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(Guardian)   Even the skeptics are finding it difficult to ignore climate change   ( guardian.co.uk) divider line
    More: Obvious, climate change, skeptics  
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5445 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Jul 2012 at 3:22 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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NFA
2012-07-29 11:05:07 AM  
Where are the Warming folks making claims that this is only a single data point on a long term trend and should be ignored???

You know, like they do every time we have an unusually cold winter...
 
2012-07-29 11:07:23 AM  
IIRC this is the second study paid for by the Kochs that has found global warming to be real.
 
2012-07-29 11:10:54 AM  
No they're not
 
2012-07-29 11:26:38 AM  
Oh, sure, a "converted" "skeptic" from "Berkeley" ? More likely a plant - a guy who would SAY he was a skeptic, and be a convenient "convert" when it started getting harder to defend the "science".

/Think of that as an "inb4"
 
2012-07-29 11:32:51 AM  
I'm pretty sure that the oil companies will not be swayed by anything as insignificant as "evidence".
 
2012-07-29 12:11:09 PM  
Here's the thing - even if the Kock brothers did acknowledge that global warming is real and that man is acting as a catalyst - they wouldn't be advocating for new measures.

We've seen dozens of instances in which this group has preferred short-term success for themselves at the cost of severe long-term cost to others.

They're on their way out of this life and they've shown little desire to protect future generations for others.
 
2012-07-29 12:14:55 PM  
Since when has ANYONE denied that the Earth has indeed warmed? I thought that was a settled matter for decades now. Wasn't the new goalpost "Well, we didn't cause it though"? Or has that been moved to "Well, we did cause it, but it's a GOOD thing" yet?
 
2012-07-29 12:50:21 PM  

nekom: Since when has ANYONE denied that the Earth has indeed warmed? I thought that was a settled matter for decades now. Wasn't the new goalpost "Well, we didn't cause it though"? Or has that been moved to "Well, we did cause it, but it's a GOOD thing" yet?


You haven't been in threads with GeneralJim or SevenizGud I take it?
 
2012-07-29 12:52:21 PM  

nekom: Since when has ANYONE denied that the Earth has indeed warmed? I thought that was a settled matter for decades now. Wasn't the new goalpost "Well, we didn't cause it though"? Or has that been moved to "Well, we did cause it, but it's a GOOD thing" yet?


For your edification:


SevenizGud: Farking Canuck: Since the CO2 levels are still climbing and there is a ~20 year lag in response to changes the expected trend is for the temperatures to keep rising.

What is this "keep" you speak of? Trend for the last 15 years is DOWN, not up, remember?

See, here's something that you should keep in mind. When the little temperature number gets SMALLER, that's called cooling, not warming.


And note that these guys aren't getting this stuff from nowhere. There are plenty of sites that cherry-pick data for their consumption.
 
2012-07-29 12:56:38 PM  
God, Republicans are stupid. Even if you thought there was a 20% chance that manmade climate change was real (the real data is far more convincing) wouldn't a wise person at least PLAN for that? The Republicans just grumble and insist it's all a giant liberal conspiracy across the globe that has affected all the world's best scientists, because everyone hates America.

USA USA USA!

Idiots.
 
2012-07-29 01:05:02 PM  
Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?
 
2012-07-29 01:06:51 PM  
It really doesn't matter any more. No country is going to do anything about it and certainly no politician will address it as long as there is oil in the ground. As food supplies decrease and famine becomes more widespread because of drought, it might be addressed, but it will be too late. It took time to happen and it's going to take time and direct effort to heal. It's not going to happen in today's world.
 
2012-07-29 01:16:13 PM  

Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?


God you sound pretty stupid. Listen to yourself.
 
2012-07-29 01:24:44 PM  

Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?


Is this satire?
 
2012-07-29 01:43:36 PM  

Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?


GED in Climatology?
 
2012-07-29 01:54:13 PM  

Confabulat: Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?

God you sound pretty stupid. Listen to yourself.


