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44678 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jul 2012 at 3:02 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-27 06:12:35 PM

ArmagedDan: That's because the AR-15 is essentially a hunting rifle with scary-looking black plastic furniture.


There are a lot of states where you'd get in trouble for using a standard .223/5.56 AR to hunt big game... but only because the caliber is too small.
 
2012-07-27 06:13:07 PM

jshine: Rent Party: jshine:

A laser melts metal powder together into a solid metal part. You can print anything you want out of fully dense (and strong) metal, right up to titanium. It's not especially new, but it's not cheap.

If my plan now is 3 axis CNC on 1x4 blocks of 6061 aluminum, would it be suitable for that application? What are the benefits if it isn't cheaper? Obviously it's a hell of a lot cooler (lazers! Wooo!) but is it for specific applications? Is my production going to be higher? Save on materials? What would inspire me to switch gears and go this way?

/ I am not a metals guy, I'm a finance guy. Answers are best if framed for "this guy don't know shiat."

My guess is that it would be more expensive than what you've got planned. The metal sintering process works well for very complex parts. Here's a prosthetic human jaw made from titanium via laser sintering:

[www.popsci.com image 525x370]

It's a good process where you have something complex & difficult to machine and cost is a secondary priority.


Ah OK. That isn't suitable for what I'm doing, then, which is too bad because that's cool as shiat.
 
2012-07-27 06:14:48 PM

Fark It: OMG guns are scary!


This won't end well!
 
2012-07-27 06:14:57 PM

Rent Party: I'm building a business plan right now that incorporates a good deal of CNC work (shop, materials, people, etc...). I've never seen this technology before.

WTF am I looking at?



Direct Metal Laser Sintering (DMLS)

It is a pure additive process vs. a substractive process like a CNC mill.

The EOS Machine can print nearly any geometry regardless of complexity, it does not care.

The Optomec prints in free space so it has restrictions on overhangs etc. But the Optomec can print up to 4 different materials at once, so you can print out stainless holes to later tap for fasteners, but then have it transition to Aluminum as you get to the bulk material of the part.

Another cool thing is that the material properties are comparable to a forging in most cases.

Does that explain it?

Here is a generic article on selective laser sintering, which is like the EOS machine.

Link
 
2012-07-27 06:15:10 PM

OgreMagi: IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: vpb: This is kind of like the people who thought that Glocks were made of plastic and undetectable by metal detectors. It just shows that the regulations need to be updated, that's all.

You've never heard of the Glock 7? The porcelain gun that defeats metal detectors only in movies and was employed by some bad guys in this documentary:

FTFA


i188.photobucket.com

And also

riveraveblues.com
 
2012-07-27 06:15:41 PM

Old_Chief_Scott: Next task: 3D printed panty untwister.


3D printed bra undoer?
 
2012-07-27 06:17:37 PM

Aloy: Old_Chief_Scott: Next task: 3D printed panty untwister.

3D printed bra undoer?


3D printed sex toys
 
2012-07-27 06:18:11 PM

maniacbastard: Forecast 3D printed model gun in DMLS:

[www.forecast-3d.com image 800x250]

[www.forecast-3d.com image 800x250]


I'm a little too fond of my fingers to trust any current 3D printed material to contain 35,000 PSI with the barrel and breech locking mechanism of that.
 
2012-07-27 06:20:06 PM
This changes nothing. In the rest of the world, w

jabelar: But anyway, any industry that is based on cheap, mostly-plastic constructions is really going to be upended by 3D printing very soon.


i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-07-27 06:27:30 PM
images.wikia.com
They've almost reached the 3D printing design core!
 
2012-07-27 06:27:46 PM

digitalrain: Printable guns? ZOMGWTFBBQ! Better start registering your printers, Citizens.

Signed,

The Gov't

/ because we care


WHAT? They have color printers now? They could...OMG!....they could print MONEY! We'd better do something about that!

- they did
 
2012-07-27 06:28:26 PM

Rent Party: jshine:

A laser melts metal powder together into a solid metal part. You can print anything you want out of fully dense (and strong) metal, right up to titanium. It's not especially new, but it's not cheap.

If my plan now is 3 axis CNC on 1x4 blocks of 6061 aluminum, would it be suitable for that application? What are the benefits if it isn't cheaper? Obviously it's a hell of a lot cooler (lazers! Wooo!) but is it for specific applications? Is my production going to be higher? Save on materials? What would inspire me to switch gears and go this way?

