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(Yahoo)   Polls show that religion will have little impact on this presidential race as most Americans don't care that Mitt Romney is a Mormon or that Obama is a Muslim   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 66
    More: Interesting, Mitt Romney, obama, muslims, Americans, presidential race, Pew Research Center, Jimmy Dean, places of worship  
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426 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jul 2012 at 9:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-27 11:11:24 AM

Boatmech: WinoRhino: How about facts? How are people feeling about those these days?

Hey, I know! Let's take a poll of less than 3000 randomly chosen people™ to find out how the other 300+million people feel.
/im sure it will be absolutely accurate and consistent.


Everyone who has ever learned anything about statistics is laughing at you.
 
2012-07-27 11:18:10 AM
Fundamentalists hate Mormons but generally not as much as they hate attractive and successful African-Americans.
 
2012-07-27 11:22:57 AM

Boatmech: WinoRhino: How about facts? How are people feeling about those these days?

Hey, I know! Let's take a poll of less than 3000 randomly chosen people™ to find out how the other 300+million people feel.
/im sure it will be absolutely accurate and consistent.

I hate to do it but...
photo.goodreads.com

 
2012-07-27 12:15:55 PM
www.vcaa.com

What kind of terrible person thinks that a person's religion influences him at all? Sure, Romney is hoping to join his spirit babies on his Kolob-like planet, but this doesn't mean that his rational thinking is impaired!
 
2012-07-27 12:31:34 PM

gimmegimme: [www.vcaa.com image 716x524]


Holy crap.

1. I've seen application/system diagrams with less going on than that.
2. Looks like a drawing from one of John Doe's notebooks.

// shiat, the Kabbalistic diagram of the crowns of glory looks like the Republican Road to Recovery next to that
 
2012-07-27 12:32:51 PM

farkityfarker: readbot42: farkityfarker: I'm guessing they're both atheists but realize they can't admit it considering whom they have to pander to.

Obama, perhaps (I'd hope) but Romney's a true believer. Unless he's flip flopped on that as well.

There's a difference between being part of the Mormon hierarchy and actually believing in God.

Romney never seems to mention a belief in God. Of course, it could be that he just doesn't want to remind evangelical Christians in the south what his religion is.


There are signs about Romney's actual belief or lack thereof. Remember him very casually offering to bet Rick Perry $10k on national television? Most pundits were talking about how out-of-touch with the middle class that made Romney appear, but there's another issue about that.

Namely, this.

Read (in most any language), listen to, or even watch on video as, less than 1¾ decades ago, the man whom Romney should've acknowledged in his heart as the LORD God's chosen and anointed Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, as well as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, said in no uncertain terms that the Church is very much opposed to gambling in any form!

But wait, there's more! Remember not so long ago, during the primaries, when Romney implied that the poor were to blame for their own poverty? There was at least one FARK thread gone green in the Politics tab on that, IIRC.

Now read this!

/At least he's not quite as bad a Mormon as Glenn Beck is, who publicly committed an excommunication-level sin on his radio show about a year ago!
 
2012-07-27 12:34:38 PM

WinoRhino: How about facts? How are people feeling about those these days?


Facts are irrelevant.
 
2012-07-27 01:05:51 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Fundamentalists hate Mormons but generally not as much as they hate attractive and successful African-Americans.


and, this.
 
2012-07-27 01:24:54 PM
Oh look, Town Hall is trying to explain something about politics again-OH GOD RUN!!!!

aux-www.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2012-07-27 01:26:15 PM
Damn you, multiple tabs. Still though, cat lady. *nudge*
 
2012-07-27 01:49:10 PM
Mr President.....
It's 3am and Israel just nuked Iran because Iran doesn't give a shiat about bullies like Israel.
What do you do?

/Onward christian soldiers. Killing in the name of your god. Converting all the heathens. For the glorious jesus land.
 
2012-07-27 04:18:22 PM
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net


FUNFACT: UTAH was the VERY FIRST STATE to outlaw 'marihuana devils weed with roots in H3LL!' in 1914 because, after SCOTUS ruled they could believe whatever batsh*t crazy crap they wanted to in their religious mass-delusion, they could not condone polygamy. SO...

A bunch of crybabies moved to NW Mexico to try to set their church up there. Well, those 'stupid heathens' weren't so stupid because the morons -- excuse me, the mormons had no luck converting them, however, when they returned to Utah, they took W33D with them. W33D was summarily outlawed by the Mormon church and -- who do you think were the elected officials in Utah, in 1914? Mormons.