OK. Step 1. Admit global warming is real. Step 2?
 
2012-07-29 01:57:42 PM  

Kevin72: Confabulat: Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?

God you sound pretty stupid. Listen to yourself.

OK. Step 1. Admit global warming is real. Step 2?


Reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
 
2012-07-29 02:05:47 PM  
No one is ever going to be convinced who has a vested interest in not being convinced.
 
2012-07-29 02:09:36 PM  

Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?

"Our results show that the average temperature of the Earth's land has risen by 2.5F over the past 250 years, including an increase of 1.5 degrees over the most recent 50 years. Moreover, it appears likely that essentially all of this increase results from the human emission of greenhouse gases," Muller wrote in an opinion piece for the New York Times.


?
 
2012-07-29 02:39:52 PM  

St_Francis_P: ?


NONE of this is a problem. As soon as enough ice melts in greenland and the arctic, it will shut of the conveyor belt and the climate will cool. TADA. self-regulating feedback systems are funny.

/I have been reading the 2 mile time machine. Amazing stuff. The last 12k years have been the only stable period in recorded climate??!! Shifts happen MUCH faster than we would have believed and will yo-yo?!!!
 
2012-07-29 03:15:24 PM  

Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?


files.abovetopsecret.com

/yikes
 
2012-07-29 03:20:29 PM  
I'm inventing a coal powered air conditioner. The more that people use them -the more that they need them.

I'll be rich and fund my own skeptical scientific study proving that there is no harm done to the atmosphere by coal powered air conditioners.
 
2012-07-29 03:20:38 PM  

Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?


This is satire, folks. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is that pants-on-head retarded.
 
2012-07-29 03:27:24 PM  

dahmers love zombie: This is satire, folks. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is that pants-on-head retarded.


I disagree. Science deniers tend to be pants-on-head retarded. Link
 
2012-07-29 03:28:01 PM  

What climate change?

www.woodfortrees.org



The scientists have cherrypicked stations, cherrypicked reference datum, cherrypicked outlier method, cherrypicked homogeneity, cherrypicked smoother...in short cherrypicked liked a Lundhal 400 diesel...

and they STILL can't show warming. What a joke!
 
2012-07-29 03:32:49 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: No they're not


Hell, most of 'em have had years of practice denying evolution. They'll have no problem denying climate change...
 
2012-07-29 03:33:10 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: I'm inventing a coal powered air conditioner. The more that people use them -the more that they need them.

I'll be rich and fund my own skeptical scientific study proving that there is no harm done to the atmosphere by coal powered air conditioners.


I think you'll find that an awful lot of US (and almost all Chinese and Aussie) air conditioners really are powered by coal. Just with some wire thingies in between.

I find satire harder to distinguish from reality as I get older. And I'm not sure it's just senility.
 
2012-07-29 03:33:14 PM  

dahmers love zombie: Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?

This is satire, folks. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is that pants-on-head retarded.


That's the best one yet! It's like our solar system is swimming through a spot in the pool where someone jut peed.
 
2012-07-29 03:34:02 PM  

nekom: Since when has ANYONE denied that the Earth has indeed warmed?


Actually, the latest trend for denialists is to fudge the graphs to show no significant warming. Or, in other words, they're doing exactly what they're accusing the Climategate scientists of doing.
 
2012-07-29 03:34:19 PM  
Really?

This is the VERY FIRST TIME that a heat wave has hit the U.S.?

Amazing!

Thanks for letting us know that streaks of hot weather effect the North American continent in the Summer.

So glad you cleared that up!
 
2012-07-29 03:36:18 PM  

vygramul: You haven't been in threads with GeneralJim or SevenizGud I take it?


Reading comprehension really isn't your strong suit, is it? I won't speak for the General, but I have NEVER said that earth has never warmed. That's absurd. The idea that the earth has never warmed is tantamount to saying that it is now as COLD as it has ever been.

