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(AlterNet)   Five "scientific conclusions" about cannabis the media doesn't want you to know. Missing from the list: marijuana is, in fact, a drug that impairs judgment and shouldn't be treated lightly, just like alcohol   (alternet.org) divider line 384
    More: Asinine, drug czar, antipsychotics, scientific evidence  
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22515 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jul 2012 at 5:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-29 03:55:50 PM
5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

read that one again: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

you cannot argue with these facts. this has been scientifically proven - cannabis does not meet the requirements of Schedule I. you MUST accept this fact, you have no choice in the matter. And once you do admit to the facts involved...then the entire argument against legalization falls apart.
 
2012-07-29 03:57:04 PM
Does Trolly McTrollmitter get time-and-a-half on Sundays?
 
2012-07-29 04:02:36 PM

DrBenway: Does Trolly McTrollmitter get time-and-a-half on Sundays?


Green-and-a-half is my guess

/and a fattie
 
2012-07-29 04:02:58 PM
Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe
 
2012-07-29 04:20:25 PM
Hey subby, right there on the page is a handy clickable link that gives a URL like this: http://www.alternet.org/drugs/five-scientific-conclusions-about-canna b is-mainstream-media-doesnt-want-you-know?paging=off

Which results in a much more readable article. Is that really so hard?
 
2012-07-29 04:33:18 PM
So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.
 
2012-07-29 04:34:28 PM
4. Cannabis use is associated with only marginal increases in traffic accident risk

Bill Hicks: Say you get in a car accident and you've been smoking pot? You're only going 4 miles an hour. ::Crashhh:: "shiat we hit something." "Forgot to open the garage door, dude." "We got to get the garage door open so Domino's knows we're home!"
 
2012-07-29 04:50:12 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.


I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.
 
2012-07-29 04:57:15 PM

Ryan2065: The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.

I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.


I could live with that.
 
2012-07-29 05:51:27 PM
Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.

But holy fark this entire weed prohibition bullshiat is ridiculous, costs money, ruins lives, and has absolutely no positive side-effects to go along with it. Who the fark still thinks this is a good idea?
 
2012-07-29 05:51:41 PM

Ryan2065: The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.

I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.


That's how I read it -- and it seems reasonable. It should be legal, but obviously it *is* a drug and needs to be treated with some degree of respect just like alcohol or legal prescription pain meds.
 
2012-07-29 05:51:42 PM
I thought that was a given?
 
2012-07-29 05:52:07 PM
I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.
 
2012-07-29 05:53:25 PM

tomWright: Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe


Hey, the spiral Cheetos can be terribly dangerous if you OD on them. Which sucks, because I frekaing love the spiral Cheetos and will often binge on them, making my tummy hate me.

/dangerously cheesy
 
2012-07-29 05:53:38 PM

Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.

But holy fark this entire weed prohibition bullshiat is ridiculous, costs money, ruins lives, and has absolutely no positive side-effects to go along with it. Who the fark still thinks this is a good idea?


And alcohol and cigarettes don't do these same things?
 
2012-07-29 05:53:52 PM
Getting high leads to telling longwinded pointless stories and engineering bongs out of anything your stoned mind can conceive from tools at hand.
 
2012-07-29 05:53:53 PM
I got my OrIgone magical Mariana card back on...what happen to the snacks?
 
2012-07-29 05:54:29 PM

Ryan2065: The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.

I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.


This.

/wishes people would stop needing drugs to enjoy their lives.
//particularly after watching other people either
a) die of diseases (like cancer) when they desperately wanted to live
b) forced to take meds so their brains to work *right* for once.
 
2012-07-29 05:54:51 PM

Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.

But holy fark this entire weed prohibition bullshiat is ridiculous, costs money, ruins lives, and has absolutely no positive side-effects to go along with it. Who the fark still thinks this is a good idea?


The prisons who profit from having every weed smoker locked away for two to five years.
 
2012-07-29 05:54:53 PM

Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.


That's spinach you're smoking then.
 
2012-07-29 05:55:49 PM
marijuana is, in fact, a drug that impairs judgment and shouldn't be treated lightly, just like alcohol

Citation needed.
 
2012-07-29 05:56:14 PM
One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot
 
2012-07-29 05:56:55 PM
farm4.staticflickr.com

Its a plant... Legalize it...
 
2012-07-29 05:56:56 PM
Wait, is subby saying that the media doesn't want you to know that marijuana is a drug?
 
2012-07-29 05:57:15 PM

Fano: Getting high leads to telling longwinded pointless stories and engineering bongs out of anything your stoned mind can conceive from tools at hand.


I built a bong into my acoustic guitar, hows that multi-tasking corporate America?
 
2012-07-29 05:57:24 PM
The really embarrassing thing is that subby is very likely a flaming liberal in most political threads.

Most righties don't give a f*ck about pot legalization. It really rustles the jimmies of some of our more liberal-than-thou posters, though. I guess I should find that funny or something.
 
2012-07-29 05:57:52 PM

Mr. Eugenides: Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.

That's spinach you're smoking then.


"I'm strong to da finich, cause I smokes me spinach."

/several times Popeye did eat his spinach through his pipe
 
2012-07-29 05:57:58 PM
Ever notice how the media always shows and interviews the biggest freaks at every pro-marijuana rally to make them appear to be fringe and dangerous?
 
2012-07-29 05:58:13 PM

OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot


Obviously.
 
2012-07-29 06:01:18 PM

whidbey: Most righties don't give a f*ck about pot legalization.


They should if they want to cut government waste like they say they do.
 
2012-07-29 06:01:36 PM
I just don't think cannabis impairs in a like manner to alcohol. High doses are a little unpleasant, so one just eases up. Only through oral administration, and even then only with effort, does it seem possible to become anything like drunk.
 
2012-07-29 06:02:02 PM
I wish it was as easy to get it here in New York State as it is in California. I am on 17 different scips for various problems, all resulting in pain that could take down a rhino. Pot has fewer side effects than the meds I am on. They have to check my liver, kidneys and lungs every month by testing my blood. I also have Glaucoma, and take 3 different eye drops 2 a day. I also liked the way it made me feel, with not hangover in the morning. Of course, there is the munchies. My weight may suffer (I mean more then it has already). GIVE ME POT!
 
2012-07-29 06:02:22 PM

Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.


Tell us about these problems.
 
2012-07-29 06:03:27 PM
Nice trolling headline, subby.

Some of my best decisions are made after a generous application of THC.

My worst decisions? All under the influence of booze.

That's why I quit drinking booze and dialed the reefer madness up to 11.
 
2012-07-29 06:03:35 PM
I never understood the "It's a plant, it's natural and therefore is safe" mindset. poison ivy is a plant, would you smoke that?

That said, it's plainly obvious that pot is not a problem warranting militarization of our police force to save us. More lives are lost with our current policies then from the substance itself. Indeed, the solution is worse than the problem.

I have smoked plenty of dope in my life but do not use it these days or years. I don't care if you do, nor do I care if anyone does, however I would prefer those dollars go to official GDP instead of going to thug culture gangsters, cartel killers, banks and crooked politicians.

We can grow lettuce and broccoli in this country for less than a dollar a pound, but pot is greater than $50 per ounce for the shiattiest mexi-brick. It's stupid. Legalize it, let the market sort it out.
 
2012-07-29 06:04:22 PM
1. Cannabis use is associated with lower mortality risk in patients with psychotic disorders

Well duh, the drug takes away your ambition, makes you lazy.
 
2012-07-29 06:04:23 PM

davidphogan: whidbey: Most righties don't give a f*ck about pot legalization.

They should if they want to cut government waste like they say they do.


What I mean is that you're likely to get more pro-legalization arguments out of them these days, and the only derp I've heard about how bad pot is tends to be from some self-righteous overzealous liberal.
 
2012-07-29 06:04:42 PM
Subby:

i202.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-29 06:06:38 PM

Makh: 4. Cannabis use is associated with only marginal increases in traffic accident risk

Bill Hicks: Say you get in a car accident and you've been smoking pot? You're only going 4 miles an hour. ::Crashhh:: "shiat we hit something." "Forgot to open the garage door, dude." "We got to get the garage door open so Domino's knows we're home!"


Sounds like the guy across the street that sometimes drives through my yard before he makes the turn.
 
2012-07-29 06:06:47 PM

Ryan2065: The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.

I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.


Well, marijuana is already being treated far more harshly than alcohol (at least in the US), so that would be a pretty redundant observation at this point.
 
2012-07-29 06:07:05 PM

OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot


No. We need an impairment test period. It doesn't have to be pot specific.

If you just drove your car into my house I personally do not care if you are drunk, have not slept in 30 hours, high on your prescription medicine, just took a bunch of off the shelf cold medicine or benadryl. The issue is impairment and the test should test for it. Determining specific levels of certain chemicals is just bullshiat.
 
2012-07-29 06:07:35 PM
Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!
 
2012-07-29 06:07:57 PM
Well said subby.

It's fine if someone wants to point out cannabis is not too dangerous. It's not OK to go overboard and do the same thing as the "bad guys."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_the_Whole_Mess
 
2012-07-29 06:08:30 PM

whidbey: What I mean is that you're likely to get more pro-legalization arguments out of them these days, and the only derp I've heard about how bad pot is tends to be from some self-righteous overzealous liberal.


In California the same groups who funded the anti-gay marriage thing were also funding anti prop 19 organizations, so I'd think you should pay more attention. Lots of fundies still think it's the devil's weed.
 
2012-07-29 06:09:15 PM
fark the market and fark the government. I should be able to grow it in the back yard next to the tomatoes.
 
2012-07-29 06:09:54 PM

muldoon: pot is greater than $50 per ounce for the shiattiest mexi-brick. It's stupid.


Uhhhhh, MUCH greater. $50 = 1/8oz. 1oz = $400, not including breaks for buying in bulk, which most street dealers will not do.

Mind you, those are dispensary/street prices in the area I'm currently living in. At the dispensary I used to work at in CO we were letting eights go for $25 and zips go for $200. we were an exception, though.

YMMV
 
2012-07-29 06:11:36 PM
Subby is partially right, pot is a drug and can impair your judgement. Although the effects are different. And no you are not as capable of driving as a sober person is. You are wrong.

/Go ahead get baked for all I care. Just stay away from the wheel while you are high thank you.
 
2012-07-29 06:11:45 PM

muldoon: No. We need an impairment test period. It doesn't have to be pot specific.

If you just drove your car into my house I personally do not care if you are drunk, have not slept in 30 hours, high on your prescription medicine, just took a bunch of off the shelf cold medicine or benadryl. The issue is impairment and the test should test for it. Determining specific levels of certain chemicals is just bullshiat.


Why bother with that? Why not punish the guy driving his car into your house with the same punishment regardless of any circumstances beyond, "I was dodging that meteor" or "I was dodging your kid."
 
2012-07-29 06:12:30 PM

davidphogan: whidbey: Most righties don't give a f*ck about pot legalization.

They should if they want to cut government waste like they say they do.


But they like having people to feel superior to.
 
2012-07-29 06:13:19 PM
Marijuana inappropriately touched me at summer camp.
 
2012-07-29 06:13:39 PM
The only reason I don't want it legalized is because I know I wont be able to walk through the park or the halls of my apartment building or sit in a restaurant or pretty much go anywhere without having to smell the sickening stench of that crap. People will overuse it and there will be clouds of the stink seeping in everywhere.
 
2012-07-29 06:14:14 PM
Because ganja tar is purer than cigarette tar...
 
2012-07-29 06:14:45 PM

OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot


Actually we need something that measures impairment, unlike BAC.
 
2012-07-29 06:15:19 PM
Marijuana should be legalized and taxed, the same as alcohol and cigs. Not only would it bring in millions of dollars for the state and federal governments, it would eliminate a large subset of crime, both violent and non, and free up our prison and penal system from thousands of frivolous cases each year.

But, that said, let's not pretend that Marijuana is completely harmless. It has the same level of harm as long-term tobacco use. And you really don't want to use it if you're schizophrenic.
 
2012-07-29 06:15:35 PM

Wolf892: The only reason I don't want it legalized is because I know I wont be able to walk through the park or the halls of my apartment building or sit in a restaurant or pretty much go anywhere without having to smell the sickening stench of that crap. People will overuse it and there will be clouds of the stink seeping in everywhere.


Because smoking hasn't been banned in many public establishments? Settle down.
 
2012-07-29 06:15:49 PM
Wolf892: having to smell the sickening stench of that crap.

Good weed smells good.


InflamedGonads: Because ganja tar is purer than cigarette tar...

There are many ways to consume the marijuana.
 
2012-07-29 06:15:58 PM
I remember i fought that guy who was way too big for me when I was high. I also beat up my wife. I hit my kid a couple times with the belt as well, and swerved all over the road nearly killing an innocent family. Then I called up my ex and bawled for a half hour.

/Submitter is a dumbass
 
2012-07-29 06:16:32 PM
AndreMA: Actually we need something that measures impairment, unlike BAC.

BAC does a pretty good job of measuring impairment, actually, among a large subset of the population. There's always going to be exceptions to the rule, but it's a good general guide.

/Woohoo! Drunk Driving apologist thread!
 
2012-07-29 06:16:34 PM
The pro-marijuana crowd really hurts its argument for legalization with some of their more outlandish claims.

Just say that its net effect is about the same as alcohol (better in some areas, worse in others) and you'll get much more sympathy.

/helping chemo patients I buy
//glaucoma is really pushing it
///very pro-legalization
 
2012-07-29 06:16:39 PM
I hate pot. You know what I hate more? The government wasting my money going after people who smoke pot. It's none of their god damn business.
 
2012-07-29 06:17:10 PM
Pot is legal here in Denver, so I'm getting a kick out of these comments.
 
2012-07-29 06:17:13 PM

whidbey: marijuana is, in fact, a drug that impairs judgment and shouldn't be treated lightly, just like alcohol

Citation needed.


What's there to dispute? As I understand it, impairing your judgment is part of the point. Again, just like alcohol.

/I don't do pot, but legalize it ffs.
 
2012-07-29 06:18:19 PM

Sargun: Who the fark still thinks this is a good idea?


Prison lobbyists, cops that want an easy revenue stream, DAs that want easy cases to make a name for themselves, and judges that want an easy way to look "tough on crime" by locking a kid up for years as punishment for a digression that is no worse than getting their hands on a 6-pack of shiatty beer.
 
2012-07-29 06:18:53 PM

signaljammer: I just don't think cannabis impairs in a like manner to alcohol. High doses are a little unpleasant, so one just eases up. Only through oral administration, and even then only with effort, does it seem possible to become anything like drunk.


You need a better dealer. Or to cut back your use to lower your tolerance. You can absolutely be impaired by marijuana. The sensation is very different from being drunk but it can certainly be powerful enough to be disorienting.
 
2012-07-29 06:19:39 PM

Wolf892: The only reason I don't want it legalized is because I know I wont be able to walk through the park or the halls of my apartment building or sit in a restaurant or pretty much go anywhere without having to smell the sickening stench of that crap. People will overuse it and there will be clouds of the stink seeping in everywhere.


5 mins after it's legalized

media.funlol.com
 
2012-07-29 06:19:42 PM

Sargun: It's not a wonder drug


Actually, if you're being relativistic, it is certainly a wonder drug. It has a wider variety of internal uses than pretty much anything on the market (pharmaceuticals tend to be for specific ailments, and many of which cause side effects that are potentially much worse than forgetting where the car keys went or eating too much ice cream; not to mention, many natural alternatives work on the placebo effect, and those that don't generally again fall into a specific use category), can be absorbed through nearly any conceivable method (smoke inhalation, eating, processed for rubbing into skin, etc). I mean, if that isn't a "wonder drug," what CAN be?

No, marijuana doesn't fix "everything." That's stupid, and the 1% of potheads that make that argument are stupid. Of course, they were stupid WITHOUT the weed...
 
2012-07-29 06:19:42 PM
I've never smoked pot.

that said, Make it legal!!!
 
2012-07-29 06:19:53 PM

Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.


Naw... You just got older
 
2012-07-29 06:20:06 PM

muldoon: I would prefer those dollars go to official GDP instead of going to thug culture gangsters, cartel killers, banks and crooked politicians.


Whatever your standpoint on stopping people getting cheap clean drugs of their choice in an informed, safe, and legal manner I`m sure we can all agree that the money should not go to organised crime.
 
2012-07-29 06:20:17 PM

D_Evans45: I remember i fought that guy who was way too big for me when I was high. I also beat up my wife. I hit my kid a couple times with the belt as well, and swerved all over the road nearly killing an innocent family. Then I called up my ex and bawled for a half hour.

/Submitter is a dumbass


Or you have something going on upstairs that needs to be addressed?
 
2012-07-29 06:20:48 PM

ultraholland: Wolf892: having to smell the sickening stench of that crap.

Good weed smells good.


InflamedGonads: Because ganja tar is purer than cigarette tar...

There are many ways to consume the marijuana.


Nope it doesn't. It all smells like a skunk farted a blood dump onto a pile of dead crack babies.
Other than that I don't have anything against it.
 
2012-07-29 06:21:06 PM

jshine: Ryan2065: The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.

I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.

That's how I read it -- and it seems reasonable. It should be legal, but obviously it *is* a drug and needs to be treated with some degree of respect just like alcohol or legal prescription pain meds.


Yes, with you on that one. I agree that it does require SOME restrictions - I wouldn't want my 12 year old to be able to legally purchase and carry (and consume) marijuana. I also do believe there are some people to whom it can exacerbate existing mental health issues. Unlike the pot of my youth, the evidence is there that the current marijuana will cause psychosis in people already prone to psychosis. I also am against providing anything to the growing brain that is likely to cause impairment. I would also not want to give my 12 year old a bottle of vodka or a pack o smokes.

The one study quotes suggests that the mortality rate is lower for people with psychotic symptoms who smoke marijuana. Maybe so, but a lot better research needs to be done on that one before I "prescribe" pot for my sometimes psychotic 20 year old! More work to be done on that one.

The rest of the article is an "uh-huh, of course" situation. I really don't see the point of incarcerating ANY drug users, unless they are breaking other laws., and support decriminalization of drugs in general, and perhaps legalization.

I really don't understand arresting ANYBODY for possession. The local cops here in the Hammer seem to think it's a way to get the undesirables out of downtown (shake em down and see if any bud falls out so you can arrest them, and get them outta there for a day or 2), but I really don't understand JAILING people for possession. What a waste of societal resources!!
 
2012-07-29 06:21:38 PM
Can cannabis use quell thoughts of suicide? Not a chance, claim the mainstream media and the Drug Czar . But a little-noticed discussion paper published this past February by the Institute for the Study of Labor in Bonn, Germany provides dramatic evidence to the contrary.

Explanation: marijuana users never get off the couch and do ANYTHING, even kill themselves.
 
2012-07-29 06:21:54 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Sargun: Who the fark still thinks this is a good idea?

Prison lobbyists, cops that want an easy revenue stream, DAs that want easy cases to make a name for themselves, and judges that want an easy way to look "tough on crime" by locking a kid up for years as punishment for a digression that is no worse than getting their hands on a 6-pack of shiatty beer.


And politicians whose constituents take Reefer Madness seriously.
 
2012-07-29 06:22:38 PM
Common sense reasons why all this is true:

1. Pot calms you down, hence, if you're psycho, you probably remain psycho, but less overtly and at less harm to yourself and others.
2. Calmer psychos don't kill themselves. Plus, if you're freaked about your third pot arrest, you'd be less likely to kill yourself if you weren't looking at felony time
3. People don't chain-smoke joints like they do cigarettes, ergo, pot smokers don't do the damage to their lungs that cigarette smokers do.
4. Old cop anecdote: A drunk blows through a stop sign, a pothead sits and waits for it turn green. The only accidents potheads are likely to get into is being hit from behind by the furious drunk who's mad they're going so slow.
5. Doctors decided which other drugs should be Schedule I; Congress decided on marijuana.
 
2012-07-29 06:22:40 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Prison lobbyists, cops that want an easy revenue stream, DAs that want easy cases to make a name for themselves, and judges that want an easy way to look "tough on crime" by locking a kid up for years as punishment for a digression that is no worse than getting their hands on a 6-pack of shiatty beer.


So, we have solved all other minor crime? **eyeroll.jpg**
 
2012-07-29 06:22:42 PM

Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.

But holy fark this entire weed prohibition bullshiat is ridiculous, costs money, ruins lives, and has absolutely no positive side-effects to go along with it. Who the fark still thinks this is a good idea?


I'm a lot less of an uptight prick on weed so Fark will benefit greatly, just peruse my post from near Halloween of last year when we were in Amsterdam to see evidence of this fact.

If I could smoke one after work every day I'm sure my stress levels would be almost zero.
 
2012-07-29 06:22:42 PM
I've never tried it.

That being said, legalize the stuff! Treat it like beer, or wine, tax it, over 18, at home or in "coffee shops". This country is so bass ackwards.
 
2012-07-29 06:23:09 PM

pxlboy: Wolf892: The only reason I don't want it legalized is because I know I wont be able to walk through the park or the halls of my apartment building or sit in a restaurant or pretty much go anywhere without having to smell the sickening stench of that crap. People will overuse it and there will be clouds of the stink seeping in everywhere.

Because smoking hasn't been banned in many public establishments? Settle down.


Doesn't help the apartment situation, or people walking around with it in their clothing, or at the parks. Its stench gets everywhere and I shouldn't have to be nauseated by it.
 
2012-07-29 06:23:45 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2012-07-29 06:23:46 PM

muldoon: I never understood the "It's a plant, it's natural and therefore is safe" mindset. poison ivy is a plant, would you smoke that?


t.qkme.me
 
2012-07-29 06:23:46 PM
Marijuana doesn't make you lazy. If you're already a lazy person, then you're just more likely to be lazy when you smoke pot. If you're an active person, then you're more likely to be active when you smoke pot. Try going amongst those who actively use the mountains a lot for manual(not motorized) recreation. Take a poll amongst avid hikers, mountain bikers, and climbers. About 70% of the ones that I've known enjoy smoking pot and doing their thing. Are hiking, mountain biking, and climbing lazy things to do? I think not.

The argument about it making you lazy reminds me of an old bigoted welder I know whose son turned into a pothead:

"He started smoking pot all the time and it made him useless." I just didn't have the heart to tell him that his son was already useless, but that was a convenient thing for him to blame it on.
 
2012-07-29 06:24:12 PM
i569.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-29 06:24:24 PM

Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.


How much stronger do you seems to have gotten, stranger?
 
2012-07-29 06:24:35 PM
www.cannabisculture.com

mutantreviewers.files.wordpress.com

I'm in favor of anything that gets Kristen Bell to strip down and wear interesting undergarments
 
2012-07-29 06:25:01 PM

tomWright: Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe


Agreed.
You would think it would be legal as soon as they figure out that they can regulate it like tobacco from ground to pipe, so to speak, and tax the hell out of it. There is too much money to be made for the government to ignore it, so you have to ask who/what is profiting from it's being kept illegal???

I'd like to see it delivered like pizza... don't want to get behind all of the extra extra slow drivers.
Cheetos overdose... that's too painful to contemplate.
 
2012-07-29 06:25:13 PM
Gyrfalcon: 1. Pot calms you down, hence, if you're psycho, you probably remain psycho, but less overtly and at less harm to yourself and others.

I had a certifiable girlfriend who went off the deep end when she smoked pot, so I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

cool anecdote?
 
2012-07-29 06:26:12 PM

muldoon: If you just drove your car into my house I personally do not care if you are drunk, have not slept in 30 hours, high on your prescription medicine, just took a bunch of off the shelf cold medicine or benadryl. The issue is impairment and the test should test for it. Determining specific levels of certain chemicals is just bullshiat.


THIS.

As someone whose former profession involved traffic safety, it's time we go with impairment testing and sliding scales for impairment. We should not be feeding monies to crooked cops and court systems.
 
2012-07-29 06:26:14 PM
Keep up the rationalizations you dirty hippies. It helps schizos. Ok, so? Are you a schizo? If not then no reason to use it. It purportedly reduces suicide rates. I am dubious and suspect this study is a case of confusing correlation and causation. Lets say its not though. Thinking of killing yourself right now? If not, then no need for the dope. Its not as problematic as cig smoke in the lungs. True enough. Its still much more destructive to the lungs then breathing clean air. This argument is like saying rape isnt as bad as murder. True enough, but it is not all that relevant of a point since that would not make you want to permit rape. Smoking weed is associated with only marginal increases in traffic risk. So is speeding, yet we outlaw that. The fact is it unncessesarily increases risk. Schedule I classification is a lie? What does that mean? Are you claiming it is not in fact a class I drug? We can go and look up how it is classified. Hey, lookie there. It says class I. Ok, I know, the intent was to state that it is not appropriately classifed. On that point I would agree, however, that does not make smoking it good for your health, the health of the general public, or the least bit necessary.
 