/tinyurl.com/1mn
//it's a war on minority habits to replace outlawed slave labor with prison labor
/alcohol is the most dangerous drug on the planet, but it's the WHITE MAN'S drug
//keep f*cking that chicken, Rmoney
 
2012-07-28 01:30:46 AM

gimmegimme: [www.vcaa.com image 716x524]

What kind of terrible person thinks that a person's religion influences him at all? Sure, Romney is hoping to join his spirit babies on his Kolob-like planet, but this doesn't mean that his rational thinking is impaired!


Dr Dreidel: Holy crap.

1. I've seen application/system diagrams with less going on than that.
2. Looks like a drawing from one of John Doe's notebooks.

// shiat, the Kabbalistic diagram of the crowns of glory looks like the Republican Road to Recovery next to that


Actually, that chart has been edited a bit for the consumption of new converts. Notice how there are three divisions in the Celestial Kingdom, but other than baptism for the lowest level, it doesn't say what the other two levels require, and only mentions that the top one includes "Eternal Families"?

To get into the second level, one must be Endowed in the Temple (Baptism and Confirmation are pre-requisites to this, and it cannot take place less than one year following Confirmation). To get into the top level (Exaltation, which means becoming a god of one's own universe, and having progeny eternally, thus the "Eternal Families" euphemism), one must be married in the Temple (Endowment is a prerequisite).

I'm curious as to why "Final Judgment" was placed before (to the left of) Resurrection. Was that a labeling error? As I understand it, everyone gets resurrected (the righteous about a millennium earlier than the unrighteous), then judged.

Kurmudgeon: darkedgefan: I learned that most american's did not care about religion when they learned that Obama went to that wack job, Reverand Wright's 'church'. Sitting there for who knows how many 'sermons' of that arse hole bashing America

Oh, did you keep count or did you just pull that out of your ass?
Let us know when Romney repudiates the golden plates and Joseph Smith and Urim and Thurrim and too much other off the wall beliefs to list here.There's a lot more than magic underwear, that's for sure.


As crazy as their doctrines sound, interestingly enough, the LDS Plan of Salvation is pretty much the only way I know of to salvage all of Christianity from a truly horrendous logical conundrum, but for it to work, you have to accept all of that really "out there" stuff, especially including the part about men becoming gods. (It also nicely resolves Epicurus's famous conundrum.)

According to mainstream Christianity, we all need Jesus because of Original Sin in addition to our own, and indeed we'd have no sin of our own were it not for Original Sin. That happened in the Garden of Eden when Eve (and/or Adam) ate the Fruit. Until then, Creation was perfect.

So, who is responsible for Original Sin? Eve was deceived by the Serpent (aka Satan according to Christianity, though that's not flatly stated until towards the very end of the Bible, in Revelation), but what did the Serpent actually do? He merely asked her about the prohibition against eating of the Tree of Knowledge, and claimed that God wasn't being truthful when He told them that they would surely die in the very day that they ate of it (which He wasn't, as it turned out!). The Serpent said that God knew that if they ate it, they would become "as gods, knowing good from evil." God Himself later confirmed the truth of this: "Behold the man is become as one of Us, knowing good from evil!" So, God lied and the Serpent told the truth and God Himself admitted this!

But wait, it gets better!

• Who created the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the first place? The Serpent? Satan?

• Who placed it in the middle ("midst") of the Garden of Eden, the one spot that, geometrically / geologically speaking, Adam and Eve could not get as far away from as they could any other spot in the Garden, without leaving the Garden entirely!? Did the Serpent do that?

• The Serpent didn't even point out to Eve that the Tree and its Fruit were "pleasant to the eye, and good for food, a tree desirable to make one wise." Eve saw that it was that way on her own! Which means that it already was enticing to the human senses! Who made it that way?

The LORD God did all of those things! Genesis explicitly says the first two point blank!

Is He not God!? Is He not omniscient!? Does He not know the end from the beginning!?

Then did He not know for an absolute certainty, ∞ eons in advance before He ever said, "Let there be light," exactly what would happen if He created that Tree, and put it in the middle of the Garden, and made it so enticing to the senses, and then forbade His created human couple from eating it, and then let the Serpent / Satan tempt them to do precisely that!? If He is truly omniscient, then there is absolutely zero chance that things could've happened any other way than what He knew all along, for all eternity!