In fact, the WHOLE POINT of my posting in these threads, which I have stated explicitly in many instances, is to point out to retards and knuckleheads LIKE YOU that there is a difference between these statements:

A. The world has never warmed.
B. The world is not PRESENTLY warming.

You do realize that those two statements have different meaning, don't you? If course you don't, because you are as smart as a schizomycophyta.

That's why it is so stupid to post temperature data from 1880. NOBODY is arguing that the world NEVER warmed. And temperature from 1880 has NOTHING to do with what's happening now, which is 15 years of cooling, as my above graph, taken straight from HADCRUT3 data shows.
 
2012-07-29 03:37:43 PM  

oldernell: It really doesn't matter any more. No country is going to do anything about it and certainly no politician will address it as long as there is oil in the ground. As food supplies decrease and famine becomes more widespread because of drought, it might be addressed, but it will be too late. It took time to happen and it's going to take time and direct effort to heal. It's not going to happen in today's world.


You're too negative. Console yourself with the knowledge that most of the war and famine would have happened anyway; and almost all the suffering won't be in the developed countries.
 
2012-07-29 03:44:08 PM  
FTFA:
none of which have yet been published in peer-reviewed journals.

Call me when your blog sucks less.
 
2012-07-29 03:44:29 PM  

Confabulat: Even if you thought there was a 20% chance that manmade climate change was real (the real data is far more convincing) wouldn't a wise person at least PLAN for that?


The DoD has been thinking about this for quite some time.
 
2012-07-29 03:45:03 PM  

GAT_00: IIRC this is the second study paid for by the Kochs that has found global warming to be real.


It's part of the same study. Part 1 confirmed the warming itself, while this followup dealt with finding the environmental change(s) responsible for the observed warming. Everything was ruled out except for CO2 levels.

And the goalposts are on the move. FTA:

"When the Best project was announced last year, the prominent climate sceptic blogger Anthony Watts was consulted on the methodology. He stated at the time: 'I'm prepared to accept whatever result they produce, even if it proves my premise wrong.' However, tensions have since arisen between Watts and Muller."
 
2012-07-29 03:45:12 PM  
There never really has been any true denial in the mainstream scientific community.

The "denial" is just a few rich guys who don't want it to be true and are willing to pay. And, just like making sea level rise illegal, it is hardly viable long-term solution.
 
2012-07-29 03:45:16 PM  
All your graphs and charts cannot hide the fact that GOD is punishing this world for all it's sin and HOMOSEXUALITY!

See, that's the kind of shiat I have to deal with in Dallas. Although it's been a little cooler this summer than last. These are the people who think that Noah's ark was true and Jesus takes a personal interest in their lives. And if a minister in these parts changed his position on climate change he'd be kicked out because he must have been tainted by the homosexuals.
 
2012-07-29 03:45:25 PM  
Anyone got the AGW Bingo Card handy? I think 7IsGood might have won already.
 
2012-07-29 03:45:49 PM  
I love climate change threads. I only wish there was a way to tie in Mac users, Rush fans and bicycle etiquette.
 
2012-07-29 03:47:36 PM  

SevenizGud: vygramul: You haven't been in threads with GeneralJim or SevenizGud I take it?

Reading comprehension really isn't your strong suit, is it? I won't speak for the General, but I have NEVER said that earth has never warmed. That's absurd. The idea that the earth has never warmed is tantamount to saying that it is now as COLD as it has ever been.

In fact, the WHOLE POINT of my posting in these threads, which I have stated explicitly in many instances, is to point out to retards and knuckleheads LIKE YOU that there is a difference between these statements:

A. The world has never warmed.
B. The world is not PRESENTLY warming.

You do realize that those two statements have different meaning, don't you? If course you don't, because you are as smart as a schizomycophyta.

That's why it is so stupid to post temperature data from 1880. NOBODY is arguing that the world NEVER warmed. And temperature from 1880 has NOTHING to do with what's happening now, which is 15 years of cooling, as my above graph, taken straight from HADCRUT3 data shows.