2012-07-29 06:26:17 PM

Wolf892: I shouldn't have to be nauseated by it.


I don't have to be nauseated by many perfumes. Or cigarettes. Or cigars.
Chill out, the world's not out to get you.
 
2012-07-29 06:26:18 PM

Gyrfalcon: 5. Doctors decided which other drugs should be Schedule I; Congress decided on marijuana.


Damned good point.
 
2012-07-29 06:26:27 PM

chaoswolf: fark the market and fark the government. I should be able to grow it in the back yard next to the tomatoes.


Homer got Tomaco ... What would you get?
 
2012-07-29 06:26:33 PM

ultraholland: Gyrfalcon: 1. Pot calms you down, hence, if you're psycho, you probably remain psycho, but less overtly and at less harm to yourself and others.

I had a certifiable girlfriend who went off the deep end when she smoked pot, so I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

cool anecdote?


Unfortunately, a too true anecdote as I have seen it happen with my son when he was in a similar situation.
 
2012-07-29 06:28:19 PM
I don't see why marijuana making you a bit lazy is such a favorite argument for the anti-weed crowd. For starters, it doesn't make you so lazy you just waste away on your couch. I still manage to get up and go to work every day, pay my bills, and easily contribute to society. The only difference is when I get home instead of a beer and ESPN, I roll a joint and watch cartoon network.

Plus, I suspect if more people would just chill out and smoke a bowl, then maybe we'd all stop killing eachother.
 
2012-07-29 06:28:32 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!lost taxes.


FTFY

It cant be regulated, therefore it wont be legalized. the one thing alcohol and tobacco have in common are that they involve specialized, mechanized, curing and refining processes. This makes it incredibly easy to regulate and tax wholly. Taxing mary jane would be on the honor system.
 
2012-07-29 06:29:07 PM

D_Evans45: I remember i fought that guy who was way too big for me when I was high. I also beat up my wife. I hit my kid a couple times with the belt as well, and swerved all over the road nearly killing an innocent family. Then I called up my ex and bawled for a half hour.

/Submitter is a dumbass


Couldn't have been high off weed and if you were then it was laced with something
 
2012-07-29 06:29:40 PM

Wolf892: The only reason I don't want it legalized is because I know I wont be able to walk through the park or the halls of my apartment building or sit in a restaurant or pretty much go anywhere without having to smell the sickening stench of that crap. People will overuse it and there will be clouds of the stink seeping in everywhere.


Yea, I can't go out at all anymore because of the rampant cigarette smoke polluting the air

/Moron
 
2012-07-29 06:29:55 PM

jshine: Ryan2065: The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.

I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.

That's how I read it -- and it seems reasonable. It should be legal, but obviously it *is* a drug and needs to be treated with some degree of respect just like alcohol or legal prescription pain meds.


Bathroom breaks notwithstanding, you can kill yourself in one night drinking or taking prescription meds without leaving your couch (except for bathroom breaks). Impossible to do with pot.

As a taxi driver, I'd rather give potheads a ride than drunks. The potheads are never belligerent and never puke in the back seat.
 
2012-07-29 06:29:57 PM

Jackal_N: tomWright: Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe

Agreed.
You would think it would be legal as soon as they figure out that they can regulate it like tobacco from ground to pipe, so to speak, and tax the hell out of it. There is too much money to be made for the government to ignore it, so you have to ask who/what is profiting from it's being kept illegal???

I'd like to see it delivered like pizza... don't want to get behind all of the extra extra slow drivers.
Cheetos overdose... that's too painful to contemplate.


You don't ask much. Mary Jane is super-easy to grow. Anyone who was interested in doing so could easily grow all they need. Easy to grow means no revenue stream from taxes. There's therefore less financial incentive for deregulation.
 
2012-07-29 06:30:06 PM
The use of cannabis does not impair motor skills, which has been proven in the laboratory.

So does the fact many brilliant music solos have been recorded by people under the influence.

Cannibis will in fact have a soporific effect on some people, not all; but the notion that a person who is driving stoned is "impaired" is absurd. The impairment usually comes from taking other drugs in conjunction; smoking grass and drinkng as well is a good example.

I do not advise this, but I am aware of many people who have flown high--powered jets while under the influence.
 
2012-07-29 06:30:12 PM
Many people die from alcohol use. Nobody dies from marijuana use.
People die from alcohol overdoses. There has never been a fatal marijuana overdose.
Alcohol use damages the brain. Marijuana use does not.
The health-related costs associated with alcohol use far exceed those for marijuana use.
Alcohol use is linked to cancer. Marijuana use is not.
Alcohol is more addictive than marijuana.
Alcohol use increases the risk of injury to the consumer. Marijuana use does not.
Alcohol use contributes to aggressive and violent behavior. Marijuana use does not.
Alcohol use is a major factor in violent crimes. Marijuana use is not.
Alcohol use contributes to the likelihood of domestic abuse and sexual assault. Marijuana use does not.

//citation; http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

/Eat a cock trollmitter.
 
2012-07-29 06:30:16 PM

D_Evans45: I remember i fought that guy who was way too big for me when I was high. I also beat up my wife. I hit my kid a couple times with the belt as well, and swerved all over the road nearly killing an innocent family. Then I called up my ex and bawled for a half hour.

/Submitter is a dumbass


Wait... I took the bait... Such obvious trolling ..
 
2012-07-29 06:30:39 PM

Wolf892: ultraholland: Wolf892: having to smell the sickening stench of that crap.

Good weed smells good.


InflamedGonads: Because ganja tar is purer than cigarette tar...

There are many ways to consume the marijuana.

Nope it doesn't. It all smells like a skunk farted a blood dump onto a pile of dead crack babies.
Other than that I don't have anything against it.


Only.shiat weed.smells that bad, tell your neighbors to quit.smoking.Mexican dirt weed.
 
2012-07-29 06:30:48 PM
It definitely has it's share of negative side effects, especially with frequent use, but loss of judgement just isn't one of them.
 
2012-07-29 06:30:57 PM
www.bc.edu

Don't worry, Socrates, it's just a plant.


/Anti-prohibition
//But the "just a plant" argument is overly simplistic
 
2012-07-29 06:31:39 PM

Tax Boy: [www.cannabisculture.com image 240x300]

[mutantreviewers.files.wordpress.com image 250x376]

I'm in favor of anything that gets Kristen Bell to strip down and wear interesting undergarments


Holy cow, I knew she was cross-eyed, but I never realized HOW cross-eyed!
 
2012-07-29 06:31:41 PM

BronyMedic: It has the same level of harm as long-term tobacco use. And you really don't want to use it if you're schizophrenic.


Well, MAYBE (and I don't necessarily believe this is accurate because the chemical content of the plants differs, but I'll cede this one) natural tobacco, but not the crap that's laced with chemicals, stuffed in a paper tube that's laced with chemicals, and sold in a box at the local supermarket.

As far as the schizophrenia thing goes, it depends on the marijuana and the person. In many ways, I could see how it helps more people on a daily basis than it harms, BUT the problem comes with the fact that there are enough people whose psychoses and schizophrenic episodes are greatly exacerbated with pot, and those are the people we hear about because they, you know, shoot up a movie theater and the like.
 
2012-07-29 06:32:45 PM
The continued illegality of pot is the surest sign that we are NOT living in some sort of wacky conspiracy universe.

No self-respecting cabal of shadowy powers would keep something illegal that makes the populace docile and eager to consume.
 
2012-07-29 06:33:14 PM

TiiiMMMaHHH: It cant be regulated, therefore it wont be legalized. the one thing alcohol and tobacco have in common are that they involve specialized, mechanized, curing and refining processes. This makes it incredibly easy to regulate and tax wholly. Taxing mary jane would be on the honor system.


I'm not sure growing your own weed is different from my homebrew hard cider. I can brew X amount, and I can't sell it, or I'm commiting a crime. I could probably go over that limit for a while, but I could conceivably get caught. More likely my GF would turn me in. She's not a huge fan 'o the press.
 
2012-07-29 06:33:15 PM

Evil Canadian: ultraholland: Gyrfalcon: 1. Pot calms you down, hence, if you're psycho, you probably remain psycho, but less overtly and at less harm to yourself and others.

I had a certifiable girlfriend who went off the deep end when she smoked pot, so I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

cool anecdote?

Unfortunately, a too true anecdote as I have seen it happen with my son when he was in a similar situation.


If they had a true mental health issues anything or situation could have triggered an incident, from burnt toast to a direction confrontation. Cannabis use just makes an easy scapegoat.
 
2012-07-29 06:33:32 PM

SpeedyBB: Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.

How much stronger do you seems to have gotten, stranger?


Considerably. This is the major problem. Without legalization and regulation, the customer has NO facts or data to judge there desired effect. I, and most other adults, do not want to drink Everclear because it is just too strong with out enough benefits, like taste. Most smokers do no want to be glued to the floor off one toke/rip/hit but when you do not have a choice of products when buying you have no idea what you are getting. Want to support America and not Mexican gangs? Too bad. You just cannot know where the herb comes from or even if it is laced with anything.

Not even clubs can really know as a lot of grey-area paperwork can be easily forged when dealing with such touchy, unregulated substance.

/Who the fark has to certify their girlfriend? What kind of sick country do you live in.
 
2012-07-29 06:34:03 PM

Ryan2065: I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.


Makes sense to me.

Plenty of things that are slightly bad for ya are legal and restricted, this can easily be another. IF we let people drink beer, I don't see why we can't let them smoke pot.

If pot makes you lazy, so what? Responsible people can wait to smoke up until after their work for the day is done, exactly how responsible drinkers wait until after work to crack open that first beer.
 
2012-07-29 06:34:27 PM

Evil Canadian: ultraholland: Gyrfalcon: 1. Pot calms you down, hence, if you're psycho, you probably remain psycho, but less overtly and at less harm to yourself and others.

I had a certifiable girlfriend who went off the deep end when she smoked pot, so I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

cool anecdote?

Unfortunately, a too true anecdote as I have seen it happen with my son when he was in a similar situation.


Not an anecdote, merely a wild overgeneralization. I've known plenty of genuine psychos who had a much easier time of it ON pot than off. Your mileage may vary. It was just a common-sense reason why the author's claim MIGHT be true.

I suspect that, if an actual study could be done, we would find that bipolar individuals might well be helped by pot, and schizophrenics would not; or vice versa; but until doctors can do actual studies in psychiatric hospitals, this will remain conjecture. Which is sad, because think how much better life for people with refractory depression or psychotic mania would be if they could just eat a couple pot cookies and get through their day.
 
2012-07-29 06:35:22 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-07-29 06:35:28 PM
I remember a study done AFAIK in New South Wales in Australia. They looked at car accidents and what drugs if any each driver was on. What they found with weed was that it made you more likely to be involved in an accident but less likely for that accident to be your fault. I remember you were less likely to cause an accident driving stoned than someone totally sober...

Mind you, it seems to make you a bit oblivious to dangers.
 
2012-07-29 06:35:45 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.


That worked so well last time...
 
2012-07-29 06:37:36 PM

AndreMA: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

Actually we need something that measures impairment, unlike BAC.


The police could check what music you're listening to when you get pulled over.
Pink Floyd or Bob Marley is a fine, Sublime will get you arrested, and Monster Magnet gets you a police escort to your destination.
 
2012-07-29 06:37:59 PM

Explodo: Marijuana doesn't make you lazy. If you're already a lazy person, then you're just more likely to be lazy when you smoke pot. If you're an active person, then you're more likely to be active when you smoke pot. Try going amongst those who actively use the mountains a lot for manual(not motorized) recreation. Take a poll amongst avid hikers, mountain bikers, and climbers. About 70% of the ones that I've known enjoy smoking pot and doing their thing. Are hiking, mountain biking, and climbing lazy things to do? I think not.

The argument about it making you lazy reminds me of an old bigoted welder I know whose son turned into a pothead:

"He started smoking pot all the time and it made him useless." I just didn't have the heart to tell him that his son was already useless, but that was a convenient thing for him to blame it on.


I've been saying this for decades, after my own dive through the drug scene. If all pot was magically disappeared from the planet, the people who are lazy potheads would remain lazy; they just couldn't blame it on the pot. Shiftless people will always find a way to remain shiftless; it's in their blood.
 
2012-07-29 06:38:28 PM

fireclown: TiiiMMMaHHH: It cant be regulated, therefore it wont be legalized. the one thing alcohol and tobacco have in common are that they involve specialized, mechanized, curing and refining processes. This makes it incredibly easy to regulate and tax wholly. Taxing mary jane would be on the honor system.

I'm not sure growing your own weed is different from my homebrew hard cider. I can brew X amount, and I can't sell it, or I'm commiting a crime. I could probably go over that limit for a while, but I could conceivably get caught. More likely my GF would turn me in. She's not a huge fan 'o the press.


You are wrong. It really doesn't take much good weed to get a really good buzz on. A single person using an efficient system(bong) can spend a good evening high on about a teaspoon of good stuff, a tablespoon if you're really getting ripped all night. On the other hand, for a person to spend an evening with a good buzz on with alcohol takes significantly more, and a lot more to be ripped all night. It's easy to drink up a homebrew batch really quickly. If you're running 10 well-kept plants, you'll get plenty pretty easily.
 
2012-07-29 06:38:46 PM
"A widow and her four children have been driven insane by eating the Marihuana plant, and one of those children grew up to be
Michele Bachmann, and now you know the rest of the story."
 
2012-07-29 06:38:47 PM
muldoon:
No. We need an impairment test period. It doesn't have to be pot specific.

If you just drove your car into my house I personally do not care if you are drunk, have not slept in 30 hours, high on your prescription medicine, just took a bunch of off the shelf cold medicine or benadryl. The issue is impairment and the test should test for it. Determining specific levels of certain chemicals is just bullshiat.


This is far, far too much wisdom in this post. And common sense. And truth.
 
2012-07-29 06:38:48 PM

TiiiMMMaHHH: It cant be regulated, therefore it wont be legalized. the one thing alcohol and tobacco have in common are that they involve specialized, mechanized, curing and refining processes. This makes it incredibly easy to regulate and tax wholly. Taxing mary jane would be on the honor system.


Oregon's proposed Measure 80 (on the ballot in November) allows people to grow their own marijuana (and, obviously, without tax). DISTRIBUTION is a different animal (regulation exists, and sellers need to be licensed), and should be considered as such. I think the proposal, at least in those respects, is the best of both worlds.

Sure, there will be people who grow pot and sell it to their buddies (just like people usually don't pay taxes on garage sales), but that's STILL going to be a net gain for the government compared to today.
 
2012-07-29 06:39:05 PM

Weaver95: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

read that one again: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

you cannot argue with these facts. this has been scientifically proven - cannabis does not meet the requirements of Schedule I. you MUST accept this fact, you have no choice in the matter. And once you do admit to the facts involved...then the entire argument against legalization falls apart.


It was put on the Schedule not for medical risk, but financial. Purely financial, since the paper industry really didn't like the idea of cheap hemp paper. Not with being heavily invested in timber. Since then, it has been kept there to bolster police budgets, to up conviction rates, keep prison industry revenues up, and make "tough on crime" folks look better.

There are industries that would suffer terribly if marijuana were legalized. Paper and cotton would take a hit. Lawyers and those invested in the justice system for their silvers would take a hit. States would see convictions go down, and that would make a lot of politicians' schemes to build up a story of how we HAVE to crack down on certain types turn to lies.

It would have benefits. State budgets for law enforcement could actually go to chasing violent criminals. The DEA could focus on dangerous drugs, and turn over marijuana over as a tax issue. Prison populations would go down, and that would save the taxpayers a fair amount, which actually could then go to other projects, and ease budgets across the nation. Industries could then invest in applications for hemp and hemp related products, which would be a whole NEW industry, and inject a lot of capital into the markets. It would bolster entrepreneurs, and some of the growers who are now looking to hide their cash, might actually see not just a solid return, but even find investors, as well as become consultants to the nascent companies formed, and craft growers would spring up across the nation.

It is asinine to keep at this, especially given how the whole thing got started. Hemp and marijuana were competitors to industries that had deep enough pockets to buy off their Congresscritters. Heck, the reasoning keeps changing. Dangerous narcotic that caused folks to go kill crazy, to too apathetic to fight our wars. More addictive than heroin, and no medical value, to so inoffensive that it wouldn't have any value.

It boils down to a simple fact: certain interests have don't want market competition, and industries have sprung up to assist the efforts to KEEP marijuana illegal. And it's asinine. We waste a huge amount of money interdicting and chasing down growers and users, and use marijuana as an excuse to bust people, when most cops don't really care, so long as folks keep it down, and stay off the road.

I don't smoke the stuff--I prefer tobacco and alcohol personally--but I don't care what people do in their own homes. We can save a lot of taxpayer cash, and promote new entrepreneurs. It makes financial sense to end this mess. Not for some, and holding the nation back for the benefit of a few is what this has done.
 
2012-07-29 06:40:18 PM
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.

/Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
 
2012-07-29 06:41:02 PM

Weaver95: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

read that one again: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

you cannot argue with these facts. this has been scientifically proven - cannabis does not meet the requirements of Schedule I. you MUST accept this fact, you have no choice in the matter. And once you do admit to the facts involved...then the entire argument against legalization falls apart.


Arbitrary classification is arbitrary. Agree with you on all tenets, though.
 
2012-07-29 06:41:37 PM
I agree: it shouldn't be taken lightly.

Treat it like alcohol, regulate and punish someone who gets high and goes out and melts down a bus load of nuns.

/Nun soup?
//yadda yadda, melting exaggeration, but should someone stoned out of their gourd cause some horrible incident because they didn't know any better, throw the book at them.
 
2012-07-29 06:42:14 PM

Weaver95: Ryan2065: The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.

I read the headline to mean marijuana legalization with some restrictions, like alcohol.

I could live with that.


As long as it makes sport shooting of meth users legal.
 
2012-07-29 06:43:19 PM

PirateKing: The continued illegality of pot is the surest sign that we are NOT living in some sort of wacky conspiracy universe.

No self-respecting cabal of shadowy powers would keep something illegal that makes the populace docile and eager to consume.


It's not shadowy powers. It's just a few industries and the folks who've sprung up to profit from its illegality. It isn't about controlling the populace, but cutting down on competition. It is the very opposite of a free market, which is why it chafes me so. It is about inculcating a Nanny State, and should be antithetical to any form of Republican stance, and yet, the strongest supporters are folks who on the R side of the aisle, because they get a strong boost from the folks who profit from its illegality.
 
2012-07-29 06:43:26 PM

elchip: [www.bc.edu image 850x553]

Don't worry, Socrates, it's just a plant.

/Anti-prohibition
//But the "just a plant" argument is overly simplistic


It was always: "Socrates, what is truth? Socrates, what is the nature of the good? Socrates, what should I order? Socrates, what are you having?" And not once did anyone ever say: "Socrates, hemlock is poison!"
 
2012-07-29 06:43:34 PM

Barbecue Bob: Many people die from alcohol use. Nobody dies from marijuana use.
People die from alcohol overdoses. There has never been a fatal marijuana overdose.
Alcohol use damages the brain. Marijuana use does not.
The health-related costs associated with alcohol use far exceed those for marijuana use.
Alcohol use is linked to cancer. Marijuana use is not.
Alcohol is more addictive than marijuana.
Alcohol use increases the risk of injury to the consumer. Marijuana use does not.
Alcohol use contributes to aggressive and violent behavior. Marijuana use does not.
Alcohol use is a major factor in violent crimes. Marijuana use is not.
Alcohol use contributes to the likelihood of domestic abuse and sexual assault. Marijuana use does not.

//citation; http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

/Eat a cock trollmitter.


The jury is still out on a number of those claims, particularly its carcinogenic properties and its effects on the brain.

It's not that easy to perform large-scale, controlled double-blind studies on something that's illegal in most countries.
 
2012-07-29 06:43:49 PM
I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.
 
2012-07-29 06:44:02 PM
I am a nicotine addict in recovery, 6404 days today, and I can assure you: the only medication I have ever found which will knock the edge off withdrawal pangs to where the average person can almost stand them is hemp: 250--500 MG at 2--4 hour intervals.

Nicotine is what "smack" wants to be when it grows up, and alcohol is nearly as addictive.

Figure out how much tax revenue would be lost on 50 million smokers and 70 million drunks, and you see for yourself why they don't want to legalize this stuff.
 
2012-07-29 06:45:06 PM

SpeedyBB: Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.

How much stronger do you seems to have gotten, stranger?


LOL

I could smoke a joint, by myself, back in the day, and be buzzed, but functional.
One good hit, nowadays, and I'm not getting out of the chair for a while.

/Sure as hell is cheaper than the mountain of blow I did between1982-2007
 
2012-07-29 06:45:51 PM

Wolf892: pxlboy: Wolf892: The only reason I don't want it legalized is because I know I wont be able to walk through the park or the halls of my apartment building or sit in a restaurant or pretty much go anywhere without having to smell the sickening stench of that crap. People will overuse it and there will be clouds of the stink seeping in everywhere.

Because smoking hasn't been banned in many public establishments? Settle down.

Doesn't help the apartment situation, or people walking around with it in their clothing, or at the parks. Its stench gets everywhere and I shouldn't have to be nauseated by it.


annahumphrey.com
 
2012-07-29 06:46:29 PM

hubiestubert: It is the very opposite of a free market


Remember, the "free market" is only "free" when it is allowed to create monopolization across all industries.

USA! USA! USA!

/incidentally you're the only person I think I have favorited on Fark
//so beam away for the rest of the day, you're popular!
 
2012-07-29 06:48:06 PM
Too many potheads are useless eaters.
 
2012-07-29 06:48:14 PM

apres_ski_god: chaoswolf: fark the market and fark the government. I should be able to grow it in the back yard next to the tomatoes.

Homer got Tomaco ... What would you get?


Tomatajuana.

To be honest, I would juice a bunch of it even without crossbreeding.
 
2012-07-29 06:48:50 PM

Explodo: Jackal_N: tomWright: Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe

Agreed.
You would think it would be legal as soon as they figure out that they can regulate it like tobacco from ground to pipe, so to speak, and tax the hell out of it. There is too much money to be made for the government to ignore it, so you have to ask who/what is profiting from it's being kept illegal???

I'd like to see it delivered like pizza... don't want to get behind all of the extra extra slow drivers.
Cheetos overdose... that's too painful to contemplate.

You don't ask much. Mary Jane is super-easy to grow. Anyone who was interested in doing so could easily grow all they need. Easy to grow means no revenue stream from taxes. There's therefore less financial incentive for deregulation.


Except that most people can't be bothered to water their houseplants, let alone put in the effort to grow good weed.

I agree with the beer homebrew comparison. You could, but why bother?
 
2012-07-29 06:48:50 PM

spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.



Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.
 
2012-07-29 06:49:41 PM

OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot


*sigh*

Yet again, this is attempting to solve the wrong problem.

When concerned about safety and things like DUI, this problem isn't "how much drug is this person currently on?", but "Do they have the necessary abilities to drive the car safely".

It doesn't matter the amount of THC, ethanol, or anything else the person might be using: if your reaction time, for example, is insufficient, you shouldn't be driving the damn car. Even better, not only is it future-proof against any other drug invented in the future, but this catches non-drug problems as well, such as the one that is probably the #1 issue on the highways right now: sleep deprivation.

If you've had a bunch of alcohol, but the test proves your abilities are still reasonable... meh. I'm not worried about you. If you've been up for 27 hours and starting to miss things like that stop sign over there, you're the actual danger.

It's probably even fairly simple and cheap to measure ability, too: if we can make a Nintendo DS for less than a couple hundred dollars, it shouldn't be more than that to make some sort of simulator that runs through a quick driving test.
 
2012-07-29 06:50:04 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!


I assure you that anyone can make alcohol.

As a home brewer with less than 6 months experience, i'm pretty sure that almost anyone can even make good alcoholic beverages.

Beer, wine, and mead are relatively difficult compared to just straight up hooch, too. If you feel like resorting to sugar water with some carrot puree and bread yeast and then distilling it on the stove, you can in fact do that and it will work.

With the right yeast and nutrient mix and the right fermentation conditions you can get a 20% alcohol beverage ready to drink in about 3 days.
 
