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(AlterNet)   Five "scientific conclusions" about cannabis the media doesn't want you to know. Missing from the list: marijuana is, in fact, a drug that impairs judgment and shouldn't be treated lightly, just like alcohol   (alternet.org) divider line 384
    More: Asinine, drug czar, antipsychotics, scientific evidence  
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22517 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jul 2012 at 5:46 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-29 06:54:36 PM

fireclown: Gyrfalcon: 5. Doctors decided which other drugs should be Schedule I; Congress decided on marijuana.

Damned good point.


it's not the doctors business any more than the politicians what I choose to consume.
 
2012-07-29 06:55:16 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.


This.
 
2012-07-29 06:56:06 PM

tomWright: Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe


Which is the dumbest argument ever.

Water has caused people to OD......so OUTLAW H2O!!!!!
 
2012-07-29 06:56:37 PM

Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.


The lessons of Prohibition are worth noting:

When alcohol was illegal, the mob got into it because it was fast, easy money. They ALSO were involved in narcotics, prostitution and gambling.

When gambling was illegal and alcohol wasn't, the mob dropped booze and shifted into gambling. Still pushing the whores and drugs.

When gambling became legal in Vegas, they shifted to selling overpriced booze and skimming profits; when the NGC stepped in, they dropped gambling and had to focus on drugs, hookers and strong-arming the unions.

Moral is: Racketeering orgs and gangs will always find ways to make money on whatever is illegal and easy. Make something legal, so that people don't need to come to them, and they'll have to shift to something else. But that's NOT a reason to keep things illegal. Sure, the cartels would have to switch to something else--they're selling pot and meth because it's easy and cheap. Make pot legal, and they'll have to find a new money generator. Why keep it easy for them, though? Make them find a new source and a new audience.
 
2012-07-29 06:56:47 PM

steamingpile: BronyMedic: Marijuana should be legalized and taxed, the same as alcohol and cigs. Not only would it bring in millions of dollars for the state and federal governments, it would eliminate a large subset of crime, both violent and non, and free up our prison and penal system from thousands of frivolous cases each year.

But, that said, let's not pretend that Marijuana is completely harmless. It has the same level of harm as long-term tobacco use. And you really don't want to use it if you're schizophrenic.

Only the same long term effects if you smoke the same amount as cigarettes and that's pretty much impossible, most of my friends that smoke cigarettes go through a pack a day. If you can smoke 20 joints a day then you must be a God or Tommy Chong...


People seem to ignore the fact that you can just eat it also. Make some nice chocolate chip cookies with good weed and they'll taste different, but they won't taste bad unless you don't like chocolate chip cookies to begin with. Eat a cookie or two and enjoy a nice buzz for several hours. Lungs saved!
 
2012-07-29 06:56:53 PM
I think of pot more like coffee than home brewed beer.

Everybody could easily do it themselves but they'll still pay for the convenience and variety.

Regardless, this shouldn't even be a discussion. There are no reasonable justifications for pot cultivation/distribution/usage to be illegal. Zero. Nil. Nada.
 
2012-07-29 06:57:03 PM

radarlove: There are over 14,000 strains of cannabis, each with its own unique effects, its own potency, its own smell and taste, and its own drawbacks.


A wonder genus, yes.

It will be a great day when a person can go to a doctor for their arthritic extremities and obtain a recommendation for the best strain available. It will open a potentially new market in the medical field, doctors whose expertise is marijuana prescription.
 
2012-07-29 06:57:33 PM

puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked


Scruffy believes in this company
 
2012-07-29 06:58:56 PM

Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.


Moonshining still exists.

It is a tax issue though. Those damn 'Revenoors!" who are hated up in the hills, are not out to get folks because they are producing illegal product, but avoiding the tax.

Drug dealers, a good number of them, will make a switch. To a smaller clientele. Others, will become new and entirely legal entrepreneurs. THAT is the real fear in the market. An influx of craft growers who will undercut industries.

Legal pot would drop the price, not make it grow. It would then become better to grow for distribution markets, and use *gasp* middlemen who would then assume the distribution costs for themselves. It would create ancillary markets and folks would adjust. Oddly enough, like the liquor industry has adjusted to craft brewers. Price points would be skewed from what they are now. Availability and quality would adjust prices accordingly. Growers would be able to declare said income. Boon for the states as well as the Fed. The IRS would be involved, and that would keep some folks growing illegally, but it would turn into a tax issue, not enforcement.
 