/ I am not a metals guy, I'm a finance guy. Answers are best if framed for "this guy don't know shiat."


Depends on the application, additive manufacture vs subtractive.

Try to machine something like this out of a solid block.

www.bathsheba.com
 
2012-07-27 06:28:47 PM

jshine: JesseL: I'm glad we have guns as an option for homicidal nuts who crave fame. If guns weren't available as such an obvious and attractive tool to them, more of them would probably uses bombs or arson and manage to kill a lot more people. As it is, most shooters only manage to kill a number of people similar to what nuts with knives pull off.

...or, if you want to go really crazy, here's the complete genome of the variola virus (i.e., "smallpox"). At modern gene synthesis prices (say $0.35/base pair) this would cost about $65k to create from scratch -- maybe few hundred $k to actually use. It's airborne & incredibly virulent -- and nobody around today has any real immunity since it's been "extinct" in the wild for decades.

Sleep well!


I will since I've been vacinated for small pox. Anthrax too.
Fark the rest of you. Im opening up the windows on smallpox day.

/ Im sure nothing bad at all will come from the Army shooting various vials of chemicals into me.
 
2012-07-27 06:37:23 PM

MythDragon: jshine: JesseL: I'm glad we have guns as an option for homicidal nuts who crave fame. If guns weren't available as such an obvious and attractive tool to them, more of them would probably uses bombs or arson and manage to kill a lot more people. As it is, most shooters only manage to kill a number of people similar to what nuts with knives pull off.

...or, if you want to go really crazy, here's the complete genome of the variola virus (i.e., "smallpox"). At modern gene synthesis prices (say $0.35/base pair) this would cost about $65k to create from scratch -- maybe few hundred $k to actually use. It's airborne & incredibly virulent -- and nobody around today has any real immunity since it's been "extinct" in the wild for decades.

Sleep well!

I will since I've been vacinated for small pox. Anthrax too.
Fark the rest of you. Im opening up the windows on smallpox day.

/ Im sure nothing bad at all will come from the Army shooting various vials of chemicals into me.




It kinda makes you wonder how they tested the vaccine though -- since the virus is basically extinct...

/not that I'd ever play Devil's advocate or anything...
 
2012-07-27 06:45:49 PM

Cyno01:
This is a little scary because theres nothing to stop some technically literate but gun ignorant psycho from printing off a full auto receiver either.


Hollywood has people convinced that full-auto is something magical. But in reality, it usually means impressively rapid misses. A heavy machine gun mounted on a tripod or in a ring-turret is one, but a submachine gun or assault rifle is another. Aimed fire will beat 'spray-and-pray' almost every time.
 
2012-07-27 06:49:05 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: [www.extremetech.com image 638x371]

Now when I see that I think, there is a good weapon to go hunting with! Other than killing people who needs a gun comparable to what the military uses?


Well, for the coming zombie Apocalypse.
Or, the chaos during a extreme CME
Or extended drought.
Or Mitt Romney...
 
2012-07-27 06:57:57 PM

vpb: t3knomanser: vpb: It just shows that the regulations need to be updated, that's all.

The regulations already cover this. You're allowed to fabricate your own firearms. If you intend to sell them, there are all sorts of extra requirements, and depending on the specific firearm you make, you may have to pay a $200 tax stamp. I don't know all the rules, not having the skills, equipment, or inclination to make my own firearms.

Yes, but the point is that the most tightly controlled part is now very easy to make. Unless things have changed, you can buy everything except the lower receiver through the mail.

But it's true that someone with a CNC milling machine could make one just as easily.


last I looked the upper was the serialized part on my .22
 
2012-07-27 07:04:33 PM

Charlie Chingas: They should immediately create legislation to have owners register their 3D printers. They also need to better police websites that you can download those types of templates. If people would just be more receptive about things like PIPA and SOPA. When something horrible happens because these were legal, you'll be the first ones to cry about how terrible it was. Most printer owners agree that 3D printers should belong in the hands of the government.


Watch what you say there, we might be seeing a politician on capitol hill trying to pass legislation next month in regards to this. Because an oppressed society with tons of regulations and rules is a happier one than one with common sense rules and a population who can handle itself.
 
2012-07-27 07:06:24 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: [www.extremetech.com image 638x371]

Now when I see that I think, there is a good weapon to go hunting with! Other than killing people who needs a gun comparable to what the military uses?


You could hunt squirrels or chipmunks with it.