2012-07-29 06:50:33 PM

ultraholland: Marijuana inappropriately touched me at summer camp.


You've got to be careful. For summertime fun, I recommend Acapulco Gold. Always, always stay away from the Sundusky Red.
 
2012-07-29 06:50:34 PM

Barbecue Bob: Many people die from alcohol use. Nobody dies from marijuana use.
People die from alcohol overdoses. There has never been a fatal marijuana overdose.
Alcohol use damages the brain. Marijuana use does not.
The health-related costs associated with alcohol use far exceed those for marijuana use.
Alcohol use is linked to cancer. Marijuana use is not.
Alcohol is more addictive than marijuana.
Alcohol use increases the risk of injury to the consumer. Marijuana use does not.
Alcohol use contributes to aggressive and violent behavior. Marijuana use does not.
Alcohol use is a major factor in violent crimes. Marijuana use is not.
Alcohol use contributes to the likelihood of domestic abuse and sexual assault. Marijuana use does not.

//citation; http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

/Eat a cock trollmitter.


Oh yeah, that website is a totally unbiased and credible source. Case closed, time to legalize it.
 
2012-07-29 06:51:42 PM

pdkl95: Even better, not only is it future-proof against any other drug invented in the future, but this catches non-drug problems as well, such as the one that is probably the #1 issue on the highways right now: sleep deprivation general inattentiveness.


/ftfy
//could have also gone with "old people"
 
2012-07-29 06:52:33 PM
screencrave.com

WE LOVE YOU, DRUGS!!!


/hotter than a Proto-Pipe after a once-around.
 
2012-07-29 06:52:37 PM

Asa Phelps: Captain_Ballbeard: Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!

I assure you that anyone can make alcohol.

As a home brewer with less than 6 months experience, i'm pretty sure that almost anyone can even make good alcoholic beverages.

Beer, wine, and mead are relatively difficult compared to just straight up hooch, too. If you feel like resorting to sugar water with some carrot puree and bread yeast and then distilling it on the stove, you can in fact do that and it will work.

With the right yeast and nutrient mix and the right fermentation conditions you can get a 20% alcohol beverage ready to drink in about 3 days.


But it'll likely taste like crap.
 
2012-07-29 06:53:27 PM

Too Pretty For Prison: You've got to be careful. For summertime fun, I recommend Acapulco Gold. Always, always stay away from the Sundusky Red.


Stay away from the Sandusky Pink, too.
 
2012-07-29 06:53:32 PM

BronyMedic: Marijuana should be legalized and taxed, the same as alcohol and cigs. Not only would it bring in millions of dollars for the state and federal governments, it would eliminate a large subset of crime, both violent and non, and free up our prison and penal system from thousands of frivolous cases each year.

But, that said, let's not pretend that Marijuana is completely harmless. It has the same level of harm as long-term tobacco use. And you really don't want to use it if you're schizophrenic.


Only the same long term effects if you smoke the same amount as cigarettes and that's pretty much impossible, most of my friends that smoke cigarettes go through a pack a day. If you can smoke 20 joints a day then you must be a God or Tommy Chong...
 
2012-07-29 06:54:12 PM
You people do understand that there is more than one kind of marijuana, right? Just like there are different kinds of roses and tomatoes?

There are over 14,000 strains of cannabis, each with its own unique effects, its own potency, its own smell and taste, and its own drawbacks.

Some strains will make you lazy. Some will make you hyper. Some help with pain, some with depression, some with nausea or spastic episodes. Some exacerbate these. Some smell great and some smell like shiat. I even know of a strain that is in development that doesn't get you high at all.

It isn't a wonder plant. It is a collection of over 14,000 different amazing plants with various effects that can make your symptoms better or worse depending on which you use.

Legalization will lead to some pretty awesome and thorough research being done, some of which is already getting underway in the MMJ community.


People need to get that.
 
2012-07-29 06:54:21 PM

Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.


Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked
 
2012-07-29 06:54:36 PM

fireclown: Gyrfalcon: 5. Doctors decided which other drugs should be Schedule I; Congress decided on marijuana.

Damned good point.


it's not the doctors business any more than the politicians what I choose to consume.
 
2012-07-29 06:55:16 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: So I take it from the headline that Subby supports alcohol prohibition.


This.
 
2012-07-29 06:56:06 PM

tomWright: Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe


Which is the dumbest argument ever.

Water has caused people to OD......so OUTLAW H2O!!!!!
 
2012-07-29 06:56:37 PM

Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.


The lessons of Prohibition are worth noting:

When alcohol was illegal, the mob got into it because it was fast, easy money. They ALSO were involved in narcotics, prostitution and gambling.

When gambling was illegal and alcohol wasn't, the mob dropped booze and shifted into gambling. Still pushing the whores and drugs.

When gambling became legal in Vegas, they shifted to selling overpriced booze and skimming profits; when the NGC stepped in, they dropped gambling and had to focus on drugs, hookers and strong-arming the unions.

Moral is: Racketeering orgs and gangs will always find ways to make money on whatever is illegal and easy. Make something legal, so that people don't need to come to them, and they'll have to shift to something else. But that's NOT a reason to keep things illegal. Sure, the cartels would have to switch to something else--they're selling pot and meth because it's easy and cheap. Make pot legal, and they'll have to find a new money generator. Why keep it easy for them, though? Make them find a new source and a new audience.
 
2012-07-29 06:56:47 PM

steamingpile: BronyMedic: Marijuana should be legalized and taxed, the same as alcohol and cigs. Not only would it bring in millions of dollars for the state and federal governments, it would eliminate a large subset of crime, both violent and non, and free up our prison and penal system from thousands of frivolous cases each year.

But, that said, let's not pretend that Marijuana is completely harmless. It has the same level of harm as long-term tobacco use. And you really don't want to use it if you're schizophrenic.

Only the same long term effects if you smoke the same amount as cigarettes and that's pretty much impossible, most of my friends that smoke cigarettes go through a pack a day. If you can smoke 20 joints a day then you must be a God or Tommy Chong...


People seem to ignore the fact that you can just eat it also. Make some nice chocolate chip cookies with good weed and they'll taste different, but they won't taste bad unless you don't like chocolate chip cookies to begin with. Eat a cookie or two and enjoy a nice buzz for several hours. Lungs saved!
 
2012-07-29 06:56:53 PM
I think of pot more like coffee than home brewed beer.

Everybody could easily do it themselves but they'll still pay for the convenience and variety.

Regardless, this shouldn't even be a discussion. There are no reasonable justifications for pot cultivation/distribution/usage to be illegal. Zero. Nil. Nada.
 
2012-07-29 06:57:03 PM

radarlove: There are over 14,000 strains of cannabis, each with its own unique effects, its own potency, its own smell and taste, and its own drawbacks.


A wonder genus, yes.

It will be a great day when a person can go to a doctor for their arthritic extremities and obtain a recommendation for the best strain available. It will open a potentially new market in the medical field, doctors whose expertise is marijuana prescription.
 
2012-07-29 06:57:33 PM

puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked


Scruffy believes in this company
 
2012-07-29 06:58:56 PM

Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.


Moonshining still exists.

It is a tax issue though. Those damn 'Revenoors!" who are hated up in the hills, are not out to get folks because they are producing illegal product, but avoiding the tax.

Drug dealers, a good number of them, will make a switch. To a smaller clientele. Others, will become new and entirely legal entrepreneurs. THAT is the real fear in the market. An influx of craft growers who will undercut industries.

Legal pot would drop the price, not make it grow. It would then become better to grow for distribution markets, and use *gasp* middlemen who would then assume the distribution costs for themselves. It would create ancillary markets and folks would adjust. Oddly enough, like the liquor industry has adjusted to craft brewers. Price points would be skewed from what they are now. Availability and quality would adjust prices accordingly. Growers would be able to declare said income. Boon for the states as well as the Fed. The IRS would be involved, and that would keep some folks growing illegally, but it would turn into a tax issue, not enforcement.
 
2012-07-29 06:59:13 PM

Gyrfalcon: , they dropped gambling and had to focus on drugs, hookers and strong-arming the unions.

Moral is: Racketeering orgs and gangs will always find ways to make money on whatever is illegal and easy. Make something legal, so that people don't need to come to them, and they'll have to shift to something else. But that's NOT a reason to keep things illegal. Sure, the cartels would have to switch to something else--they're selling pot and meth because it's easy and cheap. Make pot legal, and they'll have to find a new money generator. Why keep it easy for them, though? Make them find a new source and a new audience.


Maybe their next target would be the banking industry...

"Goldman Sachs CEO didn't pay his bill... collapse his kneecaps, Vinnie."
 
2012-07-29 06:59:16 PM

puffy999: pdkl95: Even better, not only is it future-proof against any other drug invented in the future, but this catches non-drug problems as well, such as the one that is probably the #1 issue on the highways right now: sleep deprivation general inattentiveness.

/ftfy
//could have also gone with "old people"


Sure.

Though those two groups have a huge overlap anyway.

/good point though -- we'd have to put some farmer's markets into the simulator...
 
2012-07-29 06:59:25 PM

pxlboy: puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked

Scruffy believes in this company


Why aren't you fixing the boiler?
 
2012-07-29 07:00:34 PM

Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.

So you admit that the potential tax revenue often claimed by those in favor of legalization are exaggerted at best, and complete nonsense at worst? And no, I'm not making a slippery slope argumet about weed leading to harder drugs. I'm arguing that harder drugs will become more pervasive since the former weed dealers will end up having to turn to something else to pay the bills.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.

 
2012-07-29 07:00:45 PM

Explodo: Asa Phelps: Captain_Ballbeard: Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!

I assure you that anyone can make alcohol.

As a home brewer with less than 6 months experience, i'm pretty sure that almost anyone can even make good alcoholic beverages.

Beer, wine, and mead are relatively difficult compared to just straight up hooch, too. If you feel like resorting to sugar water with some carrot puree and bread yeast and then distilling it on the stove, you can in fact do that and it will work.

With the right yeast and nutrient mix and the right fermentation conditions you can get a 20% alcohol beverage ready to drink in about 3 days.

But it'll likely taste like crap.


No worse than flavored vodka, depending on what you do with it. There are products that drop the fusels out of it, etc. There's a whole industry providing products to people who live in places where distillation is illegal but making wine or beer is not. Some are claiming that their yeast will go all the way to 23% alcohol with no distillation though they admit that it gets funkier the higher up you go.

If you are at all good at distilling it's not hard to get something close to everclear, and from there not hard at all to dilute it down to vodka strengths.

He didn't say that the general public can't make single malt scotch - because that shiat is hard to make right. What he said was that people can't make alcohol.

But if you just want to get a buzz on and you only want a neutral alcohol, which is what most people these days seem to want, it's way easy and requires minimal labor.
 
2012-07-29 07:02:55 PM

Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.


So you admit that the potential tax revenue often claimed by those in favor of legalization are exaggerted at best, and complete nonsense at worst? And no, I'm not making a slippery slope argumet about weed leading to harder drugs. I'm arguing that harder drugs will become more pervasive since the former weed dealers will end up having to turn to something else to pay the bills.
 
2012-07-29 07:03:46 PM
"I need a better dealer"

My shiat keeps a light and sticks to the wall. I know what weed is, I have been smoking it for thirty-seven years. That said no, it just cannot impair one the way an over-exposure to ethanol can. Probably only a deleriant could do that.
 
2012-07-29 07:05:31 PM

Explodo: pxlboy: puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked

Scruffy believes in this company

Why aren't you fixing the boiler?


I'm on break.

*turns page*
 
2012-07-29 07:06:10 PM

puffy999: Explodo: pxlboy: puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked

Scruffy believes in this company

Why aren't you fixing the boiler?

I'm on break.

Schedule conflict.

*turns page*


/ftfm
 
2012-07-29 07:06:42 PM

puffy999: Explodo: But it'll likely taste like crap.

Mexican dirt drink?

/you can make sangria in the turlit
//'course it's shank or be shanked


I prefer Merlot.

But anyway - what i was talking about - take a look at Still Spirits product line.

You can get to 18% alcohol with a $2 packet of EC-1118 champagne yeast from any homebrew store - "turbo yeast" is just way faster.
 
2012-07-29 07:07:25 PM

pdkl95: Though those two groups have a huge overlap anyway.


Oh yeah, but people underestimate just how much attention it takes to turn the knob on the radio or talk to their screaming kids. Tired drivers are a large subset of that.
 
2012-07-29 07:07:31 PM

pdkl95: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

*sigh*

Yet again, this is attempting to solve the wrong problem.

When concerned about safety and things like DUI, this problem isn't "how much drug is this person currently on?", but "Do they have the necessary abilities to drive the car safely".

It doesn't matter the amount of THC, ethanol, or anything else the person might be using: if your reaction time, for example, is insufficient, you shouldn't be driving the damn car. Even better, not only is it future-proof against any other drug invented in the future, but this catches non-drug problems as well, such as the one that is probably the #1 issue on the highways right now: sleep deprivation.

If you've had a bunch of alcohol, but the test proves your abilities are still reasonable... meh. I'm not worried about you. If you've been up for 27 hours and starting to miss things like that stop sign over there, you're the actual danger.

It's probably even fairly simple and cheap to measure ability, too: if we can make a Nintendo DS for less than a couple hundred dollars, it shouldn't be more than that to make some sort of simulator that runs through a quick driving test.


Determining if someone is impaired from drugs or alcohol would involve too much ambiguous interpretation. The courts don't like that since it is the sort of thing that can not be easily proven one way or another. While a BAC is not a perfect measure, it is a reasonable tool (except when the level is set to ridiculously low values) for legal purposes.

Your suggestion that some kind of coordination test won't work. You need to have a baseline that is individually tailored for each person. Otherwise naturally clumsy people will get arrested for drunk driving.
 
2012-07-29 07:07:37 PM
If cannabis is legalized, everyone will grow their own and the government won't get a cut?

If you are the kind of smoker who is an at-home evening smoker and you live in a medical marijuana state, you will find yourself vaporizing hash instead of smoking flowers (or leaves). You won't be making your own hash, you will be trotting down to the local dispensary.

/there is money in legalization for the regulators
 
2012-07-29 07:09:04 PM

AndreMA: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

Actually we need something that measures impairment, unlike BAC.


what the hell are the field sobriety tests used for drinking for then?
 
2012-07-29 07:11:04 PM

puffy999: radarlove: There are over 14,000 strains of cannabis, each with its own unique effects, its own potency, its own smell and taste, and its own drawbacks.

A wonder genus, yes.

It will be a great day when a person can go to a doctor for their arthritic extremities and obtain a recommendation for the best strain available. It will open a potentially new market in the medical field, doctors whose expertise is marijuana prescription.


They had those back in (alcohol) Prohibition days. You'd go down to the doctor and get a pint whiskey prescription.
 
2012-07-29 07:12:09 PM

Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.

But holy fark this entire weed prohibition bullshiat is ridiculous, costs money, ruins lives, and has absolutely no positive side-effects to go along with it. Who the fark still thinks this is a good idea?


Me. I support it and the drug war. Why? Because a number of my friends make their entire living selling marijuana and a few other drugs. I'd hate for them to have to starve, be without money, etc... There's no way they'd be able to compete against the retail powerhouses so, well, I'm a bit biased.
 
2012-07-29 07:12:30 PM

spman: So you admit that the potential tax revenue often claimed by those in favor of legalization are exaggerted at best, and complete nonsense at worst?


Potentially, the tax revenues COULD almost not exist, if your average American re-develops a green thumb. However, most people are too lazy and will buy their product from stores that are licensed and pay taxes. Considering the decreased spending on marijuana-based crimes, it's worth it for that factor alone.

spman: I'm arguing that harder drugs will become more pervasive since the former weed dealers will end up having to turn to something else to pay the bills.


They'll have to do something, but most of them aren't going to start selling cocaine or hard drugs, because the majority of their former clients will not be interested. MOST people stay with pot, and there are reasons for that. And if they go off the deep end and start lacing their products, they WILL be going to prison.
 
2012-07-29 07:14:53 PM

ozebb: Hey subby, right there on the page is a handy clickable link that gives a URL like this: http://www.alternet.org/drugs/five-scientific-conclusions-about-canna b is-mainstream-media-doesnt-want-you-know?paging=off

Which results in a much more readable article. Is that really so hard?


if you're stoned, well yeah.
 
2012-07-29 07:16:03 PM

OgreMagi: Your suggestion that some kind of coordination test won't work. You need to have a baseline that is individually tailored for each person. Otherwise naturally clumsy people will get arrested for drunk driving.


You clearly have never known anyone who has been arrested for driving under the influence. It's a much more complicated process than "Hi, I'm Officer Bob, blow into this tube. Oh, 0.08, you're under arrest right now." There's more to the process in court, as well.

Actually, a calibrated machine would be MUCH more impartial than your average beat cop who claims a person's eyes were, at the time, bloodshot. How about calibrating each user's driving habits (with some reasonable degree of leeway) each time they renew their driving license?
 
2012-07-29 07:17:43 PM

Mr.Bobo: [farm4.staticflickr.com image 426x640]

Its a plant... Legalize it...


.
.
It looks to me like your Ph is off, not that I would know.
 
2012-07-29 07:19:34 PM

daffy: I wish it was as easy to get it here in New York State as it is in California. I am on 17 different scips for various problems, all resulting in pain that could take down a rhino. Pot has fewer side effects than the meds I am on. They have to check my liver, kidneys and lungs every month by testing my blood. I also have Glaucoma, and take 3 different eye drops 2 a day. I also liked the way it made me feel, with not hangover in the morning. Of course, there is the munchies. My weight may suffer (I mean more then it has already). GIVE ME POT!


My sister has a username (not on Fark) very similar to your username. She, too, is crippled with myriad health problems that are beyond the pale.

Fortunately, she is in Maine with me now. She has her weed script. Sort of like they say with food and jobs, perhaps you need to move to where the weed is?

The best part? She lives right smack dab next to a school. Yup, right in a school zone. I'm kind of hoping they bust her. I've got her legal fees covered and think it would make an excellent test case. At the same time, a large portion of the complexities in her health are due to her mental health issues and if they bust her she may well snap and kill someone. So, there is that.
 
2012-07-29 07:22:40 PM
Oh and to clarify, the reason I brought that up is because officers (if properly trained) should ask nearly before anything (other than asking about substances consumed) whether a person has a medical condition that may result in behavior that's odd or may simulate symptoms of being under the influence of something.
 
2012-07-29 07:23:18 PM

OgreMagi: Determining if someone is impaired from drugs or alcohol would involve too much ambiguous interpretation. The courts don't like that since it is the sort of thing that can not be easily proven one way or another. While a BAC is not a perfect measure, it is a reasonable tool (except when the level is set to ridiculously low values) for legal purposes.


Why wouldn't it work? Making an objective test for reaction time, for example, is amazingly trivial, and would only require some minor studies to determine where to set the failure cutoff level.

And while you suggest coordination tests wouldn't work, you're implying that brethalyzer or similar alcohol (and hypothetically THC) tests do. When they obviously don't for many cases. [trivial example: my Filipino friend who has both of the "asian genes" for alcohol, and gets stupid drunk off one drink. No way he should go near a car, but he'd still easily pass a breathalyzer]

Your suggestion that some kind of coordination test won't work. You need to have a baseline that is individually tailored for each person. Otherwise naturally clumsy people will get arrested for drunk driving.

Ahh, here's the problem: such a baseline is NOT supposed to be "per person"! Just because you are a different person with slightly different traits and abilities doesn't change the physics involved in driving a vehicle!

The reaction time you need, so you apply the breaks successfully when you see the red lights on the car in front of you depends only on the speed of the two cars and how quickly the breaks slow you down. Reality doesn't change to the abilities of the individual driver; the driver needs to be skilled enough to deal with realities needs!
 
2012-07-29 07:25:16 PM

Oznog: Can cannabis use quell thoughts of suicide? Not a chance, claim the mainstream media and the Drug Czar . But a little-noticed discussion paper published this past February by the Institute for the Study of Labor in Bonn, Germany provides dramatic evidence to the contrary.

Explanation: marijuana users never get off the couch and do ANYTHING, even kill themselves.


Sounds like you know an extremely limited number of people who use pot or none at all. I know many very productive, creative, and financially successful pot users. Your conclusions seem unfounded to me.
 
2012-07-29 07:26:41 PM

BronyMedic: AndreMA: Actually we need something that measures impairment, unlike BAC.

BAC does a pretty good job of measuring impairment, actually, among a large subset of the population. There's always going to be exceptions to the rule, but it's a good general guide.

/Woohoo! Drunk Driving apologist thread!


I think his point was that we need a test that measures general impairment. Yes, BAC is a good indicator of ALCOHOL related impairment, but there are many other ways to be impaired. No one's saying that drunk driving should be allowed. (Unless I missed something somewhere...)
 
2012-07-29 07:27:05 PM
After 60 years of total fail , the cannabis prohibition laws are slaughtering, by dealers, and harming, by imprisonment, far more people than cannabis use ever did or could.

There's a huge difference between being under the influence of cannabis which last a few hours after the last intake, and having cannabis in the system which lasts a few weeks after the last intake.

Personally, the result of a cannabis ' overdose ' is a good nights sleep with no hangover in the morning.

' For profit prisons ' are funded government contracts, i.e, your taxes.

History shows us that prohibition doesn't work when it's based on lies.

.
 
2012-07-29 07:28:13 PM

Wolf892: Its stench gets everywhere and I shouldn't have to be nauseated by it.


We share the planet with other humans and some of them smell bad. You'll get over it.

/ Never used, but like the smell
// Cat loves the smell and goes right to the window when a neighbor lights up
 
2012-07-29 07:29:01 PM

pdkl95: The reaction time you need, so you apply the breaks successfully when you see the red lights on the car in front of you depends only on the speed of the two cars and how quickly the breaks slow you down. Reality doesn't change to the abilities of the individual driver; the driver needs to be skilled enough to deal with realities needs!


I do think a baseline would be needed for every person if one were to use this method for a court case regarding a person's sobriety and whether insobriety made them dangerous on the road. Otherwise, the measurement you ask for (which I don't disagree with...) would simply test whether a person should have been driving at that particular time. Really, I wouldn't mind if more dangerous drivers were sent home instead of being sent to jail, but that's another kettle of fish.

I mean, clearly any arrest for DUI would couple blood tests and visual observation of a subject along with results of a driving test, but the driving simulation itself would directly do very little to boost a court's case that a person was under the influence, at least without a comparison to that person when "sober."
 
2012-07-29 07:29:42 PM

Explodo: steamingpile: BronyMedic: Marijuana should be legalized and taxed, the same as alcohol and cigs. Not only would it bring in millions of dollars for the state and federal governments, it would eliminate a large subset of crime, both violent and non, and free up our prison and penal system from thousands of frivolous cases each year.

But, that said, let's not pretend that Marijuana is completely harmless. It has the same level of harm as long-term tobacco use. And you really don't want to use it if you're schizophrenic.

Only the same long term effects if you smoke the same amount as cigarettes and that's pretty much impossible, most of my friends that smoke cigarettes go through a pack a day. If you can smoke 20 joints a day then you must be a God or Tommy Chong...

People seem to ignore the fact that you can just eat it also. Make some nice chocolate chip cookies with good weed and they'll taste different, but they won't taste bad unless you don't like chocolate chip cookies to begin with. Eat a cookie or two and enjoy a nice buzz for several hours. Lungs saved!


Oh hell yeah, I made some Brownies one time after straining the weed and they kicked ass, I have smoked a lot of pot so I have a fairly high tolerance but one little half Brownie farked me up. My buddy who travels overseas a lot ate two and he said he felt like he was tripping for about 3 hours.

Pot also makes people less aggressive than alcohol unless you have mental issues to start with but that's a small percentage.
 
2012-07-29 07:29:47 PM

OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot


We need to use tests not for blood level, but for actual impairment. Great Aunt Gertrude shouldn't be driving if she can't see beyond the hood of her Crown Vic...
 
2012-07-29 07:31:10 PM

Gyrony: Great Aunt Gertrude shouldn't be driving if she can't see beyond the hood of her Crown Vic...


HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY THE FREEDOMS OF OUR MOST SEASONED OF AMERICANS.
 
2012-07-29 07:32:16 PM

Esroc: I don't see why marijuana making you a bit lazy is such a favorite argument for the anti-weed crowd. For starters, it doesn't make you so lazy you just waste away on your couch. I still manage to get up and go to work every day, pay my bills, and easily contribute to society. The only difference is when I get home instead of a beer and ESPN, I roll a joint and watch cartoon network.

