples

How is going under a medical procedure that costs $300-1000 the same as a man being obligated to pay $76500 over 18 years? Like I said call me when the woman's choice cost the same as a man's non choice.

No, examples of the men you are defending whose wives are having abortions without consulting them.
http://www.fark.com/comments/7239561/78384694#c78384694

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/22/nyregion/man-sues-wife-on-abortion- d one-without-his-knowing.html there is one...there are others and likely many that are no known as the law currently states women do not need to notify the man.


Ok, one example, lets read...

FTFL: Dr. Ostreicher claims that his wife, Toni Kleinman Ostreicher, had the abortion to spite him because he refused her pleas to rip up the prenuptial agreement the couple had signed before their marriage in 1985.

and

the lawsuit had no basis, either legally or factually.

''It's all fabricated,'' Mr. Cender said. ''None of the allegations are true. Not only did he know about the abortion, not only did he consent to it, it was his idea. He advised her he didn't want to support the baby. He didn't want to be a father. He's using this lawsuit to get a better financial arrangement. I think he knows that the prenuptial agreement that he rammed down her throat would not stand up in court.''


Also, of course: Published: April 22, 1988

Have anything less than 20 years old? I'd also appreciate it if you can find anything that's a little less "asshole suing his wife as part of a messy divorce"?
 
2012-07-30 07:41:25 AM

Molavian: doglover: til it can survive on its own, it's part of the mother. It's like a very special hemorrhoid.

This is the stupidest argument. If I drop your ass off in the northwoods in January you're not surviving on your own, either.


Actually, I reckon I could survive a damn sight better than you'd expect. I'm no bear gryllis but I've been camping my whole life and I can forage and make shelter. Probably still die, but the point is I'd have a fighting chance. You can give a fetus every comfort, three hots and a cot, perfect climate control, and it's still not going to do anything but wither and die.

Sure, you can slap it in an incubator and blah blah blah. Eventually we can probably just grow one in a jar. But until it can survive under its own power without some kind of umbilical cord, it's just a part of what's supplying it with nutrients.

Now, take a baby out of the womb and it no longer NEEDS the mother. She's ideal for the job, but as long as someone feeds the baby, it will sustain itself. The mother doesn't make it eat, she merely excretes nutrient rich fluid. The baby can survive on something similar. Not so much the fetus, which can't even eat yet.
 
2012-07-30 07:42:13 AM
Houston man forced to pay child support for child that DNA proves isn't his Link

Childless Men Jailed for Non-payment of Child Support
Link

Dad Forced to Continue Paying Child Support for Kids That Aren't His
Link
 
2012-07-30 07:42:22 AM

orbister: When does the abrupt change occur?


Medical definition:

Fetus: An unborn offspring, from the embryo stage (the end of the eighth week after conception, when the major structures have formed) until birth.

Toxicphreke: Yeah you WAY missed his point.

Not sure if it's on purpose, or if it's ever sense senility set in, but you have way overshot what he was going for, and that I agree with. There is a double standard, and you're just not understanding and that you *seem* to go out of your way to ignore.

Like I said, she has no rebuttal so it devolves to name calling. I've not shown any hostility towards women, single or otherwise, but as they say...keep farking that chicken Lorelle.


Dude, in this thread you've complained about women "forcing men to be fathers," and then stated, "Perhaps women will keep their legs closed if they have to raise the kid alone or abort...that or be a little more cautious of who she sleeps with. If they don't want to abort perhaps they will be a little more active in not getting pregnant"

You're quite critical of women who have sex, then brag about how you have "tons of sex with women though." Which reminds me: how much responsibility have you taken to keep from impregnating these promiscuous sluts you claim to be farking?? Do you use condoms? Have you had a vasectomy?

Molavian: doglover: til it can survive on its own, it's part of the mother. It's like a very special hemorrhoid.

This is the stupidest argument. If I drop your ass off in the northwoods in January you're not surviving on your own, either.


Some people can be pains in the ass long after they've been expelled from their mothers' uteri.
 
2012-07-30 07:42:37 AM

Capo Del Bandito: Jorn the Younger: Life begins when the life in question becomes a distinct organism- when the umbilical chord is severed.

What if it's a premmie and had to be put in a special machine until it can develop on it's own?


Was the umbilical chord severed before it was put in the incubator?
 
2012-07-30 07:44:01 AM

RastaKins: This is your body.

And it's none of my business if I pay taxes for...
...your abortion,
...your mammogram,
...your STDs.

Thanks for being so self sufficient.


If you're that worried about your taxes, you're a stingy motherfarker.
 
2012-07-30 07:44:04 AM

MooseUpNorth: A return to the 1800s appear to be a goal for a significant number of people with political power.


riiiiight. Because back then taxpayer funded abortions and birth control were the norm...
 
2012-07-30 07:45:48 AM
Many of the arguments in the video apply to the war on drugs and assisted suicide. And I agree with the logic across the board. If there is one thing on this planet we truly own it's our own body. There should be no law passed that dictates what you can do to it or put in it as long as it's not endangering anyone else.
 
2012-07-30 07:45:51 AM

Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke: Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke: Jorn the Younger: Toxicphreke

I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples

How is going under a medical procedure that costs $300-1000 the same as a man being obligated to pay $76500 over 18 years? Like I said call me when the woman's choice cost the same as a man's non choice.

No, examples of the men you are defending whose wives are having abortions without consulting them.
http://www.fark.com/comments/7239561/78384694#c78384694

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/22/nyregion/man-sues-wife-on-abortion- d one-without-his-knowing.html there is one...there are others and likely many that are no known as the law currently states women do not need to notify the man.

Ok, one example, lets read...

FTFL: Dr. Ostreicher claims that his wife, Toni Kleinman Ostreicher, had the abortion to spite him because he refused her pleas to rip up the prenuptial agreement the couple had signed before their marriage in 1985.

and

the lawsuit had no basis, either legally or factually.

''It's all fabricated,'' Mr. Cender said. ''None of the allegations are true. Not only did he know about the abortion, not only did he consent to it, it was his idea. He advised her he didn't want to support the baby. He didn't want to be a father. He's using this lawsuit to get a better financial arrangement. I think he knows that the prenuptial agreement that he rammed down her throat would not stand up in court.''

Also, of course: Published: April 22, 1988

Have anything less than 20 years old? I'd also appreciate it if you can find anything that's a little less "asshole suing his wife as part of a messy divorce"?


That's going to be tough since the men do not have to sign anything saying they were consented and it'll always come down to a "he said she said" thing. But just think...if she did have the kid he would be paying support on it until just 4 years ago.
 
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