A deer would just get pissed and run off if you shot him with that thing.
 
2012-07-27 07:12:29 PM
BEHOLD the AR lower made from a plastic cutting board.

www.weaponeer.net
 
2012-07-27 07:15:10 PM

jshine: MythDragon: jshine: JesseL: I'm glad we have guns as an option for homicidal nuts who crave fame. If guns weren't available as such an obvious and attractive tool to them, more of them would probably uses bombs or arson and manage to kill a lot more people. As it is, most shooters only manage to kill a number of people similar to what nuts with knives pull off.

...or, if you want to go really crazy, here's the complete genome of the variola virus (i.e., "smallpox"). At modern gene synthesis prices (say $0.35/base pair) this would cost about $65k to create from scratch -- maybe few hundred $k to actually use. It's airborne & incredibly virulent -- and nobody around today has any real immunity since it's been "extinct" in the wild for decades.

Sleep well!

I will since I've been vacinated for small pox. Anthrax too.
Fark the rest of you. Im opening up the windows on smallpox day.

/ Im sure nothing bad at all will come from the Army shooting various vials of chemicals into me.



It kinda makes you wonder how they tested the vaccine though -- since the virus is basically extinct...

/not that I'd ever play Devil's advocate or anything...


Only in the wild. It's alive and well in BSL4 labs (such as USAMRID) for that very purpose. Although for the smallpox vaccine, you dont get smallpox, you get cowpox since they are similar enough to build your immunity to it, and cowpox wont kill you.

/learning can be fun!
 
2012-07-27 07:19:05 PM

FishyFred:



You're saying that the part of the gun that takes the most wear and tear and has to be the most durable CAN be printed?

That's pretty bad.


No, the lower can be printed. The lower is the serialized portion, i.e. the part that is considered the firearm, but it is not the part that need to be the most durable.

The upper contains the chamber, bolt, and barrel. Those are what contain all the pressure and take the punishment.
 
2012-07-27 07:23:47 PM
Plastic AR-15 lowers have been around a fairly long time. Cavalry Arms made a bunch, and they even came in fun and pretty colors. Sure, they weren't printed, but they WERE recyclable. Seriously. They even had the recycle symbol in the magwell.
 
2012-07-27 07:25:31 PM

Rent Party: Representative of the unwashed masses: [www.extremetech.com image 638x371]

Now when I see that I think, there is a good weapon to go hunting with! Other than killing people who needs a gun comparable to what the military uses?

That thing fires a .22 round. You might hunt squirrels and ground hogs with it, but for anything larger, it's not going to be ideal.

It will be ideal for firing thousands of rounds out camping, blowing up cans and bottles, and putting holes into abandoned cars. All worthy firearms related activities.


Heck, I used to bullseye whamprats back home with a .22 and they're no bigger than 2 meters!
 
2012-07-27 07:26:49 PM

davidab: vpb: t3knomanser: vpb: It just shows that the regulations need to be updated, that's all.

The regulations already cover this. You're allowed to fabricate your own firearms. If you intend to sell them, there are all sorts of extra requirements, and depending on the specific firearm you make, you may have to pay a $200 tax stamp. I don't know all the rules, not having the skills, equipment, or inclination to make my own firearms.

Yes, but the point is that the most tightly controlled part is now very easy to make. Unless things have changed, you can buy everything except the lower receiver through the mail.

But it's true that someone with a CNC milling machine could make one just as easily.

last I looked the upper was the serialized part on my .22


It depends on the gun. On AR-15s the lower is the firearm.
 
2012-07-27 07:27:53 PM
MythDragon:

Only in the wild. It's alive and well in BSL4 labs (such as USAMRID) for that very purpose. Although for the smallpox vaccine, you dont get smallpox, you get cowpox since they are similar enough to build your immunity to it, and cowpox wont kill you.

/learning can be fun!



...indeed. Recall you're talking to a person who posted a link to a genome on NCBI and knows the going-rate for DNA synthesis. What do you *think* my background might be?

/ learning *is* fun ;-)
 
2012-07-27 07:32:07 PM
OMG! It's an AK-47! KILL IT WITH FIRE!
 
2012-07-27 07:32:42 PM
I hope someone in this thread explains what 3D printing is. I've read about it but still don't understand it.
 
2012-07-27 07:37:58 PM
Enjoy your flight...

www.nydailynews.com
 
2012-07-27 07:55:10 PM

Bucky Katt: I hope someone in this thread explains what 3D printing is. I've read about it but still don't understand it.