Plus, I suspect if more people would just chill out and smoke a bowl, then maybe we'd all stop killing eachother.


So very much this
 
2012-07-29 07:33:36 PM
For example, a news story from the July 6, 1927 edition of the New York Times pronounced, "A widow and her four children have been driven insane by eating the Marihuana plant, according to doctors, who say there is no hope of saving the children's lives and that the mother will be insane for the rest of her life."

One theory I read was that marijuana MIGHT have been confused with datura (Jimson weed). Basically it was the "AK-47" of its contemporary media (and even medical) reporting. This could explain a lot, because marijuana was described as inducing nightmarish hallucinations, delirium, and sometimes violent psychotic behavior, which it's now understood NOT to do, but datura IS known to do that.

The term "weed" might be somewhat interchangeable between Jimson weed (datura) and marijuana. The users themselves might not be aware of the difference, it's not like a kid in Maryland consults a botanical chart. If that's what some kids smoke there, and primarily called it "weed", and you hear the term "marijuana", I could see where a mistake could be made. So you MIGHT all freak out and go to a doctor or get arrested and confess it was because you were smoking "marijuana", when it wasn't.

Funny thing is, datura was never banned at all (for the most part), even though it's a FAR more harmful drug. I guess they figured it was so undesirable that the problem was rather "self-limiting".
 
2012-07-29 07:33:44 PM
Making hash is frightfully easy.
The analogy with EtOH breaks down here as well. If the tariff gets too high, people will resort to self-production.
 
2012-07-29 07:35:41 PM

puffy999: Gyrony: Great Aunt Gertrude shouldn't be driving if she can't see beyond the hood of her Crown Vic...

HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY THE FREEDOMS OF OUR MOST SEASONED OF AMERICANS.


I blink fail blink to blink see blink the blink point blink of blink your blink comment.
 
2012-07-29 07:36:14 PM
Oh, and for those in the thread who are claiming that the government will reap no tax revenue because cannabis is so easy to grow, I have this to say:

Yes, cannabis is easy to grow. Like all plants, it just wants to live. A bunch of sunlight and some water in nutrient rich soil will keep it growing.

It is not, however, easy to grow RIGHT. If you want a good quantity of high-quality cannabis, it takes a lot of time, effort, patience, and diligence to grow a good plant. It can be a very fickle plant, sensitive to temperature and humidity and to pH levels in your soil and water, and very vulnerable to pests like spider-mites. Deer will eat it by the bushel. Plants need to be sexed and the males removed promptly to avoid pollination. Trimming is a VERY labor intensive process that takes a great deal of time, and proper curing takes a great deal of time and attentiveness as well.

You don't have to pay constant attention to your tomatoes and eggplants. You don't have to spend weeks curing them after the fact.

And most folks will STILL buy their produce from the store rather than growing it themselves. It is more expensive to go out and buy them, sure, but it is less of a pain in the ass than tending a garden, so people shop. Hell, even cooking is too much of a pain in the ass for some people, so they go out to restaurants.

What makes people think cannabis would be any different?

Cannabis shops and hash bars will make BANK in this country once legalization finally happens, and that's a taxable revenue stream that the government is in no position to pass up.
 
2012-07-29 07:37:35 PM

Ryker's Peninsula: Pink Floyd or Bob Marley is a fine, Sublime will get you arrested, and Monster Magnet gets you a police escort to your destination.


Monster Magnet? Really? It seems my stoner stereotypes are badly out of date. I don't smoke (job reasons), but you'll get my copy of Powertrip when you take it from my cold dead hands.
 
2012-07-29 07:39:04 PM

Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.


As a 44 year old woman who smokes daily, and has been a smoker for about 25 years, I am curious to hear of these "drawbacks".
I've watched some of my male friends smoke from the time they were in their late teens.. so yes.. I am curious. Maybe I need to alert them.
 
2012-07-29 07:39:55 PM

relcec: it's not the doctors business any more than the politicians what I choose to consume.


Also a damned good point. But doctors are more qualified to speak to how a substance affects the human body. Their advice is worth more than a congressmans on this point.
 
2012-07-29 07:41:16 PM

Fano: Getting high leads to telling longwinded pointless stories and engineering bongs out of anything your stoned mind can conceive from tools at hand.


For me it led to starting a summer seasonal scooter rental business near a national park that allows me to have 8 months off a year to bum around the country and take photographs of cool stuff.
/but that's just me.
 
2012-07-29 07:45:59 PM

santadog: Fano: Getting high leads to telling longwinded pointless stories and engineering bongs out of anything your stoned mind can conceive from tools at hand.

For me it led to starting a summer seasonal scooter rental business near a national park that allows me to have 8 months off a year to bum around the country and take photographs of cool stuff.
/but that's just me.


sourbrains.org
 
2012-07-29 07:47:37 PM
pot is fun
 
2012-07-29 07:49:52 PM

spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is...



Of course the thugs will move on to selling other drugs, thats how organized crime works. The prize for us is, the massive chunk of revenue that we steal directly from cartel pockets. They're reaping billions from us yearly.

If cannabis is completely legalized and allowed to grow anywhere by anyone, like roses, the price would drop substantially and cannabis would be cheap as dirt. But realistically this will never happen. What Ive already seen being proposed in Colorado is artificial price propping to balloon stable taxable revenue, which could still foster some black market tendencies. Government needs to keep interference to a minimum, or else we're just going to be creating a new broken system every time. But, with pharmaceuticals taking a hit, minor damage to fiber and paper industries, and the whole conservative population getting all butthurt, you know gov't wants it's hand in somehow.

Bastards...
 
2012-07-29 07:51:06 PM
The amount of ancient anti-pot rhetoric that still persists is STAGGERING. FFS we got a supposed medic quoting absolute garbage. Whoever is in charge of anti-weed propaganda is doing a great jorb.
 
2012-07-29 08:00:19 PM

radarlove: It is not, however, easy to grow RIGHT. If you want a good quantity of high-quality cannabis, it takes a lot of time, effort, patience, and diligence to grow a good plant. It can be a very fickle plant, sensitive to temperature and humidity and to pH levels in your soil and water, and very vulnerable to pests like spider-mites. Deer will eat it by the bushel. Plants need to be sexed and the males removed promptly to avoid pollination. Trimming is a VERY labor intensive process that takes a great deal of time, and proper curing takes a great deal of time and attentiveness as well.


Yes, which makes it like many crops harvested for food.

Thank you for stating that you can't just plant something in the ground and expecting some of Oregon's finest greenery to pop up in a few months. I'm sure no person ever considered that growing crops takes a bit more than a few scoops of feces, a hope, and some water.
 
2012-07-29 08:00:29 PM

daffy: I wish it was as easy to get it here in New York State as it is in California. I am on 17 different scips for various problems, all resulting in pain that could take down a rhino. Pot has fewer side effects than the meds I am on. They have to check my liver, kidneys and lungs every month by testing my blood. I also have Glaucoma, and take 3 different eye drops 2 a day. I also liked the way it made me feel, with not hangover in the morning. Of course, there is the munchies. My weight may suffer (I mean more then it has already). GIVE ME POT!


My aunt would grow pot in her corn fields for her husband who had painful cancer. Meds did not help. This was 30 years ago.
 
2012-07-29 08:02:08 PM

Ima4nic8or: Keep up the rationalizations you dirty hippies. It helps schizos. Ok, so? Are you a schizo? If not then no reason to use it. It purportedly reduces suicide rates. I am dubious and suspect this study is a case of confusing correlation and causation. Lets say its not though. Thinking of killing yourself right now? If not, then no need for the dope.




Are you trying to have a baby? If not then there's no need to fark. Can you get your daily 1200 calories from peanuts and kale? Then there's no need to eat anything else.

Can you be a pedantic, friendless killjoy who refuses to acknowledge the human need for pleasure in an empty room with a no computer? Then there's no reason to be on Fark.
 
2012-07-29 08:02:24 PM
5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

3.bp.blogspot.com

In a parallel Dupont and Hearst free universe, Americans are happily toking up.
 
2012-07-29 08:04:37 PM

MisterTweak: puffy999: Gyrony: Great Aunt Gertrude shouldn't be driving if she can't see beyond the hood of her Crown Vic...

HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY THE FREEDOMS OF OUR MOST SEASONED OF AMERICANS.

I blink fail blink to blink see blink the blink point blink of blink your blink comment.


Gertrude! I didn't know you were a FARKer.
 
2012-07-29 08:07:41 PM
However, it is true that people in general would overlook a couple key issues involving production, particularly sexing, drying, and problems with certain bugs (in this region, mites).

Of course, nobody was arguing that every person who wishes to grow will grow their own. That's a pipe dream, so to speak, because not only would it be impossible for many people in larger cities, but most people are just too lazy or have other things they'd rather be doing with their time than learning a process that isn't difficult if one is willing to learn and has an hour a day (sometimes more on certain days) to spend on their plants.

Let's be fair, too... even with very easy to grow foods like tomatoes, if you put in the extra work you will obtain a better product.
 
2012-07-29 08:10:41 PM

D_Evans45: I remember i fought that guy who was way too big for me when I was high. I also beat up my wife. I hit my kid a couple times with the belt as well, and swerved all over the road nearly killing an innocent family. Then I called up my ex and bawled for a half hour.

/Submitter is a dumbass


Wow. Your experience is vastly different to many. At the hight of British soccer hooliganism a few years ago, Amsterdam was the one place those clowns stayed peaceful. I'm concerned you may have an undiagnosed mental issue relating to violence. I'd definitely be speaking to a doctor.
 
2012-07-29 08:12:52 PM

Weaver95: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

read that one again: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

you cannot argue with these facts. this has been scientifically proven - cannabis does not meet the requirements of Schedule I. you MUST accept this fact, you have no choice in the matter. And once you do admit to the facts involved...then the entire argument against legalization falls apart.


My list:

1- Potheads smell bad.

2- With a few notable exceptions among celebrities, Potheads are losers who seem preoccupied with telling you how awesome weed is.

3- Potheads are the least interesting drug addicts to talk to.

4- We all know what a bong looks like, you aren't fooling anyone dumbshiat.

5- No you really aren't expanding your mind.
 
2012-07-29 08:15:40 PM

santadog: Fano: Getting high leads to telling longwinded pointless stories and engineering bongs out of anything your stoned mind can conceive from tools at hand.

For me it led to starting a summer seasonal scooter rental business near a national park that allows me to have 8 months off a year to bum around the country and take photographs of cool stuff.
/but that's just me.


Oops, you have a business so you have liability insurance, which means if someone is injured or dies on one of your scooters and a lawyer remembers your little anecdote, he can sue you and your insurance company for negligence brought on by your admitted drug use. You might be fooling yourself, but the rest of us know whats going on.
 
2012-07-29 08:17:19 PM

Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.


Acapulco Gold!!!
 
2012-07-29 08:17:31 PM

Deece: Ima4nic8or: Keep up the rationalizations you dirty hippies. It helps schizos. Ok, so? Are you a schizo? If not then no reason to use it. It purportedly reduces suicide rates. I am dubious and suspect this study is a case of confusing correlation and causation. Lets say its not though. Thinking of killing yourself right now? If not, then no need for the dope.



Are you trying to have a baby? If not then there's no need to fark. Can you get your daily 1200 calories from peanuts and kale? Then there's no need to eat anything else.

Can you be a pedantic, friendless killjoy who refuses to acknowledge the human need for pleasure in an empty room with a no computer? Then there's no reason to be on Fark.



OOo...http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7q9j4ceRN1r162pq.gif
 
2012-07-29 08:18:22 PM

swaxhog: 5 mins after it's legalized


Thanks dude, only time I've seen that pic and smiled.
As for legalization, I've given up in despair. Law enforcement and the court system are addicted to the money and power, and even though it makes the Mexican gangs even more dangerous, it's not going to be legalized.
 
2012-07-29 08:19:47 PM

radarlove: Oh, and for those in the thread who are claiming that the government will reap no tax revenue because cannabis is so easy to grow, I have this to say:

Yes, cannabis is easy to grow. Like all plants, it just wants to live. A bunch of sunlight and some water in nutrient rich soil will keep it growing.

It is not, however, easy to grow RIGHT. If you want a good quantity of high-quality cannabis, it takes a lot of time, effort, patience, and diligence to grow a good plant. It can be a very fickle plant, sensitive to temperature and humidity and to pH levels in your soil and water, and very vulnerable to pests like spider-mites. Deer will eat it by the bushel. Plants need to be sexed and the males removed promptly to avoid pollination. Trimming is a VERY labor intensive process that takes a great deal of time, and proper curing takes a great deal of time and attentiveness as well.

You don't have to pay constant attention to your tomatoes and eggplants. You don't have to spend weeks curing them after the fact.

And most folks will STILL buy their produce from the store rather than growing it themselves. It is more expensive to go out and buy them, sure, but it is less of a pain in the ass than tending a garden, so people shop. Hell, even cooking is too much of a pain in the ass for some people, so they go out to restaurants.

What makes people think cannabis would be any different?

Cannabis shops and hash bars will make BANK in this country once legalization finally happens, and that's a taxable revenue stream that the government is in no position to pass up.


Imma make you a list of all the jobs you wont be getting because of legal cannabis use......

1- Every job that pays more than $50,000 a year
2- Any job which carries responsibility for large amounts of cash or investments.
3- Any job which involves children or heavy machinery

Once again, it isnt about your opinion of the drug, its about people not wanting to trust a pothead with something of value. Works the same way with alcohol and prescription drugs, if you have a habit and it impairs your judgement, someone somewhere will use that to justify removing you fro a high paying job....mostly because right behind you is someone who is just as good as you are who doesnt smoke pot.
 
2012-07-29 08:21:52 PM
Gyrfalcon: Not an anecdote, merely a wild overgeneralization. I've known plenty of genuine psychos who had a much easier time of it ON pot than off. Your mileage may vary. It was just a common-sense reason why the author's claim MIGHT be true.

Yeah, you're probably right. She was never quite well and just about anything could have been a trigger. I can tell you that the pot didn't help her, that's for damn sure, but overall I've never seen anybody lose their shiat because of a few marijuanas.
 
2012-07-29 08:23:01 PM
If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.
 
2012-07-29 08:23:52 PM

santadog: Sargun: Marijuana has a variety of problems that potheads refuse to admit. It's not a wonder drug and has drawbacks, especially in the age group that its mainly frequented by (young males) in popular culture.

As a 44 year old woman who smokes daily, and has been a smoker for about 25 years, I am curious to hear of these "drawbacks".
I've watched some of my male friends smoke from the time they were in their late teens.. so yes.. I am curious. Maybe I need to alert them.


I don't remember what comment it was you made that I favorited you, but this certainly affirms my choice.

I've been enjoying the demon weed recreationally since the mid seventies. I dig it even more as I get older because it helps relieve the nagging pain I have from over fifty years worth of injuries. Beats the HELL out of any OTC pharmaceuticals and gets me the altitude adjustment I desire at the same time.
 
2012-07-29 08:25:27 PM

archichris: Imma make you a list of all the jobs you wont be getting because of legal cannabis use......

1- Every job that pays more than $50,000 a year
2- Any job which carries responsibility for large amounts of cash or investments.
3- Any job which involves children or heavy machinery

Once again, it isnt about your opinion of the drug, its about people not wanting to trust a pothead with something of value. Works the same way with alcohol and prescription drugs, if you have a habit and it impairs your judgement, someone somewhere will use that to justify removing you fro a high paying job....mostly because right behind you is someone who is just as good as you are who doesnt smoke pot.


Yeah. I know I've never heard of a banker, or construction worker, or architect, or ad exec., or teacher, or parent who enjoyed a few drinks now and again without it ending in unmitigated disaster.

It's too bad that with pot, alcohol, or any similar drug there's just no possible way to indulge occasionally without the drug becoming your defining characteristic.

If only...
 
2012-07-29 08:26:56 PM

elchip: [upload.wikimedia.org image 380x380]


WTF is "Street methadone"?
 
2012-07-29 08:28:43 PM
Just legalize the shiat. tax the shiat out of it. I am so sick of hearing people whine "Pot should be legal! Our government is oppressing us!!"
 
2012-07-29 08:29:19 PM

havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.


Level 2 Moral Development, please cognitively grow up.
 
2012-07-29 08:30:23 PM

What_do_you_want_now: havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.

Level 2 Moral Development, please cognitively grow up.


That makes no sense. Please explain.
 
2012-07-29 08:30:49 PM

havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.


Yeah! If a bunch of rich old white men have decided that something is morally wrong, who am I to have a differing opinion? I mean, I'm sure they have no ulterior motives and have only the good of the citizens in mind...

/A large percentage of the money going to anti-legalization lobbies comes from beer and liquor companies
//Surely they're not just watching their profits...
 
2012-07-29 08:33:50 PM
Why doesn't the media want me to know this?
 
2012-07-29 08:34:21 PM
Not to dispute TFA, but you gotta admit: The stuff can make some people paranoid and prone to freaking out.

An old friend became paranoid schizophrenic in high school. He doesn't blame the weed--no one does*--but he said he stopped smoking because it made him more paranoid. Not more violent, but more frightened, anxious, depressed....

I have another friend, no mental illness, who just flat out quit because it made him paranoid and uneasy. Just didn't like it.

To each his own.


*The nonstop acid trip and family history combo is another story.
 
2012-07-29 08:34:36 PM

havana_joe: What_do_you_want_now: havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.

Level 2 Moral Development, please cognitively grow up.

That makes no sense. Please explain.


Have you tried clicking the link? Level 2 moral development concerns itself only with what the rules state and how best to fit within them. Once you get beyond that level, you begin to ask whether the rules are justified, and once satisfaction is reached, you follow them. However, if satisfaction is not reached, then you begin to ask for a review and reassessment of what the rule was designed for.

Nobody asks to repeal the laws that make murder illegal, but many more people are asking for a repeal of the laws that make MJ illegal to own/grow/sell/use. Maybe because these people are more cognitively developed than you.

/please, click links and read
 
2012-07-29 08:35:04 PM

apres_ski_god: Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.

Naw... You just got older


Absolutely - everything we smoked when I was a kid grew out of the earth. I haven't seen dirt pot in years and the lab grown stuff has been fed all sorts of stuff to enhance the high. I liked old school better. It never took much to get me high - I'd actually get a buzz just getting a whiff of it. After 40+ years of using, I hardly ever smoke any more but always felt it should be legal even if just to get it out of the hands of dealers who also sold everything else you might want to try.
 
2012-07-29 08:35:35 PM

archichris: Weaver95: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

read that one again: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so

you cannot argue with these facts. this has been scientifically proven - cannabis does not meet the requirements of Schedule I. you MUST accept this fact, you have no choice in the matter. And once you do admit to the facts involved...then the entire argument against legalization falls apart.

My list:

1- Potheads smell bad.

2- With a few notable exceptions among celebrities, Potheads are losers who seem preoccupied with telling you how awesome weed is.

3- Potheads are the least interesting drug addicts to talk to.

4- We all know what a bong looks like, you aren't fooling anyone dumbshiat.

5- No you really aren't expanding your mind.


Your points 1, 2, 3, and 5 are merely opinions. Point 4 is an inane over generalization. There is nothing in your statement to support any kind of logical argument. Thanks for sharing though.
 
2012-07-29 08:35:49 PM

What_do_you_want_now: havana_joe: What_do_you_want_now: havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.

Level 2 Moral Development, please cognitively grow up.

That makes no sense. Please explain.

Have you tried clicking the link? Level 2 moral development concerns itself only with what the rules state and how best to fit within them. Once you get beyond that level, you begin to ask whether the rules are justified, and once satisfaction is reached, you follow them. However, if satisfaction is not reached, then you begin to ask for a review and reassessment of what the rule was designed for.

Nobody asks to repeal the laws that make murder illegal, but many more people are asking for a repeal of the laws that make MJ illegal to own/grow/sell/use. Maybe because these people are more cognitively developed than you.

/please, click links and read


Then one should work to change those rules but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.
 
2012-07-29 08:36:57 PM

chaoswolf: fark the market and fark the government. I should be able to grow it in the back yard next to the tomatoes.


This. This. Motherfarkin' THIS.
 
2012-07-29 08:39:02 PM

havana_joe: but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.


Yeah, well...life's too short, man.
 
2012-07-29 08:39:24 PM

havana_joe: What_do_you_want_now: havana_joe: What_do_you_want_now: havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.

Level 2 Moral Development, please cognitively grow up.

That makes no sense. Please explain.

Have you tried clicking the link? Level 2 moral development concerns itself only with what the rules state and how best to fit within them. Once you get beyond that level, you begin to ask whether the rules are justified, and once satisfaction is reached, you follow them. However, if satisfaction is not reached, then you begin to ask for a review and reassessment of what the rule was designed for.

Nobody asks to repeal the laws that make murder illegal, but many more people are asking for a repeal of the laws that make MJ illegal to own/grow/sell/use. Maybe because these people are more cognitively developed than you.

/please, click links and read

Then one should work to change those rules but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.


Rosa Parks would disagree, as would Mohandas Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Tienanmen Square Tank Guy. Sometimes the best way to work to change is to expose the inherit hypocritical elements in the rule. Usually that's associated with Level 3 Moral Development.
 
2012-07-29 08:41:00 PM

signaljammer: "I need a better dealer"

My shiat keeps a light and sticks to the wall. I know what weed is, I have been smoking it for thirty-seven years. That said no, it just cannot impair one the way an over-exposure to ethanol can. Probably only a deleriant could do that.


Agreed on the degree of impairment, in fact I don't even think that's debatable. IIRC from your original post it basically indicated weed couldn't make you impaired. That was the point with which I disagreed.

No matter. Have a good one.
 
2012-07-29 08:41:20 PM

Explodo: Jackal_N: tomWright: Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe

Agreed.
You would think it would be legal as soon as they figure out that they can regulate it like tobacco from ground to pipe, so to speak, and tax the hell out of it. There is too much money to be made for the government to ignore it, so you have to ask who/what is profiting from it's being kept illegal???

I'd like to see it delivered like pizza... don't want to get behind all of the extra extra slow drivers.
Cheetos overdose... that's too painful to contemplate.

You don't ask much. Mary Jane is super-easy to grow. Anyone who was interested in doing so could easily grow all they need. Easy to grow means no revenue stream from taxes. There's therefore less financial incentive for deregulation.


That may be, but many of us are too lazy (or busy) to grow our own tomatoes. Also, I would guess that there is some variation in quality between MJ grown by a backyard gardner and MJ grown by the guy who has been doing it for twenty years.

When Europeans arrived in North America the Indians were growing tobacco. They didn't buy their plants ready to go into the ground, have planting machines, tobacco barns, additives, or most of the stuff that is found in the modern tobacco industry or products. However, they did have a hugh market for their product as soon as the Europeans got a hold of the stuff. Currently, the government doesn't appear having any problems regulating tobacco growing bases or tobacco auctions, I'm sure they could iron out the kinks of a MJ growing industry if they put their minds to it. In other words, I still think MJ would generate enough cash to make it worth the trouble. I suspect the root of the problem is a bunch of Puritans who are forbidden to have fun; therefore, they don't want anyone else to have any fun either.

As for home delivery, I would love to see a lot of things that impair the ability to drive sent directly to the user's home. If stuff is being delivered no one should ever be driving under the influence, loud enough to annoy my cats, on my lawn,... Hmmm, either the lawn work is making me old or the sun has gotten to me.
 
2012-07-29 08:41:43 PM

havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.


So you never exceed the speed limit? Excessive speed is one of the leading causes of vehicular collisions contributing greatly to over thirty thousand deaths a year. I'm anxiously awaiting your honest reply.
 
2012-07-29 08:43:12 PM

Deece: havana_joe: but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.

Yeah, well...life's too short, man.


Watch the film "Scorpion and Felix" and it will all be clear to you...
 
2012-07-29 08:43:25 PM
FTA: "The study's researchers "confirmed the expected reductions in FEV1 (forced expiratory volume in the first second of expiration) and FVC (forced vital capacity)" in tobacco smokers. The effect of cannabis smoke on the lungs, however, was a very different story. Investigators found: "Marijuana use was associated with higher FEV1 and FVC at the low levels of exposure typical for most marijuana users. With up to 7 joint-years of lifetime exposure (e.g., 1 joint/d for 7 years or 1 joint/wk for 49 years), we found no evidence that increasing exposure to marijuana adversely affects pulmonary function."

I'm guessing that all that breath-holding has something to do with it.
 
2012-07-29 08:43:58 PM

havana_joe: Then one should work to change those rules but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.


