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(BBC-US)   CEO of Valve: "Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space"   (bbc.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Gabe Newell, window, open source software, Valve Software, open platform, Team Fortress, Left 4 Dead  
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10602 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Jul 2012 at 1:06 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-26 10:15:12 AM  
He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.
 
2012-07-26 10:20:53 AM  
Steve Ballmer is a horrible CEO. Guy has no vision, he enters into markets he shouldn't enter into (or my favorite, markets where he already failed horribly, like the tablet PC market), he enters into markets five years after the market is saturated. He builds devices with few features and those that have features he sucks at communicating to the public. He builds software with stupid features (ribbon, DIAF), the only thing he hasn't managed to totally blow is the OS market and he's certainly trying to blow that.

Marketing is a huge disaster at Microsoft. Some of their development sucks, but their ads suck, they go after the wrong demographics (turning the XBox software into a Nintendo clone is borderline retarded when you consider that most of your games are not geared to children and old people like the Nintendo was).

He needs to be let go.
 
2012-07-26 10:25:03 AM  
I'm not sure how Steam is going to get all the developers to port their games to run on Linux - perhaps Steam for Linux has something integrated that's like Cedega/Wine? Sort of like how GOG.com runs the really old stuff off of a modified DOSbox?
 
2012-07-26 10:29:35 AM  
Man. Sucks that MS is forcing everyone to switch to Windows 8, just like they did with Vista.
 
2012-07-26 10:45:04 AM  

bdub77: (turning the XBox software into a Nintendo clone is borderline retarded when you consider that most of your games are not geared to children and old people like the Nintendo was).


I don't fully agree with this. Yes, the kinect is obviously a gimmick but what has happened with the Xbox since the original concept is a good idea. The Xbox, as I recall, was originally slated as the hardcore gamers' system. They can keep the demographic with good games but they have also done well by investing as a media center. I can play a game one minute and then switch to Netflix a second later. If I want to watch something from my windows media center then I can stream it there. I can pull up YouTube, watch ESPN, listen to Music, etc. It's more user friendly then the PS3 and has more options than the Wii. It also helps that they can change the Xbox OS to serve what they want to focus on than they could in systems past. The Xbox 360 of 2006 isn't the Xbox 360 of 2012.

/I don't have cable and don't game like I used too
//But I have my Xbox on almost daily to keep myself entertained.
///Too bad ESPN3 doesn't work with my ISP
 
2012-07-26 11:05:06 AM  

Aar1012: bdub77: (turning the XBox software into a Nintendo clone is borderline retarded when you consider that most of your games are not geared to children and old people like the Nintendo was).

I don't fully agree with this. Yes, the kinect is obviously a gimmick but what has happened with the Xbox since the original concept is a good idea. The Xbox, as I recall, was originally slated as the hardcore gamers' system. They can keep the demographic with good games but they have also done well by investing as a media center. I can play a game one minute and then switch to Netflix a second later. If I want to watch something from my windows media center then I can stream it there. I can pull up YouTube, watch ESPN, listen to Music, etc. It's more user friendly then the PS3 and has more options than the Wii. It also helps that they can change the Xbox OS to serve what they want to focus on than they could in systems past. The Xbox 360 of 2006 isn't the Xbox 360 of 2012.

/I don't have cable and don't game like I used too
//But I have my Xbox on almost daily to keep myself entertained.
///Too bad ESPN3 doesn't work with my ISP


I'm more referring to their avatar creation screens and blantant ripoff of what Nintendo was doing with their intro screens. Their partnering w/Netfix and other media streams - well frankly just about any media center device, including bluray hardware, does that. Microsoft hasn't exactly been innovating in that space.
 
2012-07-26 11:05:08 AM  

Aar1012: bdub77: (turning the XBox software into a Nintendo clone is borderline retarded when you consider that most of your games are not geared to children and old people like the Nintendo was).