Have you ever read "The Diamond Age?"

It's like that, only not quite as cool.
 
2012-07-27 08:25:20 PM
The San Jose Airport (some Spanish name) confiscated a .22 Ruger Mark III gun clip (or "magazine" for you old-school people, please read a new dictionary) a few years back.

Never got it back, but it's not worth the time to try.
 
2012-07-27 08:45:27 PM

Bucky Katt: I hope someone in this thread explains what 3D printing is. I've read about it but still don't understand it.


It is printing in three dimensions. The printer lays down a thin layer of material which is a bisection of the part. The material is hardened and then the next layer is laid down on top of the first. This is repeated until you have whatever shape you want.

/you're welcome
 
2012-07-27 08:47:57 PM
Oops. Cross-section, not bisection.
 
2012-07-27 08:47:57 PM

scubamage: Someone who isn't me thinks that the most interesting use is using this to turn an AR into a fully automatic by 3d printing the modified trigger assembly and installing it in place of the stock semi-automatic trigger assembly. People already do this in machine shops.


It doesn't work that way. A full-auto AR has different internal parts. The receiver is more or less the same except for an extra hole.
 
2012-07-27 08:50:00 PM

Oblio13: Cyno01:
This is a little scary because theres nothing to stop some technically literate but gun ignorant psycho from printing off a full auto receiver either.

Hollywood has people convinced that full-auto is something magical. But in reality, it usually means impressively rapid misses. A heavy machine gun mounted on a tripod or in a ring-turret is one, but a submachine gun or assault rifle is another. Aimed fire will beat 'spray-and-pray' almost every time.


Yeah, full auto is meant for suppression unless mounted like you said. People watch these action movies with the hero firing at full auto for for 10 minutes and they never have to change the magazine. In reality, that magazine (usually 20-30 rounds) will be done in 3-4 seconds of sustained fire. Even our soldiers only carry about 200 rounds or so on them, it's just not how it's depicted in movies.
 
2012-07-27 09:21:14 PM
Guns don't kill people, but they sure help!
 
2012-07-27 09:29:45 PM

pciszek: vpb: If he can print a barrel or ammunition then I will be impressed.

Ammunition much easier to buy than guns.

As for barrels--what specifically makes them hard to make with an ordinary machine shop? Could they be CNC'ed, then thermally and chemically hardened? Or printed in powdered metal, sintered, then bored with a jig that could be made/printed with ordinary machines?


Absolutely nothing makes it hard. You can buy the blanks, or mill them yourself - rifling and bore just need a good lathe.

Something like this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/g4003g

//drool
 
2012-07-27 09:45:24 PM

PsyLord: bhcompy: [p1.la-img.com image 600x301]

Amateurs

Came for that reference.


As did I.... so, is the gun in that movie not feasible? If it is... seems like that would be pretty easy to "print".
 
2012-07-27 10:09:06 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: and aren't paranoid that the government is one day going to take everything that they hold dear


Did you say you were a Canadian? A subject of the Crown?


When they make a list of governments who have taken things from people I'm pretty sure English Crown is at the top of the list.

They have a bit of a history....

Can you even own land in Canada? Isn't it all the Queens private property that they let people lease?
 
2012-07-27 10:09:28 PM
You can tell by the channel in the magazine that this is a 22LR masquerading as a .223 pistol, but don't worry about a gun like that in .223 becoming a weapon of choice by anyone. It is awful. I have three.

olyarms.net

There is so much unburnt powder from the .223 round fired from a 6" barrel that the muzzle flash is blinding and the noise is nearly intolerable with earplugs - only quality earmuffs or muffs + plugs made it tolerable. The kick is comparable to a .44 magnum upwards, making rapid fire impossible (the manufacturer suggests it isn't designed to dissipate heat from more than one round every seven seconds).

It is utterly impractical for home defense:
-the muzzle flash at night would destroy your own night vision, leaving you helpless should you miss - which you probably will
-the noise without any ear protection is probably like having a flash-bang grenade thrown at you. It's really loud.
-the .223 round, even with a short barrel, is overpenetrating and a miss would fly through drywall into something you didn't intend to shoot
-lack of laser attachment rail
-you'll shoot your eye out kid

It's not something you can take to a pistol range - they won't allow rifle caliber guns.
It's not something you can hunt with, mostly for the same disadvantages as home defense, plus the 223 isn't a big-game round. On small game like turkey, you're better off with a hunting revolver.