So, if He is indeed omniscient, then it couldn't've been a test, since there is no need to test what one knows for an absolute certainty.

According to mainstream Christianity, everything bad that has ever happened or ever will happened is a direct result of the eating of the Fruit! All of the sin, suffering, horror, and death, followed by eternal damnation, faced by every living thing ever to exist, with only a small percentage of humanity to be offered a form of salvation from that last one in the end (but still after a lifetime of the others) because God would later send His Own Son to be tortured to death!all of this because someone bit into a fruit!

There are only two possibilities here, unless the LDS faith (or something like it) is true, or Christianity as a whole is false. Either:

• God knew what would happen ∞ eons before He made that Tree, exactly what would happen as a result, and yet He did it anyway. Or:

• God did not know for sure what would happen as a result. It really was a test, and God did not know the outcome, nor the consequences.

The latter would make Him not truly omniscient, and thus not God, at least, not the infinite, omnipotent, and omniscient God that mainstream Christianity believes in.

The former is far worse: it makes God out to be ∞ly more evil than Satan could ever even think about imagining about contemplating about speculating about dreaming about remotely approaching being!

Yet, if mainstream Christianity is true, then one or the other of these must be true! It's a valid dichotomy: either He knew, or He didn't know. No other possibilities.

So, how does the LDS Plan of Salvation save Christianity from this? Simple: yes, God set us all up. But, He had good reason.

Why do good parents not do their children's homework for them? The kids think that that's so mean of them! But, they have very good reason: the purpose of their childhood, including schooling, is to prepare them for adulthood, and the responsibilities thereof, including becoming good parents in their own right. If the children do not do the homework, they don't learn, and won't be prepared for adult responsibilities and adult life. Worse, if they aren't prepared, and yet try to have families of their own, they won't know how to properly raise their own children, perpetuating a cycle of failure.

According to LDS belief, the whole purpose of mortality is to prepare us to become gods in our own right, and for that, we need to experience the equivalent of school. We need to overcome "opposition in all things," as the LDS teach.

God needed creation to be imperfect for this to happen. He needed there to be mortality and suffering. Yet, He, being perfect, could not directly create imperfection. His creations would be perfect in their limited aspects, since He Himself is perfect in all things.

Only disobedience could cause imperfection to come into creation, so yes, God set Adam and Eve up to fall.

Again, this only works if you accept the "men becoming gods" thing. It doesn't work if the sole purpose of saved Christians is to sing anthems to and praise God for all eternity. That just makes God out to be even more evil, if He creates the vast majority of His creation to fail just so a relative few can have the eternal pleasure of stroking His ego forever.


urban.derelict: FUNFACT: UTAH was the VERY FIRST STATE to outlaw 'marihuana devils weed with roots in H3LL!' in 1914 because, after SCOTUS ruled they could believe whatever batsh*t crazy crap they wanted to in their religious mass-delusion, they could not condone polygamy. SO...


Actually, that apparently isn't true. There are a lot of Google hits on that, but they all copy each other and none that I could find refer to any actual primary source for that alleged 1914 law (I wanted to read it to find out if it also banned tobacco, alcohol, coffee, and tea, which would certainly make it a Mormonism-driven law if it did). And even if that law turns out to be real, several other States and localities (outside of the Mormon Corridor) beat Utah to the punch, banning it as early as 1911 (Massachusetts!).

This essay may be from a biased source, but the research looks pretty solid.

Seems that urban.derelict has posted an urban.myth.
 
2012-07-28 01:11:17 PM

T-Servo: My parents are still hoping that Newt steals the nomination.


My mother is still sold on Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan. Yeah, national tax policy should be modeled after a promotion to sell pizza.
 
2012-07-28 01:35:43 PM
I'm not voting for Obama because Romney is a Mormon.
I'm voting for Obama because Romney is a Moron.
 
2012-07-28 07:20:43 PM
Benni K Rok
2012-07-28 01:35:43 PM

I'm not voting for Obama because Romney is a Mormon.
I'm voting for Obama because Romney is a Moron.

Ditto...
Add to that, Romneys daddy as gov, and mittens as the son of said gov, and then mittens as gov...
learn the history of the boy to man, and see he should not lead.
Rmoney, it is our money...
 
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