Think the civil rights movement would've ended the same if there weren't sit ins or people refusing to give up bus seats or use the wrong drinking fountain?

I don't.
 
2012-07-29 08:44:20 PM

TwowheelinTim: havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.

So you never exceed the speed limit? Excessive speed is one of the leading causes of vehicular collisions contributing greatly to over thirty thousand deaths a year. I'm anxiously awaiting your honest reply.


No, I don't. I obey the speed limit and I use cruise control on the highway to make sure that I don't. Your point was?
 
2012-07-29 08:44:55 PM

Cpl.D: havana_joe: Then one should work to change those rules but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.

Think the civil rights movement would've ended the same if there weren't sit ins or people refusing to give up bus seats or use the wrong drinking fountain?

I don't.


Yes, I do.
 
2012-07-29 08:45:53 PM

archichris: radarlove: Oh, and for those in the thread who are claiming that the government will reap no tax revenue because cannabis is so easy to grow, I have this to say:

Yes, cannabis is easy to grow. Like all plants, it just wants to live. A bunch of sunlight and some water in nutrient rich soil will keep it growing.

It is not, however, easy to grow RIGHT. If you want a good quantity of high-quality cannabis, it takes a lot of time, effort, patience, and diligence to grow a good plant. It can be a very fickle plant, sensitive to temperature and humidity and to pH levels in your soil and water, and very vulnerable to pests like spider-mites. Deer will eat it by the bushel. Plants need to be sexed and the males removed promptly to avoid pollination. Trimming is a VERY labor intensive process that takes a great deal of time, and proper curing takes a great deal of time and attentiveness as well.

You don't have to pay constant attention to your tomatoes and eggplants. You don't have to spend weeks curing them after the fact.

And most folks will STILL buy their produce from the store rather than growing it themselves. It is more expensive to go out and buy them, sure, but it is less of a pain in the ass than tending a garden, so people shop. Hell, even cooking is too much of a pain in the ass for some people, so they go out to restaurants.

What makes people think cannabis would be any different?

Cannabis shops and hash bars will make BANK in this country once legalization finally happens, and that's a taxable revenue stream that the government is in no position to pass up.

Imma make you a list of all the jobs you wont be getting because of legal cannabis use......

1- Every job that pays more than $50,000 a year
2- Any job which carries responsibility for large amounts of cash or investments.
3- Any job which involves children or heavy machinery

Once again, it isnt about your opinion of the drug, its about people not wanting to trust a pothead with something of value. Works the same way with alcohol and prescription drugs, if you have a habit and it impairs your judgement, someone somewhere will use that to justify removing you fro a high paying job....mostly because right behind you is someone who is just as good as you are who doesnt smoke pot.


After what I've seen you post in this thread already, your ignorant rant above comes as no surprise at all. Virtually none of what you stated is true. I know educators, equipment operators, and people in positions you probably couldn't dream of attaining who use marijuana.
 
2012-07-29 08:46:56 PM

havana_joe: Watch the film "Scorpion and Felix" and it will all be clear to you...


havana_joe: No, I don't. I obey the speed limit and I use cruise control on the highway to make sure that I don't. Your point was?


Oooooooh! Karl Marx movies and the needle pinned to the speed limit? You must be a devil with the ladies!
 
2012-07-29 08:47:41 PM
Pot should be legal! Our government is oppressing us!!
 
2012-07-29 08:48:23 PM

ultraholland: I had a certifiable girlfriend who went off the deep end when she smoked pot, so I wholeheartedly disagree with this.


I know a girl who does this and gets crazy farking paranoid and ridiculous when she does it.
And I have a male friend who doesn't smoke because he hallucinates when he does and it's apparently the equivalent of a normal person getting dosed.
 
2012-07-29 08:49:52 PM

archichris: Weaver95: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so
read that one again: 5. The schedule I classification of cannabis is a lie; the science says so
you cannot argue with these facts. this has been scientifically proven - cannabis does not meet the requirements of Schedule I. you MUST accept this fact, you have no choice in the matter. And once you do admit to the facts involved...then the entire argument against legalization falls apart.
My list:
1- Potheads smell bad.
2- With a few notable exceptions among celebrities, Potheads are losers who seem preoccupied with telling you how awesome weed is.
3- Potheads are the least interesting drug addicts to talk to.
4- We all know what a bong looks like, you aren't fooling anyone dumbshiat.
5- No you really aren't expanding your mind.


Surely you mean except those who 2 guys who won Nobel prizes and those other guys who founded companies that made them billionaires and the other guy who won more olympic gold medals than anyone else.

Link to list of successful people

Link to list of smart people
 
2012-07-29 08:51:39 PM
I can't wait for the "legalize it!" crowd to run into the "smoking is worse than being Hitler!" crowd. It'll require a lot of popcorn (and not just for all the stoners).

/Yes, I'm well aware that there's more than one way to ingest it. Do you think that will really matter to them?
 
2012-07-29 08:52:38 PM
I wish the state could just throw up her hands and admit the error of banning substances and just go on. The US conflict in Indochina dragged on seemingly forever, so I'm not holdin' my breath.

//What word bubbles to the top on Lexical analysis w/ potheads?
//'Ear.'
 
2012-07-29 08:56:54 PM

havana_joe: TwowheelinTim: havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.

So you never exceed the speed limit? Excessive speed is one of the leading causes of vehicular collisions contributing greatly to over thirty thousand deaths a year. I'm anxiously awaiting your honest reply.

No, I don't. I obey the speed limit and I use cruise control on the highway to make sure that I don't. Your point was?


My point is most people don't obey the speed limit. Statistically, you would fit in that category. People don't think twice about speeding and it results in the carnage you can read about in the news just about every day. I sincerely doubt marijuana use results in even a small fraction of as many deaths.
 
2012-07-29 08:57:06 PM

signaljammer: I wish the state could just throw up her hands and admit the error of banning substances and just go on. The US conflict in Indochina dragged on seemingly forever, so I'm not holdin' my breath.

//What word bubbles to the top on Lexical analysis w/ potheads?
//'Ear.'


As in:
'ear, take this dutchy on my left hand side?
 
2012-07-29 08:57:44 PM

havana_joe: Cpl.D: havana_joe: Then one should work to change those rules but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.

Think the civil rights movement would've ended the same if there weren't sit ins or people refusing to give up bus seats or use the wrong drinking fountain?

I don't.

Yes, I do.


This is fascinating. @Havana Joe, we've had some examples of reforms which have begun with illegal protests/conduct (Rosa Parks, Ghandi, Tiannamin Square) - and we can add Mandela, alcohol prohibition and my own country's acceptance of its indigenous population as human beings in the mid-1960's to this list. Why do you think protesting dope's illegality but everyone obeying the laws until they change (ie so the establishment can point to the total lack of support for this) would work? Examples please. Else you're a troll.
 
2012-07-29 09:01:20 PM
legalize pot. followed by oxycontin. make it OTC. for my complex 11 aches and pains (i have fibromyalgia)
 
2012-07-29 09:04:04 PM

sillydragon: I can't wait for the "legalize it!" crowd to run into the "smoking is worse than being Hitler!" crowd. It'll require a lot of popcorn (and not just for all the stoners).

/Yes, I'm well aware that there's more than one way to ingest it. Do you think that will really matter to them?


But apparently not aware of the tired petty bullsh*t you're prepared to cheer on.
 
2012-07-29 09:04:23 PM

Aussie_As: D_Evans45: ..

Wow. Your experience is vastly different to many. At the hight of British soccer hooliganism a few years ago, Amsterdam was the one place those clowns stayed peaceful. I'm concerned you may have an undiagnosed mental issue relating to violence. I'd definitely be speaking to a doctor.



Can you really miss that amount of sarcasm with that disclaimer down there? My slashie clearly stated that submitter was a dumbass for possibly even comparing the severity of impairment. The whole post is a joke, when has a stoner ever gotten drunk tendencies? Never.

What subby was going for was "perception," not "impairment." But he/she appears to lack the ability to discern the difference.
 
2012-07-29 09:05:42 PM

muldoon: I never understood the "It's a plant, it's natural and therefore is safe" mindset. poison ivy is a plant, would you smoke that?

That said, it's plainly obvious that pot is not a problem warranting militarization of our police force to save us. More lives are lost with our current policies then from the substance itself. Indeed, the solution is worse than the problem.

I have smoked plenty of dope in my life but do not use it these days or years. I don't care if you do, nor do I care if anyone does, however I would prefer those dollars go to official GDP instead of going to thug culture gangsters, cartel killers, banks and crooked politicians.

We can grow lettuce and broccoli in this country for less than a dollar a pound, but pot is greater than $50 per ounce for the shiattiest mexi-brick. It's stupid. Legalize it, let the market sort it out.


I would be thrilled if poison ivy was made illegal like marijuana.
Then the DEA could come and clear the stuff out from behind my shed and I wouldn't have to mess with it year after year.
 
2012-07-29 09:05:47 PM

spman: Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.


Who's to say you can't legalize and regulate coke and heroin too and then any arrests or deaths will be purely over safety issues or violence, merely punishing the violence for being violence instead of throwing in the drugs in the mix as an excuse. After all as you said, they're going to be violent criminals regardless of the drugs and the violence is the element you want to isolate and punish/contain/reform.
/Not sure how the CIA would take to more competition on the heroin and cocaine markets here though.
/We could also just hire all of these thugs to be CEOs and politicians, since their jobs would have essentially not have changed at all, if not that, we can just induct them into the legal gang and enforcers of the prior two classes, the police
 
2012-07-29 09:06:10 PM

TwowheelinTim: Oznog: Can cannabis use quell thoughts of suicide? Not a chance, claim the mainstream media and the Drug Czar . But a little-noticed discussion paper published this past February by the Institute for the Study of Labor in Bonn, Germany provides dramatic evidence to the contrary.

Explanation: marijuana users never get off the couch and do ANYTHING, even kill themselves.

Sounds like you know an extremely limited number of people who use pot or none at all. I know many very productive, creative, and financially successful pot users. Your conclusions seem unfounded to me.


Well, that's just because you haven't watched the PSAs that *I* have.
 
2012-07-29 09:08:01 PM

Aussie_As: havana_joe: Cpl.D: havana_joe: Then one should work to change those rules but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.

Think the civil rights movement would've ended the same if there weren't sit ins or people refusing to give up bus seats or use the wrong drinking fountain?

I don't.

Yes, I do.

This is fascinating. @Havana Joe, we've had some examples of reforms which have begun with illegal protests/conduct (Rosa Parks, Ghandi, Tiannamin Square) - and we can add Mandela, alcohol prohibition and my own country's acceptance of its indigenous population as human beings in the mid-1960's to this list. Why do you think protesting dope's illegality but everyone obeying the laws until they change (ie so the establishment can point to the total lack of support for this) would work? Examples please. Else you're a troll.


Please provide proof of which of your examples would not have eventually changed, over time, and through legal methods, and we can have an intelligent conversation...
 
2012-07-29 09:09:20 PM

TwowheelinTim: havana_joe: TwowheelinTim: havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.

So you never exceed the speed limit? Excessive speed is one of the leading causes of vehicular collisions contributing greatly to over thirty thousand deaths a year. I'm anxiously awaiting your honest reply.

No, I don't. I obey the speed limit and I use cruise control on the highway to make sure that I don't. Your point was?

My point is most people don't obey the speed limit. Statistically, you would fit in that category. People don't think twice about speeding and it results in the carnage you can read about in the news just about every day. I sincerely doubt marijuana use results in even a small fraction of as many deaths.


So your point is that more people shouldn't speed. I totally agree with this. I'm all for obeying the law and reducing the death toll.
 
2012-07-29 09:10:47 PM

Deece: havana_joe: Watch the film "Scorpion and Felix" and it will all be clear to you...

havana_joe: No, I don't. I obey the speed limit and I use cruise control on the highway to make sure that I don't. Your point was?

Oooooooh! Karl Marx movies and the needle pinned to the speed limit? You must be a devil with the ladies!


You're looking at the movie in the wrong frame of mind. Think of OMAPI first and then re-watch it.
 
2012-07-29 09:13:50 PM

puffy999: Maybe their next target would be the banking industry...

"Goldman Sachs CEO didn't pay his bill... collapse his kneecaps, Vinnie."


If only.
 
2012-07-29 09:21:56 PM
The real reason Marijuana remains illegal:

dl.dropbox.com

It fills every law enforcement agency's coffers full of gold.

/Want to change it? Form a lobby and give cash to your congressman.
/If you don't learn the corruption game, don't complain when change never happens.
 
2012-07-29 09:24:11 PM

way south: The real reason Marijuana remains illegal:

[dl.dropbox.com image 320x283]

It fills every law enforcement agency's coffers full of gold.

/Want to change it? Form a lobby and give cash to your congressman.
/If you don't learn the corruption game, don't complain when change never happens.


Actually, we don't need to go that route, there's plenty of available activism but thanks for sharing.
 
2012-07-29 09:25:56 PM

havana_joe: Aussie_As: havana_joe: Cpl.D: havana_joe: Then one should work to change those rules but that process does not grant one the right to violate them until and unless those rules are changed.

Think the civil rights movement would've ended the same if there weren't sit ins or people refusing to give up bus seats or use the wrong drinking fountain?

I don't.

Yes, I do.

This is fascinating. @Havana Joe, we've had some examples of reforms which have begun with illegal protests/conduct (Rosa Parks, Ghandi, Tiannamin Square) - and we can add Mandela, alcohol prohibition and my own country's acceptance of its indigenous population as human beings in the mid-1960's to this list. Why do you think protesting dope's illegality but everyone obeying the laws until they change (ie so the establishment can point to the total lack of support for this) would work? Examples please. Else you're a troll.

Please provide proof of which of your examples would not have eventually changed, over time, and through legal methods, and we can have an intelligent conversation...


Asking the impossible, to prove a timeline that does not exist with data that doesn't exist.

You're trying to lure us into a postulation that even without such momentous occasions as Rosa Parks saying she wasn't getting up, or without MLK Jr.'s influence and his marches along with eventual death that society itself would have woken up and moved forward?

Probably, but we can't say so because things have happened thus. To speculate alternative time-lines is an exercise best left to Science Fiction writers. I would best say that the world needs icons, that we learn and adapt when faced with something that we've largely ignored as the status quo.

Just because something IS, doesn't mean it should be.
 
2012-07-29 09:30:36 PM
Dear Subby, please remove your head from your large intestines. You put the "asinine" tag in the wrong spot. It should have gone on your forehead.
 
2012-07-29 09:32:04 PM
As much as I agree that pot being treated as it is now is bullshiat, there's several reasons it won't be de-criminalized, period:

1.) Some folks (lawyers, prisons, law enforcement, politicians, alcohol and tobacco sellers, etc) either make too much money from, or have their jobs depend on, weed being kept as it is now.

2.) For weed to be used publically, there needs to actual impairment testing for driving privs. For that to happen, 80% of folks over 70 would lose their wheels. Old people vote. Never happen.

I have smoked weed exactly four times in my life, all over two decades ago, so I have no interest personally if it is legal or not.

But until the points above are handled, it will not change, facts be damned.
 
2012-07-29 09:37:45 PM

D_Evans45: Aussie_As: D_Evans45: ..

Wow. Your experience is vastly different to many. At the hight of British soccer hooliganism a few years ago, Amsterdam was the one place those clowns stayed peaceful. I'm concerned you may have an undiagnosed mental issue relating to violence. I'd definitely be speaking to a doctor.


Can you really miss that amount of sarcasm with that disclaimer down there? My slashie clearly stated that submitter was a dumbass for possibly even comparing the severity of impairment. The whole post is a joke, when has a stoner ever gotten drunk tendencies? Never.

What subby was going for was "perception," not "impairment." But he/she appears to lack the ability to discern the difference.


Sorry dude, it's Monday morning Australian time and I'm at my lousy desk job without having my usual wake-n-bake. Missed the sarcasm completely.
 
2012-07-29 09:43:45 PM

havana_joe: Aussie_As: havana_joe: Cpl.D: havana_joe: ...

This is fascinating. @Havana Joe, we've had some examples of reforms which have begun with illegal protests/conduct (Rosa Parks, Ghandi, Tiannamin Square) - and we can add Mandela, alcohol prohibition and my own country's acceptance of its indigenous population as human beings in the mid-1960's to this list. Why do you think protesting dope's illegality but everyone obeying the laws until they change (ie so the establishment can point to the total lack of support for this) would work? Examples please. Else you're a troll.

Please provide proof of which of your examples would not have eventually changed, over time, and through legal methods, and we can have an intelligent conversation...


People obeying the law is interpreted by authorities as people supporting the law. And this is used to refute arguements in favour of changing the law. And the status quo remains. And you can't seem to cite a single example of this, but instead challenge me to "provide proof" of hypothetical examples, and consider this intelligent discussion. I'm calling troll. But you can still give me the examples I've requested and I'll change my view. Though I'm not holding my breath.
 
2012-07-29 09:45:42 PM
"just like alcohol"

I'm guessing subby has never smoked or is one of the 1 in 100,000,000 people who have had a bad experience smoking. Either way, comparing marijuana to alcohol is absurb. I would have given everything had my father beed a pot head instead of an alcoholic. I'm pretty sure pot would have made him less abusive. Yet, it is alcohol that is legal. I have a huge problem with this. I guess it is all about your perspective.
 
2012-07-29 09:47:11 PM

havana_joe: Please provide proof of which of your examples would not have eventually changed, over time, and through legal methods, and we can have an intelligent conversation...


They wouldn't have.
Direct action is the driving force behind any major change like that.
Even after the eight hour day was put into law or promised, it was only multiple strikes and sabotage and armed resistance that won the actual reality of those laws.
I'd go a step further and say that even those nonviolent illegal protests wouldn't have changed anything without the "radical" element asserting their right to self-defense and ability to declare war against their agressors. The "radical" element is the actual threat and the "moderate" element is able to affect change insomuch as they work together with the radicals and embrace change. If every protester was a committed pacificst/nonviolent direct action, you absolutely could gun them down or lock enough of them up over time and nothing would change. The only problem with that is the radicalization it would cause.
The ending of most revolutions is to give in to the "moderates" and isolate them from the "radicals" so that significant change doesn't happen, the hierarchy is just more flexible, most of the people fighting back think they've won and give up, and the isolated "radicals" are no longer a huge problem to deal with because the "moderates" have consented to turn them in/turn a blind eye.
In other words, Ghandi wouldn't have done shiat without the Indian guerillas, MLK couldn't do shiat without Huey Newton and every black person on the street "illegally" defending themselves from the pigs, the labor movement sit-ins and walk-outs would be nothing without people willing to claim what is theirs and take over the factories and shoot back at the Pinkertons. And the "moderate" elements, not always intentionally, but usually cede over total victory and give an implicit betrayal.
See: what liberals/state socialists do to anarchists, what union bureaucrats and leaders did to workers
 
2012-07-29 09:47:58 PM

puffy999: Gyrfalcon: , they dropped gambling and had to focus on drugs, hookers and strong-arming the unions.

Moral is: Racketeering orgs and gangs will always find ways to make money on whatever is illegal and easy. Make something legal, so that people don't need to come to them, and they'll have to shift to something else. But that's NOT a reason to keep things illegal. Sure, the cartels would have to switch to something else--they're selling pot and meth because it's easy and cheap. Make pot legal, and they'll have to find a new money generator. Why keep it easy for them, though? Make them find a new source and a new audience.

Maybe their next target would be the banking industry...

"Goldman Sachs CEO didn't pay his bill... collapse his kneecaps, Vinnie."


You say that like it would be a bad thing.
 
2012-07-29 09:55:20 PM

davidphogan: whidbey: What I mean is that you're likely to get more pro-legalization arguments out of them these days, and the only derp I've heard about how bad pot is tends to be from some self-righteous overzealous liberal.

In California the same groups who funded the anti-gay marriage thing were also funding anti prop 19 organizations, so I'd think you should pay more attention. Lots of fundies still think it's the devil's weed.


You know who else was against legalizing pot?

Medical marijuana supporters.

Traitors.
 
2012-07-29 09:56:29 PM
"Just like alcohol"

Let's take that ball and run with it. If marijuana is "just like alcohol", then it should have the same laws apply to it. Age 18-21 to purchase, and it's illegal to drive under the influence or be intoxicated in public. I can live with that.
 
2012-07-29 10:01:21 PM

xaks: 2.) For weed to be used publically, there needs to actual impairment testing for driving privs. For that to happen, 80% of folks over 70 would lose their wheels.


As a Florida resident, I would absolutely love for that to happen.

I've smoked a few times. Didn't see all the hype about it. It just made me giggle and not want to do a damn thing but eat. And I was totally on board with the people who say it's harmless. But one day a friend of mine was smoking outside of my house while watching her 3-year-old daughter play in the yard. The little girl took off running towards the busy road and my friend just sat there laughing about it. Fortunately her boyfriend (also high as hell) saw her through the kitchen window and bolted after her. When he brought her back, my friend just said, "Wow, you're fast!" I think it was that moment that I decided not to touch the stuff again.

Until about 2 years later. It made playing golf way more fun.
 
2012-07-29 10:02:36 PM

signaljammer: I just don't think cannabis impairs in a like manner to alcohol. High doses are a little unpleasant, so one just eases up. Only through oral administration, and even then only with effort, does it seem possible to become anything like drunk.


Says you. Back when I used to smoke pot, if I stopped for a bit and then went back to it and did too much, I would suffer intense nausea, dizziness, and shock-like symptoms (tunnel-vision, numbness in extremities, cold flashes, intense perspiration). It was not pleasant, and the only saving grace was that it rarely lasted longer than an hour or two, unlike alcohol poisoning.
 
2012-07-29 10:06:23 PM

Novart: You know who else was against legalizing pot?

Medical marijuana supporters sellers.

Traitors.



Lets get that straight. Those assholes voting against medical cannabis were doing so to keep profits at all time highs, looser laws=less profit for them.

To assume that all medical patients wanted to keep cannabis illegal would be absurd.
 
2012-07-29 10:06:57 PM

TiiiMMMaHHH: Captain_Ballbeard: Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!lost taxes.

FTFY

It cant be regulated, therefore it wont be legalized. the one thing alcohol and tobacco have in common are that they involve specialized, mechanized, curing and refining processes. This makes it incredibly easy to regulate and tax wholly. Taxing mary jane would be on the honor system.


I disagree. Most smokers do not want or have the time to grow their own. Taxing would work, as it has with medical marijuana in the states that allow it.
 
2012-07-29 10:09:38 PM

puffy999: Gyrfalcon: , they dropped gambling and had to focus on drugs, hookers and strong-arming the unions.

Moral is: Racketeering orgs and gangs will always find ways to make money on whatever is illegal and easy. Make something legal, so that people don't need to come to them, and they'll have to shift to something else. But that's NOT a reason to keep things illegal. Sure, the cartels would have to switch to something else--they're selling pot and meth because it's easy and cheap. Make pot legal, and they'll have to find a new money generator. Why keep it easy for them, though? Make them find a new source and a new audience.

Maybe their next target would be the banking industry...

"Goldman Sachs CEO didn't pay his bill... collapse his kneecaps, Vinnie."


Actually, the banking industry got one of their ideas from organized crime. Bond rates on municipal projects.

/The banks muscled out the mafia.
 
2012-07-29 10:10:20 PM

D_Evans45: Novart: You know who else was against legalizing pot?

Medical marijuana supporters sellers.

Traitors.


Lets get that straight. Those assholes voting against medical cannabis were doing so to keep profits at all time highs, looser laws=less profit for them.

To assume that all medical patients wanted to keep cannabis illegal would be absurd.


They convinced many supporters - sorry if I wasn't clear.

I am after all a medical user myself. My sellers are great - stemless Blue Dream shake for $50 an ounce mmmm.
 
2012-07-29 10:11:52 PM

xaks: As much as I agree that pot being treated as it is now is bullshiat, there's several reasons it won't be de-criminalized, period:

1.) Some folks (lawyers, prisons, law enforcement, politicians, alcohol and tobacco sellers, etc) either make too much money from, or have their jobs depend on, weed being kept as it is now.

2.) For weed to be used publically, there needs to actual impairment testing for driving privs. For that to happen, 80% of folks over 70 would lose their wheels. Old people vote. Never happen.

I have smoked weed exactly four times in my life, all over two decades ago, so I have no interest personally if it is legal or not.

But until the points above are handled, it will not change, facts be damned.


How much does it cost your state for an average trial and sentencing for possession? Guess what, you DO have an interest. It's called your tax money.
 