2012-07-29 06:59:13 PM

Gyrfalcon: , they dropped gambling and had to focus on drugs, hookers and strong-arming the unions.

Moral is: Racketeering orgs and gangs will always find ways to make money on whatever is illegal and easy. Make something legal, so that people don't need to come to them, and they'll have to shift to something else. But that's NOT a reason to keep things illegal. Sure, the cartels would have to switch to something else--they're selling pot and meth because it's easy and cheap. Make pot legal, and they'll have to find a new money generator. Why keep it easy for them, though? Make them find a new source and a new audience.


Maybe their next target would be the banking industry...

"Goldman Sachs CEO didn't pay his bill... collapse his kneecaps, Vinnie."
 
2012-07-29 06:59:16 PM

puffy999: pdkl95: Even better, not only is it future-proof against any other drug invented in the future, but this catches non-drug problems as well, such as the one that is probably the #1 issue on the highways right now: sleep deprivation general inattentiveness.

/ftfy
//could have also gone with "old people"


Sure.

Though those two groups have a huge overlap anyway.

/good point though -- we'd have to put some farmer's markets into the simulator...
 
2012-07-29 06:59:25 PM

pxlboy: puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked

Scruffy believes in this company


Why aren't you fixing the boiler?
 
2012-07-29 07:00:34 PM

Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.

So you admit that the potential tax revenue often claimed by those in favor of legalization are exaggerted at best, and complete nonsense at worst? And no, I'm not making a slippery slope argumet about weed leading to harder drugs. I'm arguing that harder drugs will become more pervasive since the former weed dealers will end up having to turn to something else to pay the bills.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.

 
2012-07-29 07:00:45 PM

Explodo: Asa Phelps: Captain_Ballbeard: Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!

I assure you that anyone can make alcohol.

As a home brewer with less than 6 months experience, i'm pretty sure that almost anyone can even make good alcoholic beverages.

Beer, wine, and mead are relatively difficult compared to just straight up hooch, too. If you feel like resorting to sugar water with some carrot puree and bread yeast and then distilling it on the stove, you can in fact do that and it will work.

With the right yeast and nutrient mix and the right fermentation conditions you can get a 20% alcohol beverage ready to drink in about 3 days.

But it'll likely taste like crap.


No worse than flavored vodka, depending on what you do with it. There are products that drop the fusels out of it, etc. There's a whole industry providing products to people who live in places where distillation is illegal but making wine or beer is not. Some are claiming that their yeast will go all the way to 23% alcohol with no distillation though they admit that it gets funkier the higher up you go.

If you are at all good at distilling it's not hard to get something close to everclear, and from there not hard at all to dilute it down to vodka strengths.

He didn't say that the general public can't make single malt scotch - because that shiat is hard to make right. What he said was that people can't make alcohol.

But if you just want to get a buzz on and you only want a neutral alcohol, which is what most people these days seem to want, it's way easy and requires minimal labor.
 
2012-07-29 07:02:55 PM

Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.


So you admit that the potential tax revenue often claimed by those in favor of legalization are exaggerted at best, and complete nonsense at worst? And no, I'm not making a slippery slope argumet about weed leading to harder drugs. I'm arguing that harder drugs will become more pervasive since the former weed dealers will end up having to turn to something else to pay the bills.
 
2012-07-29 07:03:46 PM
"I need a better dealer"

My shiat keeps a light and sticks to the wall. I know what weed is, I have been smoking it for thirty-seven years. That said no, it just cannot impair one the way an over-exposure to ethanol can. Probably only a deleriant could do that.
 
2012-07-29 07:05:31 PM

Explodo: pxlboy: puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked

Scruffy believes in this company

Why aren't you fixing the boiler?


I'm on break.

*turns page*
 
2012-07-29 07:06:10 PM

puffy999: Explodo: pxlboy: puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked

Scruffy believes in this company

Why aren't you fixing the boiler?

I'm on break.

Schedule conflict.

*turns page*


/ftfm
 
2012-07-29 07:06:42 PM

puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked


I prefer Merlot.

But anyway - what i was talking about - take a look at Still Spirits product line.

You can get to 18% alcohol with a $2 packet of EC-1118 champagne yeast from any homebrew store - "turbo yeast" is just way faster.
 
2012-07-29 07:07:25 PM

pdkl95: Though those two groups have a huge overlap anyway.


Oh yeah, but people underestimate just how much attention it takes to turn the knob on the radio or talk to their screaming kids. Tired drivers are a large subset of that.
 
2012-07-29 07:07:31 PM

pdkl95: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

*sigh*

Yet again, this is attempting to solve the wrong problem.

When concerned about safety and things like DUI, this problem isn't "how much drug is this person currently on?", but "Do they have the necessary abilities to drive the car safely".

It doesn't matter the amount of THC, ethanol, or anything else the person might be using: if your reaction time, for example, is insufficient, you shouldn't be driving the damn car. Even better, not only is it future-proof against any other drug invented in the future, but this catches non-drug problems as well, such as the one that is probably the #1 issue on the highways right now: sleep deprivation.

If you've had a bunch of alcohol, but the test proves your abilities are still reasonable... meh. I'm not worried about you. If you've been up for 27 hours and starting to miss things like that stop sign over there, you're the actual danger.

It's probably even fairly simple and cheap to measure ability, too: if we can make a Nintendo DS for less than a couple hundred dollars, it shouldn't be more than that to make some sort of simulator that runs through a quick driving test.


Determining if someone is impaired from drugs or alcohol would involve too much ambiguous interpretation. The courts don't like that since it is the sort of thing that can not be easily proven one way or another. While a BAC is not a perfect measure, it is a reasonable tool (except when the level is set to ridiculously low values) for legal purposes.

Your suggestion that some kind of coordination test won't work. You need to have a baseline that is individually tailored for each person. Otherwise naturally clumsy people will get arrested for drunk driving.
 
2012-07-29 07:07:37 PM
If cannabis is legalized, everyone will grow their own and the government won't get a cut?

If you are the kind of smoker who is an at-home evening smoker and you live in a medical marijuana state, you will find yourself vaporizing hash instead of smoking flowers (or leaves). You won't be making your own hash, you will be trotting down to the local dispensary.

/there is money in legalization for the regulators
 
2012-07-29 07:09:04 PM

AndreMA: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

Actually we need something that measures impairment, unlike BAC.


what the hell are the field sobriety tests used for drinking for then?
 
2012-07-29 07:11:04 PM

puffy999: radarlove: There are over 14,000 strains of cannabis, each with its own unique effects, its own potency, its own smell and taste, and its own drawbacks.

A wonder genus, yes.

It will be a great day when a person can go to a doctor for their arthritic extremities and obtain a recommendation for the best strain available. It will open a potentially new market in the medical field, doctors whose expertise is marijuana prescription.


They had those back in (alcohol) Prohibition days. You'd go down to the doctor and get a pint whiskey prescription.
 
2012-07-29 07:12:09 PM

Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.

But holy fark this entire weed prohibition bullshiat is ridiculous, costs money, ruins lives, and has absolutely no positive side-effects to go along with it. Who the fark still thinks this is a good idea?


Me. I support it and the drug war. Why? Because a number of my friends make their entire living selling marijuana and a few other drugs. I'd hate for them to have to starve, be without money, etc... There's no way they'd be able to compete against the retail powerhouses so, well, I'm a bit biased.
 
2012-07-29 07:12:30 PM

spman: So you admit that the potential tax revenue often claimed by those in favor of legalization are exaggerted at best, and complete nonsense at worst?


Potentially, the tax revenues COULD almost not exist, if your average American re-develops a green thumb. However, most people are too lazy and will buy their product from stores that are licensed and pay taxes. Considering the decreased spending on marijuana-based crimes, it's worth it for that factor alone.

spman: I'm arguing that harder drugs will become more pervasive since the former weed dealers will end up having to turn to something else to pay the bills.


They'll have to do something, but most of them aren't going to start selling cocaine or hard drugs, because the majority of their former clients will not be interested. MOST people stay with pot, and there are reasons for that. And if they go off the deep end and start lacing their products, they WILL be going to prison.
 
2012-07-29 07:14:53 PM

ozebb: Hey subby, right there on the page is a handy clickable link that gives a URL like this: http://www.alternet.org/drugs/five-scientific-conclusions-about-canna b is-mainstream-media-doesnt-want-you-know?paging=off

Which results in a much more readable article. Is that really so hard?


if you're stoned, well yeah.
 
2012-07-29 07:16:03 PM

OgreMagi: Your suggestion that some kind of coordination test won't work. You need to have a baseline that is individually tailored for each person. Otherwise naturally clumsy people will get arrested for drunk driving.


