consider this: I'm confused, none of those women were naked.

They were just there to say they *could* get naked.

Lernaeus: No, it's NOT your body.

It's SOCIETY'S body. You didn't make it - someone else gave it to you. If it weren't for society your parents wouldn't have met and you wouldn't exist. You owe your life and everything in it to everyone else; it's time you stopped being greedy and gave back to the community.

This kind of ungrateful, selfish "MY body" attitude will not be tolerated.

No, it's your body. That poop you just pooped though? Someone else grew the food bolted the cow and trucked it to the Burger King and cooked it up and asked if you wanted fries with that. You didn't crap that.

Lorelle: Toxicphreke: I've never said I'm against abortion. I'm against the double standard. I think more people should be aborted. I feel that men are getting a raw deal on the whole thing. Let women have as many abortions as they want, absolve men of financial responsibility. Perhaps women will keep their legs closed if they have to raise the kid alone or abort...that or be a little more cautious of who she sleeps with. If they don't want to abort perhaps they will be a little more active in not getting pregnant, just as for years men who don't want to pay child support have had to be careful as well. Only this way both parties have an out, not just the women.

Ah, OK. But you're obviously opposed to women having sex unless they want to have children. As I suggested earlier, if you don't want to risk impregnating women, just stick to having sex with men.

No I am opposed to the line of thought that says a man has to be responsible if he has sex but a woman does not.

Farker Soze: Lernaeus: No, it's NOT your body.

It's SOCIETY'S body. You didn't make it - someone else gave it to you. If it weren't for society your parents wouldn't have met and you wouldn't exist. You owe your life and everything in it to everyone else; it's time you stopped being greedy and gave back to the community.

This kind of ungrateful, selfish "MY body" attitude will not be tolerated.

No, it's your body. That poop you just pooped though? Someone else grew the food bolted the cow and trucked it to the Burger King and cooked it up and asked if you wanted fries with that. You didn't crap that.

That's a relief, I won't have to pay my sewage bill anymore if you tell me who to mail this crap to so I don't have to take care of it anymore.

cman: Your satire response to my satire would be valid if I were a Christian.

Your move. King to bishop 2

The learned elders would stone you to death for not having proper judeo-CHRISTIAN values. Problem solved.

King me.

Toxicphreke: Lorelle: Toxicphreke: I've never said I'm against abortion. I'm against the double standard. I think more people should be aborted. I feel that men are getting a raw deal on the whole thing. Let women have as many abortions as they want, absolve men of financial responsibility. Perhaps women will keep their legs closed if they have to raise the kid alone or abort...that or be a little more cautious of who she sleeps with. If they don't want to abort perhaps they will be a little more active in not getting pregnant, just as for years men who don't want to pay child support have had to be careful as well. Only this way both parties have an out, not just the women.

Ah, OK. But you're obviously opposed to women having sex unless they want to have children. As I suggested earlier, if you don't want to risk impregnating women, just stick to having sex with men.

No I am opposed to the line of thought that says a man has to be responsible if he has sex but a woman does not.

How is undergoing a medical procedure and all that that entails avoiding responsibility?

Herr Flick's Revenge: Why is this crap coming up?
Abortions are legal.
You want one, have at it.

Lol. I was wondering the same thing. Did we run out of things to be self-righteously outraged about today?

Jorn the Younger: How is undergoing a medical procedure and all that that entails avoiding responsibility?

I think what he's getting at is that if a woman decides to keep the crotch fruit she can charge the man for 18 years of his life to pay for said spawn. The man has no choice but to 'be responsible' for her deciding to reproduce.

If a woman decides she doesn't want it though, it's all good, no matter what the man might say.

Lorelle: Toxicphreke: I've never said I'm against abortion. I'm against the double standard. I think more people should be aborted. I feel that men are getting a raw deal on the whole thing. Let women have as many abortions as they want, absolve men of financial responsibility. Perhaps women will keep their legs closed if they have to raise the kid alone or abort...that or be a little more cautious of who she sleeps with. If they don't want to abort perhaps they will be a little more active in not getting pregnant, just as for years men who don't want to pay child support have had to be careful as well. Only this way both parties have an out, not just the women.

Ah, OK. But you're obviously opposed to women having sex unless they want to have children. As I suggested earlier, if you don't want to risk impregnating women, just stick to having sex with men.

By your argument, if women do not want the risk of pregnancy they should only have sex with women. No of course that is not your argument...because women have the option of abortion. They can have sex with men and later chose to not be responsible for it. I'm ok with that...just give men the same option.

FirstNationalBastard: I like Asian chick, who appears third.

The first chick was just really farking smug, though.