2012-07-29 10:13:49 PM
Author of article: Paul Armentano is the Deputy Director of NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws)

yeah... non biased, I'm sure.
 
2012-07-29 10:15:11 PM

imfallen_angel: Author of article: Paul Armentano is the Deputy Director of NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws)

yeah... non biased, I'm sure.


Who isn't biased?
 
2012-07-29 10:19:48 PM

OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot


field tests for alcohol are notoriously inaccurate as well so, that argument doesn't fly far with me. How about we consider pot use a mitigating circumstance and we hold people accountable for their actions just as if they weren't on drugs, which is supposed to be the standard anyway? It's not as if people get cut a break for being on drugs and committing crimes now, so just treat them like they were sober and make them accountable for whatever damage they do just like any other person who commits any other crime, why is this so hard to accept?
 
2012-07-29 10:22:11 PM

Mr. Potatoass: I quit smoking pot from 1980, to 2008.
I seems to have gotten a little stronger, in that time.


Which only means you dont have to smoke as much of it to get the same effect. You cant OD on weed. The worst thing that can happen is you fall asleep.. not pass out like drinking too much.. just napping.
 
2012-07-29 10:34:22 PM
i would rather have the guy driving in the lane opposite me
high as a kite on weed instead of drunk off his ass.

tests have shown that people who are just high
can compensate.
 
2012-07-29 10:36:12 PM

UseLessHuman: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

field tests for alcohol are notoriously inaccurate as well so, that argument doesn't fly far with me. How about we consider pot use a mitigating circumstance and we hold people accountable for their actions just as if they weren't on drugs, which is supposed to be the standard anyway? It's not as if people get cut a break for being on drugs and committing crimes now, so just treat them like they were sober and make them accountable for whatever damage they do just like any other person who commits any other crime, why is this so hard to accept?


Where I live (not in the US), we don't have field tests for sobriety. The cop just asks you to blow into a hand-held machine to test your alcohol level, and there is a saliva test for cannabis and amphetamines. In the case of the saliva test, it apparently returns a positive if you've smoked dope within the previous five hours. There were some teething problems with accuracy in the early days of the tests a few years ago, but I haven't heard of many complaints since then. I think the cost of the saliva test is around $40 per go.

So the technology is there. Unless I've missed something, which is entirely possible.
 
2012-07-29 10:41:39 PM
I am still waiting to hear about the drawbacks of weed that potheads don't talk about.

Not that i partake, it's just a question that remains unanswered.
 
2012-07-29 10:42:17 PM
About once or twice a year I try pot again, just to make sure I'm not going to get the same look of bliss and relaxation that I see my smoker buddies get.
But, alas, I never do. It just makes me paranoid, edgy and I over-think everything.
I would guess that most people that have a problem with weed are like me. Chemically incompatible.

/Another round, please...
 
2012-07-29 10:50:56 PM

Mr.Bobo: [farm4.staticflickr.com image 426x640]

Its a plant... Legalize it...


I farking hate that argument. If plants are good, how about you eat a death angel toadstool? The fact that it is a plant is as relevant to the discussion as the fact that the sky is blue. Stop being an idiot and maybe one day people will take you seriously.
 
2012-07-29 10:57:19 PM

Aussie_As: UseLessHuman: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

field tests for alcohol are notoriously inaccurate as well so, that argument doesn't fly far with me. How about we consider pot use a mitigating circumstance and we hold people accountable for their actions just as if they weren't on drugs, which is supposed to be the standard anyway? It's not as if people get cut a break for being on drugs and committing crimes now, so just treat them like they were sober and make them accountable for whatever damage they do just like any other person who commits any other crime, why is this so hard to accept?

Where I live (not in the US), we don't have field tests for sobriety. The cop just asks you to blow into a hand-held machine to test your alcohol level, and there is a saliva test for cannabis and amphetamines. In the case of the saliva test, it apparently returns a positive if you've smoked dope within the previous five hours. There were some teething problems with accuracy in the early days of the tests a few years ago, but I haven't heard of many complaints since then. I think the cost of the saliva test is around $40 per go.

So the technology is there. Unless I've missed something, which is entirely possible.


The problem is, when it comes to driving while stoned, they can't easily prove you're impaired...mostly because unless the person is REALLY REALLY stoned, they're just not impaired. This frustrates authorities, because the presumption is "If you've smoked pot, you're impaired," which is not true. Kind of like drinking: You can have had one or two drinks, and not be impaired (and hence not get stopped).

Since clinical testing of pot is illegal, there's no way to prove this, of course, so there can be no minimum level of pot which is acceptable, like there is with alcohol, where it can be shown via letting volunteers drink and then drive an obstacle course that there is a threshold level of impairment (.08 standard).

Unless or until the feds loosen up the standard and allow clinical testing of pot, we won't get a rational answer to this argument. however. Until researchers can do impairment testing on pot like they do on alcohol, well, there can be no "safe" amount of pot to smoke before you can be busted.
 
2012-07-29 10:58:25 PM
Some of you does are harshing my buzz. Don't worry douches, I don't want to be anywhere near people like you when I'm high.

Why waste good weed?
 
2012-07-29 11:02:49 PM

spman: Explodo: spman: I love the idealist argument that if you legalize pot, all the gang members, mobsters, and dealers involved in it's trade are just going accept the fact that they've been put out if business and move on. What will happen is either

A. The taxes will make weed so expensive that the black market for it will continue to flourish, and probably get bigger, exacerbating the problems associated with this

Or B. The market for black market weed will collapse entirely, and the dealers will just start pushing coke and heroin instead.


Your assumptions are flawed and here are some points you should consider:

A) Marijuana is so easy to grow that everyone would know where to get it cheaply
Even if you weren't growing it yourself, you'd likely know someone who was who'd probably just give you some.
B) Everyone who smokes pot would go on to do some other more dangerous drug
The gangs' customer base would shrink drastically.

So you admit that the potential tax revenue often claimed by those in favor of legalization are exaggerted at best, and complete nonsense at worst? And no, I'm not making a slippery slope argumet about weed leading to harder drugs. I'm arguing that harder drugs will become more pervasive since the former weed dealers will end up having to turn to something else to pay the bills.


It only matters what you're selling if there are buyers. The majority of people I've ever known who would smoke pot were never interested in drugs any harder than that.
 
2012-07-29 11:03:37 PM

EbolaNYC: Some of you does are harshing my buzz. Don't worry douches, I don't want to be anywhere near people like you when I'm high.

Why waste good weed?


Does? You calling us deer?
 
2012-07-29 11:06:16 PM

Novart: EbolaNYC: Some of you does are harshing my buzz. Don't worry douches, I don't want to be anywhere near people like you when I'm high.

Why waste good weed?

Does? You calling us deer?


Wow, pot really does make you see things. Maybe it should stay illegal.
 
2012-07-29 11:10:32 PM

Asa Phelps: I am still waiting to hear about the drawbacks of weed that potheads don't talk about.

Not that i partake, it's just a question that remains unanswered.


The big drawback for me when I smoked years ago was the company I was keeping. Not everyone was trustworthy. Seemed like everyone thought everyone else was a snitch. Fark that noise.
 
HBK
2012-07-29 11:15:12 PM
I know you're probably a troll, but your posts are just so damned ignorant, I felt the need to comment:

archichris: Oops, you have a business so you have liability insurance, which means if someone is injured or dies on one of your scooters and a lawyer remembers your little anecdote, he can sue you and your insurance company for negligence brought on by your admitted drug use. You might be fooling yourself, but the rest of us know whats going on.


You are obviously an idiot and have no idea how insurance or the law works.

archichris: Imma make you a list of all the jobs you wont be getting because of legal cannabis use......

1- Every job that pays more than $50,000 $20-60K a year


FTFY. Once you're above low-level management, you don't get drug tested unless you work with government contracts. I haven't been tested since I was 19 years old. Once you're above a certain level, people don't give a shiat if you get your work done and don't come to work farked up.


archichris: 1- Potheads smell bad.

2- With a few notable exceptions among celebrities, Potheads are losers who seem preoccupied with telling you how awesome weed is.

3- Potheads are the least interesting drug addicts to talk to.

4- We all know what a bong looks like, you aren't fooling anyone dumbshiat.

5- No you really aren't expanding your mind.


You need to expand your mind. There are lots of VPs, CEOs, lawyers, judges, engineers, etc. who smoke regularly. They just have more common sense than to talk about it or let it consume their lives. You must be really sheltered or a highschool or college student. Lots of people who are far more successful than you will be smoke.

/I don't smoke
//know lots of successful people who do
 
2012-07-29 11:26:58 PM

Asa Phelps: I am still waiting to hear about the drawbacks of weed that potheads don't talk about.

Not that i partake, it's just a question that remains unanswered.


Good question. I've definitely stacked on weight, some due to beer but much due to higher (and unhealthier) food consumption. I don't think smoking affects my sex drive, but if I quit cold turkey for a while after a long time of smoking, I lose my sex drive for 3 or 4 days. I've been employed throughout my smoking periods, sometimes in busy and stressful jobs, without my employer noticing if I'm stoned or not. Sadly, I'm much more interested in positively interacting with my step-kids when stoned than not, and events like supporting the kids at sport or school musicals is much better stoned. Being regularly stoned gives me a bit more BO, but nothing a midday refresher of deodourant can't fix.

So weight-gain is probably the big one for me. I'm borderline obese these days, despite walking about 6 hours per week. Cutting food consumption isn't easy when you've got the munchies.

I first smoked at age 23. I've got numerous friends who don't partake, on the basis they were right into it at age 16/17, and found themselves hanging out with wasters one too many times and thus quit. Never a problem I've experienced as an adult smoker.
 
2012-07-29 11:28:13 PM
Paranoid, lazy and overweight is no way to through life, son...but it can be a fine way to spend a Friday evening.
 
2012-07-29 11:29:10 PM

HBK: archichris: 1- Potheads smell bad.

2- With a few notable exceptions among celebrities, Potheads are losers who seem preoccupied with telling you how awesome weed is.

3- Potheads are the least interesting drug addicts to talk to.

4- We all know what a bong looks like, you aren't fooling anyone dumbshiat.

5- No you really aren't expanding your mind.

You need to expand your mind. There are lots of VPs, CEOs, lawyers, judges, engineers, etc. who smoke regularly. They just have more common sense than to talk about it or let it consume their lives. You must be really sheltered or a highschool or college student. Lots of people who are far more successful than you will be smoke.

/I don't smoke
//know lots of successful people who do


Nearly every chef I've worked with, and that includes at Glendale Arena for the Phoenix Coyotes, and certainly the regional chef for AZ and Colorado who was making about $275K a year, have smoked pot. On a regular basis. It certainly includes the corporate chef in charge of the West Coast operations for one of the most successful food service companies in the nation--all 50 states, and 18 countries.

It certainly includes my former boss, who started off a t-shirt business in Western Mass in college, and expanded it into not just real estate, but owning four clubs, three large venues, and the biggest ticket business in the area--which is where he got the idea of owning the clubs, so that he controlled who sold the tickets to the clubs, and manages a booking agency.

It certainly includes my own father, who in his 40s apprenticed to Jack Armstrong, the father of the modern tattoo gun. He was Jack's last apprentice, and he is one of the few Americans who regularly appears on the Dublin Tattoo Convention to teach Celtic knotwork.

Pot is a great excuse for folks. It is a great way to excuse not doing more, and blame the weed for being foggy and unfocused. It is like any other drug though--folks can use it and function, and even excel, if they have a mind to do so. It can be a crutch, certainly, to excuse oneself from being a more active participant in life. But then again, so can alcohol or cocaine or even cough syrup for that matter.
 
2012-07-29 11:29:33 PM

Aussie_As: So weight-gain is probably the big one for me. I'm borderline obese these days, despite walking about 6 hours per week. Cutting food consumption isn't easy when you've got the munchies.


Your weight gain has exactly jack-all to do with smoking marijuana and everything to do with the fact that you probably don't exercise.

Thanks for feeding the troll, person who disagrees with you on Fark, though.
 
2012-07-29 11:35:40 PM
In Russia they were never that big on banning substances. India and China never got to worked up about hemp neither, as they were used to it being a factor in their societies. I can speak to the Slavonic idea a little more naturally however: Substances don't have magic power!

People (such as myself, perhaps) who habitually overindulge, are in some kind of (typically family) pain, the surcease of which becomes an interest that transcends the pragmatic goals. In my opinion, these individuals are pre-disposed, and their avoidal of clarity is likely going to be achieved (or at least sought) through one mechanism or another.
 
2012-07-29 11:37:41 PM

havana_joe: If it's illegal you shouldn't do it. Case closed.


THANK YOU! No one has any respect for the law anymore! Things really went to hell when they let these criminals slide:

upload.wikimedia.org
upload.wikimedia.org
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-07-29 11:44:39 PM

whidbey: Aussie_As: So weight-gain is probably the big one for me. I'm borderline obese these days, despite walking about 6 hours per week. Cutting food consumption isn't easy when you've got the munchies.

Your weight gain has exactly jack-all to do with smoking marijuana and everything to do with the fact that you probably don't exercise.

Thanks for feeding the troll, person who disagrees with you on Fark, though.


I thought the question was reasonable. The question assumed there are some negatives to smoking cannabis (does this maketh the troll?), but I gave an honest reply. Even when I got more exercise (eg cycling up a nasty hill three or four times per week) a few years ago, I was still gaining weight.

You are correct that I could definitely do more exercise than currently, and it is also correct to say that my weight gain is not directly caused by smoking, but is associated with my failure-of-willpower to ignore my body's desire to gain fat as part of the process of getting the chemicals in the smoke out of my system. THC and the other chemicals are highly fat-soluble.
 
2012-07-29 11:45:32 PM

whidbey: The really embarrassing thing is that subby is very likely a flaming liberal in most political threads.

Most righties don't give a f*ck about pot legalization. It really rustles the jimmies of some of our more liberal-than-thou posters, though. I guess I should find that funny or something.



Goddamn rob reiner.
 
2012-07-29 11:46:01 PM

Jument: Mr.Bobo: [farm4.staticflickr.com image 426x640]

Its a plant... Legalize it...

I farking hate that argument. If plants are good, how about you eat a death angel toadstool? The fact that it is a plant is as relevant to the discussion as the fact that the sky is blue. Stop being an idiot and maybe one day people will take you seriously.



Would a death angel toadstool relax you for 2 hours, and provide medical relief? It is relevant because it is a naturally occurring substance with known medicinal benefits scheduled alongside real drugs like meth, crack, and PCP. Which are of course chemically manufactured in clandestine labs by real hardened criminals who actually perpetrate real serious crimes.


it really is a harmless plant, more of a medicine to many, that Americans have used for years. The fact that the government would wage a huge war at your expense against it to the tune of $8+ billion annually is pretty silly.
 
2012-07-29 11:50:39 PM

Aussie_As: UseLessHuman: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

field tests for alcohol are notoriously inaccurate as well so, that argument doesn't fly far with me. How about we consider pot use a mitigating circumstance and we hold people accountable for their actions just as if they weren't on drugs, which is supposed to be the standard anyway? It's not as if people get cut a break for being on drugs and committing crimes now, so just treat them like they were sober and make them accountable for whatever damage they do just like any other person who commits any other crime, why is this so hard to accept?

Where I live (not in the US), we don't have field tests for sobriety. The cop just asks you to blow into a hand-held machine to test your alcohol level, and there is a saliva test for cannabis and amphetamines. In the case of the saliva test, it apparently returns a positive if you've smoked dope within the previous five hours. There were some teething problems with accuracy in the early days of the tests a few years ago, but I haven't heard of many complaints since then. I think the cost of the saliva test is around $40 per go.

So the technology is there. Unless I've missed something, which is entirely possible.


The field test i was referring to WAS the breath test as mentioned in the link provided. The point I was making is that we don't need a test for pot at all, you either break the law or you don't and you are accountable for your actions. They don't give you extra jail time for not getting enough sleep the night before or just not paying attention why do you get a harder sentence because you had pot in your system? Saliva tests? If I've done something so serious you simply must determine if I was influenced by a substance then it's serious enough to take me to a hospital for a full and (more)accurate test.

I'm 31 and been smoking pot off and on since I was 16. I have never been involved in a traffic accident while "under the influence" of pot. I am not an exceptional case, it's because a bad driver on pot is still a bad driver, and a good driver on pot is still a good driver. I know the war on drugs propaganda would tell you this is impossible but I tell you it is true and my entire adult life experience tells me this is so.
 
2012-07-29 11:52:20 PM

Benni K Rok: xaks: As much as I agree that pot being treated as it is now is bullshiat, there's several reasons it won't be de-criminalized, period:

1.) Some folks (lawyers, prisons, law enforcement, politicians, alcohol and tobacco sellers, etc) either make too much money from, or have their jobs depend on, weed being kept as it is now.

2.) For weed to be used publically, there needs to actual impairment testing for driving privs. For that to happen, 80% of folks over 70 would lose their wheels. Old people vote. Never happen.

I have smoked weed exactly four times in my life, all over two decades ago, so I have no interest personally if it is legal or not.

But until the points above are handled, it will not change, facts be damned.

How much does it cost your state for an average trial and sentencing for possession? Guess what, you DO have an interest. It's called your tax money.


I agree 100% with your point.

MY point was that if it were legalized tomorrow, I would not be going out and buying it. I'm not buying it now. Thus, the *direct* interest is nil.

Indirectly, you're 100% right, and I am 100^ on board with safe, intelligent legalization and regulation an, by extension, TAXATION, of weed.

Plus, it would outsell alcohol and tobacco in a short amount of time, and piss off LOTS of conservative cockwallets, which I am also 100% in favor of.
 
2012-07-29 11:59:41 PM

archichris: santadog: Fano: Getting high leads to telling longwinded pointless stories and engineering bongs out of anything your stoned mind can conceive from tools at hand.

For me it led to starting a summer seasonal scooter rental business near a national park that allows me to have 8 months off a year to bum around the country and take photographs of cool stuff.
/but that's just me.

Oops, you have a business so you have liability insurance, which means if someone is injured or dies on one of your scooters and a lawyer remembers your little anecdote, he can sue you and your insurance company for negligence brought on by your admitted drug use. You might be fooling yourself, but the rest of us know whats going on.


I live in the state of Colorado. I have a card for legitimate use: Spinal fusion of L4 and L5 with chronic nerve pain. How does my back pain relate to someone driving a scooter off a cliff?
Right.

Your anecdote was also cute.
 
2012-07-30 12:01:05 AM
xaks: it would outsell alcohol and tobacco in a short amount of time

These are three completely different drugs. Tobacco keeps its sales up by being very addictive. Alcohol sells because it has a strong (generally euphoric) effect. Cannabis is much more subtle than alcohol and its effects depend a lot on the mental state of the user. I'm not convinced that legalizing cannabis would actually have much effect on the sales of tobacco or alcohol.
 
2012-07-30 12:06:04 AM

whidbey: way south: The real reason Marijuana remains illegal:

[dl.dropbox.com image 320x283]

It fills every law enforcement agency's coffers full of gold.

/Want to change it? Form a lobby and give cash to your congressman.
/If you don't learn the corruption game, don't complain when change never happens.

Actually, we don't need to go that route, there's plenty of available activism but thanks for sharing.


Oh yes, I certainly see that.
...It just seems to be taking a while, what with all the politicians running their usual "tough on drug crime" shtick.

/Keep at it tho.
/I'll suggest the corruption route again in a decade.
 
2012-07-30 12:06:12 AM

BronyMedic: Marijuana should be legalized and taxed, the same as alcohol and cigs. Not only would it bring in millions of dollars for the state and federal governments, it would eliminate a large subset of crime, both violent and non, and free up our prison and penal system from thousands of frivolous cases each year.

But, that said, let's not pretend that Marijuana is completely harmless. It has the same level of harm as long-term tobacco use. And you really don't want to use it if you're schizophrenic.


Reading the article, I would say there are some who disagree with you.
 
2012-07-30 12:11:04 AM

Aussie_As: Even when I got more exercise (eg cycling up a nasty hill three or four times per week) a few years ago, I was still gaining weight.


And very likely taking in more calories daily than you were burning them by riding your bike.

But you're welcome to show me where marijuana causes weight gain by itself.

You are correct that I could definitely do more exercise than currently, and it is also correct to say that my weight gain is not directly caused by smoking, but is associated with my failure-of-willpower to ignore my body's desire to gain fat as part of the process of getting the chemicals in the smoke out of my system. THC and the other chemicals are highly fat-soluble.

Citations needed.
 
2012-07-30 12:23:51 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: tomWright: Cannabis has been responsible for, (last time I checked), exactly 0 deaths from overdose.

About the only ways cannabis can kill you is if:
A bale of it falls on your head
An organized crime gangster kills you in a dispute involving it
An overzealous drug cop kills you in a dispute involving it
You light yourself on fire in a strange accident involving a joint, lighter fluid and a malfunctioning barbeque while attempting to satisfy your munchies
Cheetos overdose, which is no laughing matter


Legalize it, regulate it, make it safe

Hey, the spiral Cheetos can be terribly dangerous if you OD on them. Which sucks, because I frekaing love the spiral Cheetos and will often binge on them, making my tummy hate me.

/dangerously cheesy


Hehe, actually... you can die from smoking the cigarette version is not packaged right. Remember, not all makers of magic sticks are up-standing citizens. Some of the marijuana can be laced with coke, speed, or worse. Medical Marijuana probably wouldn't have this issue because it'd be made by a company. (not saying it would)

There is a published study that states long-term, heavy marijuana use leads to memory loss and mild brain trauma, Here: Link. You supposedly can die from OD on marijuana, BUT it has to be 40,000 times more smoked or eaten than what is currently done. basically, in the amount of time it takes to consume 1, you'd have to consume 40k. Only way that might happen is if a marijuana farm catches fire.
 
2012-07-30 12:24:52 AM

Nina Haagen Dazs: Asa Phelps: I am still waiting to hear about the drawbacks of weed that potheads don't talk about.

Not that i partake, it's just a question that remains unanswered.

The big drawback for me when I smoked years ago was the company I was keeping. Not everyone was trustworthy. Seemed like everyone thought everyone else was a snitch. Fark that noise.


Problems with pothead culture would largely be ameliorated by decriminalization.
 
2012-07-30 12:25:49 AM

whidbey: Aussie_As: Even when I got more exercise (eg cycling up a nasty hill three or four times per week) a few years ago, I was still gaining weight.

And very likely taking in more calories daily than you were burning them by riding your bike.

But you're welcome to show me where marijuana causes weight gain by itself.

You are correct that I could definitely do more exercise than currently, and it is also correct to say that my weight gain is not directly caused by smoking, but is associated with my failure-of-willpower to ignore my body's desire to gain fat as part of the process of getting the chemicals in the smoke out of my system. THC and the other chemicals are highly fat-soluble.

Citations needed.


Ah, well done. My GIS came up with a bunch of reasons why my comments appear to be wrong, according to studies. I must have been relying on folklore. Sorry.
 
2012-07-30 12:30:20 AM
m2313
chaoswolf: fark the market and fark the government. I should be able to grow it in the back yard next to the tomatoes.

This. This. Motherfarkin' THIS.


Maybe you hippy libs will think about that the next time you are celebrating the Civil War. And abortion. And gay rights. Just think about it, the right to govern yourself at th state level....waht do we call that...hmmmm...oh yeah, state rights
 
2012-07-30 12:41:27 AM

erupt2001: Barbecue Bob: Many people die from alcohol use. Nobody dies from marijuana use.
People die from alcohol overdoses. There has never been a fatal marijuana overdose.
Alcohol use damages the brain. Marijuana use does not.
The health-related costs associated with alcohol use far exceed those for marijuana use.
Alcohol use is linked to cancer. Marijuana use is not.
Alcohol is more addictive than marijuana.
Alcohol use increases the risk of injury to the consumer. Marijuana use does not.
Alcohol use contributes to aggressive and violent behavior. Marijuana use does not.
Alcohol use is a major factor in violent crimes. Marijuana use is not.
Alcohol use contributes to the likelihood of domestic abuse and sexual assault. Marijuana use does not.

//citation; http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

/Eat a cock trollmitter.

Oh yeah, that website is a totally unbiased and credible source. Case closed, time to legalize it.


I'm guessing it's better than any source you have to refute it.
Show me if I'm wrong.
 
2012-07-30 12:46:52 AM

whidbey: marijuana is, in fact, a drug that impairs judgment and shouldn't be treated lightly, just like alcohol

Citation needed.


Michael Phelps

/done
 
2012-07-30 01:04:46 AM

People_are_Idiots: There is a published study that states long-term, heavy marijuana use leads to memory loss and mild brain trauma, Here: Link. You supposedly can die from OD on marijuana, BUT it has to be 40,000 times more smoked or eaten than what is currently done. basically, in the amount of time it takes to consume 1, you'd have to consume 40k. Only way that might happen is if a marijuana farm catches fire.



i.e. "You're waaay more likely to be randomly crushed by a bale of cannabis falling from the sky than ever die from consuming cannabis". The fact that you even mention "facts" like this in conjunction with your argument makes it hard to take seriously. The article you sourced states that the participants in the study used at least 5 joints a day for over 10 years, they found the Tommy Chongs of society to compare against sober people years younger. 5 joints is a lot of weed to smoke in a day; assuming you roll a gram into a modest sized joint (about average) you're smoking well over a quarter pound a month.

The percentage of cannabis users who routinely consume over a quarter pound a month of cannabis is farking tiny. This is the population of the society that is taking out a handle of liquor every day. Sure these people exist, but these are by no means a representation of the population as a whole. Even your site concludes on that note:

""Although modest use may not lead to significant neurotoxic effects, these results suggest that heavy daily use might indeed be toxic to human brain tissue," Dr Yücel said."


As an aside, I randomly checked a couple links off the main page of your science site, and I got anti-climate science rhetoric from both. Conservative science would of course find a problem with cannabis. It's like getting your news from Fox versus the rest of the media, it's gonna have that spin on it.
 
2012-07-30 01:21:24 AM

skatedrifter: Pot is legal here in Denver, so I'm getting a kick out of these comments.


Yup, decriminalized here in Philly. Things pretty much stayed the same. It's almost like it was always here and nothing really changed...

Except for the tens of millions of dollars the city saved on court costs.
 
2012-07-30 01:25:33 AM
Never been black out high. Never been so high I couldn't walk. Marihuana is nothing like alcohol. Alcohol is a terrifying whore beast that ruins thanksgiving and vomits on children. That being said, I love Guinness.
 
2012-07-30 01:40:49 AM

whidbey: marijuana is, in fact, a drug that impairs judgment and shouldn't be treated lightly, just like alcohol

Citation needed.


You need citation that getting high impairs you?

Or you need citation that getting high should be done in moderation and only when/where appropriate, like alcohol?

I swear some of pot's interweb defenders have either never gotten high, or have spent so much time high they now lack the ability to make any unbiased judgments about it.
 
2012-07-30 01:43:19 AM

OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot


Stop playing devils advocate. You do a shiatty job at it.

police had motor skills tests long before the breathalyzer - and they are more accurately able to judge actual impairment than bac anyways because they measure impairment directly.
 
2012-07-30 01:46:16 AM

D_Evans45: People_are_Idiots: There is a published study that states long-term, heavy marijuana use leads to memory loss and mild brain trauma, Here: Link. You supposedly can die from OD on marijuana, BUT it has to be 40,000 times more smoked or eaten than what is currently done. basically, in the amount of time it takes to consume 1, you'd have to consume 40k. Only way that might happen is if a marijuana farm catches fire.


i.e. "You're waaay more likely to be randomly crushed by a bale of cannabis falling from the sky than ever die from consuming cannabis". The fact that you even mention "facts" like this in conjunction with your argument makes it hard to take seriously. The article you sourced states that the participants in the study used at least 5 joints a day for over 10 years, they found the Tommy Chongs of society to compare against sober people years younger. 5 joints is a lot of weed to smoke in a day; assuming you roll a gram into a modest sized joint (about average) you're smoking well over a quarter pound a month.


Most of the pot smokers I know use the ever famous "water bongs" and inhale the fumes. Also, I didn't say DIE from long term use... I said loss of memory functions. The amount of pot it takes to theoretically die from OD would be equivalent to 140,000 hits in the time frame of one cigarette. In other words, you can't do it UNLESS forced (no one can inhale that much MJ smoke by choice). The only real way to die from "smoking weed": some of the less-reputable dealers don't exactly use the best methods of cutting weed, and sometimes another drug can get mixed in (remember that most places still outlaw distribution), ie you wouldn't die from the MJ, you die from coke/crack/heroin/etc. Learn to read, please?

Also, I looked more at the site, and found articles like an article talking on the CO2 content and the change in climate, and How UV-B radiation is affecting marine life. It's a friggin Aussie science news site, not Daily Mail.
 
2012-07-30 01:52:30 AM

whidbey: OgreMagi: One of the barriers to getting pot legalized is a viable method of measuring how much someone has consumed and setting what constitutes impairment. We need a pot equivalent of the BAC test.

/I don't smoke pot

Obviously.


Finally, no matter how easy it is to grow there would still be a market for pre rolled.

There is a market for snuggies ffs. We are lazy, lazy people.
 
2012-07-30 02:34:56 AM

AssAsInAssassin: I have another friend, no mental illness, who just flat out quit because it made him paranoid and uneasy


Did he think people were trying to put him in jail?
 
2012-07-30 02:43:26 AM

Jument: Mr.Bobo: [farm4.staticflickr.com image 426x640]

Its a plant... Legalize it...

I farking hate that argument. If plants are good, how about you eat a death angel toadstool? The fact that it is a plant is as relevant to the discussion as the fact that the sky is blue. Stop being an idiot and maybe one day people will take you seriously.


Is it illegal to do so?

/also fungi
 
2012-07-30 02:57:03 AM

People_are_Idiots: Most of the pot smokers I know use the ever famous "water bongs" and inhale the fumes. Also, I didn't say DIE from long term use... I said loss of memory functions.


Uh yeah, you were talking some nonsense about needing 40,000x the pot normally smoked to get high. Are you taking some kind of intoxicants that are impairing your judgment?


The amount of pot it takes to theoretically die from OD would be equivalent to 140,000 hits in the time frame of one cigarette. In other words, you can't do it UNLESS forced (no one can inhale that much MJ smoke by choice). The only real way to die from "smoking weed": some of the less-reputable dealers don't exactly use the best methods of cutting weed, and sometimes another drug can get mixed in (remember that most places still outlaw distribution), ie you wouldn't die from the MJ, you die from coke/crack/heroin/etc. whargarbl garbl


You must be drunk, or just a rambling fool. First of all, people dont cut cannabis, you'd be an idiot to assume such a thing is common practice across America. Second, lacing cannabis bowl is not a common practice among street dealers and their customers. Drug dealing is about profit. Smearing your $60/gram heroin over a $10/gram joint of weed nets you $-50. Even Paco Gangmember can see that loss. Also, you don't think a cannabis user is going to notice the weed he is packing into his pipe is laden with enough cocaine or heroin to theoretically kill him? These guys are making sure each bong bowl is stem free, lethal brown or white rocks definitely draw attention. And let's not forget the important fact that neither cocaine or heroin can be smoked in a manner like cannabis to begin with, and therefore would be burned off harmlessly.


The way that youre going on about cutting weed and laced overdoses as if they are some real threat shows your ignorance on the subject. Its safe to assume youve been out of the game for quite awhile. Why dont you leave the talk to people with recent relevant experience that they arent blowing out of their asses?

/Also where the fark are you going with the 140,000 hit bullshiat? Have you any idea the volume of smoke that would entail? Nobody could do it forced or otherwise, not physically possible
 
2012-07-30 03:30:28 AM

D_Evans45: People_are_Idiots: Most of the pot smokers I know use the ever famous "water bongs" and inhale the fumes. Also, I didn't say DIE from long term use... I said loss of memory functions.

Uh yeah, you were talking some nonsense about needing 40,000x the pot normally smoked to get high. Are you taking some kind of intoxicants that are impairing your judgment?


The amount of pot it takes to theoretically die from OD would be equivalent to 140,000 hits in the time frame of one cigarette. In other words, you can't do it UNLESS forced (no one can inhale that much MJ smoke by choice). The only real way to die from "smoking weed": some of the less-reputable dealers don't exactly use the best methods of cutting weed, and sometimes another drug can get mixed in (remember that most places still outlaw distribution), ie you wouldn't die from the MJ, you die from coke/crack/heroin/etc. whargarbl garbl

You must be drunk, or just a rambling fool. First of all, people dont cut cannabis, you'd be an idiot to assume such a thing is common practice across America. Second, lacing cannabis bowl is not a common practice among street dealers and their customers. Drug dealing is about profit. Smearing your $60/gram heroin over a $10/gram joint of weed nets you $-50. Even Paco Gangmember can see that loss. Also, you don't think a cannabis user is going to notice the weed he is packing into his pipe is laden with enough cocaine or heroin to theoretically kill him? These guys are making sure each bong bowl is stem free, lethal brown or white rocks definitely draw attention. And let's not forget the important fact that neither cocaine or heroin can be smoked in a manner like cannabis to begin with, and therefore would be burned off harmlessly.


The way that youre going on about cutting weed and laced overdoses as if they are some real threat shows your ignorance on the subject. Its safe to assume youve been out of the game for quite awhile. Why dont you leave the talk to people with recent ...


Considering I hear about the deaths still common around here, it's not over with. Only way to eliminate most risks is to simply legalize it. For the info on the lethal (though unlikely) dose of marijuana: Link
 
2012-07-30 03:42:20 AM
Look, it took a bundle of money, one high powered lobbyist who didn't give a shiat either way and a lot of political pull to make the versatile plant illegal and once CONGRESS is bought -- it STAYS bought.

BTW. Henry Ford experimented with hemp in an early attempt to lighten his cars (or cheapen them, depending on your point of view) by making body panels. Had hemp flourished, we would not have so many forests chopped down and wouldn't have to put up with those sucky TV shows concerning modern loggers.

BTW. Don't really like pot myself -- unless I'm plastered -- but I don't mind anyone using it. Just so long as they treat it with the same caution as booze.

As for the lung thing -- well I doubt the findings as I found the stuff clogged up my tobacco pipes with resin faster than tobacco did and I know heavy users who developed a smokers cough. It might not be as dangerous, since no one has chosen to mass manufacture it with a bunch of crap added like Big Tobacco did with smokes.

I suspect the booze industry doesn't want the competition either, since even with new drinking laws and penalties, they advertise like mad and keep coming up with new, tasty looking drinks. Remember Ripple? Kids loved that stuff. More kids liked it than adults.

Pot leaves no miserable hangover either. Imagine, going out to party and NOT waking up the next morning feeling like you're gonna die and afraid that you might not.

No freaking way is Congress going to legalize the stuff in your lifetimes. Far too much money on both sides of the fence.
 
2012-07-30 04:06:28 AM

Wolf892: pxlboy: Wolf892: The only reason I don't want it legalized is because I know I wont be able to walk through the park or the halls of my apartment building or sit in a restaurant or pretty much go anywhere without having to smell the sickening stench of that crap. People will overuse it and there will be clouds of the stink seeping in everywhere.

Because smoking hasn't been banned in many public establishments? Settle down.

Doesn't help the apartment situation, or people walking around with it in their clothing, or at the parks. Its stench gets everywhere and I shouldn't have to be nauseated by it.


Oh? You're easily nauseated? You know what helps with nausea?
 
2012-07-30 04:46:08 AM

whidbey: marijuana is, in fact, a drug that impairs judgment and shouldn't be treated lightly, just like alcohol

Citation needed.


I am extremely stoned right now, but I am still coherently relative.
 
2012-07-30 05:29:23 AM

People_are_Idiots: D_Evans45: People_are_Idiots:
Most of the pot smokers I know use the ever famous "water bongs" and inhale the fumes. Also, I didn't say DIE from long term use... I said loss of memory functions. The amount of pot it takes to theoretically die from OD would be equivalent to 140,000 hits in the time frame of one cigarette. In other words, you can't do it UNLESS forced (no one can inhale that much MJ smoke by choice). The only real way to die from "smoking weed": some of the less-reputable dealers don't exactly use the best methods of cutting weed,


It's really your contention that smoking stems can kill you? You really think that your buddy from work you buy from and the grower/trimmer are the same person?

and sometimes another drug can get mixed in (remember that most places still outlaw distribution), ie you wouldn't die from the MJ, you die from coke/crack/heroin/etc. Learn to read, please?

It's really your contention that somehow drugs costing five times the price by weight somehow get accidentally "mixed in?" You clearly don't know any cokeheads.
 
2012-07-30 05:52:25 AM

Silly_Sot: "Just like alcohol"

Let's take that ball and run with it. If marijuana is "just like alcohol", then it should have the same laws apply to it. Age 18-21 to purchase, and it's illegal to drive under the influence or be intoxicated in public. I can live with that.


just like ALCOHOL wooooo

foodbeast.com
 
2012-07-30 05:53:25 AM

highwayrun: People_are_Idiots: D_Evans45: People_are_Idiots:
Most of the pot smokers I know use the ever famous "water bongs" and inhale the fumes. Also, I didn't say DIE from long term use... I said loss of memory functions. The amount of pot it takes to theoretically die from OD would be equivalent to 140,000 hits in the time frame of one cigarette. In other words, you can't do it UNLESS forced (no one can inhale that much MJ smoke by choice). The only real way to die from "smoking weed": some of the less-reputable dealers don't exactly use the best methods of cutting weed,

It's really your contention that smoking stems can kill you? You really think that your buddy from work you buy from and the grower/trimmer are the same person?

and sometimes another drug can get mixed in (remember that most places still outlaw distribution), ie you wouldn't die from the MJ, you die from coke/crack/heroin/etc. Learn to read, please?

It's really your contention that somehow drugs costing five times the price by weight somehow get accidentally "mixed in?" You clearly don't know any cokeheads.


you can DIE from crack? prove it!
 
2012-07-30 05:55:34 AM

highwayrun: People_are_Idiots: D_Evans45: People_are_Idiots:
Most of the pot smokers I know use the ever famous "water bongs" and inhale the fumes. Also, I didn't say DIE from long term use... I said loss of memory functions. The amount of pot it takes to theoretically die from OD would be equivalent to 140,000 hits in the time frame of one cigarette. In other words, you can't do it UNLESS forced (no one can inhale that much MJ smoke by choice). The only real way to die from "smoking weed": some of the less-reputable dealers don't exactly use the best methods of cutting weed,

It's really your contention that smoking stems can kill you? You really think that your buddy from work you buy from and the grower/trimmer are the same person?


Do you think a dealer just hands you the whole brick of marijuana? Someone's going to cut the brick into nickel/dime bags.

and sometimes another drug can get mixed in (remember that most places still outlaw distribution), ie you wouldn't die from the MJ, you die from coke/crack/heroin/etc. Learn to read, please?

It's really your contention that somehow drugs costing five times the price by weight somehow get accidentally "mixed in?" You clearly don't know any cokeheads.


Again and again.... some dealers don't necessarily use different tables for different drugs when they prepare, nor clean the tables after use. Here's an experiment for you: Cut peppers, onions, cinnamon sticks, and tomatoes, on the same cutting board and use the same knife without washing either... and eat the tomato slices.
 
2012-07-30 06:38:43 AM
Wow. Lotta fattie butthurt in here.

+337 Subby.
 
2012-07-30 06:50:08 AM

puffy999: Oh and to clarify, the reason I brought that up is because officers (if properly trained) should ask nearly before anything (other than asking about substances consumed) whether a person has a medical condition that may result in behavior that's odd or may simulate symptoms of being under the influence of something.


That's why I carry a Medical Alert card from the International Essential Tremor Foundation. I was unaware that it could be perceived as being drunk until someone called my company and told them they thought I was drunk on the job. Luckily for me, I work for relatives who know I don't drink on the job. In a field sobriety test, I would fail the "close your eyes and touch your nose" portion and possibly the "stand on one leg" portion too.
 
2012-07-30 08:33:28 AM

People_are_Idiots: Again and again.... some dealers don't necessarily use different tables for different drugs when they prepare, nor clean the tables after use. Here's an experiment for you: Cut peppers, onions, cinnamon sticks, and tomatoes, on the same cutting board and use the same knife without washing either... and eat the tomato slices.


The only drug that's remotely active in those trace amounts is LSD. You don't cut LSD or smoke it.
 
2012-07-30 10:26:17 AM
T

Novart: imfallen_angel: Author of article: Paul Armentano is the Deputy Director of NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws)

yeah... non biased, I'm sure.

Who isn't biased?


People who are in paid advocacy positions might be considered a biased source, Cheech, your rhetoric fu aside
 
2012-07-30 10:33:14 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: Silly_Sot: "Just like alcohol"

Let's take that ball and run with it. If marijuana is "just like alcohol", then it should have the same laws apply to it. Age 18-21 to purchase, and it's illegal to drive under the influence or be intoxicated in public. I can live with that.

just like ALCOHOL wooooo

[foodbeast.com image 640x480]


Couldn't they have found better looking models?
 
2012-07-30 10:49:44 AM
Pot is an industrial strength time waster. That said, schedule one for something that's on par with Sim City 4 is retarded.
 
2012-07-30 11:36:48 AM
i.ytimg.com
 
kgf
2012-07-30 12:52:15 PM

whidbey: The really embarrassing thing is that subby is very likely a flaming liberal in most political threads.

Most righties don't give a f*ck about pot legalization. It really rustles the jimmies of some of our more liberal-than-thou posters, though. I guess I should find that funny or something.


You are seriously confused. Perhaps you are thinking of Libertarians when you say "righties"? Righties hate pot and pot smokers.
 
2012-07-30 01:47:49 PM
LEGALIZE IT FOR WILLIE!

(at the very least...)
 
2012-07-30 02:05:34 PM

kgf: whidbey: The really embarrassing thing is that subby is very likely a flaming liberal in most political threads.

Most righties don't give a f*ck about pot legalization. It really rustles the jimmies of some of our more liberal-than-thou posters, though. I guess I should find that funny or something.

You are seriously confused. Perhaps you are thinking of Libertarians when you say "righties"? Righties hate pot and pot smokers.


Not true. there's a growing number of conservatives that support the legalization effort. Case in point: Pat Robertson.
 
2012-07-30 02:21:22 PM
Maybe some Farkers knowledgeable about drugs and hallucinogens can answer this lingering question for me:

I knew a guy in college who was convinced that the whole "you can't overdose on marijuana" rule applied to anything that was "all natural" and "came out of the ground." So he was a huge advocate of Peyote, Jimson Weed, and most vocally shrooms. He claimed that they were 100% safe, overdose was impossible, and that you could ingest as many as you wanted. He would, for example, make extremely potent shroom tea pretty much every day.

Now, I don't know much about shrooms, but that sounded wrong to me. Just cause it comes out of the ground or is "natural" doesn't mean its safe; I'm not going to survive licking a golden poison frog just because it's natural. I looked it up and showed him some cursory stuff about people ODing on mushrooms and needing stomach pumps, which he claimed was all part of a big science/media/government conspiracy against marijuana, shrooms, and the other "natural" drugs.

At the time I was genuinely worried about the dude's well-being--I mean, I'm not against having some fun, but that sounded like a pretty dangerous misconception. I just wanted him to slow down a bit and take some precautions. He disagreed so vehemently that it ended our friendship and we lost touch.

Was I wrong? I don't know enough about the science to weigh in one way or the other on whether there's a conspiracy or unfair stigma. Or is the dude probably dead /a vegetable by now?
 
2012-07-30 03:12:19 PM

Booface1985: Maybe some Farkers knowledgeable about drugs and hallucinogens can answer this lingering question for me:

I knew a guy in college who was convinced that the whole "you can't overdose on marijuana" rule applied to anything that was "all natural" and "came out of the ground." So he was a huge advocate of Peyote, Jimson Weed, and most vocally shrooms. He claimed that they were 100% safe, overdose was impossible, and that you could ingest as many as you wanted. He would, for example, make extremely potent shroom tea pretty much every day.

Now, I don't know much about shrooms, but that sounded wrong to me. Just cause it comes out of the ground or is "natural" doesn't mean its safe; I'm not going to survive licking a golden poison frog just because it's natural. I looked it up and showed him some cursory stuff about people ODing on mushrooms and needing stomach pumps, which he claimed was all part of a big science/media/government conspiracy against marijuana, shrooms, and the other "natural" drugs.

At the time I was genuinely worried about the dude's well-being--I mean, I'm not against having some fun, but that sounded like a pretty dangerous misconception. I just wanted him to slow down a bit and take some precautions. He disagreed so vehemently that it ended our friendship and we lost touch.

Was I wrong? I don't know enough about the science to weigh in one way or the other on whether there's a conspiracy or unfair stigma. Or is the dude probably dead /a vegetable by now?


I dunno about Jimson weed or peyote but it is true you can't overdose on oral THC or psilocibin (shrooms). The reason has nothing to do with them being natural, it just happens to be that they aren't poisonous. You can OD on water if you drink too much, don't forget.

Of course the argument that 'lol durr hurr potheads think because it's natural it can't hurt you, what about cyanide? hurrdurr.' is a dead end because all those naturally poisonous plants are legal to own in unlimited quantity.

It has nothing to do with danger and everything to do with political usefulness and profit. People can't ignore that any longer.
 
2012-07-30 03:15:36 PM
I read the headline as:

Five "scientific conclusions" about cannibals the media doesn't want you to know. Missing from the list: marijuana is, in fact, a drug that impairs judgment and shouldn't be treated lightly, just like alcohol.

Which made the premise really odd.

Marijuana impairs judgement and causes cannibals!

STOP THE PRESS!
 
2012-07-30 03:19:33 PM

lewismarktwo: Booface1985: Maybe some Farkers knowledgeable about drugs and hallucinogens can answer this lingering question for me:

I knew a guy in college who was convinced that the whole "you can't overdose on marijuana" rule applied to anything that was "all natural" and "came out of the ground." So he was a huge advocate of Peyote, Jimson Weed, and most vocally shrooms. He claimed that they were 100% safe, overdose was impossible, and that you could ingest as many as you wanted. He would, for example, make extremely potent shroom tea pretty much every day.

Now, I don't know much about shrooms, but that sounded wrong to me. Just cause it comes out of the ground or is "natural" doesn't mean its safe; I'm not going to survive licking a golden poison frog just because it's natural. I looked it up and showed him some cursory stuff about people ODing on mushrooms and needing stomach pumps, which he claimed was all part of a big science/media/government conspiracy against marijuana, shrooms, and the other "natural" drugs.

At the time I was genuinely worried about the dude's well-being--I mean, I'm not against having some fun, but that sounded like a pretty dangerous misconception. I just wanted him to slow down a bit and take some precautions. He disagreed so vehemently that it ended our friendship and we lost touch.

Was I wrong? I don't know enough about the science to weigh in one way or the other on whether there's a conspiracy or unfair stigma. Or is the dude probably dead /a vegetable by now?

I dunno about Jimson weed or peyote but it is true you can't overdose on oral THC or psilocibin (shrooms). The reason has nothing to do with them being natural, it just happens to be that they aren't poisonous. You can OD on water if you drink too much, don't forget.

Of course the argument that 'lol durr hurr potheads think because it's natural it can't hurt you, what about cyanide? hurrdurr.' is a dead end because all those naturally poisonous plants are legal to own in unlimite ...


dupily dupily hurr duurp
dirupity durp durpd upr
 
2012-07-30 03:19:33 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: I read the headline as:

Five "scientific conclusions" about cannibals the media doesn't want you to know.


Put down the bong, Shaggy. You're poster material.
 
2012-07-30 03:28:35 PM

Booface1985: At the time I was genuinely worried about the dude's well-being--I mean, I'm not against having some fun, but that sounded like a pretty dangerous misconception. I just wanted him to slow down a bit and take some precautions. He disagreed so vehemently that it ended our friendship and we lost touch.

Was I wrong? I don't know enough about the science to weigh in one way or the other on whether there's a conspiracy or unfair stigma. Or is the dude probably dead /a vegetable by now?


You were/are correct in your assessment, and your friend was bound for an early grave or long hospital stay based on that list. The misconception that natural means safe is one that is pervasive, reinforced by advertisers and schisters alike to sell snake oil.

Jimson weed is poisonous and can kill or injure a user after ingesting the dosages needed for hallucinogenic effects. Psilocilbin is toxic and can cause death, generally at a higher intake level than most people can stand to keep down without vomiting; someone who has taken them many times is more likely to reach toxicity due to acclimation to and suppression of the gag reflex that accompanies ingestion, but it still requires an amazing set of circumstances to reach. I cannot speak to the toxicity of peyote. Ironically, the toxicity of LSD is substantially lower than everything on that list, at least when comparing effective dosage to toxic levels. As mentioned elsewhere, THC can be toxic, but at such substantial levels that there are only a slim handful of reported cases of that occurring (I know of one).

There are plenty of naturally occurring compounds that will kill a person, and almost nothing in existence is entirely non-toxic to humans in some fashion.
 
2012-07-30 03:43:22 PM

lewismarktwo: Of course the argument that 'lol durr hurr potheads think because it's natural it can't hurt you, what about cyanide? hurrdurr.' is a dead end because all those naturally poisonous plants are legal to own in unlimite ...


Not trying to make any arguments about legality here (or trying to be didactic in any way), it was purely a personal tangent. Duly noted and agreed with, though.
 
2012-07-30 03:56:48 PM
I hate the stereotypical pot culture: the lame puns, the lazy, irresponsible people, and the ugly artwork. Livin in Eugene, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical potheads are the ones who are slowing the legalization process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the flamers making gays look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.
 
2012-07-30 04:05:43 PM

Booface1985: lewismarktwo: Of course the argument that 'lol durr hurr potheads think because it's natural it can't hurt you, what about cyanide? hurrdurr.' is a dead end because all those naturally poisonous plants are legal to own in unlimite ...

Not trying to make any arguments about legality here (or trying to be didactic in any way), it was purely a personal tangent. Duly noted and agreed with, though.


Well, I wasn't tryin to harsh your buzz or nothin, duder. Sorry if I came off as hostile.
 
2012-07-30 04:13:54 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: I hate the stereotypical pot culture: the lame puns, the lazy, irresponsible people, and the ugly artwork.


Like the first four Black Sabbath albums?

Livin in Eugene, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical potheads are the ones who are slowing the legalization process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the flamers making gays look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-30 04:24:51 PM

Undulation: THC can be toxic, but at such substantial levels that there are only a slim handful of reported cases of that occurring (I know of one).


Unless you are speaking of Marinol, which is a synthetic THC pill produced by Solvay Pharmaceuticals and is legal by prescription, you are full of shiat.

Marinol has caused at least four deaths since hitting the market.

In over 3,500 years of recorded use, there is not a single reported overdose from marijuana, by any means of ingestion whatsoever.

Thanks Big Pharma!

/Even the lab monkeys that scientists were force-smoking thousands of joints a day into died from carbon monoxide poisoning long before they would have hit the LD-50 of THC.
//that carbon monoxide poisoning was also responsible for their brain damage. not the thc.
 
2012-07-30 04:32:00 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: I hate the stereotypical pot culture: the lame puns, the lazy, irresponsible people, and the ugly artwork. Livin in Eugene, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical potheads are the ones who are slowing the legalization process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the flamers making gays look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.


I hate the stereotypical black culture: the fried chicken and watermelon, the lazy, irresponsible people, and the terrible rap. Livin in Philly, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical blacks are the ones who are slowing desegregation. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the beaners making spics look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.



WOW, that was......really, really easy.
 
2012-07-30 04:44:12 PM
SO easy that I'mma do it again!

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: I hate the stereotypical pot culture: the lame puns, the lazy, irresponsible people, and the ugly artwork. Livin in Eugene, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical potheads are the ones who are slowing the legalization process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the flamers making gays look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.


I hate the stereotypical Chicano culture: the tacos, the lazy, irresponsible people, and the adobe houses filled with cocaine. Livin in Albuquerque, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical Mexicans are the ones who are slowing the immigration process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the Nazis making krauts look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.

I hate the stereotypical gay culture: the flamers, the tweaking, irresponsible people, and the ugly fashion. Livin in the bay area, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical queers are the ones who are slowing the same-sex marriage process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the ridiculously small minority of idiot teens and burnouts making average marijuana users look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.

I hate the stereotypical vampire culture: the lame sparkles, the feeding off of people, and the constant fighting with werewolves for the affections of young teens. Livin in Eugene, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical vampires are the ones who are slowing the opening of the Hellmouth. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the Wiccans making bonafide practitioners of the black arts look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.


This is fun. =)
 
2012-07-30 05:17:10 PM

radarlove: Unless you are speaking of Marinol, which is a synthetic THC pill produced by Solvay Pharmaceuticals and is legal by prescription, you are full of shiat.

Marinol has caused at least four deaths since hitting the market.

In over 3,500 years of recorded use, there is not a single reported overdose from marijuana, by any means of ingestion whatsoever.


Lolersnacks. Set aside the sativa and load up some strong indica, because you're harshing the thread and need to chill... I did say THC and did not specify marijuana, so go ahead and dial back the berthert. I am aware of one toxicity event relating to THC, and indeed it was marinol; 3 more would be news to me, but then I don't follow these events too closely. More to the point though, hyperbolic shoe throwing isn't a particularly endearing strategy for making friends and influencing people, even in a Fark discussion.
 
2012-07-30 05:22:18 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!


Tomatoes can be grown nearly anywhere, yet the supermarket sells a lot of tomatoes because growing tomatoes is a pain in the ass. The only reason the weed growing crowd is so big is because for a long time now it was one of the few viable options. If people could just pop down to the bodega and get a pack of reefer, they probably wouldn't want to go through all the sh*t involved in growing it.

Also, anyone can make alcohol. Its just more convenient to go to the liquor store and pick up a 6er than spend weeks brewing your own.
 
2012-07-30 05:28:40 PM

Undulation: radarlove: Unless you are speaking of Marinol, which is a synthetic THC pill produced by Solvay Pharmaceuticals and is legal by prescription, you are full of shiat.

Marinol has caused at least four deaths since hitting the market.

In over 3,500 years of recorded use, there is not a single reported overdose from marijuana, by any means of ingestion whatsoever.

Lolersnacks. Set aside the sativa and load up some strong indica, because you're harshing the thread and need to chill... I did say THC and did not specify marijuana, so go ahead and dial back the berthert. I am aware of one toxicity event relating to THC, and indeed it was marinol; 3 more would be news to me, but then I don't follow these events too closely. More to the point though, hyperbolic shoe throwing isn't a particularly endearing strategy for making friends and influencing people, even in a Fark discussion.


Neither is making vague implications that serve no purpose other than to further a campaign of never-ending misinformation, friend.

If you mean Marinol, you say Marinol. To simply say "THC" is disingenuous at best, and deliberately misleading and manipulative at worst. Marinol is a SYNTHETIC DERIVATIVE of THC cooked up in a pharmaceutical laboratory and is substantially more potent/dangerous.

Plant-based THC is to Marinol what the poppies in your garden are to Oxycontin. Sure, they're vaguely related, but it took a science whiz in a lab to figure out how to make them deadly, incredibly easy to abuse, and legal.
 
2012-07-30 05:29:21 PM

Undulation: whargarbl



First of all, you are an idiot for claiming that natural THC ingestion has killed anyone, even just a couple people. THC produced by pharmaceutical corporations are absolutely excluded from this discussion.

Second, the LD50 for mushrooms is several pounds of dried mushrooms. Nobody is dying from magic mushrooms either.

"Psilocybin comprises approximately 1% of the weight of Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, and so nearly 1.7 kilograms (3.7 lb) of dried mushrooms, or 17 kilograms (37 lb) of fresh mushrooms, would be required for a 60-kilogram (130 lb) person to reach the 280 mg/kg LD50 value." Source


The only thing you're getting right at all in your posts is the stupidity of using Jimson Weed, though what Jimson Weed has to do with cannabis and mushrooms is questionable. Jimson Weed is much more of a deliriant, than an actual recreational intoxicant. It is also muuuch more poisonous than cannabis and mushrooms, these substances really shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence. Cannabis and mushrooms = Relaxants. Jimson Weed = Poisonous deliriant.

Jimson Weed is like Nutmeg, technically a hallucinogen. Maintains that status enough that some dumb kids who cant find weed will hear about it and gather that "it makes you high." And then we get the obligatory summer "Jimson Weed kills teen" article. The truth is, there are no regular Jimson Weed users. Just like there are no regular Nutmeg users. They aren't pleasurable enough to warrant repeat use.
 
2012-07-30 05:39:02 PM
Let me break it down for the people confused by the "it's natural" bit.

Cannabis is a relaxant that grows out of the ground, calms you down, and makes you hungry. It is scheduled alongside drugs like heroin, meth, PCP, and crack, all powerful chemical products, most synthesized in clandestine labs, by serious criminals involved in high level crime. These chemical products have sweeping powerful nervous system effects that can incapacitate or superpower a user. A PCP user can take savage beatings from multiple cops and still not be restrained, for instance. A heroin user will effectively lose consciousness and nod off in a stupor, the world could be burning up around them.

Potheads plant a seed in the ground, water it, and smoke it when it's ready. Yet you idiots think it warrants throwing $8 billion annually. Can't have peaceful citizens growing a harmless plant. It's not just the fact that it's a plant that grew out of the ground. It's that this harmless plant is cast in the same light as PCP, methamphetamine, heroin, etc.
 
2012-07-30 05:39:27 PM

Booface1985: Maybe some Farkers knowledgeable about drugs and hallucinogens can answer this lingering question for me:

I knew a guy in college who was convinced that the whole "you can't overdose on marijuana" rule applied to anything that was "all natural" and "came out of the ground." So he was a huge advocate of Peyote, Jimson Weed, and most vocally shrooms. He claimed that they were 100% safe, overdose was impossible, and that you could ingest as many as you wanted. He would, for example, make extremely potent shroom tea pretty much every day.

Now, I don't know much about shrooms, but that sounded wrong to me. Just cause it comes out of the ground or is "natural" doesn't mean its safe; I'm not going to survive licking a golden poison frog just because it's natural. I looked it up and showed him some cursory stuff about people ODing on mushrooms and needing stomach pumps, which he claimed was all part of a big science/media/government conspiracy against marijuana, shrooms, and the other "natural" drugs.

At the time I was genuinely worried about the dude's well-being--I mean, I'm not against having some fun, but that sounded like a pretty dangerous misconception. I just wanted him to slow down a bit and take some precautions. He disagreed so vehemently that it ended our friendship and we lost touch.

Was I wrong? I don't know enough about the science to weigh in one way or the other on whether there's a conspiracy or unfair stigma. Or is the dude probably dead /a vegetable by now?


Well, since you can overdose on WATER, you were right, and nature-dude was very wrong. The wrong mushroom can kill you flat-out dead, unless you can get a new liver installed very quickly.

I'm pro-legalization, but I'm quite willing to admit there are some flat-out idiots on my side of the debate.

They're not nearly as expensive for society as the pro-Drug War-at-any-cost idiots on the other side, however.
 
2012-07-30 05:42:20 PM

D_Evans45: The only thing you're getting right at all in your posts is the stupidity of using Jimson Weed, though what Jimson Weed has to do with cannabis and mushrooms is questionable.


To be fair, he was responding to my earlier mention of a friend who strongly advocated Jimson Weed along with other natural drugs like Marijuana, Peyote, and mushrooms. So he wasn't comparing them in any attempt to be disingenuous, just trying to answer my original question(s).

Good information, though. I've read about people overdosing or nearly overdosing on mushrooms and needing to get their stomachs pumped. If their Psilocybin is so low, how does something like that happen? Or is it most likely a case of downing the wrong type of mushroom?
 
2012-07-30 05:45:32 PM
I apologize to undulation, I am actually directing my comments at the person he quoted then.
 
2012-07-30 05:58:33 PM
Also, pardon me saying so, but if you have a friend who strongly advocates using Jimson Weed as a recreational intoxicant, he is an idiot.

And any mention of stomach pumps would probably be eating poisonous mushrooms by mistake, which isnt unheard of. There are poisonous mushrooms that are also hallucinogenic, Amanitas (fly agaric) for example.

In my opinion, wild magic mushroom picking should best be left to seasoned veterans. You and me? Not a chance. Magic mushroom spores are NOT illegal to order online/own, and can be brought to fruition with extremely minimal legal worry, in a very short time. I'd much rather grow my own than attempt to identify a wild mushroom that *looks like* those mushrooms that got me high a couple years ago. You could probably pull 3 mushroom harvests in the time it would take for your cannabis plants outside to mature, and you wouldnt have big stinky bushes all over the place, just an aquarium in the corner of the garage.

Then again, kids nowadays are lazy as shiat. Grow your own, or "done right, do it yourself" attitude, is a rarity.
 
2012-07-30 06:01:26 PM

Booface1985: D_Evans45: The only thing you're getting right at all in your posts is the stupidity of using Jimson Weed, though what Jimson Weed has to do with cannabis and mushrooms is questionable.

To be fair, he was responding to my earlier mention of a friend who strongly advocated Jimson Weed along with other natural drugs like Marijuana, Peyote, and mushrooms. So he wasn't comparing them in any attempt to be disingenuous, just trying to answer my original question(s).

Good information, though. I've read about people overdosing or nearly overdosing on mushrooms and needing to get their stomachs pumped. If their Psilocybin is so low, how does something like that happen? Or is it most likely a case of downing the wrong type of mushroom?


Either that or HIGHLY concentrating the psilocybin. The LD50 of psilocybin is 280mg/kg, meaning that your average 80 kilo male would have to take 22.4 grams of pure psilocybin to have a lethal overdose. That's nearly a full ounce, and that's a shiatload of psilocybin. Since there is 4mg-10mg of psilocybin per mushroom, you're looking at around 3,500 mushrooms or more eaten in one sitting in order to die. I've been searching for a while now but haven't been able to find any reports of terminal overdose. That's probably why.

You can, however, fry the hell out of your brain if you take large enough quantities of any hallucinogen, resulting in psychosis in some cases.
 
2012-07-30 06:05:14 PM

People_are_Idiots: D_Evans45: People_are_Idiots: There is a published study that states long-term, heavy marijuana use leads to memory loss and mild brain trauma, Here: Link. You supposedly can die from OD on marijuana, BUT it has to be 40,000 times more smoked or eaten than what is currently done. basically, in the amount of time it takes to consume 1, you'd have to consume 40k. Only way that might happen is if a marijuana farm catches fire.


i.e. "You're waaay more likely to be randomly crushed by a bale of cannabis falling from the sky than ever die from consuming cannabis". The fact that you even mention "facts" like this in conjunction with your argument makes it hard to take seriously. The article you sourced states that the participants in the study used at least 5 joints a day for over 10 years, they found the Tommy Chongs of society to compare against sober people years younger. 5 joints is a lot of weed to smoke in a day; assuming you roll a gram into a modest sized joint (about average) you're smoking well over a quarter pound a month.

Most of the pot smokers I know use the ever famous "water bongs" and inhale the fumes. Also, I didn't say DIE from long term use... I said loss of memory functions. The amount of pot it takes to theoretically die from OD would be equivalent to 140,000 hits in the time frame of one cigarette. In other words, you can't do it UNLESS forced (no one can inhale that much MJ smoke by choice). The only real way to die from "smoking weed": some of the less-reputable dealers don't exactly use the best methods of cutting weed, and sometimes another drug can get mixed in (remember that most places still outlaw distribution), ie you wouldn't die from the MJ, you die from coke/crack/heroin/etc. Learn to read, please?

Also, I looked more at the site, and found articles like an article talking on the CO2 content and the change in climate, and How UV-B radiation is affecting marine life. It's a friggin Aussie science news site, not Daily Mail.


lol
 
2012-07-30 07:24:39 PM

radarlove: Undulation: radarlove: Unless you are speaking of Marinol, which is a synthetic THC pill produced by Solvay Pharmaceuticals and is legal by prescription, you are full of shiat.

Marinol has caused at least four deaths since hitting the market.

In over 3,500 years of recorded use, there is not a single reported overdose from marijuana, by any means of ingestion whatsoever.

Lolersnacks. Set aside the sativa and load up some strong indica, because you're harshing the thread and need to chill... I did say THC and did not specify marijuana, so go ahead and dial back the berthert. I am aware of one toxicity event relating to THC, and indeed it was marinol; 3 more would be news to me, but then I don't follow these events too closely. More to the point though, hyperbolic shoe throwing isn't a particularly endearing strategy for making friends and influencing people, even in a Fark discussion.

Neither is making vague implications that serve no purpose other than to further a campaign of never-ending misinformation, friend.

If you mean Marinol, you say Marinol. To simply say "THC" is disingenuous at best, and deliberately misleading and manipulative at worst. Marinol is a SYNTHETIC DERIVATIVE of THC cooked up in a pharmaceutical laboratory and is substantially more potent/dangerous.

Plant-based THC is to Marinol what the poppies in your garden are to Oxycontin. Sure, they're vaguely related, but it took a science whiz in a lab to figure out how to make them deadly, incredibly easy to abuse, and legal.


As I understand THC is a chemical, so there is really no distinction between THC synthesized in a lab vs. the THC that cannabis naturally produces.

That said, the cannabis plant has about 300 compounds other than just THC. There's also CBD which is another active compounds that has medicinal properties.

My point is that cannabis has a lot of "stuff" than just THC, and there is no diff between the THC in Marinol and cannabis.

Also, you pay about 10 bucks a pill for the Marinol that may or may not have the same efficacy as your natural herb. Personally, I would chose the herb over something a pharmaceutical company created in a lab.
 
2012-07-30 07:30:17 PM

poorjon: Captain_Ballbeard: Fact 6: Marijuana, unlike alcohol and tobacco, can easily be grown by anybody, nearly anywhere. Think about the job creators!

Tomatoes can be grown nearly anywhere, yet the supermarket sells a lot of tomatoes because growing tomatoes is a pain in the ass. The only reason the weed growing crowd is so big is because for a long time now it was one of the few viable options. If people could just pop down to the bodega and get a pack of reefer, they probably wouldn't want to go through all the sh*t involved in growing it.

Also, anyone can make alcohol. Its just more convenient to go to the liquor store and pick up a 6er than spend weeks brewing your own.


See, people throw this around as a matter of fact, but the truth is, growing good cannabis is the same as growing good tomatoes. You can't just throw a bunch of seeds in a patch of soil and expect to have big, juicy, worm-free heirloom tomatoes.

You have to care for them. Feed the plant. Water the plant. Pick off the worms/bugs that get on it. When the plant starts to flower and you see your baby tomatoes, you have make sure it doesn't get moldy and produces fruit to full ripeness. Otherwise, the fruit will just die on the vine, get moldy, fall off, etc.

My point is, if you want good tomatoes, you have to put in the time and effort to produce good tomatoes.
 
2012-07-30 07:52:54 PM

radarlove: SO easy that I'mma do it again!

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: I hate the stereotypical pot culture: the lame puns, the lazy, irresponsible people, and the ugly artwork. Livin in Eugene, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical potheads are the ones who are slowing the legalization process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the flamers making gays look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.

I hate the stereotypical Chicano culture: the tacos, the lazy, irresponsible people, and the adobe houses filled with cocaine. Livin in Albuquerque, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical Mexicans are the ones who are slowing the immigration process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the Nazis making krauts look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.

I hate the stereotypical gay culture: the flamers, the tweaking, irresponsible people, and the ugly fashion. Livin in the bay area, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical queers are the ones who are slowing the same-sex marriage process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the ridiculously small minority of idiot teens and burnouts making average marijuana users look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.

I hate the stereotypical vampire culture: the lame sparkles, the feeding off of people, and the constant fighting with werewolves for the affections of young teens. Livin in Eugene, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical vampires are the ones who are slowing the opening of the Hellmouth. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the Wiccans making bon ...


Nice Dude. Your racist comments won me over. Let's legalize weed.
 
2012-07-30 08:38:21 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: Nice Dude. Your racist comments won me over. Let's legalize weed.


I thought I was pretty blatantly making the point that stereotyping an entire group based upon an incredibly small minority that you find offensive is foolish and wrong, but apparently it went right over your head.

So let us try this again-

I hate the stereotypical conservative culture: the unbridled racism, the power-hungry, hateful people, and the country music. Livin in Oklahoma City, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical conservatives are the ones who are slowing the legislative process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the totalitarian regimes of Russia and China making socialists look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.

That work for ya? No? How about this:

I hate the stereotypical liberal culture: the spineless weak-willed Nanny-Statism, the socialist welfare programs that jeopardize the economy, and the constant aborting of fetuses. Livin in Boulder, I know the stereotype is there for a reason. I think these stereotypical liberals are the ones who are slowing the legislative process. Nobody wants more of them. It's similar to the racists and gay-bashers making conservatives look bad. Act in a responsible, civil way, and you will be taken seriously. Act like a moron, and it will take you a lot longer to achieve acceptance.

STILL not getting it? Fine, here ya go:

Stereotyping an entire group based upon an incredibly small minority that you find offensive is foolish and wrong.
 
2012-07-30 09:08:56 PM

radarlove: STILL not getting it?


I have a prediction...
 
2012-07-30 09:46:24 PM
You stoned potheads are so damn cute when you get defensive.
 
2012-07-30 10:37:19 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: legalize pot. followed by oxycontin. make it OTC. for my complex 11 aches and pains (i have fibromyalgia)


I have severe fibro too.. it's a biatch. I have a medical marijuana card (live in Michigan) but unfortunately pot doesn't work nearly as well as opiates and my doc doesn't prescribe me enough.. >_
 
2012-07-31 12:00:15 AM

Jument: Mr.Bobo: [farm4.staticflickr.com image 426x640]

Its a plant... Legalize it...

I farking hate that argument. If plants are good, how about you eat a death angel toadstool? The fact that it is a plant is as relevant to the discussion as the fact that the sky is blue. Stop being an idiot and maybe one day people will take you seriously.


I think it is funny that people think the government should run arround telling people what kinds of plants that they can have, when they occur naturally... Stupid

Your argument is insanely stupid. I wouldn't misuse a product organic or not.put any type of poison in my body. Marijuana is not poisonous, so what is your point?. You are the with the idiotic argument. Perhaps you should think before you type and make an ass out of yourself publicly.
 
2012-07-31 12:56:16 AM

Mr.Bobo: I think it is funny that people think the government should run arround telling people what kinds of plants that they can have, when they occur naturally... Stupid

Your argument is insanely stupid. I wouldn't misuse a product organic or not.put any type of poison in my body. Marijuana is not poisonous, so what is your point?. You are the with the idiotic argument. Perhaps you should think before you type and make an ass out of yourself publicly.


Natural is an almost meaningless description of things. Everything is natural. Human beings and everything they have created is natural.
 
2012-07-31 01:05:46 AM

John Buck 41: You stoned potheads are so damn cute when you get defensive.


And you cranked up cokeheads can be so condescending...
 
2012-07-31 01:16:28 AM

Booface1985: I knew a guy in college who was convinced that the whole "you can't overdose on marijuana" rule applied to anything that was "all natural" and "came out of the ground." So he was a huge advocate of Peyote, Jimson Weed, and most vocally shrooms. He claimed that they were 100% safe, overdose was impossible, and that you could ingest as many as you wanted. He would, for example, make extremely potent shroom tea pretty much every day.



Go to erowid, read their trip reports on Jimson Weed, Datura and Brugmansia (related plants with the same active chemicals), then re-evaluate your friend. The experiences people have with this stuff are scary as all hell. Sometimes people literally thought they were in hell. Often they end up in the psych ward. A few end up dead.
 
2012-07-31 09:09:45 PM
AeAe:

I agree wholeheartedly with your quality argument. There is nothing which compares to a heirloom tomato or homebrew made with love. What I was trying to point out is the fallacy in the "it will never be legal because anyone can grow it and there would be no profit" argument. A lot of people eat lousy tomatoes and drink crappy beer and very large companies make fat profits off of this behavior. Produce, cars, electronics, appliances, software whatever have you; people have shown themselves to want to have a thing and will settle for a shiatty knockoff rather than pay more for a superior product. That is why if weed is legalized people will buy TONS shiatty off the shelf stuff, and maybe only rarely splurge on the good but expensive stuff. The craftsman will never eat the lunch of the mass producer.
 
2012-08-01 01:29:05 AM

poorjon: I agree wholeheartedly with your quality argument. There is nothing which compares to a heirloom tomato or homebrew made with love. What I was trying to point out is the fallacy in the "it will never be legal because anyone can grow it and there would be no profit" argument. A lot of people eat lousy tomatoes and drink crappy beer and very large companies make fat profits off of this behavior. Produce, cars, electronics, appliances, software whatever have you; people have shown themselves to want to have a thing and will settle for a shiatty knockoff rather than pay more for a superior product. That is why if weed is legalized people will buy TONS shiatty off the shelf stuff, and maybe only rarely splurge on the good but expensive stuff. The craftsman will never eat the lunch of the mass producer.


Even if the good stuff was expensive to buy, some of us are not natural botanists and would buy for convenience and reliability.
 
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