About the only thing this type of gun is good for is reminding you of how utterly impractical it is when you fire it, because it's really fun to shoot.
 
2012-07-27 10:25:00 PM
AR-15 and its derivatives suck.

/That is all.
 
2012-07-27 11:05:59 PM

iivel: pciszek: vpb: If he can print a barrel or ammunition then I will be impressed.

Ammunition much easier to buy than guns.

As for barrels--what specifically makes them hard to make with an ordinary machine shop? Could they be CNC'ed, then thermally and chemically hardened? Or printed in powdered metal, sintered, then bored with a jig that could be made/printed with ordinary machines?

Absolutely nothing makes it hard. You can buy the blanks, or mill them yourself - rifling and bore just need a good lathe.

Something like this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/g4003g

//drool


A lathe by itself won't make a gun barrel. What you need is a gun drill and a rifling machine.

www.border-barrels.com


The lathe you linked is good for turning taking pre-made barrel blanks (big cylindrical chunks of steel with a rifled hole in them) and cutting the outside profile, reaming the chamber, threading the shank, and crowning. Not so much for making the barrel blanks themselves though.

With a bit of ingenuity and talent you could modify a lathe to do gun drilling and rifling, but it's not a minor undertaking and you would be limited to pretty short barrels..
 
2012-07-27 11:39:38 PM
I'm reading Diamond Age. I can't help thinking a 3D printer is like a "matter compiler."
 
2012-07-27 11:45:59 PM
Wait, you're saying that humans can MAKE things?
I thought guns just grew on trees in a magical land.
 
2012-07-28 12:13:04 AM

jshine: MythDragon:

Only in the wild. It's alive and well in BSL4 labs (such as USAMRID) for that very purpose. Although for the smallpox vaccine, you dont get smallpox, you get cowpox since they are similar enough to build your immunity to it, and cowpox wont kill you.

/learning can be fun!


...indeed. Recall you're talking to a person who posted a link to a genome on NCBI and knows the going-rate for DNA synthesis. What do you *think* my background might be?

/ learning *is* fun ;-)



Well then you should have known how easy it would be for them to study smallpox then. Why'd you ask if you knew so much?

I wasn't really paying attention to whatever you had posted earlier. Besides, with google and wikipedia, anyone can sound like they know what they are talking about. That's what I do to suppliment the small random facts I know.

:P

Did you know you can't actual *kill* a virus, because it's not technicaly alive?
 
2012-07-28 12:18:32 AM
 
2012-07-28 12:28:46 AM

JesseL: iivel: pciszek: vpb: If he can print a barrel or ammunition then I will be impressed.

Ammunition much easier to buy than guns.

As for barrels--what specifically makes them hard to make with an ordinary machine shop? Could they be CNC'ed, then thermally and chemically hardened? Or printed in powdered metal, sintered, then bored with a jig that could be made/printed with ordinary machines?

Absolutely nothing makes it hard. You can buy the blanks, or mill them yourself - rifling and bore just need a good lathe.

Something like this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/g4003g

//drool

A lathe by itself won't make a gun barrel. What you need is a gun drill and a rifling machine.

[www.border-barrels.com image 500x335]


The lathe you linked is good for turning taking pre-made barrel blanks (big cylindrical chunks of steel with a rifled hole in them) and cutting the outside profile, reaming the chamber, threading the shank, and crowning. Not so much for making the barrel blanks themselves though.

With a bit of ingenuity and talent you could modify a lathe to do gun drilling and rifling, but it's not a minor undertaking and you would be limited to pretty short barrels..


Guns can/are made by people living in caves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGVianQJsmQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khyber_Pass_Copy
 
2012-07-28 12:43:55 AM

albuquerquehalsey: Guns can/are made by people living in caves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGVianQJsmQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khyber_Pass_Copy


In reality, most of the barrels used for Khyber Pass guns are salvaged from broken guns and battlefield pickups.

People can and have crafted some amazing stuff with ridiculously simple tools, but it takes some serious ingenuity and skill.

Here's a simple rifling machine:
farm3.staticflickr.com

The point I was making though, is just that a lathe isn't exactly the tool you need to get it done.
 
2012-07-28 12:54:08 AM
Awesome! Skynet won't even need an assembly line to make a phased plasma rifle, just a 3D printer.
 
2012-07-28 01:55:45 AM
Waiting for my 3D printed vagina...


/make love, not war
 
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