Yeah but ANYONE will appear smug when they start talking about what they have a right to.

I have the right to nearly shiat myself in an elevator and make grown men and women gag and wish for my quick death.

See? Smug.

omeganuepsilon: AverageAmericanGuy: Not that religion was ever teaching anything particularly good in the first place

This is the drivel which causes atheists to get a bad rap. Plenty good has come from religion. Turn the other cheek, love they neighbor, etc, and that spreads down into good actions. Charities, posessing helpful attitudes, people contemplating what is right and fair for all..

Yes, the good comes bundled with the bad in many circumstances, but let's not pretend there was nothing or good about religion at all. It actually served quite nicely the ignorant masses and lent itself to the kind of liberties that we have today. Without open and caring views and introspection on scale, we'd be in a far worse place. You even mention some of that, the "war on women"(slavery, and tyranny in general). It's not a war though, it's a revolution, the "war" was won way back when man discovered he was physically stronger. Now that that's not good enough, change is possible. Social evolution, religion gave us what we have today, the ability to seek out and explain what liberty is, and to attain it, even if only a bit at a time.

The Right, is a fading dictator, slowly losing it's grip. That is all. There are, were, and could yet be, worse forms of tyranny. Not saying religion shouldn't go to hell, but lets give credit where it's due. Otherwise you're just as line-toeing and bigoted as they are.

Why, are, you, so, obsessed, with, using, a, million, commas?

/dont disagree with your point
// just hard to see anything other than a wall of commas among the wall of text

Lorelle: Toxicphreke: No I am opposed to the line of thought that says a man has to be responsible if he has sex but a woman does not.

Your comments about controlling women's sexual activity suggest otherwise.

Legal abortions aren't free, you know. Much of the time, it's women who have to bear the responsibility of paying for them.

Call me when the cost of an abortion reaches $75600 (the average amount a man will have to pay over 18 years for child support).

ThrobblefootSpectre: Herr Flick's Revenge: Why is this crap coming up?
Abortions are legal.
You want one, have at it.

Lol. I was wondering the same thing. Did we run out of things to be self-righteously outraged about today?

But but but.... THE VAST RIGHT-WING WAR ON WOMEN!!!

Lorelle: Toxicphreke: No I am opposed to the line of thought that says a man has to be responsible if he has sex but a woman does not.

Your comments about controlling women's sexual activity suggest otherwise.

Legal abortions aren't free, you know. Much of the time, it's women who have to bear the responsibility of paying for them.

An in clinic abortion is between $300-1000, Such a financial hardship...just think if they had to pay that every month for 18 years!!!!!!

doglover: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: So it's logical to say that life begins when a fetus has a heartbeat and neural activity.

No it's not. Until it can survive on its own, it's part of the mother. It's like a very special hemorrhoid.

The problem with that logic is that it's like saying that someone on life support is not alive because they can't survive on their own without it.

Lorelle: Toxicphreke: By your argument, if women do not want the risk of pregnancy they should only have sex with women. No of course that is not your argument...because women have the option of abortion. They can have sex with men and later chose to not be responsible for it. I'm ok with that...just give men the same option.

*sigh*

Not all women who have sex consented to do so. Back to square one...

Perhaps you should seriously consider buying a RealDollTM. You get all the fun of farking a woman without all of the drama.

And perhaps you could come up with a valid argument rather than using your own circular logic.

Lorelle: Toxicphreke: By your argument, if women do not want the risk of pregnancy they should only have sex with women. No of course that is not your argument...because women have the option of abortion. They can have sex with men and later chose to not be responsible for it. I'm ok with that...just give men the same option.

*sigh*

Not all women who have sex consented to do so. Back to square one...

Perhaps you should seriously consider buying a RealDollTM. You get all the fun of farking a woman without all of the drama.

This is the problem I have with that argument:

Do you have any data, real and comprehensive that shows how many of the women getting abortions are rape victims?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and non-consent sex through rape or drunken sex and the like are very real and things people need to be aware of.

But the way you say it makes it sound like the majority of those women are getting abortions because they're rape victims.

The only women I know who've had abortions, which is admittedly low - only 7, got abortions because they couldn't afford a kid/go to college/etc it'd ruin their current plans.

Lorelle: Toxicphreke: An in clinic abortion is between $300-1000, Such a financial hardship...just think if they had to pay that every month for 18 years!!!!!!

It IS a financial hardship for some.

And so is $75600.