I don't fully agree with this. Yes, the kinect is obviously a gimmick but what has happened with the Xbox since the original concept is a good idea. The Xbox, as I recall, was originally slated as the hardcore gamers' system. They can keep the demographic with good games but they have also done well by investing as a media center. I can play a game one minute and then switch to Netflix a second later. If I want to watch something from my windows media center then I can stream it there. I can pull up YouTube, watch ESPN, listen to Music, etc. It's more user friendly then the PS3 and has more options than the Wii. It also helps that they can change the Xbox OS to serve what they want to focus on than they could in systems past. The Xbox 360 of 2006 isn't the Xbox 360 of 2012.

/I don't have cable and don't game like I used too
//But I have my Xbox on almost daily to keep myself entertained.
///Too bad ESPN3 doesn't work with my ISP


The requirement to have XBL to watch HBO Go, Netflix, Amazon, etc is retarded...considering the fact that between most BluRay players and a Roku player, you have almost every streaming service that the Xbox offers.

I like the connect because I can yell at the TV (pause, play, etc.) The games for it are dumb. The hands free option is fantastic.

As for the business world, only now are a lot of companies starting to go to Windows 7 as business XP support is going away soon. Very few business will be early adopters of W8. Furthermore, I suspect that the majority of the business world will skip right over W8. W7 is stable and will be around in the business world for a long time to come.
 
2012-07-26 11:06:14 AM  

ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.


qft

as much as i hate the new interface it isn't anything but an aggravation.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-26 11:15:30 AM  

ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.


No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.
 
2012-07-26 11:16:28 AM  

RexTalionis: I'm not sure how Steam is going to get all the developers to port their games to run on Linux - perhaps Steam for Linux has something integrated that's like Cedega/Wine? Sort of like how GOG.com runs the really old stuff off of a modified DOSbox?


There have been some developers wrapping their games in Cider or Wine so they can run on MacOS X, so they are SteamPlay games. I have both The Witcher and Serious Sam 3 on OS X like this, though I haven't actually played the Mac versions yet, so I can't speak for how they perform.

Would it be so hard to do similar to run on Linux? I mean Wine was originally for running Windows apps under Linux, wasn't it? Also several of the indie developers make Linux versions of their games (I see them often in the Humble Bundles). So, it probably wouldn't be too hard to build a market there at least as large as the Mac market on Steam. Especially if they port all of the Source games, like they seem to be planning to.

It'll be a start, at least.
 
2012-07-26 11:17:11 AM  

vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.


And yet, that's A-OK for iPads. Got it.
 
2012-07-26 12:33:26 PM  

Aar1012: bdub77: (turning the XBox software into a Nintendo clone is borderline retarded when you consider that most of your games are not geared to children and old people like the Nintendo was).

I don't fully agree with this. Yes, the kinect is obviously a gimmick


The Kinect is actually a fairly sophisticated motion sensor system, capable of rendering 2D images into 3D. It is, IMO, one of the final saving graces of Microsoft.

I love this guy's work:
Link
Link
 
2012-07-26 12:47:19 PM  
Microsoft takes a cut, up to 30%, of every sale made through this store.

It's the ghost of Steve Jobs.
 
2012-07-26 12:53:46 PM  

vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.


The really scary part is that a large number of people seem to want this, based upon the insanely huge sums of cash people are prepared to shovel into Apple´s wallet.
 
2012-07-26 01:11:07 PM  
Shut up and give me Half Life 2, Episode 3.
 
2012-07-26 01:15:03 PM  
I just want to be able to play Sacred 2 again.
 
2012-07-26 01:15:15 PM  

vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.


And what are those "some" versions? The version that runs on Kiosks in the mall? Power PC version? Newell has been known in the past to talk a lot of stupid.. For as smart as he is he also likes to stomp his feet over stupid shiat.
 
2012-07-26 01:18:12 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.

And yet, that's A-OK for iPads. Got it.


Who said anything like that?

Apple's dictatorial app store system is shiat, and MS simply copying Apple will be shiat as well. People will use it, but that doesn't stop it from being shiat.

Steam for Android is a long-term project. Right now it's just for purchasing games and using the social functions of the Steam client, but eventually it will be a full app store as well. If Valve can get Steam and games solidified on Linux, Android would be the obvious next target. Pan-platform gaming is still a long way away, but we're starting to see roots taking hold, most of it thanks to Valve and their Steam product.