And yet you still feel the need to cherry-pick. I wonder why?
 
2012-07-29 03:48:16 PM  
 
2012-07-29 03:48:36 PM  

SevenizGud: The scientists have cherrypicked stations, cherrypicked reference datum, cherrypicked outlier method, cherrypicked homogeneity, cherrypicked smoother


And you're cherrypicking the last 14.9 years. Why 14.9 years, SevenizGud? What is the significance of 14.9 years?

Justify using only the last 179 samples when we have over a century of direct records.
=Smidge=
 
2012-07-29 03:49:18 PM  

nekom: Since when has ANYONE denied that the Earth has indeed warmed? I thought that was a settled matter for decades now. Wasn't the new goalpost "Well, we didn't cause it though"? Or has that been moved to "Well, we did cause it, but it's a GOOD thing" yet?


Note Sevenizgud's post. The goalposts do, indeed, move.
 
2012-07-29 03:51:57 PM  

Confabulat: Even if you thought there was a 20% chance that manmade climate change was real (the real data is far more convincing) wouldn't a wise person at least PLAN for that?


And yet, the clear, unmistakeable #1 factor in all this, far and away, and without question by anyone - population increase - does not get even a mention by ANY person seeking public office at the federal level.

When Fartbongo and the rest of the dumbocraps start talking about reversing the crotch-fruit dropping tax break, and replacing it with a TAX PENALTY for having children, then I'll at least consider taking them seriously. Until then, poor people having even more poor people is a dumbocrap vote-breeding project, and none of them are themselves in any way serious about climate change.
 
2012-07-29 03:52:55 PM  

Kevin72: Even if we are warming, it is not CO2 and therefore a "carbon tax" and any of the other suggestions Warmingistas offer will not help. The warming weather is being affected by the sun and a spot in the galaxy our solar system is moving through. You would have better luck fixing global warming praying to God to fix the sun than for carbon taxes, carbon credits, chemtrailing, or what do the Global Warming is Real Crowd say is the second step after the first step of admitting that GW is real?


It's funny that you would bring up "chemtrailing" ......
 
2012-07-29 03:53:29 PM  
 
2012-07-29 03:54:57 PM  

Smidge204: Justify using only the last 179 samples when we have over a century of direct records.


I notice you never asked for justification in station dropping, or justification in reference datum selection, or justification in a homogenizing methods or other fudge-factoring.

Nothing says "science" like a patent double-standard.
 
2012-07-29 03:56:13 PM  

Smidge204: SevenizGud: The scientists have cherrypicked stations, cherrypicked reference datum, cherrypicked outlier method, cherrypicked homogeneity, cherrypicked smoother

And you're cherrypicking the last 14.9 years. Why 14.9 years, SevenizGud? What is the significance of 14.9 years?



www.gossipsauce.com
Because it's devastating to my case!

 
2012-07-29 03:56:42 PM  

SevenizGud: What climate change?

[www.woodfortrees.org image 640x480]

The scientists have cherrypicked stations, cherrypicked reference datum, cherrypicked outlier method, cherrypicked homogeneity, cherrypicked smoother...in short cherrypicked liked a Lundhal 400 diesel...

and they STILL can't show warming. What a joke!


wotsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com

Also, re the BEST report, the same denialists who signed off on their methodology are suddenly having second thoughts, but only after the results have been posted. That's not science. And formal publication in a peer-reviewed journal doesn't matter quite so much when all of the data is freely available to anyone who wants to see if it's cherrypicked or not.

Your argument IS invalid.
 
2012-07-29 03:56:43 PM  

SevenizGud: Smidge204: Justify using only the last 179 samples when we have over a century of direct records.

I notice you never asked for justification in station dropping, or justification in reference datum selection, or justification in a homogenizing methods or other fudge-factoring.

Nothing says "science" like a patent double-standard.


Muller did none of these things, you know. Yet he got the same result. Funny. But if you'd read the article you'd already know that.
 
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