Let's make men have to pay for half the cost of the abortion. If they refuse to do so we'll garnish their wages or throw them in prison and the state will pay for it until said cost is recouped from the scofflaw man. If the woman refuses the abortion the dude is responsible for half the cost of the abortion that he would have had to pay for, but that's it, no child support. If the guy demands that the baby be kept but the woman wants an abortion we'll create an artificial womb in the guy, abort the fetus from the woman and place it in the man for him to carry to term. She no longer has any responsibility, except for paying half for the original abortion. I think this is a sensible solution that is fair to all sides.

The same people who want government out of their bedroom when it comes to regulating their personal behavior want government in their bedroom subsidizing their behavior.

Lorelle: Toxicphreke: An in clinic abortion is between $300-1000, Such a financial hardship...just think if they had to pay that every month for 18 years!!!!!!

It IS a financial hardship for some.

Well you can't always rely on the boyfriend, he's not made of coathangers you know.

But you are kinda avoiding his part of the argument, which I agree with: it's illogical to have a man pay for child support because the woman wanted to keep the crotch fruit, but if a woman wants to get it aborted she has every right to.

By that logic, the man should have a say in it, or at least be able to sign something saying "I told her she should have abortion, i disavow all rights to this kid, no money from here on out".

Farker Soze: that the baby be kept but the woman wants an abortion we'll create an artificial womb in the guy, abort the fetus from the woman and place it in the man for him to carry to term. She no longer has any responsibility, except for paying half for the original abortion. I think this is a sensible solution that is fair to all sides.

Will the artificial womb be 'green' or will it be all man-made non-recyclable parts?

Toxicphreke: A man is on the hook for child support should a woman have the child, but the man...any man, including a husband, has zero say in stopping an abortion.

True. To solve this, you'll need to figure out how to transfer a blastocyte/foetus to that man so that he can carry it to term. When you've done this, that man's objection will be on moral par. Until then, the woman's fundamental right to choose when or when not to be a host must trump all.

Capo Del Bandito, I've already posted links to studies that show a majority of abortions are for lifestyle choices. She just wants to see someone argue that people who are raped or can not safely carry to term can not have an abortion. She has no valid argument so she keeps going back to that and saying that I should have sex with women. I have tons of sex with women though...but I still find to to get myself off...after all I am a masterdebater.

Lorelle: Lernaeus: No, it's NOT your body.

It's SOCIETY'S body. You didn't make it - someone else gave it to you. If it weren't for society your parents wouldn't have met and you wouldn't exist. You owe your life and everything in it to everyone else; it's time you stopped being greedy and gave back to the community.

This kind of ungrateful, selfish "MY body" attitude will not be tolerated.

Women who have abortions DO give back to the community...well, kinda sorta. Well-known job creator Mitt Romney wouldn't have made money from investing in Stericycle were it not for aborted fetuses, don'tcha know?

He can't admit to that, though.

If he did, it may indicate he has an actual understanding of individual rights; conservatives can't tolerate that any more than liberals can.

/rabidly pro-choice

Capo Del Bandito: Do you have any data, real and comprehensive that shows how many of the women getting abortions are rape victims?

Doesn't matter. So long as it's > 0, safe, available abortion is a moral imperative.

Capo Del Bandito: Farker Soze: that the baby be kept but the woman wants an abortion we'll create an artificial womb in the guy, abort the fetus from the woman and place it in the man for him to carry to term. She no longer has any responsibility, except for paying half for the original abortion. I think this is a sensible solution that is fair to all sides.

Will the artificial womb be 'green' or will it be all man-made non-recyclable parts?

All biological, just a space in the abdominal cavity. It's all explained in the documentary Junior. We have the technology, we can make it go.

MooseUpNorth: Toxicphreke: A man is on the hook for child support should a woman have the child, but the man...any man, including a husband, has zero say in stopping an abortion.

True. To solve this, you'll need to figure out how to transfer a blastocyte/foetus to that man so that he can carry it to term. When you've done this, that man's objection will be on moral par. Until then, the woman's fundamental right to choose when or when not to be a host must trump all.

Ok, but only if a man has the right to only pay for abortion costs (even if she keeps the crotch fruit) and nothing for 18 years to pay for the kid's crap.

If you want to stop intrusion on someone's lifestyle choices, make sure you stop it for the men and women, otherwise how is a man going to spend 350 a month his own way instead of forwarding it to a woman for 18 years?

Rights for all, or rights for none.

Bathia_Mapes: FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, this is nice and all, but the people who made this do realize that the people they were addressing will just roll their eyes, spout something about Jesus, and continue on their merry way trying to put women back in the kitchen, right?

I'm certain there will be viewers that do this, but I'm equally certain that there will also be viewers who will listen to these women in an empathetic manner. Granted there are likely to be more of the former than the latter, but IMHO, it doesn't lessen the impact of the video significantly

Shiat, everyone likes slut videos! Good jorb ladies.