Valve is pushing the way forward. As they break new ground and generate profits in the process, others will follow.
 
2012-07-26 01:19:52 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.

And yet, that's A-OK for iPads. Got it.


I'd say it's fine for Windows Tablets, too. However, I don't have to use the app store for anything but Apple software on my Mac. I think Newell's complaint is a valid one - MS is limiting access to full-scale computers from third parties, made by third parties. This is different than limiting content on their own hardware, and is one of the things that shows how much of a mistake building one OS for all types of devices is.

Of course, MS has every right to do it, but I think it will hurt them in the long run.
 
2012-07-26 01:25:35 PM  
Fat dude from Valve makes sensationalist comments. Must be Thursday.
 
2012-07-26 01:26:07 PM  
Windows 8 is digital AIDS.
 
2012-07-26 01:26:41 PM  

styckx: Newell has been known in the past to talk a lot of stupid.. For as smart as he is he also likes to stomp his feet over stupid shiat.


He's also a flip-flopper. He pissed all over the PS3, only to turn around and fellate it a couple of years later.
 
2012-07-26 01:27:15 PM  

MilesTeg: Shut up and give me Half Life 2, Episode 3.


This.
 
2012-07-26 01:29:09 PM  
thank you based gaben
 
2012-07-26 01:30:19 PM  
FTFA: The Windows Store could dent the success of Valve's own online market, Steam, through which players buy games.

So this is the real reason he's saying that. He feels Windows is going to eat his pie and drink his milkshake. Nothing to see here.
 
2012-07-26 01:31:16 PM  

Endive Wombat: I like the connect because I can yell at the TV (pause, play, etc.)


So much this. Kinect's motion controls are fun if you are into that kind of game (Dance Central 2, the ladies like to get down), but the voice controls rock. I live in a 1 bedroom, so pretty much anywhere besides my bedroom my xbox picks up my voice. It just takes a simple, even toned "Xbox, Next Episode" (Yelling won't work as well as most people think).

I hope they refine the microphone a little besides the voice controls because using it for anything besides that , ie chatting, makes it sound like you are trying to make a phonecall in a tunnel riding in the back of a pickup truck.
 
2012-07-26 01:34:06 PM  

luidprand: ThatGuyGreg: vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.

And yet, that's A-OK for iPads. Got it.

I'd say it's fine for Windows Tablets, too. However, I don't have to use the app store for anything but Apple software on my Mac. I think Newell's complaint is a valid one - MS is limiting access to full-scale computers from third parties, made by third parties. This is different than limiting content on their own hardware, and is one of the things that shows how much of a mistake building one OS for all types of devices is.

Of course, MS has every right to do it, but I think it will hurt them in the long run.


Maybe by "some versions of Windows 8" he meant Windows RT, which is the OS for ARM based tablets/phones, which are analogous to iPad/iPhone.
 
2012-07-26 01:37:30 PM  

styckx: And what are those "some" versions? The version that runs on Kiosks in the mall? Power PC version? Newell has been known in the past to talk a lot of stupid.. For as smart as he is he also likes to stomp his feet over stupid shiat.


Any of the ARM versions of Windows 8. Those will be locked down so that they can only run apps from the Windows store.
 
2012-07-26 01:37:49 PM  

RexTalionis: I'm not sure how Steam is going to get all the developers to port their games to run on Linux - perhaps Steam for Linux has something integrated that's like Cedega/Wine? Sort of like how GOG.com runs the really old stuff off of a modified DOSbox?


They won't. Just like the Mac, Valve offers its own games (source engine based) for Mac/PC, each developer is on its own to offer a Mac port if it wants, but many don't. All the source engine games will eventually be on Linux, and developers will be encouraged but not forced to offer a Linux port.
 
2012-07-26 01:39:57 PM  
He said the same thing about the PS3 (going as far as saying Sony should recall the machine and start over) until Valve made a sweet heart deal with Sony, then suddenly the PS3 was the best thing since sliced bread.
 
kab
2012-07-26 01:41:18 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: And yet, that's A-OK for iPads. Got it.


It's actually not fine for any device.
 
2012-07-26 01:41:25 PM  

luidprand: ThatGuyGreg: vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.

And yet, that's A-OK for iPads. Got it.

I'd say it's fine for Windows Tablets, too. However, I don't have to use the app store for anything but Apple software on my Mac. I think Newell's complaint is a valid one - MS is limiting access to full-scale computers from third parties, made by third parties. This is different than limiting content on their own hardware, and is one of the things that shows how much of a mistake building one OS for all types of devices is.

Of course, MS has every right to do it, but I think it will hurt them in the long run.


It really isn't. ARM based tablet laptop crossover models aren't full scale computers. The walled and curated garden model works well in that space based on how those are currently used. By the way, what would stop steam from making a virtual machine to deliver their games to all the tegra3s running windows 8 RT? Virtiual machine is your app, it connects to your steam store, viola. Given the way Microsoft works with vendors using embeded XP, I don't think Microsoft would at all be opposed to helping them do that. Considering how Microsoft likes to sell windows, it seems like they would point to something like that as a major selling point.

For myself, I would kinda like the high end Windows 8 Surface folio/tablets. In that space, I would probably be happy enough with RT, but I would really like the digitizer.
 
2012-07-26 01:48:28 PM  
Dear Microsoft;

Thank you for Windows 8!

Sincerly;

The OS X Lion Team
 
2012-07-26 01:48:43 PM  
In all fairness, Gabe has crippling fear of any product with a version number greater than 2. I mean 8? That's like a normal 3 making out with a backwards 3; with that many 3's it's no wonder Valve's nervous.
 
2012-07-26 01:49:08 PM  

Pick: Dear Microsoft;

Thank you for Windows 8!

Sincerly;

The OS X Lion Team


That bunch of Laurel-sitting ninnies?
 
2012-07-26 01:49:16 PM  
Speaking of Surface, a Swedish website supposedly leaked cost...$1,000 for ARM, $2,000 for x86.
 
2012-07-26 01:49:35 PM  
AAAAAAArrrrrrrgh! Oh, wait, nobody can hear me you say?
 
2012-07-26 01:52:29 PM  

bdub77: Aar1012: bdub77: (turning the XBox software into a Nintendo clone is borderline retarded when you consider that most of your games are not geared to children and old people like the Nintendo was).

I don't fully agree with this. Yes, the kinect is obviously a gimmick but what has happened with the Xbox since the original concept is a good idea. The Xbox, as I recall, was originally slated as the hardcore gamers' system. They can keep the demographic with good games but they have also done well by investing as a media center. I can play a game one minute and then switch to Netflix a second later. If I want to watch something from my windows media center then I can stream it there. I can pull up YouTube, watch ESPN, listen to Music, etc. It's more user friendly then the PS3 and has more options than the Wii. It also helps that they can change the Xbox OS to serve what they want to focus on than they could in systems past. The Xbox 360 of 2006 isn't the Xbox 360 of 2012.

/I don't have cable and don't game like I used too
//But I have my Xbox on almost daily to keep myself entertained.
///Too bad ESPN3 doesn't work with my ISP

I'm more referring to their avatar creation screens and blantant ripoff of what Nintendo was doing with their intro screens. Their partnering w/Netfix and other media streams - well frankly just about any media center device, including bluray hardware, does that. Microsoft hasn't exactly been innovating in that space.


Innovative of not it's been a very pleasant suprise to me that the box that I spent less than $200 to let my kid play videogames, now, without charging me a dime extra, lets me watch my cable TV, Netflix, Hulu, HBOgo (and half a dozen free media streaming services) all in 1080p HD, to say nothing of Last FM and other cool features
 
2012-07-26 01:55:07 PM  

Tickle Mittens: I'd say it's fine for Windows Tablets, too. However, I don't have to use the app store for anything but Apple software on my Mac. I think Newell's complaint is a valid one - MS is limiting access to full-scale computers from third parties, made by third parties. This is different than limiting content on their own hardware, and is one of the things that shows how much of a mistake building one OS for all types of devices is.

Of course, MS has every right to do it, but I think it will hurt them in the long run.

It really isn't. ARM based tablet laptop crossover models aren't full scale computers.


