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(Football Nation)   The twenty greatest quarterbacks since the NFL merger. I'm sure this won't lead to any arguing or anything   (footballnation.com) divider line 156
    More: Interesting, NFL, Bob Griese, Fran Tarkenton, Theismann, quarterback, Terry Bradshaw, Sal Paolantonio, Phil Simms  
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3942 clicks; posted to Sports » on 29 Jul 2012 at 7:48 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-29 03:59:33 PM
Montana number one, Brady ahead of Manning, eh, I have no problems with that.

/the rest is just fodder
 
2012-07-29 04:05:52 PM
21. spergeon wynn
 
2012-07-29 04:07:03 PM

SpikeStrip: 21. spergeon wynn


39. Doug Pederson
 
2012-07-29 04:39:40 PM
Ken Anderson?

Really?
 
2012-07-29 05:18:26 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Ken Anderson?

Really?


Really. Walsh's West Coast Offense started in Cincinnati.
 
2012-07-29 05:27:23 PM
nosoapradiopolka.co.uk
 
2012-07-29 06:20:04 PM
Came for Montana, Young and Brady. Two played pro ball in and retired to SF Bay Area and the other played HS football in SF Bay Area but was passed over in the draft by the Niners. Glad to see them on the list.
 
2012-07-29 06:37:42 PM
No Namath or Unitas?
 
2012-07-29 07:03:41 PM
By the name of holy Tom Landry, Roger Staubach should be a bit higher.
 
2012-07-29 07:46:51 PM

Party Boy: No Namath or Unitas?


Namath is famous for his swagger and grit, not his actual play. Any conversation about overrated QBs will include him. Possibly at the top.

/not a Jets hater, just sayin'
 
2012-07-29 07:51:28 PM
Cool, my work got greenlighted.

Anderson was #17 for almost single-handedly dragging Cincinnati to their playoff runs thirty years ago. He had Munoz and.....well, Munoz. I guess I can include Collinsworth.

I've linked the rest of the list, as it was an exhaustively researched Top 100, which includes Namath, albeit at #82. Namath's best work was pre-merger. I look forward to even more arguments :-)

Link
 
2012-07-29 07:51:55 PM
Phil Simms? He sounds like an idiot.....
 
2012-07-29 07:59:05 PM
Theeesman a little too high for my taste, but pleasingly surprised to not see Favre up near the top.
 
2012-07-29 07:59:13 PM
dickfreckle:

JDawgNJ:


Ok. i hear your argument.

What about Unitas?
Not enough time post merger?
 
2012-07-29 07:59:23 PM
I swore I wasn't gonna lay another fanboy turd in a football thread, but Drew Brees still has a legit 5 years left in the tank. Saints' OL is consistently competent, but especially good at pass block. I'm thinking the guy retires as a legend of the league. I'm not kidding. Our grandchildren will use him as a benchmark.
 
2012-07-29 07:59:34 PM
I. . . well. . . actually this isn't half bad.

I might argue about some of the ranking - but I think they actually picked the right 20 guys.
 
2012-07-29 08:03:58 PM

kukukupo: I. . . well. . . actually this isn't half bad.

I might argue about some of the ranking - but I think they actually picked the right 20 guys.


A humble thank you; the research was both grueling and fascinating.

Party Boy: dickfreckle:

JDawgNJ:

Ok. i hear your argument.

What about Unitas?
Not enough time post merger?


Precisely. He was the one who just made it into the era that I felt weird including, since the ranking would definitely not correlate with his stature. Some like Sonny and Brodie I felt far less weird about, given they're a couple of notches behind what Unitas meant.
 
2012-07-29 08:06:18 PM

JDawgNJ: I guess I can include Collinsworth.


I thought we all agreed to never mention Collinsworth in any thread, ever again. :P
 
2012-07-29 08:08:42 PM
Replace 2 with 3 and I agree.
 
2012-07-29 08:08:52 PM

dickfreckle: JDawgNJ: I guess I can include Collinsworth.

I thought we all agreed to never mention Collinsworth in any thread, ever again. :P


Heh. If you check out the full list, I'd love to hear some of your thoughts. I have Orton #97, because he's actually far better than most people would believe. Grossman's unranked, thus leading to 3 people asking me if I think the Bears would have won the Super Bowl had Orton been in to not make Grossman's mistakes.

And you know what, it'd have been a far closer game. I honestly have no idea who I'd choose; Peyton wasn't at his best; MVP performance be damned.
 
2012-07-29 08:10:51 PM
Bradshaw should be number two, because in the end rings are all that matter, AND he called his own plays. Additionally, he never lost a single Super Bowl, something Brady and Manning can't claim.

Montana gets the nod, though. Not a half-bad list for a change.
 
2012-07-29 08:11:20 PM
Warren Moon needs to be higher, and if you disagree with me, you are a racist.

/am I doing it right?
 
2012-07-29 08:12:47 PM
Meh, I'd quibble over a few things on this list, but my big problems are with Bradshaw and Aikman being ranked so highly. Bradshaw in particular.

He was Joe Namath on a talented team... that's NOT a compliment in my eyes.
 
2012-07-29 08:12:50 PM
TEBOW

/not really
 
2012-07-29 08:16:06 PM

puffy999: Meh, I'd quibble over a few things on this list, but my big problems are with Bradshaw and Aikman being ranked so highly. Bradshaw in particular.

He was Joe Namath on a talented team... that's NOT a compliment in my eyes.


My argument for Bradshaw is that a lot of his offensive numbers were pre-1978, when defenders could do anything short of sodomizing receivers, and the offensive linemen had little leverage against defenders. Any quarterback's stats in that era look weaker, due to the high number of incompletions, picks, etc.

If you put Bradshaw on the Steelers now, with a solid D, good receivers, and a so-so line, does he thrive? I try to keep that in mind.
 
2012-07-29 08:19:56 PM
funkatron.com
 
2012-07-29 08:20:25 PM

puffy999: Meh, I'd quibble over a few things on this list, but my big problems are with Bradshaw and Aikman being ranked so highly. Bradshaw in particular.

He was Joe Namath on a talented team... that's NOT a compliment in my eyes.


I'm going to agree with you, for whatever the opinion of a stranger on the internet is worth to you.

/Bradshaw better than Marino? MADNESS
//Otherwise a pretty defensible list
 
2012-07-29 08:21:34 PM
A few years ago, pro football reference made a pretty good argument that Steve Young was actually the best QB of all time, before taking into consideration his (at the time) best all-time running abilities.

At number 3, he might still be underrated.
 
2012-07-29 08:22:25 PM

teto85: Came for Montana, Young and Brady. Two played pro ball in and retired to SF Bay Area and the other played HS football in SF Bay Area but was passed over in the draft by the Niners. Glad to see them on the list.


Don't worry, in 10 years (barring injury or Mark Wohlers-itis), Aaron Rodgers will probably be in the top 5 on the list, as well.

I think he has the tools to be the greatest of them all, and I mean that. His only downfall is that he's not a BIG quarterback, and I don't know if he could take on the hits that a guy like Manning handled for most of his career. He has Montana's accuracy, but with a far stronger arm and more athleticism. He's a couple years younger than Steve Young was when he became the full time starter in San Francisco, and his yearly QB ratings are around the same level as the ratings Young was obtaining in his greatest seasons. Aaron's best season (2011) blew Young's best season out of the water (even though 2011 was probably the worst year for pass defense in NFL history, particularly through the first half... let's not forget, however, that Rodgers did not have the luxury of playing AGAINST the Packers pass defense).

Of course, Greg Cook could very well have been #1 on this list had his shoulder not been torn apart... so, yeah, something about counting chickens before they hatch.
 
2012-07-29 08:23:54 PM
Brees should be a little higher. Swap Manning and Young. It's a decent list actually.

/whoever said Unitas and Namath- criteria is POST-merger
 
2012-07-29 08:24:14 PM

puffy999: Meh, I'd quibble over a few things on this list, but my big problems are with Bradshaw and Aikman being ranked so highly. Bradshaw in particular.

He was Joe Namath on a talented team... that's NOT a compliment in my eyes.


Yeah, if you look at pro football reference's weighted career approximate value, Aikman is all the way down at 174.

Explanation of approximate value.

The gist is this: "Essentially, AV is a substitute for --- and a significant improvement upon, in my opinion --- metrics like 'number of seasons as a starter' or 'number of times making the pro bowl' or the like. You should think of it as being essentially like those two metrics, but with interpolation in between.
 
2012-07-29 08:26:53 PM

dugitman: /whoever said Unitas and Namath- criteria is POST-merger


Unitas had a career post merger.

He explained himself upthread
 
2012-07-29 08:27:27 PM

roncofooddehydrator: puffy999: Meh, I'd quibble over a few things on this list, but my big problems are with Bradshaw and Aikman being ranked so highly. Bradshaw in particular.

He was Joe Namath on a talented team... that's NOT a compliment in my eyes.

Yeah, if you look at pro football reference's weighted career approximate value, Aikman is all the way down at 174.

Explanation of approximate value.

The gist is this: "Essentially, AV is a substitute for --- and a significant improvement upon, in my opinion --- metrics like 'number of seasons as a starter' or 'number of times making the pro bowl' or the like. You should think of it as being essentially like those two metrics, but with interpolation in between.


Aikman's caveat: sat out a lot of fourth quarters with huge leads, although Emmitt gets a huge share of credit for that as well. Same with their whacked-out offensive line.
 
2012-07-29 08:28:35 PM

roncofooddehydrator: Yeah, if you look at pro football reference's weighted career approximate value, Aikman is all the way down at 174.


I think Aikman could have been serviceable on a decent team, but I think he'd have been nothing special. Maybe he'd have kept his head afloat, made a few million bucks, and went into TV.

I could honestly have seen Bradshaw as a complete flame-out if he happened to have been in a position that didn't allow him to thrive, particularly with how poorly his career began.
 
2012-07-29 08:36:50 PM

Party Boy: dugitman: /whoever said Unitas and Namath- criteria is POST-merger

Unitas had a career post merger.

He explained himself upthread


Ah, I see it upthread now. Still, Unitas was done by 70. Unless you want to drag his pre-merger stats through, he was a terrible QB in this discussion.
 
2012-07-29 08:36:56 PM
I was going to complain a bit about Eli not making the Top 20, but he's apparently 22, so I'm OK with that. Good list, overall.
 
2012-07-29 08:37:06 PM
I think that Aaron Rodgers is better than the bottom ten and right on up in there with the top ten. Wonder why they left him off altogether?
 
2012-07-29 08:38:22 PM
Screw it, I'm addicted to traffic, and everybody else seems to have missed my linking of 21-100. So here they are

21-40
41-60
61-80
81-100
 
2012-07-29 08:38:36 PM
Bradshaw called his own plays. How many on that list did the same?
 
2012-07-29 08:38:53 PM

Mr_Ectomy: Warren Moon needs to be higher, and if you disagree with me, you are a racist.

/am I doing it right?


Okay, nobody agreed with me so y'all a bunch of racists!

/hurrrrrr
 
2012-07-29 08:39:21 PM

JDawgNJ: Aikman's caveat: sat out a lot of fourth quarters with huge leads, although Emmitt gets a huge share of credit for that as well. Same with their whacked-out offensive line.


Aikman had a career winning percentage of 57% and QB rating of 81.6. Marino had a career winning percentage of 61% and a QB rating of 86.4. Marino played for 17 seasons and only had 2 seasons with a QB rating under 80 (76.9 when he was 28 and 67.4 when he was 38). Aikman played for 12 seasons and had 4 seasons with a QB rating under 80 (55.7 at 23, 66.6 at 24, 78 at 31 and 64 at 34).

No matter how you slice it, I just don't see Aikman being a better QB than Marino.
 
2012-07-29 08:40:27 PM

varmitydog: I think that Aaron Rodgers is better than the bottom ten and right on up in there with the top ten. Wonder why they left him off altogether?


You can find him at #24 on my link above. Only played 4 years as a starter. He could have 10 years on a JaMarcus level after this for all we know (though likely not). 24's a good spot for someone with 3 excellent years and one great year, methinks.
 
2012-07-29 08:42:15 PM

roncofooddehydrator: JDawgNJ: Aikman's caveat: sat out a lot of fourth quarters with huge leads, although Emmitt gets a huge share of credit for that as well. Same with their whacked-out offensive line.

Aikman had a career winning percentage of 57% and QB rating of 81.6. Marino had a career winning percentage of 61% and a QB rating of 86.4. Marino played for 17 seasons and only had 2 seasons with a QB rating under 80 (76.9 when he was 28 and 67.4 when he was 38). Aikman played for 12 seasons and had 4 seasons with a QB rating under 80 (55.7 at 23, 66.6 at 24, 78 at 31 and 64 at 34).

No matter how you slice it, I just don't see Aikman being a better QB than Marino.


For that instance, 3 rings are the tiebreaker. Sure, you can argue that Marino never had Emmitt or Irvin or the line or even Novacek, but with Marino's talent and Shula coaching, there should have been more than one Super Bowl appearance.
 
2012-07-29 08:42:48 PM
I think Steve Young is about three slots too high, but other than that, I think this is the sort of well-thought out list that other sports list-makers (looking at you assholes at Bleacher Report) should be soundly beaten with.

And Namath just doesn't have enough of a resume post-merger. Heck, he doesn't have much of a resume pre-merger either. He had a lot of personality and some talent, but he was skittish with the ball and threw way too many interceptions. The Jets won that Super Bowl based on defense (Unitas was constantly being pressured). And you can't place but so much value on a guy who throws more INTs than TDs in the post-WWII era.
 
2012-07-29 08:45:07 PM

skankboy: Phil Simms? He sounds like an idiot.....


And yet he was a star performer who outperformed Elway in a Super Bowl. Ironic how that works.
 
2012-07-29 08:45:27 PM
Joe Theismann was a mediocre QB at best. He had the best offense line in the history of the game to go along with a HOF WR in Art Monk. The fact the doug williams and mark rypien both won superbowls with the same cast means hes overrated
 
2012-07-29 08:45:56 PM

UNC_Samurai: I think Steve Young is about three slots too high, but other than that, I think this is the sort of well-thought out list that other sports list-makers (looking at you assholes at Bleacher Report) should be soundly beaten with.


I want this as the blurb on any book I write. Thank you, sir
 
2012-07-29 08:47:58 PM

UNC_Samurai: The Jets won that Super Bowl based on defense (Unitas was constantly being pressured).


Earl Morrall was the Colts qb in that game. Unitas didnt come in until just before the 4th quarter.
 
2012-07-29 08:50:15 PM
www.nflpassers.com
 
2012-07-29 08:52:24 PM

consider this: [www.nflpassers.com image 312x400]


Ahh, I didn't list the following disqualifier: no QBs drafted from 2007 onward. He would have been the only one, next to maybe Ryan or Flacco, that would have had a chance.

Sorry, Jets fans. Twice.
 
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