You clearly have never known anyone who has been arrested for driving under the influence. It's a much more complicated process than "Hi, I'm Officer Bob, blow into this tube. Oh, 0.08, you're under arrest right now." There's more to the process in court, as well.

Actually, a calibrated machine would be MUCH more impartial than your average beat cop who claims a person's eyes were, at the time, bloodshot. How about calibrating each user's driving habits (with some reasonable degree of leeway) each time they renew their driving license?
 
2012-07-29 07:17:43 PM

Mr.Bobo: [farm4.staticflickr.com image 426x640]

Its a plant... Legalize it...


.
.
It looks to me like your Ph is off, not that I would know.
 
2012-07-29 07:19:34 PM

daffy: I wish it was as easy to get it here in New York State as it is in California. I am on 17 different scips for various problems, all resulting in pain that could take down a rhino. Pot has fewer side effects than the meds I am on. They have to check my liver, kidneys and lungs every month by testing my blood. I also have Glaucoma, and take 3 different eye drops 2 a day. I also liked the way it made me feel, with not hangover in the morning. Of course, there is the munchies. My weight may suffer (I mean more then it has already). GIVE ME POT!


My sister has a username (not on Fark) very similar to your username. She, too, is crippled with myriad health problems that are beyond the pale.

Fortunately, she is in Maine with me now. She has her weed script. Sort of like they say with food and jobs, perhaps you need to move to where the weed is?

The best part? She lives right smack dab next to a school. Yup, right in a school zone. I'm kind of hoping they bust her. I've got her legal fees covered and think it would make an excellent test case. At the same time, a large portion of the complexities in her health are due to her mental health issues and if they bust her she may well snap and kill someone. So, there is that.
 
2012-07-29 07:22:40 PM
Oh and to clarify, the reason I brought that up is because officers (if properly trained) should ask nearly before anything (other than asking about substances consumed) whether a person has a medical condition that may result in behavior that's odd or may simulate symptoms of being under the influence of something.
 
2012-07-29 07:23:18 PM

OgreMagi: Determining if someone is impaired from drugs or alcohol would involve too much ambiguous interpretation. The courts don't like that since it is the sort of thing that can not be easily proven one way or another. While a BAC is not a perfect measure, it is a reasonable tool (except when the level is set to ridiculously low values) for legal purposes.


Why wouldn't it work? Making an objective test for reaction time, for example, is amazingly trivial, and would only require some minor studies to determine where to set the failure cutoff level.

And while you suggest coordination tests wouldn't work, you're implying that brethalyzer or similar alcohol (and hypothetically THC) tests do. When they obviously don't for many cases. [trivial example: my Filipino friend who has both of the "asian genes" for alcohol, and gets stupid drunk off one drink. No way he should go near a car, but he'd still easily pass a breathalyzer]

Your suggestion that some kind of coordination test won't work. You need to have a baseline that is individually tailored for each person. Otherwise naturally clumsy people will get arrested for drunk driving.

Ahh, here's the problem: such a baseline is NOT supposed to be "per person"! Just because you are a different person with slightly different traits and abilities doesn't change the physics involved in driving a vehicle!

The reaction time you need, so you apply the breaks successfully when you see the red lights on the car in front of you depends only on the speed of the two cars and how quickly the breaks slow you down. Reality doesn't change to the abilities of the individual driver; the driver needs to be skilled enough to deal with realities needs!
 
2012-07-29 07:25:16 PM

Oznog: Can cannabis use quell thoughts of suicide? Not a chance, claim the mainstream media and the Drug Czar . But a little-noticed discussion paper published this past February by the Institute for the Study of Labor in Bonn, Germany provides dramatic evidence to the contrary.

Explanation: marijuana users never get off the couch and do ANYTHING, even kill themselves.


Sounds like you know an extremely limited number of people who use pot or none at all. I know many very productive, creative, and financially successful pot users. Your conclusions seem unfounded to me.
 
2012-07-29 07:26:41 PM

BronyMedic: AndreMA: Actually we need something that measures impairment, unlike BAC.

BAC does a pretty good job of measuring impairment, actually, among a large subset of the population. There's always going to be exceptions to the rule, but it's a good general guide.

/Woohoo! Drunk Driving apologist thread!


I think his point was that we need a test that measures general impairment. Yes, BAC is a good indicator of ALCOHOL related impairment, but there are many other ways to be impaired. No one's saying that drunk driving should be allowed. (Unless I missed something somewhere...)
 
2012-07-29 07:27:05 PM
After 60 years of total fail , the cannabis prohibition laws are slaughtering, by dealers, and harming, by imprisonment, far more people than cannabis use ever did or could.

There's a huge difference between being under the influence of cannabis which last a few hours after the last intake, and having cannabis in the system which lasts a few weeks after the last intake.

Personally, the result of a cannabis ' overdose ' is a good nights sleep with no hangover in the morning.

' For profit prisons ' are funded government contracts, i.e, your taxes.

History shows us that prohibition doesn't work when it's based on lies.

.
 
2012-07-29 07:28:13 PM

Wolf892: Its stench gets everywhere and I shouldn't have to be nauseated by it.


We share the planet with other humans and some of them smell bad. You'll get over it.

/ Never used, but like the smell
// Cat loves the smell and goes right to the window when a neighbor lights up
 
2012-07-29 07:29:01 PM

pdkl95: The reaction time you need, so you apply the breaks successfully when you see the red lights on the car in front of you depends only on the speed of the two cars and how quickly the breaks slow you down. Reality doesn't change to the abilities of the individual driver; the driver needs to be skilled enough to deal with realities needs!


I do think a baseline would be needed for every person if one were to use this method for a court case regarding a person's sobriety and whether insobriety made them dangerous on the road. Otherwise, the measurement you ask for (which I don't disagree with...) would simply test whether a person should have been driving at that particular time. Really, I wouldn't mind if more dangerous drivers were sent home instead of being sent to jail, but that's another kettle of fish.

I mean, clearly any arrest for DUI would couple blood tests and visual observation of a subject along with results of a driving test, but the driving simulation itself would directly do very little to boost a court's case that a person was under the influence, at least without a comparison to that person when "sober."
 
2012-07-29 07:29:42 PM

Explodo: steamingpile: BronyMedic: Marijuana should be legalized and taxed, the same as alcohol and cigs. Not only would it bring in millions of dollars for the state and federal governments, it would eliminate a large subset of crime, both violent and non, and free up our prison and penal system from thousands of frivolous cases each year.

But, that said, let's not pretend that Marijuana is completely harmless. It has the same level of harm as long-term tobacco use. And you really don't want to use it if you're schizophrenic.

Only the same long term effects if you smoke the same amount as cigarettes and that's pretty much impossible, most of my friends that smoke cigarettes go through a pack a day. If you can smoke 20 joints a day then you must be a God or Tommy Chong...

People seem to ignore the fact that you can just eat it also. Make some nice chocolate chip cookies with good weed and they'll taste different, but they won't taste bad unless you don't like chocolate chip cookies to begin with. Eat a cookie or two and enjoy a nice buzz for several hours. Lungs saved!


Oh hell yeah, I made some Brownies one time after straining the weed and they kicked ass, I have smoked a lot of pot so I have a fairly high tolerance but one little half Brownie farked me up. My buddy who travels overseas a lot ate two and he said he felt like he was tripping for about 3 hours.

Pot also makes people less aggressive than alcohol unless you have mental issues to start with but that's a small percentage.
 
2012-07-29 07:29:47 PM

OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot


We need to use tests not for blood level, but for actual impairment. Great Aunt Gertrude shouldn't be driving if she can't see beyond the hood of her Crown Vic...
 
2012-07-29 07:31:10 PM

Gyrony: Great Aunt Gertrude shouldn't be driving if she can't see beyond the hood of her Crown Vic...


HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY THE FREEDOMS OF OUR MOST SEASONED OF AMERICANS.
 
2012-07-29 07:32:16 PM

Esroc: I don't see why marijuana making you a bit lazy is such a favorite argument for the anti-weed crowd. For starters, it doesn't make you so lazy you just waste away on your couch. I still manage to get up and go to work every day, pay my bills, and easily contribute to society. The only difference is when I get home instead of a beer and ESPN, I roll a joint and watch cartoon network.

Plus, I suspect if more people would just chill out and smoke a bowl, then maybe we'd all stop killing eachother.


So very much this
 
2012-07-29 07:33:36 PM
For example, a news story from the July 6, 1927 edition of the New York Times pronounced, "A widow and her four children have been driven insane by eating the Marihuana plant, according to doctors, who say there is no hope of saving the children's lives and that the mother will be insane for the rest of her life."

One theory I read was that marijuana MIGHT have been confused with datura (Jimson weed). Basically it was the "AK-47" of its contemporary media (and even medical) reporting. This could explain a lot, because marijuana was described as inducing nightmarish hallucinations, delirium, and sometimes violent psychotic behavior, which it's now understood NOT to do, but datura IS known to do that.

The term "weed" might be somewhat interchangeable between Jimson weed (datura) and marijuana. The users themselves might not be aware of the difference, it's not like a kid in Maryland consults a botanical chart. If that's what some kids smoke there, and primarily called it "weed", and you hear the term "marijuana", I could see where a mistake could be made. So you MIGHT all freak out and go to a doctor or get arrested and confess it was because you were smoking "marijuana", when it wasn't.

Funny thing is, datura was never banned at all (for the most part), even though it's a FAR more harmful drug. I guess they figured it was so undesirable that the problem was rather "self-limiting".
 
2012-07-29 07:33:44 PM
Making hash is frightfully easy.
The analogy with EtOH breaks down here as well. If the tariff gets too high, people will resort to self-production.
 
2012-07-29 07:35:41 PM

puffy999: Gyrony: Great Aunt Gertrude shouldn't be driving if she can't see beyond the hood of her Crown Vic...

HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY THE FREEDOMS OF OUR MOST SEASONED OF AMERICANS.


I blink fail blink to blink see blink the blink point blink of blink your blink comment.
 
2012-07-29 07:36:14 PM
Oh, and for those in the thread who are claiming that the government will reap no tax revenue because cannabis is so easy to grow, I have this to say:

Yes, cannabis is easy to grow. Like all plants, it just wants to live. A bunch of sunlight and some water in nutrient rich soil will keep it growing.

It is not, however, easy to grow RIGHT. If you want a good quantity of high-quality cannabis, it takes a lot of time, effort, patience, and diligence to grow a good plant. It can be a very fickle plant, sensitive to temperature and humidity and to pH levels in your soil and water, and very vulnerable to pests like spider-mites. Deer will eat it by the bushel. Plants need to be sexed and the males removed promptly to avoid pollination. Trimming is a VERY labor intensive process that takes a great deal of time, and proper curing takes a great deal of time and attentiveness as well.

You don't have to pay constant attention to your tomatoes and eggplants. You don't have to spend weeks curing them after the fact.

And most folks will STILL buy their produce from the store rather than growing it themselves. It is more expensive to go out and buy them, sure, but it is less of a pain in the ass than tending a garden, so people shop. Hell, even cooking is too much of a pain in the ass for some people, so they go out to restaurants.

What makes people think cannabis would be any different?

Cannabis shops and hash bars will make BANK in this country once legalization finally happens, and that's a taxable revenue stream that the government is in no position to pass up.
 
2012-07-29 07:37:35 PM

Ryker's Peninsula: Pink Floyd or Bob Marley is a fine, Sublime will get you arrested, and Monster Magnet gets you a police escort to your destination.


Monster Magnet? Really? It seems my stoner stereotypes are badly out of date. I don't smoke (job reasons), but you'll get my copy of Powertrip when you take it from my cold dead hands.
 
2012-07-29 07:39:04 PM

Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.


As a 44 year old woman who smokes daily, and has been a smoker for about 25 years, I am curious to hear of these "drawbacks".
I've watched some of my male friends smoke from the time they were in their late teens.. so yes.. I am curious. Maybe I need to alert them.
 
2012-07-29 07:39:55 PM

relcec: it's not the doctors business any more than the politicians what I choose to consume.


Also a damned good point. But doctors are more qualified to speak to how a substance affects the human body. Their advice is worth more than a congressmans on this point.
 
2012-07-29 07:41:16 PM

Fano: Getting high leads to telling longwinded pointless stories and engineering bongs out of anything your stoned mind can conceive from tools at hand.


For me it led to starting a summer seasonal scooter rental business near a national park that allows me to have 8 months off a year to bum around the country and take photographs of cool stuff.
/but that's just me.
 
2012-07-29 07:45:59 PM

santadog: Fano: Getting high leads to telling longwinded pointless stories and engineering bongs out of anything your stoned mind can conceive from tools at hand.

For me it led to starting a summer seasonal scooter rental business near a national park that allows me to have 8 months off a year to bum around the country and take photographs of cool stuff.
/but that's just me.


sourbrains.org
 
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