You are as wrong about that idea. Most major OEMs have full scale ARM models planned. The required feature set for Windows 8 eliminates a lot of low-end craputers.

The great sin of ARM Windows 8 is that Microsoft's half-assed Metro porting requires a full desktop mode that you cannot use.
 
2012-07-26 01:58:07 PM  
I hate Windows 8, but this guy has zero credability left. He basically said the same thing about the PS3 and now look, Steam is available for the PS3 and Valve loves that platform now.
 
2012-07-26 01:58:41 PM  

vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.


HUH? Is that for real? MS would not allow something like Steam on Windows 8? Is that just speculation or has MS said something to that effect?
 
2012-07-26 01:59:33 PM  

Pick: Dear Microsoft;

Thank you for Windows 8!

Sincerly;
The OS X Lion Team


It's funny people say this, considering the fact that even today, there are more users of Windows Vista in the world than OSX . Link

Microsoft drops a steaming turd of an OS, and yet 5 years later (along with several revisions of OSX), Apple still hasn't made hardly any headway against MS. I have a feeling that on the OS front, they aren't too worried.
 
2012-07-26 02:00:29 PM  
I wonder, would an antitrust lawsuit on the app store be able to hold any water? The closed nature of the environment seems kind of anti-competitive to me. But then again, some of the subtleties are beyond my understanding, as I don't even have a GED in law
 
2012-07-26 02:01:59 PM  
Every other OS...
 
2012-07-26 02:06:10 PM  

physt: vpb: ThatGuyGreg: He's talking about the Windows App Store presenting a bit of competition for Steam in the PC space, no more, no less.

No, he's talking about non MS App stores like Steam not being allowed on some versions of Win8.

HUH? Is that for real? MS would not allow something like Steam on Windows 8? Is that just speculation or has MS said something to that effect?


On the tablet version only. The PC version will allow whatever, like always.
 
2012-07-26 02:06:57 PM  

Pick: Dear Microsoft;

Thank you for Windows 8!

Sincerly;

The OS X Lion Team


Anyone who does not want to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8 will just keep Windows 7 until Windows 9 (or whatever they want to call it) is released. People aren't going to spend thousands of dollars changing operating systems when they could spend nothing and wait it out.
 
2012-07-26 02:08:48 PM  

mamoru: RexTalionis: I'm not sure how Steam is going to get all the developers to port their games to run on Linux - perhaps Steam for Linux has something integrated that's like Cedega/Wine? Sort of like how GOG.com runs the really old stuff off of a modified DOSbox?

There have been some developers wrapping their games in Cider or Wine so they can run on MacOS X, so they are SteamPlay games. I have both The Witcher and Serious Sam 3 on OS X like this, though I haven't actually played the Mac versions yet, so I can't speak for how they perform.

Would it be so hard to do similar to run on Linux? I mean Wine was originally for running Windows apps under Linux, wasn't it? Also several of the indie developers make Linux versions of their games (I see them often in the Humble Bundles). So, it probably wouldn't be too hard to build a market there at least as large as the Mac market on Steam. Especially if they port all of the Source games, like they seem to be planning to.

It'll be a start, at least.


Several Windows programs have been released within a wine wrapper for Linux, most notably Google Picasa. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to wrap games that are rated 'platinum' in the AppDB.

I'm really hoping Steam for Linux integrates wine somehow for titles I've already got running (25 and counting on a single wineprefix). It would suck to require two separate installs of Steam.
 
2012-07-26 02:08:58 PM  
Windows 8? sigh. I should probably get off XP sometime soon and migrate to 7.
 
2012-07-26 02:12:30 PM  
Microsoft will win this just like AOL won the internet.
 
2012-07-26 02:16:42 PM  

JammerJim: Windows 8? sigh. I should probably get off XP sometime soon and migrate to 7.


7 is solid stuff, i was one of the XP holdouts too until i got a second to play around with it. Turn off the account security management bullshiat (it actually stays off in 7) and it runs like a dream.

I plan on being a Win7 holdout until the next big thing comes along. Much like Star Trek movies, every other seems to be made of win for M$ OSes, while the others just leave me shaking my head.
 
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