MooseUpNorth: Capo Del Bandito: Do you have any data, real and comprehensive that shows how many of the women getting abortions are rape victims?

Doesn't matter. So long as it's > 0, safe, available abortion is a moral imperative.

And as long as >0% of men are falsely forced to support children or >0% of women maliciously obtain sperm (from a condom, spitting for later reuse) to trap a man, not forcing men to pay for 18 years is a moral imperative.

MooseUpNorth: Capo Del Bandito: Do you have any data, real and comprehensive that shows how many of the women getting abortions are rape victims?

Doesn't matter. So long as it's > 0, safe, available abortion is a moral imperative.

HAHA now THIS made me laugh, thanks.

YOUR idea of morality is superior to a christian's idea of morality because...?

Morality is overrated. I'm looking for logical and rational explanations, not your 'because I feel this is proper' ideology.

By my idea of morality we'd still be allowed to carry bludgeons and hit people with them and duel where it could be deemed proper. But that's not fair nor is it safe.

So let's leave 'morality' outta this.

Toxicphreke: Capo Del Bandito, I've already posted links to studies that show a majority of abortions are for lifestyle choices. She just wants to see someone argue that people who are raped or can not safely carry to term can not have an abortion. She has no valid argument so she keeps going back to that and saying that I should have sex with women. I have tons of sex with women though...but I still find to to get myself off...after all I am a masterdebater.

Eh, i'm all for abortions, s'long as a man can sign off on not paying child support.

Farker Soze: All biological, just a space in the abdominal cavity. It's all explained in the documentary Junior. We have the technology, we can make it go.

I'm down. Do you have a petition for me to sign?

Lorelle: Fetuses aren't babies, dude, no matter how much you want them to be.

When does the abrupt change occur?

Lorelle: Do some research, and you'll find that illegal abortions increased dramatically in the U.S. during the Depression, to approximately several hundred thousand per year.

I think you missed my point.

orbister: Lorelle: Fetuses aren't babies, dude, no matter how much you want them to be.

When does the abrupt change occur?

I think that is all a matter of morality in itself.

Right Wingers believe it's a baby as soon as Jesus christ lays a soul in it sorta like an egg dropping.

Left Wingers believer it's a baby the second ti pops out the cooch.

In theory, those who believe the 'it's a baby as soon as it can support itself', it's still a fetus if it's a prem-mature baby that gets put on life support until it's fully developed.

MajorGroove: Nothing like an empowering feminist monologue scripted by a man.

And then argued by a bunch of men.

If you want to do your part, get a vasectomy so you don't put a woman in the position to make this decision.

For the medical experts here who will enlighten everyone with vasectomy success rates, you may get neutered. I hear it has a very high success rate.

Of course it is your body so do what you want. It's also a free country so you can continue pandering or white kniting or whatever this is.

Good day

END PSA.

Capo Del Bandito, yep my argument as well...abortions for all and child support for none. I cite the studies from pro abortion sites to better demonstrate the double standard. By Lorelle's number 97% of all abortions were lifestyle choices...yet men get 0% choice to maintain their lifestyle should a woman chose to have a kid. And, while i don't think they should have a say in the abortion, the father..oh yes they are not fathers until the kid is born...the sperm provider, should be made aware that his sperm cells were destroyed. That way if he does want kids he can move on to the next one.

Farker Soze: Hey dumbass, dont you know that the Government knows whats best for us? Of course, a man who hates Obama for his race wouldn't understand, you bigot

This part was in italics too so I'm guessing you goofed your tags or somebody else posted something that got deleted. In either event, you're still a fool.

No, government is evil. Obviously we should turn over control of our bodies to a theocratic patriarchy of old men and three thousand year old religious doctrine. It's what Jesus would have wanted.

I'm an atheist you moron. If you want control of your body then that's a great and noble aspiration in and of itself. The problem was in that video they talked about it like it was absolute and in which case they are in full and 100% agreement with the insane anti-vaccination crowd.

Well they didn't mean it that way you say? Well, okay then, but it sorta deflates their self righteous indignation quite a bit.

Know what else I didn't say? I never said one way or the other whether I agreed with the pro-choice or pro-life position. My statement purely and simply was that if you advocate that you have an absolute right to your body, and even if you include the exceptions of vaccines, most pro-choice advocates are still promoting a position that isn't compatible with a single payer heath care system.

So what is it? Do you think you have exclusive rights to your body or not? If you believe you do then you're obviously for a free market health care system.

Lorelle: If you're going to insist that you have the right to force women to have children against their will

Are you advocating abortion on demand right up to the moment of delivery?

Toxicphreke

I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples